[15:01] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 17 15:01:52 2014 UTC.  The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:02] <cjwatson> #topic Lightning round
[15:02]  * mvo_ waves
[15:02] <cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
[15:02] <sil2100> o/
[15:02] <cjwatson> bhuey infinity stgraber doko cjwatson caribou sil2100 xnox barry slangasek robru mvo jodh bdmurray
[15:03] <bdmurray> cjwatson: I have to run an errand towards the end of the meeting could I go closer to the beginning?
[15:03] <cjwatson> bdmurray: mkay, why don't you go first, not sure Bill's around
[15:03] <sil2100> Maybe bdmurray could go first, bdmurray starts with the same letter as bhuey o/
[15:03]  * sil2100 nods to himself proudly
[15:04] <bdmurray> and ends with the same letter too!
[15:04] <sil2100> !
[15:04] <bdmurray> review of armhf retracing results
[15:04] <bdmurray> research into missing libmirclientplatform-android-dbgsym issue (its not in the Packages file)
[15:04] <bdmurray> pinged wgrant, pitti about Packages files on ddebs.ubuntu.com
[15:04] <bdmurray> investigation into apport's error re "package liburcu1 does not exist, ignoring"
[15:04] <bdmurray> that was due to Contents.gz being out of date
[15:04] <bdmurray> research into apport bug 1336062 (confirmed and testcase created)
[15:04] <bdmurray> wrote test and submitted mp fixing bug 1336062
[15:04] <bdmurray> worked with thedac to get apport updated to r2818 which fixes bug 1336062
[15:04] <bdmurray> modified how the retracer uses the original_sas
[15:04] <bdmurray> investigation into whoopsie bug 1339916
[15:04] <bdmurray> rewrote and tested how daisy/submit_core.py manages rabbit connections
[15:04] <bdmurray> pinged jjo about cassandra / swift errors (he'd done something about it already)
[15:04] <bdmurray> updated daisy-retracer charm and error-tracker-dependencies to use oops-amqp settings
[15:04] <bdmurray> investigation into missing stacktrace for a specific bucket
[15:04] <bdmurray> updated daisy to save the retraced crash report if the retraced crash has no Stacktrace
[15:04] <bdmurray> got the dpkcomparator to build, then it failed oopsrepository tests (sorted that out)
[15:04] <bdmurray> discussed tearing down newcassandra with thedac (its going to happen)
[15:04] <bdmurray> irc discussion with plars regarding whoopsie and how it behaves and how it should behave
[15:05] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:05] <mvo_> tearing it down?
[15:05] <infinity> * spent a lot of time on the kernel security and SRU updates
[15:05] <infinity> * was sick for a bit
[15:05] <infinity> * working on cleaning up last-minute pending bits for trusty point release
[15:05] <infinity> * EOLing saucy today \o/
[15:05] <infinity> ∞
[15:05] <bdmurray> infinity: oh right, less crashes to accept!
[15:06] <xnox> infinity: \o/ EOL EOL EOL =)
[15:06] <cjwatson> #chair slangasek
[15:06] <meetingology> Current chairs: cjwatson slangasek
[15:07] <cjwatson> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7809421/
[15:07] <slangasek> cjwatson: ta
[15:08] <infinity> stgraber: You're up.
[15:09] <doko> continuing ...
[15:09] <doko> - we are waldmeister
[15:09] <doko> - openjdk-6 update, security will follow
[15:09] <doko> - openjdk-7 update
[15:09] <doko> - gcc-4.8, gcc-4.9 builds, for trusty, utopic, xgene
[15:09] <doko> - some merges
[15:09] <doko> - discussing and packaging of some third party software
[15:09] <doko> - will be at Linaro on Fri, GNU Cauldron the weekend, and travelling back on Mon
[15:09] <doko> (done)
[15:09] <mvo_> lol
[15:09] <cjwatson> Customer meeting.
[15:09] <cjwatson> Working on parted 3 transition (in Debian).  Almost done - just need to fix partitionmanager and possibly NMU guymager, then get an ack from the Debian release team to start the transition.
[15:10] <cjwatson> Pushing along the libav transition.  Also almost done - calligra still needs to be fixed, and then I need to coordinate the gallery-app changes.
