=== Seveaz is now known as Seveas
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
=== slangase` is now known as slangasek
=== doko_ is now known as doko
=== Riddelll is now known as Riddell
=== kickinz1|away is now known as kickinz1
=== Pici` is now known as Pici
=== ogra_` is now known as ogra_
=== kickinz1 is now known as kickinz1|brb
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robruslangasek, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/28614:30
* slangasek waves15:01
robru#start meeting Foundations Team Meeting15:02
slangasekrobru: '#startmeeting'15:03
robru#startmeeting Foundations Team Meeting15:03
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Aug  7 15:03:10 2014 UTC.  The chair is robru. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.15:03
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations Team Meeting | Current topic:
* xnox o/15:03
robru#topic Lightning round15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations Team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning round
robruok who is actually here for the meeting?15:03
* stgraber waves15:04
sil2100We can always shuffle from the whole list and just skip people that are not around15:04
robruok who has the whole list? ;-)15:04
sil2100Not super optimal, but it worked ;)15:04
* sil2100 looks at slangasek 15:04
xnoxand doko15:04
slangasekecho $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)15:05
slangasekcaribou sil2100 doko infinity jodh bhuey bdmurray mvo xnox slangasek cjwatson robru stgraber barry15:05
slangasekthere :)15:05
robruslangasek, thanks, I need to make an alias for that ;-)15:05
robrui guess no caribou then, so sil2100 starts?15:05
sil2100One moment!15:06
robrusil2100, sil2100, sil2100, sil2100!! go go go!15:06
sil2100- Helping out with C++ debian packaging symbols handling15:07
sil2100- Landing team work, landing e-mails, landing coordination - standard stuff15:07
sil2100- Double trainguard shift on Monday15:07
sil2100- CI Train maintenance and features:15:07
sil2100  * More work on enabling for RTM15:07
sil2100  * Adding many workarounds to the RTM branch to enable working with both LP and DF at once (no code-hosting on DF)15:07
sil2100  * More testing of a complete landing to ubuntu-rtm15:07
sil2100  * Enabling copy2distro to temporarily support the testing preprod RTM features15:07
sil2100  * Work on the twin package upload checks better15:07
sil2100  * Switching to proper distro-based silo names (e.g. ubuntu-rtm/landing-001)15:07
sil2100- Packaging advice and support for some upstreams15:07
sil2100- Discussions related to RTM support in the CI Train15:07
sil2100- Discussions regarding beta testing readiness with QA15:07
sil2100- Discussions on QA rules for ubuntu-rtm15:07
sil2100- Announcing TRAINCON-0 due to the image situation15:07
sil2100- Dealing with TRAINCON-0: pushing upstreams, information flow, decision-making etc.15:07
sil2100  * Also helping out with some of the fixes for blockers15:07
sil2100- Started review of a ubuntu-keyboard branch15:07
sil2100- Many many other things that got lost in the chaos15:07
robrudoko, you're up15:08
xnoxwhat's "copy2distro" ?15:08
dokonot soo fast15:08
doko- three days of main merges15:08
doko- various Debian NMUs to be able to drop the delta15:08
doko- more pestering about component mismatches15:08
doko- MIR's15:08
doko- working on the aarch64 multilib toolchain15:08
doko- finally finished the openmpi transition (which was started in April ...)15:08
doko- more openjdk-6 / openjdk-7 patches, mentoring15:08
doko- packaging review of some third party software15:08
sil2100xnox: it's the CI Train side that runs on snakefruit, that actually pushes the packages to the archive15:09
cjwatsonxnox: from lp:cupstream2distro - it's the privileged component that CI Train talks to in order to copy stuff into Ubuntu15:09
xnoxright. thanks.15:09
cjwatsonI believe infinity and jodh are both off today15:09
cjwatsonIs bhuey around?15:10
robrubhuey, around?15:10
sil2100Most of my knowledge about copy2distro actually comes from this week, never saw it before as this part was a bit archive-admin specific ;)15:10
bdmurrayand I heard bhuey was out from slangasek15:10
bdmurrayso I'll start15:10
bdmurrayrequested saved .crash files from a retracer for manual retracing15:10
bdmurrayresearch into armhf retracing failures on precise15:10
bdmurrayreported gdb bug 1351018 regarding threads on precise15:10
bdmurraydiscovered an issue with the retracers trying to write CoreDump to the stacktrace column family (fixed in r507)15:10
ubottubug 1352591 in apport (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1351018 apport-retrace does not update libraries in a sandbox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135259115:10
bdmurraysubmitted RT to update retracers to r50715:10
bdmurrayupdated and tested daisy using counters for "rootfs build" and "device image"15:10
bdmurraysubmitted RT to have daisy updated to r508 (counters for images)15:10
bdmurrayverified new counters exist in DayBucketsCount15:10
bdmurraypushed errors updates to be able to query for rootfs_build_version and device_image_version using the API on errors15:10
bdmurraypinged webops about the retracers being stuck (lost cassandra connection on the 3rd)15:10
bdmurraydebugging apport-retrace / gdb issue on retracers with armhf crashes (LP: #1351018)15:10
bdmurrayreported apport bug 1352591 (sandbox libs not updated) source of bug gdb issue15:10
