[00:01] is it faster or easier or whats the reason people use it? [00:01] I can tell you why *I* use it, but I imagine that different people have different reasons. [00:02] * Security [00:02] * More interface choices [00:02] * Faster on the same hardware [00:02] * More configurable [00:03] * More features I care about [00:03] do i need to reinstall all my programs if i switch? [00:03] * More compatability with things I use on my other (non-xubuntu) Linux systems [00:04] Most Windows programs take a lot of work to run on Linux, and have better Linux-native alternatives. If you tell us what you regularly use, we can offer specific advice on those applications. [00:05] photoshop, chrome, utorrent, and skype is all really, and Mudlet [00:05] chrome and skype are already available [00:05] utorrent has better alternatives [00:06] okay, where do i find apps/programs for xubuntu? [00:06] photoshop has a Linux-native counterpart called GIMP, but many artists I know still run Photoshop using WINE or a Windows virtual machine or Crossover Office. [00:06] I'm not sure what mudlet is -- a MUD/MUSH/etc client maybe? [00:06] okay [00:06] yep! [00:06] xubuntu072: Xubuntu comes with a "software center" installed, and you can browse software through there [00:07] xubuntu072: There are about three dozen MUD clients to choose from, pick one you like :) [00:07] aha okay :) [00:07] will installing it delete everything i have saved? [00:07] That depends on what option you choose during install. I'd make good backups just in case. [00:08] You *can* dual-boot Windows 8 and Xubuntu, but it's kind of a pain in the ass (one of my work machines has this set-up) [00:08] Dual boot means you have both installed on the same computer, and choose when you boot up whether to run Windows or Xubuntu. [00:08] wouldn't dual-boosting be hard on the comp? [00:08] It uses up a ton of hard disk space, but if you have a big hard disk it's not any harder on the computer than a single boot. [00:09] okay, would 650-ish gb be enough [00:09] ? [00:09] More than enough. [00:09] I'm pretty sure my work machine is only a half-TB or something [00:09] aha okay, well could you help me dual-boot my comp? or should i find youtube videos or something to help? [00:10] I think there's a guide somewhere, but it's not terribly hard. The only gotcha I ran into was related to some encryption stuff I was messing with (I work in information security), and I solved it by not encrypting Windows since everything important is on Linux anyway. [00:11] Basically, rule 0 is "Back everything up" [00:11] okay [00:11] It's rare for a dual-boot install to go bad, but when it does it nukes the data on your hard drive as often as not. [00:11] D: [00:11] aha now im nervous to do it :P [00:11] IOW, less than a 1% chance it'll happen to you, but if it happens you're screwed if you don't have backups [00:11] Meh, I haven't had one do that since 2002 [00:12] I'm just paranoid [00:12] It comes with my job ;) [00:12] heh i guess so! [00:12] is there somewhere i could back stuff up for free? or should i get an ext. hard drive? [00:12] I use an external hard disk. I wouldn't trust a free backup service with my data. [00:13] * HedgeMage wonders when xubuntu072 will notice the "cautious lady" theme :P [00:13] hehe [00:14] how much ram do i need to run it? just thought of that [00:14] is 8 gb enough? [00:14] More than enough. [00:14] heh okay [00:14] I have 8GB on the machine I'm using now, and I can run this machine plus an Xubuntu virtual machine without trouble [00:14] :) [00:15] whats a virtual machine? [00:15] Just what it sounds like...it's a pretend computer that you can install stuff on inside your real computer. [00:15] oh [00:15] so...why dont you just install it on your real comp? [00:16] sorry, im probably bugging you now :P [00:16] So, for example, the computer I'm on right now is running Funtoo Linux, but I needed to test something on Xubuntu, so I made an Xubuntu virtual machine to use for testing. This way if the thing I'm testing explodes I don't care -- it's not messing up a real machine. [00:16] Nah, I like you. You ask more intelligent questions than most. [00:17] heh okay then, and that makes sense i guess, but if it does "explode" would it ruin the machine? [00:18] virtual machine* [00:18] Right, but the VM isn't real...I'll just delete it and go about my business. :) [00:18] ah [00:18] okay [00:18] I can even save copies -- called snapshots -- of the VM at various points in time in case I need to mess