[00:08] <diddledan> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=glass_shale
[00:09] <daftykins> gah can you screenshot? play store devices are blocked in the channel islands again
[00:09] <daftykins> i'm too tired to proxy
[00:27] <diddledan> http://imgur.com/6BLymDa
[00:38] <daftykins> ty sir
[00:38] <daftykins> cor, cheap!
[05:49] <MooDoo> morning all
[05:59] <mapps> morning
[07:43] <SuperMatt> morning
[07:43] <MooDoo> morning SuperMatt
[07:44] <SuperMatt> so I installed centos 7 on a box with centos 6 working flawlessly... my wifi didn't work
[07:44] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: upgraded?
[07:44] <SuperMatt> installed over the top
[07:44] <SuperMatt> you can't really "upgrade" yet
[07:44] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: I know that's why I asked, thought they might have released the upgrade tools lol
[07:46] <MooDoo> SuperMatt: did it work as I'm thinking of doing my server
[07:46] <SuperMatt> well, everything worked except my wifi
[07:46] <SuperMatt> and the nuveau drivers were pitifully slow
[07:47] <MooDoo> well i don't use wifi and it's a headless server so not bother about that
[07:48] <SuperMatt> well then, it should be fine
[07:48] <SuperMatt> there is an epel beta release
[07:49] <MooDoo> yeah that's what I use currently.  I might wait for the point release though, it's all sooooo new :D  If I had the hardware i'd have a new machine but I don't lol
[07:50]  * SuperMatt checks if rackers have pulled their finger out and pushed IUS 7
[07:50] <SuperMatt> nope
[07:50] <SuperMatt> bloomin rackers!
[07:50] <SuperMatt> can't trust them to do anything
[07:51] <SuperMatt> also: I'm allowed to say that
[08:41] <foobarry> which wifi card SuperMatt
[08:44] <foobarry> wifiex kickstarter has gone
[08:45] <popey> hah
[08:45] <foobarry> will i get my money back?
[08:45] <popey> wonder if they got their money
[08:46] <foobarry> my money stayed in my wallet for meaningless vapourware product
[08:46] <SuperMatt> foobarry: no idea
[08:46] <foobarry> i remember somebody tried selling ubuntu on a usb stick for money, and people bought it because it was a kickstarter
[08:46] <SuperMatt> >.<
[08:47] <SuperMatt> I wouldn't mind if canonical tried to kickstart a usb stick program for 1) getting usb sticks to normal users and 2) using the rest of the money to get it out to other countries with poor internet
[08:47] <popey> well, it was a tiny bit more than that
[08:48] <popey> and even then they messed up
[08:48] <popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/750308586/stormfly-like-a-pc-on-your-wrist
[08:52] <bashrc> usb boot drive becomes wristband
[08:53] <awilkins> "If you reformat your StormFly completely you will lose the OS installed on it and all the magic of StormFly. "
[08:53] <awilkins> In other words ; it's a standard USB drive with some software on it.
[08:54] <bashrc> woohoo
[08:54] <foobarry> We're sorry but for now the StormFly Store is closed. You can however still purchase StormFly at Amazon by clicking here
[08:54] <foobarry> amazon shows nothing
[08:54] <awilkins> I used to do this with my USB drives
[08:54] <bashrc> I like things that are wearable though.  There's a certain amount of unused realestate on my wrists
[08:54] <awilkins> Actually install the OS on a partition rather than just doing the FAT32 thing
[08:54] <foobarry> for $59 :-|
[08:55] <awilkins> The trick is that Windows in particular only wants to read the first partition on a removable USB
[08:55] <awilkins> That is marked as a thumb drive
[08:55] <awilkins> So if you have a shared FAT32 partition you put it on as the first partition and you're golden
[08:56] <foobarry> popey: did stomrfly ever become a product?
[08:56] <awilkins> It got the successful backing of $120k
[08:56] <popey> yes
[08:56] <popey> they sent them out
[08:57] <popey> but the far east company that made them, cut corners making the things very unreliable
[08:57] <popey> so they had to replace a lot of them
[08:57] <popey> i suspect this burned through their cash.
[08:58] <popey> The fact that they had a backup tool on the device which backed up to "the cloud" which is probably now shut down - is going to be annoying for anyone who did get one
[08:58] <foobarry> half baked
[08:59] <awilkins> I think that $19.99 a year for the backup service was probably part of their business plan. Along with overcharging for USB storage, of course.
[09:00] <MooDoo> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28237108 - terrible
[09:01] <awilkins> Hmm, yes, they wouldn't want to have to keep asking the NSA for that data, would they...
[09:01] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Don’t Step On A Bee Day! :-D
[09:01] <Laney> that's every day :(
[09:02] <popey> is there a "Step on a bee day"?
[09:03] <bashrc> alternatively you could just carry a USB drive in your pocket
[09:04] <awilkins> I have several in my bag
[09:04] <awilkins> I think I carry around about 128GB of removable flash
[09:04] <bashrc> emergency storage law? Can't they just get wristbands?
[09:05] <awilkins> It's just an excuse for the ISPs who are now stuck between the legal rock and the hard place - EU law says they should delete that data
[09:05] <foobarry> i wore a hole in my pocket because of usb keys
[09:06] <bashrc> so what's hte emergency between now and 2016?
[09:06] <awilkins> So they now have an excuse to dither. What big ISP wants to incur the wrath of government by not being able to service their warrants?
[09:06] <awilkins> The emergency is that with the EU having made it illegal that the ISPs might delete their historic data to be compliant with that law.
[09:06] <awilkins> We can't have that! We'd have to ask the NSA for their "metadata"!
[09:09] <awilkins> Arrgh, emacs stole my file association for shell scripts
[09:09] <foobarry> how 90s.
[09:09] <bashrc> you mean that you don't live in emacs?
