[00:21]  * skellat just replied to an e-mail that is possibly graphics stack related that came from Jeff Hanson of Project Community Computers if somebody else could also chime in...
[00:49] <jjfrv8> bluesabre, forestpiskie, I think the only Menulibre SRU item left to be verified is bug 1313276.
[04:56] <bluesabre> elfy, jjfrv8: thanks, did verification on remaining issue.
[04:57] <bluesabre> skellat: will send a follow-up email in the morning
[05:37] <ochosi> bluesabre: woo nice, all bugreports verified! (those were quite a lot)
[05:42] <Unit193> ochosi: Think either dropping the mention of compiz and recommending them to turn off the compositor may be good too.
[05:43] <ochosi> Unit193: feel free to reply ;)
[05:44] <ochosi> for me, turning the compositor off doesn't help at all
[05:44] <Unit193> Ah, "helps" with another few issues I have.
[05:45] <ochosi> also, i "heard" compiz helps
[05:45] <ochosi> haven't had the energy in a while to investigate this issue at all
[06:41] <elfy> bluesabre: thanks for letting me know - the evening went bad and I got nowhere fast
[07:02] <elfy> if anyone manages to get time to do an install test for trusty daily today they are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/trusty/daily-live/20140722.2/
[07:03] <elfy> the tracker is fubar atm it seems
[09:02] <ochosi> knome: how much money is currently left in our "project fund" (the one you're currently holding from the magazine articles)
[09:18] <knome> about $200
[09:19] <knome> wait
[09:19] <knome> about $300
[09:19] <knome> :P
[09:19] <ochosi> did some of it go to pleia2 already for some marketing?
[09:19] <knome> yeah, i've sent her some money for flyer printing
[09:19] <ochosi> ah nice
[09:19] <ochosi> so theoretically we have about 300$ we could spend on bug bounties if we decided to
[09:19] <knome> so it is about $300.
[09:19] <ochosi> or were there other things we wanted to do with that money?
[09:19] <knome> mhm
[09:19] <knome> well,
[09:20] <ochosi> (frankly, i'd prefer bug bounties to t-shirts)
[09:20] <knome> there was discussion about "t-shirts for all team members"
[09:20] <knome> yeah
[09:20] <ochosi> right, other than that there wasn't anything, right?
[09:20] <knome> also, "use the money for printing material to be given away at conferences"
[09:20] <ochosi> ok
[09:20] <knome> which i think is fair
[09:20] <ochosi> then it's fine to discuss it at the meeting next week
[09:21] <knome> if people actually go to conferences with possible target audience
[09:21] <knome> and do spread out the stuff
[09:21] <knome> and not keep it in their closets
[09:21] <ochosi> yeah, still, the actual impact is generally difficult to measure with flyers
[09:21] <ochosi> and yeah, even more so when they remain in closets :p
[09:21] <knome> of course
[09:22] <knome> i'm not opposed to using them for bug bounties
[09:22] <knome> but i do think that would have to be agreed on case-by-case basis
[09:22] <knome> ...which you probably agree with
[09:23] <ochosi> yeah, i guess we can discuss the potential bugs to spend the money on
[09:23] <ochosi> however, that might be a long and difficult discussion, everyone has different preferences
[09:23] <knome> that sounds like going ass front in the tree
[09:23] <elfy> and the money will inevitably stay unspent
[09:23] <knome> just discuss about bountying WHEN somebody suggests something
[09:23] <knome> also,
[09:24] <knome> one possible way to spread the money and not be too biased
[09:24] <ochosi> actually we started compiling a list of critical bugs for xfce 4.12
[09:24] <ochosi> those could be a rather relevant target
[09:24] <knome> is to offer first a "half" of the bounty for a bug and ask other people to chime in and give the rest
[09:24] <knome> that would already lower the limit for other people to help financially
[09:25] <ochosi> yeah, it certainly would be meant as a kickstarter to get the bug bounty programme going
[09:25] <ochosi> as it's not really looking that xubuntu will continue to have funds
[09:25] <knome> but of course it's hard to measure "half" if we need to specify the bounty amount first... ;)
[09:25] <knome> i think that it might be possible
[09:25] <knome> if the team wanted
[09:25] <knome> but that would mean more of our time would go into that
[09:26] <ochosi> well as i said, there is a list of release-critical bugs that i'd prefer to focus on first
[09:26] <ochosi> for xubuntu at this point the release of 4.12 is the thing we most direly need (to be able to stop shipping development releases)
[09:27] <knome> sure
[09:27] <knome> for starters,
[09:28] <knome> who would argue that's not a good focus?
