[09:12] ochosi: re the request to join -qa , the guy is not in -testers yet :) no mention of them on trackers, am rejecting [09:15] righty [09:15] you can also send him a message [09:15] i usually do that with people who apply for xubuntu-art [09:21] I did :) [09:29] ok cool [09:30] you should see that in mail - you're an sdmin of the lp group too [09:46] yeah, i received an email, but didn't read it :> [09:54] bluesabre: whenever you're around, care to take a quick peek at a tabwin tweak in utopic? (i can send you the diff) [09:54] ochosi: that's why I never get answers from you then :p [09:58] heh, well i just read the title of the mail and felt you've taken care of it [09:58] lol [09:58] after all you're the team lead and i'm supposed to trust you with that [09:59] the automatic launchpad emails can be taunting in quantity and boring to read in quality :P [09:59] :) [10:00] tbf - the same can be said for just about anything you care to mention :D [10:00] i guess.. but that happens a lot with LP emails [10:00] when i was the XPL, i filtered out a lot of stuff [10:03] I don't doubt it :) [10:04] soo, xchat is +5 / -6 currently [10:05] dropping or keeping is winning? [10:05] keeping [10:05] you're a bit ambiguous... [10:05] not really, the vote is about the proposal to drop it [10:05] so if you'd remember the email, it'd be clear :) [10:05] anyway, lderan's voting was a bit ambiguous [10:06] so i asked to be sure [10:06] yeah, but you said "xchat", not "the xchat vote" :P [10:06] whatever [10:06] i guess he likes to be the tip on the scale [10:10] either way, the vote is pretty close to a tie [10:10] seems to be a controversial issue [10:10] Unit193: I'm listed as a maintainer for it, not sure why svn hates me [10:10] ochosi: I'll check it out now [10:11] didn't feel well last night when I got home, so I went to bed [10:11] it's a rather subtle change, so i'm partly wondering how it'll come across on a different screen [10:11] oh, sorry to hear [10:11] bad nachos? [10:12] ha [10:13] bluesabre: diff for greybird: http://dpaste.com/0W60Q68 [10:20] ah [10:20] ok, looks good [10:20] took forever to spot the change [10:21] :) [10:21] yeah, i know it's rather subtle [10:22] don't expect me to see it then ;) [10:23] well actually it adds a little more contrast to the currently selected window [10:23] if anything, it should help you to see *that* better ;) [10:24] you mean the alt+tab switchy thing? [10:24] yup [10:24] mine has name in the 'selected' one - seems blunt enough for me :) [10:25] yeah, i know, took me a while to come up with that actually [10:25] that's good - elfy approves of that one :) [10:25] anything subtle I am likely to miss unless someone shows me :D [10:26] that's how we can sneak new features past elfy [10:26] introduce them a bit at a time [10:26] yep - my kids do it all the time ;) [10:26] :D [10:27] hehe [10:27] btw, i have another suggestion [10:27] apptitle bold, appdescription normal font [10:28] apptitle = bottom? [10:28] nah [10:28] like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-08-03-122819.php [10:29] having both bold looks.... bad :) [10:29] looks good to me [10:29] and me ... [10:29] I think :p [10:30] also, you clearly do not use application menus [10:30] anyway - have a good day - I'm off to see what Sunday does to me this week [10:30] hf elfy [10:30] ttyl [10:30] seeya elfy [10:30] application menus? [10:30] you mean like whisker? [10:30] plank [10:30] has so many icons [10:30] O.O [10:31] yeah, but my screen is sooo wide :) [10:31] a cornucopia of icons that is bluesabre :) [10:31] :) [10:31] well it helps me to keep a focus on which icons need improvement ;) [10:31] fair enough [10:31] but in that case, you should set your plank to 96px [10:31] btw, have any of you tried the list mode of alt-tab? [10:31] :D [10:32] not recently [10:32] tweaks -> cycle through windows in a list [10:32] the iconsize is currently defined in the theme [10:32] so in greybird it's 16 [10:32] with the patch for bold apptitle, that's all bold too now [10:33] 16 = too small [10:33] * bluesabre experiments [10:33] http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-08-03-123305.php [10:35] that looks ok to me [10:41] bluesabre: http://dpaste.com/238CTFH [10:44] much easier to read [10:46] ok cool, i'll go ahead and push that then [10:48] done [10:49] Noskcaj: got svn-inject to work [10:49] oddly, i can't pin chrome to plank [10:49] (and it is such an incredible cpu hogger) [10:52] fix for that [10:52] other than not using chrome you mean? :) [10:52] thats one [10:52] copy the launcher to ~/.local/share/applications and [10:52] $ diff /usr/share/applications/google-chrome.desktop ~/.local/share/applications/google-chrome.desktop [10:52] 112a113 [10:52] > StartupWMClass=Google-chrome-stable [10:56] hmm, i see [10:59] well that's not very nice