[01:54] <jimbohertz> hi
[01:54] <jimbohertz> i still received no answer
[01:54] <jimbohertz> about
[01:54] <jimbohertz> the website...
[01:54] <jimbohertz> and
[01:54] <jimbohertz> um...
[01:55] <holstein> jimbohertz: ?
[01:55] <holstein> jimbohertz: what do you need to know, friend? 
[01:55] <jimbohertz> i asked zequence
[01:56] <holstein> jimbohertz: ok.. he's in the channel..
[01:56] <jimbohertz> information on what goes on here and
[01:56] <holstein> jimbohertz: what do you need to kno?
[01:56] <jimbohertz> well i dont know man i just asked if i could like redesign the website/work on it
[01:56] <jimbohertz> but i got ignored
[01:56] <jimbohertz> over and over
[01:56] <holstein> jimbohertz: sure.. we dont need that
[01:56] <jimbohertz> so should i just give up ?
[01:56] <jimbohertz> ah ok
[01:56] <holstein> jimbohertz: we dont need it "Redesigned"
[01:56] <holstein> but, we need help
[01:56] <jimbohertz> alright
[01:56] <jimbohertz> hlep for testing isos
[01:56] <jimbohertz> ha
[01:57] <jimbohertz> yeah sure
[01:57] <holstein> jimbohertz: sure. thats actually quite helpful
[01:57] <jimbohertz> k
[01:57] <jimbohertz> lets sing
[01:57] <jimbohertz> holstein: sing
[01:57] <holstein> and documentation. and there were some test cases on the mailing list about kernels. did you do that? i havent had a chance
[01:57] <holstein> and about work flows...
[01:58] <jimbohertz> yeah...
[01:58] <jimbohertz> i just dont see how i can help
[01:58] <jimbohertz> not that I have nothing to give
[01:58] <jimbohertz> and
[01:58] <holstein> jimbohertz: ?
[01:58] <holstein> jimbohertz: did you test the kernel?
[01:58] <jimbohertz> but i dont know
[01:58] <jimbohertz> what kernel?
[01:58] <holstein> jimbohertz: you want to help with the newsletter?
[01:58] <jimbohertz> what
[01:59] <holstein> that team *always* needs help
[01:59] <jimbohertz> i dont follow
[02:00] <holstein> jimbohertz: have you tested the kernel?
[02:00] <holstein> if not.. you can do that
[02:00] <jimbohertz> what kernel
[02:01] <jimbohertz> beMORESPECIFIC
[02:01] <holstein> if you are still saying "i dont know how to help" then, would you like information on the ubuntu newsletter team?
[02:01] <holstein> jimbohertz: the realtime kernel that we discussed, here. in person.. via PPA.. from the mailing list
[02:01] <jimbohertz> what
[02:01] <jimbohertz> i can test it ?
[02:01] <jimbohertz> wait
[02:01] <jimbohertz> we did ?
[02:01] <holstein> there were other test cases in the mailling list as well.. did you do any of them?
[02:02] <jimbohertz> you said it was useless !
[02:02] <holstein> jimbohertz: are you on the mailling list?
[02:02] <jimbohertz> yes i am
[02:02] <holstein> jimbohertz: i never said "useless".. i implied it was likely not that necessary for the future, and that im not personally interested in it
[02:02] <holstein> jimbohertz: im literally only suggesting things for testing purposes
[02:03] <holstein> jimbohertz: how about the newsletter? thats a great team that needs help
[02:04] <jimbohertz> i just find the process really awkward
[02:05] <holstein> jimbohertz: what process?
[02:05] <jimbohertz> working with the newsletter
[02:05] <holstein> its just a small team, friend
[02:05] <holstein> jimbohertz: so, you are not interested in helping? with the newsletter?
[02:06] <jimbohertz> well
[02:06] <jimbohertz> its just not
[02:06] <holstein> jimbohertz: not what?
[02:06] <jimbohertz> it doesnt feel right
[02:06] <jimbohertz> i dont even know how the newsletter work and
[02:06] <jimbohertz> eh..
