| apachelogger | allee: not really | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| apachelogger | allee: is kdepimlibs-dev installed? | 00:08 |
| apachelogger | or kdepimlibs5-dev not sure what the package is called | 00:08 |
| === S-USA is now known as SonikkuAmerica | ||
| === vinay is now known as Guest97103 | ||
| Riddell | !newversion phonon 4.7.80 | 08:42 |
| ubottu | Riddell: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) | 08:42 |
| Riddell | hmm | 08:42 |
| Riddell | kubotu: newversion phonon 4.7.80 | 08:42 |
| kubotu | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1356237 | 08:42 |
| Mamarok | question: if somebody tries a live CD and they tries to play an mp3, do they get the same possibility to install the missing codecs or does that only work on installed systems? | 09:03 |
| Riddell | Mamarok: older versions disabled that notifications but I think it's enabled now | 09:34 |
| Mamarok | so there is a file system thingy that allows to install codecs? | 09:48 |
| Mamarok | just had that question in the forum, I suggested to actually install Kubuntu :) | 09:50 |
| Riddell | there should be a notification that pops up suggesting you install codecs if you try to play one | 09:50 |
| Riddell | installing is better, there you just need to tick the "install mp3" box | 09:51 |
| Riddell | I just noticed http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-lts has been updated | 10:54 |
| Riddell | so expect LTS using people to be upgrading to trusty | 10:54 |
| Riddell | yofel: you said to maxy "You have a point though as e.g. we did not notice the ABI breakage in kdepimlibs that you found a couple days ago." do you know why that wasn't picked up by .symbol file changes? | 11:14 |
| yofel | Riddell: not really, the relevant discussion was http://paste.ubuntu.com/8035333/ | 11:26 |
| Riddell | hmm, curious | 11:31 |
| BluesKaj | Hiyas all | 11:31 |
| apachelogger | Riddell, yofel: it wasn't because vtables are not reflected in symbols | 11:57 |
| Riddell | symbols are spooky voodoo | 12:01 |
| yofel | apachelogger: yeah, I got that much, except that I have no idea what a vtable is (c++ seriously has a sepeate symbol table for virtual functions?) | 12:09 |
| apachelogger | yofel: it needs to have a separate table | 12:12 |
| apachelogger | virtual functions are resolved at runtime | 12:12 |
| apachelogger | the vtable itself is built into the binary IIRC, so you know that vt[0] is void kittens(); and vt[1] is void puppies(); | 12:13 |
| apachelogger | then at runtime any version of kittens or puppies may provided vt[0/1] of the class in question | 12:13 |
| apachelogger | now if you change the order in the virtual base class around the library will say that vt[0] is puppies and vt[1] is kittens, but the application continues to access vt[0] to get kittens | 12:14 |
| apachelogger | this is not really ABI breakage it is binary incompatible though | 12:14 |
| yofel | brrr | 12:17 |
| shadeslayer | software engineering is hard, lets go shopping | 12:18 |
| apachelogger | \o/ | 12:19 |
| apachelogger | https://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Binary_Compatibility_Issues_With_C++#The_Do.27s_and_Don.27ts | 12:19 |
| yofel | @_@ | 12:21 |
| yofel | on that point, someone write such a page for general post-release bugfixing | 12:22 |
| === soee_ is now known as soee | ||
| apachelogger | ? | 12:23 |
| yofel | Don'ts: | 12:25 |
| yofel | - remove libraries after release (even if they're not used) | 12:25 |
| yofel | maybe just a grumpy packager request though | 12:25 |
| apachelogger | there's worse things one could do I am sure ^^ | 12:26 |
| yofel | true | 12:26 |
