[00:51] <daker> popey: i am also seeing the same issue(ofono) on the screenshots
[00:51] <daker> mhall119: bug 1341893
[00:53] <sergiusens> cjwatson: do we have a stable interface for figuring out if a click package is installed or removed (by poll/queries and/or events)?
[00:54] <cjwatson> sergiusens: usually hooks are suitable
[00:54] <cjwatson> sergiusens: you're meant to catch up with the current state of the system, rather than trying to track individual events
[00:56] <mhall119> daker: thanks, can you send that to dbarth and/or bzoltan2
[00:56] <Kohelet> out of curiosity, how much of ubuntu touch is reliant on android? Is it just the kernel or is it more than that?
[00:56] <Kohelet> I'm trying to port UT to the Xperia Z Ultra and I figure it should be easy since the kernel source for the Z Ultra is all open source
[00:56] <mhall119> Kohelet: it uses the android kernel patches and some drivers to run on Android hardware, that's about it these days
[00:57] <mhall119> Kohelet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting has information to help you with porting
[00:57] <sergiusens> cjwatson: I guess hooks are the proper way now that you mention it
[00:58] <Kohelet> mhall119: thanks, I've seen the porting guide and it's not quite clear
[00:58] <Kohelet> once I get a working build I'm hoping to make a better one to share with people who want to build for other devices
[00:59] <sergiusens> cjwatson: hooks can be a bit overboard though; I just want something like an API to do APP_ID.isInstalled() and a dbus signal or similar to catch them
[01:01] <cjwatson> sergiusens: You can check for the current state using libclick, but I don't expect to add dbus signals for installation.  I think most such things are going to need to make sure to catch up later anyway, with the exception of the scope that's actually doing the installation and that seems to work already ...
[01:23] <crocket> Will ubuntu phone be released this year?
[01:23] <crocket> hello?
[01:24] <sarnold> crocket: both meizu and bq are hoping to release ubuntu-touch based phones this year
[01:24] <crocket> meizu and bq?
[01:25] <crocket> sarnold, Are they telecome companies?
[01:25] <crocket> sarnold, I hope to purchase an empty ubuntu phone.
[01:25] <crocket> like nexus 5.
[01:25] <sergiusens> cjwatson: thanks
[01:25]  * sergiusens reads libclick's hdr
[01:26] <sarnold> crocket: meizu and bq are handset makers -- see http://www.bqreaders.com/ and http://en.meizu.com/
[01:29] <crocket> sarnold, good
[01:36] <crocket> sarnold, Will ubuntu phones come with mobile p2p network capabilities?
[01:37] <sarnold> crocket: I don't know what that is
[01:37] <crocket> sarnold, Now, smartphones can directly connect among themselves.
[01:37] <crocket> sarnold, Now, smartphones can't directly connect among themselves.
[01:37] <crocket> can't
[01:38] <ryukafalz> ...bluetooth? :P
[01:38] <crocket> Smartphones don't establish network routes based on availability of nearby smartphones.
[01:38] <ryukafalz> ah, okay, that's a bit more ambitious
[01:38] <crocket> Smartphones should be able to route packets via nearby smartphones.
[01:39] <crocket> A routing protocol should adapt to availability of nearby smartphones.
[01:39] <crocket> It's a wireless mesh network.
[01:39] <sarnold> crocket: it's ubuntu; you can apt-get install batmand if you want. it probably won't get you cellular data services (sms or phone) but ought to work for data things..
[01:39] <ryukafalz> mesh networking is not something that is currently in ubuntu touch by default, but that's likely mostly because nobody's currently working on it
[01:40] <crocket> sarnold, Can I install batmand without rooting it?
[01:40] <ryukafalz> I don't know about future released phones, but currently... you have root
[01:40] <crocket> huh
[01:40] <crocket> fuck
[01:40] <crocket> If I have to root, that's not going to help much.
[01:41] <sarnold> crocket: we're trying to change the world :) think less "phone" and more "converged computing device"
[01:41] <crocket> sarnold, Mesh network is not just about phones.
[01:41] <sarnold> crocket: exactly
[01:41] <ryukafalz> I mean, I hope manufacturers will be smart enough to not lock down their ubuntu phones, but I can't tell what they're going to do months down the line
[01:42] <ryukafalz> crocket: You might be interested in cjdns and project meshnet
[01:42] <sarnold> ryukafalz: indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if some third-party DRM service gets in a fit if you've got the ability to use sudo, but we're all aware that a "converged computing device" without administrative privileges is just not that interesting.
[01:42] <crocket> BATMAN will hopefully kill joker(telecome).
[01:43] <crocket> sarnold, It's more about social status.
[01:43] <ryukafalz> sarnold: Yep. I'm sure someone will try it though, and the average consumer might not even care D:
[01:43] <crocket> If manufacturers disregard peons, they'll lock down ubuntu phones.
[01:44] <ryukafalz> I mean, look at most people now... "Admin access to my own phone? Why would I need that?"
[01:44] <crocket> ryukafalz, With mesh network, we can make things like location-based twitter.
[01:44] <crocket> Location-based communications.
[01:44] <ryukafalz> crocket: You're preaching to the choir here buddy :P
[01:44] <crocket> ryukafalz, meaning?
[01:45] <ryukafalz> Meaning I already have thought about and agree with everything you're saying ;)
[01:45] <crocket> ryukafalz, ok
[01:45] <ryukafalz> and am somewhat active in local mesh networking projects
[01:45] <ryukafalz> (though they've kinda died down lately =/)
[01:46] <crocket> ryukafalz, Why don't you make an ubuntu phone with mesh network capabilities?
[01:47] <ryukafalz> Cell phone mesh networks tend to require a critical mass of phones that support it, else your message never makes it to its destination
[01:47] <crocket> duh
[01:47] <sarnold> ryukafalz: heh, would you just use uucp for hop-based message passing? :)
[01:47] <ryukafalz> The problem is getting there... :P
[01:48] <ryukafalz> sarnold: Hmm, hadn't thought of using UUCP, that's an interesting idea
[01:48] <ryukafalz> Return of the newsgroups!
