[09:22] <k1l_> @mark #ubuntu dragos was again there to start something
[09:30] <kcj> May want to pay attention to #ubuntu-offtopic. Spidey senses, tingling and whatnot.
 How can I use Ubuntu?
[17:36] <bazhang> serious known issue
[17:36] <bazhang> aka maro marano
[17:37] <k1l_> bazhang: your troll detector is working excellent
[17:38] <IdleOne> problem solved!
[17:38] <bazhang> k1l_, that, and banning him thrice in two days
[17:38] <IdleOne> k1l_: is THE BEST HELPER :)
[17:38]  * phunyguy takes the beer away from IdleOne
[17:38] <genii> bazhang: Were they doing that before,  putting !ops before anything they asked?
[17:38] <phunyguy> tee many martoonies
[17:39] <IdleOne> think yoo ossifer
[17:39] <bazhang> yano got into it! w00t
[17:39] <yano> hm?
[17:39] <IdleOne>  ops and staff for one troll
[17:39] <bazhang> tabfail, but in it!
[17:39] <IdleOne> 4
[17:40] <IdleOne> almost seems like we care
[17:40] <bazhang> genii, mostly super creepy PM ing then onjoin stalking
[17:40] <genii> Hm.
[17:40] <DJones> Given the last quit in #f k1l_ Maybe set the ban for about 120 years
[17:42] <IdleOne> I've set a couple bans for 10000 days
[17:42] <k1l_> some deserve a lifetime internet ban, tbh
[17:43] <bazhang> stardate bans
[17:43] <k1l_> but that is out of the sope of this team, i think :)
[17:43] <DJones> Yeah, but no need to mention ops names in the contect of lifetime bans :)
[18:02] <marvin-hh> ikonia banned me apparently without any discussion.
[18:03] <marvin-hh> I already explained that I don't want to spend time discussing anything with ikonia.
[18:03] <bazhang> marvin-hh, thats not the case
[18:03] <bazhang> ikoni a was not the one to ban you
[18:04] <marvin-hh> bazhang: I have seen him/her ban me from at least one of the channels.
[18:04] <bazhang> marvin-hh, I am referring to #ubuntu
[18:04] <marvin-hh> bazhang: as such, it is most definitely true. It might be that for #ubuntu it was someone else.
[18:05] <bazhang> marvin-hh, I PMd you earlier without any response
[18:06] <bazhang> marvin-hh, did you wish to resolve any of your outstanding bans?
[18:08] <marvin-hh> bazhang: I have not received anything. As you might be well aware of, my complete system was broken after an upgrade.
[18:09] <marvin-hh> bazhang: the list of issues I encountered was virtually endless.
[18:09] <marvin-hh> bazhang: I now have a reduced setup working.
[18:10] <bazhang> marvin-hh, as such, this channel is to resolve existing channel quiets/bans and related; did you wish to address those, as you are here now
[18:10] <marvin-hh> bazhang: sure
[18:14] <marvin-hh> bazhang: what are you waiting for?
[18:14] <bazhang> marvin-hh, you understand the reason for #ubuntu and other support only channels; that they are very busy and as such, #ubuntu-offtopic (as well as other flavor-offtopic) channels exist for non support
[18:15] <marvin-hh> bazhang: the problem seems to originate from the fact that I believe the apt-get question falls under support, and you apparently don't.
[18:15] <marvin-hh> bazhang: perhaps #ubuntu-devel is a better platform for that discussion or just e-mailing the author of apt-get directly.
[18:16] <bazhang> marvin-hh, could be
[18:16] <marvin-hh> bazhang: anyway, I would like to hear from you that the apt-get question most definitely does not fall under support and where it does fall.
[18:16] <bazhang> that would be a debain dev
[18:18] <marvin-hh> bazhang: ok, in the world where I operate distributors are responsible for what they distribute. Apparently, you don't consider that to be the case for even core packages in Ubuntu. That's news for me.
[18:18] <bazhang> marvin-hh, I think the level of precision you are seeking makes your issue/question more of a mailing list type issue, and not something a live IRC channel sees often, if ever
[18:18] <marvin-hh> bazhang: the scope of this 'support' via IRC seems to be vanishingly small then.
[18:19] <marvin-hh> bazhang: in #debian, years ago these kinds of discussions and deep technical debugging sessions were normal.
[18:19] <bazhang> marvin-hh, a great deal of patience is required on IRC
[18:19] <bazhang> "years ago" indeed
[18:24] <marvin-hh> bazhang: it starts to look like a first line support channel where there is no second or third line to escalate issues to.
[18:24] <marvin-hh> bazhang: alternatively, a tool for marketing.
[18:24] <marvin-hh> You do advertise #ubuntu as a place to get help.
[18:24] <marvin-hh> You don't advertise it as a place to get help for the simplest of problems.
[18:24] <marvin-hh> Misrepresentation.
[18:25] <bazhang> marvin-hh, I think the level of expertise, timeliness etc from volunteers is not what you are looking for
[18:25] <marvin-hh> I don't like people or organisations who do that.
