[01:40] <bluesabre> ochosi: secret to building with lxpanel support?
[01:40] <bluesabre> checking for optional package lxpanel >= 0.5.6... not found
[01:40] <bluesabre> lxpanel:  Installed: 0.6.2-0ubuntu1
[01:42] <bluesabre> bbl to package more stuff in the morning
[01:43] <Unit193> Alrighty, thanks.
[06:45] <elfy> Unit193: ochosi - once tasksel is  actually done I guess we can move on a bit and get the testcases up and available for people then call
[06:58] <elfy> ochosi: noticed a strange thing when writing mails in thunderbird theming wise, not sure if it's *us* or not - http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-210814-075620.php and http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-210814-075656.php
[07:26] <ochosi> morning elfy 
[07:27] <ochosi> hm, thunderbird isn't really gtk, so not much i can do abuot that
[07:27] <elfy> morning boss 
[07:27] <ochosi> which part looks off to you exactly?
[07:27] <elfy> I did wonder, but thought I'd mention it
[07:27] <ochosi> sure, anytime
[07:27] <ochosi> these things are important, i don't see everything :)
[07:27] <ochosi> (and for instance thunderbird i don't use)
[07:28] <ochosi> bluesabre: i'll ask eric, i really have never tried to build with lxde support
[07:28] <elfy> have a look in the second screeny - below the tool bar - it's *sunk* 
[07:29] <ochosi> you mean the textarea for the email?
[07:29] <ochosi> or the formatting toolbar
[07:29] <ochosi> or the weird lines for the addressees
[07:30] <elfy> the weird lines is what made me look - but it's almost like from the toolbar down is all at a different level 
[07:31] <ochosi> right, no, i guess that's a thunderbird "style feature" :)
[07:31] <elfy> but if it's nothing to do with us - that's fine, I'll fiddle about with it and see what I can find
[07:31] <elfy> ochosi: then it's a new feature :p
[07:31] <ochosi> i guess it is, yeah
[07:32] <elfy> I'll see if others are seeing it in non-Xubuntu
[07:33] <ochosi> good idea
[08:38] <brainwash> elfy, ochosi: bug 1347305
[08:38] <brainwash> also noticed that the monochrome icons are gone in thunderbird
[08:38] <brainwash> that's bug 1347124
[08:38] <brainwash> ^ won't fix :/
[08:42] <elfy> brainwash: thanks - but odd why it's just appeared here
[08:42] <elfy> aaah I guess v31
[09:15] <knome> slickymasterWork, (how) have you translated "ThisEntry" (?)
[09:16] <Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=745509
[09:18] <slickymasterWork> knome, where is that one, in MenuLibre?
[09:19] <knome> yep
[09:19] <slickymasterWork> give me a second
[09:21] <knome> i'm mostly wondering if it should be a translation at all, or if i should keep it as is
[09:21] <knome> i mean, whether it's a known technical term for something
[09:22] <slickymasterWork> sorry knome, something came up here at work
[09:22] <knome> Copy text 	
[09:22] <knome> "Hidden": Hidden should have been called Deleted. It means the user deleted
[09:22] <knome> (at his level) something that was present (at an upper level, e.g. in the
[09:22] <knome> system dirs). It's strictly equivalent to the .desktop file not existing at
[09:22] <knome> all, as far as that user is concerned. This can also be used to "uninstall"
[09:22] <knome> existing files (e.g. due to a renaming) - by letting make install install a
[09:22] <knome> file with Hidden=true in it.
[09:22] <knome> bluesabre, ^
[09:22] <knome> bluesabre, i don't think that description is something that the *user* needs/wants to read in menulibre
[09:22] <knome> slickymasterWork, no problem
[09:23] <knome> bluesabre, thinking same of some of the other tooltips too.
[09:23] <slickymasterWork> I haven't. And that's not the only one, there's also the tags "NoDisplay", "StartupNotify", "TryExec" that I think shouldn't be translated
[09:23] <knome> yep.
[09:24] <knome> those are the tooltips
[09:24] <slickymasterWork> I was thinking in maintaining them as they are, but I noticed that the french translation opt to translate them
[09:25] <knome> ThisEntry?