[15:10] <cjwatson> Landing team shift on Wednesday.
[15:10] <cjwatson> launchpad-buildd change to improve compatibility with scalingstack.
[15:10] <cjwatson> Optimised step A2 of the Launchpad publisher, cutting about three minutes off the primary archive publishing time in several cases.
[15:10] <cjwatson> Preparing for RTM dogfood dry-run next week.  Discussed CI Train changes, added ubuntu-rtm support to livecd-rootfs, and most of the way through adding support to cdimage.
[15:10] <cjwatson> ..
[15:10] <caribou> * Sprint week with team in London
[15:10] <caribou> * Complete Debian Maintainer application
[15:10] <caribou> * Complete work on sosreport 3.1 backport on Precise (python3)
[15:10] <caribou> * Work on sosreport for Debian upstream
[15:10] <caribou> * Start migration to new escalation workflow
[15:11] <caribou> (done)
[15:11] <sil2100> o/
[15:11] <sil2100> - Landing team work, landing e-mails, landing coordination - standard stuff
[15:11] <sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
[15:11] <xnox> caribou: are there details on the new workflow? Would like to be inline with it, when people ping me out of order.
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Testing new auto merge & clean functionality
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Performing some security-based tests on the CI Train, reverts
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Debugging CI Train spreadsheet issues
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Looking into the jenkins secure start-build remote triggers
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Work on enabling CI Train for other-than-ubuntu distributions (e.g. ubuntu-rtm)
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Moving the unapproved-merges check to the publish job
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Testing the 'do not modify package version' functionality
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Minor tweaks
[15:11] <sil2100> - Work on the CI Train Issue tracker:
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Sniffing around Launchpad's API lack of both JSONP or CORS
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Working backend, almost finished frontend
[15:11] <sil2100> - Work on +1 Maintenance:
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Pushing an updated NEW libaudclient (now accepted into the archive)
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Pushing some rdeps of libaudclient2 to unblock: audtty, pidgin-audacious, wmaud
[15:11] <sil2100> - Patch pilot work:
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Looking at the rp-pppoe release, commenting on some required changes/fixes
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Sponsoring the osm-gps-map trusty SRU upload
[15:12] <sil2100> - Help out with packaging advice for various upstreams
[15:12] <caribou> xnox: shoudn't change anything to UE, mostly to allign with CTS support tools
[15:12] <sil2100> (done)
[15:12] <xnox> caribou: ok.
[15:12] <caribou> xnox: and UE interaction will remain on LP
[15:12] <xnox> caribou: perfect.
[15:12] <slangasek> xnox: Contents.gz being out of date> have you made any progress on that?
[15:12] <xnox> slangasek: nope.
[15:12] <xnox> * upstart 1.13 landed in the archive \o/
[15:12] <xnox> * TODO land 1.13.1 into the archive
[15:12] <xnox> * mdadm 3.3 merge done
[15:12] <xnox> * plymouth 0.9.0 merge done
[15:12] <bdmurray> :-(
[15:12] <xnox>   - but regresses vt_handoff=, e.g. i can instrument and see tty1
[15:12] <xnox>     getty between plymouth and lightdm
[15:12] <xnox> * thanks barry for round of reviews on
[15:13] <xnox>   launchpadlib/lazr.restfulclient, need to fix things up abit more
[15:13] <xnox>   before proceeding to mass porting of
[15:13] <xnox>   ubuntu-dev-tools/ubuntu-archivetools, etc.
[15:13] <xnox> * working on resolving:
[15:13] <xnox>   - desktop images failing to work in ci.ubuntu.com automated preseeding
[15:13] <bdmurray> slangasek: we did win that race recently though
[15:13] <xnox>   - some other installer bugs
[15:13] <xnox> ..
[15:13] <xnox> slangasek: bdmurray: should be looking into it later today.
[15:13] <cjwatson> sil2100: Just to be clear, are you working on both cupstream2distro and the spreadsheet?
[15:13] <barry> phone: working on releasing system-image 2.3.  lots of work on stabilizing the test suite, investigating, reporting, and working around various external issues (e.g. LP: #1341685).  LP: #1339157.  LP: #1340882.  LP: #1342183.  LP: #1273354.  released 2.3 upstream, now working on the packaging branch for the citrain.  should be ready by eow.