[09:28] <knome> re: discussion about different preferences
[09:29] <ochosi> hopefully nobody
[09:29] <knome> where do you have the lsit?
[09:29] <knome> *list
[09:30] <knome> also, what are you going to do with the roadmap page in the wiki?
[09:30] <ochosi> https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap/critical-bugs
[09:30] <knome> and are we going to use status.ubuntu.com tracking?
[09:31] <ochosi> use status.ubuntu.com for what?
[09:31] <knome> for tracking progress on blueprints
[09:32] <ochosi> right, you're mixing topics a bit now
[09:32] <knome> a bit.
[09:32] <ochosi> haven't given that much thought tbh
[09:32] <knome> we're halfway to the cycle, so maybe next one
[09:32] <ochosi> for now it seems we're trying trello for that
[09:33] <ochosi> don't see too much benefit in doing everything twice
[09:33] <knome> i thought trello was proposed as an additional service to the tracking, but okay
[09:33] <ochosi> yeah, it was
[09:34] <ochosi> frankly, i don't even know how to set up status.ubuntu for utopic :]
[09:34] <olbi> hi guys, last time I have asked, why there isn't any deb packages with polish translation from Xfce's git, which was big update on June this year. knome said that for now there isn't possible to do this, which is quite joke for me and other translators from polish team, which want some explanation about this situation
[09:34] <knome> olbi, i gave you an explanation.
[09:35] <knome> ochosi, get the blueprints approved for utopic, and then make sure there is an umbrella blueprint that is named correctly
[09:35] <olbi> yes, but some ppl from polish team are very angry about this, cause this wasnt random update, this was very big update and fixed some annoying strings
[09:36] <knome> olbi, the angry people should use their time to fix things then, not whine about it
[09:36] <knome> olbi, there is no special treatment for "big" translation updates
[09:37] <knome> as i told you before, translation updates happen when package updates happen
[09:37] <olbi> so this is some jokes :/
[09:37] <knome> olbi, shipping a translation from a different version that the package itself is a joke.
[09:39] <knome> for now, xfce translations are shipped per package
[09:39] <ochosi> i guess the point here is that it's not xubuntu's fault that there are no new translations, but the problem is upstream at xfce for not releasing new versions
[09:39] <knome> if your angry friends want to get the polish translations in quicker, they can change the packaging to package-independent language pack packages
[09:39] <olbi> ...
[09:40] <knome> ^ or what ochosi said, help fix the bugs in xfce to help new versions get released
[09:41] <knome> olbi, or you can create a PPA with custom packaging with updated polish translations.
[09:41] <olbi> hmm :P
[09:42] <knome> there you have an explanation (or two), and three ideas what you can do to help your own cause
[09:43] <knome> now i please would ask you to stop asking when new polish translations land in, unless you have started working with either helping xfce release, or reorganize the translations in the ubuntu archive
[09:43] <knome> it's just wasting our, and your time.
[09:44] <knome> ochosi, to get back in the original issue at hand... what about the roadmap page?
[09:44] <knome> ochosi, it's a bit meh as it is now, would be better if it had even the deadline days mentioned, and some kind of overview (and links to blueprints and trello)
[09:45] <knome> ochosi, and i know your next comment is "you can do it" ;)
[09:45] <ochosi> :)
[09:45] <ochosi> as you already know it, i don't even have to say it anymore
[09:46] <knome> sure, but i've done it for many cycles already, and you've picked the ripe fruit from nice organization, so it's time for somebody else to do it :]
[09:46] <ochosi> hah
[09:48]  * ochosi asks the kubuntu developers
[09:48] <knome> sure, whatever :)
[09:50] <ochosi> so kubuntu only use trello
[09:52] <ochosi> knome: we already have that umbrella blueprint btw
[09:52] <ochosi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-flavor-xubuntu
[09:53] <ochosi> not sure what needs to be done for that to show on status.ubuntu though
[09:53] <knome> ochosi, as i told you: get the rest of the blueprints approved for utopic
[09:53] <knome> you'll have to poke a release team member to get that done
[09:54] <knome> sending a list of the blueprints you want approved to the release team mailing list works.