ubottubug 1352591 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace does not update libraries in a sandbox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135259115:11
bdmurrayreported apport bug 1352450 regarding apport-retrace options15:11
ubottubug 1352450 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace should indicate that -s and -o don't work together" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135245015:11
bdmurraypinged webops about updating ubuntu_assets_url to 492 (package version selection filtering)15:11
bdmurrayupdated daisy's submit.py code to only retry retracing crashes without third-party-packages15:11
bdmurrayupdated and tested creation of SystemImages column family in daisy (r511, r512)15:11
bdmurrayconfirmed that SystemImage column family exists and is populated15:11
bdmurrayrewriting errors frontends to allow for selecction of rootfs build or device image15:11
bdmurray✔ done15:11
xnoxmvo is out.15:11
xnox* split upstart package bug #135130615:12
xnox* merge proposals to stabilise whoopsie ids on ubuntu-touch & more15:12
xnox* fixed bug #132632715:12
xnox* fixed bug #135129515:12
xnox* emailed outstanding systemd units (mostly cloud)15:12
ubottubug 1351306 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Cannot uninstall upstart and install systemd-sysv" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135130615:12
xnox* looking into 12.04.5 picked up ubiquity issue:15:12
xnox  self.controller.get_string does not work at import time, hence this15:12
ubottubug 1326327 in debhelper (Ubuntu) "dh_installinit should generated update-rc.d remove to remove rc*.d symlinks" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132632715:12
ubottubug 1351295 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "Boot fails if /sbin/init (or init= arg) is an absolute symlink" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135129515:12
xnox  broke OEM installation on 2.1 QEMU which returns a too long15:12
xnox  autogenerated hostname.15:12
xnox* today mostly coordinating EOE & fixing other spotted ubiquity UX15:12
xnox  bugs15:12
xnox* Todo for tomorrow:15:12
xnox  lvm2 merge, btrfs-tools update, mdadm update, ubiquity UX, and then15:12
xnox  EOE. :`(15:12
robruxnox, EOE but not EOL!15:12
xnox=) yeap End Of Employment15:12
cjwatsonlast team meeting!  good luck at the next gig ...15:13
slangasekindeed, good luck :)15:13
slangasekwe'll have to have the good-bye drinks in Portland :P15:13
slangasek * work to make sure all the packages on the phone have debugging symbols15:13
robruslangasek, so I know you said you wouldn't be here for this meeting, but since you're here.... ;-)15:13
slangasek * removed Qt4 from the phone15:14
slangasek * mid-cycle cloud sprint in Nuremberg15:14
slangasek  * demo of a transactionally-updated server image15:14
slangasek  * lots of good conversations around go, POWER, testing, image matrices, etc15:14
slangasek * next week:15:14
slangasekrobru: yeah, a meeting disappeared from my schedule at the last minute :)15:14
slangasek  * on vacation Mon-Thu15:14
cjwatsonCloud sprint.  Lots of discussions, some highlights:15:14
cjwatson - Worked around the sides of the ubuntu-core system-image build project.15:14
cjwatson - Discussed some image consolidation possibilities.15:14
cjwatson - Various things about containerising apps.15:14
cjwatson - Helped to generate click store keys.15:14
cjwatson - Taught Ben about Launchpad livefs image building so that he can move cloud images into that system.15:14
cjwatsonOrganised launchpad-buildd 125 deployment.  You now have more verbose build logs. \o/15:14
cjwatsonSpent about a day fixing parted bug 1352252.15:14
ubottubug 1352252 in parted (Ubuntu) "Exception during partitioning whilst utopic server installations" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135225215:14
cjwatsonFixed systemd dependency problem that broke a bunch of build-dep installation.15:14
cjwatsonReleased click
cjwatsonEven more RTM discussion.15:14
cjwatsonNext week: on holiday Wed-(next)Mon.15:14
xnoxcjwatson: \o/ cloud images on real livefs builders would be awesome15:15
cjwatsonYeah, it looks quite tractable and Ben's keen15:15
xnoxand verbose build logs \o/15:15
robru* wrote graph definitions for NFSS data15:15
robru  - Long-Running-Test for Chris Gagnon15:15
robru  - memevent tests for Chris Lee15:15
robru  - fixed app-startup-benchmark for Max Brustkern15:15
robru  - which means NFSS will shortly have support for 4 data sets once this lands.15:15
robru  - landed massive refactoring that included Jasmine unit tests for NFSS code.15:15
robru* landings, landings, landings15:15
robru* various bugfixes and tweaks for citrain dashboard:15:15
robru  - stop displaying stale spreadsheet data when backend indicates silo is empty15:16
robru  - stop linkifying parentheses around URLs15:16
robru  - sort the SVG status bubbles by size15:16
robru  - when packages are in proposed, linkify them directly to the excuses permalink15:16
stgraberVarious RTM related discussions wrt system-image.15:17
stgraberWorked on getting a basic ubuntu-core system-image.15:17
stgraberVarious LXC patches review and some fixes for the CI environment.15:17
stgraberPreparation and work on Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS.15:17
