[16:58] <cprofitt> hello coolbhavi
[17:00] <coolbhavi> hello cprofitt
[17:01] <dholbach> hiya
[17:01] <coolbhavi> hey dholbach
[17:01] <YokoZar> Hey folks
[17:01] <cprofitt> hello YokoZar
[17:01] <coolbhavi> now is the LC catchup right?
[17:02] <cprofitt> I believe so.
[17:02] <elfy> hi everyone
[17:02] <dholbach> do we have anyone else from the CC and LC here?
[17:02] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[17:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 21 17:03:06 2014 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:02] <skellat> o.
[17:02] <skellat> o/
[17:03] <dholbach> #chair YokoZar cprofitt elfy
[17:03] <meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt dholbach elfy
[17:03] <mhall119> o/
[17:03] <dholbach> #chair mhall119
[17:03] <meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt dholbach elfy mhall119
[17:03] <dholbach> #topic Catching up with the LoCo Council
[17:03] <dholbach> hey coolbhavi, skellat - how are you doing?
[17:03] <dholbach> thanks for coming
[17:03] <skellat> Getting ready for a music festival this weekend that I will be conduct religious services at.
[17:04] <skellat> Been a weird week, I haven't had to write a sermon for a while...
[17:04] <coolbhavi> dholbach, fine just been busy switching between hospital n work
[17:04] <mhall119> jose: costales: you guys around for the meeting?
[17:05] <dholbach> how has this last cycle been for you on the LC? did you feel it was busy times?
[17:06] <coolbhavi> dholbach, sort of. we had a couple of teething issues too regarding locos
[17:06] <dholbach> and you've been helping them out getting started?
[17:06] <skellat> The Catalan issue ground things to a halt for far too long though.
[17:07] <skellat> We've gotten things back up and running, though.
[17:07] <mhall119> skellat: coolbhavi: I sent an email to the LC on 8/14 about that, did it go through?
[17:07] <coolbhavi> skellat, +1
[17:08] <elfy> you aren't the only people who thought it went on for too long ;)
[17:08] <skellat> mhall119: Yes Michael, we've got.  I don't think it has been executed yet as the six of us have been madly off in all directions with either UbuConLA participation for the majority or my getting ready to produce the show this weekend with the rest of the Music Along The River 2014 board.
[17:08] <cprofitt> skellat there are issues that arise on occassion which take care to deal with.
[17:08] <elfy> +1 cprofitt
[17:09] <dholbach> do many teams reach out to you for help in one way or another?
[17:10] <czajkowski> Apologies for being late
[17:10] <skellat> The Greeks have, we tried to help the Moroccans with their customs issues, we had that request for a take-over of Nebraska to get things rebooted
[17:10] <dholbach> #chair czajkowski
[17:10] <meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt czajkowski dholbach elfy mhall119
[17:11] <dholbach> brilliant... I just wanted to get a feeling for how much people know that you're there to support them
[17:11] <skellat> A member of a Membership Board referred a new leader for Oregon to me to talk to about taking over out there in lieu of Mr. Kerensa and he did ask for assistance which we've tried to provide
[17:11] <cprofitt> what assistance do you offer teams looking to become verified?
[17:11] <skellat> First: Don't Panic!
[17:12] <skellat> Second: Tell us your story.  We want to know where you are going and what you want to be doing.
[17:12] <YokoZar> Sometimes I've seen locos come up with some neat stuff (eg their own versions of printed stickers) -- generally things that are useful for locos to give/use at events.  Is there a resource where such "locally made" type stuff could be easily pooled?
[17:13] <YokoZar> (and edited, presumably, like a banner for a demo table)
[17:13] <skellat> coolbhavi: Could you take over?  Oregon leader needs help over in #ubuntu-locoteams and I need to assist him.
[17:13] <coolbhavi> sure skellat
[17:13] <coolbhavi> YokoZar, right now I havent heard of such stuff
[17:14] <elfy> but possibly a useful thing to have ?