[15:13] <cjwatson> (for ubuntu-rtm)
[15:14] <barry> debuntu: zope.browserpage 4.1.0a1-0ubuntu1, zope.formlib 4.3.0a2-0ubuntu1, zope.copypastemove 4.0.0a1-0ubuntu1, debian bug #754016.  still haven't quite gotten all the zope.* packages cleared from -proposed, but i'll be looking at the blockers in more detail after landing system-image 2.3.
[15:14] <barry> other: helped various colleagues with python issues/questions/porting/reviews.  occasional py3 autopilot merging and pushing.
[15:14] <barry> done
[15:14] <sil2100> cjwatson: yes, but I didn't change too much on the spreadsheet side for RTM-support yet as there we're 'always' working on a live system
[15:14] <sil2100> cjwatson: so I prefer to have the backend finished up and tested first
[15:14] <cjwatson> xnox: ubuntu-archive-tools should almost all be ready for Python 3 already.  I made some effort there a while back, although most of the porting was a bit blind.
[15:15] <cjwatson> xnox: There's the problem that I expect some AAs are still running them on trusty, though, and some people other than AAs use ubuntu-archive-tools too.
[15:15] <cjwatson> So we may need to wait a while before flipping #!.
[15:15] <cjwatson> sil2100: Right, thanks
[15:17] <robru> is it my turn? sorry guys I got disconnected at the exact moment that the order was given, I missed it
[15:17] <barry> slangasek's turn i think
[15:17] <infinity> robru: You're after slangasek.
[15:17] <slangasek> caribou: escalation workflow shouldn't change anything for UE> so I should continue to ignore out-of-band requests for help on the nis package? ;-)
[15:18] <robru> infinity, thanks
[15:18] <slangasek> ok one sec
[15:18] <xnox> cjwatson: yeah, I understand that trusty is important and thus shebang shouldn't be changed yet. If i port enough bits and validate that they run correctly, I can look into upstream release of python3 enabled stack, uploads to debian/ubuntu and then possibly backport python3 support into e.g. trusty-backports or some such.
[15:18] <mvo_> hello, sorry - we had a power outage here
[15:18] <xnox> mvo_: heat power cut?! =)
[15:18] <slangasek>  * finishing up the console-setup merge
[15:18] <slangasek>   * not enough beer in the world
[15:18] <slangasek>  * working on supporting nss_extrausers in adduser; however, there seem to be various requirements that assume other pieces will Just Work when they don't, now reviewing the spec
[15:18] <mvo_> probably :)
[15:18] <slangasek>  * nudged upstart 1.13 into the archive a bit
[15:18] <slangasek>  * moving the C++11 ABI transition forward so we can unblock gcc-4.9
[15:18] <mvo_> and no mobile either
[15:18] <slangasek>  * performance review cycle stuff
[15:18] <slangasek>  * patch piloting today
[15:19] <cjwatson> xnox: *nod*
[15:19] <caribou> slangasek: business as usual
[15:19] <xnox> slangasek: apw and I can ship more beer to get that merge done =)
[15:20] <slangasek> xnox: at some point you start to drown in it, and that's also an impediment?
[15:20] <xnox> slangasek: there is always dehydrated caplets and IV drips.....
[15:20] <xnox> =))))
[15:21] <caribou> slangasek: but I thought my OOB request was on pamd
[15:21] <slangasek> (done)
[15:21] <slangasek> caribou: this wasn't you ;)
[15:21] <slangasek> robru: your turn
[15:21] <robru> * updated CI Train dashboard and queuebot to not hard-code spreadsheet column numbers, making them more flexible in the face of spreadsheet changes, which will happen soon to support RTM
[15:21] <robru> * neutered Friends API, so it still exists for compatibility, but does not actually send or receive any messages. this fixes a long-standing security hole on the desktop where Friends would let any app impersonate you on your social networks without any authentication.
[15:21] <robru> * ton of ongoing landings as usual.
[15:21] <robru> * Trusty SRU of webapps-greasemonkey
[15:21] <robru> * branch to drop friends scope from unity7
[15:21] <robru> * de-seeded friends-app from touch image 131 & up
[15:21] <robru> * minor branch to fix a merge failure in the g++-4.9 transition
[15:21] <robru> * tweaked CI Train silo dashboard to not hover-hide MP URLs when there's a search term present. so if you're looking at just a couple silos, you don't need to fiddly-hover over the source package name to see the MP links.
