bluesabreochosi: secret to building with lxpanel support?01:40
bluesabrechecking for optional package lxpanel >= 0.5.6... not found01:40
bluesabrelxpanel:  Installed: 0.6.2-0ubuntu101:40
bluesabrebbl to package more stuff in the morning01:42
Unit193Alrighty, thanks.01:43
elfyUnit193: ochosi - once tasksel is  actually done I guess we can move on a bit and get the testcases up and available for people then call06:45
elfyochosi: noticed a strange thing when writing mails in thunderbird theming wise, not sure if it's *us* or not - http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-210814-075620.php and http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-210814-075656.php06:58
ochosimorning elfy 07:26
ochosihm, thunderbird isn't really gtk, so not much i can do abuot that07:27
elfymorning boss 07:27
ochosiwhich part looks off to you exactly?07:27
elfyI did wonder, but thought I'd mention it07:27
ochosisure, anytime07:27
ochosithese things are important, i don't see everything :)07:27
ochosi(and for instance thunderbird i don't use)07:27
ochosibluesabre: i'll ask eric, i really have never tried to build with lxde support07:28
elfyhave a look in the second screeny - below the tool bar - it's *sunk* 07:28
ochosiyou mean the textarea for the email?07:29
ochosior the formatting toolbar07:29
ochosior the weird lines for the addressees07:29
elfythe weird lines is what made me look - but it's almost like from the toolbar down is all at a different level 07:30
ochosiright, no, i guess that's a thunderbird "style feature" :)07:31
elfybut if it's nothing to do with us - that's fine, I'll fiddle about with it and see what I can find07:31
elfyochosi: then it's a new feature :p07:31
ochosii guess it is, yeah07:31
elfyI'll see if others are seeing it in non-Xubuntu07:32
ochosigood idea07:33
brainwashelfy, ochosi: bug 134730508:38
ubottubug 1347305 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Address fields are grey when composing messages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134730508:38
brainwashalso noticed that the monochrome icons are gone in thunderbird08:38
brainwashthat's bug 134712408:38
ubottubug 1347124 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Thunderbird monochrome icons missing" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134712408:38
brainwash^ won't fix :/08:38
elfybrainwash: thanks - but odd why it's just appeared here08:42
elfyaaah I guess v3108:42
knomeslickymasterWork, (how) have you translated "ThisEntry" (?)09:15
ubottuDebian bug 745509 in wnpp "RFP: light-locker-settings -- Simple configuration tool for light-locker." [Wishlist,Open]09:16
slickymasterWorkknome, where is that one, in MenuLibre?09:18
slickymasterWorkgive me a second09:19
knomei'm mostly wondering if it should be a translation at all, or if i should keep it as is09:21
knomei mean, whether it's a known technical term for something09:21
slickymasterWorksorry knome, something came up here at work09:22
knomeCopy text 09:22
knome"Hidden": Hidden should have been called Deleted. It means the user deleted09:22
knome(at his level) something that was present (at an upper level, e.g. in the09:22
knomesystem dirs). It's strictly equivalent to the .desktop file not existing at09:22
knomeall, as far as that user is concerned. This can also be used to "uninstall"09:22
knomeexisting files (e.g. due to a renaming) - by letting make install install a09:22
knomefile with Hidden=true in it.09:22
knomebluesabre, ^09:22
knomebluesabre, i don't think that description is something that the *user* needs/wants to read in menulibre09:22
knomeslickymasterWork, no problem09:22
knomebluesabre, thinking same of some of the other tooltips too.09:23
slickymasterWorkI haven't. And that's not the only one, there's also the tags "NoDisplay", "StartupNotify", "TryExec" that I think shouldn't be translated09:23
knomethose are the tooltips09:24
slickymasterWorkI was thinking in maintaining them as they are, but I noticed that the french translation opt to translate them09:24
knomethe tags in "Quotes" should actually not be translated..09:25
knomebecause they are the technical tags in the .desktop files09:25
knomeso if you understand .desktop-files on a raw level, translating them just confuses you (more)09:26
slickymasterWorkactually I was just referring to "NoDisplay", "StartupNotify", didn't saw if they translate ThisEntry09:26
