bluesabreUnit193: poke00:39
bluesabreCan you bump http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unit193/+junk/xfpm-pkging/view/head:/debian/changelog to 1.3.1?00:39
Unit193bluesabre: Sure thing!00:50
bluesabreUnit193: Thanks!00:50
Unit193Sorry I haven't done it sooner.00:56
bluesabreIt's cool01:04
bluesabreNoticed today when I reported bugs to ochosi and was running an old version :)01:05
Unit193Also, thanks for fixing the policy kit name in x-d-s. :P01:13
bluesabreyeah, I'll push that out either tonight or in the morning01:22
Unit193Glad they're in /usr/share/ though.01:24
Noskcaj-schoolUnit193: Can you have a look at xfpm's new lxde plugin support? You've done more stuff with lubuntu than me, so hopefully you'll be able to get it to work. I've not been abke to get it to build (thinks lxde-panel isn't there)02:32
Noskcaj-schoolAlso, is there anything that xubuntu needs work on ATM? I've got nothing till the upower shitstorm arrives02:33
Unit193Noskcaj-school: It won't "detect" lxpanel as there is no -dev package nor the required files in the main package.02:43
Unit193!find lxpanel.pc utopic02:46
Unit193!find lxpanel.h utopic02:46
ubottuPackage/file lxpanel.pc does not exist in utopic02:46
ubottuFile lxpanel.h found in lxpanel02:46
Unit193man5/lxpanel.hints.5.gz doesn't quite count.02:46
Unit193catfish 1.2.1-1 uploaded by Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com> (Closes: #758652) https://tracker.debian.org/catfish03:12
Unit193bluesabre: Might want to sync that, past DIF and nearly hitting FF.03:17
Unit193(And I'm sure the email from Debian FTP Masters indicated this same info. :D )03:18
bluesabreyup, I'll sync that in the morning ;)04:12
bluesabreand yeah, we'll want to enable the lxpanel plugin for the lubuntu folks04:12
bluesabreheading to bed now, bbl04:13
Unit193G'night, you being up late and all. :P04:14
Unit193https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel dang hot spots...06:08
ochosigood morning07:37
knomehey ochosi 07:37
ochosiUnit193: yeah, indeed. sucks a bit that andrzejr has become so busy himself lately (since most of those bugs could be addressed by him)07:40
ochosibut frankly, that's really a big problem, that the bugtrackers are all so unmanaged and overflowing07:41
ochositook me a really long time to get e.g. xfpm down to a reasonable amount07:41
Unit193The washer of brains does pretty good with them at times.07:41
ochosi(which wasn't surprising i guess, after two years of oblivion)07:41
ochosiUnit193: so wrt -core, we just wait until cjwatson returns, then we can do wider testing on it?08:06
Unit193For the tasksel update, which is what we'd really like, yeah.08:06
ochosii mean generally i don't see a huge problem in shipping that even if it's not very discoverable atm, it doesn't seem to break or inhibit anything else08:06
Unit193People should not be using `apt-get install xubuntu-core`, which is the obvious thing, though. :/08:07
ochosiwell we can blog about that though08:07
Unit193And even worse, updates are going to suck. :P08:07
ochosiaround the release08:07
Unit193Sure, OK.08:07
ochosiif you could draft some basic info on that, that'd be great08:07
ochosi(i'd start writing it from a pov where we assume tasksel has been updated)08:08
ochosielfy: tried to debug your problem with xfpm not setting the blank timeout last night, couldn't reproduce it08:14
ochosibut then again, i wasn't using xfpm1.3.1 but git master (although i think we didn't touch anything blank-related there)08:15
knomemhall119, i've just approved your message and added you to the auto-approve list of xubuntu-devel08:20
ochosielfy: fwiw, i can't reproduce that issue on neither trusty nor utopic. it always sets the blank time just fine08:23
ochosielfy: one thing you can do is pull the slider back and forth to see whether that updates the setting in X1108:24
ochosielfy: it's possible that you still have a desktop file setting the blank timeout left from light-locker-settings (the file ~/.config/autostart/screensaver-settings.desktop is obsolete with xfpm>=1.3.1)09:15
brainwashthe user needs to remove or uncheck it manually?09:26
brainwashshould be added to the release notes then09:26
ochosills has been updated meanwhile09:51
ochosithis is only an issue for ppl who have been running utopic for a while already09:51