[17:14] <coolbhavi> perhaps we can have the locos uploading the artwork on their wiki page and pool them across maybe
[17:15] <czajkowski> well in the past we've encouraged people to upload to spread ubuntu
[17:15] <czajkowski> one resouce for all to see and use
[17:15] <dholbach> yeah
[17:15] <czajkowski> *resource
[17:16] <dholbach> maybe it just needs to be mentioned here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamKnowledgeBase
[17:16] <czajkowski> http://spreadubuntu.org/
[17:16] <czajkowski> dholbach: +1
[17:16] <coolbhavi> ah thanks czajkowski
[17:16] <cprofitt> I like spreadubuntu.org good site
[17:17] <cprofitt> very good pool of ideas and resources for loco teams
[17:17] <cprofitt> +1 czajkowski
[17:17]  * elfy forgot about spreadbuntu
[17:18]  * coolbhavi too has forgotten 
[17:18] <dholbach> have any of the LC folks been involved in any Global Jam activities already?
[17:18] <czajkowski> so maybe this would be good to metion on loco contacts lists and on your blog
[17:18] <czajkowski> to highlight the resouce for all ?
[17:18] <dholbach> we are going to have two hangouts on the 27th to talk a bit about how to organise events, etc
[17:19] <coolbhavi> czajkowski, sure will do that over the weekend
[17:19] <dholbach> it'd be nice if we had some participation from the LC (or from some LoCos)
[17:19] <skellat> dholbach: No, not yet to my knowledge.  We've been mainly reacting to CCT scheduling things at times where it has been unlikely a majority of us could/would show up.
[17:19] <PabloRubianes> sorry i'm late
[17:19] <skellat> 2/3 of the Council is based in Eastern Time
[17:19] <dholbach> skellat, I don't think we always need ALL folks to be there
[17:20] <dholbach> if one or two can make it, that's better than nobody :-)
[17:20] <skellat> So a 1000 UTC meeting has 4 out of 6 LoCo Council members having to be awake and focused at 6 AM
[17:20] <dholbach> we have one hangout on 10 another one at 19 UTC
[17:20] <skellat> coolbhavi: How does 1000 UTC sound for you?  Good timing or bad?
[17:20] <mhall119> skellat: that's why we have two
[17:20] <coolbhavi> dholbach, I'll make it I think for the 10 UTC as m working from home now :)
[17:21] <dholbach> so yeah... I just thought I'd mention it as Global Jam is always a nice opportunity to have LoCo activities happen around the world :)
[17:21] <dholbach> coolbhavi, ah, nice
[17:22] <mhall119> skellat: can those 4 who can't make 1000 UTC make 1900 UTC?
[17:22] <mhall119> or even just one of those 4?
[17:22] <skellat> Probably
[17:22] <PabloRubianes> on weekdays I cant
[17:22] <PabloRubianes> :(
[17:22] <mhall119> I did send the LC an email about this as well, yesterday
[17:23] <skellat> That would put it at 3 PM for me, jose, PabloRubianes, and SergioMeneses
[17:23] <skellat> I'm on furlough from work so I can probably be there
[17:23] <dholbach> well, no worries - maybe we can some folks on, and maybe some folks from other LoCos
[17:24] <dholbach> are there any things you can think of we can do to get more activity at the Global Jam?
[17:24] <mhall119> skellat: coolbhavi: how is communication going among the LC members, are you able to have all or a majority of people meet regularly to discuss and resolve issues?
[17:24] <dholbach> ... or another event we could do?
[17:25] <coolbhavi> mhall119, yes mostly
[17:25] <mhall119> coolbhavi: how regularly?
[17:25] <PabloRubianes> mhall119: we use email and trello
[17:25] <PabloRubianes> to combat timezones
[17:26] <mhall119> PabloRubianes: I was wondering about realtime discussions
[17:26] <mhall119> as email stretches things out considerably
[17:26] <coolbhavi> mhall119, once a month on IRC
[17:26] <mhall119> coolbhavi: and is attendence at those generally pretty good?