knomei was referring to those you were referring09:26
knomei actually think bluesabre should fix the translation template.09:26
slickymasterWorklol, we're speaking about the same thing, tehn :909:26
slickymasterWorkhm hm, agree09:27
knomeand as i said, some of those tooltips go on a way too specific, technical level09:27
knomelike the "hidden" tooltip09:27
knome^ as posted aboe09:27
knomeit could simply be:09:27
knome"The field is stricly equivalent to the .desktop file not existing at all, as far as the user is concerned."09:28
knomeor, "It's ..."09:28
slickymasterWorkthat's my opinion also. And besides tooltips are ment too be descriptive, not technical 09:29
bluesabreknome, slickymasterWork: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html09:32
slickymasterWorkbluesabre, but isn't that the template from which to work, thus not meaning it should be transferred verbatim to every application?09:35
knomebluesabre, i've looke at that page, but i don't think it's a good idea to copy it word-to-word09:36
slickymasterWorkshouldn't it be considered like a master script guideline?09:36
bluesabrestop writing the same thing, guys09:36
* slickymasterWork views it like knome 09:36
knomebluesabre, also, since the tags that shouldn't be translated are at the beginning of the line, you could simply leave them out09:36
bluesabreI know, I know09:37
knomebluesabre, i mean, even the english version shouldn't be exactly the same as in the docs09:37
bluesabreI wanted to fix it, can't really fix it while on the 2.0.x series, has to be with the next release09:37
bluesabreI'd be just as happy to drop the tooltips entirely09:38
ochosioh hey bluesabre 09:39
ochosiearly morning09:39
slickymasterWorkhey ochosi 09:39
ochosimorning slickymasterWork 09:39
bluesabrebut yeah, haven't worked on menulibre-next yet... spent most of this cycle maintaining 2.0 for trusty/utopic09:43
Unit193Hrm, we getting xfpm 1.3.2?09:43
bluesabreyeah, I can push it at any time09:44
bluesabreochosi, let me know if you figure out the lxpanel building09:44
bluesabreI'm sure the lubuntu folks would be appreciative09:44
Unit193Aha, that's what it's pending on.09:44
bluesabrebut yeah, I'll push what I have before heading to work this morning09:45
slickymasterWorkdamn LP timeouts09:48
ochosibluesabre: what's the plan with the display dialog?09:51
bluesabre:\ was really hoping nick would appear09:51
ochosiwell just man up and do the release09:51
ochosiafter all, it's just a dev release09:52
bluesabrepushed xfpm and xds updates10:07
ochosifwiw, i've gotten in touch with gilir (via email) a longer while ago about the lubuntu plugin – and we also asked him for some input/feedback/testing, but nothing ever came of it10:07
Unit193@ubuntu.com?  He tends to run rather busy.  As far as testing, it'd have to be built but I know who to poke.10:12
meetingologyUnit193: Error: "ubuntu.com?" is not a valid command.10:12
ochosiUnit193: well he did initially reply, so he surely knows about it ;)10:16
ochosihe just never gave concrete feedback or tested it10:16
ochosibut if you know who to poke, please do so!10:16
Unit193Only in terms of testing, like poking the Elf here it won't help with building it properly.10:17
ochosiright, then i misunderstood you10:25
ochosii assumed you knew who to poke for building10:25
ochosiUnit193: wanna poke cjwatson again for tasksel?10:26
ochosiright, i can send him another email after sean has uploaded the 1.3.2 package10:27
Unit193I could PPA the lxpanel plugin, but that's about it.10:31
ochosiwell that's something10:32
Unit193Annnd, I'm out.10:37
Unit193Ahahaha, I see why it's breaking. :D10:41
Unit193Shoot, I was supposed to go out.10:42
knome"out"? what's that?10:43
knomebluesabre, what do you recommend doing with the tooltips with 2.0.x then?10:43
knomebluesabre, tbh, i'm considering just untranslating all/most of them for now until we actually have better versions of the instructions10:44
knomebluesabre, and, how do you want to cooperate on making the tooltips better?10:44
bluesabrewell, they're not going anyplace yet (code is frozen in trusty), so do what you think is best10:44
knomei'd put them in a pad, but i'm open for anything else as well.10:45
knomeoh btw,10:45
knomehmm, i take that last "btw" back.10:46
bluesabreYeah, let's work together to improve that for next time10:47