[09:09] <awilkins> I only installed it to try out Org Mode
[09:09] <bashrc> I use org mode all the time
[09:10] <bashrc> and org agenda
[09:10] <awilkins> Does it grow on you? So far my opinion that it's not worth the pain of using Emacs
[09:11] <bashrc> I think org mode is about the fastest way I've seen to take notes and organise tasks
[09:11] <bashrc> it makes messing around with markdown look cumbersome
[09:11] <awilkins> I've been using FreeMind for organizing things
[09:12]  * awilkins wonders if vim-orgmode works well
[09:19]  * bashrc wonders if there is a mind mapping mode in emacs
[09:24] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:25] <bashrc> morning
[09:25] <brobostigon> morning bashrc
[09:26] <MooDoo> hay brobostigon bashrc :D
[09:26] <DJones> Morning and here's one for cat lovers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr39jPapmBU How on earth do you get so many cats to sit in one place like that
[09:30] <brobostigon> hey MooDoo :)
[09:33] <dwatkins> daftykins: I never did take up the noise issues with the downstairs guy, no - I knocked on the door once, but he didn't answer (he did stop talking loudly to the radio at that point, though)
[09:42]  * awilkins now has org-mode for Vim and has no idea what to do with it
[09:42] <awilkins> Yay!
[09:43] <dwatkins> task management? neat
[09:44] <dwatkins> I use hnb sometimes for that.
[09:44] <dwatkins> http://hnb.sourceforge.net/
[09:44] <awilkins> I usually use FreeMind / Redmine
[09:44] <awilkins> An org exporter for Redmine would probably be super awesome
[09:44] <awilkins> If I had a handle on how  to use org mode
[09:45] <dwatkins> Shouldn't be too difficult in these days of XML...
[09:45] <awilkins> Oh, no, probably not
[09:45] <dwatkins> Am I being too optimistic? ;)
[09:45] <awilkins> Already wrote a thing to upload redmine tickets in bulk in about 50 lines of Python
[09:45]  * foobarry does a redmine dance
[09:45] <awilkins> Wrote a routine that eats files as record-jar and presents them as a list of dict
[09:46] <awilkins> Then just a quick thing that maps each dict to a new issue using one of the lovely Redmine API libraries
[09:46] <awilkins> Makes for much easier management of hyuuuuge lists of user stories into tickets
[09:47] <awilkins> Especially when you end up editing them iteratively a lot before you upload them
[10:42] <MooDoo> :)
[10:57] <Laney> ooh, new toys
[10:57] <Laney> heat gun, infrared thermometer
[10:57] <MooDoo> ooo what you got?
[10:57] <MooDoo> lol
[10:58] <Laney> replacing glass on phone
[10:58] <Laney> need to melt glue holding it on
[10:58] <Laney> I did consider putting it under the grill ...
[11:02] <popey> nexus 4?
[11:03] <Laney> galaxy s3
[11:06] <Laney> that kicks out a good bit of heat :D
[11:09] <foobarry> can anyone help with grub2 not detecting centos6 install? supergrub2 cd does detect it
[11:17] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:18] <bashrc> morning
[11:20] <bigcalm> Am I missing much?
[11:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: Hey we were missing you
[11:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: no one to pick on, hurry back :D
[11:21] <bigcalm> Chin
[11:21] <bigcalm> Ha
[11:23] <bigcalm> How was the LUG?
[11:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: so the government are being a menace and pushing through a law that lasts for year as an emergency measure for our safety, making phone companies track who you ring when
[11:26] <davmor2> oh and text and email
[11:26] <foobarry> btw they will rtack your ip if you search for privacy software or use it
[11:27] <bigcalm> Just the meta data?
[11:27] <davmor2> bigcalm: well lets say yes
[11:27] <bigcalm> Not coil man
[11:27] <bigcalm> Not cool man
[11:28] <bigcalm> Damn autocorrelation on my phone
[11:28] <bigcalm> Auto correct
[11:28] <foobarry> oh no!! it's coil man!!! not coil man !!
[11:34] <foobarry> man , microsoft made me work had for that survey
[11:34] <foobarry> only got a quid for it
[11:38] <bashrc> davmor2: I recommend using Tor for most things. They may track your IP but are unlikely to know what you're reading
[11:39] <foobarry> tor de france
[11:42] <davmor2> bashrc: That kinda make you more suspicious though surely :)
[11:43] <davmor2> bashrc: they can read the stuff I look at they'll be bored before I am :)
[12:18] <diddledan> the more people that use tor the less suspicious it looks
[12:18] <MooDoo> i bet lots more will as soon as the bill is passed
[12:19] <diddledan> right now the NSA are classing anyone who goes to the tor project website as a potential adversary
[12:19] <diddledan> that needs to change!
[12:19] <MooDoo> it won't
[12:20] <diddledan> likewise visitors to the linux foundation are also classed as criminals
[12:20] <diddledan> because why would you use linux if you're not a pervert?
[12:24]  * awilkins is a Linux-using pervert and proud!
[12:24] <awilkins> (the two are orthogonal)
[12:25] <diddledan> yey for the tory government: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/no-emergency-stop-the-data-retention-stitch-up
[12:25] <foobarry> tories don't have a majority
[12:26] <foobarry> Prime Minister David Cameron has secured the backing of all three main parties for the highly unusual move.
[12:27] <awilkins> Just the announcement has had the chilling effect they desire I bet... unless there are ISPs right now deleting their logs in response to the "if we don't pass this law quick, people might delete their logs"....
[12:27] <awilkins> "We deleted all those logs when the EU made it illegal to retain them. Oh, sorry, did you want access to them?"
[12:28] <foobarry> party like its 1984
[12:34] <diddledan> all previous 8 seasons of 24 are on sale at googley play-doh
[12:34] <diddledan> 7.99 each
[12:34] <MooDoo> pay?   for tv shows?
[12:34] <foobarry> think i'll read the wikipedia page instead
[12:34] <foobarry> watch? 8*24?