[01:49] <sarnold> hehe
[01:49] <ryukafalz> In any case, I'm more active in the Sailfish and Nemo communities than Ubuntu, this conversation just caught my eye :P
[01:50]  * ryukafalz will definitely be trying out various meshnet things on Linux-based phones though
[02:28] <jarreed0> I have a idea for a Ubuntu Touch software. I have already been told by a few people that is something they would like to have built into their Ubuntu Smartphones. This is my first project and it is something I want to seen get down. I do not think I can do this by myself. So I was hoping some developers will check out my repo, https://github.com/jarreed0/UbuntuTiltControls, and help contribute with it. The software is to lo
[02:34] <crocket> ryukafalz, Without mesh network, it's difficult to have fun.
[02:34] <crocket> because of state intervention.
[08:24] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Gummi Worm Day! :-D
[10:21] <asac> ogra: where are our seed branches again?
[10:22] <ogra_> asac, lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.utopic/
[10:54] <popey> happy birthday Saviq
[10:54] <Saviq> o/
[11:10] <jgdx> brendand, are we going to use http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-network/trunk.14.10/view/head:/tests/autopilot/indicator_network/tests/test_unlock_sim.py#L65 for tests in systems ettings?
[11:11] <jgdx> i.e. PhonesimManager
[11:31] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: hey, on the latest image I seem to be getting an out of memory when navigating to m.lavoz.com.ar http://paste.ubuntu.com/7798090/
[11:31] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: is that a known issue? was working fine on yesterday's image; this is a fresh boot btw
[11:31] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, not an known issue, let me check
[11:32] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: only happens on that site so far
[11:33] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, can you reproduce reliably?
[11:33] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: pretty much; type the address and it starts to load and render and then crashes
[11:33] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: not sure if my history has anything to do with this
[11:34] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: but I go there every morning :)
[11:34] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, it shouldn’t, but you never know… I’m testing here on N7 and I’m not seeing this
[11:35]  * sergiusens tries to clean up history (saving it in the process)
[11:35] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, would you mind filing a bug so that someone else with a N4 can take a look?
[11:35] <sergiusens> sure
[11:36] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: after doing mv ~/.local/share/webbrowser-app . it works again
[11:36] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: so it may not be site related but history related
[11:36] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: I'll upload my database and mark the bug private
[11:37] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, perfect, thanks, I’ll take a look as soon as you send me the bug report
[11:39] <brendand> jgdx, yeah for dual sim testing
[11:45] <jgdx> brendand, is anyone on your team/you able to set that up?
[11:45] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: my local webbroser dir is 82MB compressed so it might take a bit :)
[11:46] <brendand> jgdx, i guess i can have a look at it
[11:47] <jgdx> brendand, thanks
[11:58] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, that’s a lot, I’m curious to see what takes up that much space
[12:23] <ogra_> sergiusens, hmm, why is nuntium running in devices without any GSM or 3G ... we should make it depend on a running ofono
[12:39] <sergiusens> ogra_: complicated; I had that and steve told me it had potentials for races
[12:40] <sergiusens> ogra_: I guess we can make the upstart job depend on the property just like ofono
[12:40] <sergiusens> ogra_: problem is, being a session service; I can miss out on signals thrown by the system
[12:41] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webbrowser-app/+bug/1342077
[12:42] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, it’s too private :) I can’t access it
[12:42] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: let me try and subscribe you, I guess you haven't been added as  a triager for webbrowser app
[12:43] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: see if you can access now
[12:43] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, yup, thanks
[12:43] <sergiusens> ogra_: how's adb push/pull going to work with adb as phablet?
[12:43] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: great!
[12:47] <nik90_> charles: I am adding Bug 1337917 to indicator-datetime. The alarm volume (which you exposed via dbus) should be independant of the phone's global volume
[12:48] <nik90_> charles: As a default, may be we should set the alarm volume to a reasonable value which will then be picked up by the clock app
[12:48] <nik90_> charles: this way, at no times will the alarm be muted unless the user explicitly set the alarm volume really low.
[12:52] <brendand> jgdx, which panel is the dual-sim stuff being implemented in - is it Phone?
[12:52] <brendand> jgdx, or Cellular?
[12:53] <ogra_> sergiusens, the same way as before ...
[12:54] <ogra_> (abd push/pull)
[12:54] <jgdx> brendand, cellular at least
[12:55] <ogra_> sergiusens, oh, with one minor differentce ... it defaults to ~ ... so adb pull foo.sh will pull /home/phablet/foo.sh
[13:15] <sergiusens> ogra_: ok, how am I supposed to push to /cache/recovery?
[13:16] <sergiusens> ogra_: I guess this can bring in the requirement that you need to be in recovery; but let's come do that as a last option
[13:16] <ogra_> sergiusens, hmm, there seems to be a group for that (2001) ... i giess we need to add the pahblet user
[13:17] <sergiusens> ogra_: ah, these solvable answers sound good :-)
[13:18] <ogra_> well, i have to check what that group id stands for ... i hope it isnt "shell" i tried to avoid that one
[13:22] <ogra_> mdeslaur, i think a (security) look over https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/livecd-rootfs/no-password/+merge/225560 would be good
[13:23] <ogra_> i wonder if "passwd -l" wouldnt be nicer ...
[13:24] <mterry> ogra_, passwd -d is what AccountsService does/expects when you use their API for setting no-password
[13:24] <Saviq> rsalveti, hmm, how did it happen that https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/qtubuntu-gles/utopic is outdated vs. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtubuntu-gles ?
[13:24] <ogra_> mterry, yeah, but empty means you can echo some crypted empty string to sudo and get access
[13:25] <ogra_> mterry, see the casper code ...