| yofel | did our friendly kf5 upstream actually mention what they'll do should we ship kf5 components with different versions? | 12:29 |
| apachelogger | yofel: when would that happen? | 12:30 |
| apachelogger | shadeslayer: u at comput0r? | 12:30 |
| yofel | apachelogger: maxy currently doesn't update kde packages if there's nothing to update, and he did plan to do the same for kf5 | 12:31 |
| yofel | e.g. what we do with --sru | 12:31 |
| apachelogger | there's always something to update because the version in cmake always changes :P | 12:31 |
| yofel | I wonder if we whitelisted that... | 12:32 |
| yofel | apachelogger: considering he checks stuff manuall I'm not sure if he would consider that a "change" really | 12:33 |
| yofel | *manually | 12:33 |
| apachelogger | he wants to check some 100 diffs manually :O | 12:35 |
| yofel | well, he has some scripts himself, not sure how much they do | 12:35 |
| apachelogger | "afaik version X frameworks depend on version X frameworks even when they could work with X-1" | 12:36 |
| apachelogger | le not supported | 12:36 |
| tsimpson | hopefully the checks are based on tiers | 12:36 |
| yofel | ah, so that'll fail on a cmake level? | 12:36 |
| apachelogger | yes | 12:36 |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: yes | 12:36 |
| shadeslayer | we were discussing book tooling | 12:36 |
| apachelogger | shadeslayer: already resolved | 12:36 |
| shadeslayer | ok | 12:37 |
| apachelogger | framework cmakelists have one var for version | 12:37 |
| apachelogger | that is defined to both define the framework's version and the versions it will look for in other frameworks | 12:37 |
| yofel | ok, thanks | 12:38 |
| yofel | hm | 12:41 |
| yofel | but that would still only require updating those packages that are required by the higher tiers. And the leaf packages are easy to skip as nothing depends on them | 12:41 |
| yofel | could get messy up higher though | 12:42 |
| apachelogger | yofel: IMO this should be brought up with dfaure | 12:45 |
| apachelogger | if a leaf doesn't have changes one mmight as well not updated it upstream | 12:45 |
| apachelogger | I am reasonable certain one would not want to support that though | 12:45 |
| apachelogger | leaf libs are like 10kb or so | 12:45 |
| === dodger is now known as Guest60056 | ||
| shadeslayer | Riddell: :O | 13:05 |
| shadeslayer | Riddell: you dragonnapped konqi | 13:05 |
| yofel | :O | 13:06 |
| shadeslayer | https://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/14882348636 | 13:06 |
| shadeslayer | someone get to the barcelona office quick | 13:06 |
| shadeslayer | konqi needs help | 13:06 |
| yofel | apachelogger: you would already be happy if we just copied our current packaging into a branch on alioth right? | 13:22 |
| * yofel wonders if pino has any intention of commenting at all | 13:23 | |
| Riddell | shadeslayer: he's sight seeing! | 13:26 |
| shadeslayer | :D | 13:31 |
| shadeslayer | Riddell: that's what you say | 13:32 |
| shadeslayer | yofel: apachelogger found wine | 13:32 |
| shadeslayer | yofel: you can forget about hearing from him for the rest of the day | 13:32 |
| yofel | damint :D | 13:32 |
| apachelogger | it magically appeared! | 13:35 |
| apachelogger | yofel: yes | 13:35 |
| yofel | good | 13:35 |
| apachelogger | yofel: from where I am standing we need to start at some point otherwise we'll never find the perfect setup xD | 13:35 |
| apachelogger | and meddling with branch layout etc. later is not that big a deal | 13:36 |
| yofel | yeah, my last mail pretty much reduced the proposal to that | 13:36 |
| Riddell | anyone know why we do multiarch? what's it actually good for? | 13:52 |
| valorie | don't listen to him, he's a konqui-kidnapper! | 13:55 |
