[06:55] <Unit193> ochosi: FF the 21st, I've got a terrible memory and I don't see it on trello or blueprints, xfce4-soundmenu-plugin/libmpris2 and xfdash going into 14.10 official?
[06:56] <ochosi> Unit193: nah, xfdash can remain in extras for now, same with xfce4-soundmenu
[06:56] <ochosi> i think the latter still needs a bit of work
[06:56] <ochosi> then we can talk about including it by default
[06:57] <ochosi> (as long as we don't include it by default i think the PPA is an ok place)
[06:57] <ochosi> btw, google forms is a good idea for managing wallpaper submissions: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/16R0-IF8m8h5iUad067lf2SNi_v3qkluLe_fcR5f6jsY/viewform
[06:57] <ochosi> knome: that takes away most of the maintenance load of the wiki ^
[06:58] <Unit193> ochosi: I see, thanks.
[16:27] <elfy> mmm bluesabre re parole - so that odd situation I had where jogging forward in a audio file has changed - jogging forward now changes to the next track
[16:49] <elfy> tried to record what's going on with it - got a bug with record my desktop :p
[17:31]  * pleia2 aims for 1 hr meeting
[17:31] <pleia2> cuz lunch plans!
[17:31] <Unit193> Food is very important.
[17:31] <pleia2> or, you know, less :)
[17:31] <pleia2> anyway, meeting in a half hour
[17:31]  * pleia2 back2work until then
[17:40] <elfy> bluesabre: bug 1356979 attached screencast to it - eventually
[17:59] <pleia2> o/
[17:59] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[17:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 14 17:59:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:59] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:59] <pleia2> ok, who do we have here?
[17:59] <skellat> o/
[18:00] <elfy> hi
[18:00] <pleia2> #topic Open action items
[18:01] <pleia2> "marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media" that didn't get done :) will re-action
[18:01] <pleia2> #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
[18:01] <meetingology> ACTION: marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
[18:01] <pleia2> doesn't look like bluesabre, knome or ochosi are around to update on their items
[18:03] <pleia2> #chair elfy Unit193 
[18:03] <meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 elfy pleia2
[18:03] <pleia2> so do we just reaction all their stuff?
[18:03] <elfy> I guess so pleia2 
[18:03] <skellat> No
[18:03] <Unit193> That's how it used to go, yeah.
[18:04] <pleia2> clear as mud
[18:04] <pleia2> will reaction so we can follow up at next meeting
[18:04] <elfy> well I can see no reason why not
[18:04] <pleia2> #action bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki
[18:04] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki
[18:04] <pleia2> #action bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings
[18:04] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings
[18:04] <pleia2> #action bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings
[18:04] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings
[18:05] <pleia2> #action knome to check docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu
[18:05] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to check docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu
[18:05] <pleia2> that's good, ochosi's item was mailing the list about xchat and that was done :)
[18:05] <pleia2> #topic Team updates
[18:05] <pleia2> ok, what are we up to? :)
[18:06] <Unit193> bluesabre enabled clutter in parole, but it's not been set the default yet.
[18:06] <pleia2> I don't really have any updates from web or marketing, so no #info from me
[18:06] <elfy> #info QA is moribund still
[18:06] <skellat> #info skellat has been engaged in backport requests and sync requests
[18:07] <elfy> # Beta 1 in 2 weeks time - will call for testing, depending on response will reflect on whether to bother with Final Beta
[18:07] <pleia2> anything else?
[18:08] <elfy> not from me
[18:08] <Unit193> #info bluesabre enabled clutter in parole, but it's not been set xubuntu-default-settings yet.
[18:08] <pleia2> #info Beta 1 in 2 weeks time - will call for testing, depending on response will reflect on whether to bother with Final Beta
[18:08] <pleia2> thanks elfy 
[18:08] <skellat> Do we want any items to come up for Global Jam to be worked on/played with?  I had seen there was a meeting CCT held earlier today but I didn't catch all they went into.