[12:34] <awilkins> Isn't 24 on Netflix?
[12:34] <MooDoo> yes
[12:35] <awilkins> £7.99 and binge watch all 8 seasons in a month
[12:35] <awilkins> Oh, ok, £5.99
[12:35] <diddledan> yah but netflix is at the whim of content licensors
[12:35] <popey> what non-authenticating website (other than anything big like amazon / google / ebay) could you not live without.. *catch* which has an API to access the content/features?
[12:35] <awilkins> True
[12:35] <popey> (by non-auth I mean you can use it without logging in)
[12:36] <foobarry> bug tracking ones
[12:36] <awilkins> They are selling box sets of Netflix original series!
[12:36] <popey> ooh! good call
[12:36] <foobarry> launchpad/redmine/trac/
[12:36] <awilkins> For box set prices! £18 a season
[12:36] <foobarry> bugzilla
[12:36] <foobarry> another one is the tfl site
[12:36] <foobarry> for journey data
[12:36] <foobarry> and train info
[12:37] <popey> good one
[12:37] <foobarry> greater anglia train etc
[12:37] <awilkins> They don't put "Netflix" anywhere on the box, probably because people would go.... "D'uh, I can have 3 months Netflix for the cost of this box set and watch a whole lot more than just Hemlock Grove.."
[12:37] <popey> right, trains in general..
[12:37] <foobarry> started playing with redmine REST api
[12:38] <awilkins> foobarry, I started with the Ruby / ActiveRecord as an API wrapper but someone wrote a pretty nice Python one
[12:38] <awilkins> Ruby brings me out in hives
[12:39] <foobarry> cheese and chive
[12:45] <foobarry> the best app i use is for bus travel data. really handy
[12:46] <foobarry> i remember a UUPC chat with a guy from southampton that was turning the whole campus into open data json accessible, and user created content (e.g. i vommed on this statue one night i was drunk)
[12:46] <popey> hehe
[12:48] <shauno_> I Wish our busses had an api.  I screen-scrape it for a widget instead :/
[12:50] <awilkins> There's the Steam API. Which I don't use and can't live without, but someone did a thing that enumerates all your games and tells you how much money you would have spent if you bought them all today...
[12:51] <awilkins> .. and how long you spent playing them all
[12:51] <awilkins> *can live without
[12:55] <popey> Wheee, a380 is in the air
[12:55] <popey> http://www.flightradar24.com/A380/3c76553
[12:57] <awilkins> That thing is rather sobering
[12:57] <awilkins> LOTS of planes
[12:57] <dwatkins> that's a big bird
[12:57] <MooDoo> what?
[12:57] <dwatkins> two planes are taking off from Edinburgh at the same time
[12:58] <dwatkins> the A380 airbus, MooDoo
[12:58] <dwatkins> oh ok, one just landed and is taxiing
[13:01] <MooDoo> ah get ya lol
[13:03] <diddledan> the a380 to skiathos is doing weird maneouvers
[13:03] <diplo> heh i was watching that one diddledan
[13:03] <diplo> I thought the 380's were for long distance ?
[13:03] <popey> air show diddledan
[13:04] <popey> its doing practice fly-pass of the airport
[13:04] <popey> just got some nice photos of it outside
[13:04] <diddledan> aah
[13:04] <diddledan> when is the show?
[13:04] <diddledan> (I might attend)
[13:04] <diddledan> I like the farnborough show
[13:05] <dwatkins> perhaps it needs the loo
[13:05] <popey> next week
[13:05] <diddledan> gotcha
[13:05] <popey> we get half price tickets, but will probably just watch from the garden ☻
[13:05] <diddledan> lol
[13:08] <foobarry> traffic is better when you don't drive and just garden it
[13:08] <diddledan> google are on the spamhaus blocklist :-( http://cbl.abuseat.org/lookup.cgi?ip=209.85.223.176
[13:09] <diddledan> was..
[13:09] <diddledan> it's gone now
[13:09] <diddledan> 8 minutes ago ?
[13:12] <diplo> ProActive action by Google :)
[13:12] <popey> that thing is surprisingly quiet
[13:19] <foobarry> i have a revell model of a c17 globemaster. 1/144 scale. still massive
[13:19] <foobarry> don't think i'll ever make it
[13:20] <foobarry> as seen in superman of steel
[13:23] <popey> some fighter just went up
[13:31] <davmor2> popey: outside? You should be at work sunshine and none of this I was testing the camera app improvements ;)
[13:31] <popey> dammit, should have taken a pic of the a380 with my phone
[13:34] <davmor2> popey: you see how you don't think these things through properly ;)
[13:35] <popey> well, my DSLR has zoom
[13:35] <davmor2> popey: pinch to zoom on the phone :P
[13:35]  * diddledan pinches davmor2 
[13:44] <dwatkins> the pinch zoom on phone cameras tends to just crop out the surrounding image
[13:44] <dwatkins> you're better off fixing it in posty
[13:44] <dwatkins> post, even
[13:44] <popey> indeed
[13:51] <czajkowski> popey: which one do we normally go on http://www.realaletrail.net/
[13:52] <popey> http://www.watercressline.co.uk/product.php/10/real-ale-train-r-a-t
[13:55] <czajkowski> ahhh
[13:55] <czajkowski> that looks more familar
[13:55] <czajkowski> thank you
[13:56] <popey> np
[13:56] <czajkowski> wow many are already sold out
[13:56] <czajkowski> that puts a pin in that bday present
[14:08] <MooDoo> czajkowski: do you need one?
[14:17] <mapps> hm
[14:18] <diddledan> morigan mapps
[14:18] <mapps> so finally got my fibre ordered..only taken 5 weeks and 5 calls
[14:18] <mapps> but
[14:18] <mapps> no idea when it's being activated ..he told me 'within 5 days' but 3 other opeatos told me 2-3 weeks on diff calls
[14:18] <mapps> he said they'd keep me updated..yea right!