ochosi(actually starting up lls once will remove that file from autostart too, so it's not a huge issue for upgraders either)09:51
ochosiyeah, bluesabre has done a really nice job on lls10:09
ochosiso yeah, if you wanna backport xfpm1.4 to trusty, lls should also be backported10:09
ochosiplus the icons10:10
bluesabremorning all10:10
ochosibluesabre: i'll try to translate the rest of the appdata files for catfish today (or now, depending on when you're going to release)10:10
ochosiand good morning to you too :)10:10
bluesabreno hurry10:10
bluesabrepushed the release out last night since it was dead for debian10:11
ochosithe UI is fully translated already though10:11
ochosioh, i see10:11
bluesabreand because FF is tomorrow10:11
ochosithe xfpm release would happen in about 6hrs or so10:12
ochosihope that's not too late10:12
bluesabreoh nice10:12
ochosiwell, and if it is, we can file a FFe10:12
bluesabreand this release includes..?10:13
ochosidropping of >100 icons in three sizes, small bugfixes, rename of the panel plugin10:14
ochosithe only feature is the dropping of the icons actually10:14
ochosiand more translations obviously10:15
ochosihm, reminds me i still have to draw a notification icon for our theme for keyboard-brightness10:16
bluesabreah, right10:16
ochosimight do that now, maybe you have time to quickly test it10:16
bluesabreso, another update for x-d-s too then for the plugin rename10:16
ochosior you can also do that tomorrow10:16
ochosibluesabre: anything i can help you with adhoc right now?10:28
bluesabrenot really, unless you want to go through and add translations to our various apps10:30
ochosijust forwarded the italian translations to some guys on g+10:31
ochosiright, well i can take a few mins for that, if you want10:31
slickymasterWorkhey, I thought I already had translated light-locker bluesabre ?!10:32
slickymasterWorkstill 3 strings missing :P10:32
bluesabrewe did a new release a few days ago10:33
bluesabreI'll have a mugshot update tonight, so ignore that one for now10:34
ochosihum, did a few strings for lls10:34
ochosi(in italian)10:34
slickymasterWorkok, I'll go and finish light-locker, for now10:34
bluesabrethanks guys10:35
bluesabrealso, good job here: https://translations.launchpad.net/gtk-theme-config10:35
bluesabrewill do translation releases for trusty too this weekend10:35
brainwashochosi: ok, no need to backport xfpm, but what about xfdesktop 4.11.7 from utopic? can it be easily sru'd (micro release) or backported?10:37
slickymasterWorkconsider those done, by the end of the day bluesabre ;)10:38
slickymasterWorkat leats in pt10:38
bluesabregreat, thanks!10:38
ochosibluesabre: ok, done with german, and improved things a bit in italian10:40
bluesabrebrainwash: unless there is some feature or user-facing change, then yeah, could be sru'd to trusty with micro release10:40
ochosi(despite all the annoying timeouts)10:41
bluesabreochosi: yeah, translations.launchpad is super bad for timeouts10:41
ochosibluesabre: not sure marking "128px" etc as translateable makes much sense...10:41
ochosi(in menulibre)10:41
bluesabreI'm sure it benefits some languages ;)10:42
ochosiokeydokey ;)10:42
slickymasterWorkhttps://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings -> done10:45
slickymasterWorkhttps://translations.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings -> done~10:51
brainwashelfy: want to register a blueprint page for xubuntu 14.04.2?11:02
ochosiUnit193: cjwatson is around11:24
ubottuHello! Welcome to #xubuntu-devel! Please note that this channel is for Xubuntu developer coordination. For support questions, please use #xubuntu. Offtopic chatter in #xubuntu-offtopic.11:26
elfyochosi: so that's an mmm then @10: 15 "elfy: it's possible that you still have a desktop file setting the blank timeout..." and then @ :51 "actually starting up lls once will remove that file from autostart to" not for me it didn't - I'd been into lls after I found it was still wrong, file still existed11:41
ochosielfy: right, i think bluesabre hasn't released/uploaded that version of lls yet12:05
ochosiso removing that file fixed it?12:06
elfyit would appear to have - screen is still up 40 minutes later :)12:15
elfyI'll see when I get back from work 12:23