[02:07] <holstein> jimbohertz: its a place to help. it works like this.. you read a story, and write a summary.. and it gets published..
[02:11] <jimbohertz> meh
[02:11] <jimbohertz> feels old
[02:13] <holstein> jimbohertz: ?
[02:13] <holstein> jimbohertz: just let me know if you want to contribute,. the site needs not be redesigned
[05:55] <OvenWerks> holstein: pressing and persistant?
[05:55] <holstein> OvenWerks: just making friends
[05:55] <holstein> :)
[05:55] <OvenWerks> :)
[05:56] <OvenWerks> It sounds like gime the kar keys..... NOW!
[05:57] <holstein> right?!
[05:58] <holstein> i thought i was going to get the newletter team a helper, though.. 
[07:37] <zequence> [6~[6~[6~[6~joji	
[07:42] <xequence> holstein: That jimbo guy just needs to get on the mail list and present himself. I'm usually asleep in the middle of night (which was the case when Jimbo was on just before)
[07:42] <xequence> Can't answer someone who's not logged in either
[07:45] <xequence> The new CD should be building within one or two weeks
[15:07] <holstein> xequence: im not sure what the story is there.. seems like, if we dont want the website redesigned, he's not interested in helping
[15:07] <xequence> holstein: :)
[15:12] <xequence> A lot of people have passed by and have ideas. We also have an art lead, who has some ideas on that. But, if someone wants to do anything, they're always free to come with suggestions, examples of work, etc.
[15:12] <elfy> people are awesome at passing by with ideas
[15:13] <holstein> we just revamped the site not too long ago
[15:13]  * elfy just meant generally by the way
[15:35] <elfy> xequence: do you have any ideas about what to do with this testcase stuff?
[15:36] <elfy> s/do you have any ideas about what you want to do with this testcase stuff?
[15:38] <holstein> elfy: what are your thoughts?
[15:39] <elfy> my thoughts are that no-one appears to be interested in helping
[15:39] <elfy> I'm just here to try and corral it :)
[15:39] <elfy> that's not strictly true - one person has done one
[15:39] <holstein> elfy: i was thinking, back when the cases got added, it may be a little "overkill" for the team
[15:40] <elfy> holstein: yea - I'm having the same conversation with stgraber re Edubuntu
[15:40] <holstein> elfy:  i mean, no doubt we should be doing some JACK and audio production specific testing, but, does it need to be an official test case?
[15:40] <elfy> I didn't have anything to do with adding the testcases I add :)
[15:40] <elfy> holstein: depends how studio wants to do it I guess
[15:40] <holstein> elfy: i was thinking, just do the bare minimum.. like basically whatever xubuntu has, and we can deal with other specific cases on our own
[15:41] <elfy> it is a *small* team  - even smaller than the xubuntu one 
[15:41] <holstein> yup
[15:41] <holstein> but, i think if the cases were the same, the xubuntu team would help out, and typically does... and has been *quite* helpful
[15:41] <elfy> speaking completely frankly I think that the best thing to do would be 
[15:42] <elfy> invalid all the bugs
[15:42] <holstein> elfy: personally, when i see the test case list, i find it daunting..
[15:42] <elfy> then pick them one by one
[15:42] <elfy> holstein: exactly
[15:42] <elfy> I look at it and don't even know what the things are lol
[15:42] <holstein> elfy: well, you have my vote.. not sure who added the cases.. it would be nice to get an OK from that person.. was it zequence ?
[15:43] <holstein> elfy: *not* having them officially listed there doesnt mean we cant test them..
[15:43] <elfy> I'd guess that what would be nice would be to try and get some stuff ready for the next LTS - little by little
[15:43] <elfy> I'm happy to hang about helping with it 
[15:43] <holstein> elfy: and cheers for helping ! :)
[15:44] <elfy> holstein: of course not, it just means you can't do 'official' testing and 'tracking' 
[15:44] <holstein> and, i suppose the tracking may be a deal breaker.. but, i think now, its just overkill, and, we can track them as bugs... 