[09:25] <knome> the tags in "Quotes" should actually not be translated..
[09:25] <knome> because they are the technical tags in the .desktop files
[09:26] <knome> so if you understand .desktop-files on a raw level, translating them just confuses you (more)
[09:26] <slickymasterWork> actually I was just referring to "NoDisplay", "StartupNotify", didn't saw if they translate ThisEntry
[09:26] <knome> i was referring to those you were referring
[09:26] <knome> i actually think bluesabre should fix the translation template.
[09:26] <slickymasterWork> lol, we're speaking about the same thing, tehn :9
[09:27] <slickymasterWork> hm hm, agree
[09:27] <knome> and as i said, some of those tooltips go on a way too specific, technical level
[09:27] <knome> like the "hidden" tooltip
[09:27] <knome> ^ as posted aboe
[09:27] <slickymasterWork> exactly
[09:27] <knome> *above
[09:27] <knome> it could simply be:
[09:28] <knome> "The field is stricly equivalent to the .desktop file not existing at all, as far as the user is concerned."
[09:28] <knome> or, "It's ..."
[09:29] <slickymasterWork> that's my opinion also. And besides tooltips are ment too be descriptive, not technical 
[09:32] <bluesabre> knome, slickymasterWork: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html
[09:35] <slickymasterWork> bluesabre, but isn't that the template from which to work, thus not meaning it should be transferred verbatim to every application?
[09:36] <knome> bluesabre, i've looke at that page, but i don't think it's a good idea to copy it word-to-word
[09:36] <slickymasterWork> shouldn't it be considered like a master script guideline?
[09:36] <bluesabre> yes
[09:36] <bluesabre> stop writing the same thing, guys
[09:36]  * slickymasterWork views it like knome 
[09:36] <bluesabre> :)
[09:36] <knome> bluesabre, also, since the tags that shouldn't be translated are at the beginning of the line, you could simply leave them out
[09:37] <bluesabre> I know, I know
[09:37] <knome> bluesabre, i mean, even the english version shouldn't be exactly the same as in the docs
[09:37] <slickymasterWork> yes
[09:37] <bluesabre> I wanted to fix it, can't really fix it while on the 2.0.x series, has to be with the next release
[09:38] <bluesabre> I'd be just as happy to drop the tooltips entirely
[09:39] <ochosi> oh hey bluesabre 
[09:39] <ochosi> early morning
[09:39] <slickymasterWork> hey ochosi 
[09:39] <ochosi> morning slickymasterWork 
[09:43] <bluesabre> but yeah, haven't worked on menulibre-next yet... spent most of this cycle maintaining 2.0 for trusty/utopic
[09:43] <Unit193> Hrm, we getting xfpm 1.3.2?
[09:44] <bluesabre> yeah, I can push it at any time
[09:44] <bluesabre> ochosi, let me know if you figure out the lxpanel building
[09:44] <bluesabre> I'm sure the lubuntu folks would be appreciative
[09:44] <bluesabre> :)
[09:44] <Unit193> Aha, that's what it's pending on.
[09:45] <bluesabre> but yeah, I'll push what I have before heading to work this morning
[09:48] <slickymasterWork> damn LP timeouts
[09:51] <ochosi> bluesabre: what's the plan with the display dialog?
[09:51] <bluesabre> :\ was really hoping nick would appear
[09:51] <ochosi> well just man up and do the release
[09:52] <ochosi> ;)
[09:52] <ochosi> after all, it's just a dev release
[10:07] <bluesabre> pushed xfpm and xds updates
[10:07] <ochosi> sweet
[10:07] <ochosi> fwiw, i've gotten in touch with gilir (via email) a longer while ago about the lubuntu plugin – and we also asked him for some input/feedback/testing, but nothing ever came of it
[10:12] <Unit193> @ubuntu.com?  He tends to run rather busy.  As far as testing, it'd have to be built but I know who to poke.
[10:12] <meetingology> Unit193: Error: "ubuntu.com?" is not a valid command.
[10:16] <ochosi> Unit193: well he did initially reply, so he surely knows about it ;)
[10:16] <ochosi> he just never gave concrete feedback or tested it
[10:16] <ochosi> but if you know who to poke, please do so!