with how it was at one specific point. [00:19] :) [00:19] yeah that makes sense [00:19] ok im gonna go look and see if i can find a way to dualboot, ill stay here though [00:20] xubuntu072: make an Xubuntu boot disk, boot to it...one of the options is to leave windows on the drive and dual boot [00:20] xubuntu072: just please make back-ups first :) [00:20] how do i make a boot disk? :3 [00:21] just put the file i downloaded onto a disk? [00:21] xubuntu072: go to xubuntu.org and download an image...there are also instructions there on writing it to a USB stick the right way, or burning it to CD. I'm not sure how to do that from a Windows machine, I tend to do it from Linux or UNIX [00:22] would the image be the torrent i downloaded while i was asking questions? 913 mbs? [00:23] yep, it should end in .iso [00:23] it just says its a file, no extension on it [00:23] should i add .iso? [00:24] that's odd [00:24] IIRC windows doesn't always display the file extension these days, though [00:25] i went into properties and it shows "type of file: file" [00:25] This claims to explain burning from Windows: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto [00:27] ok thank you! ill be back in a bit, gonna find a disk [00:29] :) [00:38] ok i got one and its asking me wether or not to install it like a usb(editable and deleteable) or like a dvd/cd(permenant) should i do cd? [00:39] nvm i got it :3 [00:48] ok, so i have xubuntu burnt onto the disk, can i just restart and boot from the disk or is there something else i can do? [00:48] have to do* [00:49] Nope, just boot to the disk and have fun. If you choose "try xubuntu" instead of "install xubuntu" at the first menu, it'll load you into an environment where you can connect to this channel we're chatting on and then start the installer, so you can ask questions here if you need help. :) [00:49] so, if i install it, is that dual-booting? [00:50] or is that overwriting windows? [00:50] dual-booting is one of the configurations you may install [00:50] okay [00:50] that's why I said connecting to chat while you install might help :) [00:50] aha yep [00:50] ok, ill brb(hopefully :P) [00:50] :D [01:07] hey hedge, you still here? [01:07] Yep. [01:08] heh gotta figure out how to boot from a disk [01:08] wilsonjl3: most computers tell you very early in the boot up what key to press to get to a boot menu [01:09] Common ones are Esc, F11, F2, Delete, and F12 but there are others. [01:09] yeah i got to that but i dunno what to do from that window, it just has boot priorities [01:09] pick the CD or USB stick you just made [01:10] * HedgeMage disappears, will return shortly with tea [01:11] it didnt have CD anywhere in the list [01:11] can i have tea too? :P [01:12] Sure! [01:12] * HedgeMage hands out tea to the channel [01:13] * drinks tea [01:13] O.o [01:13] Hrm...sometimes the CD is referred to as ATAPI something or called SCSI in a machine that doesn't even have a SCSI bus, or called sr0...did you see any of those? [01:13] wilsonjl3: "/me sips her tea" produces: [01:13] * HedgeMage sips her tea [01:13] :) [01:13] ah [01:15] oh! does Xubuntu have a teamviewer-type thing? [01:16] Q: What's w/ all the GNOME updates? Does xubuntu need them, & if not can u remove &/or prevent them? [Trusty] [01:16] * donkeypong sips tea ... [01:17] wilsonjl3: I don't know what teamviewer is...could you describe it? [01:18] it allows me to controll another person's comp remotely [01:19] Ahh, yes. [01:19] I use something called VNC, but there's a built-in thing in stock Xubuntu that's easier to use IIRC. [01:20] okay, does the person i want to connect wiith need to have it too? [01:24] For VNC, whichever computer is being viewed/controlled needs to have something installed, but you can give people a web-based client to connect to it from so they don't have to install anything. [01:24] I have no idea about the other stuff. [01:25] aha ok. im trying to boot from disk now. on my smartphone here [01:26] ok i got a blue xubuntu screen and its loading i think. if i ran upstairs and made a tea would it wreck anything? [01:26] Nope. [01:26] Well, assuming you have a qwerty keyboard it won't [01:27] okay brb :) [01:27] You'll miss your first chance to change to dvorak/azerty/etc and have to wait until later :) [01:27] ya i do o.o [01:27] cool, then you're good [01:28] However, as a dvorak typist, I'm now required to glance disapprovingly in your direction at regular intervals. It's in the handbook. :P [01:28] dvorak? o.o [01:28] whats that [01:29] Wilsonjl3_: It's a different keyboard layout. [01:29] Wilsonjl3_: QWERTY was designed to slow typists down so that they would not jam their mechanical typewriters. [01:29] Wilsonjl3_: Some people find that they type faster on a dvorak layout (which puts the most-used keys on the home row), but I chose it for another reason: [01:30] and dvorak is faster? [01:30] oh. okay [01:30] I had horrible carpal tunnel syndrome -- to the point that the doctors wanted to do surgery on both my wrists -- and was able to get pain-free with no surgery by changing to dvorak, taking some B vitamins, and changing my writing (both switching to fountain pens and learning a better writing style) [01:31] So, it's annoying when I have to use other people's computers, which are usually set up in qwerty, but it's worth it to not have hand and wrist pain all the time. [01:31] hmm. thats pretty awesome [01:32] yep. :) [01:33] the keyboard thing and being able to get over it. not the carpal tunnel [01:33] I knew what you meant. :) [01:34] aha okay :) [01:35] so if im at the wifi stage it means it worked. right? i didnt screw up? [01:36] sounds good to me. :) [01:36] awesome [01:36] you chose to try xubuntu rather than install, right? [01:37] no? should i have? [01:38] meh, not that big a deal since you can talk to me here. :) [01:38] Most of the questions should have obvious answers...what language do you speak, what time zone are you in, etc. [01:38] When you get to the disk partitioning options (I'm not sure what it's called) that is where you want to chose the option to dual boot [01:38] okay :) it says i can delete everything off or there is an option for something else. do i pick something else? [01:39] something else if you want dual boot [01:39] okay [01:39] I think that rather than putting the term "dual boot"which some newbies won't know, they just put a description something like "Keep windows and install xubuntu next to it" [01:41] fuck [01:41] sorry [01:41] what? [01:41] i think i cleared it [01:41] If so, you better have back-ups [01:42] if you do not have back-ups this would be a good time to pull the plug out of your machine [01:42] ya i do. but i dont have windows 8 os disk. can i put old pics and stuff on xubuntu? [01:42] yep [01:42] that's no problem [01:43] looks like im running xubuntu :p [01:43] If you are planning to go xubuntu-only anyway, you may as well do full disk encryption [01:43] It's a *huge* gain in security for only minor effort, it's just above-newbie-level to set it up on a dual-boot [01:43] encryption? [01:43] on a normal install it's a one-click option [01:43] Yep. [01:43] So, here's the short version of the lecture... [01:43] * HedgeMage gets up on her soap box [01:43] okay [01:44] sorry for swearing [01:44] meh, we're not supposed to in here but I'm the only one awake right now and I don't care [01:44] Anyone with physical access to your computer can read everything on it. This is bad for desktops (which can get stolen) and worse for laptops (which can get lost or stolen or just messed with when you aren't looking in a waiting room somewhere) [01:44] ok [01:45] When you use full-disk encryption, that means you are, in rough terms, putting the whole hard drive in a secret code that only you can read. [01:45] Someone without the passphrase just sees useless gobbledygook [01:45] and encryption prevents this? [01:45] Exactly. [01:45] ohhh [01:46] So, any time your computer is powered down (if you have full-disk encryption, or FDE) it is unreadable. [01:46] can i encrypt small parts seperately? [01:46] You can, but FDE is safer. Here's why: [01:47] With FDE, you don't have to worry about your programs storing temporary files in places you might not expect -- places that might not be encrypted. [01:47] With FDE, you don't have to worry if the programs you use do encryption right, because they are in the operating system's protection all the time [01:47] yeah. can i do an fde. but then encrypt a file inside the fde that uses a different passphrase? [01:47] yes! [01:47] :D [01:47] aha awesome :D [01:50] so is encryption like the password to login at the start? [01:51] on my old os i mean? [01:51] No, Windows doesn't have FDE (to my knowledge) unless you install separate software to do it. [01:51] Your user account doesn't give you FDE. [01:52] With FDE, when you first boot up your computer, you will need to put in the disk password or it won't start up because it can't read the disk. Then, once it starts up, you will put in