[18:08] <elfy> oops sorry pleia2 :)
[18:09] <pleia2> docs and testing are really the only things we can do for Jam stuff
[18:09] <pleia2> but I'm not participating in UGJ this time around (will be traveling)
[18:10] <skellat> Can anybody identify specifics on our end and relate them to apparently mhall119 and/or dholbach?
[18:11] <skellat> That is to say, low-hanging fruit sorts of opportunities that would help us move forward
[18:11] <elfy> apparently not 
[18:11] <pleia2> skellat: maybe mail the list to see if anyone is interested in that?
[18:12] <skellat> I'll take an action item for that
[18:12] <pleia2> #action skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam
[18:12] <meetingology> ACTION: skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam
[18:12] <pleia2> thanks skellat 
[18:12] <pleia2> #topic Announcements
[18:13] <pleia2> anything?
[18:13] <elfy> nope
[18:13] <skellat> I've got nothing
[18:13] <Unit193> Feature freeze?
[18:14] <Unit193> Did we announce the calendar page with the trello and Xubuntu calendars?
[18:14] <elfy> I saw it somewhere Unit193 
[18:14] <GridCube> i think that was announced in the mailing list a few weeks ago
[18:14] <pleia2> debian import freeze has happened, feature freeze comes up on the 21st
[18:14] <Unit193> OK, terrible memory and all. :(
[18:15] <pleia2> :)
[18:15] <Unit193> #info Debian import freeze is in effect
[18:15] <Unit193> #info Feature freeze is coming up on the 21st.
[18:16] <pleia2> #topic Discussion
[18:16] <pleia2> #subtopic Gksu/do
[18:16] <pleia2> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-July/010287.html
[18:16] <mhall119> skellat: we need to update the UGJ wikipages first, then we'll have a place for you to put specific activities that would contribute to Xubuntu
[18:16]  * mhall119 apologies for coming in late
[18:16] <GridCube> Unit193, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-July/010321.html
[18:17] <pleia2> any gksu/do things?
[18:17] <elfy> pleia2: is that one not kind of dependent on knome's doc stuff?
[18:17] <Unit193> GridCube: Yep, thanks.  It's the memory again. :(
[18:17] <pleia2> elfy: perhaps!
[18:17] <GridCube> :)
[18:17] <skellat> mhall119: We still need to do harvesting on the Xubuntu side first.  You've got time.
[18:18] <elfy> I'd +1 returning to gksu tbh - not part of the discussion re removing it in the first place, but I really don't see why we should be the only falvour without gksu 
[18:18] <elfy> hi mhall119 :)
[18:18]  * pleia2 nods
[18:18] <skellat> elfy: The discussion in last meeting was that it was a tremendous hack and that we need to move towards getting pkexec-related compatabilities set up.
[18:19] <Unit193> pkexec is "nice" for things that support it and more secure, but really not so useful everywhere else.  I'd be in favor of using pkexec where we can, but gksu everywhere else and seeding it.
[18:19] <GridCube> who would do that
[18:19] <elfy> skellat: maybe so - but still there are huge bunches of people wandering around doing things for ubuntu
[18:19] <elfy> and pkexec smacks of the attitude with ibus - fine for us, sorry about you
[18:20] <elfy> Unit193: +1
[18:20] <pleia2> Unit193: +1
[18:20] <pleia2> did we end up with volunteers to pkexec things?
[18:20] <skellat> elfy: micahg wanted to drop it as catfish was one of the last things that needed it as a dependency which it doesn't anymore.  ochosi was advised by mainline security that gksu has security issues.