barryphone: s-i getprop test suite fix.  LP: #1349478.  system-image 2.3.2.  discussing additional improvements for various other mobile toys.  LP: #132424115:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1349478 in Ubuntu system image "/usr/sbin/system-image-dbus:sqlite3.OperationalError:_check_for_update:emit_signal:UpdateAvailableStatus:__init__:__enter__:_cursor" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134947815:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1324241 in Ubuntu system image "Collect code coverage" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132424115:17
barryother: looked a bit at LP: #1351018.  more dialer-app py3 ap merges.  reviewed xnox's lazr.authentication branch.  patch pilot.  pytest-instafail 0.2.0-2.  Python issue 21539 (Path.mkdirs() exist_ok argument).15:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1352591 in apport (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1351018 apport-retrace does not update libraries in a sandbox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135259115:17
robruyaaaay that's everybody15:18
xnoxoh. Who do i talk to to (a) make lazr.authentication project owned by lazr developers (b) make upstream release ?15:19
xnox~leonardr registered it, but ~benji is listed as maintainer.15:19
cjwatsonxnox: I'd suggest making it William's problem :)15:19
xnoxcjwatson: =)))))))))))15:19
cjwatsonWe can probably track down people to reassign things to an appropriate current team15:20
xnoxcjwatson: excellent.15:20
cjwatsoninc. pypi15:20
barryxnox: i think i have perms on the pypi project15:20
xnoxi feel like i want to finish the port up, so i'll ping wgrant/barry about things i don't have access to. =) sounds good.15:20
barryxnox: yep.  i can admin a ton of lazr.* stuff15:21
robru#topic Any Other Business15:21
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations Team Meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business
xnoxThanks everyone, it was a blast =) my last meeting for a while ;-)15:22
slangasekdoes xnox get to tell us what he's working on?15:22
robruxnox, you'll be back!15:22
xnoxrobru: we'll see.15:22
sil2100xnox: :<15:22
xnoxslangasek: which bits you'd want me to talk about? systemd? whoopsie ids? python port? rumors from the office?15:23
slangasekxnox: the last!15:23
slangasekor, I don't know15:23
slangasekthe whoopsie ids? :)15:23
xnoxslangasek: well, i emailed you brian and ev about whoopsie ids already =)15:23
xnoxslangasek: so in the office there are approximately 20 or so small boxes with bq written on them. I don't have a big enough bag to carry them all, what should I do?15:24
* xnox ponders about the post-room in the building.15:24
slangasekyes, but you haven't shared with the whole team about whoopsie ids15:25
xnox#topic Whoopsie IDs15:25
xnoxSo whoopsie when it generates crashes and submits them to error tracker uses a SHA512 hash of a "unique id" for a given machine.15:26
xnoxTypically, we want to gather sets of errors comming from the same machine, but we don't really care how it's identified (hence the SHA512)15:26
xnoxand we'd want to be able to track crashes from same machine across reinstalls.15:27
xnoxfor that we need to create unique ids. There are a few strategies implemented at the moment.15:27
xnoxon i386/amd64 product_uuid is used.15:27
xnoxhowever id generation is now a library which is used by other projects as well.15:27
xnoxfor example post-office service on ubuntu-touch uses those ids.15:28
xnox(post-office is something like push notifications to the devices I believe)15:28
xnoxso product_uuid is ./sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/product_uuid15:28
xnoxdo check yours to see what it's like =) on some of my hardware it's a generic 1234567890, but generally it's unique enough.15:29
xnoxFor virtual machines, one can pass --uuid flag to specify a product_uuid.15:29
slangasekmine says "44444444444444"15:29
xnoxOn armhf, product_uuid does not exist hence other bits of uniqueness are used - MAC address and IMEI (unique symcard modem id on GSM phones)15:30
robrumine looks mostly unique but it has a couple 'FFFF' clauses in it15:30
xnoxslangasek: hm, we should probably black list it.15:30
cjwatsonslangasek: chosen by fair dice roll15:30
stgraberroot@sateda:~# cat /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/product_uuid15:30
stgrabercat: /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/product_uuid: No such file or directory15:30
xnoxin cases where id cannot be determined whoopsie falls back through each one. However, one can also override the ID by supplying environment variable15:31
cjwatsonBasically sensible on the systems I can readily get at15:31
=== psivaa is now known as psivaa-afk-bbl
xnoxso all of above is good, however it's quite unstable ids through the lifetime of a single boot and/or other operating modes.15:32
stgraber(that system ithout product_uuid is nothing fancy, it's a 1U supermicro server I use here as a router, it's got all the other product_* files, just not _uuid)15:32
slangasekoh, see, it's a whitebox server, that's why15:32
slangasekit's not unique15:32
xnoxFor example: product_uuid is root owned file, thus regular userss for libwhoopsie cannot get the same id as whoopsie itself.15:32
xnoxalso, if network interfaces are added or removed, and/or ofono (GSM/modem provider) is started or stopped ----- the unique id changes again.15:33
xnoxand lastly if CRASH_DB_IDENTIFIER was used it's also unexposed to libwhoopsie users.15:33
xnoxI've come up with a three step plan to address above issues in the context of rtm and ubuntu touch platform.15:33
