* skellat just replied to an e-mail that is possibly graphics stack related that came from Jeff Hanson of Project Community Computers if somebody else could also chime in...00:21
jjfrv8bluesabre, forestpiskie, I think the only Menulibre SRU item left to be verified is bug 1313276.00:49
ubottubug 1313276 in MenuLibre "Crash of Menulibre and Alacarte due to conflict in xfce-applications.menu" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131327600:49
bluesabreelfy, jjfrv8: thanks, did verification on remaining issue.04:56
bluesabreskellat: will send a follow-up email in the morning04:57
ochosibluesabre: woo nice, all bugreports verified! (those were quite a lot)05:37
Unit193ochosi: Think either dropping the mention of compiz and recommending them to turn off the compositor may be good too.05:42
ochosiUnit193: feel free to reply ;)05:43
ochosifor me, turning the compositor off doesn't help at all05:44
Unit193Ah, "helps" with another few issues I have.05:44
ochosialso, i "heard" compiz helps05:45
ochosihaven't had the energy in a while to investigate this issue at all05:45
elfybluesabre: thanks for letting me know - the evening went bad and I got nowhere fast06:41
elfyif anyone manages to get time to do an install test for trusty daily today they are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/trusty/daily-live/20140722.2/07:02
elfythe tracker is fubar atm it seems07:03
ochosiknome: how much money is currently left in our "project fund" (the one you're currently holding from the magazine articles)09:02
knomeabout $20009:18
knomeabout $30009:19
ochosidid some of it go to pleia2 already for some marketing?09:19
knomeyeah, i've sent her some money for flyer printing09:19
ochosiah nice09:19
ochosiso theoretically we have about 300$ we could spend on bug bounties if we decided to09:19
knomeso it is about $300.09:19
ochosior were there other things we wanted to do with that money?09:19
ochosi(frankly, i'd prefer bug bounties to t-shirts)09:20
knomethere was discussion about "t-shirts for all team members"09:20
ochosiright, other than that there wasn't anything, right?09:20
knomealso, "use the money for printing material to be given away at conferences"09:20
knomewhich i think is fair09:20
ochosithen it's fine to discuss it at the meeting next week09:20
knomeif people actually go to conferences with possible target audience09:21
knomeand do spread out the stuff09:21
knomeand not keep it in their closets09:21
ochosiyeah, still, the actual impact is generally difficult to measure with flyers09:21
ochosiand yeah, even more so when they remain in closets :p09:21
knomeof course09:21
knomei'm not opposed to using them for bug bounties09:22
knomebut i do think that would have to be agreed on case-by-case basis09:22
knome...which you probably agree with09:22
ochosiyeah, i guess we can discuss the potential bugs to spend the money on09:23
ochosihowever, that might be a long and difficult discussion, everyone has different preferences09:23
knomethat sounds like going ass front in the tree09:23
elfyand the money will inevitably stay unspent09:23
knomejust discuss about bountying WHEN somebody suggests something09:23
knomeone possible way to spread the money and not be too biased09:24
ochosiactually we started compiling a list of critical bugs for xfce 4.1209:24
ochosithose could be a rather relevant target09:24
knomeis to offer first a "half" of the bounty for a bug and ask other people to chime in and give the rest09:24
knomethat would already lower the limit for other people to help financially09:24
ochosiyeah, it certainly would be meant as a kickstarter to get the bug bounty programme going09:25
ochosias it's not really looking that xubuntu will continue to have funds09:25
knomebut of course it's hard to measure "half" if we need to specify the bounty amount first... ;)09:25
knomei think that it might be possible09:25
knomeif the team wanted09:25
knomebut that would mean more of our time would go into that09:25
ochosiwell as i said, there is a list of release-critical bugs that i'd prefer to focus on first09:26
ochosifor xubuntu at this point the release of 4.12 is the thing we most direly need (to be able to stop shipping development releases)09:26
knomefor starters,09:27
knomewho would argue that's not a good focus?09:28
knomere: discussion about different preferences09:28
ochosihopefully nobody09:29
knomewhere do you have the lsit?09:29
knomealso, what are you going to do with the roadmap page in the wiki?09:30
knomeand are we going to use status.ubuntu.com tracking?09:30
ochosiuse status.ubuntu.com for what?09:31
knomefor tracking progress on blueprints09:31
ochosiright, you're mixing topics a bit now09:32
knomea bit.09:32
ochosihaven't given that much thought tbh09:32
