/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/08/18/#xubuntu-devel.txt

bluesabreochosi: just the one00:37
bluesabreochosi: latest daily packages, brightness icon is white again01:45
ochosibluesabre: yeah, it's possible that i haven't pushed the brightness icon yet, don't remember right now07:51
slickymasterWorkmorning everyone :)10:06
ochosimorning10:09
slickymasterWorkhey ochosi. I'm back :)10:09
slickymasterWorkeverything that's good it's bound to have an end :(10:10
slickymasterWorkso did my holidays 10:10
ochosisorry to hear10:10
ochosihope you enjoyed yourself10:10
slickymasterWorkfrom the look of my email I see that I have a lot to catch on10:10
slickymasterWorkyes I did. Three weeks of nothing but surfing and biking 10:11
ochosislickymasterWork: sounds awesome10:48
slickymasterWorkochosi: I've just finished 2014-07-29 meeting log and starting the 2014-08-14 one10:49
slickymasterWorkdo you know if knome has started on pkexec yet?10:49
ochosinot sure, haven't talked to him about it yet10:50
slickymasterWorkok, I'll ping him about it10:50
slickymasterWorkI see there's also the new NetworkManager item to be worked on10:51
bluesabreslickymasterWork, wb10:54
bluesabreochosi: thing is, the icon was correctly colored, at least for a day10:55
ochosibluesabre: hm, fun :)10:55
ochosilemme check10:55
bluesabreochosi: also, trying to add properties to the indicators with the greeter, e.g. ~separator:expand:nohide10:56
bluesabreer10:56
bluesabre:nodraw10:56
bluesabreand :center10:56
bluesabre~spacer has the same issue as the xfce panel, can't really center anything10:56
slickymasterWorkhey bluesabre, thanks. It's good to be back10:57
ochosimm, i see10:57
ochosibluesabre: tbh i'm not sure why it's not working10:58
bluesabreif I can't accomplish that, we'll just make the login panel look like the desktop panel (which, maybe we should do anyway)10:58
ochosias far as i can see, the icon is there in the correct size in the icontheme10:59
ochosicould you check whether anything changes if you switch to -dark or elementary-xfce?10:59
ochosi(i'm on a desktop here atm, so can't test anything)10:59
bluesabreelementary-xfce is correct10:59
ochosii could actually drop the icon for the brightness plugin from the icon theme, that'd make things a lot easier...11:01
ochosiso how about -dark? (i presume you were using -darker)11:02
bluesabre-dark is white11:02
bluesabre-darker is white11:02
ochosiargh11:03
ochosijust found the issue i think11:03
bluesabremaybe just drop the white ones from 16/22/24 ?11:03
bluesabreer11:03
bluesabrekeep them for those sizes11:03
bluesabrestill early11:03
ochosiyeah, i could, that'd mean not supporting the brightness plugin anymore11:04
ochosiok, could you quickly edit elementary-xfce-dark/index.theme11:04
ochosichange "MinSize=24" (or whatever it is) to MinSize=3311:05
ochosiand then sudo gtk-update-icon-cache11:05
ochosithese panel icons are really tricky11:05
bluesabreno good11:08
ochosii guess you're using -dark now, right?11:08
ochosicause it could be that the icon-cache doesn't work if you update -dark but use -darker11:08
ochosiyou can also set the minsize to 4811:08
ochosior drop Min and MaxSize11:09
bluesabreupdated -dark, switched to -dark11:10
bluesabretrying 4811:10
ochosihm, that's really the only reasonable explanation i can think of right now11:11
bluesabre48 failed, dropping min and max failed11:12
bluesabreI'll let you work it out ;)11:12
ochosiargh11:12
ochosidoes the brightness icon have a shadow below it or not?11:13
ochosii mean the white version11:13
bluesabreyes11:13
ochosiok, then it11:13
bluesabreotherwise I'd think there was no icon11:13
ochosi's the 22px version11:13
ochosiso the min/maxsize approach couldn't have helped anyway11:13
ochosibtw, what are the chances of getting xfpm's 1.4 release into utopic?11:16
ochosi(there won't be too many new features, mostly bugfix i think)11:16
bluesabreochosi: depends when it lands11:17
bluesabrebut we should be able to if its reasonable soonish11:18
ochosiok11:26
ochosiwell we're targetting debian i think11:26
ochosiso might need a FFe for that11:28
ochosiand i guess it'll help that we already have 1.3.111:29
bluesabreyeah11:50