your user account password to log in. [01:53] ok i need help [01:53] Wilsonjl3_: FYI, I just realized the time and that I have an early workout scheduled tomorrow. I can hang out for another half-hour at most. [01:53] Then I must sleep. [01:53] Okay, what's up? [01:54] ok it says : a general error mounting filesystems, a maintenence shell will now be started, what do i do in this shell? [01:55] beside the command line it says root@xubuntu:~# [01:55] That's...interesting. Did it give no more specific error message? [01:55] no. thats all [01:55] Okay, at precisely what point in the install did that happen? That may give me a clue as to the type of problem. [01:55] says controll and d will terminate shell. restart the system [01:56] Right, but we may not want to do that...let's troubleshoot first. [01:56] during the blue loading screen [01:56] * HedgeMage likes collecting intelligence before choosing tactics. [01:56] Wilsonjl3_: hmm...usually it's already copying files at that point, so I'd expect that it has already installed and is trying to remount the filesystems after. [01:57] Wilsonjl3_: but I could be guessing wrong which screen you mean, too :) [01:57] Wilsonjl3_: Here's what I suggest: [01:57] when it starts up [01:57] what do i do then? [01:57] Ooooh...so the install did finish and you rebooted? [01:57] * HedgeMage is confused [01:57] ya [01:58] you took the CD out when you rebooted? [01:58] \me is super scared he wrecked his comp [01:58] Relax. I rescue worse stuff than this all the time. [01:58] it said too [01:59] yes, you were supposed to [01:59] I just try not to assume things I can't see when I can help it. :) [01:59] but it wouldnt start without it so i had to put it back in [01:59] okay [01:59] Okay, so here's the thing... [02:00] It's *really* hard for me to help on a computer I can't see if you do stuff without telling me. [02:00] okay [02:00] If you calm down, take a deep breath, and explain things as they happen I can be more accurate in what I tell you. [02:00] Plus, I can keep you from doing something random that breaks stuff :) [02:01] okay, sorry [02:01] That's okay, you are learning. [02:01] And you are MUCH nicer than the dodo in #linux earlier [02:01] :) [02:01] Okay, so first a couple of triage questions... [02:02] i rebooted my comp and it said to take the disk out so i did. when i tried turning back on it was just a black svreen saying i had no OS so i stuck the disk back in amd iy started loading up. during the blue screen this shell popped up [02:02] 1) Will your job or other critical life responsibility be seriously hurt if we don't manage to fix this in the next 40 minutes and I go to bed anyway, then we pick back up tomorrow where we left off? [02:03] no. [02:03] 2) Is this a desktop or laptop? What make/model? (Or did you build it yourself?) [02:03] laptop, acer aspire [02:06] any ideas? [02:07] screen just went pure white [02:08] nvm. was just a screensaver-type thing. hit a key and it went back [02:16] is it possible the stuff wasnt done instaling before i restarted it? wasntbdone [02:17] sorry about that [02:17] no problem [02:17] I was distracted by a boyfriend returning home. :) [02:17] aha thats fine [02:18] Okay, so I'm thinking it's likely one of a couple of things (there are unlikely things, too, but as the saying goes when you see hoofprints, look for horses before zebras) [02:19] mmkay. what do you suggest? [02:20] It's possible that you clicked something during the disk partition part (when you sound like you hit something by accident) that tried to put your boot partition on a part of your disk your BIOS isn't used to booting from...this isn't a default but I don't know what you clicked so you may have changed it. [02:20] You may have rebooted before the installer told you to, which would have caused the system not to have been marked as bootable. [02:21] You may have your BIOS set to UEFI only and had issues with the boot due to UEFI vs Legacy mode issues [02:21] These are the most likely things, so we're going to address them first. [02:22] i hit something else option but before i hit continue i saw that i didnt have any other os installed so i hit quit. i restarted too early i think [02:22] no i switched toblegacy mode [02:22] We're going to start by confirming that your BIOS settings are reasonable. Then, we'll do a re-install step-by-step so we're sure the options are right. Those eliminate the 80% most common options. [02:23] ok tell me what tobdo [02:24] Let's start by rebooting