knomewe're halfway to the cycle, so maybe next one09:32
ochosifor now it seems we're trying trello for that09:32
ochosidon't see too much benefit in doing everything twice09:33
knomei thought trello was proposed as an additional service to the tracking, but okay09:33
ochosiyeah, it was09:33
ochosifrankly, i don't even know how to set up status.ubuntu for utopic :]09:34
olbihi guys, last time I have asked, why there isn't any deb packages with polish translation from Xfce's git, which was big update on June this year. knome said that for now there isn't possible to do this, which is quite joke for me and other translators from polish team, which want some explanation about this situation09:34
knomeolbi, i gave you an explanation.09:34
knomeochosi, get the blueprints approved for utopic, and then make sure there is an umbrella blueprint that is named correctly09:35
olbiyes, but some ppl from polish team are very angry about this, cause this wasnt random update, this was very big update and fixed some annoying strings09:35
knomeolbi, the angry people should use their time to fix things then, not whine about it09:36
knomeolbi, there is no special treatment for "big" translation updates09:36
knomeas i told you before, translation updates happen when package updates happen09:37
olbiso this is some jokes :/09:37
knomeolbi, shipping a translation from a different version that the package itself is a joke.09:37
knomefor now, xfce translations are shipped per package09:39
ochosii guess the point here is that it's not xubuntu's fault that there are no new translations, but the problem is upstream at xfce for not releasing new versions09:39
knomeif your angry friends want to get the polish translations in quicker, they can change the packaging to package-independent language pack packages09:39
knome^ or what ochosi said, help fix the bugs in xfce to help new versions get released09:40
knomeolbi, or you can create a PPA with custom packaging with updated polish translations.09:41
olbihmm :P09:41
knomethere you have an explanation (or two), and three ideas what you can do to help your own cause09:42
knomenow i please would ask you to stop asking when new polish translations land in, unless you have started working with either helping xfce release, or reorganize the translations in the ubuntu archive09:43
knomeit's just wasting our, and your time.09:43
knomeochosi, to get back in the original issue at hand... what about the roadmap page?09:44
knomeochosi, it's a bit meh as it is now, would be better if it had even the deadline days mentioned, and some kind of overview (and links to blueprints and trello)09:44
knomeochosi, and i know your next comment is "you can do it" ;)09:45
ochosias you already know it, i don't even have to say it anymore09:45
knomesure, but i've done it for many cycles already, and you've picked the ripe fruit from nice organization, so it's time for somebody else to do it :]09:46
* ochosi asks the kubuntu developers09:48
knomesure, whatever :)09:48
ochosiso kubuntu only use trello09:50
ochosiknome: we already have that umbrella blueprint btw09:52
ochosinot sure what needs to be done for that to show on status.ubuntu though09:53
knomeochosi, as i told you: get the rest of the blueprints approved for utopic09:53
knomeyou'll have to poke a release team member to get that done09:53
knomesending a list of the blueprints you want approved to the release team mailing list works.09:54
knomei've done a really brief overhaul for the roadmap page now.09:54
ochosiany benefit other than having the blueprints showing up on status.ubuntu?09:54
knomenot really09:55
knomewell except when you search blueprints09:55
knomeyou can see them being targeted at utopic09:55
knomeso it's easier to catch all utopic-related xubuntu blueprints later09:55
knomeif you forgot what we did09:55
knomeyou might need to get the umbrella blueprint approved as well09:56
knomeat least it doesn't matter if it is..09:56
ochosiyeah, but frankly with the few little things we're doing this cycle, i don't see much practical benefit (if you excuse my bluntness here)09:56
knomeit's your choice09:57
knomesending the mail takes a minute though09:57
knomeand then you have it in the tracker09:57
ochosii know this is your organisational heritage, and i saw some benefit of it during the 14.04 cycle (although blueprints weren't really kept very up-to-date)09:57
ochositheoretically everything does only take a minute09:57
knomewell that's the other problem.09:57
knomeit's no use doing it if people aren't updating the blueprints09:57
knomewhich i doubt they are now that we are using trello09:57
knomewhich is why i wasn't so keen on it09:58