[17:28] <coolbhavi> mhall119, I guess so because most times it will be 2 AM my time and if I can I'll attend orelse vote over email or chat on topics if not possible
[17:28] <PabloRubianes> is really had to be the all 6 in the same time
[17:28] <PabloRubianes> that's a reallity
[17:28]  * skellat notes we should have had a meeting Tuesday but didn't
[17:29] <dholbach> do you still have many plans for the next months?
[17:29] <elfy> PabloRubianes: indeed it is - not much can be done about that, as long as inter team comms are open that's the best lots of teams can hope
[17:30] <PabloRubianes> elfy: yes
[17:30] <PabloRubianes> dholbach: we just finish the most important issue we had
[17:31] <coolbhavi> dholbach, yes primarily the loco policy should be made to fit most cases coming in which is on priority now
[17:31] <PabloRubianes> and now we need to roll the information
[17:31] <skellat> dholbach: We've got expirations on verified status coming up through the end of October and then none until late in January
[17:31] <PabloRubianes> about the subteams
[17:31] <mhall119> coolbhavi: PabloRubianes: have you tried to move the meeting time to get more regular attendees?
[17:31] <dholbach> ok
[17:31] <PabloRubianes> and we had the expectation to have a online loco summit but we need to figurate dates and topics
[17:32] <PabloRubianes> mhall119: yes we had some meetings on saturday
[17:32] <mhall119> PabloRubianes: Ubuntu Online Summit is Nov. 12-14, can you use that?
[17:32] <PabloRubianes> mhall119: no, as we are not available in weekdays
[17:32] <dholbach> nice idea - what's going to happen at the loco summit?
[17:32] <coolbhavi> mhall119, we have to figure out a optimal time yet as its very hard and we had some meets over weekend as PabloRubianes said
[17:33] <PabloRubianes> we think to have a one day event on a saturday
[17:33] <PabloRubianes> mhall119: the thing about meetings is sometimes for me is 10am and for coolbhavi is 11pm
[17:34] <mhall119> PabloRubianes: I understand the difficulty, we deal it that constantly in Canonical :)
[17:34] <skellat> mhall119: UOS falls after the start of the fiscal year at work so I may or may not be recalled to active status.  Since I only get 5 days or less notice to report for duty, I can't even commit right now due to some factors well outside my control.
[17:34] <dholbach> what's the idea behind the summit?
[17:35] <PabloRubianes> dholbach: mainly loco related topic sharing
[17:35] <PabloRubianes> good ideas that can be replicated
[17:35] <dholbach> very very nice
[17:35] <coolbhavi> dholbach, loco summit in our view is to have a hangout or IRC meet on loco related stuff PabloRubianes :) +1
[17:35] <mhall119> PabloRubianes: would you like to use summit.ubuntu.com for this? I'm happy to set it up for you
[17:35] <dholbach> brilliant
[17:36] <dholbach> I think we need more activities like that :)
[17:36] <PabloRubianes> mhall119: sure
[17:36] <mhall119> PabloRubianes: once a date is picked give me a ping
[17:36] <dholbach> is there anything else the CC could help you with?
[17:36] <PabloRubianes> sure, thanks
[17:36] <PabloRubianes> dholbach: some locos are stuck with lack of activity
[17:37] <PabloRubianes> maybe share good ideas could help
[17:37] <coolbhavi> dholbach, and lack of response too
[17:37] <dholbach> PabloRubianes, yes, definitely - if we can do more to enable LoCos (newcomer LoCos or newcomer people or old ones) to do more, then that's great
[17:37] <mhall119> PabloRubianes: is the LC also sharing ideas with those teams?