| valorie | dangerous Scot | 13:55 |
| Riddell | valorie: I'm Catalunyan now, father of dragons! | 14:00 |
| valorie | I heard that now that Scotland is sorted, you were going to Solve Catalonia | 14:01 |
| valorie | good luck with that! | 14:01 |
| valorie | how is the catalunyan whisky btw? | 14:02 |
| apachelogger | valorie: u not working! | 14:04 |
| valorie | if typing: work(true) | 14:04 |
| valorie | so there | 14:05 |
| Riddell | valorie: they seem to mostly sell all the stuff which is so bad it doesn't get sold in scotland | 14:18 |
| valorie | I hope you are surviving.... | 14:19 |
| Odur | libnepomuk4 got uninstalld when upgraded to 4.13.97. Is that suppose to happen? | 14:22 |
| Riddell | valorie: I've discovered that when you order a rum and coke here, they take the exact opposite approach to scotland for ratios of coke to rum | 14:22 |
| valorie | ewww, rum and coke | 14:22 |
| Riddell | Odur: yes it's expected, will you miss it? | 14:23 |
| valorie | solution: get something else | 14:23 |
| Riddell | or gun and tonic | 14:23 |
| Odur | Riddell: Yeah. Kdenlive depends on it | 14:23 |
| Riddell | gin and tonic | 14:23 |
| Odur | But I'll manage | 14:23 |
| Riddell | Odur: kdenlive in backports is recompiled not to use it, where are you getting it from? | 14:23 |
| Odur | kdenlive's own repository | 14:24 |
| Odur | Well, I could probably use Utopics package | 14:25 |
| Odur | Problem solved :) | 14:28 |
| Riddell | kdenlive has its own repository? | 14:29 |
| Riddell | where's this? | 14:29 |
| shadeslayer | I can poke the kdenlive folks | 14:29 |
| Riddell | hmm https://launchpad.net/~sunab/+archive/ubuntu/kdenlive-release | 14:33 |
| valorie | Riddell: they are here refactoring | 14:34 |
| Riddell | ah, that archive has 0.9.8 which is newer than the 0.9.6 in our kubuntu-ppa/backports | 14:34 |
| Odur | Yeah, that's the one. (And no problem solved here... must solve a lot of dependencies first :/) | 14:34 |
| Riddell | so only 1 thing for it, backport 0.9.8 | 14:35 |
| Riddell | volunteers welcome :) | 14:35 |
| Odur | Well, I probably could packport to my own ppa. But I'm not confident to do a official one | 14:38 |
| Riddell | Odur: go for it, then I can take it from yours and check for sanity | 14:47 |
| Odur | Riddell: Is it possible to find the diff for an earlier version in the backports ppa? | 14:53 |
| Riddell | Odur: probably not, what are you looking for? | 15:08 |
| Riddell | Odur: to backport 0.9.8 take the package from utopic run dch to add a ~ubuntu14.04~ppa1 version and compile that on trusty | 15:09 |
| Odur | Ok | 15:09 |
| Riddell | ** proofreads needed for this blog https://notes.kde.org/p/jriddell-blog | 15:09 |
| Riddell | it's about all the work it takes to make packages for kubuntu | 15:09 |
| turgay | what is the problem ? | 15:13 |
| turgay | http://s22.postimg.org/5ksapuich/ekran_g_r_nt_s_1.png | 15:13 |
| turgay | kubuntu 14.04 Sürüm 36.0.1985.125 Ubuntu 14.04 (283153) chromium | 15:13 |
| Riddell | turgay: best use #kubuntu for user support | 15:15 |
| turgay | ok | 15:15 |
| Odur | Riddell: got "kdenlive (0.9.8-1ubuntu3) UNRELEASED; urgency=medium". Probably because I upgraded to 4.13.97 right? Just change it to "kdenlive (0.9.8-1ubuntu3~ubuntu14.04~ppa1) trusty; urgency=medium" ? | 15:18 |
| yofel | 0.9.8-1ubuntu2~ubuntu14.04~ppa1, the 3 got auto incremented which you don't want for backports | 15:21 |
| Odur | yofel: thanks | 15:23 |
| Odur | Well, uploaded to my ppa. Let's see if I fckd up ;) | 15:28 |
| Odur | Oops. Didn't notice. My name "Carslöv" got changed to "Carsloev". :/ | 15:30 |
| Riddell | Odur: but it got accepted? where's your PPA? | 15:34 |
| Odur | Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~odur/+archive/ubuntu/backports | 15:44 |