[14:18] <mapps> and then insisted i get a new router..i got one 4 weeks ago when i first phoned for fibre
[14:18] <mapps> argh
[14:19] <mapps> hey diddledan
[14:19] <diddledan> he might have put you on openreach fasttrack provision because you've been waiting so long - it costs them more but keeps you happy
[14:19] <mapps> im on sku
[14:19] <mapps> sky
[14:19] <mapps> and another annoyance today
[14:19] <diddledan> still requires openreach IIRC
[14:20] <mapps> paid some money into barclays..and planned on transferring to my main HSBC ac later..well i cant
[14:20] <diddledan> I'm on sky and my modem is an OR modem
[14:20] <mapps> 'to transfer to a new payee you need a pinsentry device.donnt have one order one now'
[14:20] <mapps> why when i got the account dont they just send 1?
[14:20] <czajkowski> MooDoo: well got himself monty python tickets but wnated to do something on the day of his bday
[14:21] <MooDoo> czajkowski: so you're looking to go on the rat?
[14:22] <MooDoo> czajkowski: the ubuntu rat that is
[14:23] <MooDoo> czajkowski: due to me getting a new job, I can't make the rat, so if I can find my ticket lol it's in a secret place, you're more than welcome to it.
[14:27] <czajkowski> MooDoo: oh what new job
[14:28] <MooDoo> czajkowski: sys admin for the health store  windows/ubuntu/rhel
[14:29] <davmor2> MooDoo: oh get you mr fancy pants
[14:31] <czajkowski> lol
[14:31] <czajkowski> davmor2: way with words dude
[15:17] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[15:22] <diddledan> morning
[15:23] <diddledan> there's a lad outside messing with the drain - atm I think he's got fed up and it just whacking it with something heavy
[15:23] <diddledan> is*
[15:24] <bigcalm> !rat | czajkowski
[15:24] <lubotu3`> czajkowski: rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
[15:24] <mapps> morning bigcalm
[15:24] <mapps> lol diddledan
[15:24] <bigcalm> o/
[15:25] <mapps> ugh
[15:25] <mapps> too tired
[15:33] <foobarry> i caught a cold without cold symptoms that made me feel super tired and nauseous. a virus
[15:38] <diddledan> oh god, you're patient zero?!~
[15:39] <diddledan> pandemic that's decimated the population all because you didn't report sick?!
[15:40] <diddledan> oh wait, no, that was a movie
[15:40] <diddledan> ignore me
[15:41] <foobarry> and my wife had it last week
[15:41] <foobarry> and my baby before that
[15:46] <foobarry> baby got steadily more grumpy until one day was super happy
[15:55] <diddledan> oh dear, is the ubuntu-phone mailing list going to turn into a flamefest tonight?
[15:55] <Myrtti> oooh, cookies.
[15:56] <awilkins> Why, has something crashed?
[15:56] <diddledan> awilkins: worse: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg09001.html
[15:56] <awilkins> NOT SOMETHING ANNOYING
[15:57] <diddledan> yeah, he's moaning about the source code comment which includes bible quotes
[15:58] <diddledan> I'm not entirely sure how it's a "threat to canonical"
[15:58] <awilkins> Hmm. Well, I don't think the quote adds any information to the header, which makes it redundant (even in the setting of it's original bible app - a grid control has no need of salvation)
[15:58] <dwatkins> ♫ this is the house that funk built ♫
[15:59] <awilkins> It's unprofessional in the same vein that comments denigrating users with colourful language are.
[15:59] <diddledan> aye
[15:59] <awilkins> If I was taking merge requests I'd probably insist that both kinds of comment be removed
[16:00] <awilkins> Comments should rest lightly upon the shoulders of self-explanatory code
[16:00] <dwatkins> Can we quote from the church of the flying spaghetti monster for balance?
[16:00] <diddledan> dwatkins: most defferably
[16:00] <awilkins> Anyway, quoting from the Bible is a copyright violation
[16:01] <diddledan> oh dear, I sound like my daddy
[16:01] <dwatkins> maybe also from the menu of Frankie & Benny's, just for something a bit different.
[16:01] <diddledan> who's copyright>?
[16:01] <dwatkins> whose?
[16:01] <awilkins> And Bible publishers, believe it or not, are utter demons about that
[16:01] <diddledan> yeah, them too
[16:01] <awilkins> Depends on the edition
[16:01] <dwatkins> someone told me that the most published publication ever was the IKEA catalogue.
[16:01] <diddledan> so quote from king-james which has no copyright:?
[16:01] <awilkins> But a lot of the more modern ones have been translated recently and are thus in copyright
[16:01] <dwatkins> not sure it qualifies, at it changes all the time, then again, there are different editions of the bible.
[16:02] <awilkins> You might think that they retranslated them just so they could copyright the text again. I couldn't possibly comment.
[16:02] <awilkins> If for example that's from the NIV, that is definitely in copyright and they are most zealous about pursuing infringers
[16:02] <dwatkins> really? wow
[16:02] <awilkins> KJV is obviously fair game
[16:03] <awilkins> But still irrelevant to the actual source code
[16:03] <dwatkins> "here, have a lawsuit for posting something your $DIETY said"
[16:03] <dwatkins> "you're quoting the devil from the old testament? go right ahead"
[16:03] <awilkins> Religious publishing houses are big business
[16:03] <diddledan> dwatkins: APIs are copyright too, so $DEITY isn't allowed either
[16:03] <dwatkins> Today I learned :)
[16:04] <diddledan> silly oracle vs google
[16:04]  * awilkins was married to an evangelist for 15 years and knows a thing or two about religious publishing and their copyright habits
[16:04] <dwatkins> I went out with a catholic once.
[16:04] <diddledan> lol
[16:05] <dwatkins> for about 4 years
[16:05] <diddledan> I saw a church
[16:05] <dwatkins> it was, however, a long time ago.