[15:21] <robru> * also made the hover-mp-list slightly less fiddly to mouse to by squaring-off the top left corner, and decreasing the left margin, so you can mouse to it with less precision.
[15:21] <robru> ✔ done
[15:21] <caribou> slangasek: ah
[15:21] <mvo_> citrain:
[15:21] <mvo_> - Add warning to the .gs script when low on silos
[15:21] <mvo_> - Landing team duty
[15:21] <mvo_> click:
[15:21] <mvo_> - Code review
[15:21] <mvo_> - Discussion about click signatures/read the old ML thread to be uptodate
[15:21] <mvo_> - fix bug in debsigs --delete
[15:21] <mvo_>   (https://gitorious.org/debsigs/debsigs/merge_requests/1)
[15:22] <mvo_> - Improve lp:/~mvo/click/lp1334611-getpwnam based on Colins feedback (thanks)
[15:22] <mvo_> - lp:~mvo/click/click-ubuntu-policy - initial skeleton for the debsig-verify
[15:22] <mvo_>   based verification
[15:22] <mvo_> - lp:~mvo/click/debsigs-verify
[15:22] <mvo_> - Lp:~mvo/click/more-integration-tests3
[15:22] <mvo_> - Trying to debug #1338994 (no luck)
[15:22] <mvo_> hwe:
[15:22] <mvo_> - Debug/fix #1341324 and upload new version to precise-proposed
[15:22] <mvo_> - Debugged/fixed #1342424 - simple, but underlying problem is in pam,
[15:22] <mvo_>   created possible solution for this as well
[15:22] <mvo_> - fix bug in update-motd to take
[15:22] <mvo_>   /var/lib/update-notifier/disable-hwe-eol-messages into effect when
[15:22] <barry> robru: RIP friends?
[15:22] <mvo_>   checking if the cache is still valid
[15:22] <mvo_> apt:
[15:22] <mvo_> - Debug/fix bug commandline arg parsing for packages starting with 0/1
[15:22] <mvo_> - Debug kubuntu upgrade issue with riddel
[15:22] <mvo_> - Debug/fix segfault Bug#754904
[15:22] <mvo_> merge:
[15:22] <mvo_> - Manpages, aptitude, krb5, slang2, curl
[15:22] <mvo_> - looked at some more like coreutils that are not needed to merge at this
[15:22] <mvo_>   point, would be nice to have a way to mark them as unneeded somehow
[15:22] <mvo_> misc:
[15:22] <mvo_> - command-not-found: fix #1130444 and update data for utopic
[15:22] <mvo_> - apt-ddtp update/upload
[15:22] <mvo_> - Phone issues (browser 100%: #1342195, calendar not working #1338956)
[15:22] <mvo_> (done)
[15:22] <robru> barry, yep, sorry to say, it just wasn't architected for the mobile world. we can maybe revisit reviving it in 15.04 but it just wasn't suitable to RTM
[15:23] <jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
[15:23] <jodh>   - cgroups+async: Released Upstart 1.13 and updated Upstart Cookbook.
[15:23] <jodh> * upstart:
[15:23] <jodh>   - Fixed bug 1222705.
[15:23] <jodh>   - Followed up with a 1.13.1 release.
[15:23] <jodh>   - Uploaded 1.13.1 to archive.
[15:23] <jodh> * systemd:
[15:23] <jodh>   - Fixed bug 1342586.
[15:23] <jodh>   - Picking over 'systemd-boot' bugs
[15:23] <jodh> ⌚
[15:23] <barry> robru: ah well, who needs friends anyway?
[15:23] <robru> barry, not me! I got you guys!
[15:23] <jodh> xnox: we haven't yet actually activated cgroup support in upstart. We need something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/7809486/ but I'm not sure if we need tweaks to d/control for cgmanager?
[15:24] <barry> robru: with friends like us... :)
[15:24] <xnox> jodh: i'd rather not tweak tight dependencies and instead do that but with extra || true
[15:24] <jodh> xnox: my local .conf does exactly that :)
[15:25] <jodh> xnox: I'll raise an MP...