[15:44] <elfy> holstein: I can 'manage' things to the best of my ability and do this manual stuff
[15:45] <elfy> so I do it where I can for who wants it :)
[15:45] <elfy> holstein: no it wasn't anyone from any team who added all the bugs - chilcuil did it for *everyone* at some point
[15:46] <elfy> I look at it as a testcase admin working with manual stuff and see ~150 bugs just sitting there :)
[15:46] <holstein> lol
[15:46] <holstein> yeah, we should address that..
[15:47] <elfy> not just studio obviously - edubuntu aren't too bothered either - they've got a smaller team than studio :)
[15:48] <elfy> I could write simple tests - but if no-one is actually going to run them - it's pointless
[15:48] <holstein> yeah.. its got to be able to be managed
[15:48] <elfy> and what *your* stuff needs is NOT simple tests :)
[15:49] <holstein> right.. and we shoud be testing.. we have a different custom kernel and all that.. and JACK is not trivial
[15:49] <holstein> i dont think we should expect that of a casual iso tester, though
[15:49] <elfy> indeed
[15:49] <holstein> the iso test should be more that.. iso test.. not help with debugging
[15:50] <elfy> I did at least make you some image tests that included your menu
[15:50] <elfy> not sure if they're actually being used tbh
[15:51] <elfy> I've been trying not to get too disheartened with the test response for our stuff mostly - everyone *buntu wide is a bit pheeeeeeew atm :)
[15:52] <elfy> I wonder if studio would actually be better served with say
[15:53] <elfy> an audio image test and a general audio testcase "Use what you use- report bugs"
[15:53] <elfy> a photo one - the same - just really quite basic - but at least you'll get some feedback
[15:54] <elfy> you could run audio apps for ~3 months - start a test result - leave it as pending and just add bugs
[15:54] <holstein> yeah.. even listed on a wiki, less formal.. something anyone can edit
[15:54] <elfy> just an idea
[15:54] <holstein> elfy: i like it
[15:54] <elfy> holstein: yep - which is why I did that wiki for studio
[15:55] <elfy> as long as there are some *rules* on it - if you do a testcase - don't waste peoples time - let them know for instance
[15:55] <holstein> i get overwhellmed on wikis.. and TBH, i wanted to just claim a "bankruptcy" or sorts a while back (probably 12.10) and just delete some that are old... 
[15:56] <holstein> but, the wiki system is great.. its strengths are its weaknesses, so to speak
[15:56] <elfy> yea
[15:57] <elfy> I think what I'll do is write a mail to the list re all this - the standard system isn't going to work for a while 
[15:57] <elfy> put my thoughts down and let you all mull it over
[15:57] <holstein> elfy: i like it.. its a great idea to thin that out, for sure
[15:58] <holstein> elfy: you'll send to studio devel?
[15:58] <elfy> I'm talking to balloons later re this hackfest coming up - I'll try and have a chat with him about studio too 
[15:58] <elfy> holstein: yep
[15:59] <holstein> occasionally i try and get "Fact time" with jono RE: studio
[15:59] <holstein> i would like for him to just do *anything* with the technology related to his music.. and post about it
[15:59] <elfy> it could be if we make then a kind of meta-testcase we could have a tracker set up for studio in a month or so 
[16:00] <elfy> which would be good for all concerned
[16:00] <holstein> elfy: agreed.. simpler, and cleaner
[16:00] <elfy> hard to pin jono down with anything other than 6"nails and a big hammer at the moment I'd guess :p
[16:01] <holstein> i would love to have a larger overall "goals" kind of talk about studio
[16:01] <holstein> see if we can get a clear idea, that is attainable for the next LTS
[16:01] <holstein> for now til the next LTS..
[16:01] <elfy> I'd try and make myself available for something like that from *my* pov
[16:01] <holstein> see if we cant get some interest going, and momentum, or, quite frankly, just let it go
[16:02] <elfy> as I said - I'm happy to hang about and do what I can
[16:02] <holstein> i dont think its constructive to just have it flailing along and half meeting needs..