[13:25] <mterry> ogra_, or call passwd and set a new password then sudo, yeah
[13:25] <ogra_> mterry, -l will completely block passwords
[13:25] <mdeslaur> if -l works, I'd probably prefer that
[13:25] <Saviq> rsalveti, another thing I was thinking... couldn't -gles be packaging-only branches?
[13:25] <rsalveti> Saviq: importer probably failed to import the latest package
[13:25] <mdeslaur> I'm not sure how that would impact the phone though
[13:26] <rsalveti> Saviq: this is an auto-importer branch
[13:26] <mdeslaur> oh, wait "Users with a locked password are not allowed to change their password."
[13:26] <ogra_> mdeslaur, it shouldnt
[13:26] <mterry> ogra_, mdeslaur: I'm not sure how well that would work on the phone.  We'd need sudo rights to unlock, right?
[13:26] <rsalveti> Saviq: sure, if you want to create bzr branches, just a packaging one should be enough
[13:26] <mterry> ogra_, mdeslaur: which means we'd need to patch AccountsService to do the unlocking for us
[13:26] <mdeslaur> meh, no good.... -d it is
[13:26] <mterry> ogra_, mdeslaur: much like it does "passwd -d" for us today
[13:26] <Saviq> rsalveti, yeah I know, but just for maintenance reasons... it's really weird to do what we're doing with those -gles....
[13:26] <ogra_> mterry, sudo rights for unlocking ?
[13:27] <ogra_> mterry, why would that be ...
[13:27] <mterry> ogra_, like, root would need to unlock the user again, right?
[13:27] <ogra_> oh, yeah
[13:27] <rsalveti> Saviq: I can create branches for all of them if you prefer that way
[13:27] <ogra_> right, if you cant set the passwd -l isnt good
[13:27] <Saviq> rsalveti, can we do anything for the auto-imported branch?
[13:27] <rsalveti> if it makes easier when landing stuff
[13:27] <ogra_> otoh empty isnt so great either
[13:28] <rsalveti> let's just create a packaging branch then, and should work better
[13:28] <mterry> ogra_, I thought we'd talked about this on the ML.  I thought the plan was to lock down adb rather than passwords on the device
[13:28] <rsalveti> is there any package you want the branch to be created first?
[13:28] <mdeslaur> ogra_: it's not ideal, but it reflects reality on the device for now
[13:28] <Saviq> rsalveti, qtubuntu, yeah
[13:28] <mdeslaur> we definitely need to think of a strategy for the future
[13:29] <rsalveti> Saviq: ok
[13:29] <frecel> popey:  I cought my phone do the clock thing a few more times yesterday on r130
[13:29] <ogra_> mterry, adb checks for "password matches username", "password empty" and "password locked"  ... it will refuse to start if either of these is true
[13:29] <mterry> ogra_, cool
[13:29] <frecel> popey: It seems like sometimes when you turn the screen on it doesn't actually refresh anything for some seconds  or until you touch it
[13:29] <mdeslaur> ogra_: sounds good enough
[13:30] <mdeslaur> no password isn't worse than hard coding it to "phablet"
[13:30] <mterry> heh, right
[13:30] <ogra_> yeah
[13:31] <mdeslaur> the only thing accessible is adb and ssh, if adb checks for no password, and ssh is forced to use keys, I think we're fine
[13:31] <ogra_> what does sudo do if it is empty ?
[13:31] <mterry> ogra_, it won't let you sudo
[13:31] <ogra_> good
[13:31]  * ogra_ wasnt sure
[13:31]  * mdeslaur wasn't sure either
[13:32] <mterry> ogra_, but again... you can just call passwd and set one
[13:32] <ogra_> right
[13:32] <ogra_> and you actually have to for having adb access ... i doubt anyone will script much via the terminal app :=
[13:32] <ogra_> :)
[13:33] <Saviq> ogra_, while I have you here, does germinate look at proposed pocket, too?
[13:33] <mterry> yeah, and they can just passwd for now if they want it.  The UI for setting a password is coming
[13:33] <Saviq> ogra_, just wondering about how we'll need to order / depend
[13:33] <ogra_> mdeslaur, ssh isnat accessible without being able to "sudo start ssh" or "sudo setprop ... "
[13:33] <ogra_> Saviq, i dont think it looks at proposed, not sure ... ask cjwatson
[13:34] <mdeslaur> ogra_: good
[13:34] <cjwatson> Saviq: that depends how germinate is run
[13:34] <cjwatson> Saviq: what exactly are you talking about?
[13:34] <ogra_> cjwatson, i guess at meta package generation
[13:34] <Saviq> cjwatson, yes, that
[13:34] <cjwatson> only the release pocket
[13:35] <Saviq> cjwatson, we'll be NEWing qtmir soon, and we'll need it seeded in ubuntu-touch, just trying to find out about the order
[13:35] <mterry> ogra_, so are we OK with landing that branch then?
[13:35] <Saviq> ok, that should be fine
[13:35] <cjwatson> though of course you can hack it
[13:35] <Saviq> nah that's fine
[13:35] <Saviq> cjwatson, ogra_, thanks!
[13:35] <ogra_> Saviq, i usualyl do a direct upload of my NEW packages ... once they (and their deps if there are any) are reviwed and approved i seed them
[13:35] <cjwatson> "dists: utopic utopic-proposed" if you need that
[13:35] <cjwatson> (in update.cfg)
[13:36] <ogra_> mterry, i'm trying to thonk of things that will break, did you dicauss with the CI team about the lab devices etc ?
[13:36] <cjwatson> But right, usually you wouldn't add something to the metapackage until after it's landed
[13:36] <ogra_> s/thonk/think/
[13:36] <cjwatson> Might get more complicated if it's taking over something from another source
[13:37] <ogra_> i dont think it is that complex here ... just a simple new package we want seeded later
[13:37] <ogra_> we just dont have any process to reflect NEWing easily in the train
[13:38] <mterry> ogra_, about CI, yeah they mentioned it was all "adb shell" calls and then sudoing to reduce privileges, not adb shelling and then trying to use sudo to raise privileges.  Right, fginther?
