=== chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun [06:56] good morning [06:56] dobey: good morning. :) === chriadam is now known as chriadam|away [07:54] is the latest devel-proposed half baked wrt developer mode? [08:23] How do I take a screenshot? [08:27] mpt, using phablet-screenshot [08:28] ogra_, thanks. But I get “remote object '/tmp/mir_screencast_768x1280.rgba' does not exist” [08:29] mpt, looks like you use an ancient phablet-screenshot version [08:29] (upgrade to the latest phablet-tools package) [08:29] phablet-tools | 1.0+14.04.20140416-0ubuntu1 | http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty/universe i386 Packages [08:30] heh, we dont update the distro version, use the PPA (as advised) ... [08:30] that would be way to many SRUs ;) [08:30] How do i debug the apn being used by the phone or ofono completely? [08:32] ogra_, is it this one? https://launchpad.net/~phablet-team/+archive/ubuntu/tools [08:32] yeah :) [08:35] i seem to be stuck in r169; no adb, and going the --bootstrap route bails with “Cannot cleanup /cache/recovery/ to ensure clean deploymentexit status 255”. Ideas? [08:36] Chipaca, I've seen that a couple of times and every time it's a rw issue. maybe try phablet-config writable-image [08:36] jgdx: no adb [08:36] ah [08:37] yeah [08:37] adb restart? [08:38] jgdx: no adb [08:38] and it's adb reboot anyway :) [08:38] as in the serice [08:39] service adb [08:39] ah [08:39] * Chipaca tries [08:40] jgdx: unknown job 'adb' [08:41] not adbd either [08:41] Chipaca, $ adb kill-server; adb start-server [08:41] * Chipaca tries [08:41] jgdx: adb: command not found [08:42] adbd [08:42] exists [08:42] * Chipaca tries with that [08:43] jgdx: or do you mean on the desktop [08:44] Chipaca, sorry, on the desktop [08:45] jgdx: still 'no devices' [08:45] seb128: ping [08:46] Chipaca, hey [08:46] seb128: morning! [08:46] good morning to you ;è) [08:46] ;-) [08:46] seb128: i've got the three packages related to the notifications settings in a ppa [08:46] I saw that (well, the was some build issue earlier when I looked) [08:47] seb128: that's now fixed :) [08:47] nice [08:47] did you address the schemas review comment as well? [08:47] seb128: I was going to try to test, but my phone is being uncooperative. The latest changes were because of issues i found in the first round of testing on the device [08:47] seb128: yes, tvoss suggested something which we implemented across the board [08:48] hi, could someone have a look at bug 1351308 [08:48] bug 1351308 in accountsservice (Ubuntu) "Changing language has no effect" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1351308 [08:48] that is, in the four related branches across the three packages [08:48] Chipaca, my review comment was like 5 hours ago [08:48] this is a regression in mako build #163 [08:48] seb128: ah, i didn't see that, where did you comment? [08:49] Chipaca, https://code.launchpad.net/~chipaca/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas/just-the-touch-settings/+merge/228317 [08:50] Laney: I know it's not usual to make changes after getting approval, but the approval you gave was removed by seb; our changes were after that [08:51] seb128: I don't understand [08:51] seb128: we were using 'postal', which you thought was bad because it being 'postal' was an implementation detail [08:51] seb128: so we changed it to be 'hub', which is a description of what it is architecturally [08:52] seb128: but you're insisting on it not having a qualifier, which i explained before is ambiguous right now and confusing in general [08:53] Laney: unless you mean the commit after tvoss's +1, which was a commit he explicitly mentions in his message prior to approval [08:54] Chipaca: I think it's weird that I approved one thing and now the names are quite different [08:54] Chipaca, is there a documentation explaining what a "hub notification" is and how it's different from a "notification"? [08:54] in other words it moved from one reviewer to another without input from the first one [08:54] Chipaca, because I don't understand what "hub" is in this context and why we need 2 types of notifications [08:54] Laney: take it up with seb128, i had nothing to do with that one [08:54] shrug [08:55] seb128, the different is simple: a notification is something that is always shown on screen as a bubble, a hub notification is something to be interpreted according to user preferences [08:55] ok, I'm going to make that simple [08:55] On the same token, seb asked for quite a specific change [08:55] we use "com.ubuntu.notifications" [08:55] tvoss, so