[16:05] <dwatkins> oh, I used to go to church, but only until I was 17.
[16:05] <diddledan> it had pretty spikes and all sorts
[16:05] <diddledan> (obviously a CofE church)
[16:06] <diddledan> I love the architechture of our old c of e churches
[16:06] <awilkins> I admire the work that went into them
[16:06] <dwatkins> yeah, I'm going to be singing in a choir which meets in a church soon hopefully, but it'll be secular music, not churchy stuff we'll be singing
[16:07] <awilkins> I deplore the resources and hard work that could have been used for a grain silo or something else more useful
[16:07] <dwatkins> there's a chapel near here with an uncertain history, as the records wer largely burned (Roslyn)
[16:07] <davmor2> diddledan: it's the Cathedrals that never cease to amaze me
[16:07] <awilkins> Roslyn? Not being a bit Dan Brown, are we?
[16:08] <awilkins> The religious dudes have their own equivalent of the PRS and everything for hymns.
[16:09] <awilkins> They have to assidiously record which hymns they sing so as to pay the right royalties
[16:09] <dwatkins> awilkins: a bit Dan Brown in which sense? I just mean that the tour explains they don't know the meaning of the placement of certain statues etc.
[16:09] <dwatkins> perhaps they were being a bit Dan Brown, though, yes
[16:10] <awilkins> Roslyn = Rose Line = to do with the grail legends
[16:10] <dwatkins> cool, I'd best go see it again and check for evidence of water cups
[16:11] <dwatkins> anyhoo, it's hometime for me, toodles!
[16:13] <MissDreamee> Anyone here uses multiple distros?
[16:14] <diddledan> how is 9:30 am EDT the same as 12:30pm PDT?
[16:14] <diddledan> surely that's backasswards?
[16:14] <diddledan> I thought east had sun-up before the specific
[16:15] <awilkins> That is backwards
[16:15] <awilkins> It's 0915 PDT and 1215EDT right now
[16:15] <diddledan> that's what I thunked
[16:15] <diddledan> amazon can't tell the time then
[16:16] <MissDreamee> It is backwards
[16:16] <MissDreamee> I think EDT is UTC -4 and PDT UTC -7
[16:17] <diddledan> I can't work out when this keynote is/was
[16:18] <diddledan> it says it's either 930am EDT/ 6:30am PDT OR 930am EDT/1230pm PDT
[16:19] <diddledan> have I missed it? or is it happening in 10 minutes time?
[16:19] <diddledan> the link takes me to a page that says "thank you for watching. the video will be uploaded to youtube shortly"
[16:55] <shauno_> diddledan: go back to sleep?  it'll be "was" when you wake up :)
[16:58] <diddledan> that sounds like a good idea
[16:58] <diddledan> sleep is always a good idea
[16:59] <daftykins> unless you just woke up
[16:59] <daftykins> then it's very bad
[16:59] <shauno_> it's usually my only idea when I first wake up :/
[17:00] <diddledan> yup
[17:00] <diddledan> wake up? NO! Y U NO UNCONSCIOUS
[17:00] <diddledan> waking up is the worst thing evar
[17:01] <daftykins> i missed the postie this morning =| he rang at 9am and i got to the door when he was walking away at the end of my road
[17:01] <daftykins> i have my new electronic cat flap \o/
[17:01] <diddledan> but have you got an electronic cat?
[17:02] <daftykins> sure do
[17:02] <daftykins> or at least, she's meant to have a tag
[17:02] <davmor2> MissDreamee: I run unity7 and unity8 if that counts :)
[17:02] <diddledan> davmor2: methinks not
[17:02] <daftykins> draping her over it after putting the batteries in resulted in more paw flailing than it did success, however
[17:03] <davmor2> diddledan: shhh they are different :D
[17:03] <diddledan> daftykins: aww, cute
[17:03] <diddledan> I like cute kitties
[17:03] <daftykins> ;)
[17:03] <daftykins> also, the hole in the door is bigger than it - so i'm gonna need some ply to cover up the existing =|
[17:07] <shauno_> I misread that as an oversized cat.  I'm not entirely sure how, in retrospect
[17:07] <diddledan> GIANT CAT RAMPAGES CIVILISATION
[17:17] <daftykins> if she were giant i wouldn't have to deal with neighbourhood cats getting in on her territory all the time
[17:18] <diddledan> awww :-(
[17:18] <diddledan> that's not fair
[17:18] <diddledan> how dare they?!
[17:18] <daftykins> i know!
[17:18] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ndu6yqwk3igrosz/IMG_20140705_043632.jpg
[17:18] <daftykins> i caught the little blighter, somehow got in despite having the cat flap as out-only
[17:19] <ali1234> mummy can we keep it?
[17:19] <diddledan> yeah, my parent's cat used to be able to bypass that type of restriction - he worked out he could pull at the flap and it opened
[17:20] <diddledan> this was after weeks of bashing on it
[17:20] <diddledan> the bashing wasn't to get in/out it was to tell us he was there
[17:20] <diddledan> even if it was unlocked he'd bash it
[17:21] <diddledan> I think he realised it made loud noises that brought hooming
[17:21] <diddledan> s
[17:21] <diddledan> hoomings**
[17:22] <diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4e-qJdEAXo <-- mockingjay lives
[17:23] <mapps> 8 pound train return
[17:23] <mapps> or 6 quid single
[17:23] <mapps> ;]
[17:31] <diddledan> how do people think that the F word strung together directly behind normal words, a la "f this f-ing you f-er f-ing me when I f-ing work to f-ing pay for your f-ing f-er"
[17:31] <diddledan> how do they think it makes coherent sentences**
[17:31] <diddledan> seriously I can't work out what all the yelling is about
[17:32] <shauno_> are they yelling it at you?
[17:32] <diddledan> how do they expect 1) anyone including the person they're yelling at to understand, and 2) eaves-droppers to work out who did what to whom?