[10:17] <Unit193> Only in terms of testing, like poking the Elf here it won't help with building it properly.
[10:25] <ochosi> right, then i misunderstood you
[10:25] <ochosi> i assumed you knew who to poke for building
[10:26] <Unit193> gilir.
[10:26] <ochosi> Unit193: wanna poke cjwatson again for tasksel?
[10:27] <ochosi> right, i can send him another email after sean has uploaded the 1.3.2 package
[10:31] <Unit193> I could PPA the lxpanel plugin, but that's about it.
[10:32] <ochosi> well that's something
[10:37] <Unit193> Annnd, I'm out.
[10:41] <Unit193> Ahahaha, I see why it's breaking. :D
[10:42] <Unit193> Shoot, I was supposed to go out.
[10:43] <knome> "out"? what's that?
[10:43] <knome> bluesabre, what do you recommend doing with the tooltips with 2.0.x then?
[10:44] <knome> bluesabre, tbh, i'm considering just untranslating all/most of them for now until we actually have better versions of the instructions
[10:44] <knome> bluesabre, and, how do you want to cooperate on making the tooltips better?
[10:44] <bluesabre> well, they're not going anyplace yet (code is frozen in trusty), so do what you think is best
[10:45] <knome> i'd put them in a pad, but i'm open for anything else as well.
[10:45] <knome> oh btw,
[10:46] <knome> hmm, i take that last "btw" back.
[10:47] <bluesabre> Yeah, let's work together to improve that for next time
[10:47] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/MenuLibreTooltips
[10:48] <slickymasterWork> bah, I went on and translated them
[10:48] <ochosi> Unit193: ehm, so why is it breaking?
[10:48] <slickymasterWork> but you're right knome, they shoud be reworked/improved
[11:00] <bluesabre> working on the xfce4-settings package now
[11:00] <ochosi> great stuff
[11:00] <bluesabre> suppose I should push a xubuntu-icon-theme package too
[11:01] <bluesabre> or wait until closer to the next release
[11:01] <bluesabre> *beta
[11:01] <ochosi> we can do one for beta or a week before UIF
[11:01] <ochosi> i mean generally it'd be good i guess for the xfpm icons
[11:01] <ochosi> but it's not crucial
[11:01] <bluesabre> yeah
[11:05] <brainwash> bluesabre: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11057
[11:06] <ochosi> wow, that sounds like fun
[11:06] <ochosi> brainwash: have you tested/confirmed that?
[11:06] <brainwash> no
[11:07] <brainwash> but 3 users follow this bug already
[11:07] <brainwash> bug report
[11:08] <ochosi> two of those are auto-added
[11:08] <ochosi> so in fact only wally added him/herself
[11:09] <brainwash> I see
[11:09] <brainwash> does anyone actually use our staging PPA?
[11:09] <bluesabre> I do
[11:09] <ochosi> hard to tell
[11:09] <bluesabre> and have no issues with it
[11:10] <brainwash> bluesabre: did you try to reproduce the issue?
[11:10] <ochosi> but it's there for testers primarily, so it's useful either way
[11:10] <bluesabre> yes
[11:10] <bluesabre> and it works fine
[11:10] <ochosi> maybe an arch user?
[11:10] <ochosi> :}
[11:10] <brainwash> :D
[11:10] <bluesabre> you joke, but that's my first thought as well
[11:10] <knome> ;]
[11:11] <bluesabre> anybody else using the staging ppa and able to confirm if that is an issue?
[11:12] <brainwash> not many testers around :/
[11:12] <bluesabre> plenty of team members
[11:13] <ochosi> i've been testing it as well
[11:14] <ochosi> on multiple machines
[11:14] <knome> bluesabre, do you actually *understand* StartupWMClass?
[11:14] <ochosi> mostly trusty so far though
[11:14] <ochosi> so yeah, i can't reproduce the problem either, all works fine
[11:15] <knome> bluesabre, and what's the real way to describe StartupNotification
[11:15] <ochosi> righty, gotta grab some lunch now
[11:15] <ochosi> bbl
[11:16] <knome> bluesabre, in TryExec, does the menu just check if the file exist or does it run it and expect some kind of reply from it?