[13:38] <ogra_> mterry, then we should be fine ... (only once my stuff lands the world will fall apart then :P )
[13:39] <mterry> ogra_, right  :)  I want to get my stuff in before then so I don't get associated with that fallout  ;)
[13:39] <ogra_> haha
[13:40] <ogra_> mterry, btw, that change deserves a lot of noise on the ML, wiki etc ... to make people aware they cant use phablet phablet anymore as documented
[13:40] <mterry> ogra_, yes, if this lands, I will respond to my original email to the ML about the change, saying it happened
[13:41] <mterry> ogra_, wiki is interesting.  I wonder how many places we talk about the default password
[13:41] <ogra_> heh, no idea
[13:41] <ogra_> but it is mentioned once at least ... i know i got the info from there back when i started :)
[13:42] <ogra_> i guess a fulltext search for "phablet" wont help much :P
[13:42] <mterry> right...
[13:42] <mterry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes
[13:42] <ogra_> yeah, i think thats authoritative
[13:42] <mterry> But that's for 13.10, not 14.04
[13:43] <ogra_> yep, nobody took care for it since first creation
[13:43] <mterry> ogra_, but I'm wondering if we want to update it now or wait for 14.04
[13:43] <ogra_> we should update it with RTM
[13:44] <ogra_> so that it matches the devices that get sold
[13:44] <mterry> ogra_, right, that's what I was mentally thinking with 14.04
[13:44]  * mterry isn't use to out-of-cycle releases
[13:44] <ogra_> well, it is 14.10 ... 0.5 ...
[13:44] <ogra_> or so
[13:44] <mterry> ogra_, oh man!
[13:45] <mterry> ogra_, what year is it even
[13:45] <mterry> I forgot we released 14.04
[13:45] <ogra_> 14.10/2
[13:45] <ogra_> :)
[14:03] <fginther> mterry, that actually sounds backwards.  AIUI, all adb access will enter as the phablet user and there fore using sudo to raise to root
[14:03] <mterry> fginther, that's a future change, but yes
[14:05] <mterry> fginther, I was more interested in how it works today in order to land this one change that removes sudo by default for the phablet user
[14:05] <mterry> fginther, we can adjust as needed once adb changes too
[14:05] <fginther> mterry, right, today adb enters as root
[14:05] <mterry> fginther, right.  And more importantly, CI never does any weird 'adb shell, sudo as phablet, then sudo as root' stuff?
[14:10] <piggz> hi ... ive just built my first ubuntu rom, and as predicted it doesnt work ... i used cm10.1 sources and built  boot.img and system.img ... i had to strip out adb and libcrypto from boot.img as the boot partition is only 4mb.  With them it was >5mb, now its 2.4mb
[14:10] <piggz> i flashed the boot and system using adb, and have a lovely boot loop
[14:10] <piggz> any way of debugging?
[14:16] <mhall119> bzoltan1: alexabreu: can we get this bug escalated so it can be fixed soon: https://bugs.launchpad.net/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/+bug/1341893
[14:17] <alexabreu> bzoltan1, ^ do you know if Bejamin worked on it?
[14:17] <alexabreu> Benjamin
[14:21] <bzoltan1> alexabreu: mhall119: the real remote run configuration for HTML5 project is work in progress. We plan to land it tomorrow. The local run configuration has this --inspector. I will check with zbenjamin for the same in the remote mode
[14:21]  * zbenjamin is here
[14:23]  * bzoltan1 unleashes zbenjamin
[14:24] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: mhall119: the --inspector switch is only used on the phone when its in your desktop file
[14:24] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: mhall119: since we now package and install the click package we cannot just add switches to the exec line
[14:24] <alexabreu> zbenjamin, whats the plan for debugging apps?
[14:25] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: for debugging apps there is a debug helper script that enabled qml and c++ debugging if its selected in the run configuration in QtC
[14:27] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: the click package then is packaged in a special way
[14:27] <alexabreu> zbenjamin, any plans to add html5 support, why was it left out?
[14:28] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: because html5 had no run configuration UI in QtCreator, it was just executed with the Ctrl+F12 shortcut
[14:29] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: we would need a extra setting for that also in the Runconfigs, so the user can check/uncheck it
[14:29] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: also we have no debugger support build in QtC for that and tbh i didn't even know about that switch :/
[14:30] <mhall119> is there any reason we would ever want to launch an app from QtCreator without debug support?
[14:30] <alexabreu> zbenjamin, what about launching on the desktop? ... we should at least hav ethe --inspector there
[14:30] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: yeah i can add that
[14:31] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: it is already there it seems
[14:33] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: i get that when running a html5 project locally: Inspector server started successfully. Try pointing a WebKit browser to http://192.168.178.20:9221
[14:41] <zbenjamin> mhall119: if we always start with debugging enabled , we can just add the --inspector switch to the desktop file
[14:54] <alexabreu> zbenjamin, mhall119 which I think is acceptable for now ....
[14:54] <alexabreu> zbenjamin, do you want a mr?
[14:55] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: as long as you only change the desktop file in the template we should be fine, i have a MR pending which touched a lot of code :)
[14:56] <alexabreu> zbenjamin, thats the idea yes, just the template for now
[14:56] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: then go for it if you have time :)
[14:57] <alexabreu> I dont but its not the hardest mr in the world so
[14:58] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: you never know ;)
[15:01] <oSoMoN> sergiusens, I can’t reproduce the crash on my N7, even with your cache :/
[15:03] <alexabreu> zbenjamin, https://code.launchpad.net/~abreu-alexandre/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/add-html5-inspector-flag-to-desktop/+merge/226858
[15:04] <zbenjamin> alexabreu: thx, do we need that for HTML5 as well?