| Riddell | Odur: lovely, does it install and run? | 15:45 |
| Odur | I'm on it | 15:46 |
| Odur | just a minute | 15:46 |
| Odur | Riddell: Nope. Complaining about libnepomuk4 | 15:49 |
| valorie | this is interesting: | 15:53 |
| valorie | [08:47] <hggdh> both gksu and gksudo are being ousted | 15:53 |
| valorie | [08:48] <hggdh> pkexec is being promoted in their place | 15:53 |
| valorie | from the #ubuntu-ops | 15:53 |
| valorie | http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/en/man1/pkexec.1.html | 15:54 |
| shadeslayer | hm | 16:01 |
| shadeslayer | should I idle in #ubuntu-ops | 16:01 |
| shadeslayer | since I have ops in #kubuntu | 16:01 |
| valorie | I was asked to do so, so I do | 16:02 |
| shadeslayer | *shrug* then, one person is enough I think | 16:03 |
| Riddell | Odur: oh your PPA will need to depend on backports PPA | 16:05 |
| Riddell | >pkexec dolphin | 16:06 |
| Riddell | dolphin: cannot connect to X server | 16:06 |
| Riddell | not much use that | 16:06 |
| Odur | Riddell: That's over my pay grade ;) | 16:10 |
| Riddell | Odur: yep I'll take it from here, thanks for your help | 16:11 |
| Odur | Np | 16:11 |
| Riddell | https://twitter.com/kdecommunity/status/499573190352699392/photo/1 lots of children in randa, a new addition to KDE scene? | 16:11 |
| Odur | Riddell: Can I delete the package from my ppa then? | 16:11 |
| valorie | shadeslayer: if you have room in your chanlist, sure | 16:12 |
| shadeslayer | valorie: nope :p | 16:12 |
| shadeslayer | too many chans | 16:12 |
| valorie | I keep shaving chans as well | 16:12 |
| shadeslayer | I need to cut down | 16:12 |
| valorie | yes, lots of kids this year | 16:12 |
| valorie | all very well-behaved | 16:13 |
| Riddell | Odur: if you want | 16:14 |
| * Riddell blogs https://blogs.kde.org/2014/08/13/upstream-and-downstream-why-packaging-takes-time | 16:18 | |
| * Riddell blogs http://wire.kubuntu.org/?p=175 | 16:25 | |
| Riddell | 17:18 * Riddell blogs https://blogs.kde.org/2014/08/13/upstream-and-downstream-why-packaging-takes-time | 16:25 |
| Riddell | just incase you missed it shadeslayer :) | 16:25 |
| Odur | How do I get a pbuilder-dist depend on kubuntu-backports? | 16:25 |
| yofel | Odur: with pbuilder it would be login --save-after-login, then in there edit the sources.list | 16:31 |
| soee | Riddell: the packaging for Kubuntu is much different from Arch packages ? | 16:31 |
| Riddell | soee: probably yes, I've never looked at Arch but I think they have pretty monolithic packages | 16:32 |
| soee | i wonder if for Kubuntu it would be possible to have package maintainers liek in Arch i think - there each package is maintained by some person right ? | 16:33 |
| Riddell | that's one of the issues ubuntu always wanted to avoid which debian has | 16:34 |
| Riddell | if one person blocks then the whole archive slows down | 16:34 |
| Odur | yofel: Thanks | 16:35 |
| yofel | soee: considering we maintain some ~250 packages that's... slightly problematic | 16:37 |
| yofel | even in debian which has package maintainers kde is maintained by the debian-qt-kde team, and usually updated by 1 or 2 people | 16:37 |
| yofel | (250 is a wild guess, it should be more than that) | 16:37 |
| soee | yofel: problematic to find those potential people? | 16:39 |
| yofel | well yeah, you roughly know how large the team is and not everyone focuses on packaging (or even on kubuntu) | 16:40 |
| yofel | so team management is the sane thing to do | 16:40 |
| yofel | even if you would tell people to adopt a package, the work required to update a package varies greatly (e.g. compare kfloppy and kde-workspace) | 16:41 |