[18:21] <pleia2> boo security
[18:21] <elfy> pleia2: I had already got 3 here - put them on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec
[18:21] <elfy> skellat: even so - where does that put everyone else - and I repeat - it is US and Studio that don't seed gksu
[18:22] <elfy> and I don't see the sky falling in on anyone else
[18:22] <pleia2> elfy: oh good
[18:23] <skellat> elfy: That will require further study to see where it puts us in the overall realm of who is using gksu & who isn't
[18:23] <elfy> skellat: Ubuntu, Studio and Xubuntu don't have gksu
[18:23] <elfy> knee jerk reaction to it whenever it was 
[18:24] <skellat> I was thinking outside the Ubuntu realm
[18:24] <elfy> I've no interest in that
[18:24] <Unit193> #rank name                            inst  vote   old recent no-files (maintainer)
[18:24] <Unit193> 378   gksu                           2554519 23075 2528873  1693   878 (Gustavo Noronha Silva)     
[18:25] <skellat> The lurking issue of systemd has to be remembered which can and does inform what we do across the Ubuntu flavors even when we're not the ones directly deciding
[18:25] <elfy> that'll be lurking for sometime I would think
[18:26] <Unit193> Yep.
[18:26] <pleia2> yeah
[18:26] <Unit193> Also, not sure what systemd has to do with gksu directly.
[18:27] <elfy> so - I'd say postpone this till next meeting
[18:27] <pleia2> elfy: wfm
[18:27] <pleia2> #subtopic Discuss possible support of Xfce's bug bounty programme
[18:27] <pleia2> I think this was also agreed, yay
[18:28] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to work on drafting bounty/donation page for Xfce's bug bounty programme on xubuntu.org
[18:28] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to work on drafting bounty/donation page for Xfce's bug bounty programme on xubuntu.org
[18:28] <pleia2> #subtopic Make the Trello board publicly readable
[18:29] <pleia2> elfy: know anything about this one?
[18:29] <elfy> I've no issue with that - easily done, regardless of readability - only people ON the board can post afaik
[18:29] <pleia2> seems logical
[18:29] <pleia2> anyone have objections?
[18:29] <elfy> not me 
[18:30] <elfy> I'd vote perhaps - then move it to m/l - give it a week
[18:30] <skellat> Go for it especially after the static bluesabre got from DMB
[18:30] <pleia2> #subtopic Check whether the Blueprints and Trello board are in sync
[18:30] <pleia2> this one just sounds like just an action item someone should take
[18:30] <elfy> I can do that pleia2 
[18:30] <pleia2> #action elfy to check whether the Blueprints and Trello board are in sync
[18:30] <meetingology> ACTION: elfy to check whether the Blueprints and Trello board are in sync
[18:31] <pleia2> elfy: thank you
[18:31] <elfy> but what about the readability thing :)
[18:31] <elfy> yay or nay or move to m/l
[18:31] <pleia2> elfy: yay
[18:31] <pleia2> yea?
[18:31] <pleia2> do eet
[18:31] <elfy> :)
[18:31] <elfy> done
[18:31] <pleia2> #done elfy made Trello board publicly readable
[18:31] <elfy> get confirmation from someone lurking like krytarik 
[18:32] <elfy> https://trello.com/b/P9r6ICd0/xubuntu-team
[18:32] <pleia2> krytarik: can you see the board?
[18:32] <Unit193> Works.
[18:32] <knome> i'm here!
[18:32] <skellat> Heck, I can even see it when I'm not logged into trello so it is world readable
[18:32] <Unit193> knome: Welcome.
[18:32] <elfy> hi knome 
[18:32] <pleia2> cool
[18:32] <pleia2> #subtopic Other Business (and knome things)
[18:32] <pleia2> :D
[18:32] <pleia2> ok, anything else?
[18:33] <knome> gee, thanks :P
[18:33] <pleia2> heheh
[18:33] <Unit193> Perhaps document better how Xubuntu runs the meetings?
[18:33] <pleia2> am I doing that badly? :)
[18:33] <elfy> pleia2: no but I suspect Unit193 know's he's up soon :p
[18:34] <Unit193> < pleia2> clear as mud  that kind of gave a hint.
[18:34] <pleia2> oh yeah
[18:34] <pleia2> I can draft up instructions and ask people to fix them
[18:34] <GridCube> this is the first meeting im able to attend in about a year probably :(
[18:34] <knome> pleia2, be in touch with me on that.
