[00:44] <victoria> hello i need some help
[00:44] <victoria> pls
[00:49] <zequence> victoria: Just explain what you need help with, and someone will answer as soon as they can
[01:16] <Jmainguy> so yeah
[01:16] <Jmainguy> what did you need help with
[10:34] <fnstudio> hello everyone - i am running a vanilla ubuntu 14.04 on my 8GB ram laptop and was willing to start using ubuntustudio
[10:34] <fnstudio> i would like to run it in virtualbox (or similar virtualization solution you might suggest)
[10:35] <cfhowlett> ... and?
[10:35] <fnstudio> does it make sense?
[10:35] <fnstudio> :)
[10:35] <fnstudio> my goal is to be able to record from my audio card (internal for now, usb external as soon as I buy one)
[10:36] <cfhowlett> fnstudio sudo apt-get install ubuntstudio-desktop will grab the US packages.  test it out.  if you don't like it, sudo apt-get pruge ubuntustudio-desktop
[10:36] <fnstudio> and i was wondering if dealing with audio cards could be a problem from a virtualized ubuntustudio
[10:36] <cfhowlett> fnstudio OR just grab the audio-metapackage
[10:36] <cfhowlett> fnstudio why are you virtual?  why not just install it properly?
[10:36] <cfhowlett> fnstudio virtual may or may not work with your audio ...
[10:38] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: there's probably something i should understand better: i thought ubuntu studio was a distro on its own and that installing it required to delete my current vanilla ubuntu (delete or dual-boot or virtualization)
[10:38] <fnstudio> is this assumption of mine wrong?
[10:39] <cfhowlett> WRONG!  :)
[10:39] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: super :)
[10:39] <cfhowlett> !flavors
[10:39] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: that helps a lot!
[10:40] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: i think my best option for now is to follow your initial suggestion: apt-get install ubuntustudio-desktop
[10:40] <cfhowlett> fnstudio you can selectively add part or all of ubuntustudio packages to your plain vanilla ubuntu.  in fact, for recording, you don't need ALL of the audio packages .. depends on how deep into audio recording you want to go
[10:40] <cfhowlett> fnstudio wait 1 ...
[10:40] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: sure
[10:41] <cfhowlett> fnstudio pretty sure this'll work: sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-audio       for the audio metapackage.  logout, choose ubuntustudio session (with the real-time kernel)... login.
[10:42] <cfhowlett> NOT realtime - lowlatency
[10:43] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: ok
[10:43] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: will that add a dedicated kernel?
[10:44] <cfhowlett> ubuntustudio-recording is the correct metapackage name.
[10:44] <cfhowlett> apt-cache show ubuntustudio-recording for details ...
[10:44] <fnstudio> right
[10:45] <cfhowlett> fnstudio I don't see the lowlatency kernel on the list but you can install it manually.
[10:45] <cfhowlett> don't know your use case, but my first external interface was the presonus audiobox kit : mic, interface, headphones at a pretty decent price.  For podcasting = pretty close to perfect.  Hardware supported out of the box
[10:47] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: when you say "choose ubuntustudio session" what do you mean exactly? is that a desktop manager (like gnome3 or unity)
[10:47] <cfhowlett> fnstudio sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency linux-lowlatency-pae
[10:47] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: is that a necessary step or could the standard kernel just work?
[10:48] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: this is my work laptop and i would like to keep it the more stable i can
[10:48] <fnstudio> (talking about the low-latency kernel)
[10:49] <fnstudio> btw, it seems everything is installed...
[10:49] <cfhowlett> fnstudio no that's for getting the integrated menus - which we are NOT doing as you're only installing the audio metapackage.  standard kernel can give you xruns (lag) and is not optimal for music production.  Again; depends on how extensive your recording setup is.  Expert advice in #opensourcemusicians
[10:49] <cfhowlett> fnstudio fire up audacity and do some recording!
[10:50] <cfhowlett> or editing
[10:50] <fnstudio> no need to logout/login again then?
[10:50] <cfhowlett> fnstudio shouldn't be.  has your menu updated?
[10:51] <fnstudio> hrm... i use unity... no menu :)
[10:51] <cfhowlett> lol.  right.
[10:52] <fnstudio> trying with audacity
[10:54] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: it is working great - although i get this messages at start https://dpaste.de/DaPC
[10:55] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: my use case is to plug a guitar to the laptop and try some recording (still don't have any hw)
[10:55] <cfhowlett> fnstudio ONLY guitar?