[09:54] <knome> i've done a really brief overhaul for the roadmap page now.
[09:54] <ochosi> any benefit other than having the blueprints showing up on status.ubuntu?
[09:55] <knome> not really
[09:55] <knome> well except when you search blueprints
[09:55] <knome> you can see them being targeted at utopic
[09:55] <knome> so it's easier to catch all utopic-related xubuntu blueprints later
[09:55] <knome> if you forgot what we did
[09:56] <knome> you might need to get the umbrella blueprint approved as well
[09:56] <knome> at least it doesn't matter if it is..
[09:56] <ochosi> yeah, but frankly with the few little things we're doing this cycle, i don't see much practical benefit (if you excuse my bluntness here)
[09:57] <knome> it's your choice
[09:57] <knome> sending the mail takes a minute though
[09:57] <knome> and then you have it in the tracker
[09:57] <ochosi> i know this is your organisational heritage, and i saw some benefit of it during the 14.04 cycle (although blueprints weren't really kept very up-to-date)
[09:57] <ochosi> theoretically everything does only take a minute
[09:57] <knome> well that's the other problem.
[09:57] <knome> it's no use doing it if people aren't updating the blueprints
[09:57] <knome> which i doubt they are now that we are using trello
[09:58] <knome> which is why i wasn't so keen on it
[09:58] <knome> sure, it's probably faster and there are some benefits to it, but it doesn't give the same nice overview of things happening
[09:58] <knome> in real time, versus bugs as well as work items
[10:00] <ochosi> i don't mind switching back to blueprints-only the next cycle if trello doesn't work well enough for us
[10:01] <knome> i'm not saying we should stop using trello
[10:01] <knome> what i'm saying is that the premise that was there when it was proposed to use trello was different from happened actually
[10:02] <knome> which is fine, but then don't say we're doing blueprints, and don't do them
[10:02] <ochosi> well basically you're saying i didn't take care of the blueprints anymore (which is true)
[10:02] <knome> it's not you, it's the whole team and the commitment to whatever the team agreed on
[10:02] <knome> i'm not blaming anybody, nor do i felt hurt
[10:02] <knome> just saying that things didn't go as expected
[10:03] <ochosi> yeah, totally agree
[10:03] <knome> people who are close to the team can pick up changes, but people who aren't, like new contributors, can be a bit baffled by it all
[10:03] <ochosi> that would matter more if there actually were new contributors :p
[10:03] <ochosi> but yeah, i know and understand what you're talking about
[10:04] <knome> how do you know if there would be, but they looked at the roadmap and then went away?
[10:04] <ochosi> well frankly only looking and not asking...
[10:04] <knome> yep: pick your tool and then use it...
[10:04] <knome> status.ubuntu.com is mostly abandoned by many teams anyway
[10:04] <knome> so it doesn't really do justice to ask any team that doesn't use it if they like it or not
[10:05] <knome> i also agree it's less useful now that many teams do not use it
[10:05]  * ochosi added it to the meeting agenda
[10:05] <ochosi> better to discuss it with everyone than just the two of us (who agree anyway)
[10:05] <knome> ftr, i have no idea if i can make the meeting or not... :)
[10:06] <knome> it'd be probably better to reassess it at the end of the cycle
[10:06] <ochosi> you already made your point and as i agree, it doesn't matter :)
[10:06] <ochosi> yeah, it has to be reassessed at the end, but i'd also like to discuss how it's going now
[10:06] <knome> i don't know who it helps if we mull over it now, since people can always say they don't know how trello worked for "a whole cycle" ;)
[10:06] <knome> sure
[10:07] <knome> no offense meant and nothing personal here either as you very well know
[10:07] <ochosi> yeah, sure
[10:08] <knome> elfy, if i were to boot one (or two) .1 ISO tests, what would you prefer me doing?