slickymasterWorkbah, I went on and translated them10:48
ochosiUnit193: ehm, so why is it breaking?10:48
slickymasterWorkbut you're right knome, they shoud be reworked/improved10:48
bluesabreworking on the xfce4-settings package now11:00
ochosigreat stuff11:00
bluesabresuppose I should push a xubuntu-icon-theme package too11:00
bluesabreor wait until closer to the next release11:01
ochosiwe can do one for beta or a week before UIF11:01
ochosii mean generally it'd be good i guess for the xfpm icons11:01
ochosibut it's not crucial11:01
brainwashbluesabre: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1105711:05
ubottubugzilla.xfce.org bug 11057 in Appearance Settings "xfce4-settings (git version) regression:the appearance can no longer be changed (bisected)" [Critical,New]11:05
ochosiwow, that sounds like fun11:06
ochosibrainwash: have you tested/confirmed that?11:06
brainwashbut 3 users follow this bug already11:07
brainwashbug report11:07
ochositwo of those are auto-added11:08
ochosiso in fact only wally added him/herself11:08
brainwashI see11:09
brainwashdoes anyone actually use our staging PPA?11:09
bluesabreI do11:09
ochosihard to tell11:09
bluesabreand have no issues with it11:09
brainwashbluesabre: did you try to reproduce the issue?11:10
ochosibut it's there for testers primarily, so it's useful either way11:10
bluesabreand it works fine11:10
ochosimaybe an arch user?11:10
bluesabreyou joke, but that's my first thought as well11:10
bluesabreanybody else using the staging ppa and able to confirm if that is an issue?11:11
brainwashnot many testers around :/11:12
bluesabreplenty of team members11:12
ochosii've been testing it as well11:13
ochosion multiple machines11:14
knomebluesabre, do you actually *understand* StartupWMClass?11:14
ochosimostly trusty so far though11:14
ochosiso yeah, i can't reproduce the problem either, all works fine11:14
knomebluesabre, and what's the real way to describe StartupNotification11:15
ochosirighty, gotta grab some lunch now11:15
knomebluesabre, in TryExec, does the menu just check if the file exist or does it run it and expect some kind of reply from it?11:16
knomebluesabre, if it just checks it, why is it important that it's an executable?11:16
bluesabreknome: StartupWMClass helps window managers/apps to know what to expect when the app is loaded11:16
bluesabreknome: StartupNotification, show a busy cursor until the app is started11:16
bluesabreknome: TryExec, dunno, lots of these things were added to the spec back when DEs sucked11:17
knomere: StartupWMClass: if you set a string in that, will it be sent, or does the app also need to support it?11:17
ochosiwow, http://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2014/08/21/new-human-interface-guidelines-for-gnome-and-gtk/11:17
knomeor is it a menu-specific thing that the menu/launcher app needs to handle?11:18
bluesabreknome, an example of that http://kb.openstudioproject.com/content/fix-double-google-chrome-icon-docky-and-plank11:18
bluesabreit's for launchers/window managers to have a better idea11:18
knomeright, so it has nothing to do with the app supporting anything?11:19
knomewhat if you set StartupNotification to true but the app doesn't support it?11:19
bluesabreknome: dunno, that's why these things are in the Advanced tab11:21
knomestartup notification is NOT11:21
bluesabreI imagine its about how its supported in xfwm, mutter, etc11:21
knomeit's in the main options..11:21
bluesabreoh right11:21
bluesabrewell, dunno11:21
bluesabresome apps define this automatically, others do not11:21
bluesabreI'd say its up to the user to kill or enable these things11:22
knomeyeah, but if you create a new launcher11:22
knomeand then set that11:22
knomewhat happens if it's not supported?11:22
bluesabreNothing different11:22
knomeis the cursor going to be "working" forever?11:22
knomeor just not ever changing to "working" ?11:22
* bluesabre shrugs11:23
knomedo you know any application that doesn't support it?11:23
knomeor is it dependent on the WM?11:23
bluesabreI think its dependent wm/app/toolkit11:24
bluesabrecatfish supports it11:24
bluesabrebut I did not add that specifically11:24
bluesabreprobably toolkits handle it so most apps get it by default11:25
bluesabreand wm is able to connect process id with x window11:25
bluesabreso yeah, its a group effort11:25