[11:16] <knome> bluesabre, if it just checks it, why is it important that it's an executable?
[11:16] <bluesabre> knome: StartupWMClass helps window managers/apps to know what to expect when the app is loaded
[11:16] <bluesabre> knome: StartupNotification, show a busy cursor until the app is started
[11:16] <knome> ah
[11:17] <bluesabre> knome: TryExec, dunno, lots of these things were added to the spec back when DEs sucked
[11:17] <knome> re: StartupWMClass: if you set a string in that, will it be sent, or does the app also need to support it?
[11:17] <ochosi> wow, http://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2014/08/21/new-human-interface-guidelines-for-gnome-and-gtk/
[11:18] <knome> or is it a menu-specific thing that the menu/launcher app needs to handle?
[11:18] <bluesabre> knome, an example of that http://kb.openstudioproject.com/content/fix-double-google-chrome-icon-docky-and-plank
[11:18] <bluesabre> it's for launchers/window managers to have a better idea
[11:19] <knome> right, so it has nothing to do with the app supporting anything?
[11:19] <knome> what if you set StartupNotification to true but the app doesn't support it?
[11:21] <bluesabre> knome: dunno, that's why these things are in the Advanced tab
[11:21] <knome> lol
[11:21] <knome> startup notification is NOT
[11:21] <bluesabre> I imagine its about how its supported in xfwm, mutter, etc
[11:21] <knome> it's in the main options..
[11:21] <bluesabre> oh right
[11:21] <bluesabre> well, dunno
[11:21] <bluesabre> some apps define this automatically, others do not
[11:22] <bluesabre> I'd say its up to the user to kill or enable these things
[11:22] <knome> yeah, but if you create a new launcher
[11:22] <knome> and then set that
[11:22] <knome> what happens if it's not supported?
[11:22] <bluesabre> Nothing different
[11:22] <knome> is the cursor going to be "working" forever?
[11:22] <knome> or just not ever changing to "working" ?
[11:23]  * bluesabre shrugs
[11:23] <knome> do you know any application that doesn't support it?
[11:23] <knome> or is it dependent on the WM?
[11:24] <bluesabre> I think its dependent wm/app/toolkit
[11:24] <bluesabre> catfish supports it
[11:24] <bluesabre> but I did not add that specifically
[11:24] <knome> right
[11:25] <bluesabre> probably toolkits handle it so most apps get it by default
[11:25] <bluesabre> and wm is able to connect process id with x window
[11:25] <bluesabre> so yeah, its a group effort
[11:25] <knome> right
[11:26] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/MenuLibreTooltips should be ready for use now.
[11:27] <bluesabre> xfce4-settings pushed to utopic
[11:28] <knome> can you push those to menulibre trunk ^ ? :P
[11:28] <knome> you can then upload a new version for the translation updates only for utopic.
[11:37] <Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages copy lxpanel and xfce4-power-manager to your PPA.
[11:37] <Unit193> Oh bleh, maybe bluesabre can?
[11:40] <Unit193> bluesabre: So, Debian lxpanel has --destdir in override_dh_auto_install as the only other package is lxpanel-dbg, Ubuntu added lxpanel-indicator-plugin thus removed the override and used an *install file.  Since then, the -dev package was dropped as all it had was one header file and one pc file and the Ubuntu merge carried over this change, but failed to actually install those files anywhere.
[11:40] <Unit193> ochosi: ^
[11:41] <brainwash> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/4.11.2-0ubuntu1
[11:41] <brainwash> was 02-remove-unused-maximize-button.patch applied upstream?
[11:43] <brainwash> it's a hacky patch for ubuntu, don't think that anyone approved it upstream
[11:43] <brainwash> besides they aren't even aware of it :D
[11:44] <ochosi> brainwash: what do you mean "not even aware of it"? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10910
[11:45] <brainwash> ok, so I'm not aware of my own bug report then
[11:45] <knome> hah.