[18:34]  * skellat references the Debian-side bugs list for gksu for the purpose of consideration for discussion: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=gksu
[18:35] <pleia2> knome: will do
[18:35] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft up meeting chair instructions and seek feedback
[18:35] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to draft up meeting chair instructions and seek feedback
[18:35] <pleia2> skellat: thanks for the link
[18:35] <pleia2> #info Debian-side bugs list for gksu for the purpose of consideration for discussion: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=gksu
[18:36] <pleia2> GridCube: in that case, have anything you wish to discuss? :)
[18:37] <GridCube> as a side effect of not being able to properly know how i can contribute for not joining conversations, no, though i liked the fact that some of the questions where forwarded to the mailing list where i could add my two cents
[18:37] <elfy> GridCube: I'd agree that's been a good thing
[18:37] <knome> we could start sending a mail that notifies about the meeting minutes being up
[18:38] <Unit193> Or, send the meeting minutes like several other teams do.
[18:38] <pleia2> maybe we add that to chair tasks
[18:38] <knome> so the meeting results would get more exposure to public, and probably open some discussion
[18:38] <GridCube> talking about that questions, the droping of xchat, i understand that we already droped it, but i would like that then we add a link on whishkers menu called "online help" that sends people to the web client for our channel on the main page
[18:39] <knome> not all of the issues are something we want/need to discuss on the mailing list
[18:39] <GridCube> knome, no, i understand
[18:39] <Unit193> Right, and I'd prefer not.
[18:39] <knome> Unit193, prefer not what?
[18:39] <Unit193> Every discussion happing on the ML, seems overkill.
[18:40] <knome> yeah.
[18:40] <knome> GridCube, what we are doing is making an experiment on how people react on xchat being removed
[18:40] <elfy> then that goes against what we decided - if it's a meeting discussion it should go to m/l for those not able to be here
[18:40] <knome> GridCube, if we decide it's the right way, we can then discuss if we want a menu item
[18:41] <knome> elfy, i was referring to mostly "for information" items :)
[18:41] <elfy> ok
[18:41] <GridCube> knome, i see. i don't agree but i understand.
[18:41] <knome> besides, i'm probably thinking a bit differently than you;
[18:41] <pleia2> well, I think meeting minutes being sent to the list should be more of a FYI thing, we still want threads started for important discussions
[18:41] <knome> not ALL of the things we discuss in the meeting *must* be a meeting/team discussion
[18:42] <pleia2> and I think just a link in an email, like: we had a meeting, read about it here:
[18:42] <elfy> pleia2: wfm
[18:42] <GridCube> sure, im not asking to move the meetings to the mailing list
[18:42] <knome> it's just that the meeting is a good forum to discuss things and get it archived somewhat reasonably to logs that are much more accessible than irclogs.ubuntu.com ;)
[18:42] <GridCube> i just liked that some question where forwarded there where i could participate
[18:42] <Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-August/038428.html - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-August/038422.html
[18:42] <pleia2> GridCube: nods
[18:43] <pleia2> we should keep doing that, it's good, we usually get feedback
[18:43] <knome> GridCube, definitely. that's more related to voting than meetings itself.
[18:44] <GridCube> mmhm
[18:44] <knome> extending the voting to the mailing list we can guarantee to either 1) get a quorum or 2) give enough time for everybody to be able to vote
[18:45] <knome> (even if technical quorum isn't met)
[18:45] <pleia2> yeah
[18:45] <knome> that being said...
[18:46] <knome> the strategy document doesn't talk about "expiring" from -team in vain
[18:46] <knome> i'm not saying there's anybody specific who shouldn't be part of the team, but please keep it in mind and judge with your own conscience whether you think you are warranted the membership
[18:47] <knome> (and thus, a vote in every vote, and making the quorum harder to reach in numbers)
[18:47] <knome> we don't want to kick anybody out, but it's the best for all to have an up-to-date membership list :)
[18:47] <elfy> indeed - totally agree with that
[18:48] <knome> and that said...
[18:48] <knome> we're happy to have old contributors back
[18:48] <knome> and they'll probably gain their membership faster since we already know them..
[18:51] <pleia2> knome: maybe an agenda item for next meeting?