[15:04] <alexabreu> zbenjamin, sorry yes too fast on this
[15:11] <sergiusens> oSoMoN: that's a bummer :-/
[15:18] <sil2100> boiko: how's the branch review going? :)
[15:36] <jhodapp> boiko: do you have a package built for the telephony-service fix?
[15:36] <jhodapp> boiko: for armhf
[15:38] <ogra_> jhodapp, there should be a silo soon, once the code got reviewed and happroved
[15:38] <jhodapp> ogra_: yeah, I'd just like it right now so that I am not waiting a lot for my audio recording task
[15:39] <jhodapp> ogra_: it failed to run the tests when doing a debuild locally
[15:39] <ogra_> i guess you will have to build yourself
[15:39] <ogra_> but once your package is done there might also be a silo ready :)
[15:40] <jhodapp> hopefully
[15:43] <piggz> zbenjamin: hi, where do i know you from?
[15:46] <zbenjamin> piggz: the #qt channel probably?
[16:01] <boiko_> sil2100: sorry, I was out for lunch, finishing the testplan now.
[16:01] <boiko_> jhodapp: http://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/telephony-service-utopic-armhf-ci/76/artifact/work/output/*zip*/output.zip
[16:02] <sil2100> boiko: thanks!
[16:09] <jhodapp> boiko: that works great, thanks
[16:09] <boiko> jhodapp: nice! :)
[16:09] <jhodapp> ogra_: the fix works well
[16:09] <ogra_> yay
[16:09] <jhodapp> ogra_: bootup is fast again, and camera-app comes right up
[16:10] <sil2100> \o/
[16:10] <sil2100> SHIP IT!
[16:10] <ogra_> ++
[16:10] <sil2100> boiko: could you prepare a landing for it?
[16:11] <boiko> sil2100: yep, I'll do right now
[16:55] <mterry> ogra_, in addition to that no-password branch, I'm going to add libnss-extrausers to seed and look into enabling that
[16:56] <frecel> will ubuntu touch execute anyhing that the desktop file points at or are there restrictions?
[16:56] <frecel> mhall119: ^^
[16:56] <ogra_> mterry, was on my list anyway, but dont hold back ... note that we need slangasek's adduser fix first though
[16:56] <mterry> ogra_, yeah
[16:56] <ogra_> if you cant change the password we cant land that (yet)
[16:56] <mhall119> frecel: it will only execute what it's apparmor policy allows
[16:56]  * slangasek puts his hands on his head and walks in a circle
[16:56] <ogra_> lol
[16:57] <mterry> ogra_, what do you mean about changing the password?
[16:57] <ogra_> mterry, /etc/shadow is readonly
[16:57] <mterry> right
[16:57] <ogra_> passwd wont work on it
[16:57] <mterry> sure, ok
[16:57] <frecel> mhall119: I see, I'm just looking into building Ubuntu Touch apps with Ecere SDK
[16:58] <ogra_> which is why we can land *any* of these password related bits only after we have the ability to use adduser on libnss-extrausers
[16:58] <ogra_> the phablet user account needs to go into that instead of /etc/passwd|group|shadow
[16:59] <ogra_> (at build time)
[16:59] <mterry> ogra_, if worse came to worse, couldn't we just hack up having the phablet user be added in libnss-extrausers space even without proper adduser support?  Surely we can work some sed magic or something
[17:00] <ogra_> mterry, and what do the devs do then ? you need to be able to use passwd and adduser to change the PW or groups
[17:00] <concord> Any ideas on Ubuntu Phone?
[17:01] <mterry> ogra_, I assumed libnss-extrausers hooked into PAM such that passwd worked.  I don't actually know how it does its magic
[17:01] <concord> Will it be available in 2014?
[17:01] <ogra_> mterry, passwd goes through PAM to set your password ? that would be news to me
[17:01] <ogra_> concord, thats the plan ... on two devices
[17:02] <mterry> ogra_, yeah, that's how I'm used to it working
[17:02] <ogra_> mterry, passwd somply operates on /etc/passwd ... shadow hooks in here and intercepts when you set your password and the shadow db is enabled, i dont think pam is anywhere in that picture
[17:02] <mterry> ogra_, but your point about group membership is true.  we'd still need that to work
[17:03] <ogra_> right
[17:03] <mterry> ogra_, I think you're wrong about PAM/passwd
[17:03] <mterry> ogra_, changing PAM stack configuration like I do in the no-password branch to change minlen=4 or remove obscure will affect passwd
[17:04] <mterry> ogra_, there is a /etc/pam.d/passwd file that passwd uses to configure its pam stack
[17:04] <ogra_> sure ...
[17:04] <ogra_> but in the end it still needs to write to the right files
[17:05] <mterry> ogra_, right...  I guess I had assumed it did that via a PAM module, but maybe it just directly does it after authenticating via PAM.  In which case not only the adduser package, but the shadow package need updating
[17:06] <ogra_> lets just get all bits and pieces into place proper first ...
[17:07] <slangasek> what about the shadow package?
[17:07] <mterry> Right...  That's what we're talking about  :)
[17:07] <slangasek> 'passwd' from the shadow package uses PAM to write out passwords
[17:07] <ogra_> ah
[17:07] <ogra_> so it would end up in the right file if pam is properly configured ?
[17:08] <slangasek> other bits of the shadow suite, that manipulate things like e.g. account expiry, write directly to /etc/shadow; but I assume those are not at issue here
[17:08] <slangasek> ogra_: yes
[17:09] <mterry> ogra_, ok, well I'll go back to fixing up last nits in the UI layer  :)
[17:09] <ogra_> :)
[17:09] <mterry> ogra_, libnss-extrausers can wait a sec
[17:09] <ogra_> well, we might need it for other stuff too
[17:12] <ogra_> slangasek, there is quite some flaw in the system-image idea WRT system users ... we will need to address that too somehow ... (UID/GID on two system images can differ for any daemon users since they are created dynamically at install time of the package)
[17:12] <ogra_> an upgrade could overwrite /etc/passwd|group with the new IDs and break the whole system
[17:15] <slangasek> hmm
[17:16] <slangasek> stgraber: ^^ do you already know about this issue?