| yofel | and as lots of work is scripted these days, some packages don't even need a human to maintain them | 16:41 |
| Riddell | but the scripts do :) | 16:41 |
| soee | :) | 16:42 |
| yofel | that's true ^^ | 16:42 |
| santa | talking about scripting, a couple fo days ago I tried to clone the kubuntu-automation repository but I couldn't | 16:57 |
| santa | $ bzr branch lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kubuntu-automation | 16:59 |
| santa | bzr: ERROR: No es una rama: «bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kubuntu-automation/»: location is a repository. | 16:59 |
| Riddell | soee: lp:~kubuntu-packagers/+junk/kubuntu-automation | 16:59 |
| yofel | the "kubuntu-packaging" projects is solely for packaging branches | 16:59 |
| Riddell | santa: rather ↑ | 17:01 |
| santa | Riddell: thanks, I have something similar for siduction and I think I have some things which may be interesting to share | 17:05 |
| Riddell | santa: I'd also be interested in any other comments on that blog of mine | 17:05 |
| santa | you mean the "Upstream and Downstream: ..." post I guess | 17:09 |
| santa | seems interesting, I will download it to read this night | 17:10 |
| santa | (I don't have my own internet connection in august) | 17:10 |
| yofel | santa: are your scripts somewhere public? | 17:11 |
| santa | yeah, I have started to push it to a git repository because they got non-trivial | 17:13 |
| Riddell | I've been using your frameworks dot diagram, lots of deps there | 17:13 |
| santa | oh, soon enough I will have some stuff to generate the dot file automatically | 17:14 |
| santa | https://gitorious.org/siduction-kde-kf5/siduction-kde-pkg-scripts | 17:15 |
| santa | yofel: ↑ | 17:15 |
| yofel | thanks | 17:15 |
| Riddell | Odur: if you're on trusty would you be able to verify this update at all? bug 1352397 | 17:17 |
| ubottu | bug 1352397 in libkscreen (Ubuntu Trusty) "Please update to libkscreen 1.0.5" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1352397 | 17:17 |
| santa | yofel: as a warning they still too 'cheap' if you know what I mean, and they aren't exactly easy to use if you didn't write them | 17:19 |
| yofel | there's some interesting parts I see though. (e.g. our scripts currently don't use python-debian at all, and really could use it in some places) | 17:21 |
| santa | to bump the build depends for instance | 17:22 |
| yofel | and honestly, some parts of our scripts aren't exactly... great... either | 17:22 |
| santa | yeah, I know | 17:22 |
| Odur | Riddell: I don't have a screen compatible with one of my laptops, so I can't do the test scenario | 17:23 |
| santa | I did a quick inspection of our scripts and there is stuff interesting to steal from each other | 18:02 |
| santa | yofel, Riddell: if we are going to share stuffof out automation scripts it would be nice to license them asap | 18:36 |
| santa | mines doesn't have a license yet | 18:37 |
| yofel | ours neither.. | 18:37 |
| santa | ok, think about a lincense and tell me, I will use the same | 18:37 |
| santa | as long as it's free :P | 18:37 |
| yofel | apachelogger, debfx, Riddell, shadeslayer: BSD3 or mit/x11 maybe? | 18:38 |
| santa | the first thing I would like to get into the kubuntu scripting is my stuff to bump the build depends because I think it works a bit better than yours | 18:39 |
| apachelogger | yofel: spaceships | 18:40 |
| apachelogger | what | 18:40 |
| apachelogger | yofel: gpl | 18:40 |
| === Don is now known as Guest96585 | ||
| yofel | apachelogger: why? | 18:42 |
| apachelogger | yofel: why not | 18:42 |
| yofel | true | 18:42 |
| apachelogger | if someone improves on our stuffsies and actually ends up distributing it (which is weird in itself) I rather expect the improvements to be available for us to find and possibly pick up | 18:42 |