machine and hitting whatever button it says is for entering setup [02:24] (often Delete, Escape, F12, or similar) [02:25] ok. do you want boot options or system controls? [02:25] boot options first [02:25] ok [02:25] im here [02:26] (FYI, I have about 15 min left, but we can always pick up tomorrow. I'll be on IRC at work between meetings using the nick Hedgework, then on and off once I get home until bed) [02:26] ok [02:26] Okay, so check that nothing says "UEFI" or "EFI" [02:27] nope [02:27] You can UEFI boot Xubuntu, but it's not newbie-friendly and the main gain is about 15-20 seconds shaved off your boot time, so probably not worth it. [02:27] Good. [02:27] What disks are in your computer? [02:27] CD drive, one hard disk, anything else? even external hard drives or USB sticks count [02:27] just xubuntu [02:28] oh [02:28] the hdd. cd and network boot [02:28] atheros boot agent [02:29] Okay, I advise turning network boot off until you have a bootable system. It adds another moving part that we don't want to mess with. [02:30] how? its below the other two in boot priority atm [02:30] found it [02:31] k now what [02:31] okay, shouldn't be if it's lower priority [02:31] what? [02:31] i disabled network boot [02:31] ahh ok [02:31] yup [02:33] let's restart and boot to the CD then [02:34] okay :) [02:34] booting now [02:35] cool [02:35] sory for bothering you [02:35] just completing my install [02:36] You aren't bothering me :) [02:37] This is what I hang out here for...to help people learn. :) [02:37] keeping you away from your boyfriend then ;) [02:38] Meh, I'm a hacker he's used to it. ;) [02:39] aha thats great [02:39] We have a shared desk [02:39] it's kinda cute [02:40] hehe my girlfriend just moved to a different country for uni :/ [02:40] awww [02:40] Long-distance relationships are hard. [02:40] One of my boyfriends is all the way in PA, and I'm in IN :/ [02:40] ah were gonna skype everyday. but thats why i gotta get this fixed :p [02:40] gotcha [02:41] So, it booted to the CD, you picked install xubuntu, right? [02:41] one of your boyfriends? more than one? lol [02:41] is that where we are? [02:41] Yes, I have three. [02:41] One lives with me, one is about an hour away, and the other is about 1k miles away. [02:41] no still blue screen loading :/ [02:41] Okay. [02:42] Let me know when it's done or if it shows any error messages. [02:42] isnt that hard? [02:42] The distance, or maintaining three relationships? [02:42] okay i will [02:42] maintaining 3 relationships [02:43] Nah...at least from my perspective it's easier. I really don't grok how monogamous people do it...that would stress me the heck out. [02:43] grok? [02:43] sorry, Heinlein reference..."grok" means "to understand deeply and completely" [02:44] aha it is stressful sometimes. but i dont mind [02:45] it soundsblike the comp is doing the same thing over and over. is that normal? [02:45] Wilsonjl3_: not for this long... [02:45] hrm [02:45] hmm [02:46] what should i do? [02:46] Okay, I am about ten minutes late getting to bed...how about we turn it off and attack it whenever you are free tomorrow? [02:46] I want to help but if I'm tired and worried about getting up in the morning I'm not at my best anyhow. [02:46] ay npo [02:46] also, you have a private message :) [02:46] nobproblem. goodnght [02:47] how do i check it [02:47] Never used this IRC thing before - what do I do to get started getting help for xubuntu? [02:48] Wilsonjl3_: it varies by client, there's usually a tab or something to click [02:48] dwe08311: just ask your question and wait for an answer :) [02:50] The old laptop I'm using only has 512mb memory. Tried the lubuntu alternate CD - it fails when installing software (I think the downloads are failing). So, I decided to try xubuntu. No alternate CD, so used the mini iso. Installs, boots, then when I select tasksel and select xubuntu (or lubuntu for that matter) it fails immediately. I believe there is no network interface (wireless only available here), and I have no clue how t [02:52] BTW - I'm using a live boot of slackpuppy to connect here - it found the wireless and set it up ok. === bazhang__ is now known as bazhang [04:02] what is the name of the greeter used by xubuntu? [04:06] lightdm-gtk-greeter? Or do you mean the DM? If so, lightdm. [04:11] Anyone with any ideas on my earlier xubuntu question? [04:23] Unit193: hmm... i do mean greeter... what about lightdm-kde-greeter ? [04:23] it's yet another one? [04:24] Yep, search for 'lightdm greeter' and