xnoxFirstly for the ubuntu-emulator, i've implemented generating uuid per instance at create time and passing --uuid option to qemu such that product_uuid exists on ubuntu-touch emulator i38615:34
xnoxSecondly for ubuntu-touch armhf, I drop whoopsie.override to export and set CRASH_DB_IDENTIFIER cause armhf doesn't have product_uuid15:35
xnoxnext, I propose changes to whoopsie to export a world readable /run/whoopsie-id with the ID it chose to use, with a matching change to libwhoopsie0 to read that "cache" file at top priority15:35
xnoxthis way all root and non-root users are aligned on the same machine id through the lifetime of boot, irrespective of ofono starting/stopping and networking interfaces changing on the fly.15:36
slangasekxnox: "export and set" - where does it get the value?15:36
xnoxand lastly, in addition to checking product_uuid, I propose to also check for /sys/class/android_usb/android0/iSerial which is Android specific serial number present on most recent devices.15:37
slangasekxnox: oh - why in /run/whoopsie-id, instead of /var/lib so it doesn't have to write it each boot?15:37
xnoxslangasek: so $ ubuntu-emulator create -> uses libuuid to create ~/.local/share/ubuntu-emulator/$NAME/.uuid & .whoopsie-id (sha512 hash of .uuid)15:38
xnoxfor i386 --uuid is passed from .uuid by ubuntu-emulator run.15:38
slangasekyep - but you said armhf doesn't have uuid, so how do you inject it there?15:38
xnoxfor armhf "env CRASH_DB_IDENTIFIER=sha512-from-whoopsie-id" is written into /etc/init/whoopsie.override as passing it as a kernel cmdline arg looked very ugly.15:39
slangasekah, so it's actually written by ubuntu-emulator into the filesystem15:39
xnox(so at create base image instance construction time)15:39
slangaseksounds pretty slick to me15:40
xnoxslangasek: re: /var/lib vs /run/ -> I am undecided. With all of the above fixes I believe ids are stable across reinstalls and hence stable on each boot, hence it can live in /run. I am open to writting ot /var/lib as well.15:40
xnoxwhich is similar to dbus/machine-id.15:40
slangasekxnox: /var/lib guarantees its presence before whoopsie has started, or if whoopsie fails to start on a reboot for some reason15:41
xnoxslangasek: true. And e.g. installers could write that file out as well.15:41
slangasekcould still be a race if you needed it on first boot, but, well, you don't have much opportunity to crash things on first boot15:41
slangasekxnox: thanks for pulling this together15:42
xnoxfor an epilogue, I'd like to mention other machine IDs used on our systems.15:42
slangasekand I think it's useful to have this explained before you go, as I imagine we'll be using it for some time to come15:42
slangasekother machine IDs> uhoh :)15:42
bdmurrayxnox: so will you switch the merge proposal to use /var/lib?15:42
xnoxdbus uses /dev/urandom to essentially generate /var/lib/dbus/machine-id. All I know dbus system daemon does not start without it. But not much else about it.15:42
xnoxbdmurray: yeap.15:42
xnoxand there is a newish systemdish proposal for /etc/machine-id, which by default is generated by systemd first-boot system unit, and is /var/lib/dbus/machine-id compatible. In the future I can see it used more universally to identify "install id" (as it's persistant for a lifetime of a single installation)15:43
xnoxand systemd also offers "boot-id" to identify an individual boot. (helpful to sort out logs/events as to wether they belong to current or subsequent boot, when e.g. time jitters as well)15:44
xnox/etc/machine-id is a bit broken at the moment as our livefs builders spit it out on disk image =) something to fix in the future.15:45
xnoxAnd that's it.15:45
xnoxMore Q&A?!15:45
bdmurrayxnox: why don't you use‽15:45
xnoxbdmurray: а зачем? =)15:46
xnoxoh, there is whoopsie preferences dbus interface through which one can query their id.15:47
xnoxit's useful to browse your own crashes on errors.u.c when authenticated.15:47
slangasekwould be good to have that on the commandline15:48
xnoxdbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.ubuntu.WhoopsiePreferences /com/ubuntu/WhoopsiePreferences com.ubuntu.WhoopsiePreferences.GetIdentifier15:48
slangasekfwiw I'm hearing reports from ogra_ + ev that the errors.u.c interface may not actually work15:48
xnoxslangasek: commandline just for you ^15:48
bdmurraywon't that be the identifier in /var/lib?15:48
slangasekI don't want a commandline just for me15:48
slangasekI want a commandline for the rest of us15:48
slangasekbdmurray: yes15:48
xnoxbdmurray: once above is merged, it indeed will be =)15:48
xnoxall of my branches are not merged yet. I'll be sheparding for them to be merged.15:48
* slangasek nods15:49
ogra_the ID seems to be changed regulary on the device or some such15:49
slangasekwhich I believe means that you'll be nagging me after you've left the company and while I'm on vacation, if I'm not mistaken15:49
ogra_(someone pointed me to a bug, got to dig it up)15:49
slangasekogra_: that part is known and is the bit we're already fixing15:49
ogra_ah, k15:49
bdmurrayslangasek: hmm? it might not work because the system identifier has changed on the device15:49
ogra_well then it should just work, no ?15:49
slangasekogra_: I thought you were asserting that crashes from a *current* run were not findable on errors.ubuntu.com.  If it's just the other thing, then yeah, it's well in hand15:49
xnoxogra_: well, i have 3 merge proposals to address whoopsie id stability as explained above =)15:49
slangasekok, so, I need to run here15:50