we have no control of bubble notifications? [08:55] seb128, a com.ubuntu.Notification is a potential result of interpreting a message/notification coming into the hub [08:55] seb128, we have, on a hub level [08:55] so why is "hub" useful in that schemas? [08:55] it's just control of notifications [08:56] the fact that the filtering is done by a hub or the apps or the shell is not relevant to the settings [08:56] um [08:56] seb128: this is not about bubbles [08:56] bubbles are one kind of notifications [08:56] so we call 2 different things "notifications"? [08:56] and are the kind most usually associated with something that is just called "com.ubuntu.notifications" [08:56] tvoss: is someone looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/platform-api/+bug/1350874 ? [08:56] Launchpad bug 1350874 in platform-api (Ubuntu) "/usr/include/ubuntu/application/ui/input/event_deprecated.h:79:24: error: redefinition of ‘struct PointerCoordinate’" [Undecided,Confirmed] [08:57] Laney, it's already fixed [08:57] no [08:57] seb128, yes we do [08:57] it's not [08:57] seb128: depending on what you mean by "we", yes we do, and that's the ambiguity i pointed out and the reason we have a hub is because there are multiple ways of notifying the user [08:57] Chipaca, tvoss: is there a document that explain what is the difference between a bubble notification and a hub-notification? [08:58] seb128, quite a few [08:58] is there a simple document with a summary? ;-) like something for app writers [08:58] e.g "you want your app to notify users in this way, do that" [08:58] seb128, an app writer does not need to care about the distinction [08:58] listing the different possible ways [08:59] so why would the settings care about the distinction? [08:59] can't we just make that list a list of apps that opt out of notifying users? [08:59] seb128: because it is the settings for the hub? [08:59] and let the services use it as they want? [08:59] applications don't interact with these settings [08:59] the hub does [08:59] seb128, app authors have no control ove rthe policy [08:59] Chipaca, oh, ok, so it should be a key "com.ubuntu.hub" [09:00] it's the user deciding [09:00] How do i debug the apn being used by the phone or ofono completely? [09:00] seb128, that's too generic, we have more than one hub [09:00] seb128: it is not "the hub", it is the notifications hub, which we call the postal service [09:00] how is called the service reading that key? [09:00] laney@iota:~/temp/platform-api-2.2.0+14.10.20140801/include/ubuntu/application/ui/input$ cpp event.h | grep PointerCoordinate [09:00] struct PointerCoordinate [09:00] struct PointerCoordinate [09:00] tvoss: ^ [09:00] Laney, this should have been fixed with this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/platform-api/trunk/revision/252 [09:01] seb128: sorry, could you rephrase that question? [09:01] Chipaca, that gsettings key is going to be read by some project/codebase, which one and what is the name for that project [09:02] tvoss: nope, these are different files [09:02] seb128: the settings key is read by the postal service, that is currently in the ubuntu-push codebase [09:02] Chipaca, ok, good, so let's have ubuntu-push ship a com.ubuntu.push schemas with its config [09:02] seb128: it's emerging from ubuntu-push, but it hasn't emerged yet. At some point it might split once the boundaries and interfaces are clear [09:03] and use that [09:03] seb128, that only signs us up for the same renaming hassle you pointed out as an issue in your review [09:04] tvoss, well, at least it's specific to a project and up to the maintainer of that project to handle incompatible changes/transitions [09:04] tvoss, by putting your key in a common schemas you make it sort of a public interface [09:04] seb128, well, .hub distinguishes us and comes closer to the actual meaning of the key [09:05] seb128, we are the people doing the work in both cases, so I'm not sure private/public really matters here [09:05] seb128: I guess tedg put it in the common schemas because the settings plugin is in ubuntu-system-settings? [09:05] it's also confusing and specific to some component/implementation [09:05] seb128, it is not, it's going to be the implementation that will drive the notification experience going forward in time [09:05] tvoss, I just object making the common tree/namespace confusing [09:06] seb128, hence why we proposed .hub, which is the new component [09:06] those shared keys shouldn't be linked to a specific service/implementation, they should just common info [09:06] like a theme [09:06] or a ringtone sound [09:06] well [09:07] if it's specific to a component it should live in that component namespace [09:07] seb128, that would resul in ubuntu-system-settings being tied to a specific implementation ... sounds like a very bad idea === tvoss is now known as tvoss|test === tvoss|test is now known as tvoss [09:08] from a practical perspective, putting the schemas in ubuntu-push would mean they wouldn't get translated unless we tied up translations to ubuntu-push, which is a bit of a pain [09:09] do you plan to have a "com.ubuntu.notifications" at some point, and how would that be different from the ".hub" variant? [09:09] let me rephrase the question like that ^ [09:09] seb128: i think the first time you asked me that question i answered [09:10] seb128: although we don't have a plan for that [09:10] seb128: using it would be, at this point in time, much too confusing [09:10] seb128: for people call different things "notifications" [09:10] seb128: and this would just add to the confusion [09:10] jibel: contact whoever did the upload? [09:10] ok [09:11] Chipaca, please give me a document I can read to understand how a hub notification is different from a bubble notification, and how those are used in what context [09:11] seb128: maybe http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/platform/guides/push-notifications-server-guide/ ? [09:11] Chipaca, thanks, reading, I'm coming back to you in a bit [09:11] (hopefully understanding the topic better then) [09:12] Elleo, did you get any feedback from the media people about udm? I'll like to request a silo [09:12] Laney, as far as I can tell, the offending second declaration has been removed: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/platform-api/trunk/revision/252 [09:13] Chipaca, btw my main concern about those changes is that you are working around the issue than "notifications" is used in confusing ways rather than fixing the problem by communicating on what are the different types/finding another vocabularity for the new sort [09:13] tvoss: the header is in include/ubuntu/application/ui/input [09:13] note no android [09:14] tvoss: you can verify yourself using the info I gave [09:14] Laney, ack, then nobody has looked into it so far [09:14] please do ;-) [09:14] want to move forward soon if possible [09:16] and stuff failing is generally bad if we need a bug fix, not to mention to be able to reproduce the binaries in the archive [09:17] seb128: the whole thing is evolving and I think we're reasonably close to a clear and unambiguous way to communicate this, but we can't block on having the language all down pat to implement it [09:19] Chipaca, well, it's unfortunate that you need to a key to a shared/stable location before things settle [09:20] Chipaca, that's sort of why I was suggesting trying to take the key out of the shared location until it settle down/is likely to change [09:20] Laney, sure, but this is nothing I have touched in a while, so I need to talk to dandrader at the very least [09:21] seb128, while I can see your point, I would argue that tying system settings to an implementation-specific key is the bigger disadvantage [09:22] tvoss, Chipaca: what I don't get here is why the key wouldn't be a "things users don't want to be notified" about that would apply as well to push service than bubble notifications [09:22] like just a list of apps that the user turned off from displaying things [09:22] seb128, because the hub interprets the key and decides if a bubble should be shown at all [09:22] seb128, it's just a list right now, but it will become more fine-grained [09:23] but nothing is going to do something similar for bubbles? [09:23] seb128, not sure I understand your question? [09:23] seb128: nothing gets to present bubbles directly [09:23] seb128: in the new world order [09:23] well, what if rb displays bubbles when track changes and I don't want it to do it [09:23] (we're not there yet) [09:23] seb128, ultimately, rb will go via the hub, too [09:23] not saying that that is the case right now [09:23] k [09:24] so we are back to one list [09:24] and we can call it .notifications then :p [09:24] seb128, sorry, that's just not true [09:24] seb128: but if I call it notifications, you're going to think it's about bubbles when it isn't [09:25] why would I? [09:25] notifications is notifications [09:25] seb128: because you've gone to thinking they are bubbles 20 times since you started doing this review? [09:25] if our notifications are not restricted to bubbles it's fine [09:25] because that's what they are today [09:25] they could be launcher badges [09:25] today, they are most certainly not [09:25] or in app baners [09:25] or sound [09:26] on desktop they are [09:26] seb128, desktop is not the focus here, although it will be powered by the same infrastructure going forward in time [09:26] tvoss, I know, but we want something that works for a converged world [09:26] seb128, right, that's why we argue for .hub [09:26] so I'm trying to make sure we define things in a way that is going to work for everyone [09:27] k [09:27] seb128, sure, so do we. the desktop will inevitably change [09:27] seb128, so introducing a .hub prevents mixup until we have reached convergence, I guess that's the intention [09:27] s/guess/think [09:27] ok, let's me try to rephrase again then [09:27] if we need a .notifications.hub [09:28] it's because there is going to be another notifications.foo [09:28] what is foo? [09:28] seb128, no, .hub is the top-most decision maker [09:28] (because if hub is the only one to stand, we can as well call it ".notification") [09:28] why do we need an extra qualifier then? [09:28] seb128, because the responsibilities are different ones [09:28] no need to make type.subtype when there is only 1 subtype [09:29] it's because you object calling what comes from the hub "notifications"? [09:29] seb128, notifications is just one possible type issued by the hub [09:30] seb128, hence why chipaca originally proposed postal [09:30] k, so those are hubs objects [09:30] so, it's rather a hub.notification [09:30] so that should be com.ubuntu.hub.notifications [09:30] nope [09:30] :-( [09:30] well, we could do it like that [09:31] except it isn't called "hub" [09:31] I think that will be more inline with what we see in different domains [09:31] didrocks, got an example? [09:31] Chipaca, well, "com.ubuntu.." [09:31] mandel: nope, haven't seen ahayzen around the past few days; I could send him an email if you like? [09:32] tvoss: dbus, android application domain owners [09:32] this is just on the top of my head [09:32] can find more if needed :) [09:32] Elleo, It would be nice, that way we can confirm it fixed it and land it [09:32] seb128: oh, i know, how about com.ubuntu.postal.notifications [09:32] mandel: okay, will do [09:32] Chipaca, +1 [09:32] .... [09:33] seb128: dude [09:33] seb128: it was that 100 man-hours ago, and you -1'ed it [09:35] Chipaca, no, first version was com.ubuntu.touch.notifications and I -1ed the touch part [09:35] but yeah, .postal is not something I understand [09:36] but this whole stack of notifications which are not notifications is confusing [09:36] so let's just keep the com.ubuntu.notifications.hub we have atm [09:36] it's already in a silo [09:36] and it seems we are not going to agree on something that makes more sense [09:37] I still wish we had a "com.ubuntu.notifications" which lists apps name, simple and easy to understand :-/ [09:38] seb128, but that will grow and will be more fine-grained when we are converging. with that, we would only post-pone the namechange [09:39] tvoss, I guess I don't understand why we can't describe what we want now and define the names/keys, even if they are not used fully yet [09:39] that would avoid transitions/renames later [09:39] seb128, because we don't fully know them yet, and notifications is not the right level of abstraction to capture those [09:40] k [09:40] well, let's just go with what is in the silo then [09:40] * seb128 +1 that [09:40] now if I could get my phone to give me adb, i'd be able to do the full test to land it all [09:52] How do i debug the apn being used by the phone or ofono completely? [09:52] im not giving up :D [10:00] shouldn't adb work in recovery? [10:01] * Chipaca tries 164 [10:03] Hendrik_: /usr/share/ofono/scripts/list-contexts [10:10] popey, thx [10:10] :) [10:11] I'm not getting adb in recovery. Halp. [10:11] (this means ubuntu-device-flash fails) [10:33] my phone no longer gives me adb, not even in recovery. fastboot works. Tried flashing a few devel-proposed and devel itself using --bootstrap, all with the same effect: reaches recovery, then dies because no adb. help? === dmmp is now known as pmmd === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:04] hi ogra_, IIRC with the new developer mode UI adb is enabled/disabled, but what's the plan with SSH? [11:04] ssh is always off [11:05] you can enable it via setprop as root [11:05] dpm: we agreed a while ago that it was too many things to support to try to juggle between SSH and ADB; adb can do IP too and SSH can be