[18:51] <GridCube> knome, i understand
[18:51] <knome> pleia2, of what? :)
[18:51] <pleia2> expiring team
[18:51] <knome> well, sure, though it should be an ongoing item ;)
[18:51] <pleia2> ah ok
[18:52] <knome> so maybe not
[18:53] <pleia2> ok, anything else?
[18:53] <elfy> I'm good pleia2 
[18:53] <GridCube> not from me
[18:53] <knome> nope
[18:53] <skellat> Adjournment sounds great
[18:53] <pleia2> #topic Schedule next meeting
[18:53] <elfy> ochosi
[18:54] <pleia2> I'm on there twice, so I forgets :)
[18:54] <pleia2> is it ochosi up next?
[18:54]  * knome checks
[18:54] <elfy> yea - twice in a row :)
[18:55] <knome> yeah, i believe so ;)
[18:55] <pleia2> #action ochosi to schedule next meeting
[18:55] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to schedule next meeting
[18:55] <elfy> then it's the Debian Liason's turn ... 
[18:55] <pleia2> I'll do meeting minute stuff after lunch
[18:55] <pleia2> thanks all
[18:55] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[18:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 14 18:55:47 2014 UTC.  
[18:55] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-08-14-17.59.moin.txt
[18:55]  * pleia2 out2lunch
[18:55] <elfy> thanks pleia2 :)
[18:55] <Unit193> We made it out!
[18:55] <Unit193> Thanks.
[18:55] <knome> pleia2, bon appetit!
[19:06] <Unit193> knome: Might want to get with cyphermox and see if NM .10 is landing for utopic as it'll need Xubuntu docs update if so.
[19:07] <knome> aha?
[19:14] <Unit193> The networking section has `nm-tool`, which is gone in .10.
[19:15] <knome> right
[19:15] <knome> can you make a trello card out of that?
[19:18] <Unit193> Uhhh....
[19:20] <knome> thanks for volunteering ;)
[19:20] <Unit193> What type of card?
[19:21] <knome> 14.04 TODO for slickymaster and knome
[19:33] <cyphermox> Unit193: it will, hopefully
[19:34] <Unit193> cyphermox: Thanks for the update, and the work on it (looking forward to nmtui!)
[19:34] <cyphermox> Unit193: still need to file the MIR report for libndp to go with it
[19:34] <Unit193> Oh bleh, MIRs.
[19:34] <cyphermox> Unit193: I can point you to the PPA maybe if you want to take a head start, all testing prior to upload is obviously welcome
[19:36] <Unit193> cyphermox: That might be tempting.
[19:36] <knome> elfy, ^
[19:37] <Unit193> xubutrello: card 85 link
[19:37] <xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/lgQiG8tA/85-update-the-docs-networking-section-for-the-new-networkmanager
[19:37] <knome> Unit193, cheers
[19:37] <Unit193> Yeeeep.
[19:37] <elfy> knome: ?
[19:37] <knome> elfy, keyword: testing
[19:38] <Unit193> Now is it tempting enough to make me quit playing with connman/cmst. :D
[19:39] <elfy> knome: if I had keyword testing - 99% of the time it would be me saying that no-one bothers testing 
[19:39] <elfy> not that I'm at all cynical 
[19:39] <knome> elfy, heh. well, it's probably something that we are going to be affected by whether we tested it or not.. so might be better to at least call for testing at some point ;)
[19:40] <elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker to see why I'm rather cynical
[19:40] <knome> i acknowledge the situation..
[19:40] <elfy> I call for testing - more or less no-one bothers
[19:41] <knome> if only i had about 24 more hours in a day ;)
[19:41] <elfy> :)
[19:50] <Unit193> elfy: ...Do I need to add it?  I am at least running utopic, so while not "testing", I've got it and it's active.  Not sure how much it counts though, since it is me.. :/
[19:52] <elfy> Unit193: yea - add it please :)
[19:52] <Unit193> Okay. :(
[19:52] <elfy> I appear to have a bluetooth indicator 
[19:52] <knome> *you*?
[19:52] <knome> is it behind your ear?
[19:54] <elfy> if only it was - I'd not see it then :)