ogra_slangasek, well, i didnt kill any apps, so i only referred to the crashes that i saw with .uploaded suffix15:50
ogra_for these i wasnt able to find anything15:50
slangasekogra_: yes, so it's an open question whether they happened during the current boot or not15:50
slangasekanyway - thanks for the meeting all15:50
bdmurrayogra_: did you check /var/log/upstart/whoopsie.log for the OOPS ID?15:51
slangasekkeep up the great work15:51
bdmurrayogra_: then look up the corresponding oops?15:51
slangasekrobru: don't forget to #endmeeting on your way out :)15:51
robruis it over? ;-)15:51
xnoxdunno, do we have AOB people?15:51
xnox(.... before we jump)15:52
ogra_bdmurray, nope, i only checked the return value from the debus call15:52
xnoxogra_: check that ofono is running; check id from the dbus call; stop ofono, check id again.15:53
bdmurrayogra_: so the unique identifier for the crash, the OOPS ID, gets storted in the whoopsie log file. from that oops page there will be a link to the problem bucekt15:53
xnoxogra_: i believe at the moment they will be different, but with my proposed patches it will stay the same.15:53
ogra_will chefck both (once i have the time ... meetings ... )15:56
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Aug  7 15:57:57 2014 UTC.15:57
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-07-15.03.moin.txt15:57
xnoxcheers o/15:58
robruxnox, best of luck!15:58
xnoxDanke Schon =)15:58
=== chiluk` is now known as chiluk
=== charles_ is now known as charles
dholbachhello hello17:03
cubHi all17:03
elfyhi knome cub17:03
dholbachdo we have anyone here from the Xubuntu and Ubuntu Studio teams?17:03
cub<- Ubuntu Studio (though been away for quite some time)17:04
zequence<- Ubuntu Studio, as well17:04
zequenceJust wrapping up ISO testing for 12.04.517:05
dholbachall rightie...17:05
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Aug  7 17:05:11 2014 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.17:05
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick17:05
dholbach#chair elfy mhall11917:05
meetingologyCurrent chairs: dholbach elfy mhall11917:05
dholbach#topic Catching up with the Xubuntu team17:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the Xubuntu team
dholbachknome, how's life? how's Xubuntu? how was the last release? :)17:05
knomelife is good but busy, xubuntu is good even if i'm not leading anymore ;)17:06
knomeso yeah, as some of you might know, we have a new project lead since the 14.04 release17:06
dholbachknome, did you bring anyone else from the team? :)17:07
knome14.04 was great, got a lot of long-planned stuff in17:07
knomewell, elfy is kind of here...;)17:07
mhall119knome: who is the new lead?17:07
knomemhall119, Simon Steinbeiß (ochosi)17:07
knomei guess we could have announced that in the CC list17:07
dholbachah, brilliant17:07
knomei can get him send a mail to the list.17:07
mhall119I recall seeing an announcement, just couldn't remember who17:07
dholbachsure, a quick intro should be nice :)17:08
dholbachelfy, so about the hats you're wearing today? :)17:08
knomeyep, i'll pass on the message17:08
elfydholbach: heh17:08
dholbachdo you feel you got everything done for the last release as you expected?17:08
elfyQA for xubuntu during the last cycle was awesome17:08
knomefwiw, from my point of view, everything is going well with simon leading, but there are maybe a few things here and there to pass on :)17:09
dholbachwhat do you feel could work even better? :)17:09
knomei'll be around, and we're documenting our process in the wiki, so pretty much *anybody* could take the leader hat in the future17:09
dholbachthat's brilliant17:10
dholbachnothing better than having it all documented17:10
knomeit's mostly that simon leads in a different way and some minor details just need to be iron out17:10
knomeand he isn't on top of all the bureaucratic things he needs to handle17:10
dholbachah ok, so nothing in terms of the xubuntu project itself?17:10
knomeno, nothing is *wrong* :)17:10
mhall119elfy: knome: who is this dev cycle going?17:10
knomemhall119, you mean "how"? :)17:11
knomehehe, yeah17:11
knomea bit slow, as always after an LTS release17:11
knomewe have a developer with uploader rights to the xubuntu package set now (Sean Davis aka bluesabre), so in that respect, we're much better!17:11
knomedholbach, thanks for the help on that btw :)17:12
dholbachanytime :)17:12
dholbachI hope other folks will follow Sean :)17:12
elfyso do I :)17:12
knomeme too17:12
dholbachwere you able to recruit some new folks as well in the last time?17:13
knomesean was also nominated the xubuntu technical lead, so some sustainability is expected17:13
dholbachwow, nice17:13
knomeduring the whole LTS cycle (2 years), we got some new contributors, but (i think) also were able to get other people commit more17:14
knomeso while the numbers aren't up by dozens, the team feels more solid and has learned how to work together17:14
elfyknome: I'd agree with that :)17:15
knomei've no reason to expect a change in this movement.17:15
mhall119knome: Global Jam is coming up again in September, that might be an opportunity to get some people involved if xubuntu has any specific tasks that need to be done and can be done at that point in time17:15
knomemhall119, mmh, maybe... though as i said, things are relatively quiet this cycle17:16
dholbachelfy, you mentioned QA - did you make any changes to the processes there for things to turn awesome, or how would you describe what changed?17:16