enabled manually for powerusers [11:05] (for advanced developers :) ) [11:05] but it's not part of the default dev experience [11:05] well [11:05] phablet-shell uses ssh over adb [11:05] but i'm working on running that with a user owned sshd [11:06] lool, ogra_, the only issue seems to be that Qt Creator needs SSH to deploy apps to the device [11:06] (not exposed to the network anywhere) [11:07] dpm, well, bzoltan played with my changed adbd package last week ... [11:07] my only big issue atm is phablet-network since that would need the sudo password supplied [11:08] so can I not sudo once phablet-shell'ed into my phone? [11:08] (seems phablet is no longer the password)? [11:08] you can sudo ... there is no pw ... just hit enter [11:09] Sorry, try again. [11:09] (note that adb wont work if there is no pw set in the near future ... so you will have to set one yourself before enabling it anyway) [11:09] nope, i cant sudo [11:10] ogra_, what's the way to activate SSH manually? [11:10] grep phablet /etc/passwd [11:10] popey, ^^ [11:10] no results returned from that [11:11] dpm, setprop persist.service.ssh true [11:11] thanks [11:11] popey, hmm [11:11] and the same for /var/lib/extrausers/passwd? [11:11] phablet:x:32011:32011:phablet,,,:/home/phablet:/bin/bash [11:12] looks fine [11:12] and the shadow file in there has an entry too for the phablet user ? [11:13] nothing there [11:13] weird [11:13] that should have a line too [11:13] wait for mterry ... something si wrong then [11:13] *is [11:14] mpt, ping [11:15] lool, so your recommendation would be for Qt Creator to move away from SSH and use ADB instead? [11:17] ++ [11:18] oSoMoN, so with the new browser trying to scrool slow with the toolbar visible gety all jiggly ... is there a bug for that already ? [11:18] *gets [11:18] cwayne1: hey, what's up? [11:19] jdstrand: when you get a mo could you look at bug 1351041 - seems like an apparmor thing [11:19] bug 1351041 in Ubuntu Reminders app "App is unable to retrieve notes" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1351041 [11:20] oSoMoN, also, is there any way to force the toolbar to hide ? most of my html5 games look really bad now since it is permanently shown and they try to use all of the screen (so you have black bars everywhere, input controls are off etc) [11:21] jdstrand: was getting a weird apparmor denial when trying to use a scope wih online-accounts, but I think now it may just be an oline accounts bug.. [11:21] mardy: ping. Would you have time for a final review of a system settings branch? seb's been over it and we've addressed his concerns, and he approved the related schema branch, but left before top-approving the system settings branch itself [11:26] ogra_: I think it is smart to force the developers to set unique password, but it is not smart to force them to use the password unlock for the screen. [11:26] bzoltan, i fully agree [11:26] ogra_: Also I would like to ask for an option in the Developer mode page to start and stop SSH service [11:26] cwayne1: ok [11:26] bzoltan, but not my decision, talk to jdstrand, mdeslaur and victorp ... the currentl planning is an agreement between thenm i think [11:27] bzoltan, not planned :/ [11:27] popey: there is definitely an apparmor denial, but reminders is trying to do the wrong thing [11:27] I'll comment [11:27] you can sudo and setprop to enable ssh [11:27] thanks! [11:27] ogra_: if sudo works ☻ [11:27] jdstrand: mdeslaur: With the SDK we _DO_ start the ssh, because we need that [11:27] should I file a bug ogra_ ? [11:27] popey, blame mterry :P [11:27] popey, yes [11:27] against? [11:28] hmm [11:28] popey, i thinnk livecd-rootfs ... but assign to mterry [11:28] kk [11:28] bzoltan, why cant you copy via adb push ? [11:28] ogra_: jdstrand: mdeslaur: who is the one I need to convince about these two things. (1) UI switch for starting-stoping SSH service [11:29] since you need to use adb anyway [11:29] ogra_: How do I start the SSH with phablet adb push? [11:29] why would you start ssh at all [11:29] bzoltan: you need to use certs with ssh...so the developer needs to use adb first to transfer certs anyway [11:29] ogra_: because we use it? [11:30] mdeslaur, you also need root to start ssh ... [11:30] popey: commented [11:30] mdeslaur: we use keys for authentication [11:30] bzoltan, *why* do you use ssh and not adb [11:30] ta jdstrand [11:30] bzoltan: exactly [11:30] ogra_: because it is more reliable and better [11:30] define better :P [11:30] and it should not be more or less reliable than ssh ... [11:30] ogra_: but firs of all... because