[11:45] <knome> well done
[11:45] <ochosi> and yeah, afaik it wasn't applied
[11:45] <ochosi> anyway, there is a load of bugreports wrt maximizing, tiling, setting correct flags etc
[11:46] <ochosi> and not really anyone in sight who knows enough about this stuff to decide which patches to apply
[11:46] <brainwash> ali1234 :)
[11:46] <ochosi> and not really anyone in sight who knows enough about this stuff *and is willing* to decide which patches to apply
[11:47] <brainwash> ali1234 knows best how broken xfwm is :D
[11:49] <brainwash> but it's a dev release after all, so pushing experimental patches should be ok
[11:49] <brainwash> and no one complained about it being broken in xubuntu 14.04
[11:50] <Unit193> I've had to disable the compositor.
[11:50] <knome> i don't think it's a huge problem to have the icon either
[11:50] <knome> it's a very small visual annoyance at most.
[11:51] <brainwash> yes, just cosmetic
[11:51] <Unit193> ochosi: So which one are you targetting?  May as well ping now before I go, re lxpanel testing.
[11:51] <knome> i never even realised that before somebody filed the bugreport
[11:52] <knome> and i'm not the person who uses the least time looking at visual bugs ;)
[11:53] <Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa seems to be the best place, else you'll break daily builds.
[11:54] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i guess you're right about that. so it's actually a packaging problem in the lxde panel?
[11:55] <Unit193> ochosi: Yes, but still wory copying to test since Sean doesn't have lxpanel under his packageset.
[11:55] <ochosi> wory?
[11:56] <Unit193> Worth.
[11:56] <ochosi> or worth?
[11:56] <ochosi> ah
[11:56] <ochosi> :)
[11:57] <ochosi> Unit193: i've sent the copy request, will take a few mins
[11:57] <ochosi> then please ping the lxde folk about testing
[11:57] <ochosi> lunchtime (for real this time)
[11:57] <ochosi> bbl
[11:57] <Unit193> Pinged their Elf y.
[11:58] <ochosi> Unit193: just out of curiosity
[11:58] <ochosi> what channel are those ppl hanging in?
[11:58] <ochosi> i'm only in #lubuntu as there is no -devel
[11:58] <knome> that's stupid BTW ;)
[11:59] <knome> ochosi, you should've gone (for real)
[11:59] <ochosi> and there's hardly interesting stuff going down in #lubuntu
[11:59] <knome> now get out or i'll kick you :)
[11:59] <ochosi> hehe
[11:59] <Unit193> knome, ochosi: Right, except a -devel wouldn't even be used anyway.
[12:00] <knome> no developers? :P
[12:00] <Unit193> gilir.
[12:00] <knome> at least they have plenty of people buzzing *around*
[12:01] <knome> laguna, linx?
[12:01] <Unit193> I randomly submit a branch, and there's artwork people (more than one), but not sure about anything else.
[12:01] <bluesabre> knome: strings pushed, you'll have to wait for lp to sync
[12:01] <Unit193> (Well testers, but that's in email and -quality.)
[12:01] <knome> bluesabre, ta, will do
[12:01] <knome> slickymasterWork, ^
[12:02] <bluesabre> Gotta run, bbl
[12:02] <knome> they seem to be horribly unorganized.
[12:02] <knome> bluesabre, have fun
[12:03] <Unit193> Eh, a little.  There's a QA list and -quality for those things, artwork is done in some voodoo fashion, but it's done as part of the artwork team, development/uploads is all basically gilir.
[14:00] <slickymasterWork> got it knome 
[14:44]  * elfy gets pinged on Elf too ... 
[14:44] <elfy> ochosi: that tbird thing is design :| 
[14:45] <ochosi> thought so
[14:47] <elfy> looks pants ... 
[14:56] <slickymasterWork> elfy, on that subject, I add the upstream bug report to https://bugs.launchpad.net/thunderbird/+bug/1347305
[14:58] <elfy> slickymasterWork: I thought about that - then thought that the chances of anyone actually doing anything were close to nothing so didn't :)
[15:00] <slickymasterWork> elfy: it won't hurt to 'throw the clay to the wall'. Who knows it might stick ;)
[15:00] <elfy> :)
[15:02] <knome> elfy, what TB thing?