ochosielfy: well, 40mins is actually a long enough period to be sure ;)12:29
ochosithanks for testing that agai12:29
elfyochosi: yea - couldn't remember exactly when I did something - it'll definitely be sure later12:30
ochosibluesabre: fwiw, improving the icons in xfwm4's tabwin won't be so easy, potentially means introducing a libwnck depend (which wouldn't be that bad though)12:34
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
elfyochosi: yea, all fine here without that .desktop file hassling me :)16:10
ochosiso nothing we have to worry about for 14.1016:11
elfyI'll try not to find anything else :p16:14
brainwashochosi: should the sound indicator open pavucontrol for the normal Xfce session? it only works for the xubuntu session as of now16:22
brainwashbug 135924916:22
ubottubug 1359249 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Launching PAVUControl works from Xubuntu, but not from Xfce" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135924916:22
ochosibrainwash: not sure, it's a single line that controls that though, so it should be easy to find out16:23
brainwashtrying to find the original bug report for xubuntu16:24
brainwashthe report which requested the change for the xubuntu session16:25
ochosiwhy is that needed?16:28
ochosibrainwash: added a comment16:31
brainwashochosi: ah, thanks :)16:32
* elfy assumes it's the same in unicorn16:33
ochosii just linked to the 14.04 code cause the bug is for 14.90416:34
Unit193bluesabre: Will you be around today?  Before midnight UTC?18:26
ali1234i just found the "make it look like" menu in gmusicbrowser... that's the best thing ever18:38
elfythe best thing ever would be "make it not work like gmusicbrowser" :p18:38
ElderDryasI still want it to look (and act) like Pandora :)18:39
ali1234i havent' attempted to actually listen to music with it yet18:40
ali1234i appear to have somehow made it "look like" a player with no buttons or menus, and now i can't fix it18:41
ochosiyou can easily close gmb and then edit the gmbrc file in ~/.config/gmusicbrowser18:42
ElderDryasor throw it away and start over18:42
ochosi"Layout: Shimmer Desktop"18:43
ali1234well it looks like rhythmbox, but it doesn't *work* like rhythmbox18:43
ali1234search is broken, track sorting is broken...18:43
ali1234why are we shipping this?18:43
elfyrhythmbox compact perhaps - there's not buttons there :)18:44
ali1234yeah that was the one that killed it for me18:44
elfybecause knome thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread I think18:44
ali1234in fact with that layout the actual layout seems to randomly change each time you restart it18:44
ochosiali1234: feel free to do an app-comparison an suggest alternatives18:45
ali1234rhythmbox is really the only sensible alternative18:45
ali1234banshee is okay but it needs mono, the users will burn us if we make that a dependency18:45
ochosiwhy would rhythmbox be the only sensible alternative? (other than you liking it)18:46
ali1234because it's the only good gtk music player18:46
ochosianyway, app comparisons work fine18:46
ali1234i literally can't think of any others18:46
ochosiexpand your horizon? :)18:46
ali1234exaile maybe? never tried it18:47
* elfy uses gmb twice a cycle 18:48
* ElderDryas has found that the $playofchoice usually boils down to the ONE thing that it does (better) that others don't.18:50
elfywe could always not seed it at all - like irc - we seed parole which suffices18:50
elfyElderDryas: yea - agreed18:50
SkippersBossevening all18:50
elfyhi SkippersBoss 18:50
SkippersBossLong time no see18:50
SkippersBosshave we landed in a music player war18:51
elfynot really :)18:51
ali1234i know music services are all in the cloud now but i think we still need a music library manager18:52
* SkippersBoss thinks the best player is the one I want to use every day. Sadly other have a different view18:52
elfymine aren't ali1234 18:52
SkippersBossthat' ok18:52
ali1234i don't listen to local music that much these days, it's all youtube, soundcloud, spotify and internet radio stations18:52
brainwashlet's just ship a browser, that's all you need :)18:52
* elfy uses clementine - and has for a long time 18:53
SkippersBossali1234,  and that defines what your music player must do18:53
ali1234i still have a local library though18:53