[17:32] <diddledan> nah, it's upstairs afaict
[17:33] <daftykins> i'm not sure they're concerned with diddledan lurking in the bushes with his radio mic ;)
[17:33] <mapps> gah what is wrong with 3g recently
[17:33] <mapps> so damn slow
[17:33] <diddledan> well if they're going to broadcast it to the entire street they might as well make it obvious what's going on, no?
[17:33] <daftykins> XD
[17:34] <mapps> the pings like 8000ms according to speedtest.net app
[17:34] <shauno_> I wonder why people never question Snopes.
[17:34] <mapps> even on 4g im only getting say 12mbit
[17:34] <mapps> 10936ms
[17:34] <mapps> absolute joke
[17:34] <diddledan> mapps: maybe the network is overloaded there?
[17:35] <mapps> yet download shows as 2.45mbit
[17:35] <mapps> oh no
[17:35] <mapps> download 0.2 upload 2.4
[17:35] <mapps> so loading a web page is painful
[17:35] <mapps> yea its been happening for the past few weeks
[17:35] <shauno_> whippersnappers!  in my day you had to go to manchester uni to get 12mbit :/
[17:36] <mapps> as MartijnVdS said 3g and 4g are diff networks so i guess 3g is congested ..and when i use 4g not as many people on there
[17:36] <ali1234> shauno_: because snopes links to references
[17:36] <diddledan> I'd expect them to be the same network just different spectrum
[17:37] <mapps> hmm
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> it all depends on:
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> * congestion of the network
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> * signal strength (both ways! send *and* receive)
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> * your operator's settings
[17:37] <mapps> 3g used to be ok
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> * frequency used (800MHz vs 2.4GHz)
[17:37] <ali1234> they are all different networks. for example three has no 2g network and they rent it off someone else. that's why they won't allow you to use a 2.5g-only phone
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> uh 2.6
[17:42] <mapps> done todays tv watching
[17:42] <mapps> suits/graceland/murder in the first
[17:42] <mapps> ;]
[17:42] <shauno_> ali1234: that doesn't really answer my question, since they invent sources
[17:43] <shauno_> my favourite is http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/spiders.asp
[17:43] <shauno_> originally they just cited Ms Holst in a magazine that didn't exist.  now they've added a quote from Scientific American, which is completely contradictory (spiders avoid humans because they vibrate, and end quote with "found on on his face")
[17:44] <mapps> hmm
[17:44] <mapps> is it possible to make my wireless come on before a reboot?
[17:44] <mapps> so if i rebooted remotely my box comes back online
[17:45] <daftykins> wat
[17:45] <mapps> well
[17:46] <mapps> my wireless doesnt connect until i login
[17:46] <mapps> on my xubuntu machine
[17:46] <daftykins> enable auto login? :)
[17:46] <mapps> ah
[17:47] <mapps> could do that yea
[17:47] <daftykins> or you could ditch network manager and hardcode your connection setup
[17:47] <daftykins> but given all the funky stuff you play with that sounds like a bad move
[17:47] <ali1234> one time a spider walked on my face while i was sleeping
[17:47] <ali1234> so it must be true
[17:48] <mapps> :D
[17:49] <shauno_> oh I'm not saying it's true.  just having their source claim spiders actively avoid sleeping humans, and walk on their faces, is completely contradictory
[17:50] <ali1234> blame the sources
[17:50] <ali1234> note that the pc professional article isn't actually in the citation section
[17:51] <shauno_> sure it is, 4th of the 5
[17:52] <ali1234> oh yeah
[17:52] <ali1234> how can they give a page number?
[17:52] <ali1234> lol
[17:52] <mapps> hmm cant find the charger i wanted now
[17:52] <mapps> rats
[17:53] <diddledan> probably because the magazine had a number of pages and it appeared on a page that-many down the stack?
[17:53] <mapps> wanted to get some portable phone charger for when i go away small thing fits in your pocket
[17:53] <diddledan> mapps: rats? where?!
[17:53] <shauno_> diddledan, that's the bit that has me interested.  no-one can find any trace of this magazine existing
[17:54] <mapps> :D
[17:54] <diddledan> shauno_: oh
[17:54] <diddledan> shauno_: PCPro existed
[17:54] <diddledan> shauno_: I assumed that was an evolution of PC Professional
[17:54] <ali1234> but didn't have any such article
[17:55] <ali1234> i think snopes did it just to wind people up
[17:58] <shauno_> pc pro has never been called pc professional, and launched in nov 94
[18:00] <foobarry> http://ask.metafilter.com/146671/Paging-Lisa-Birgit-Holst
[18:05] <foobarry> seems everything about that page is false
[18:05] <foobarry> whterh deliberate or not, is anyones guess
[18:06] <diddledan> I like the razor that suggests to never put down to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence
[18:06] <shauno_> oh I haven't claimed any malice either.  I just find it interesting because they are somewhat sacrosant
[18:06] <foobarry> cannot be incompetence
[18:07] <foobarry> so either intended to be fake article, or an attempt to be an authority on matters under false pretence
[18:07] <shauno_> the same way we tell people not to use wikipedia as a primary source (yet go there first for everything)
[18:07] <mapps> gah what the hell
[18:07] <mapps> IPv6 connections work, but connections using DNS names do not use IPv6. For some reason, your browser or your OS is not doing IPv6 DNS 'AAAA' lookups.
[18:07] <diddledan> first? surely you mean "solely"
[18:07] <mapps> yet i can ping -6 ipv6.google.com ?!
[18:08] <foobarry> mapps: what is your dns sever
[18:08] <diddledan> mapps: if you can ping a dns name then that means aaaa resolving works
[18:08] <mapps> hmm
[18:08] <shauno_> it may work selectively though?  I know google were doing that the other way around for a while
[18:09] <diddledan> yeah it depends on your upstream dns provider I guess
[18:09] <mapps> dns is the router ip it says
[18:09] <diddledan> I tend to rely on 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
[18:09] <shauno_> you may also run across broken configurations.  eg, for a long time apple treated v4 vs v6 as a race.  whichever answered first was taken as the only reply
[18:10] <diddledan> >.<
[18:10] <mapps> its just put ipv6 in [] right?