[15:25] <slangasek> mvo_: 1342424> I thought you were fixing it to always use ISO dates?  That seems perfectly appropriate to me, and is then not locale-dependent
[15:25] <xnox> jodh: and i'd want to land that when it's relatively quite in the archive, It's not at the moment. Maybe later on friday and/or over the weekend - monday time.
[15:25] <mvo_> slangasek: I fixed it that way, yes. I also mentioned in the bugreport that we might consider to make_pamd set the locale/lang environment
[15:26] <mvo_> slangasek: but that would not be suitable for a sru I think as it may trigger more bugs/unexpected behavior
[15:26] <slangasek> mvo_: ack
[15:26] <jodh> xnox: I vote for Monday (Warsaw's Second Law :)
[15:26] <barry> :)
[15:26] <mvo_> slangasek: but if that something from the pam maintainers perspective that is worthwhile, I can add it in utopic
[15:26] <slangasek> mvo_: no, I don't think that warrants an SRU
[15:27] <slangasek> bhuey: here?
[15:27] <slangasek> seems not
[15:28] <slangasek> mvo_: ready to talk about click signing? :)
[15:28] <xnox> *gasp* exiting =)
[15:28] <mvo_> sure, get ready for a paste attack
[15:28] <mvo_> What I'm currently working on: Signatures on Click Packages from
[15:28] <mvo_> the store and the developers.
[15:28] <mvo_> Most of the discussion happened about a year ago, Colin suggested to
[15:28] <mvo_> use debsigs/debsig-verify back then. There was a competing proposal to
[15:28] <mvo_> just use gpg detached signatures that caused some discussion but the
[15:28] <mvo_> approach via debsig-verify is much more flexible and robust. Its based
[15:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Click signing
[15:28] <mvo_> on detached gpg signatures that get appended to the deb ar
[15:28]  * xnox *exciting
[15:28] <mvo_> container. Because a click is a relocatable deb without the maintainer
[15:28] <mvo_> script nonsense we can use those tools just fine. All we are currently
[15:28] <mvo_> providing is SSL (which is obviously not good enough) but we will add
[15:28] <mvo_> signatures from both the developer and from the store.
[15:28] <mvo_> How does it work in detail?
[15:28] <mvo_> - the developer signs the foo.click via "debsig --sign=maint", this
[15:28] <mvo_>   process will be integrated into qtcreator in some way
[15:28] <mvo_> - the foo.click is uploaded to the store
[15:28] <mvo_> - the store checks that the signature is valid and if so appends its
[15:28] <mvo_>   own "debsig --sign=origin" signature
[15:28] <mvo_> - user A downloads the click with the 2 sigs
[15:29] <mvo_> - "click install foo.click" checks the origin signature via
[15:29] <mvo_>    debsig-verify and rejects invalid/missing ones
[15:29] <mvo_>    (unless --allow-unauthenticated is given which can overrides
[15:29] <mvo_>     missing ones)
[15:29] <mvo_> - developer signature is not used on the user machine *but* the
[15:29] <mvo_>   developer (or anyone else) can verify that we didn't alter his/her
[15:29] <mvo_>    click package. "debsigs --delete=origin" will even restore the identical
[15:29] <mvo_>    click package that got uploaded to the click store
[15:29] <mvo_> What the current status:
[15:29] <mvo_> - click branch with debsigs-verify integration is ready for review
[15:29] <mvo_> - we need a store origin signing key
[15:29] <mvo_> - the store needs to sign the clicks using debsigs --sign=origin
[15:29] <mvo_> - a skeleton package click-ubuntu-policy with the debsig-verify policy
[15:29] <mvo_>   is available, but it needs review and the store signing pubkey
[15:29] <mvo_> - once click-ubuntu-policy is ready it gets seeded and becomes part
[15:29] <mvo_>   of the base image
[15:29] <mvo_> - we do not need to modify any of the higher layers (scope, updater)
[15:29] <mvo_> References:
[15:29] <mvo_> - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ClickPackageSigning
[15:29] <mvo_> - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bug/1330770
[15:29] <mvo_> ---
[15:30] <mvo_> thats the part I prepared :) I think this is the first time I'm part of such a session
[15:30] <xnox> mvo_: how does debsigs work? is it extra members in the ar archive?