knomeit's summer, and everybody has given all they have to finalize the LTS release :)17:16
elfydholbach: I think mostly it was having someone just tracking that and pushing it - constantly17:16
elfyI probably got a bit boring ;)17:16
knomeyep, elfy has done fantastic job ;)17:17
knomeit's unfortunately too easy to forget QA17:17
elfydholbach: the best bit was "found and reported 50 bugs during the cycle, that is more than for Ubuntu Desktop, Kylin Desktop, Lubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Gnome and Common Desktop combined"17:17
elfyI was really pleased with the response17:17
knomegetting the ISO/package tests in good shape has helped a lot!17:18
dholbachwow, nice17:18
knomenow we have something concrete we can point people at when they ask how they can help with xubuntu QA17:18
elfyyea - we did an awful lot of work getting the package tracker working17:18
elfywell worth it in the end17:18
elfywe made a new LP team so that people just doing QA for us had a concrete route into the Xubuntu team17:19
knomei guess getting them done is just another sign that the team is wroking well together...17:19
knome^ yep, in addition to xubuntu-testers which is an open team which membership list isn't very accurate/up-to-date17:20
dholbachis there anything you took on for this cycle which might interest new contributors?17:20
knomeeven if xubuntu-qa doesn't come with any (technical) privilege/access, i think it's proven to be an important social team17:20
elfydholbach: it's mostly a cycle of consolidation and experimentation with apps I'd say17:21
dholbachwhat's going to change?17:21
knomeand slowly continuing to improve stuff17:21
knomewe're dropping xchat17:22
knomesince it's unmaintained and all17:22
dholbachand replace it with what?17:22
knomewe have pidgin for people who need to join IRC occasionally17:23
knomeand xubuntu.org/irc/17:23
knomewhich is also linked from our installation slideshow17:23
knomewe want to see what kind of feedback we get with this experiment17:23
dholbachhow is the feedback generally? how do people let you know about their experience? (apart from filing bugs ... :-))17:24
elfywe get people in the support channel and on the mailing lists, social media (which pleia2 looks after)17:25
knomedholbach, nothing specific has been planned yet, but we have active social media outlets, so probably at least the feedback from there17:25
knomei'd imagine we're going to talk about more applications to drop/change in the future, so let's see how this goes ;)17:25
dholbachyeah, that's always an interesting subject :)17:26
dholbachis there anything you're concerned or worried about? anything the CC could help with?17:27
knometo sum it up, i think we're doing pretty good17:27
knomeif there's something the CC thinks the xubuntu team can help with (like describing our processes or sth), you can always ask17:28
dholbachand the other way around :)17:28
knome#nick ochosi17:29
dholbachthanks a lot for your hard work - it's great to hear that you're all happy in the team and happy with the results of your work17:29
dholbachand thanks a bunch for making time today!17:29
knome#action ochosi to send an imtroducing mail to the CC list17:29
meetingologyACTION: ochosi to send an imtroducing mail to the CC list17:29
dholbachmhall119, elfy: any more questions?17:29
knomeintroducing, but whatever ;)17:29
elfynot from me dholbach17:29
dholbachelfy, I realise that last question was sort of assuming you were schizophrenic, but I thought it'd be polite to ask anyway ;-)17:29
elfyha ha ha17:30
mhall119knome: elfy: you guys are doing a fantastic job, I love seeing the xubuntu project so energized17:30
elfyit feels good to be part of it mhall119 :)17:30
dholbachrock and roll! :)17:30
dholbach#topic Catching up with the Ubuntu Studio team17:30
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the Ubuntu Studio team
dholbachhello cub, zequence and everyone else who made it here today :)17:31
dholbachhow are you all doing? :)17:31
knomemhall119, thanks *bows*17:31
elfyhi zequence cub17:31
dholbachhow are things in the Ubuntu Studio project?17:32
zequenceStable, I would say :)17:32
dholbachso the last cycle was more about maintenance rather than developing new things?17:33
dholbachor could you maybe explain a bit?17:33
zequenceWell, development hasn't always hit the releases17:33
dholbachmeaning that some bits came in too late?17:34
zequencewas having a bit of a slow connection there17:35
zequenceok, better17:35
zequenceWe are few, so naturally, things go slowly17:35
zequenceAnd not all the work we do is for the actual ISO17:36
zequenceI've been studying the process of developing an Ubuntu flavor, and done some documentation on that17:36
dholbachawesome - were you in touch with other flavour developers as well?17:36
zequenceWe get a lot of help from the Xubuntu guys17:37
dholbachthat's great :)17:37
zequenceRight now, I'm mostly working on rewriting ubuntustudio-controls, while keeping the boat afloat17:38
zequenceOur desktop is to be fully synced with Xubuntus, just adding our multimedia packages on top of it, and in the future we will support the installation of more DEs17:38
dholbachthis should make the maintenance a lot easier for you, I guess17:39
zequenceI would say we are about 3 guys now who can do some packaging work, though we don't do much of it17:39
zequenceNone of us have much time, sadly17:39
zequenceYes, since we don't really worry too much about the desktop, it makes sense to not focus too much on that17:40