ochosiwe're waiting for translators and new bugreports atm11:58
bluesabrecool12:00
bluesabreHeading to work, bbl12:01
ochosiand trying to fix a few remaining issues12:01
ochosihf12:01
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
elfyand roundabout now in #xubuntu is exactly why ditching gksu for a non-working pkexec is a big fail 14:21
ochosiyeah well, users who don't know what they're doing at all are not really a super-cool argument for shipping gksu...14:22
elfyso I give up caring about the end user?  - who IS likely to have no idea at all, because some people in *buntu decided it's not a good idea and then nothing replaces it14:24
ochosithat's really not what my argument was about...14:25
elfyI'd love to see the logs of the discussion from when it was decide to remove it, and how that took into consideration the user14:25
ochosiok, overstating it a bit so that it's clear: i think a user who doesn't know how to install gksu should probably not use it14:26
elfybecause frankly I can't see how it's better for the end user to go from something that worked to nothing at all14:26
slickymasterWorkochosi: thing is that your argument is also valid for pkexec14:27
elfyand beforehand they didn't need to do that did they, they could just be told to use gksudo thunar to do a taks14:27
ochosislickymasterWork: thing is, pkexec doesn't just execute any random command with superuser rights, but specific apps that potentially need superuser rights14:28
elfynot for us in 14.04 it doesn't ochosi 14:28
ochosiwe can ship a profile for thunar and pkexec in 14.04.214:28
elfyand now we've got someone telling someone to use sudo thunar instead of sudo -H or something14:29
ochosino need to be so upset (or if you are, let's channel that into more constructive ways)14:29
elfyI'm not upset - it just annoys me that the discussion that was had didn't deal with this then I guess14:30
ochosii think at least within xubuntu we didn't have much of a discussion, or if we did, i don't remember14:30
ochosiand anyways, complain to knome about it. 14.04 is his responsibility ;)14:30
elfylol14:30
elfywas before my time I think - I certainly don't remember anything14:33
ochosieither way, we can either whine about it or try to get a pkexec profile for thunar and e.g. terminal included in 14.10 at least14:33
elfyor reuse gksu14:33
ochosii14:34
ochosii'd prefer to try to make pkexec work first14:34
ochosii personally don't see that profiles are needed for that many apps14:34
elfyI'd personally guessed at the 3 I did profiles for here14:35
elfythough the thunar one's now not working14:35
elfynor mousepad - both cannot open display14:36
ochosiwell after creating the profiles for the apps we need, step 2 is to bug bluesabre about including the profiles in the packages and upload then14:36
ochosis/then/them14:36
elfyyep - well it appears that the ones in the roadmap page are not longer working 14:40
* elfy starts the long winded task of checking out -core again ... 14:41
ochosihm, why are they not working anymore?14:41
elfyno idea ochosi - I get Cannot Open Display now :|14:41
elfyfor all 3 14:42
ochosiright, but why?14:43
elfyno idea ochosi - I didn't work out the syntax I just amended it to suit 14:44
brainwashochosi: found something interesting, please take a look at bug 132567515:00
ubottubug 1325675 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Indicator Plugin Area Refuses to Match Xfce Themes & Certain Icons are Cut Off" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132567515:00
brainwashnot sure about 2., but 1. may be caused by the gtk theme not supporting gtk3, right?15:01
ochosi2. is known15:02
ochosiubuntu changed their indicator api shortly before the release15:02
ochosibecause they wanted to support hidpi displays15:02
ochosiso the indicator icons (which used to be hardcoded to 22px) come in any size now15:02
ochosiand the plugin doesn't handle this anymore, because it still assumes that the icons are always 22px15:03
ochosiputting that icon in a folder that is defined as fixed size in index.theme in the icon-theme fixes the issue btw15:03
ochosi"fixes" = works around it15:03
brainwashmmh, yeah, you should tell the affected people about this workaround :)15:04