[17:37]  * coolbhavi remembers the d-a-t reachout problem
[17:38] <mhall119> PabloRubianes: the UGJ workshops are designed to do just that, help teams think of activities and organize an event for doing them
[17:39] <dholbach> maybe we should have a chat some time soon to figure out what we in the CC/LC/Community team/other interested folks can do to unblock/reenergise those teams
[17:39] <dholbach> (and yeah, we'll find a way or time to do it ;-))
[17:39] <PabloRubianes> dholbach: I would love to
[17:39] <skellat> mhall119: Reaching out to contacts may eventually become an issue as loco-contacts and the actual contacts themselves don't overlap as much as they should
[17:39] <mhall119> +1
[17:39] <dholbach> rock on! :-D
[17:39] <PabloRubianes> and the rest of the loco council too
[17:40] <coolbhavi> +1
[17:40] <mhall119> skellat: loco-contacts has always been less-than-useful for reliable communication with teams
[17:40] <PabloRubianes> mhall119: dholbach also I think we should reach the ubuntu translators
[17:40] <dholbach> great idea
[17:40] <mhall119> if we can find a better alternative, I'm all for it
[17:40] <dholbach> we should make a shopping list of all those good ideas some time soon :-)
[17:40] <PabloRubianes> as much of the info/ideas got lost for non-english speakers
[17:40] <mhall119> on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/
[17:40] <skellat> mhall119: jose had a few ideas, I'll have to get them from him at some point
[17:41] <mhall119> skellat: if it's something people can do for a Jam, please have him add it to the appropriate sub-pages of the one above
[17:41] <dholbach> all right... anything else? IIRC we're still supposed to meet up with the TB :)
[17:42] <cprofitt> I am good.
[17:42] <skellat> I don't think so.  I have dirty dishes in the sink to go take care of...
[17:42] <cprofitt> is anyone from the TB here?
[17:42] <cprofitt> thanks skellat
[17:42] <PabloRubianes> thanks for having us here
[17:42] <czajkowski> thanks for coming folks
[17:42] <elfy> good to see you all PabloRubianes :)
[17:42] <coolbhavi> Nothing from my side too thanks all!
[17:42] <cprofitt> PabloRubianes and coolbhavi and all the LC
[17:43] <mhall119> thanks skellat coolbhavi PabloRubianes
[17:43] <dholbach> yeah, thanks a lot!
[17:43] <dholbach> keep those LoCos happy and active and let's chat some time soon again :)
[17:44] <coolbhavi> thanks :)
[17:44] <dholbach> #topic Catching up with the Technical Board
[17:44] <mhall119> and please let us know if there's any issue finishing that sub-teams issue
[17:45] <coolbhavi> mhall119, sure we will keep you guys posted
[17:45] <mhall119> who's around from the TB?
[17:45] <mhall119> thanks coolbhavi
[17:46] <slangasek> mhall119: hi
[17:46] <mhall119> howdy slangasek
[17:46] <slangasek> possibly I'm the only one :)
[17:47] <elfy> hi slangasek
[17:47]  * mhall119 just poked a couple others
[17:47] <cprofitt> hello slangasek
[17:47] <slangasek> mhall119: I believe all the others are EOD / vac / conference
[17:47] <slangasek> well, + infinity
[17:48] <dholbach> how was the last cycle for the TB? have things been busy? was it a lot of the usual TB tasks?
[17:48] <mhall119> slangasek: we let them EOD?
[17:48] <slangasek> mhall119: German employment laws...
[17:48] <mhall119> darn those hippies
[17:49] <slangasek> dholbach: I've only been on the TB since the last election, so I'm not sure I have the perspective to say whether it's been "the usual"
[17:49] <slangasek> it seems reasonably low-key to me
[17:49]  * dholbach is German as well :)
[17:49] <slangasek> mostly there's been a focus on questions of exceptions to our update policies
[17:50] <mhall119> slangasek: you mean package updated in the archives?
[17:50] <slangasek> in SRUs, yes
[17:50] <dholbach> exceptions to regular SRUs or did this have to do with any activities of people working on the phone?