cubyes, that's a bit hard to get time, and with few people17:40
dholbachdo you have a list of things you would like to do, if there were more packaging folks around?17:41
zequenceI did get upload rights to the set of packages that we maintain, directly (not the package set)17:41
zequenceI guess we don't really need to do a lot of packaging17:41
zequenceWe could however help shape the whole landscape of multimedia in some respects, audio especially17:42
dholbachok, sorry... I read the above as if you have more packaging tasks than hands on deck :)17:42
zequenceI'm sure there are plenty of bugs to fix, but we don't do a lot of testing17:43
zequenceelfy has helped us a bit on that17:43
elfyor tried to at least :)17:44
zequenceand, the plan is we get more people helping out with QA17:44
elfyearly days17:44
zequenceThe big goal now is 16.04. I feel farily confident that we can achieve everything we want by then17:45
dholbachare there other things in the plans apart from making maintenance easier and add the ability to install different DEs?17:46
zequenceWe're working on freedesktop and debtag categories, to make it easier to find and sort applications17:47
zequenceThe way we achieve realtime privilege for jack needs to change, so that its the same way on all Debian derived17:48
zequenceAnd, that will mean we need to sort it out in Debian as well17:48
zequenceThat would make audio production on other UBuntu flavors much less painful to set up17:48
mhall119have you spoken with the jack maintainer in debian?17:49
zequencemhall119: not for a while17:49
zequenceIt's been something I've been putting off for a long time, but I will absolutely have it done before 16.0417:49
dholbachis there a bug tracking this work or something?17:50
zequenceNot directly. But, the issue with using audio group has been discussed17:50
zequenceubuntustudio-controls, when finished with all the features we have planned, would possibly become a preffered tool for audio newbies who want to use all the different audio servers that Debian derived has17:51
zequenceA first version will only administer realtime, and I will soon be SRUing it to trusty17:52
zequenceThat will greatly simplify audio setup for newbies17:52
zequence(who don't use Ubuntu Studio, that is)17:52
mhall119zequence: will this work impact any other DEs or flavors?17:53
dholbachoh yeah, that sounds like it17:53
zequencemhall119: It will mostly be helpful on other flavors than Ubuntu Studio17:53
zequenceOn Ubuntu Studio, the first user is in audio group, and thus gets realtime17:54
mhall119zequence: but it won't break anything or cause them to need to change anything?17:54
dholbachare you in touch with ubuntu studio users? do you have meetings?17:54
zequenceWe haven'd had meeting for a long while. We don't have much user interaction, other than on our G+, fb, mail list, and so on17:55
zequenceWould be great if we had someone who only did that part17:55
zequenceI think I will want to do that, if we have more to offer, trying to shine a light on the distro17:55
dholbachmhall119, ^ are you thinking what I'm thinking?17:56
dholbachsince we're doing these community q&a hangouts every week, I thought it might be a good idea to invite you folks to one, so you can show off some of the good work you've been doing17:57
dholbachand maybe give a list of things to think about and see if they'd be willing to help out in the team17:57
cubI have had hopes to get more involved in the community work, but time has been short.17:57
cubI had some contact with Jono before, but have not attended the Q&A for months17:58
* dholbach nods17:58
mhall119dholbach: I think so brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants our size?17:58
elfyzequence: cub I've unfortunately gtg - good to see you both, look forward to seeing what comes of it all17:58
dholbachmhall119, narf!17:58
elfyand keep in touch re QA :)17:58
zequenceelfy: alright17:59
mhall119dholbach: do we have anybody for next week's Q&A?17:59
dholbachyeah, let's have a chat and see when we can get together and bring some ubuntu studio action to the airwaves17:59
cubjust to add to the contact with users, there are some activity on the ubuntu forum as well17:59
dholbachmhall119, I don't know17:59
mhall119cub: who had access to the social media accounts/pages for ubuntu studio?18:00
cubIs that only you now zequence?18:00
zequenceme, and a couple of other people.18:00
zequencemadeinkobaia, so he can do the artwork himself18:00
zequenceholstein, I think18:00
mhall119ok, as long as it's not just one person, that can often cause a bottleneck18:01
zequenceI could give you the rights, cub18:01
dholbachawesome :-D18:01
zequenceOh, yeah, we had plans on doing youtube videos, tutorials on how to do different type of multimedia production18:01
zequencecub has been involved in that as well18:02
dholbachthat sounds like a great people could get involved with18:02
dholbachsounds like there's no shortage of good ideas :)18:02
cubnope, mostly just time. :)18:02
dholbachthat's all the questions I had - anyone else? mhall119, elfy?18:02
mhall119nothing else from me, but anything the CC or Community Team can do to help you promote your work we'll be happy to do18:03
zequenceThat's usually not the big problem :)18:03
dholbachthanks a lot making time18:05
dholbachand thanks for your hard work!18:05
dholbach#topic Any other business?18:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any other business?