* SkippersBoss likes clementine but has moved on to guayadeque18:54
SkippersBossJust my preference. 18:54
elfytried that for a while18:54
SkippersBossChoice is what matters here18:54
ali1234i like the two-pane search interface style, i think it's the easiest to understand18:55
ali1234i don't like making playlists, that's too much work18:56
SkippersBossAnd you are entitled to your choice.. However others have different requirements.. There is no one program that does it all for every one. That's why there is choice.18:57
ali1234we have to pick something though18:58
SkippersBossI personally like tagging18:58
ali1234putting the most complicated kitchen sink app onto the default install is not a good idea18:58
SkippersBossBut I  have dropped in the middle of a ongong argument. Why are we dropping gmusicbrowser18:59
ali1234have you tried to use it?19:00
SkippersBossThe simple choice19:00
ali1234it's not simple at all19:00
ali1234it's trying to be configurable like all those amarok-inspired players, but it's really buggy19:00
SkippersBossI am not into skins19:00
elfyali1234: perhaps we should ship it with less layout options 19:01
elfySkippersBoss: these aren't skins so much as different layouts19:01
SkippersBossmy bad19:01
SkippersBossI favor the keep it simple approach19:02
Unit193elfy: "because knome thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread I think" and ochosi.19:02
knomeelfy, i agree it's fair to say you could compare dropping xchat to dropping gmb. that being said, i'm ok to drop gmb, but then i'm also not sure if we are actually dropping something too "essential"19:03
elfypossibly - never really discussed it with ochosi 19:03
elfyUnit193: ^^19:03
knome(i'm also ok with another media player choice, but as it stands, we've cycled through many as our defaults)19:04
elfyknome: I'm really not that bothered - I dislike gmb intensely as you know, but that's not a reason to drop it :)19:04
elfyI just don't use it 19:04
ali1234i normally just install rhythmbox19:04
ali1234never tried gmb before today19:04
knomei really think we should consider dropping abiword, gnumeric and gimp before 16.04..19:05
SkippersBossYou could just mention others in the faq19:05
Unit193elfy: Grid, you, me, etc.19:05
SkippersBossin favour of ??19:05
Unit193knome: I'd understand the first two, but would like to keep gimp.19:05
knomein favour of nothing.19:05
SkippersBossYou want to drop Gimp?19:05
knomei think gimp is the worst offender, it's really big and most of our users do not really need most of the features.19:05
ali1234i don't really see any need for gimp in the default install19:06
ali1234if you know what it is, you know how to install it19:06
ochosione of the reasons for adopting gmusicbrowser was that i was contributing to the project19:06
SkippersBossI take it Pleia isn't around ?19:06
knomeit's like installing a garage to store a tin of paint19:06
elfySkippersBoss: it only came back since we got too big for a cd iirc19:06
pleia2SkippersBoss: what's up?19:06
ochosioh wow, we should probably do a team meeting right now, since everybody's here :)19:06
SkippersBossI thought you would go nuts for dropping gimp19:07
elfyochosi: lol19:07
knomeali1234, exactly, same way as other advanced tools and app groups with usually hard preferences (irc client, office suite..)19:07
ElderDryaspleia2's here, give her her 3rd chance to run one :)19:07
pleia2SkippersBoss: it's sad, but users are used to it19:07
ali1234the big difference with gimp is there really isn't any alternatives19:07
ali1234but, it's a high level "professional" tool that most people don't even need at all19:08
pleia2since ubuntu doesn't have one19:08
knomeali1234, yep. we've looked for lighter alternatives, but there are none19:08
ali1234there aren't even heavier alternatives :)19:08
knomeexcept that gimp is not really professional enough to be used by professionals.19:08
SkippersBossGimp is euhm Gimp, in a class of it's own19:08
knomeali1234, cinepaint? :)19:08
geniiMaybe mtpaint?19:09
ali1234isn't cinepaint a gimp fork anyway?19:09
knomegenii, i'm sure we've looked at that, and there was something eww about it ;)19:09
knomeali1234, mate is a fork of gnome, but it's still a competitor/alternative...19:10
ali1234there's krita too, but none of these things do the same thing as gimp19:10