[10:55] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: i think i need a dedicated guitar-to-laptop usb card
[10:56] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: yes, only guitar :)
[10:56] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: that's the only instrument i can play... and i am not even very good
[10:56] <fnstudio> ahahahah
[10:56] <fnstudio> but that's a start
[10:56] <cfhowlett> fnstudio :)
[10:57] <cfhowlett> fnstudio what version of ubuntu are you running?
[10:57] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: 14.04
[10:57] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: i found this http://akshathabel.blogspot.in/2013/04/electric-guitars-on-ubuntu-1304.html but found problems with jack
[10:57] <cfhowlett> fnstudio https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu%20Studio%20Upgrade%20from%20Ubuntu
[10:58] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: ahah, that looks very interesting
[10:59] <fnstudio> thanks!
[10:59] <cfhowlett> fnstudio you might want to go ahead and add the full art/look & feel packages.  Also: note that US uses XFCE as the Desktop Environment = much less system heavy than ubuntu/unity.
[11:00] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: oh xfce was nice, i could add it as a second desktop manager and login with that when using US
[11:00] <cfhowlett> EXACTOMUNDO!
[11:02] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: you have amazingly helpful, thank you sooo much - i think i have enough input to do some experiments now
[11:02] <cfhowlett> and if you want to make the curious wonder what you're running, see the wallpapers I loaded:  http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/unusual/beautiful-ubuntu-ray-traced-wallpapers
[11:02] <cfhowlett> happy2help
[11:03] <fnstudio> cfhowlett: oh, those are nice!
[11:03] <cfhowlett> fnstudio enjoy!
[11:07] <cfhowlett> fnstudio #opensourcemusicans and linuxaudio.org are worth a look
[11:26] <fnstudio> #opensourcemusicians sounds as a wonderful name/channel, i'll give it a try!
[16:24] <holstein> fnstudio: for me, i would rather just run studio or an audio distro live on the hardware natively
[16:24] <holstein> there will be a large hit in using jack audio virtualized like that..
[16:25] <fnstudio> hey holstein: thanks for your tip!
[16:26] <fnstudio> holstein: yeah, i see - beside that, i was explained i can just install the US components on top of my vanilla ubuntu
[16:27] <holstein> sure.. but, why?
[16:27] <holstein> i mean, if you are not interested in using JACK, and doing pro audio work, i would just use xubuntu and add what you need
[16:27] <fnstudio> holstein: it was my understanding it was preferable to install the whole distro from scratch
[16:28] <holstein> they are all ubuntu, and have the same sources and core, so, if all you want is audactiy and and the gimp, you can just use ubuntu or xubuntu and add those.. or any of the ubuntustudio meta packages
[16:28] <fnstudio> holstein: well, actually i'm interested in audio recording: external audio card connected to a guitar (i'm just a beginner, probably don't need super high features)
[16:28] <holstein> sure.. audio recording in general, on *any* operating system or machine will not work well virtualized
[16:29] <fnstudio> holstein: yeah, i can imagine
[16:29] <fnstudio> holstein: my plan is:
[16:29] <holstein> but, ubuntustudio live is a great way to get used to jack, and you can really get into it, and break it, and easily revert
[16:31] <fnstudio> 0. try to install all the necessary packages from US (i think i already did that thanks to cfhowlett)
[16:31] <fnstudio> 1. make jack working (now i'm having some problems)
[16:31] <fnstudio> 2. make audacity (or possibly ardour) to work
[16:31] <fnstudio> 3. try recording
[16:31] <fnstudio> 4. if it clicks, installing a low-latency kernel
[16:31] <holstein> fnstudio: not in virtualization
[16:32] <holstein> fnstudio: plus, do you need low latency?
[16:32] <fnstudio> no no, installing US components in my real ubunty
[16:32] <fnstudio> *ubuntu
[16:32] <holstein> i mean, "if it clicks", moving on to lower latency settings is a good course of action
[16:32] <fnstudio> holstein: oh cool
[16:33] <holstein> the lowlatency kernel is in the repos.. regadless.. you'll want the live installter iso.. so, i suggest, play with it.. play with jack, and configurations on the live disc.. do some actual work there in the live environment
[16:33] <fnstudio> holstein: i'll be more than happy to keep my current kernel - i was just mentioning that since i found it on some websites
[16:33] <holstein> then, install or add, or convert to whatever you need based on your actual needs from what you learn you need runing the live iso
[16:34] <holstein> if you dont have hardware that is capable of lower latency, it really doesnt matter what you do, you wont get it
[16:34] <fnstudio> holstein: super! so, i'll create a bootable usb drive and run US from there
[16:34] <holstein> what makes hardware "low latency capable" ? ..it can be as simple as good driver support in linux
[16:34] <holstein> *if* you can provide low latency, then, the low latency kernel can help
[16:35] <fnstudio> holstein: i have a dell xps13 developer edition
[16:35] <holstein> but, do you need low latency? there are 2 cases.. live control of software synths, and live realtime effects processing
[16:35] <fnstudio> and was thinking of buying a usb card to plug my guitar to the laptop
[16:35] <holstein> fnstudio: im talking about the external audio device
[16:35] <fnstudio> oh i see
[16:35] <holstein> fnstudio: you will *not* get "good" latency settings from an internal device.. but, what im saying is, you likely dont need it
[16:36] <holstein> i mean.. what is latency? what are we even talking about?