of chrome [11:12] indeed [11:13] and if you don't change it locally, it gets overwritten on update [11:14] :/ [12:20] bluesabre: hm, shimmer daily ppa hasn't built for trusty in a while, what's up with that? [12:20] i mean the shimmer-themes package [12:20] the icon theme has built fine [12:23] satya disabled it since he was starting gtk 3.12 builds [12:23] s/builds/commits [12:24] I can reenable it for trusty just as easily [12:35] right, well as soon as he really starts with the gtk3.12 port, we can do that .) [12:35] :) [12:35] for now it'd be nice to get the theme updates [12:35] enabling now [12:35] i'll quickly inform him [12:36] he can re-disable when he sees fit :) [12:38] yup [12:40] so this is how the soundmenu by matias looks now: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/733715/3773756/e4d51188-1916-11e4-9ee9-8c65220b294f.png [12:40] lotsa buttons in the panel :) [12:40] or in fact: lotsa buttons in the panel :s [12:42] oh [12:42] ew [12:43] I feel like the old screenshot he had showed while we were developing was very reminiscent of the sound indicator or gnome extension [12:47] yeah, we can suggest a redesign [12:48] not sure how much luck we'll have with that [12:49] ochosi, hola! [12:49] bluesabre showed me a screenshot of the dialog buttons not being connected [12:49] that is one of the issues [12:49] and i guess tabs are the other issue [12:49] and you mentioned menu separators? [12:49] although i dunno, bluesabre do you have your utopic box handy? [12:49] yeah, those looked too black [12:49] yeah, the dialog buttons thing is a mystery for me right now [12:50] just updated my vm, restarting it now [12:50] I expect to fic it in the SASS port [12:50] they look really crappy though atm [12:50] I cannot gurrantee it will be fixed in this release [12:50] so we should try to at least find a workaround for 14.10 [12:50] yeah, they do [12:50] maybe make them look disconnected, separate buttons? [12:51] at least if we can't remove the padding between them [12:51] I tried using gtkparasite, but doesn't help [12:51] I mean it behaves weird [12:51] sometimes it is connected, sometimes not [12:51] :/ [12:52] yeah, I have already tried a lot to fix it [12:52] i thought it was just a consistent problem [12:53] I'll try to complete the SASS port soon. when is the UI freeze [12:53] 9/11 [12:53] so I have a month [12:54] Do you think we can have these ready a week in advance (9/4)? [12:54] yeah, that'd be ideal [12:54] I'll try, but I cannot gurrantee [12:54] you know, I get tired with office work and all [12:54] i presume it's not a lot of work to just fix the tabs in utopic [12:54] yeah, sure, don't worry [12:55] i mean we can do the sass port for 15.04 too [12:55] yup. so, for now, ignore the dialog box buttons [12:55] what other bug is there? [12:55] tabs, right? [12:55] i guess, bluesabre ^ ? [12:55] the menu separators also looked odd [12:55] at least in greybird [12:56] i only had a chance to look at utopic yesterday very briefly, but i'll take another look tomorrow @office [12:56] hmm... screenshot? [12:57] the menu separators look fine here! [12:57] i can only show you the screenshot tomorrow :/ [12:57] you can show me your screen though [12:58] (i looked at abiword, but i assume that they use standard gtk3 menus) [12:58] abiword does look bad [12:58] they're fine everywhere else [12:58] oh [12:58] ok [12:58] hmm... [12:58] * ochosi dislikes abiword [12:59] I'll install abiwords tomorrow and have a look [12:59] yeah, don't waste too much time on it though, it has a few theming oddities that are unsolveable [12:59] so the menus might be their fault too [12:59] yup [12:59] bluesabre: how do the tabs look? [13:00] satya: i guess if it's only the tabs, there's no rush with the sass port ;) [13:01] https://imgur.com/xo8ltwC [13:01] (also, parole libxfce4ui fixed itself, it seems) [13:01] so, we need to redesign tabs [13:01] brb in a min [13:01] search for adwaita tabs [13:02] and have a look at their design [13:02] satya: actually what bluesabre posted looks ok [13:02] so no need to redesign anything if you ask me [13:02] i saw how they look in adwaita (blue stripe at the bottom for active tab) [13:03] ochosi: numix, for comparison https://imgur.com/4ylFVnj [13:03] yeah, that's close to adwaita [13:03] but i'm not sure we have to go there [13:03] with greybird that is [13:04] don't think there's a reasonable way to reproduce this look with gtk2 [13:04] (other than using tons of pixmaps probably) [13:04] I think Moka got their gtk2 tabs to look like that [13:04] they did? [13:05] hm, snwh isn't around [13:05] but i could ask him i gues [13:05] s [13:05] I think i remember seeing them when testing a few weeks ago [13:05] i'm not sure though i even like that look 1005 [13:05] 100% [13:06] i think ambiance had an interesting look for tabs in gtk3, at least