knomeright, last version released on 201119:10
knomekrita is kde/qt19:10
ali1234yes, of course19:10
ali1234even kde does not have a photo-manipulation tool19:10
knomeso it's out of question to begin with for xubuntu19:10
pleia2there's tux paint19:11
knomepleia2, i'm sure we looked at that too...19:11
knomeoh lol19:11
* knome facepalms19:11
Unit193I think the gist of it is...19:11
pleia2yeah, pretty sure we're bikeshedding now19:11
ElderDryasI vote for blue19:11
knomethe argument so far has been "there is no alternative for gimp, so let's keep it"19:12
ali1234i dont hink that's a good reason to keep it19:12
pleia2also, I <3 gimp19:12
Unit193ElderDryas: What's wrong with Green, or red?19:12
ali1234it's only a good reason to choose gimp if you want something that does what gimp does :)19:12
knomewhich is *kind of* fair... but otoh, it's like "there is no good alternative for libreoffice, so install it"19:12
ElderDryasUnit193: Blue fades so nicely19:12
knome(no, i'm not proposing to install libreoffice)19:13
elfysay that on the m/l :p19:13
* SkippersBoss uses gnumeric but will accept that others favour Libreoffice19:13
Unit193Two minutes later, on Webupd8, "Xubuntu to install Libreoffice by default, drops gnumeric and abiword."19:13
knomethe only situation when it's a problem to install gimp/something else after the installation is offline circumstances19:14
knomemaybe there should be some kind of ISO that acts like a repository with that extra stuff19:14
knomewe could maintain it in cooperation with, say, lubuntu and other friends.19:14
Unit193But the whole thing is slightly moot at this point, FF is today so playing with the seed isn't a great idea.19:15
knomeUnit193, for 15.04.19:15
knomei understand it's not a simple/quick task19:15
knomeand i'd like a bit more discussion from the team anyway19:16
ali1234a better example of "no good alternative" would be inkscape19:16
ali1234that's arguably just as useful as gimp19:16
knomeali1234, on a VERY personal level, i'd really wouldn't mind dropping gimp and replacing it with inkscape.19:16
knomeali1234, but i understand there's a lot wrong with that thought ;)19:17
ali1234i use both regularly, so that's swings and roundabouts to me19:17
Unit193Meh, it's more complicated and "not as useful" to "beginners".19:17
ochosiknome: not sure whether a cooperation on such a repo would work as soon as lxde is lxqt19:17
zequenceThe two aren't used for the same purpose though19:17
zequenceThey are not the same type of applications19:17
knomeochosi, hmm, right19:17
knomezequence, i said there's a lot wrong in that :P19:17
ali1234zequence: right, we're not saying one should replace the other19:17
knomei know they are different.19:17
knomei'm not REALLY proposing it.19:17
knomeand i'm not proposing to include inkscape anyway19:18
knomepeople who want to use it, can install it19:18
SkippersBossKnome: you want Xubuntu to become a barebone release with an extra ISO covering the apps ?19:18
ali1234the question is, why do we ship one but not the other, given that they're both similar in the type of user they are pitched for19:18
Unit193knome: If the Mate desktop becomes official, we'll still share GTK stuff with them and a little with Ubuntu Gnome, and of course always UbuntuStudio, but all for different purposes.19:18
ali1234even KDE people are going to want gimp19:19
knomeSkippersBoss, that's not exactly what i'm after, but we seriously do not need a tool for every imaginable task19:19
knomeali1234, and maybe libreoffice.19:19
SkippersBossI am with you on that19:19
knomeUnit193, sure19:19
knomethe ISO could be pretty much about gimp/libreoffice19:19
ali1234and inkscape :)19:19
knomei mean, i don't mind if we don't have that ISO19:20
knomei'd like to know how many people even install their machines in offline circumstances AND want gimp/LO19:20
knomemaybe more if we decide to drop abiword/gnumeric19:20
Unit193Or, slower internet too.19:20
ali1234we'll never know, because they are offline19:20
knomeUnit193, that too19:20
knomeali1234, well they got their ISO somehow19:21
elfybloke up the road19:21
elfyor something 19:21
knomewell then the bloke can report it ;)19:21
knomei mean sure, it's a hard thing to measure.19:21
elfythe bloke runs win98 and just did it for a favour :p19:21
knomethen too bad19:21