[10:09] <knome> can't promise anything, but i might have time in the evening
[10:12] <knome> one more thought about progress tracking:
[10:13] <knome> whatever software it was we used to track the process, it would be beneficial for everybody in and out the team to regularly (say weekly, or in every meeting) make sure that the tracking process up-to-date, and have somebody announce and make sure people do it's actually done
[12:19] <elfy> knome: 32 bit are lacking love
[12:22] <knome> elfy, oki, i'll try to have a look
[12:22] <knome> now bbl ->
[16:16] <pleia2> re: money, I was also thinking we could add a section to our website about donations - we can't accept donations directly, but if we had bug bounties we could accept small amounts to fund that, and suggest upstream projects to donate to
[16:17] <pleia2> I get asked about this once or twice a month via social media
[16:18] <pleia2> maybe even use gittip or something for folks on the team who'd like it
[16:19] <ochosi> pleia2: i have been working towards this recently: https://www.bountysource.com/teams/xfce
[16:19] <ochosi> there will be a formal annoucement, i see this as our best shot to accept donations that directly benefit xubuntu without a hassle
[16:19] <pleia2> great
[16:21] <ochosi> so yeah, i plan to announce it before the next meeting, so we'll definitely get a chance to realistically discuss it then
[16:22]  * pleia2 nods
[16:23] <ochosi> will you be able to make it to the meeting?
[16:23] <pleia2> no, it's at 3am :(
[16:24] <ochosi> oh
[16:24] <ochosi> well, thank bluesabre :}
[16:24] <pleia2> it was ok when I was in germany :)
[16:24] <pleia2> I'll also be recovering from surgery (happens tomorrow!) so waking up in the middle of the night is not on my agenda for the next couple weeks
[16:24] <ochosi> oh wow
[16:25]  * ochosi keeps his fingers crossed so that everything goes well for pleia2 e
[16:25] <pleia2> thanks :)
[16:25] <ochosi> i'll also send the announcement mail to the xubuntu devel ml, so if you wanna post your opinion on it there before the meeting, that would also work fine
[16:26] <ochosi> but no stress, take your time after the surgery...
[16:28] <pleia2> I'll see what I can do :)
[16:28] <ochosi> bbl
[16:52] <elfy> bah 
[16:53] <elfy> bluesabre: what's this about? "[17:39] <infinity> bluesabre: If you guys are committed to a rapid testing turnaround, we can look at squeezing a fix in for you.  Looks like menulibre is only on xubuntu images."
[17:00] <elfy> if it's about getting a new menulibre in and then respun and then a whole batch of install tests being run - good luck testing the image
[17:03] <bluesabre> hey elfy
[17:04] <bluesabre> yeah, that's related to getting the fixed menulibre in for a respin
[17:04] <bluesabre> as the QA lead, what's your take?  It fixes a pretty annoying bug for the image
[17:05] <elfy> so - all the image tests I did today in between working were completely pointless
[17:05] <elfy> is my take :|
[17:05] <bluesabre> :(
[17:05] <bluesabre> I would help with image testing
[17:06] <elfy> I'd rather have the fixed package in the image of course
[17:06] <bluesabre> Yeah
[17:06] <bluesabre> did they just add the milestone to the tracker today?
[17:06] <elfy> yesterday
[17:06] <elfy> bluesabre: tell infinity to go ahead
[17:07] <bluesabre> but yeah, I can commit to testing
[17:07] <bluesabre> ok
[17:07] <bluesabre> this would have been in sooner, but the bug report that I opened a month ago took its time getting to -proposed
[17:07] <elfy> as long as we get at least a couple of 32 and 64 bit tests done I'd be *happy*
[17:08] <elfy> knome: hold fire on testing till the image is rebuilt please :)
[17:08] <elfy> bluesabre: yep - stuff happens :)
[17:08] <slickymasterWork> elfy, I'll also do a 32 bit image test tomorrow
[17:09] <elfy> ta
[17:11] <elfy> bluesabre: I know this isn't your fault - I've not been too on the ball either tbh the last 5 or 6 weeks
[17:13] <elfy> I'll concentrate on getting image install tests done on vm's 
[17:13] <elfy> I'll be ignoring live session and post install tests though
[17:14] <bluesabre> ok
[17:17] <elfy> I'll make sure to makr in progress things as such too
[17:17] <bluesabre> I'll do live and post since you're doing the others
[17:18] <elfy> ok - thanks :)
[18:40] <elfy> shimmer-themes upgrading error "E: Internal Error, No file name for shimmer-themes:amd64"
[19:02] <bluesabre> weird, haven't touched that package in a file, did apt crap out?
