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pepeehi. I'm copy/pasting my question:04:54
pepeein debian/ubuntu, if some package or group of packages is being built/uploaded, the inconsistencies can cause apt to report problems with dependencies. well, why isn't there a "temporary repo" or some kind of config file to indicates that packages are still being updated, so that those inconsistencies are minimized or totally avoided? even more... why don't ubuntu/debian upload packages at night? (I know night in the west means day in the east...04:54
pepeewell, have some sort of control that uses timezone or something data)04:54
pepeenot sure if this is the right channel, though04:55
ScottKMost people get packages through mirrors so there's no way to control exactly when things get updated.05:00
pepeeand that's another thing, mirrors could be synchronized, and packages copied through bittorrent!05:03
pepeeI wonder if that would work05:04
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RAOFpepee: We actually do that now? Everything goes to foo-proposed, and when it's installable it gets migrated to foo. Likewise, Debian testing.05:16
pepeeahh, I didn't know. but I guess that's why I haven't had a broken update/upgrade lately :P05:17
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pepeeand by "lately" I mean, I can't even remember...05:18
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pittiGood mo-hoorning!06:17
dholbachgood morning07:02
Noskcajkenvandine, Could you please fix bug 1194211 some time soon? It's the only reverse-depend of valc-0.18 now07:14
ubottubug 1194211 in libfriends (Ubuntu) "Build-depend on valac instead of valac-0.18" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119421107:14
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Mirvmight I get a packaging changes ack from a core-dev for unity8-desktop-session changes? https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-002-2-publish/28/artifact/packaging_changes_unity8-desktop-session_1.0.11+14.10.20140709-0ubuntu1.diff11:59
MirvI digged about that added Conflicts, the commit message says "added Conflicts with ubuntu-desktop-mir because that package installs lightdm configs that cause Unity 8 to fail to start"12:00
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flexiondotorgcjwatson, I've got a tiny merge proposal for ubiquity I'd like to submit. Having never gone through the process before can you check that I am about to proceed in the correct way?12:05
cjwatsonflexiondotorg: maybe :)12:06
cjwatsonMirv: acked12:06
cjwatsonMirv: (and publishing)12:06
Mirvcjwatson: thanks12:06
flexiondotorgcjwatson, here is the diff - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubiquity/ubiquity-marco/revision/6195?start_revid=619512:07
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flexiondotorgShould I just go ahead a create a merge proposal and describe why this is required in that proposal. I would you prefer I raise a bug first?12:07
Eisbrecher_xnoxflexiondotorg: looks ok. Is it "marco" similar to metacity?12:08
flexiondotorgmarco was forked from metacity.12:08
Eisbrecher_xnoxflexiondotorg: in that case ubiquity-dm will need modifications to use marco, if present. Otherwise you would need to ship both metacity and marco.12:08
flexiondotorgIt is compatible with metacity themes/settings etc.12:08
cjwatsonflexiondotorg: should be fine for a merge proposal, but please do raise a bug so that we have tracking12:08
Eisbrecher_xnoxflexiondotorg: bzr grep metacity12:08
cjwatsonand yeah, what Eisbrecher_xnox said12:08
flexiondotorgEisbrecher_xnox, Thanks. Taking a look now.12:10
Eisbrecher_xnoxflexiondotorg: it should be a simple copy&paste of the metacity cases but "marco" and appropriate key settings. Are you using gnome-settings-daemon / gconf? if that's forked/renamed as well, further adjustments will be needed to accomodate those as well.12:10
flexiondotorgEisbrecher_xnox, some background for you.12:11
flexiondotorgI'm working on Ubuntu MATE Remix.12:11
flexiondotorgMATE has been fully migrated to dconf/gsettings.12:11
Eisbrecher_xnoxflexiondotorg: if marco is better than metacity, it might make sense to switch unity7 and openjdk to use that instead.12:13
Eisbrecher_xnoxand finally drop metacity from the archive, cause, as far as I can see, it's not developed.12:13
* Eisbrecher_xnox checks12:13
flexiondotorgWell, my opinion would be biased 😉12:14
flexiondotorgBut yes. Marco is an evolution of metacity.12:14
Eisbrecher_xnoxwait there is fresh release of metacity....12:15
Eisbrecher_xnoxLaney: *blink* there was metacity release =) are we gonna take it12:18
flexiondotorgEisbrecher_xnox, does ubiquity require a compositor? I see that ubiquity-dm set org.gnome.metacity compositing-manager to true. I can do the same for marco, but it is actually required?12:20
Laneyno idea!12:20
Eisbrecher_xnoxflexiondotorg: not required, but highly desired. please set it.12:21
Eisbrecher_xnoxLaney: i'll try it out. release notes look harmless-ish https://mail.gnome.org/archives/ftp-release-list/2014-June/msg00019.html12:21
LaneyAlberts is Ubuntu-ish AFAIK, he might have some plans there12:22
flexiondotorgEisbrecher_xnox, most of what is new in metacity 3.12 is already implemented in marco.12:24
flexiondotorgThey are pretty much equivalent now.12:24
Eisbrecher_xnoxLaney: hm. looking at upstream release and our metacity packaging we have practically everything applied as patches by now.12:24
Eisbrecher_xnoxflexiondotorg: yeah, it still feels weird to me that all components were forked and renamed, instead of keeping existing names and/or continue maintaining them.12:25