knomehttp://pad.ubuntu.com/MenuLibreTooltips should be ready for use now.11:26
bluesabrexfce4-settings pushed to utopic11:27
knomecan you push those to menulibre trunk ^ ? :P11:28
knomeyou can then upload a new version for the translation updates only for utopic.11:28
Unit193ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages copy lxpanel and xfce4-power-manager to your PPA.11:37
Unit193Oh bleh, maybe bluesabre can?11:37
Unit193bluesabre: So, Debian lxpanel has --destdir in override_dh_auto_install as the only other package is lxpanel-dbg, Ubuntu added lxpanel-indicator-plugin thus removed the override and used an *install file.  Since then, the -dev package was dropped as all it had was one header file and one pc file and the Ubuntu merge carried over this change, but failed to actually install those files anywhere.11:40
Unit193ochosi: ^11:40
brainwashUnit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/4.11.2-0ubuntu111:41
brainwashwas 02-remove-unused-maximize-button.patch applied upstream?11:41
brainwashit's a hacky patch for ubuntu, don't think that anyone approved it upstream11:43
brainwashbesides they aren't even aware of it :D11:43
ochosibrainwash: what do you mean "not even aware of it"? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1091011:44
ubottubugzilla.xfce.org bug 10910 in General "Hide unused maximize button" [Minor,New]11:44
brainwashok, so I'm not aware of my own bug report then11:45
knomewell done11:45
ochosiand yeah, afaik it wasn't applied11:45
ochosianyway, there is a load of bugreports wrt maximizing, tiling, setting correct flags etc11:45
ochosiand not really anyone in sight who knows enough about this stuff to decide which patches to apply11:46
brainwashali1234 :)11:46
ochosiand not really anyone in sight who knows enough about this stuff *and is willing* to decide which patches to apply11:46
brainwashali1234 knows best how broken xfwm is :D11:47
brainwashbut it's a dev release after all, so pushing experimental patches should be ok11:49
brainwashand no one complained about it being broken in xubuntu 14.0411:49
Unit193I've had to disable the compositor.11:50
knomei don't think it's a huge problem to have the icon either11:50
knomeit's a very small visual annoyance at most.11:50
brainwashyes, just cosmetic11:51
Unit193ochosi: So which one are you targetting?  May as well ping now before I go, re lxpanel testing.11:51
knomei never even realised that before somebody filed the bugreport11:51
knomeand i'm not the person who uses the least time looking at visual bugs ;)11:52
Unit193ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa seems to be the best place, else you'll break daily builds.11:53
ochosiUnit193: yeah, i guess you're right about that. so it's actually a packaging problem in the lxde panel?11:54
Unit193ochosi: Yes, but still wory copying to test since Sean doesn't have lxpanel under his packageset.11:55
ochosior worth?11:56
ochosiUnit193: i've sent the copy request, will take a few mins11:57
ochosithen please ping the lxde folk about testing11:57
ochosilunchtime (for real this time)11:57
Unit193Pinged their Elf y.11:57
ochosiUnit193: just out of curiosity11:58
ochosiwhat channel are those ppl hanging in?11:58
ochosii'm only in #lubuntu as there is no -devel11:58
knomethat's stupid BTW ;)11:58
knomeochosi, you should've gone (for real)11:59
ochosiand there's hardly interesting stuff going down in #lubuntu11:59
knomenow get out or i'll kick you :)11:59
Unit193knome, ochosi: Right, except a -devel wouldn't even be used anyway.11:59
knomeno developers? :P12:00
knomeat least they have plenty of people buzzing *around*12:00
knomelaguna, linx?12:01
Unit193I randomly submit a branch, and there's artwork people (more than one), but not sure about anything else.12:01
bluesabreknome: strings pushed, you'll have to wait for lp to sync12:01
Unit193(Well testers, but that's in email and -quality.)12:01
knomebluesabre, ta, will do12:01
knomeslickymasterWork, ^12:01
bluesabreGotta run, bbl12:02
knomethey seem to be horribly unorganized.12:02
knomebluesabre, have fun12:02
Unit193Eh, a little.  There's a QA list and -quality for those things, artwork is done in some voodoo fashion, but it's done as part of the artwork team, development/uploads is all basically gilir.12:03
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
slickymasterWorkgot it knome 14:00
* elfy gets pinged on Elf too ... 14:44