[15:30] <cjwatson> it is
[15:30] <mvo_> xnox: yes, it adds a extra member for the origin and the maintainer
[15:30] <mvo_> (so one extra each)
[15:30] <cjwatson> _gpg<arbitrary name>
[15:31] <slangasek> '"debsigs --delete=origin" will even restore the identical click package that got uploaded to the click store' - oh, nice
[15:31] <mvo_> yeah, thats a nice property - once the fix for this lands upstream, but we can just distro patch it
[15:31] <cjwatson> even without debsigs --delete=origin working (which mvo had to fix), debsigs is append-only, so you can see that your previous package is a prefix
[15:31] <xnox> are we gonna sign archive binaries like that as well?
[15:32] <xnox> imho it would be benefitial that e.g. one can downloads debs direct from launchpadlib and verify them.
[15:32] <xnox> instead of just relying on the librarian SSL
[15:32] <slangasek> out of scope ;)
[15:32] <cjwatson> .debs have the chain of trust back to Release.gpg - there are some fringe benefits like that to signing them inline, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle
[15:32] <cjwatson> and indeed, out of scope
[15:32] <cjwatson> we still need to organise some kind of meeting to generate and shard a store signing key
[15:33] <slangasek> note that Debian has consistently refused to support debsigs for packages in the Debian archive
[15:33] <cjwatson> that's on the floor right now unless somebody has picked it up lately
[15:33] <slangasek> on the grounds that it would seduce users into trusting them in bad ways
[15:33] <xnox> ETOMANYSHARDS =)
[15:33] <cjwatson> tell me about it <looks at bag>
[15:33] <infinity> slangasek: Debian has the problem that their binaries are generated on a whole lot of machines owned/operated by a whole lot of people.
[15:34] <infinity> slangasek: We could certainly sign our binaries in a more verifiably secure fashion.
[15:34] <slangasek> heh, so we want all the same keymanagement for this as for our other keys?
[15:34] <cjwatson> infinity: that's true of click packages too - we're applying the store signature centrally later
[15:34] <infinity> (Oh, I guess they could sign on ftpmaster with this append mode business)
[15:34] <cjwatson> debsigs supports multiple signatures for this kind of reason
[15:34] <slangasek> infinity: that's not the reason ftpmasters reject them
[15:34]  * xnox ponders if _my_ debs would be rejected if I debsign them.
[15:34] <slangasek> xnox: yes
[15:34] <xnox> poodles =(
[15:34] <barry> infinity: there were some long threads about source-only uploads a la ubuntu, but that seems to have petered out :/
[15:34] <cjwatson> slangasek: so, I don't know how much of the full panoply we want, but if we have a key that's being trusted by a gazillion client devices we should manage it securely
[15:35] <cjwatson> it probably isn't immediately necessary to have it signed by the über-master key
[15:35] <xnox> cjwatson: just convert the ssl private key into a gpg key *giggle* =)
[15:35] <xnox> (the store one)
[15:35] <slangasek> cjwatson, mvo_: is key rotation already specced out?
[15:36] <slangasek> xnox: I'm returning this beer, it's clearly been doped with something
[15:36] <mvo_> not in detail, my current plan is to have it as part of the ubuntu-click-policy package that can be updated as part of the system-image
[15:36] <slangasek> ok
[15:36] <mvo_> I'm not sure if that is in line with the vision of cjwatson and the security team
[15:36] <slangasek> I guess we should have that written up sooner rather than later and get eyeballs on it :)
[15:36] <mvo_> yes, I will send out a mail after the meeting
[15:37] <xnox> slangasek: =)))))
[15:38] <slangasek> cool
[15:38] <slangasek> any other questions for mvo?
[15:39] <slangasek> btw, if we're updating it via a package that's in the system-image anyway, maybe it makes sense to just chain it off one of the existing trust chains in the image instead of creating a whole new root
[15:39] <slangasek> i.e., avoid the whole "must reconstitute an offline key to rotate this key"
[15:40]  * mvo_ nods
[15:40] <barry> that's not a bad idea
[15:40] <barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades/GPG
[15:42] <slangasek> mvo_: thanks for filling us in on your work!