| yofel | what though? gpl2+? | 18:42 |
| apachelogger | gpl kde | 18:42 |
| yofel | ah right, well wfm | 18:42 |
| santa | yofel, Riddell: I'm leaving soon, what if I provide you a function in a *.py file to bump all the frameworks and plasma dependencies which works better than yours? | 18:48 |
| santa | I could work on that @ home without internet and bring you something tomorrow | 18:48 |
| debfx | yofel: GPL is fine with me | 19:15 |
| shadeslayer | yofel: I'm fine with MIT/X11 | 19:38 |
| yofel | shadeslayer: I think we'll go with gplkde | 19:38 |
| shadeslayer | ok | 19:40 |
| shadeslayer | I'm so full of swiss cheese | 19:55 |
| shadeslayer | and wine | 19:55 |
| shadeslayer | so much wine | 19:55 |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: I'm running low on wine | 19:56 |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: halp | 19:56 |
| apachelogger | shadeslayer: downstairs? | 20:02 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: y u post so long | 20:06 |
| valorie | I liked it! | 20:08 |
| valorie | but your blog never allows me to respond | 20:08 |
| === rdieter_ is now known as rdieter_work | ||
| genii | Incidentally broken link to what seems to be a picture in https://blogs.kde.org/2014/07/28/kubuntu-plasma-5-isos-rolling | 20:11 |
| * genii goes back to making coffee | 20:11 | |
| apachelogger | shadeslayer: what's with the wine? | 20:14 |
| shadeslayer | its gone | 20:14 |
| shadeslayer | all of it | 20:14 |
| shadeslayer | nooooooo | 20:14 |
| apachelogger | shadeslayer: mais non, il y a une autre bouteille | 20:19 |
| shadeslayer | :O | 20:21 |
| shadeslayer | chocolate solves all the problems | 20:23 |
| shadeslayer | we should get some chocolate | 20:23 |
| apachelogger | all hail the chocolate god | 20:24 |
| apachelogger | why you see it is choco-late because it is always late | 20:24 |
| valorie | oh dear, chocolate and puns | 20:25 |
| valorie | regretable | 20:25 |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: the chocolate god is sitting next to me | 20:25 |
| shadeslayer | all hail mario | 20:25 |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: dude | 20:31 |
| shadeslayer | apachelogger: did you switch Qt from stable to 5.3 | 20:31 |
| apachelogger | shadeslayer: all hail mario, tell him to mind the beer if he is still there | 20:35 |
| apachelogger | shadeslayer: also where what when | 20:35 |
| shadeslayer | here okular now | 20:35 |
| apachelogger | that's the wrong god | 20:36 |
| apachelogger | find the right one | 20:36 |
| shadeslayer | the one true god | 20:36 |
| shadeslayer | wine | 20:36 |
| shadeslayer | or well | 20:36 |
| shadeslayer | alcohol of any sorts | 20:36 |
| shadeslayer | wine makes me sleepy | 20:37 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: por que muchos cosas hablar! | 20:48 |
| soee | hmm i wonder why so many distros build their own appcenter | 22:40 |
| soee | now i read this http://lmelinux.net/2014/08/13/interview-daniel-fore-founder-elementary-os/ | 22:40 |
| soee | and eos also will have its own | 22:40 |
| soee | why there cant be one cool appcenter :> | 22:41 |
| apachelogger | because programming is hard, distro developers rather go shopping intead | 22:43 |
| apachelogger | also they need to convince themselves that they are different from other distributions, so there's that | 22:43 |
| ScottK | Riddell: multiarch let's you run 32 bit stuff on 64 bit. | 23:10 |
| * ScottK runs and amd64 kernel with a 32 bit user space. | 23:10 | |
| ScottK | It made it possible for ia32libs to go away. | 23:11 |
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