knomeslow/no internet, no "support guy" and new to linux sounds like a bad idea anyway19:22
knomei'm not sure if it's realistic to ultimately be helpful for that person anyway19:23
Unit193The support fella is elfy.19:23
knomebecause what are they doing with their computer anyway without internet?19:23
* elfy is bloke with win98 19:23
elfyknome: playing a bunch of music someone gave them on parole19:23
knomethat's becoming a very border case anyway19:24
knomewhenever we are talking about this, i'm thinking of like, africa.19:24
Unit193I still support border cases, but yeah doesn't have to be default.19:25
knomeconstant slow connetions, maybe the DVD is used by dozens of people19:25
ali1234do we actually know anything about what "africans" actually want, or are we just guessing based on stereotypes?19:25
knomeUnit193, i'd like to support them too, but yep, it's wonky.19:25
knomeali1234, of course we are guessing19:25
knomeexcept pleia2 was in africa..19:25
knomeali1234, though that is/is not the point19:26
Unit193I know someone on IRC from South Aferica, but he uses Kubuntu. :P19:26
knomeali1234, we don't know about those cases anyway, so there is less reason to keep gimp/office suite19:26
knomeali1234, just as much there is more reason to keep them...19:26
knomeUnit193, south africa != africa :P19:26
pleia2most people still use internet cafes to download big things, or cellphone dongles that don't support linux anyway (sigh)19:27
knomepleia2, question is: do they need abiword/gnumeric/LO or gimp? :P19:27
knomepleia2, if they do, is it a problem to get that in the internet cafe?19:27
pleia2in Ghana at least the school curriculum requires office knowledge (it doesn't specify Microsoft)19:27
pleia2and some training centers actually teach LO19:28
knomepleia2, do you think it'd be a problem for somebody in the school to grab an ISO with LO?19:28
knomepleia2, i mean, if that was available...19:28
knomeor do the students need to handle that themself19:28
pleia2and they don't use gimp19:29
knomeso an office suite on the main ISO maybe isn't as essential as we think19:29
pleia2well, not having an office suite is pretty meh19:29
SkippersBossComplete office suite no 19:29
knomepeople in belgium can get their office suite anyway.19:29
pleia2I'm ok with dropping gimp, but going without an office suite is painful19:29
knomehaving abiword that breaks every cycle is pretty meh...19:29
SkippersBossPeople in Belgium will have a fast internet connection19:29
Unit193pleia2: Including gnumeric/abiword?19:30
pleia2at least abiword/gnumeric get you limping with office support out of the box19:30
pleia2but honestly I'd prefer LO19:30
Unit193That it does.19:30
Unit193And, SkippersBoss uses it at least, so that's someone.19:30
knomepleia2, yeah, but installing that... meh.19:30
pleia2and we've had this discussion with users about a billion times19:30
pleia2LO is better, isn't as bad as it used to be (much faster)19:31
pleia2s/bad/slow, monster19:31
knomeUnit193, craft an ISO for me... :P19:31
knomeUnit193, drop gimp, abiword and gnumeric. add libreoffice writer.19:31
SkippersBossXubuntu to favour Gnumeric because /me uses it lol Not a good enough reason19:31
SkippersBossI can live with that19:31
Unit193knome: libreoffice-writer, libreoffice-gtk, libreoffice-calc?19:31
knomeUnit193, while you're at it, remove gmb19:32
SkippersBossWhy calc19:32
ali1234i think we need a spreadsheet as a minimum19:32
knomeUnit193, yeah, i guess you can add -calc19:32
knomei'm most interested in the ISO size19:32
pleia2yeah, need spreadsheet19:32
SkippersBossAdd LO writer let people install calc19:33
knomecommon LO packages are quite big, so in a way it isn't too bad to install more components at that point19:33
ali1234everyone who has to deal with money in any capacity needs a spreadsheet - that's everyone19:33
SkippersBosspleia2, you have a fast inernet connection19:33
SkippersBossok, /me sold19:33
ali1234unless they are like 1219:33
knomeali1234, actually... :P19:33
knomewell, i only use spreadsheets for invoices.19:33
ali1234ironically i have a separate app for that :)19:34
knomebut yeah, i guess it's essential..19:34
knomecan't think me writing invoices manually with writer19:34
ali1234yeah that would really suck19:34
knomeeven though it would be possible.19:34