[15:42] <mvo_> thanks for listening
[15:42] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:42] <mvo_> (or reading)
[15:42] <slangasek> anything else?
[15:43]  * mvo_ mumbles something about the heat
[15:43] <infinity> What he said.
[15:44]  * slangasek is getting quotes for air conditioning this week
[15:44] <infinity> As my phone would autocorrect to, "ducking summer".
[15:44] <ogra_> icecream !
[15:44] <barry> slangasek: what was that about the debconf dorms again? :)
[15:44] <slangasek> stay tuned for ranty blogs about internet-enabled thermostats that don't let you manage them without talking to a third-party server!
[15:45] <slangasek> barry: well, so far the summer has been surprisingly muggy; I have no reason to believe this will continue into the end of August, Portland usually has its heat wave around this time or a couple of weeks later and then it tapers off - e.g., it's supposed to be 70 degrees this weekend ;)
[15:46] <infinity> Is that it?  Can I reboot my firewall now?
[15:46] <barry> slangasek: perfect!
[15:46] <slangasek> barry: but a heat pump has been on our todo list for a few years, and this year I'm actually in town for the 95 degree weather, so ;)
[15:46] <slangasek> infinity: yep!
[15:46] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:46] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 17 15:46:50 2014 UTC.
[15:46] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-17-15.01.moin.txt
[15:46] <slangasek> thanks all
[15:46] <barry> thanks!
[15:46] <mvo_> thanks
[15:46] <slangasek> and thanks cjwatson for covering in the face of my ipv6 issues :)
[15:47] <sil2100> o/
[15:47] <caribou> thanks !
[15:47] <xnox> tah
[15:47] <jodh> thanks!
[17:07] <elfy> #startmeeting
[17:07] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 17 17:07:35 2014 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:07] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:07] <elfy> seems that there's just YokoZar and me from the CC at the moment
[17:08] <YokoZar> Hello
[17:08] <hannie> hi elfy
[17:08] <hannie> and all
[17:08] <elfy> hi hannie
[17:08] <howefield> hello all
[17:08] <bapoumba> hello !
[17:08] <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:08] <elfy> forums council is first - and I know they are here :)
[17:09] <elfy> so - bapoumba howefield coffeecat - how's things going there
[17:09] <elfy> oops
[17:09] <elfy> #topic Forum Council
[17:09] <bapoumba> good from my perspective elfy
[17:11] <elfy> is there anything that we can help with
[17:11] <YokoZar> So the standard question I like to present at these catchups is if there's any friction between you and other teams you think could go smoother
[17:11] <YokoZar> Eg if you've been waiting on something or similar
[17:11] <bapoumba> we have much stuff going on
[17:11] <bapoumba> but no frictions
[17:11] <howefield> FC are working on quite a few topics to improve the forums which will need help form others but no friction for now
[17:12] <bapoumba> as I'm new on FC, are these catch ups to resolve issues ?
[17:14] <elfy> if there are any :)
[17:14] <bapoumba> OK thanks :)
[17:15] <YokoZar> bapoumba: They're also just a good way of finding smallish (or biggish) things that people don't bring up unless prodded
[17:15] <bapoumba> well, we've been talking with the doc team
[17:16] <bapoumba> they'd like some area on the forums, we're working that out with them
[17:17] <hannie> That's good to know. The doc team has come to live again
[17:18] <bapoumba> Hey hannie, we've been talking with Doug S and Peter
[17:18] <hannie> ah, great. I follow them on their list.
[17:18] <hannie> both great guys
[17:19] <bapoumba> hannie, yes :)
[17:19] <bapoumba> we get to know Doug better as he is active on the forums
[17:19] <hannie> It is always good to see more cooperation between teams
[17:20] <bapoumba> hannie, yes
[17:20] <elfy> so generally everything is ok at the moment
[17:21] <bapoumba> elfy, yes from me
[17:21] <howefield> in the short time I have been on the FC, things haven't moved so fast, so pretty good tbh.
[17:22] <elfy> indeed :)
[17:23] <elfy> YokoZar: anything from you ?
[17:23] <YokoZar> I'm just generally reassured.  Forums are in general a hard thing to get right.