[15:02] <knome> oh, *that* thing
[15:02] <knome> i wondered it about too, got a bit annoyed, then decided i'd learn to use it.
[15:02] <knome> now i'm ok with it
[15:06] <elfy> knome: yea - I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something *we'd* done this morning - no I know it's not I'm happy
[15:44] <knome> elfy, hehe
[16:34] <elfy> ochosi: not sure what's going on here - screen's blanking again for no apparent reason that I can see, I've done zilch to that since the other day
[16:35] <elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-210814-173447.php
[16:35] <ochosi> maybe the desktop file is back because you opened lls again? :)
[16:35] <ochosi> hm, i see, that generally looks good
[16:35] <elfy> it wasn't prior to openin it
[16:35] <ochosi> what does "xset q | grep timeout" say?
[16:35] <elfy> timeout:  600    cycle:  600
[16:36] <elfy> I had no problems with this since I blitzed that file
[16:37] <ochosi> could you move the slider in xfpm back and forth?
[16:37] <ochosi> i mean the blanking slider
[16:37] <ochosi> so that it updates its setting
[16:37] <elfy> obviously got that file back now
[16:37] <ochosi> ah
[16:37] <ochosi> hm
[16:37] <ochosi> that explains it too
[16:37] <elfy> not really 
[16:37] <ochosi> i mean it doesn't explain why the file is back, but it explains the blanking
[16:38] <ochosi> or why the power manager and the xserver are out of sync
[16:38] <elfy> the file is back now that I've checked - the file wasn't there prior to looking and screenshotting
[16:38] <elfy> when it was still blanking
[16:38] <ochosi> i see
[16:38] <ochosi> ok, could you change the slider of "blank after" as suggested and then run xset again?
[16:38] <elfy> deleted file - sliding sliders - checking
[16:39] <elfy> and xset is now showing 0 and 0 
[16:39] <ochosi> mkay
[16:39] <elfy> mmm
[16:39] <ochosi> so xfpm is working
[16:39] <ochosi> not sure what fiddles with the timeouts
[16:39] <ochosi> you don't use xscreensaver by any chance? :)
[16:40] <elfy> I'm right in the middle of sorting food prior to CC meeting - after that I'll see if I can reproduce
[16:40] <ochosi> sure, i'll be off for the rest of the evening though
[16:40] <elfy> nah - no screensavers here at all
[16:40] <elfy> okey doke - I'll try and remember to give you any findings tomorrow then
[16:41] <ochosi> ok, thanks
[16:53] <elfy> ochosi: won't be at the next meeting I'm afraid
[19:00] <brainwash> ochosi: can I or you mark bug 889394 as invalid now?
[19:01] <brainwash> according to your last comment upstream
[19:46] <Unit193> elfy: Dangit man, was trying not to needlessly.  tasksel got updated too.
[19:46] <elfy> woot
[19:46] <elfy> Unit193: I guess we can move forward on that then - after beta 1
[19:47] <elfy> Unit193: I guessed you'd tried not to ping me :p
[19:47] <elfy> lots of guessing going on 
[19:48] <elfy> gives us a week to tie up the testcases for it - or testcase if we just want to test install via one of the methods
[19:49] <Unit193> Yeah, I'd say just the one method.
[19:49] <elfy> I'd go for the tasksel method to test 
[19:55] <Unit193> Also, I believe I'm going to RSVP to not be at the meeting. :D
[20:02] <elfy> I'll be driving round in circles
[23:11] <noskcaj-school> Unit193: bluesabre: I was talking to gilir about the xfpm plugin, he's going to make a -dev package for next cycle. I'll try and contact lxde-debian soon
[23:12] <Unit193> noskcaj-school: I know what the problem is for this release and have a test package in xubuntu-staging.  Also contacted LStranger.
[23:12] <noskcaj-school> ok then, i suppose i'll go back to doing school stuff
[23:13] <Unit193> You can send a note anyway though.
[23:14] <Unit193> (make sure I wasn't clear as mud and all, and you have information from gilir.)
[23:40] <bluesabre> hey guys
[23:40] <bluesabre> missed the freeze
[23:56] <Unit193> Depends if the xfpm lxde plugin counts as a bugfix.