ochosiand yeah, issue 1 is probably what you suggested15:04
ochosifeel free to quote me ;)15:04
brainwashargh :D15:04
brainwashso it's a dupe of bug 131353115:05
ubottubug 1313531 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Huge Wallch icon in Xubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131353115:05
ochosiyup15:06
brainwashok15:06
ochosiand yeah, andrzejr gave the explanation there15:08
elfyochosi: so they used to work in the old install, but because I use gksu I didn't know they were missing from this one ... once they are there - they all work fine15:12
ochosielfy: err, so what, the files in the wiki work after all?15:14
elfyindeed they do15:15
ochosiok, then let's add an item to development for bluesabre to upload them15:15
elfywe going to sru this back to 14.04 at some point too?15:15
ochosiyeah, we can, but first step is to get it into 14.10 either wa15:15
ochosiy15:15
elfynot so sure we need to bother with terminal tbh - sudo -i or any number of other options for that15:16
ochosiright, so only thunar and..?15:17
elfymousepad is the only other one 15:17
ochosiright, makes sense15:18
ochosiso those two bluesabre should have access to15:18
ochosior even Noskcaj 15:18
elfythe files are all on the roadmap for it 15:18
elfyadded to trello and features blueprint15:19
ochosicool, thanks15:19
elfythose files might need tidying up - not sure, but they all work15:19
ochosicould you report a bug against mousepad and one against thunar adding those files?15:20
elfyokey doke 15:20
ochosiideally link them to the features blueprint15:20
ochosithen things should go ahead smoothly15:20
elfyyep 15:20
elfyochosi: launchpad only - or bugzilla?15:22
ochosifor now launchpad is fine, although mousepad is more active than thunar, so you could give that a try15:22
elfyochosi: ok - both done on LP, mpad on bugzilla and linked, both added to blueprint15:31
ochosisweet, thanks a lot elfy 15:31
elfys'ok :)15:34
lullisHi. I have a few questions regarding the AppIndicator on xubuntu. I am trying to write an indicator applet (using python), and documentation is sparse, to say the least. The few source samples I found, I was expecting to see an indicator showing up, but no dice. Will the best way to take a look into an existing indicator (I found indicator-weather who seems to be a single 3kLoC python program) and reverse engineer the API?15:51
rowboatn1ckisnt the indicator bar just a gtk widget?15:59
rowboatn1cklullis: statusicon?16:01
ochosilullis: yeah, i think the docs are scarce. i guess people who have written indicators have used other indicators as examples16:06
ochosialso, not that the api changes a lot16:06
ochosiif you wanna do something just for the xfce panel, a plugin would be better, and it's actually not that hard to do (and there's a sample plugin)16:07
brainwashbug 1293287 should be fixed in utopic, but what about trusty? could or should it be fixed via backports at some point?16:21
ubottubug 1293287 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xubuntu 14.04 'xfdesktop --reload' no longer cycles wallpaper image" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129328716:21
brainwashby backporting the new dev release 4.11.716:21
lullisochosi, it will have to be an indicator. Basically I have an application that deals with authentication through sd cards, and I need to put this indicator on both the desktop panel and on the login greeter.16:22
ochosilullis: i see. then i guess you have no choice but to look at existing examples. you might also want to ask around in #ubuntu-desktop16:23
lullisOk, thanks.16:24
elfyUnit193: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/core.html so Install gets you the tasksel, command-line doesn't - but currently BOTH still require the apt-get install command, - core is missing from selection17:28
elfyochosi bluesabre ^^17:28
elfyochosi: so what's the plan with this and utopic - or are we going to revisit it in valiant vampire ?17:31
ochosielfy: i'm waiting for Unit193's feedback on this. have no idea what it would take to fix that so it's hard to judge for me whether we can fix it in time for 14.1017:58