that is how we designed and implemented the SDK.. like two years ago [11:30] if it is thats a bug [11:31] jjohans [11:31] ogra_: let!s not change the fundamental architecture of the SDK Tools just few days before the release :) [11:32] bzoltan: perhaps I'm misunderstanding your question [11:32] mdeslaur: I need a switch in the touch UI to start/stop ssh service. [11:32] bzoltan, well, feell free to develop something on top of the planned dev mode ... i wont have the time to develop a secure debus service for ssh to expose it to the UI or anything [11:32] mdeslaur: otherwise I will do it with sudo as phablet from a script [11:32] (i'm not even done with the adb side as you know) [11:33] bzoltan: yes, doing it with sudo as phablet from a script is the right way [11:33] right [11:33] we definitely don't want users to be turning on ssh [11:33] mdeslaur: echoing a plain passwd thru scripts is the right way? [11:33] mdeslaur: that is what we do [11:33] mdeslaur, the prob here is that we need to store the pw in plain text on the users PC then [11:34] how is ssh any better in this regard? because you can ssh as root into it? [11:34] mdeslaur: why not? That is how maemo devices worked, that is how Meego works, that is how Sailfish does. [11:34] bzoltan, ogra_: well, we could ship a helper in /etc/sudo.d that would allow turning ssh on [11:35] mdeslaur, hmm ... i'm not really happpy about opening ssh at all [11:35] ogra_: filed bug 1352296 and threw at mterry ☻ [11:35] bug 1352296 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "Can't sudo on proposed image on mako" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1352296 [11:35] what do we need ssh for? [11:35] ogra_: that is not an option I am afraid [11:35] ogra_: I mean not opening the SSH [11:35] mdeslaur, no idea, adb should provide all we need [11:36] mdeslaur, bzoltan claims ssh is "more reliable and "better"" [11:36] mdeslaur: for the SDK [11:36] (of which i dont know what this means) [11:37] ogra_: mdeslaur: what I claim is not relevant.. the key here is that our SDK right now is using SSH... this is how it is out there for almost two years. [11:37] why do you two ways for talking to the phone ?? [11:38] bzoltan: what sets up the ssh keys? [11:38] bzoltan: the sdk? [11:38] this means we need to open two potential security holes now [11:38] mdeslaur: ogra_: jdstrand: All I am asking (not the first time) that before you change fundamental policies on the platform please consider how it effects the app development tools. [11:38] mdeslaur: the SDK does it [11:38] bzoltan: ok, and what is no longer working? [11:38] sorry, I lack a bit of context on what the problem is [11:39] mdeslaur, we wont have any UI to toggle ssh on oor off ... and the adb toggle is not enough [11:39] mdeslaur: it works.. I can make it work. But I need to ask and store the phablet passwd and pass it with an echo to make it work [11:39] (for bzoltan ) [11:39] mdeslaur, that means we need to patch sshd as well to listen to the screen lock and so on [11:39] mardy: ping [11:39] this isnt trivial [11:40] ogra_: why not to have an ssh switch? N9 has, Jolla has... neither the was ever compromised because of that. [11:40] bzoltan: so if we add a snippet to /etc/sudoers.d that would allow the phablet user to turn ssh on without requiring the sudo password, that would be enough? [11:40] cwayne1: pong [11:40] mdeslaur: that would make it [11:40] bzoltan, if you have time to safely hack up sshd and to implement the UI bits, feel free [11:40] mardy: hihi, so abouts scopes + OA :) [11:40] why isn't phablet-shell enough? [11:41] tahts what i'm asking [11:41] mardy: I got it working on a device, but only unconfined. and i added a desktop file to grant access, but it shows no info [11:41] jdstrand: because phablet user has no right to start the ssh service [11:41] ogra_: we don't care about screenlock, as ssh uses certs, not passwords [11:41] ogra_, there is no bug filed for the jiggliness you’re seeing, but it’s a known issue, feel free to file a bug [11:41] so, phablet-shell is what broke? [11:41] jdstrand: mdeslaur: bit the real ugly thing is the password lock... that is a killer. [11:41] mdeslaur, and why cant we do the same for adb (as we have planned since a year now) ? [11:41] bzoltan: password lock? [11:42] oSoMoN, well, as long as you guys know it and work on it i'll refrain from more paperwork ;) [11:42] ogra_: because adb uses passwords [11:42] mdeslaur: you need to have a passwork unlock policy in order to have adb at all [11:42] mdeslaur, adb doesnt use anything [11:42]