elfyochosi: that tbird thing is design :| 14:44
ochosithought so14:45
elfylooks pants ... 14:47
slickymasterWorkelfy, on that subject, I add the upstream bug report to https://bugs.launchpad.net/thunderbird/+bug/134730514:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1347305 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Address fields are grey when composing messages" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:56
elfyslickymasterWork: I thought about that - then thought that the chances of anyone actually doing anything were close to nothing so didn't :)14:58
slickymasterWorkelfy: it won't hurt to 'throw the clay to the wall'. Who knows it might stick ;)15:00
knomeelfy, what TB thing?15:02
knomeoh, *that* thing15:02
knomei wondered it about too, got a bit annoyed, then decided i'd learn to use it.15:02
knomenow i'm ok with it15:02
elfyknome: yea - I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something *we'd* done this morning - no I know it's not I'm happy15:06
knomeelfy, hehe15:44
elfyochosi: not sure what's going on here - screen's blanking again for no apparent reason that I can see, I've done zilch to that since the other day16:34
ochosimaybe the desktop file is back because you opened lls again? :)16:35
ochosihm, i see, that generally looks good16:35
elfyit wasn't prior to openin it16:35
ochosiwhat does "xset q | grep timeout" say?16:35
elfytimeout:  600    cycle:  60016:35
elfyI had no problems with this since I blitzed that file16:36
ochosicould you move the slider in xfpm back and forth?16:37
ochosii mean the blanking slider16:37
ochosiso that it updates its setting16:37
elfyobviously got that file back now16:37
ochosithat explains it too16:37
elfynot really 16:37
ochosii mean it doesn't explain why the file is back, but it explains the blanking16:37
ochosior why the power manager and the xserver are out of sync16:38
elfythe file is back now that I've checked - the file wasn't there prior to looking and screenshotting16:38
elfywhen it was still blanking16:38
ochosii see16:38
ochosiok, could you change the slider of "blank after" as suggested and then run xset again?16:38
elfydeleted file - sliding sliders - checking16:38
elfyand xset is now showing 0 and 0 16:39
ochosiso xfpm is working16:39
ochosinot sure what fiddles with the timeouts16:39
ochosiyou don't use xscreensaver by any chance? :)16:39
elfyI'm right in the middle of sorting food prior to CC meeting - after that I'll see if I can reproduce16:40
ochosisure, i'll be off for the rest of the evening though16:40
elfynah - no screensavers here at all16:40
elfyokey doke - I'll try and remember to give you any findings tomorrow then16:40
ochosiok, thanks16:41
elfyochosi: won't be at the next meeting I'm afraid16:53
brainwashochosi: can I or you mark bug 889394 as invalid now?19:00
ubottubug 889394 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "xscreensaver and xfce4-power-manager conflict" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88939419:00
brainwashaccording to your last comment upstream19:01
Unit193elfy: Dangit man, was trying not to needlessly.  tasksel got updated too.19:46
elfyUnit193: I guess we can move forward on that then - after beta 119:46
elfyUnit193: I guessed you'd tried not to ping me :p19:47
elfylots of guessing going on 19:47
elfygives us a week to tie up the testcases for it - or testcase if we just want to test install via one of the methods19:48
Unit193Yeah, I'd say just the one method.19:49
elfyI'd go for the tasksel method to test 19:49
Unit193Also, I believe I'm going to RSVP to not be at the meeting. :D19:55
elfyI'll be driving round in circles20:02
noskcaj-schoolUnit193: bluesabre: I was talking to gilir about the xfpm plugin, he's going to make a -dev package for next cycle. I'll try and contact lxde-debian soon23:11
Unit193noskcaj-school: I know what the problem is for this release and have a test package in xubuntu-staging.  Also contacted LStranger.23:12
noskcaj-schoolok then, i suppose i'll go back to doing school stuff23:12
Unit193You can send a note anyway though.23:13
Unit193(make sure I wasn't clear as mud and all, and you have information from gilir.)23:14
bluesabrehey guys23:40
bluesabremissed the freeze23:40
Unit193Depends if the xfpm lxde plugin counts as a bugfix.23:56

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