[17:50] <mhall119> I recall there being some discussion about how the phone work may have changed that
[17:51] <slangasek> well, the phone work hasn't really impacted the Ubuntu archive update policies, certainly not to the level of TB involvement
[17:51] <slangasek> some of you know that the upcoming "RTM" milestone for the Canonical product launch is being done in a derived archive
[17:52] <mhall119> slangasek: yup, has that spit happened now?
[17:52] <dholbach> ok... as I'm not on the TB mailing list, I wasn't quite sure how much of it was discussed there
[17:52] <dholbach> mhall119, split?
[17:52] <slangasek> which deliberately decouples it from the rest of Ubuntu development in a way that minimizes risks to the rest of the Ubuntu community, while avoiding some of the worst aspects of divergence that we've had in the past with Canonical commercial projects
[17:53] <mhall119> dholbach: well, copy from the Ubuntu archives to this derivative
[17:53] <slangasek> mhall119: the ubuntu-rtm archive branch is in place, and I believe that with today's just-promoted image, the last bulk package copy will be happening shortly
[17:53] <dholbach> mhall119, you said "spit" which confused me a bit :)
[17:53] <mhall119> poor word choice, sorry
[17:54] <mhall119> slangasek: so the phone delivery stuff is safely separated from the normal Ubuntu distro development now, right?
[17:55] <slangasek> yes
[17:55] <slangasek> the packages are supposed to be landed in utopic before going into ubuntu-rtm, by policy, so that may mean some feature-freeze exceptions anyway... but it's mostly in package corners that don't affect other flavors
[17:56] <czajkowski> slangasek: will the desktop at some point get any benefit from this phone development ?
[17:56] <dholbach> sounds like a lot of the development processes run like a well-oiled machine where even the introduction of a new Ubuntu product doesn't cause hiccups
[17:56] <slangasek> well, I'm not sure how to answer that question
[17:56] <slangasek> eventually the goal is to have unity8+mir on the desktop
[17:56] <mhall119> czajkowski: it's already had some, by virtue of us making the core stuff more efficient
[17:57] <slangasek> mhall119: good point
[17:57] <YokoZar> I'd like to ask about click packages.  Specifically it seems like there are good chunks of the archive (universe in particular) that could be converted downward to click packages.
[17:57] <mhall119> and also click and app confinement, how much of that is going to require TB decisions and how much has already been discussed?
[17:57] <YokoZar>   I'm curious about the community implications of that -- we might be alienating some ubuntu packager (or debian one), but on the other hand we would be more directly involving upstream (if we could get them to use the click packages)
[17:57] <dholbach> some bits are the same already, like the indicators, but it'll take a bit longer to move the other core bits to the desktop
[17:57] <slangasek> YokoZar: there are no plans to move universe to click packages; apt is with us for the long hall
[17:58] <mhall119> YokoZar: I don't know of anybody who's packaged an app for dpkg that isn't thrilled to have click as an option :)
[17:58] <dholbach> haha
[17:58] <slangasek> I wonder, am I answering these questions with a TB hat on, or a Canonical manager hat :)
[17:58] <YokoZar> slangasek: I don't mean all of universe, I mean specific subparts that aren't being well served by apt.  A good example are online games that stop working after updates and have to wait for SRUs
[17:58] <dholbach> YokoZar, I could imagine that it will be important how this is presented to the user
[17:59] <mhall119> YokoZar: I'm not sure what the community implications would be here though, what are you thinking about?
[17:59] <slangasek> mhall119: I'm not expecting much TB discussions about click and app confinement - the Ubuntu Security Team know what they're doing, what do they need us looking over their shoulder for? :)
[18:00] <mhall119> slangasek: how about things like app lifecycle management or image-based updates?
[18:00] <YokoZar> mhall119:  Well, suppose we have a maintainer of that game package in Ubuntu that would probably be better as a click package.  We need to reach out and migrate it, but that might feel like a "demotion" of sorts if we do it wrong.