elfyok - well I'm just drafting testcase(s) 18:00
elfyUnit193: if you could have a look http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core thanks18:08
Unit193ochosi, elfy: Right, both require you to install xubuntu-core^ right now because tasksel hasn't been updated, I've pinged the person a couple times, but he's been on vacation I believe so that won't help much.18:33
ochosiUnit193: who's "the person"?18:34
elfyokey doke - thought it was something like that18:34
ochosiso i guess we can get that fixed after FF, right? (i mean tasksel being updated)18:34
Unit193ochosi: cjwatson.18:38
elfyahh18:38
knomeslickyma1ter, haven't, i've been busy with stuff, like laying around the summer cottage ;)20:50
brainwashshouldn't xubuntu-default-settings provide the pkexec policy files for thunar and co?21:18
=== halfie_ is now known as halfie
knomewouldn't it be better if they were shipped with the application packages itself? that way *anybody* using thunar could get that policy...21:20
knomei mean of course it's a fair fallback *for now* to ship them in the default settings package21:20
brainwashso it has be included upstream?21:21
brainwashhas to be21:21
brainwashbug 135836121:23
ubottubug 1358361 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar needs a pkexec policy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135836121:23
brainwashis targeting ubuntu21:23
knomewell, i'd imagine getting it included in upstream *xfce* would be the most ideal situation, but that's unlikely to happen/propagate for 14.10 at least21:24
knomei was referring to the thunar package in ubuntu21:25
brainwashright, kinda late21:25
knomelate and practically we'd have to get 1) policy added in the repository 2) release for all appropriate packages 3) aforementioned landed in debian and 4) synced to ubuntu21:26
brainwashbut still, xubuntu users will expect pkexec to work like gksu for every app, won't they?21:26
knomeso that might be a stretch even vrt. 15.04..21:26
knomeof course they will.21:26
brainwashoce it works for thunar, mosuepad and ...21:26
brainwashonce21:26
knomethat's why it's a fair fallbac *for now* to go the default settings route21:27
knomeand sure, they'll expect it to work in non-default apps too21:27
ochosithat's one of the reasons why i prefer pkexec over gksu, it doesn't *just work* for any app that might not even need it21:27
knomewhen it doesn't - well, then they'll have to file a bug and wait for the change to land to the package21:27
knomehey ochosi ;)21:27
ochosipeople who know what they're doing can be trusted to install gksu21:27
brainwashsudo xfdesktop4 :D21:27
knomeochosi, and when you say that, everybody becomes one who can be trusted ;)21:28
ochosiwell i don't care what users do to their systems willingly21:28
brainwashpeople just fall back to sudo21:28
ochosibut i prefer to ship sane defaults21:28
brainwashsudo works every time and breaks everything :)21:28
knomebrainwash, that's their pick, and they live with the consequences21:28
brainwashand spam the forums and chats with questions about their broken user accounts :/21:30
knomearen't they doing that with PPA's already?21:30
ochosiactually we asked via the mailinglist for users to submit apps they need to use with superuser rights21:30
ochosinot the huge turnout21:30
knomei mean, sure, it's stupid, but there are *already* a dozen ways to break your installation21:30
Unit193So we should add more, cool.21:31
knomehow are we adding more?21:32
knomei thought we were introducing something that was less prone to break stuff.21:33
brainwashjust noticed that the daily iso only ships firefox-locale-en21:36
brainwashdid something change?21:36
brainwashshould we be worried? :)21:37
ochosiwow, here's one for all the folks who complain about light-locker: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/135850421:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1358504 in unity (Ubuntu) "Screensaver leaks password key-presses through to applications" [Undecided,New]21:55
knomegreat..21:55
ochosiwell, nobody said writing a secure lockscreen from scratch was easy (which is why we didn't with light-locker) :p21:56

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