[16:02] <elfy> possibly not - but I don't actually use studio so can't comment on that
[16:02] <holstein> i also dont think it would be out of the scope of the current team size to *really* have a nice product
[16:02] <holstein> the current is quite nice..
[16:03] <elfy> I used to play about with a few software synths a few years back - but that's all gone now
[16:03] <elfy> well edubuntu ONLY do LTS - so it's not new
[16:03] <elfy> pretty sure myth do similar
[16:04] <elfy> more emphasis on SRU's and backporting perhaps - I don't know for sure
[16:05] <elfy> maybe that would work for studio - I don't know 
[16:05] <holstein> elfy: i would be interested in entertaining that..
[16:06] <holstein> elfy: the older team lead came in and had, actualy, a great suggestion about not having an official iso release. but, just maintaining the meta packages
[16:06] <elfy> sometimes it takes someone outside looking in to point out the obvious - though having not been about I don't know if you've discussed that beforehand 
[16:06] <holstein> problem for me was, that was like 2 weeks before 12.04 was to release.. and we had been hustling to get it out, so i was against canning all that work at that time.. then, he went MIA again
[16:07] <elfy> mmm
[16:07] <elfy> trouble with doing it in spare time I guess
[16:07] <holstein> there is also talk of having more of a generic installer that integrates with any desktop, which i actually think is a great idea as well, but maybe too ambitious for us
[16:07] <elfy> tbh from where I stand 
[16:08] <elfy> I see you, cub, OvenWerks and zequence talking - no-one else 
[16:08] <holstein> and who is really using studio? who is the target audience? do they need ultimate choice like that? or whatever..
[16:08] <holstein> elfy: its a small team..
[16:08] <elfy> if that is the case then perhaps not doing a 6 month release would do everyone a world of good
[16:08] <holstein> im not a code contributor, so i get in over my head quickly..
[16:08] <elfy> holstein: I am exactly the same :)
[16:09] <elfy> all voodoo to me ... 
[16:09] <holstein> i cant do any of the hands on heavy lifting..
[16:09] <elfy> yep - understoof
[16:09] <elfy> d
[16:09] <elfy> that's why I do what I do for xubuntu - I want to help - and this way I can :)
[16:10] <holstein> elfy: :)
[16:10] <elfy> which is why I offered my help to you :)
[16:10] <holstein> and, i feel like us sticking with a solid xfce release allows for the team to be helped more
[16:10] <holstein> it doesnt hurt the xubuntu team...
[16:11] <elfy> I'll have a chat later with balloons  re testcases then I'll make some suggestions on the list 
[16:11] <holstein> yup.. and i like just getting some text in the channel here about the future..
[16:11] <elfy> yea - having an extra team using xfce helps us too 
[16:11] <holstein> momentum!
[16:11] <elfy> yea - always good that :)
[16:11] <elfy> or mostly :p
[17:37] <xequence> elfy: We are short of people for sure. I will take some time to write one or two, and that way get a feeling for what is required. In the end, I believe only a few things are really critical to test.
[17:37] <xequence> ..so, we should be alright. If we can get more people involved the next couple of years, that would be good too.
[17:38] <xequence> I think it'll be easier for me to fish for people, when I'm more clear on exactly what we need to have done.
[17:38] <holstein> xequence: do you agree that there is no need to have those test cases up at iso testing?
[17:39] <holstein> can we do more of a simple iso test that would mirror xubuntu?
[17:39] <xequence> holstein: We only need to do the application testing once, after Debian freeze
[17:39] <xequence> ..at any time, more or less
[17:40] <xequence> or, when anything was updated for those applications. A dependency..
[17:40] <holstein> sure, but do you agree that application testing can be done elsewhere? other than iso testing?
[17:40] <xequence> Yes
[17:41] <holstein> cool.. i think that was the idea.. just thinning out the iso tests..
[17:41] <xequence> As quickly we can, after Beta 1 release (Debian import freeze), so we have time to do something about bugs before Beta 2
[21:43] <cub> Hi ttoine, I made the same footer for the web site as on the spreashirt site. It's not live on the site yet though
[21:45] <cub> mockup site at http://bandforum.info/ubuntustudio/