dholbachdoes anyone have any other business?18:05
dholbachlooks like that's it18:07
dholbachthanks a lot everyone!18:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Aug  7 18:07:21 2014 UTC.18:07
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-07-17.05.moin.txt18:07
=== chuck_ is now known as zul_
belkinsaWoot!  The meetingology bot is back.20:35
phillwbelkinsa: it better be, or it's reserve is used :)20:37
belkinsaWell, it was gone for some time from this channel.20:37
belkinsa#startmeeting Membership Board 22 UTC Meeting22:00
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Aug  7 22:00:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.22:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick22:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Membership Board 22 UTC Meeting | Current topic:
belkinsaWho is all here for the Membership Board meeting22:00
belkinsa#chair chilicuil22:01
meetingologyCurrent chairs: belkinsa chilicuil22:01
belkinsaAny of the members of the board and the other two applicants?22:01
belkinsaWe will wait a few more minutes.22:02
belkinsaIt seem that we will not have a quorum.22:03
belkinsaWell, I will end the meeting and hope for the next time.22:03
belkinsaSorry everyone.22:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Aug  7 22:04:02 2014 UTC.22:04
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-07-22.00.moin.txt22:04
wxlnoooo :(22:04
belkinsaStay though.22:04
belkinsaI am waiting for a response from #ubuntu-rmb22:04
belkinsachilicuil said that we will vote via ML.22:05
PabloRubianesso in a few days you will get the results22:06
PabloRubianeswxl: we will procede to vote your application by email22:06
wxlthank you PabloRubianes22:06
belkinsasilverlion ^^^22:07
PabloRubianesis there other applicant but wxl here?22:07
chilicuilPabloRubianes: don't forget silverlion22:07
belkinsasilverlion is.22:07
PabloRubianesok sorry,,, the flu is killing me22:07
wxlso sorry to hear PabloRubianes22:07
PabloRubianesso you too will get the results soon22:07
wxlvote by email works for me22:07
silverlionone question if I may?22:07
PabloRubianessilverlion: yes22:08
silverlionPabloRubianes, from what I understood about the procedure of obtaining the membership here it was part of it to have the opportunity to speak in front of you folks22:08
silverlionI mean how do we aka the applicants do have a chance to interact with you to clearify things and answer questions if any?22:09
PabloRubianessilverlion: yes but as we did not get quorum to get the meeting we give you the oportunity to get the process via email22:09
PabloRubianesso you don't have to wait another month22:10
belkinsaPabloRubianes, does that mean that we can ask questions via e-mail to the applicant?22:10
belkinsawe = as in the board22:10
chilicuilsilverlion: if any of the rmb members have questions they'll ask them by email, and you'll be able to answer them there22:10
belkinsaAh, I see.22:10
wxlthat's rather lovely actually22:10
silverlionkk thank you22:10
PabloRubianesbelkinsa: yes22:11
wxlthanks all for being willing to work outside your regularly scheduled program :)22:11
belkinsaNot a problem.22:11
chilicuilyour best bet is to review yet another time your wiki so you can include as much information as possible =)22:11
wxlchilicuil: mine's already too long; don't tempt me. XD22:11
silverlionchilicuil, honestly I'd much rather convince you with my contributions than with my wiki which could be words only22:12
chilicuilsilverlion: I understand, I didn't meant to write a tesis but to make sure you include as much links as possible to your contributions ;)22:13
wxlok thanks again folks22:13
belkinsaNot a problem.22:13
wxli'm going to depart22:13
belkinsaSorry for this.22:13
belkinsaSee ya wxl22:13
wxlreally no worries belkinsa22:13
wxlconsidering my other RL responsibilities it's probably a good thing :)22:14
silverlionlucky me that I am off-duty tomorrow22:14
silverlionchilicuil, you challenged me ;) challenge accepted :P22:14
* belkinsa hides in the shadows22:14
=== noy_ is now known as noy

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