flexiondotorgEisbrecher_xnox, The rename was required so that MATE and GNOME (applications and libraries) could be installed side by side.12:26
flexiondotorgThat was done years ago by the original MATE developer.12:26
flexiondotorgThe fork was massive, and in many cases, unnecessary.12:26
flexiondotorgThe MATE Team (i'm a dev) have to aligning with GNOME libraries and in almost all case use the GNOME libraries now.12:27
flexiondotorgBut, the application rename is still required so that user can have GNOME3 and MATE installed on the same system or just pick and mix the applications.12:28
flexiondotorgcjwatson, Eisbrecher_xnox Thanks for your help - I trust this is OK? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubiquity/ubiquity-marco/+merge/22611412:48
kenvandineNoskcaj, will do13:11
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hallyndesrt: hey - so logind when sending the StartTransientUnit sends a "sd_bus_message_append(m, "a(sa(sv))", 0)", without which the sending fails bc of mismatched params.14:32
hallyndesrt: that fix (just adding that line) was added after drastic change in how the dbus msgs were formed, and i'm trying to figure out how to build it manually with things like opencontainer14:33
hallyndesrt: my quesiton is, what the heck is the point of that?  is it not supposed to be an array containing a string and another array, which in turn contains sv?  but it's not sending any actual values.14:33
hallynanyway i'll go ahead and try just adding them as null values and assume i should ignore them in systemd14:34
hallynoh, wait, i'm going about it wrong14:34
desrtdbus is strongly typed14:34
desrteven if you have an empty array you need to give an empty array of the correct type14:34
hallynsince systemd 208 is waht is in experimental, and it is NOT sending those, i should just not require them in systemd-shim14:34
hallyndesrt: ah, gotcha - thanks.  so it's opening the container but not adding any values, sending an empty array14:35
desrtyes.  it needs to open the container with the specific type to ensure the array has the correct type14:35
hallyndesrt: sorry for the noise, thanks :)14:35
desrtin fact, if it didn't do that, it wouldn't even be able to construct the array14:35
desrtsince "empty array" doesn't exist without more information14:35
desrtmust be "empty array of ...."14:35
desrtthis is something that causes a lot of pain :)14:35
desrtconsider binding to languages like python, for example.....14:36
* hallyn grasps his side - "tell me about it"14:36
desrtpretty easy to guess what is the appropriate type for [1,2,3] or ['a', 'b', 'c']... but you see [] and it's like .... hmm... uhh...14:36
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desrt(even [1,2,3] is a bit hard since those might be _unsigned_ ints, which is again a different type)14:37
hallyndesrt: but the "correct" set of paramaters, or the expected set - that comes from the .xml file in the server end?14:37
desrtthose files are also typically installed in /usr/share/dbus-1/interfaces, fyi14:37
desrtand you might find the 'gdbus introspect' command to be helpful14:38
desrtthere is also a GUI tool called d-feet which is.... not excellent... but certainly very useful14:38
hallynoh yeah i used that a few years ago.  all right, let's see if i can get another half step further this way :)  thx14:39
desrtkeep poking as you need help... no sense in you spinning your wheels for an hour if i can answer more questions :)14:40
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hallynstgraber: slangasek: i'm not gonna like the answer, but i'll ask anyway - does systemd-shim need to also support non-cgmanager cgroup setup?15:08
hallynheh, cgamanger isn't packaged for debian yet, is it, bc it relies on upstart15:08
stgraberhallyn: I'd be fine with just requiring cgmanager, cgmanager is in Debian, not sure about how usable it is though...15:09
hallynif i write sysvinit scripts and package for debian can i skip the cgfs bit?15:09
hallynall right i think i may be at the point where i can do something useful.15:10
stgraberbut I think it'd be entirely fine to have systemd-shim work in Ubuntu with cgmanager, then just tell Debian to get cgmanager in working shape (if it's not)15:10
slangasekhallyn: I don't understand the question - are you asking whether systemd-shim needs to run on... systemd?15:10
hallynslangasek: no, sysvinit15:10
slangasekno man, who cares about sysvinit :)15:11
stgraberslangasek: no, he's asking if systemd-shim should be able to work without cgmanager by doing direct fs callss15:11
hallynsmoser: digitalocean is very nice in some ways, but their archive mirrors/proxies seem to really mess things up sometimes.  pull-lp-source frequently does the wrong thing there.15:12
* hallyn uses pull-debian-source tow ork around that :)15:12
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slangasekhallyn: so in what sense does cgmanager rely on upstart, though?  Because actually, we do need systemd-shim to work in Debian on upgrade from wheezy to jessie15:21
slangasekbut I would expect that to be systemd-shim + cgmanager + sysvinit, not systemd-shim + internal cgroup allocation + sysvinit15:21
hallynslangasek: cgmanager doesn't depend on it, it's just that we only ever worked out the cgmanager-cgproxy interactions for upstart jobs15:28
hallynreally, the sysv should be easier, as we'll just do one script to run either/both, probably15:28
stgraberhallyn: sysvinit should be trivial, just use two pid files with a single init script launching both of them in the right conditions15:28