[16:36] <holstein> fnstudio: if you press record, and record your guitar or band, and 40 ms later, the machine records that on the hard drive.. whats that matter?
[16:36] <holstein>  who cares if it takes 40ms, 4ms, or 400?
[16:36] <holstein> it doesnt change the information or the quality. so whats it matter?
[16:37] <holstein> also, when you press play to listen back, who cares if the machine plays the information back 4ms, 40ms, or 400ms later.. right?
[16:37] <fnstudio> holstein: yeah, i think my needs are pretty basic, i'm just a novice - sorry i've mentioned "low-latency"
[16:38] <fnstudio> yeah, i agree
[16:38] <holstein> the only 2 times it actually factually matters is, realtime effects.. where, you plug your guitar into the computer and have the machine provide effects such as distortion via something like rakkarack
[16:38] <holstein> or, you are playing a midi instrument, and you want the sound to happen as if its an actual instrument. and not 40 or 400ms later..
[16:38] <holstein> for me, anything around 8ms or so is quite acceptable for "realtime" lowlatency work
[16:39] <fnstudio> holstein: oh that makes things clearer!
[16:39] <holstein> i can get 1.2ms stable with the firewire audio device.. but, i actually use different settings for different tasks
[16:39] <fnstudio> holstein: hey it seems i'm entering a vast and very interesting world
[16:39] <holstein> if im mixing, and i have a lot of CPU usage, i'll relax the settings, and have 90ms or more.. because, that doesnt effect the quality, and its easier on the system
[16:40] <holstein> but, for you, the biggest issue you have is the inappropriate audio device
[16:40] <fnstudio> holstein: hm i'd be interested in what kind of music you play :)
[16:40] <holstein> its not a "bad" audio device.. its inappropriate.. its not intended to do audio production, or have attenuated line in's for your guitar
[16:41] <fnstudio> audio device... well, i'm not sure this is the proper place to discuss that, but if you wonder i just ordered a "Behringer UCG102 USB Guitar Link"
[16:41] <holstein> not that you should be lined in directly like that, really, anyways.. if you were in a studio paying $100+/hour, for example, and playing electric guitar like that, they would *never* line you into an internal sound card.. or any sound card
[16:42] <holstein> they would, for exampele, take a nice amp, and a nice mic into a nice preamp into the interface into the computer
[16:42] <holstein> you can more closely emulate that work flow, and get "good" results
[16:42] <holstein> if you get a decent mic, and an interface with decent preamps, you can emulate that work flow for under $400 and have quite nice results
[16:43] <fnstudio> holstein: what if i plug my guitar into that Behringer card?
[16:43] <fnstudio> (i don't have any amps at the moment)
[16:43] <holstein> fnstudio: what im saying is, you shouldnt (ideally) plug your guitar into *any* card
[16:43] <fnstudio> holstein: oh
[16:43] <fnstudio> holstein: i see
[16:43] <holstein> fnstudio: that begringer does many things for your setup, though
[16:44] <holstein> it gets you "outside the box", and i have heard good things about the hardware support, so you can get lower latency
[16:44] <fnstudio> holstein: could that work as a first step to enter this music world?
[16:44] <holstein> fnstudio: sure..
[16:44] <holstein> fnstudio: that paired with a cheapy behringer mixer with a mic preamp would get you far, and for under $75
[16:45] <holstein> i would try and shop for them used, and you can sell them for what you pay for them, when you out grow them.. but, that investment is quite reasonable
[16:45] <fnstudio> cool, but yes, i understand that to do things more seriously i'd need a larger setup (the one i usually see at concerts with amps and microphones picking sound out of amps i guess)
[16:45] <holstein> fnstudio: not "at concerts"
[16:45] <fnstudio> ooops :)
[16:45] <holstein> fnstudio: thats totally different.. you want "at studios" specifically.. if you are trying to emulate what happens in a studio
[16:45] <fnstudio> ok
[16:46] <holstein> call your local studio, and go through it.. ask whats what.. ask how they would track the guitar
[16:46] <holstein> take a tour.. sometimes they have open houses
[16:46] <fnstudio> holstein: right, that sounds cool
[16:46] <holstein> fnstudio: what you are not going to do is, get *less* money together than an hour in a professional studio, and have a pro studio sound
[16:47] <fnstudio> holstein: sorry i didn't get you, can you rephrase that?