knomesure, it's probably faster and there are some benefits to it, but it doesn't give the same nice overview of things happening09:58
knomein real time, versus bugs as well as work items09:58
ochosii don't mind switching back to blueprints-only the next cycle if trello doesn't work well enough for us10:00
knomei'm not saying we should stop using trello10:01
knomewhat i'm saying is that the premise that was there when it was proposed to use trello was different from happened actually10:01
knomewhich is fine, but then don't say we're doing blueprints, and don't do them10:02
ochosiwell basically you're saying i didn't take care of the blueprints anymore (which is true)10:02
knomeit's not you, it's the whole team and the commitment to whatever the team agreed on10:02
knomei'm not blaming anybody, nor do i felt hurt10:02
knomejust saying that things didn't go as expected10:02
ochosiyeah, totally agree10:03
knomepeople who are close to the team can pick up changes, but people who aren't, like new contributors, can be a bit baffled by it all10:03
ochosithat would matter more if there actually were new contributors :p10:03
ochosibut yeah, i know and understand what you're talking about10:03
knomehow do you know if there would be, but they looked at the roadmap and then went away?10:04
ochosiwell frankly only looking and not asking...10:04
knomeyep: pick your tool and then use it...10:04
knomestatus.ubuntu.com is mostly abandoned by many teams anyway10:04
knomeso it doesn't really do justice to ask any team that doesn't use it if they like it or not10:04
knomei also agree it's less useful now that many teams do not use it10:05
* ochosi added it to the meeting agenda10:05
ochosibetter to discuss it with everyone than just the two of us (who agree anyway)10:05
knomeftr, i have no idea if i can make the meeting or not... :)10:05
knomeit'd be probably better to reassess it at the end of the cycle10:06
ochosiyou already made your point and as i agree, it doesn't matter :)10:06
ochosiyeah, it has to be reassessed at the end, but i'd also like to discuss how it's going now10:06
knomei don't know who it helps if we mull over it now, since people can always say they don't know how trello worked for "a whole cycle" ;)10:06
knomeno offense meant and nothing personal here either as you very well know10:07
ochosiyeah, sure10:07
knomeelfy, if i were to boot one (or two) .1 ISO tests, what would you prefer me doing?10:08
knomecan't promise anything, but i might have time in the evening10:09
knomeone more thought about progress tracking:10:12
knomewhatever software it was we used to track the process, it would be beneficial for everybody in and out the team to regularly (say weekly, or in every meeting) make sure that the tracking process up-to-date, and have somebody announce and make sure people do it's actually done10:13
elfyknome: 32 bit are lacking love12:19
knomeelfy, oki, i'll try to have a look12:22
knomenow bbl ->12:22
pleia2re: money, I was also thinking we could add a section to our website about donations - we can't accept donations directly, but if we had bug bounties we could accept small amounts to fund that, and suggest upstream projects to donate to16:16
pleia2I get asked about this once or twice a month via social media16:17
pleia2maybe even use gittip or something for folks on the team who'd like it16:18
ochosipleia2: i have been working towards this recently: https://www.bountysource.com/teams/xfce16:19
ochosithere will be a formal annoucement, i see this as our best shot to accept donations that directly benefit xubuntu without a hassle16:19
ochosiso yeah, i plan to announce it before the next meeting, so we'll definitely get a chance to realistically discuss it then16:21
* pleia2 nods16:22
ochosiwill you be able to make it to the meeting?16:23
pleia2no, it's at 3am :(16:23
ochosiwell, thank bluesabre :}16:24
pleia2it was ok when I was in germany :)16:24
pleia2I'll also be recovering from surgery (happens tomorrow!) so waking up in the middle of the night is not on my agenda for the next couple weeks16:24
ochosioh wow16:24
* ochosi keeps his fingers crossed so that everything goes well for pleia2 e16:25
pleia2thanks :)16:25
ochosii'll also send the announcement mail to the xubuntu devel ml, so if you wanna post your opinion on it there before the meeting, that would also work fine16:25
ochosibut no stress, take your time after the surgery...16:26
pleia2I'll see what I can do :)16:28
elfybah 16:52
elfybluesabre: what's this about? "[17:39] <infinity> bluesabre: If you guys are committed to a rapid testing turnaround, we can look at squeezing a fix in for you.  Looks like menulibre is only on xubuntu images."16:53
elfyif it's about getting a new menulibre in and then respun and then a whole batch of install tests being run - good luck testing the image17:00