stgraberhallyn: systemd unit may be trickier but we don't have to care about that just yet15:28
hallynstgraber: yup15:29
hallynstgraber: all right well i guess i may have to talk to you about how to do the sysv after i get this bit done.  i'm just creating a clean git tree so i can properly track my changes now that i'm making progress15:29
stgraberhallyn: might also be worth checking if dba didn't make an init script already (and if he did, whether it's correct and covers all the crazy cases we do with upstart)15:31
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hallynstgraber: rmadison -u debian cgmanager doesnt' show any results15:36
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stgraberhallyn: looks like it's still in new15:46
stgraberhallyn: no init script listed there so I guess he didn't write one15:47
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hjdLooks like a package rebuild would fix bug 1247219. How would one request that, create a merge proposal where only the changelog has been edited?16:31
ubottubug 1247219 in xaralx (Ubuntu) "XaraLX does not start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124721916:31
dobeyhjd: yes16:56
hjddobey: Ok, great :) Slightly busy right now, but will create one later. Thanks.17:02
mdeslaurcyphermox_: any idea why network-manager is failing the jenkins tests?17:06
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rbasakIf a package is removed from testing in Debian due to an RC bug/CVE, will we sync that removal in any way in Utopic?17:33
rbasakI presume not because I presume we're syncing from unstable?17:33
rbasakThis is https://packages.qa.debian.org/p/percona-xtrabackup.html, Debian bug 751377.17:35
ubottuDebian bug 751377 in percona-xtrabackup "percona-xtrabackup: talks home without asking" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/75137717:35
rbasakUpstream say that they will have a fix soon, but will miss the Debian autoremoval deadline.17:36
rbasakSo I'd like to hold it in Utopic to give them time to give me a patch, if instead it would get removed.17:36
hallynpitti: stgraber: do i understand correctly that user@1000.service refers to systemd user jobs, akin to upstart user jobs?18:08
hallyn(i.e. i should be able to ignore those)18:08
stgraberI'll let pitti answer that one as I've got unfortunately no clue18:09
hallynok . the three things i'm seeing are startunit for user-1000.slice, start-unit for user@1000.service, and starttransientunit for session-3.scope18:11
hallyn(not yet found a definitive way to tie a transient unit to a uid, unfortunately, though a pid is passed so i guess i can always deduce it myself)18:11
infinityrbasak: We don't follow testing autoremoval, no, as Debian may remove for reasons we don't need to (like incomplete transitions, etc).18:11
hallynoh maybe i should get that from the slice string18:13
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cyphermox_mdeslaur: no. it hasn't changed18:40
mdeslaurweird...it's blocking dbus18:40
mdeslaurand modemmanager18:40
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barrypitti: well, we might finally be making progress with the zope stack :)19:05
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cyphermox_mdeslaur: could the settings for ipv6 privacy extension have changed?19:33
mdeslaurcyphermox_: oh, maybe...I seem to recall stgraber mentioning something about that19:39
cyphermox_I know the way it displays in ip addr is different, but we already do account for that19:40
mdeslaursomeone wanted the default changed on server only...not sure what came of that discussion though19:40
cyphermox_oh, right19:40
cyphermox_yes, I remember. We do this testing on server19:40
rbasakinfinity: OK - thanks, that's useful for me in this case.19:40
cyphermox_I'll look into it19:41
stgraberI didn't do any change but it was indeed mentioned that maybe we would want to change that on servers19:46
cyphermox_nah I think it's just a timing issue19:48
cyphermox_the other test with IPv6 passed19:49
robrukenvandine, hey, I got libfriends built in silo 17, can you help me test it?19:50
kenvandineif i can remember what we can do to test :)19:51
kenvandineoh, i guess friends-app is a good test19:51
robrukenvandine, yeah, basically, just make sure it doesn't break the phone or the desktop real quick. it built ok, so that's a good start ;-)19:51
robrukenvandine, thanks19:54
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cyphermox_mdeslaur: stgraber: I'm tempted to just remove that check in the tests, privacy extensions might not be enabled in the test environment, I'd rather write a new test later to check only privacy extensions20:31
cyphermox_or you know, run stgraber's IPv6 tests, and get a clear picture of what's what20:31
* mdeslaur shrugs20:31
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rbasakcyphermox_: could you maybe have the test check the sysctl knob? Or have two tests, each with a skip if the sysctl knob is the wrong way?20:35
cyphermox_rbasak: well, that test is doing wpa and dhclient... I think it's a good idea, but I'll come up with a test for just the IPv6 settings20:36
rbasakcyphermox_: ah, OK20:36
cyphermox_right now there's testing and retesting of the same things again and again in slightly different ways, in many scripts20:37
cyphermox_we also check for the state of privacy extensions for the ipv6 tests with NM running, so it's still covered20:38
kenvandinerobru, libfriends looks good20:47
robrukenvandine, sweet20:47
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