[16:47] <holstein> that doesnt mean you cant buy gear with a lot of "bang for the buck" and get nice results at home, simply emulating a pro work flow
[16:48] <fnstudio> oh sure
[16:48] <fnstudio> i see
[16:48] <holstein> fnstudio: an hour in a pro studio is typically $100
[16:48] <holstein> fnstudio: you cant take $30 and have a pro studio
[16:49] <fnstudio> yeah yeah, the important things for me are:
[16:49] <fnstudio> - running floss sw
[16:49] <fnstudio> - have the basics to start recording my guitar - i'm a beginner and really don't need (or deserve) high professional quality
[16:49] <holstein> fnstudio: but, why are you recording it?
[16:50] <fnstudio> holstein: well...
[16:50] <holstein> fnstudio: i mean, if you have $30, do you have $130? to get *much* better quality?
[16:50] <holstein> fnstudio: whats the goal? why bother if you are going to have buzz or hum.. or just a mess to work with
[16:50] <fnstudio> holstein: i'd like to record it to share with friends and build something together
[16:50] <fnstudio> hmmm
[16:51] <fnstudio> holstein: ok, let me explain
[16:51] <holstein> fnstudio: i say, a mic on an actual amp is the "best".. but, you can get an audio device with an actual instrument input for around or cheaper than $100
[16:51] <holstein> something that is intended to have a guitar plugged into it
[16:51] <holstein> a typical line in is *not* for guitar
[16:51] <holstein> that is across the board.. for all typical consumer level line-ins
[16:52] <holstein> im, again, not saying they are "bad".. they are inappropriate. the line is is for a line out from something like a CD player or tape deck.. not a guitar or instrument
[16:52] <fnstudio> holstein: hm, when you say "an audio device with an actual instrument input", isn't the behringer something like that?
[16:52] <holstein> fnstudio: no
[16:52] <fnstudio> oh
[16:53] <holstein> oh.. the guitar link.. yes.. thats for the guitar in
[16:53] <fnstudio> you should have told me that 3 hours ago! (kidding! :))
[16:53] <holstein> but, its a "one trick pony" kind of thing
[16:53] <fnstudio> ah fine
[16:53] <holstein> just a *little* more investment, and you get *so* much more.. and a better clock and all that
[16:53] <fnstudio> so it's the right tool, even though a very basic one
[16:54] <holstein> something like http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MTrack.html for example
[16:54] <fnstudio> ok, let me get familiar with US live, jack and the device i just bought - then i'll come back for more :)
[16:55] <holstein> fnstudio: you'll notice, it matches mics and lines and instruments
[16:55] <fnstudio> let me have a look
[16:55] <holstein> fnstudio: that will grow into whatever needs you have.. and im not saying just that one.. anything in that similar kind of setup
[16:56] <fnstudio> holstein: interesting
[16:57] <holstein> i used device like that might be $60? less than $100
[16:57] <holstein> its providing much more functionality than an guitar link, though
[16:58] <fnstudio> i'll save the link
[16:58] <holstein> a device like that will do "studio quality" type of recording, 2 channels at a time
[16:58] <holstein> so, stereo mics on a piano.. or in a room.. or over drums
[16:58] <holstein> you can line out of more expensive preamps.. you can plug *any* mic into it
[16:58] <holstein> the preamps arent great, but, good value
[16:59] <holstein> you can plug a guitar into it just like the guitar link
[17:00] <fnstudio> and, again to the software side, any tips on what sw to use? jack? ardour? audacity? i know they all are different tools, just wondering where to start from
[17:01] <fnstudio> but given my use case, what would you suggest i should start with
[17:02] <fnstudio> it is my understanding jack is not super-easy to setup correctly but it's the ground basis for pretty much all the other serious audio things
[17:02] <fnstudio> so i guess i should start with that one
[17:04] <holstein> !proaudio
[17:04] <holstein> i suggest, load a live CD, and learn to configure and run and setup jack
[17:04] <holstein> then, use whatever other software meets your needs
[17:05] <holstein> ardour is large, and well developed, and quite robust.. and may actually be overkill for your needs
[17:05] <holstein> its all up to your needs
[17:05] <holstein> there is not entity pre-packaging these tools for you.. for example, if you bought an interface for a windows or mac PC, you would get the unit,a nd some software that you would use
[17:05] <holstein> you would just learn to use the software.. protools LE or cubase or whatever
[17:06] <holstein> in this case, its up to you to decide what best fits your needs
[17:06] <fnstudio> (reading)
[17:06] <holstein> audacity is simple, and doesnt require JACK.. but, it really depends on what you need
[17:06] <holstein> what do i suggest? just use main ubuntu or xubuntu and sudo apt-get install audacity
[17:07] <holstein> then, if that doesnt meed your needs.. run the ubuntustudio live CD and start the process
[17:07] <holstein> meet*
[17:07] <fnstudio> ok, yeah, that makes sense
[17:08] <fnstudio> holstein: one last question: what are the advantages of running the US live vs using jack in my ubuntu?