[17:16] <ogra_> there is a bug somewhere that i cant find anymore
[17:16] <ogra_> lool, do you remember ^^^^ ?
[17:18] <stgraber> slangasek: it's been mentioned as a potential problem, though I don't beieve I've seen a bug reporting a breakage yet (might have missed it). The way to resolve this for good isn't obvious either...
[17:18] <ogra_> stgraber, no, it is a bug describing the potential problem ... there is no breakage yet
[17:18] <slangasek> stgraber: if /etc/passwd or /etc/group is in the update list, back it up, diff it, and recursively chown/chmod?
[17:18] <ogra_> at least none i know of
[17:19] <stgraber> I guess the best workaround at the moment would be to ship boot hooks which chown/chgrp the relevant writable paths to the new value on first boot after update
[17:19] <ogra_> slangasek, wow ... that could get heavy
[17:19] <slangasek> stgraber: (FSVO "recursively chmod" that is resistant to ordering bugs if you have overlapping uid changes)
[17:19] <slangasek> ogra_: it's a small filesystem
[17:19] <ogra_> on a slow disk :)
[17:19] <stgraber> ogra_: not really, since only paths on the writable partition would be affected by such a change, so not very many files at the moment
[17:20] <slangasek> stgraber: oh?  "only paths on the writable partition"> because anything in the read-only image gets the uid/gid update on unpack?
[17:20] <ogra_> would they ? do we carry fs permissions over on the redonal one ?
[17:20] <stgraber> slangasek: correct
[17:20] <ogra_> *readonly
[17:21] <slangasek> stgraber, ogra_: alternative solution: grab the list of all known dynamically-allocated uids/gids; prepopulate them in the livefs build hook so that they're always the same; fail the build if there are any new entries added at build time
[17:21] <stgraber> any file where the stat struct doesn't match ends up in the delta tarball, so a change of uid/gid will trigger the inclusion of the file
[17:21] <ogra_> ah, that makes it all look a lot more trivial
[17:22] <ogra_> i think we're fine with a book hook then
[17:22] <stgraber> slangasek: I like that alternative solution, that'd avoid any delay on the client side, minimize delta size and makes sure we don't miss anything when we're adding packages (as a new user is usually an indication we need to setup a writable path too)
[17:24]  * ogra_ doesnt like that it is more work ... beyond that it sounds better, yeah :) )
[17:25] <slangasek> yes, also a legitimate addition of a system user is going to be an infrequent event... whereas there's a risk that an added system user coming in might actually be a sign of a wrong dependency
[17:25] <slangasek> since system user ~= daemon, and we don't want more daemons sneaking onto the phone
[17:27] <concord> ogra_: any idea which devices, from whom?
[17:27] <ogra_> concord, BQ and Meizu
[17:27] <concord> ogra_: thanks, I'll google it
[17:28]  * sil2100 looks at boiko from the corner
[17:28] <sil2100> (no pressure on silo 009!)
[17:29] <boiko> sil2100: :D
[17:29] <sil2100> ;)
[17:29] <sil2100> Really, no pressure, just wanted to poke how it's going ;p
[17:31] <sil2100> boiko: oh, I meant silo 002!
[17:31]  * sil2100 has problems with silo numbers today
[17:32] <boiko> sil2100: there you go :)
[17:32] <sil2100> YAAAY!
[17:32] <sil2100> :>
[17:32] <mhall119> frecel: you can build Ubuntu apps in any editor or IDE you choose, though obviously we recommend QtCreator as that's where we've put all of our effort
[17:32]  * ogra_ uses vi :)
[17:34] <frecel> I actually use vim or qtcreator for developing apps for UT but I'm in Ottawa for Linux Symposium now and I just sat on a talk about ecere SDK and wondered how hard would it be to get ecere applications to run on ubuntu touch
[18:02] <jgdx> what are the recurring local system-settings ci failures? Any details on that?
[18:03] <dobey> frecel: ecore? like Enlightenment?
[18:03] <dobey> or what is ecere?
[18:04] <frecel> dobey: http://ecere.org/
[18:04] <seb128> pmcgowan, you can downgrade packages/install the old debs to get a backtrace
[18:05] <pmcgowan> seb128, how? I have the package that crashed but not the symbols
[18:05] <frecel> dobey: the eC language compiles to C so now I'm trying to compile C for armhf and run it on touch
[18:05] <seb128> pmcgowan, get the ddeb from http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/universe/u/ubuntu-system-settings/
[18:06] <pmcgowan> seb128, I am told its not there and only see the latest version
[18:06] <dobey> frecel: well i guess if it supported Mir as a display back-end, and GLES for the 3D, i guess you could use it, sure
[18:06] <seb128> pmcgowan, using apt?
[18:06] <pmcgowan> yes
[18:06] <seb128> pmcgowan, the apt index lists only currently, click on the url and see that there is more
[18:06] <pmcgowan> seb128, oh!
[18:06] <pmcgowan> that was my question esrlier
[18:07] <seb128> pmcgowan, you can wget & dpkg -i ddebs from there
[18:07] <pmcgowan> indeed
[18:08] <dobey> the screenshots on that web page seem very 90s-ish though
[18:09] <dobey> hmm
[18:10] <frecel> dobey: I know, but that is what happens when the dev team consists of just developers and no designers :D
[18:11] <dobey> not always
[18:11] <pmcgowan> seb128, thanks, efforting that now
[18:11]  * dobey needs to write a book or something perhaps
[18:12] <lotuspsychje> any sign of the meizu touch yet?