[18:10] <mapps> to access in abrowser
[18:10] <foobarry> which browser
[18:10] <shauno_> so you'd get a v6 address for ipv6.google because it only has an AAAA answer, but a v4 address for google.com because it has both, and the A is more likely to be cached
[18:10] <mapps> chrome
[18:11] <foobarry> have u enabled it in chrome:?
[18:11] <diddledan> foobarry: you shouldn't need to?
[18:11] <mapps> didnt think i needed to
[18:11] <mapps> it was working before
[18:11] <shauno_> I think Chrome uses this behaviour too; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Eyeballs
[18:12] <mapps> i was pushing 2 IPV6 dns in radvd too
[18:12] <mapps> RDNSS 2001:4860:4860::8888 2001:4860:4860::8844 {
[18:13] <foobarry> chrome://net-internals/#dns
[18:14] <mapps> ive got an ipv6 address
[18:14] <mapps> just cant lookup
[18:14] <mapps> not sure what to do this was all working the other day
[18:19] <foobarry> try a ipv6 dns server?
[18:20] <diddledan> can you ping -6 2001:470:1f08:b73::1?
[18:20] <diddledan> that's my tunnel endpoint
[18:20] <mapps> so i just disconnected reconnected and now i can reach ip6 addresses in my browser
[18:21] <diddledan> yey
[18:21] <mapps> could it be because i turned my linux box off earlier? that dishes out ip6 using radvd
[18:21] <foobarry> i was gonna suggest turn off hae a lie down and then try again
[18:21] <mapps> but the laptop alredy had an ipv6 so surely not?
[18:21] <mapps> it wouldnt affect it wod it?
[18:21] <mapps> *would
[18:22] <foobarry> :S
[18:22] <diddledan> not if your linux box stayed on the same ipv6 address it woudln't
[18:22] <foobarry> time for washing up
[18:23] <shauno_> why's the linux box running radvd?
[18:24] <diddledan> becasue that's where his tunnel terminates
[18:24] <shauno_> well that's what I'm wondering.  because if he turned off the box that handles the tunnel ..
[18:25] <diddledan> yeah, without the tunnel then ipv6 won't work at all
[18:30] <diddledan> so we all know LAMP - the A being Apache, so what's LEMP?
[18:33] <diddledan> seems the E is for _N_ginx
[18:33] <diddledan> that's so obvious... -_-
[18:34] <shauno_> right:)  because nginx is pronounced engine-x, and lnmp is impossible for even the welsh to pronounce
[18:34] <diddledan> lol
[18:34] <diddledan> what about if you were using lighttpd?
[18:34] <diddledan> llmp?
[18:34] <MooDoo> LLMP ;)
[18:34] <MooDoo> lol
[18:34] <shauno_> I'm fairly sure the welsh can pronounce that
[18:34] <diddledan> the welsh would have a good go at that one
[18:35] <shauno_> "clump" or similar
[18:35] <diddledan> no, llmp
[18:35] <diddledan> <-- reads welsh
[18:35] <diddledan> <-- doesn't understand it
[18:35] <shauno_> carefuly - with that surname, people might believe you
[18:35] <diddledan> :-p
[18:36] <diddledan> ok, let's replace Mysql with Redis: LARP
[18:36] <diddledan> and LERP
[18:37] <diddledan> and LLRP
[18:37] <shauno_> and obviously, dragonbsd  (or darwin for the sadists)
[18:37] <diddledan> hehe
[18:37] <diddledan> DERP
[18:37] <diddledan> !!
[18:38] <diddledan> is darwin installable again yet? or did the new effort stop just after it started
[18:38] <diddledan> http://www.puredarwin.org/
[18:38] <diddledan> still "now open"
[18:39] <diddledan> yey for last news
[18:39] <diddledan> 15/12/12
[18:39] <diddledan> that's 2012
[18:39] <diddledan> 2.5 years ago
[18:39] <diddledan> methinks the "new" effort didn't get out of the "new" phase
[18:40] <shauno_> there's a good reason.  it's really not worth the effort
[18:40] <shauno_> we already have hurd for people who despise themselves.
[18:40] <diddledan> lol
[18:40] <diddledan> that's GNU/Hurd to you
[18:41] <diddledan> because we all need more guh's
[18:41] <diddledan> as in g-noo NOT new
[18:42] <shauno_> it really encompasses all the bits you didn't like about OSX, with none of the good sides.  it also features enough missing drivers that it supports less hardware than OSX
[18:42] <shauno_> but on the plus side, it's build system will give you a whole new appreciation for single malt scotches
[18:43] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgPyqyh4X4
[18:44] <shauno_> (as far as I can tell, darwinbuild is a version-control system that didn't know what it wanted to be when it grew up)
[18:45] <shauno_> oh, it also features build numbers that they don't publish, and it won't build without specifying one.  so you have to invent one, and when it fails, start grepping the build tree to find the list it's matching against
[18:45] <diddledan> lol
[18:46] <daftykins> sounds lovely
[18:46] <daftykins> whoops lost him
[18:46] <diddledan> hmm, what happened there then?
[18:47] <diddledan> textual done disappeared on me
[18:47] <daftykins> remote host closed
[18:47] <daftykins> you dun quit!
[18:47] <diddledan> I dun goofd?
[18:47] <daftykins> mayhaps
[20:40] <Azelphur> Is there any way to run a specific application with a different gtk theme?
[20:40] <Azelphur> Eclipse really does not like my GTK theme.
[20:43] <daftykins> :D
[20:44] <ali1234> yes but you won't like it
[20:45] <daftykins> uh oh
[20:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: how do I do it?