bluesabrehey elfy17:03
bluesabreyeah, that's related to getting the fixed menulibre in for a respin17:04
bluesabreas the QA lead, what's your take?  It fixes a pretty annoying bug for the image17:04
elfyso - all the image tests I did today in between working were completely pointless17:05
elfyis my take :|17:05
bluesabreI would help with image testing17:05
elfyI'd rather have the fixed package in the image of course17:06
bluesabredid they just add the milestone to the tracker today?17:06
elfybluesabre: tell infinity to go ahead17:06
bluesabrebut yeah, I can commit to testing17:07
bluesabrethis would have been in sooner, but the bug report that I opened a month ago took its time getting to -proposed17:07
elfyas long as we get at least a couple of 32 and 64 bit tests done I'd be *happy*17:07
elfyknome: hold fire on testing till the image is rebuilt please :)17:08
elfybluesabre: yep - stuff happens :)17:08
slickymasterWorkelfy, I'll also do a 32 bit image test tomorrow17:08
elfybluesabre: I know this isn't your fault - I've not been too on the ball either tbh the last 5 or 6 weeks17:11
elfyI'll concentrate on getting image install tests done on vm's 17:13
elfyI'll be ignoring live session and post install tests though17:13
elfyI'll make sure to makr in progress things as such too17:17
bluesabreI'll do live and post since you're doing the others17:17
elfyok - thanks :)17:18
elfyshimmer-themes upgrading error "E: Internal Error, No file name for shimmer-themes:amd64"18:40
bluesabreweird, haven't touched that package in a file, did apt crap out?19:02
bluesabreoh wait, yeah, that seems like something with apt19:02
bluesabreshimmer-themes is arch independent19:02
Unit193bluesabre: You recently created seperate packages.19:02
bluesabreUnit193: they are still in utopic new19:03
elfyshimmer-themes (1.7.3-0ubuntu2) utopic; urgency=medium19:03
elfy  * Separated themes into unique packages so individual themes can be installed or removed.19:03
bluesabreoh hey19:03
bluesabrewhen did they get accepted19:03
elfysome time today I assume - it wasn't there this morning when I upgraded :D19:04
bluesabreI'll look into that19:04
elfyof course I did do a dsit-upgrade this evening to get shimmer19:04
* bluesabre updates utopic vm19:04
elfyfixed it 19:06
* bluesabre also downloads new 14.04.1 build19:07
* Unit193 downloaded, but not sure he'll get a chance.19:07
elfygot 64 bit in 30seconds19:07
Unit193cdimage never gives me full speed. :/19:08
elfywell zsync got a little bit in that time :p19:08
elfyUnit193: same - it's about ~1200kBps19:08
elfyworking on the 64 bit install tests now19:10
Unit193FWIW, systemd 208 in proposed.19:12
* elfy stopped running it a while ago19:14
elfycouldn't decide what was causing the issue here - turned out to be nouveau, not got around to using systemd again19:14
bluesabreok, so it seems apt/dpkg dislike when a package becomes a metapackage... apt-get -f install seems to fix the issue though19:16
bluesabreI'll read more into that19:16
elfy32 bit 19:47
elfywb ochosi 19:50
bluesabrehey ochosi19:51
ochosihey guys19:52
ochosihope i didn't miss too much :)19:52
ochosiremote host went down again19:52
elfyyou missed bluesabre getting infinity to respin the image and all my previous test results being lost 19:53
bluesabrekeeping elfy busy19:54
elfyso tomorrow one of the 3 of us will need to mark the tracker released19:54
ochosihow come?19:54
elfyno idea what time I'll be home from work at day end - but I can check lunchtime and do it if all is well19:54
elfyyea 19:54
ochosiand the greeter?19:54
bluesabreno greeter19:55
elfymenulibre only affects us ochosi 19:55
elfyso it was up to us if we wanted to retest19:55
ochosimakes sense19:55
ochosiforgot that others use the greeter too19:55
bluesabredownloading i386 now'19:57
* elfy is testing 32 bit now 19:57
elfysame - leaving live session and post install19:57
Unit193bluesabre: Did you not do proper breaks/replaces?20:06
bluesabreshimmer-themes -> shimmer-themes... do I need to add the breaks to each of the newly created theme packages?20:07
bluesabreI see20:08
Unit193(Don't think that's exactly the section I was aiming for, but meh.)20:09
Unit193Generally, just breaks/replaces.20:11
knomeelfy, haha yeah no problem, i'm only back now and my testing is not going to happen today :|20:35
knomeotoh, i might be able to squeeze some time for testing tomorrow, especially now that we've had respins..20:35
elfyso - just post install on 32 bit to get at least one of each done left now20:38
elfyanything else is a bonus20:38
knomeyep, but as we know, bonuses aren't bad ;)20:40
bluesabre5/5 on 32 and 64bit \o/20:50

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