[18:12] <seb128> pmcgowan, yw!
[18:12] <lotuspsychje> they showed off that meizu phone with touch on asia expo recently
[18:12] <frecel> dobey: I just found out about it's existence today and I think it has some sane solutions for developing games to run on multiple platforms so I figured let's check if I can make it work with UT
[18:13] <dobey> frecel: SDL might be a better option
[18:14] <dobey> frecel: SDL 2.0 already has Mir support, and it's supported in the Steam kit as well, i think
[18:16] <lool> ogra_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-image/+bug/1332538 ?
[18:16] <ogra_> stgraber, ^^^
[18:16] <lool> slangasek, stgraber: ^
[18:16] <slangasek> lool: ok
[18:16] <lool> there's discussion of a solution
[18:16] <frecel> dobey: I know, I'm not even doing it because I want to develop games with it, I just feel like hacking on something
[18:21] <pmcgowan> seb128, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7799686/
[18:21] <lotuspsychje> anywhere i can edit a file to keep brightness 100% in touch?
[18:22] <pmcgowan> not helpful
[18:44] <Guest92339> Hello, can anyone compile this Qt app for ununtu touch? it is a multi-encrypting messenger optimized for mobile: http://sourceforge.net/projects/goldbug/files/goldbug-im_WIN_0.9.07/
[18:44] <Guest92339> would be nice to have a secure instant messenger on the touch.
[18:45] <Guest92339> 0.9.07 is a new release of this and maybe someone can compile it for the ubutu touch ?
[18:59] <jdstrand> kenvandine: hey, I'm looking at writing some click-reviewers-tools tests for the content-hub hook
[19:00] <jdstrand> kenvandine: is there any more that can be in the content-hub json than what I see here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7799853/
[19:00] <jdstrand> kenvandine: ie, a dictionary, with "source" and "destination" as keys, each containing a list of arbitrary strings to define the uri
[19:01] <jdstrand> kenvandine: if the content-hub hook is defined in a spec somewhere, feel free to point me at it
[19:02] <kenvandine> jdstrand, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7799869/
[19:02] <kenvandine> there's also share
[19:03] <jdstrand> ok, thanks
[19:03] <kenvandine> np
[19:10] <mterry> ogra_, have you actually tested libnss-extrausers?  I'm trying now and I can login, but not passwd due to "pam_unix(passwd:chauthtok): user "phablet" does not exist in /etc/passwd"
[19:17] <mterry> ogra_, slangasek: hm, yup.  In pam_unix_passwd.c's pam_sm_chauthtok(), it only supports files(i.e. compat) and nis sources for passwd
[19:18] <slangasek> yes
[19:18] <slangasek> my understanding was that we would be stacking with a different PAM module
[19:18] <slangasek> is that not the case?
[19:23] <mterry> slangasek, uh..  not sure.  libnss-extrausers doesn't seem to ship a pam module for use with it.  Maybe such a module exists in a different package...
[19:24] <slangasek> mterry: ok; I assumed whoever had designed this had understood that there would be some PAM finagling required, sorry :)
[19:25] <mterry> slangasek, well I'm fine with PAM finagling.  I had just been under the impression that module existed
[19:25] <mterry> Or at least that libnss-extrausers hooked into the system in a way that PAM used
[19:34] <mterry> slangasek, also... are you aware of how group lookups work with /etc/nsswitch.conf?    Like if a group foobar has entries in both /etc/group and /var/lib../group, do they merge?
[19:35] <slangasek> mterry: I don't recall; infinity might know
[19:35]  * mterry is worried that libnss-extrausers isn't going to be sufficient
[19:36] <ogra_> slangasek, only nss config changes are required afaik ...
[19:36] <mterry> ogra_, I'm getting less sure
[19:38] <ogra_> mterry, dont worry :)
[19:39] <Guest92339> Orga, do you know when the MX 3 will be out ?
[19:39] <ogra_> slangasek, we shouldnt have to fiddle with anything in pam, it shuld all just work, the only issue was adduser
[19:39] <slangasek> ogra_: no, that's not true at all
[19:39] <ogra_> slangasek, ??
[19:39] <slangasek> so if you thought this was just going to work on the PAM side, then I'm afraid you've gravely misunderstood
[19:39] <ogra_> Guest92339, well, some time after september i would guess
[19:40] <Guest92339> this means before chrsitmas ?
[19:40] <ogra_> probably
[19:40] <Guest92339> very late
[19:40] <ogra_> "second half of the year" is all i know
[19:40] <Guest92339> could be since 14 days
[19:40] <ogra_> no ... :)
[19:41] <Guest92339> will there be a pre-order page ?
[19:41] <ogra_> that indeed assumes the OS is done ;)
[19:41] <popey> Guest92339: that's up to the manufacturer, out of our control
[19:41] <mterry> ogra_, well we need (a) the user to exist (b) to be able to use passwd to change password and (c) the ability to add/remove user from groups, notably nopasswdlogin.  libnss-extrausers might only be getting us (1)
[19:41] <ogra_> so between "day the OS is done" and end of the year
[19:41] <Guest92339> ok.
[19:41] <mterry> "only be getting us (a)" rather
[19:41] <Guest92339> who can compile an Qt app for ubuntu touch ?