[18:25] <bazhang> so be it
[18:25] <marvin-hh> bazhang: is there a description somewhere of where #ubuntu stops with 'support'? I seem to be having a quite clear image of it now.
[18:26] <bazhang> marvin-hh, you have made up your mind. I dare not try to sway you.
[18:26] <marvin-hh> The way you phrase it is also a bit like 'the first try is free' from drug dealers.
[18:27] <bazhang> marvin-hh, I have tried , in good faith, to help you now
[18:27] <marvin-hh> Additionally, it seems that too deep discussions between two parties in #ubuntu are being killed because they might be a threat to the business model of Canonical.
[18:27] <bazhang> who knows
[18:29] <bazhang> marvin-hh, you should get in touch with the apt-get maintainer/mailing lists for the precision you seek in answers/support
[18:30] <marvin-hh> bazhang: yes, and I suppose I should less often ask anything in #ubuntu, indeed, because the required expertise is either not there or there is no willingness to help with complex issues or because I can do it faster myself.
[18:31] <marvin-hh> bazhang: did #debian also change in this way?
[18:31] <bazhang> plus the fact that you are still banned there
[18:31] <bazhang> marvin-hh, no idea, #debian has their own mods/ops/what have you
[18:34] <bazhang> marvin-hh, I have some pressing issues to attend to, so please exit the channel as our discussion is at an end
[18:35] <marvin-hh> bazhang: I am still banned.
[18:35] <bazhang> marvin-hh, correct
[18:35] <marvin-hh> bazhang: why would that be?
[18:35] <bazhang> marvin-hh, your behavior is/was not acceptable in the channel
[18:35] <marvin-hh> bazhang: did I discover your little scheme?
[18:36] <marvin-hh> bazhang: what bahaviour would that be?
[18:36] <marvin-hh> bazhang: I merely pointed out to everyone who replied that they are not able of answering a simple query.
[18:36] <bazhang> marvin-hh, the very over aggressive/ accusatory one of now
[18:36] <marvin-hh> bazhang: all of that is factually correct.
[18:36] <bazhang> +ly
[18:36] <marvin-hh> bazhang: I am not threatening to do them any harm.
[18:37] <marvin-hh> bazhang: as such, your claims are false.
[18:37] <bazhang> marvin-hh, nonetheless, the bans remain
[18:37] <marvin-hh> bazhang: nonetheless, you are incapable of arguing your point and just decide that you are the Great Leader Of the Ubuntus.
[18:37] <marvin-hh> bazhang: that sort of thing must give you a great sense of pride.
[18:38] <marvin-hh> bazhang: I bet you tell that to all the ladies about how you rule from your basement.
[18:38] <bazhang> marvin-hh, please dont idle here, the bans stand, and our discussion is at an end
[18:38] <marvin-hh> bazhang: there is no interest for me to lift my finger to leave.
[18:39] <bazhang> ooookay
[18:39] <marvin-hh> bazhang: just like the Jews didn't leave; they were just slaughtered, just like you are going to do with me.
[18:39] <marvin-hh> bazhang: you are just abusing power.
[18:39] <marvin-hh> bazhang: you lack the arguments, so you just do.
[18:39] <marvin-hh> bazhang: like a nazi.
[18:40] <marvin-hh> bazhang: Might makes right.
[18:40] <marvin-hh> I already know what your next move is.
[18:41] <marvin-hh> You will let someone else kick me out of here.
[18:41] <bazhang> please exit the channel, thanks.
[18:41] <marvin-hh> That's never going to happen voluntarily.
[18:43] <IdleOne> Welcome to my world.
[18:43] <bazhang> how so
[18:44] <IdleOne> I rule it with an iron boot
[19:36] <ikonia> sorry after racist comments on jews/nazi - which he has made multiple times I'd like to suggest he be put on a ban across the name space with zero discussion
[19:36] <ikonia> I am fed up of seeing him make jew/nazi comments as a response to every discussion
[19:36] <ikonia> and I do not wish to see any more discussion or negotiation with him
[19:36] <bazhang> he wants ubuntu to be removed from freenode
[19:37] <ikonia> let him deal with that
[19:37] <ikonia> I don't want to see him in any of the ubuntu channels
[19:37] <ikonia> nor do I wish to see him being in a position to discuss this any more
[19:37] <ikonia> enough with this guy
[19:38] <Pricey> bazhang: Is he active elsewhere?
[19:38] <ikonia> he's been active in a few non-ubuntu channels
[19:39] <ikonia> he appears to be removed and banned now from all ubuntu channels he's used in the past
[19:39] <bazhang> Pricey, #ubuntu-devel , #debain , ##linux , ##hardware , last I checked
[19:39] <Pricey> bazhang: Now?
[19:39] <ikonia> he's gone and banned from #ubuntu-devel now
[19:39] <bazhang> his level of badness may have changed that
[19:39] <ikonia> ##linux ##hardware ##security
[22:57] <valorie> thank you for banning that person
[22:57] <valorie> he was Not Fun in any way