[19:02] <bluesabre> oh wait, yeah, that seems like something with apt
[19:02] <elfy> broken
[19:02] <bluesabre> shimmer-themes is arch independent
[19:02] <Unit193> bluesabre: You recently created seperate packages.
[19:03] <bluesabre> Unit193: they are still in utopic new
[19:03] <elfy> shimmer-themes (1.7.3-0ubuntu2) utopic; urgency=medium
[19:03] <elfy>   * Separated themes into unique packages so individual themes can be installed or removed.
[19:03] <bluesabre> oh
[19:03] <bluesabre> oh hey
[19:03] <bluesabre> when did they get accepted
[19:04] <elfy> some time today I assume - it wasn't there this morning when I upgraded :D
[19:04] <bluesabre> I'll look into that
[19:04] <elfy> of course I did do a dsit-upgrade this evening to get shimmer
[19:04]  * bluesabre updates utopic vm
[19:06] <elfy> fixed it 
[19:07]  * bluesabre also downloads new 14.04.1 build
[19:07]  * Unit193 downloaded, but not sure he'll get a chance.
[19:07] <elfy> got 64 bit in 30seconds
[19:08] <Unit193> cdimage never gives me full speed. :/
[19:08] <elfy> well zsync got a little bit in that time :p
[19:08] <elfy> Unit193: same - it's about ~1200kBps
[19:10] <elfy> working on the 64 bit install tests now
[19:12] <Unit193> FWIW, systemd 208 in proposed.
[19:14]  * elfy stopped running it a while ago
[19:14] <elfy> couldn't decide what was causing the issue here - turned out to be nouveau, not got around to using systemd again
[19:16] <bluesabre> ok, so it seems apt/dpkg dislike when a package becomes a metapackage... apt-get -f install seems to fix the issue though
[19:16] <bluesabre> I'll read more into that
[19:47] <elfy> 32 bit 
[19:50] <elfy> wb ochosi 
[19:51] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[19:52] <ochosi> hey guys
[19:52] <ochosi> hope i didn't miss too much :)
[19:52] <ochosi> remote host went down again
[19:53] <elfy> you missed bluesabre getting infinity to respin the image and all my previous test results being lost 
[19:53] <elfy> :p
[19:53] <bluesabre> yeah!
[19:54] <bluesabre> keeping elfy busy
[19:54] <elfy> so tomorrow one of the 3 of us will need to mark the tracker released
[19:54] <ochosi> huhu
[19:54] <ochosi> how come?
[19:54] <elfy> no idea what time I'll be home from work at day end - but I can check lunchtime and do it if all is well
[19:54] <ochosi> menulibre?
[19:54] <elfy> yea 
[19:54] <ochosi> and the greeter?
[19:55] <bluesabre> no greeter
[19:55] <ochosi> :/
[19:55] <elfy> menulibre only affects us ochosi 
[19:55] <elfy> so it was up to us if we wanted to retest
[19:55] <ochosi> right
[19:55] <ochosi> makes sense
[19:55] <ochosi> forgot that others use the greeter too
[19:57] <bluesabre> downloading i386 now'
[19:57]  * elfy is testing 32 bit now 
[19:57] <elfy> same - leaving live session and post install
[20:06] <Unit193> bluesabre: Did you not do proper breaks/replaces?
[20:07] <bluesabre> shimmer-themes -> shimmer-themes... do I need to add the breaks to each of the newly created theme packages?
[20:07] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=shimmer-themes
[20:07] <Unit193> https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-conflicts
[20:08] <bluesabre> I see
[20:09] <Unit193> (Don't think that's exactly the section I was aiming for, but meh.)
[20:11] <Unit193> Generally, just breaks/replaces.
[20:12] <bluesabre> ok
[20:35] <knome> elfy, haha yeah no problem, i'm only back now and my testing is not going to happen today :|
[20:35] <knome> otoh, i might be able to squeeze some time for testing tomorrow, especially now that we've had respins..
[20:38] <elfy> :)
[20:38] <elfy> so - just post install on 32 bit to get at least one of each done left now
[20:38] <elfy> anything else is a bonus
[20:40] <knome> yep, but as we know, bonuses aren't bad ;)
[20:40] <elfy> yep
[20:42] <bluesabre> :)
[20:50] <bluesabre> 5/5 on 32 and 64bit \o/