you'll see a few. GTK and unity I know are used (Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntustudio, Ubuntu), not sure if Kubuntu uses the KDE one, and I know the razorqt one was more of an example and will be, or is deprecated in LXQt. [04:25] (Or, moved to more likely.) [04:25] hmm I see.. [04:26] i've installed lightdm onto a clean ubuntu and I have no /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf file, isn't that weird? [04:26] i just have something called users.conf instead [04:28] No, it isn't. System installed ones go to /usr/share/lightdm/, and /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf is used to override those system settings. [04:31] Unit193: Oh i see... it all makes sense now. Sorry for asking lighdm questions here but apparently there's another channel for it but it's only got 2 people so I thought... [04:35] No problem. [10:20] hey hedge. you here? [12:04] I have problem with adobe flash plugin for firefox. although i have installed flashplugin-installer [12:09] I have problem with adobe flash plugin for firefox. although i have installed flashplugin-installer [12:23] hi all [12:23] My bluetooth device doesn't seem to be active, and there is no indicator [12:23] how can i check it and turn it on? The HW switch should be the same as for WiFi, but that doesn't switch BT on, just the WiFi [12:27] bosnjak , no idea [12:29] ask in #ubuntu [12:34] welcome aliensbrah [13:42] Hi Everybody [13:43] hi, groRG [13:43] I've been testing the last Xubuntu 14.04 version on my old Aspire One A110, and noticed that the wifi is not working at all [13:44] Is this case known? [13:44] groRG: Can you better define "not working at all" ? [13:44] the driver seems not to be loaded [13:44] the hardware is an old Atheros [13:44] it worked fine on the previous version, the 12.04 [13:46] is there any big change in the way the wifi is handled? [13:47] It's still NetworkManager based. [13:47] humm, but this time the Network manager doesn't see any wifi hardware [13:48] it reacts as if there was only the RJ45 connection available [13:49] Okay, can you confirm via "ifconfig -a" that the system really isn't identifying it, and it's not just the nm interface being grumpy? [13:49] with this command the wlan0 appears, but of course without any ip [13:50] that doesn't sound like a xubuntu specific problem [13:51] groRG: Okay, so try "iwconfig" now to see if it's listed as a wireless device (given the naming, I suspect it is) [13:51] those old Acers had a bios bug where the wifi could get permanently disabled. try resetting bios to defaults [13:51] ali1234: probably not, but we're here and I am procrastinating on work emails :P [13:52] and make sure you didn't flick the hardware disable switch [13:52] check rfkill too [13:53] HedgeMage: oh yeah i'm not complaining about offtopic or anything, just saying. [13:53] :) [13:53] iwconfig still gives a wlan0 [13:54] xubuntu is at the end of the day just a different UI on top of ubuntu. the drivers are all the same [13:54] !! [13:54] I don't understand this time it seems to see the wifi around [13:55] does this command make the wlan "react" anyway? [13:55] it shouldn't do [13:55] sometimes it just takes a while for the wlan to see beacons [13:55] if it already knows what to connect to, that should work faster [13:56] groRG: "iwconfig" on its own just tells you status [13:56] bosnjak: also you should check rfkill, it handles both bluetooth and wifi hardware and software kill switches [13:56] groRG: However, some Atheros cards have power management independent of the system, so maybe querying it woke it up? I thought that was only 1990s-era cards, though. [13:56] ok then the second test is alright, I just don't understand why the 1rst time it did react like this [13:57] well network manager should be querying it all the time for access points anyway... [13:57] well thanks very much for your help [13:58] and sorry if it was not a xubuntu problem [13:59] wifi is always troublesome... i try to never use it [14:00] I'll look at "rfkill", the next time the wifi seems ko... I wish I could avoid it too [14:07] groRG: Don't be sorry. I, personally, am willing to give wide latitude to polite people like you, and in favor of a much harsher policy re: booting rude/entitled ones :P [14:45] Hi guys! [14:46] I have been doing some research on the Firefox package for Xubuntu... [14:46] Is it the same package as in the Linux Mint repo? [14:46] vegavega no reason it should be; different distros. [14:46]