in 14.04 [13:06] we don't need to have the blue highlight [13:06] can you gimme a screenie of ambiance? [13:07] http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-08-03-150652.php [13:07] but they don't have a matching style for gtk2 [13:07] so that's also a bit sucky [13:07] https://imgur.com/0B8P3OD [13:07] ochosi, Gnome completely rewrote the tabs [13:07] Orchis ^ [13:08] we can always have a look at the code and see what snwh did [13:08] doesn't quite match their gtk3 [13:08] yeah, gtk2 is very limited [13:09] yeah, but in xubuntu most of what we have is gtk2 [13:09] https://imgur.com/2rwXipU [13:09] frankly, i don't mind the current look of greybird's tabs [13:09] but the thing is, gtk redesigned and rewrote their tabs [13:09] the issue with the current look is, it has a border at the top [13:09] sure, but it looks ok (which is the main thing that matters to me atm) [13:09] yeah, maybe we can make that border transparent [13:10] then it'd be like before [13:10] and with apps which have a toolbar above the tabs, there will be two borders [13:10] so i guess that tab bar that spans the whole width is a separate widget that we can simply set to not have a border [13:11] that border is from GtkBox widget [13:11] and it's the parent of GtkNotebook [13:12] that's also quite a new gtk3 feat then that boxes can have borders [13:12] that used to be impossible (and one of the reasons for frames i think) [13:12] no, wait [13:12] gedit https://imgur.com/kB8OZps [13:12] that looks ok [13:13] there might be a 2px line now, but that's really just a minor nuisance i'd say [13:13] v 3.10.4, might be different with actual 3.12 [13:13] bluesabre, that's a old version of gedit [13:13] yup [13:13] not gtk3.12 [13:13] well depends on whatever they decide to ship in 14.10 [13:13] ubuntu picks and chooses :) [13:13] * bluesabre tries to get latest [13:13] yeah, and ubuntu-gnome has ppas :> [13:13] the new gnome apps don't look good with current design IMO [13:14] so, I would suggest to go with gnome's new tabs design, and change what we don't like [13:15] i presume the tabs design is mostly about the code, right? [13:15] i mean we can still draw borders for the active notebook tab [13:15] which code? [13:15] so the looks can remain mostly what they are [13:16] * satya is copying tabs code from numix [13:16] or maybe i don't get what the difference really is (apart from the box that holds all tabs and the visual redesign of adwaita to only use those colored stripes for active tabs) [13:18] the tabs now span the full width [13:18] ah right [13:18] so, the current design looks really ugly for those [13:18] could you show me how greybird looks with those? [13:19] iirc in gtk2 there is no way to really have different looks for active/inactive tabs (apart from the colors) [13:20] wait [13:20] * ochosi waits [13:21] * bluesabre breaks vm [13:22] http://imgur.com/DTiksXk [13:23] this is with the current code? [13:23] no, with the new one [13:23] and how does it look with the current code? [13:23] screenshot coming [13:23] wait [13:23] ok [13:25] https://i.imgur.com/KxuleHi.png [13:25] apart from the shadow around the close button, that's actually not really too bad [13:25] so let's just fix that border around the close button and be done with it [13:26] still, doesn't fit with the whole minimal design [13:26] as you wish @ochosi [13:26] i know, it looks like gtk2 and all, but remember, the main target desktop of greybird is xubuntu atm [13:26] ok [13:26] yeah, i agree with you there [13:26] i just don't wanna end up with a visually highly inconsistent desktop for our users [13:27] when xfce is ported to gtk3, we can go crazy cause gtk2 won't matter that much anymore... [13:27] gtk4 will be out then [13:27] hehe, that's likely [13:28] satya: for numix and orion it's up to you, but if orion isn't updated in general, even there i'd go with the minimal solution [13:28] unless you want it to be used in more gnomey contexts [13:29] (i'm mostly concerned that the default look, in our case greybird, is kinda consistent, if people switch themes, that's up to them then) [13:29] ochosi, ok [13:29] greybird is pushed [13:29] would be awesome if we could fix the close button in a backward compatible way [13:29] bluesabre: wanna test satya's push? [13:30] sure [13:30] it shouldn't affect backward compatibility I guess [13:30] yeah, looks fine in 14.04 / gtk3.10 [13:30] just a tiny border on hover [13:30] but nothing drastic [13:31] gedit 3.12 looks good [13:32] parole looks fine (no difference there) [13:32] ochosi, yeah, I think the tiny border should be there on hover [13:33] I'll push some tweaks to popover [13:33] be here to test [13:33] yeesh, gedit's menu is bad with everything in a single popup [13:33] (in general, not greybird) [13:34] yeah, I agree [13:34] what's the problem with