knomei'm off now, but i'm back later19:36
SkippersBosstype writers.... who would sell the ink tape19:37
SkippersBossAh ok19:37
knomedon't let me being away stop discussing :)19:37
elfygnumeric and abiword are apps I use like gmb - run them to test testcases and to test 19:38
SkippersBossSo LO writer  and calc yes19:38
SkippersBossgmb a mayb but display options reduced19:39
SkippersBossGimp a mayb or a No ?19:39
ali1234my problem with gmb is more about the weird bugs and quirks19:39
elfyand I assume that if we used LO we'd be able to forget about bugs as a team19:39
ali1234except for the theme bugs, yes19:40
ali1234libreoffice-gtk has many quirks that only show up with certain themes19:40
SkippersBossI feel a warning notice coming up... 19:41
ali1234those are all superficial anyway though19:41
SkippersBossanyone any other thoughts ??19:42
ElderDryasali1234: Are these "theme bugs" in LO with the themes that Xubuntu ships with or other/add on themes?19:43
ali1234ElderDryas: each theme seems to trigger a different set of quirks19:43
ElderDryasali1234: Including the "shipped with" themes?19:44
SkippersBossMind you, Abiword has had the same issues in the past19:44
ali1234ElderDryas: yes, shimmer themes trigger some19:44
Unit193knome: libreoffice-math is pulled in too.  Not looking fantastic, but not too bad.19:45
elfywell if nothing else - if we do move we've got a while till 16.04 :)19:45
SkippersBossYes but that's a long time in which things could brake19:47
elfybut that's the time scale we've got to work with19:47
elfyis my point19:47
SkippersBossFair enough19:47
SkippersBossSuper ficial I can deal with. A mention in the FAQ could help here19:49
ali1234here's an example of the type of bug i'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nY0uA5yI8Y19:50
elfybrainwash: drag and drop something to desktop here ignores where I've dropped it 19:50
ali1234the tick box doesn't redraw until you move the mouse off it19:50
ali1234this one only happens in compiz, and not xfwm19:50
ali1234but it's representative of the kind of thing i mean19:51
ali1234it's trivial but can be confusing if you click the checkbox and it doesn't change19:51
SkippersBossah compiz19:51
ali1234it still happens with xfwm slightly, but there the middle part of the checkbox redraws, and there's just an orange border left behind19:52
SkippersBosspeople I have to leave you all for now. Family business to attend to19:53
Unit193knome: Yeah, a tad on the big side. :/19:53
elfycya SkippersBoss 19:53
SkippersBossbut thiw discussion is not over19:53
elfyUnit193: but then again - what has size got to do with the argument - surely we're not close to 4.6Gb with it :)19:53
ali1234Unit193: how big?19:54
Unit193ali1234: 1078804480 vs 1007681536 32bit utopic both.19:54
ali1234something we didn't consider is people who use the live system as their main environment19:54
elfyshould we?19:55
ali1234i dunno, just saying we didn't :)19:55
elfyI'd be happy to consider them - just not at the expense of people that are installing to disk19:56
Unit193http://paste.openstack.org/show/97896/  I use it as a live system on my flash, but then again I don't count as it's my own build.19:56
elfyand how much extra would it be if we'd lost gimp too 19:57
elfyif that's the concern here19:58
elfyif not just ignore me :)19:59
Unit193~30MB, I'd say.  https://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-14.10-lo-i386.iso19:59
ali1234so a net gain of 40mb?20:00
brainwashelfy: thanks for testing, actually thought that it was fixed at some point20:01
Unit193ali1234: That'd be in addition to the 70MB from gnumeric, abiword, and gmusicbrowser.20:01
ali1234wait, the 1078804480 figure is with or without gimp?20:03
Unit193That still has gimp installed.20:03
elfybrainwash: welcome, I commented 20:04
ali1234and it's 70MB bigger than the standard one, so without gimp it would only be 40MB bigger... is what i was saying20:04
Unit193Correct, just have to remember you're trading a music player, image editor, and office suite for another office suite.20:08
Unit193Could perhaps blacklist -math, at least keeping that one out.20:09
elfyon the other hand - why are we worrying about size 20:10
Unit193Because 1G is our max right now, IIRC.20:10
ali1234yeah, fitting on a USB flash drive is a good thing20:10