[19:42] <ogra_> mterry, adduser gives us group control too
[19:42] <popey> Guest92339: get the sdk, you can
[19:42] <ogra_> passwd should work fine
[19:42] <popey> Guest92339: http://developer.ubuntu.com/ - #ubuntu-app-devel is where app devs hang out
[19:42] <mterry> ogra_, well I'm not 100% on the details there.  It gives us a group file.  But only for group ids above 500 I think?  And so I'm not sure if it can merges group entries from /etc/group and its own file
[19:43] <ogra_> mterry, dont worry, the setup we will use is used on all debian servers atm ;)
[19:43] <mterry> ogra_, passwd goes through pam_unix, which does not work with libnss-extrausers
[19:43] <Guest92339> i think this app should be on the touch: http://sourceforge.net/projects/goldbug/files/goldbug-im_WIN_0.9.07/
[19:43] <popey> Guest92339: feel free to port it
[19:43] <Guest92339> it compiles for ubuntu
[19:43] <mterry> I wonder if passwd can be configured differently
[19:44] <ogra_> slangasek, not sure if we need pam tinkering, i understood infinity and stgraber that we wouldn't
[19:46] <ajalkane_> Guest92339: You will need to port the UI to use QML. QtWidgets don't really work well with small screens
[19:49] <ajalkane_> I see... as far as my quick glance reveals it's not a Qt application at all?
[19:52] <ajalkane_> Ah it is... but indeed seems to be QWidget code. Porting to Qt's QML, and especially to Ubuntu Touch's QML components is needed
[19:54] <Guest92339> no the widgets work as well for touch an mobile and they have been optimized  all processes can be reaced over rhe widgets QML is not needed  it has been tested as well on a windows tablet or mobile device.
[19:57] <mterry> ogra_, well you seem pretty confident due to this pattern being used in debian servers, but I guess I'm not sure how to get it configured like we want
[19:57] <ajalkane_> I'm not aware that QWidgets are supported on Ubuntu Touch...
[19:57] <Guest92339> uh? it is Qt !
[19:57] <ogra_> mterry, my plan was to work with stgraber and infinity on that next after i have the developer mode UI bits ready
[19:58] <ogra_> mterry, feel free to approach them ahead of me ;)
[19:58] <ogra_> i know they both are familiar with that setup and are running machines with it
[19:58] <mterry> stgraber, infinity: consider yourselves poked next time you're around, grab me or ogra_  :)
[19:58] <ajalkane> QWidgets are in Qt in "supported" but not actively anymore developed status. It seems mostly not supported in mobile devices and QML is the preferred approach
[20:00] <Guest92339> uh? some say so some say so, QML has as well some negative feedback
[20:01]  * sergiusens thinks every API, toolkit or language has "negatives"; doesn't stop them from getting the job done
[20:01] <ajalkane> Well, having QWidgets working on mobile devices would need some platform specific code. Like it has for Linux Desktops, Windows, OS X. I don't think any of the Qt using mobile platforms (N9 MeeGo, Ubuntu Touch, BB 10, Sailfish) provide any QWidget compatibility. It's QML.
[20:02] <ajalkane> Qt project has outlined QML is the future and I guess that's where the focus is regardless if there's some drawbacks in some scenarios compared to QWidgets
[20:09] <slangasek> ogra_: as the PAM maintainer, I am telling you that you will need PAM changes :P
[20:09] <ogra_> slangasek, heh, ok ... i guess i belive you then :)
[20:10] <slangasek> pam_unix does not support writing to any other shadow files than /etc/shadow
[20:10] <slangasek> so there must be some other pam module to handle this
[20:13] <ogra_> i thought nsswitch hooks in there somewhere
[20:24] <jdstrand> kenvandine: are there any constraints on the value of destination, source and share? ie, a regex I could apply?
[20:46] <matv1> sergiusens i was told you might know more about mms support status. its not working right now. last bug on LP suggests there for a fix for that.
[20:47] <sergiusens> matv1: which bug?
[20:47] <matv1> But I'm not sure that has landed yet. Do you know?
[20:47] <matv1> oh hang on i have to find it again
[20:47] <sergiusens> matv1: sending doesn't work; that's known and being worked on; recv should work and if it doesn't, feel free to report a bug
[20:51] <matv1> i see.
[20:53] <matv1> sergiusens i was thinking of this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/messaging-app/+bug/1325009
[20:53] <sergiusens> matv1: that's on salem_ 's turf
[20:56] <matv1> sergiusens ok salem_ is hereby poked :)
[20:56] <salem_> matv1, hey
[20:56] <sergiusens> matv1: just wait for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-ofono/+bug/1342270 to be fixed
[20:56] <sergiusens> it's not the only bug
[20:57] <sergiusens> but it should be the last one in the chain
[20:57] <salem_> salem_, status report is broken indeed, this is next on my todo list.
[20:57] <salem_> matv1, ^
[21:04] <matv1> salem_  I understand. so I dont need to do any bug rep.
[21:04] <matv1> salem_ thnx
[21:05] <renat__> pmcgowan, who is working on system settings language selector, sebastian has marked this bug #1342326, as duplicated of bug #1332584, and I do not think this is duplicated
[21:06] <renat__> pmcgowan, the language list has empty items and the language names does not follow a standard, some languages start with lowercase chars other with uppercase chars
[21:14] <pmcgowan> renat__, I will take a look
[21:14] <pmcgowan> renat__, add comments if you want
[21:30] <matv1> _salem sergiussens so receiving should work?  i mean that wont involve the smil content bug right?
[21:30] <matv1> because i just checked and it doesnt :(
[21:32] <matv1> sergiusens ^
[21:34] <sergiusens> matv1: it should if you are not in the US and not on t-mobile (we don't support ipv6)
[21:35] <sergiusens> rephrasing; t-mobile in the US uses ipv6 and we do't support that
[21:35] <matv1> sergiusens i am neither
[21:36] <sergiusens> then log a bug like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nuntium/+bug/1336146
[21:36] <sergiusens> matv1: a new bug; don't piggyback on that one
[21:37] <matv1> sergiusens  okay . but against nuntium right?
[21:37] <sergiusens> matv1: yes ubuntu-bug nuntium from the device
[21:41] <matv1> sergiusens sure  i will do that. thnx for the help.
[21:43] <Noskcaj> Could someone please patch ubuntu-system-settings to work with upower 0.99? We're hoping to have the new upower in ubuntu this cycle