[18:00] <mhall119> YokoZar: maybe, but I think it'll be the opposite really
[18:01] <slangasek> YokoZar: so, blacklisting packages from universe doesn't scale very well; I don't think we're going to be removing a lot of packages that we got from Debian, but maybe there are some Ubuntu-specific packages that can be moved to click
[18:01] <mhall119> click packages are easier to make, easier to maintain, and easier to put intothe store
[18:01] <slangasek> mhall119: app lifecycle management doesn't seem like something that needs our input.  system-image has broad implications, and sabdfl asked for TB feedback on it which I'm afraid hasn't happened yet
[18:01] <YokoZar> They can also come more directly from upstreams
[18:02] <dholbach> YokoZar, the click app and the package are also going to store data in different locations, we will have to see how things are going to look in the dash when things get launched, etc - there are a lot of unanswered questions
[18:02] <YokoZar> Which might be different people ;)
[18:02] <slangasek> mostly because the technology is so raw in terms of what can be done on the desktop that it's hard to form an opinion
[18:03] <mhall119> slangasek: ok
[18:03] <mhall119> so it sounds like things have been pretty quiet for the TB lately
[18:04] <slangasek> I'd say so
[18:04] <mhall119> any blockers, issue or anything that the CC can help with?
[18:04] <slangasek> not that I'm aware of
[18:04] <mhall119> does anybody else have any questions for slangasek ?
[18:04] <YokoZar> So Ubuntu SDK == supported by Canonical
[18:05] <dholbach> I'm also done with questions and need to head off to dinner in a bit :)
[18:05] <YokoZar> I'm wondering if we might reach a point where people want something in the SDK cause it would be useful but it might not be a canonical thing
[18:05] <dholbach> YokoZar, could you elaborate on that question?
[18:05] <slangasek> see?  these Germans, just because the sun's down they think they should stop working
[18:05] <dholbach> slangasek, I'm thinking of dinner
[18:05] <dholbach> :-P
[18:05] <slangasek> :-)
[18:06] <YokoZar> Basically I'm wondering how our community will scale to some of the "not official but popular" tooling that's built up around, say, Android
[18:06] <dholbach> YokoZar, right now, if you're an app developer and something is not present on the image, you can bundle it
[18:06] <dholbach> but I expect more and more discussions coming up on the phone mailing list
[18:06] <YokoZar> dholbach: Right, so I imagine a future where a lot of things are bundling the same thing, and we then want to have some sort of process for promoting it to officialness, and I'm wondering if that can happen only if Canonical says so
[18:07] <YokoZar> (and supports)
[18:07] <slangasek> YokoZar: I would prefer not to try to adjudicate a future hypothetical conflict between Canonical and the community over curation of the Ubuntu SDK
[18:07] <mhall119> YokoZar: ultimately the SDK packages are like any other, you work with the owners of them if you want to add something
[18:07] <YokoZar> It is only hypothetical at this point, it's true.  I just wanted to make sure I understand how things are at this point
[18:08] <mhall119> the SDK team in Canonical has been very open to community feedback and contributions
[18:08] <YokoZar> mhall119: Which implies supportness and main, perhaps as it should be
[18:08] <slangasek> If there are strong technical arguments why something should be added to the Ubuntu SDK over Canonical's objections, then I'm sure the TB will listen; but the standard would need to be fairly high for something like that, given the by-definition nature of what the Ubuntu SDK is meant to be
[18:09] <YokoZar> Thanks :)
[18:09] <dholbach> all right... I need to head out - thanks slangasek and everyone else - see you tomorrow :)
[18:09]  * slangasek waves to dholbach 
[18:09] <elfy> cya dholbach
[18:09] <mhall119> dang, left before I could say goodbye, hippy
[18:10] <mhall119> alright, anything else before we end this?
[18:10] <elfy> not from me
[18:11] <mhall119> ok, thanks for coming by and representing the TB slangasek
[18:11] <slangasek> my pleasure
[18:11] <mhall119> #endmeeting
[18:11] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 21 18:11:27 2014 UTC.
[18:11] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-21-17.03.moin.txt
[18:11] <elfy> thanks all