[20:45] <ali1234> is it gtk2 or gtk3?
[20:46] <Azelphur> I think 2
[20:47] <daftykins> Thunderbirds ftw
[20:52] <Azelphur> ali1234: ?
[20:53] <ali1234> GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/<theme>/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
[20:55] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/144968/set-variable-in-desktop-file
[20:58] <Azelphur> ali1234: amusingly I tried that one, it had no effect
[20:58] <ali1234> eclipse is probably gtk3 now
[20:58] <Azelphur> ah
[20:58] <Azelphur> happen to know the GTK3 environment variable?
[20:59] <ali1234> there isn't one
[21:00] <Azelphur> that's useful
[21:00] <ali1234> to do this on gtk3 you have to run multiple copies of gnome-settings-daemon (and therefore multiple dbus sessions)
[21:00] <ali1234> yeah, that's gnome for you
[21:00] <ali1234> i told you you wouldn't like it
[21:00] <Azelphur> \o/
[21:00] <ali1234> wat theme is it?
[21:01] <ali1234> if it's one of shimmer themes you should report a bug and we will fix it to work with eclipse
[21:01] <ali1234> the up side of gtk themes is they use all css, so you can make rules that apply to specific applications to fix things like this
[21:01] <popey> ali1234: does xfce use vino by default?
[21:02] <ali1234> what is vino?
[21:02] <popey> vnc server
[21:02] <ali1234> oh. do you mean xubuntu?
[21:02] <ali1234> because xfce doesn't have defaults
[21:03] <ali1234> it's not installed here, and i didn't uninstall it...
[21:03] <popey> oh sorry, yes
[21:04] <ali1234> vnc is terrible anyway. use xhosting
[21:04] <mapps> cant decide what portable charger to get..have to get one though..5s dies too quickly ;(
[21:05] <Azelphur> ali1234: nah, it's some third party theme I grabbed from gnome-look
[21:05] <ali1234> yeah those are almost always terrible
[21:06] <ali1234> you could try hacking the css to fix it yourself
[21:06] <ali1234> ah... eclipse is java right?
[21:06] <popey> mapps: i got an anker 13000mAh
[21:07] <Azelphur> I have one of the EasyAcc 12000mAh, they are cool
[21:08] <mapps> i was looking at ; http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultra-Compact-Lipstick-Sized-Technology-Smartphones-Adapters-/dp/B00F4SDOVU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405026195&sr=8-1&keywords=iphone+5s+portable+charger
[21:08] <mapps> not in pink :P
[21:09] <mapps> and also http://www.amazon.co.uk/EasyAcc®-10000mAh-Brilliant-Smartphone-Bluetooth/dp/B00H9BEC8E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405026195&sr=8-2&keywords=iphone+5s+portable+charger but only 10000
[21:09] <mapps> didnt see the anker 13000 or easyac 12000 ?
[21:09] <mapps> are they small enough to fit in your pocket?
[21:10] <popey> the one I have is a bit bulky
[21:10] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/13000mAh-Portable-External-smartphones-lightning-Black/dp/B00BQ5KHJW
[21:11] <popey> battery lasts ages
[21:11] <mapps> im getting it mainly for when i go on holiday / to the football / racing phones guaranteed to die
[21:11] <mapps> but want to be able to fit it in my pocket..else im sure il put it down and forget it!
[21:12] <popey> the flat thin ones fit nicely in a pocket
[21:12] <popey> i have one on my wishlist to buy for wifey's handbag
[21:13] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00J7FDB5U/
[21:13] <popey> that one, but in white, decent mAh
[21:13] <popey> but flat, so fit nicely in a coat or jeans back pocket
[21:13] <mapps> 8000mAH enough?
[21:20] <popey> enough to get you out of a sticky situation
[21:22] <Azelphur> mapps: my 12000 is the type you could keep in your coat pocket reasonably easy
[21:22] <Azelphur> but you wouldn't be fitting it in your trouser/jeans pocket
[21:23] <daftykins> XD
[21:24] <mapps> ah
[21:24] <mapps> the lipstick size one is kinda tempting
[21:24] <mapps> says it adds 9hours charge
[21:26] <popey> just bought the pink one for wifey
[21:27] <Azelphur> mapps: maybe on an old Nokia, not on a smartphone.
[21:28] <Azelphur> my 12000 generally does 2-3 charges of mine
[21:28] <mapps> really?
[21:28] <mapps> what the hell
[21:28] <mapps> Add more than a full charge or 9 hours of additional talk time to your iPhone 5 / 4 / 4S / 3G / 3GS. On most other phones, benefit from 1 full charge or 90+ hours of audio playback.
[21:28] <mapps> see
[21:28] <mapps> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultra-Compact-Lipstick-Sized-Technology-Smartphones-Adapters-/dp/B00F4SDOVU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405026195&sr=8-1&keywords=iphone+5s+portable+charger
[21:29] <mapps> so lies
[21:29] <mapps> figured it wouldnt be as good as it sounds
[21:29] <daftykins> consider that your device is probably rocking a 2500+ mAh battery
[21:29] <mapps> http://www.amazon.co.uk/EasyAcc®-10000mAh-Brilliant-Smartphone-Bluetooth/dp/B00H9BEC8E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405026195&sr=8-2&keywords=iphone+5s+portable+charger
[21:29] <mapps> that claims 5-6 charges!!
[21:31] <Myrtti> oohh. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/encompass/asmo-charger-the-worlds-first-truly-intelligent-ch
[21:32] <Azelphur> mapps: the Nexus 5 has a 2300mAh battery, so 10,000 divided by 2300 is 4.34, and that's if you have a magical zero loss system.
[21:33] <popey> power up 3 ships next week!
[21:34] <popey> cant wait
[21:34] <mapps> so those claims are garbage basically?
[21:49] <popey> mapps: dunno, i dont own that battery