[17:23] <elfy> well I'm good with what's going on obviously
[17:24] <bapoumba> YokoZar, ?
[17:25] <YokoZar> bapoumba: I'm proud of our forums.  Most web forums are not something I'd be proud of ;)
[17:25] <bapoumba> :)
[17:25] <bapoumba> thanks
[17:25] <howefield> that's really good to hear.
[17:26] <bapoumba> YokoZar, we'll pass it on to the moderation team if you do not mind
[17:26] <YokoZar> Of course.
[17:28] <bapoumba> YokoZar, I see you used to post there :)
[17:28] <elfy> I will add that we appear to have got a good working relationship going with IS now generally - which was in the past something the FC has needed help with
[17:28] <elfy> we certainly don't feel quite like the red-headed step child so much now
[17:29] <hannie> What's IS?
[17:30] <bapoumba> elfy, that was from the past past
[17:30] <elfy> indeed
[17:31] <elfy> ok - if there's nothing else we can move on I think
[17:31] <elfy> anything from FC ?
[17:31] <bapoumba> not from me, thanks for the kind words YokoZar
[17:32] <YokoZar> Thank you FC
[17:32] <howefield> thanks elfy
[17:32] <howefield> and YokoZar
[17:33] <coffeecat> thanks
[17:35] <elfy> thanks all
[17:35] <bapoumba> thanks elfy
[17:35] <elfy> # Topic Translations team
[17:35] <elfy> so - is there anyone here from the translations team ?
[17:36] <hannie> yes, but I think I am the only one
[17:36] <hannie> That is, I am from Ubuntu Dutch translators
[17:36] <elfy> hi hannie - good to see you again :)
[17:37] <hannie> There is no such thing as a Translations team, as far as I know. Only local teams
[17:37] <hannie> hey elfy, yes, it's a long time since we last spoke to each other
[17:37] <elfy> yes understood, though I was under the impression there was at least a mailing list for translations
[17:38] <hannie> yes, the mailing list is the form of communication between local teams
[17:38] <elfy> ok - so the invitation we sent was a general one to the list :)
[17:38] <hannie> It is a good means to make contact with others about translations issues
[17:39] <hannie> yes, there is not really a translators coordinator. In the past it was David Planella
[17:39] <elfy> hannie: so generally as far as you know - all is well?
[17:39] <elfy> I'd guess that he still is
[17:39] <YokoZar> Are translations something that need active coordination these days?
[17:40] <hannie> yes, the gui of the Ubuntu Desktop (Trusty) is translated in many languages
[17:40] <hannie> No, David has moved on to the ubuntu os for cellphones
[17:40] <YokoZar> What I mean is that I think we've automated/routineized most of the translations infrastructure, and I think bootstrapped most languages with at least small translation teams to get started
[17:41] <YokoZar> *made routine
[17:41] <YokoZar> "by translation teams" I mean volunteers like you of course
[17:41] <hannie> We use Launchpad to translate. All  the ubuntu packages are placed there to be translated in many different languages.
[17:43] <hannie> Local translation teams usually work on their own, but they communicate via the translators mailing list
[17:43] <hannie> I think this is a good structure. No complaints from my side, except that Lauchpad keeps on giving us headaches
[17:44] <hannie> It very often produces errors while saving to LP
[17:45] <hannie> We have filed bugs in the past, but to no avail. I guess we have to learn to live with those errors
[17:45] <elfy> hannie: was just about to ask that
[17:46] <hannie> Ok. But in general, like I said, it works fine as is
[17:48] <hannie> elfy, if there are no questions on translations, I think this is what I had to say. It is a pity there are not more translators here
[17:48] <YokoZar> You're not the only part of the project to complain about Launchpad :)
[17:49] <YokoZar> Thank you though
[17:49] <elfy> indeed
[17:49] <elfy> thanks for your time hannie
[17:49] <hannie> ah, good to know (
[17:49] <hannie> ok, everyone, see you all next time
[17:49] <hannie> thanks elfy, for being chair
[17:49] <elfy> bye hannie
[17:50] <elfy> YokoZar: unless there's anything else I guess we can wrap that up
[17:52] <elfy> #endmeeting
[17:52] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 17 17:52:52 2014 UTC.
[17:52] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-07-17-17.07.moin.txt