[17:08] <holstein> fnstudio: as i said, you cant break anything
[17:09] <holstein> fnstudio: you run it live.. you literally play around and break what you like.. and you reboot, and all is well
[17:09] <fnstudio> holstein: yeah, but what could be broken?
[17:09] <holstein> fnstudio: anything, friend
[17:09] <holstein> fnstudio: jack is not trivial
[17:09] <holstein> installing and managing kernels is not trivial
[17:09] <holstein> audio production is not easy.. or trivial
[17:09] <fnstudio> holstein: isn't enough removing the .jack folder in my account?
[17:10] <holstein> fnstudio: correct, that is *not* enough
[17:10] <fnstudio> oh
[17:10] <holstein> fnstudio: its not an application like firefix
[17:10] <holstein> firefox*
[17:10] <fnstudio> holstein: because it's special access to low level things?
[17:10] <holstein> jack is an entire mess of an audio server that  you can install into your system and do *real* lasting damage, and have a bad time
[17:10] <fnstudio> holstein: i see, sounds scaring
[17:11] <holstein> jack is *great*.. i use it all the time.. its a great tool that really has no equal for me
[17:11] <holstein> fnstudio: i dont intend to be scarry... only realistic
[17:11] <holstein> why install all that into your current system?
[17:11] <fnstudio> holstein: yeah sure, and i appreciate!
[17:11] <holstein> there are no benifits..
[17:11] <holstein> why not just look live, and mess around, and learn to configure, and test the software and see what your needs are, specifically?
[17:12] <fnstudio> holstein: will the performance of a live distro be good enough for my use case?
[17:12] <holstein> fnstudio: try it, friend..
[17:12] <fnstudio> right
[17:12] <holstein> fnstudio: i use the live CD's to do *exactly* what im suggesting you do
[17:12] <holstein> fnstudio: would i want to mix a large session from a live CD? no.. would i fire up a live CD on a new machine and test JACK with a new audio device? i almost exclusively do
[17:13] <holstein> i use live CD's to see how the actual hardware works with the actual software.. whenever possible
[17:13] <holstein> this makes it easy to do large config changes and test settings and break things, and easily revert
[17:14] <fnstudio> holstein: cool
[17:14] <fnstudio> holstein: ok, thank you a lot! you gave me so many tips
[17:15] <fnstudio> holstein: i'm going to download US right now
[17:15] <holstein> fnstudio: sure, good luck
[17:15] <holstein> fnstudio: also, look at other audio distro's.. avlinux is a nice light one that runs great live
[17:15] <holstein> you can get an idea of how the other guys are doing it.. and what you might want to add to whatever disto you end up with
[17:16] <holstein> personally, i use ubuntustuduio on my main production machine.. but, i like to look at the other options and see what is going on there
[17:16] <fnstudio> holstein: sure, i'll give it a look!
[17:16] <holstein> kxstudio is a *great* one
[17:16] <fnstudio> holstein: may i ask why are you using US (or other distros) vs PC/Mac?
[17:17] <holstein> fnstudio: personal preference
[17:17] <fnstudio> holstein: i see
[17:17] <fnstudio> holstein: ok, again, thank you sooo much!
[17:18] <holstein> fnstudio: jack is quite extensible as well.. connecting literally anything with literally anything else
[17:18] <holstein> the only limitation being actual jack support.
[17:18] <holstein> can i do what i do on lther systems? sure..
[17:19] <holstein> i used to use cubase on xp.. took a lot of investment of time to migrate to linux for the studio
[17:19] <holstein> was it worth it? to me it was..
[23:58] <lucas_> Hola