it? [13:35] https://imgur.com/hh66lGO [13:35] satya: thanks for the notebook fixes then, it's also a nice benefit having the theme work with gtk3.8->gtk3.12 practically [13:35] bluesabre: oh dear... [13:35] that's a good example of those singular menus *not* working well [13:36] the title color of the headerbar window title seems a bit too pronounced btw [13:36] but since we don't even have those in ubuntu normally, i don't worry about that too much for the moment [13:37] * satya will tweak that [13:37] so i guess we can releases for the themes today and then upload them to utopic [13:37] bluesabre: now that you've split the themes into separate packages, should all themes still have releases at once? [13:38] they're all built from the same source package [13:38] thanks satya! (actually it's both the title and its shadow that are too pronounced) [13:38] so they will all carry the same debian version number [13:38] ah ok [13:38] so better all at once thenn [13:38] yeah [13:39] gotta cook some dinner, bbabl [13:39] seeya [13:39] * bluesabre has breakfast [13:41] dudes, who will test? [13:42] ochosi, the title and shadow are same as the greybird window decoration [13:42] I reduced the shadow a bit [13:42] but the titlebar text color is still the same [13:42] I'll check it out [13:43] "has breakfast" means "eats cereal in front of computer" [13:44] so, what changed? [13:45] changing the popover to match the menu [13:45] will push in a min [13:46] ok [13:47] https://imgur.com/7rH9a20 [13:47] I think that might be what ochosi was referring to [13:47] bluesabre, hmm... will check [13:47] pushed the popover [13:47] also check the menu separator [13:47] brb [13:48] ok [13:49] abiword separator is the same [13:50] popover..? which app? [13:52] bluesabre, :( [13:52] you can test popover in the gtk3-demo package [13:53] bluesabre, can you give me screenshots of the greybird focused and non-focused window in xfce? [13:53] ok [13:56] parole preferences is the focused one https://i.imgur.com/BdfA8Bz.png [13:56] thanks [14:06] popover is grey [14:07] also, thanks for this tool... I think I'll use it to bug you and ochosi more [14:07] :D [14:12] bluesabre, which tool ? [14:12] gtk3-demo [14:13] :D [14:13] bluesabre, pushed fixes to all themes [14:13] just need to fix the titlebar color in greybird and we are good to go [14:14] cool, thanks Satya! [14:14] welcome :D\ [14:23] bluesabre, ochosi, everything pushed. we're ready to go [14:24] excellent. We'll bug you again when we need something else ;) [14:24] Thanks a lot! [14:24] sure :D [14:25] well, albatross needs a gtk3-remake ;) [14:25] I think we're dropping that one for 14.10 [14:26] noooo [14:26] you soulless monsters [14:26] I'll prepare the package in such a way that it's not pulled for new installs, but is carried with an upgrade [14:26] since I think I know how, now :) [14:26] heh [14:27] btw ochosi, I think the unfocused title color is too light [14:41] knome: i've actually mentioned that a few times in this channel already [14:41] even pinged you once about it :) [14:44] bluesabre: i guess i'll do releases of the themes tonight then [14:44] awesome [14:44] have to ask satya whether a point release for numix is ok too [14:45] oh, and if you look at the appmenu again and notice borked icons, that'd be great, cause then i'd fix those prior to the release [14:45] i'd also push updates to the icons tonight then [14:54] ok, currently working on catfish, but will try to also do that [15:01] no rush to do that *tonight* ;) [15:02] but i wanna get the themes ready, so i can tick off one of the few blueprint workitems i got going ;) [15:05] ochosi, i know, and i've replied to you, but apparently you don't read my replies either :) [15:05] heh, dunno [15:06] i really don't remember seeing a reply [15:08] bluesabre: how hard would it be to get the greeter-settings app into the archive? [15:08] It's a new app, so we have to create the package, and have two MOTU approve it [15:10] would going through debian be easier/better? [15:10] yes and no [15:10] ITP can take a while [15:10] and debian sync freeze in is in 5 days [15:10] we can try to do both though [15:11] ok [15:11] just noticed that we have that on our roadmap [15:11] i mean it's not critical, we can always postpone it [15:11] (you put it there) [15:11] yeah, let's shoot for it [15:11] but maybe we have more things to do next cycle [15:11] hehe, i know i put it there :) [15:14] bluesabre: also, the corresponding trello card is assigned to you ;) [15:16] folks, as 14.04.1 has been released already, shouldn't we remove some of this from trello? [15:16] we could keep a 14.04 SRU ToDo or so [15:16] but the 14.04.1 Done cards are all somewhat irrelevant now [15:17] right [15:17] :) [15:18] remove? what about keeping it for archival reasons? [15:19] yeah, we can "archive this list" [15:23]