Unit193Though, most that'd be in use at this point I'd hope would be bigger than 1G, more like 4 or 8.20:11
Noskcajbluesabre, Could you upload https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-session/merge2/+merge/231095 ? bzr is having issues with it, so it would probably have to be a straight upload20:12
Unit193!info xfce4-session | Noskcaj 20:13
ubottuNoskcaj: xfce4-session (source: xfce4-session): Xfce4 Session Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.10.1-3ubuntu5 (trusty), package size 592 kB, installed size 2606 kB20:13
Unit193!info xfce4-session utopic20:14
ubottuxfce4-session (source: xfce4-session): Xfce4 Session Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.11.0-1ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 598 kB, installed size 2600 kB20:14
Unit193Bleh, stupid default...20:14
NoskcajI'd missed that20:14
Unit193There's still the xfce4-volumed merge, super simple too.20:16
Unit193Nope, not volumed, -mixer?20:17
Noskcajok, i'll do that today20:17
Unit193http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/x/xfce4-mixer/xfce4-mixer_4.11.0-1_changelog heh, well you should know about it.20:19
knomeUnit193, mhm, i'm not really willing to go over 1GB :)22:29
bluesabreevening folks22:53
ochosievening bluesabre 22:54
ochosiheading off to bed already22:54
bluesabreochosi: wimp22:54
ochosihey, i did my release! ;)22:54
ochosinow you do yours before you start calling me names22:54
bluesabrefair enough22:54
* bluesabre has to do releases and upload them all in one night22:55
ochosiwell you can focus on those where the FFe will be hardest to get through22:56
bluesabre!info light-locker-settings utopic22:57
ubottulight-locker-settings (source: light-locker-settings): simple configuration tool for light-locker. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.0-0ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 18 kB, installed size 278 kB22:57
ochosiyeah, that needs a new version22:57
bluesabreochosi, elfy ^ that's the newest one22:57
bluesabrebut I guess there are some issues22:57
ochosioh, it is?22:57
ochosiwith the xfpm detection?22:58
bluesabrethat should work fine22:58
ochosierr? :)22:58
bluesabreyes, xfpm detection works in that version22:59
ochosiUnit193: you saw my convo with cjwatson i presume?22:59
bluesabrebut yeah, I'll do some debugging22:59
* bluesabre returns to reading backlog23:00
ochosiwell, after FF23:00
Unit193ochosi: Right after you pinged?  Wasn't much of one, more of a "Oh right, that."23:01
ochosiUnit193: well at least he promised to take care of it soon23:04
Unit193Thought he was going to already?23:04
ochosino clue, that was the first time i talked to him about it23:05
bluesabreUnit193: you needed something?23:06
Unit193bluesabre: Don't have it yet in Debian, you can't sync it yet. :323:07
bluesabrecarry on23:08
Unit193bluesabre: Are you permitted to do a fake-sync yet?  The cutoff is midnight UTC right?23:13
bluesabreI do not know when the cutoff is23:14
bluesabreMidnight UTC Thursday or Friday?23:14
bluesabreas in, are we already late?23:14
knomei'd say midnight UTC thursday23:15
bluesabreI know that the freezes are usually announced by email23:16
bluesabreso I'll just keep working23:16
ochosigreat bluesabre, awesome sauce!23:17
knomewell, you can double-check by cooperating in #ubuntu-release23:17
bluesabrethat too23:17
knomebesides, there's still time before thu midnight :P23:17
Unit193Yeah, but I have to get it into Debian first.23:17
Unit193(The other one I know isn't going to make it.)23:21
* bluesabre runs a test build before pushing greeter to ubuntu23:43
ochosibluesabre: hope andrew's fix works23:47
ochosinow i really gotta finally hit the sack23:47
bluesabreit does for 1.923:47
ochosigood night and good luck!23:47
bluesabre1.8.6 fails to build because of gtk deprecations, will have to try trusty later23:47
bluesabrebut good enough for me to push the package we're interested in23:47
ochosihmm stupid gtk23:47
bluesabrexfpm can be tomorrow23:47
bluesabresince its just a point release23:48
bluesabregot it23:54
bluesabreelfy: re the greeter release, we'll need to update the greeter config in x-d-s, so you may notice your hostname and clock missing, everything else should be fine23:59

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