[01:06] Unit193: I'd say, do xfce4-panel | lxpanel [01:07] the package is useless otherwise [01:09] Sounds fine to me, then. Versioned of course, just like the configure script is. [01:19] can haz b1 image candidate soon [01:26] How many hours until meeting? [01:26] Crap, xfce4-panel (>= 4.11), xfce4-panel (<< 4.13) is added by debhelper. bluesabre: For sure punting to you. :P [01:27] cripes [01:27] crepes? [01:34] Yeeep. [01:40] bluesabre: I confirmed it shows up in the panel (more or less) in a VM, good enough to go? [01:41] Sounds good to me [01:41] OK, I'll file the lxpanel side of things to take some off you at least. [01:42] skellat: 8 I think [01:45] Unit193: great, thanks [01:51] Unit193: but right, I do not have pkg-xfce [01:51] Noskcaj: ^ [01:56] Bug #1361459 [01:56] bug 1361459 in lxpanel (Ubuntu) "lxpanel is missing the development files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1361459 [02:04] Unit193: lxpanel or lxpanel-dev? [02:05] bluesabre: There is no lxpanel-dev yet, and my proposed patch does not create one. [02:05] alrighty [02:05] Velociraptor might get one though. [02:06] we'll cross that bridge when we HOLY CRAP DINOSAURS [02:06] :) [02:07] :D [02:11] Unit193: pulling your apt-offline now [02:11] Thanks! [02:26] Unit193: and just because I don't fully understand the issue, assuming this fixes it? [02:28] bluesabre: The version in archive makes a call to apt with a flag that doesn't exist anymore. Unit193's version cherrypicks the upstream fix that avoids the now non-existent flag to apt. [02:28] excellent, thanks for the explanation skellat [02:28] bluesabre: I did extensive testing since the line offset was so far, it works. [02:28] thanks guys [02:28] bluesabre: http://sigma.unit193.net/source/apt-offline_1.3.1ubuntu1.debdiff if that helps, I uploaded it last night too. [02:28] Sure thing, doc. [02:29] ok, pushing now [02:30] Unit193, bluesabre: After the updated version marinates a couple days I'll probably have to get started with the SRU paperwork to get that to go back to 14.04 [02:31] sounds good [02:31] What he said, I wasn't planning on SRU'ing, so thanks. [02:33] you guys have anything to add to the meeting agenda for tomorrow? [02:33] I'll add something after the wiki times out a few times and I am logged in [02:36] Looks short. [02:42] We have the gksu discussion [02:42] We get to discuss how verily borken gksu is [02:42] That'll be fun... [02:42] Meh, it's not that broken. [02:43] Unit193: Debian's got some "fun" bugs with it: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=gksu [02:44] thankfully most of our discussion is "we removed that things ages ago, and now we have pkexec policies, yay!" [02:45] Which is EXCELLENT! [02:45] Meh, still not helpful, but I'm on the "losing side" anyway. [02:46] This is scary: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gksu/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0 [03:18] bluesabre: BTW, for future uploads, dsc is fine? You want both a dsc and debdiff? Just debdiff? [03:26] Unit193: dsc is fine, I usually debdiff anyway [06:20] skellat: I'm pleased you're so happy that gksu is gone - perhaps team should have spent more time in the last 2 years dealing with the fact it's gone AND the fact that team left users with no option but to reinstall it as no-one bothered with actually dealing with pkexec - excellent [06:24] pkexec feels like a bandaid and we've fixed packages we ship, but that's it. The "fix" is not even as useful as what it's fixing, seems like it'd be like switching to wayland now, too early and undercooked. [06:25] yep I agree [06:26] nto quite sure why we're just following ubuntu along to be honest [06:27] Using pkexec: "gtk.GtkWarning: could not open display" and a crash dialog, "Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:" but at least no crash dialog this time! Yeah, if that's the case may as well use Mir too. [06:28] But anyway, Ubuntu (or Xubuntu) changes things, I revert them. Nothing new really and means I can actually launch applications. [06:29] yep - I use gksu here [06:29] and will continue to tell people to install it [06:29] Mhmm. [06:31] Want a fun game? [06:31] !find /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.ubuntu.pkexec utopic [06:31] File /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.ubuntu.pkexec found in gparted, gufw, synaptic, xubuntu-default-settings [06:31] Tadaaa! [06:32] apt-cache rdepends gksu | wc -l: 42 [06:36] I guess for pkexec to be any real use it should be able to work like gksu does - for anything that someone wants [06:36] I've lost interest now [06:36] OK, sounds fine to me. [08:59] brainwash, there won't be a xubuntu 12.04.5, we didn't participate (no HWE, no new worthy enough stuff from us) [08:59] but there are daily build for it [08:59] builds [09:00] ok, people should switch to 14.04 anyway :) === yofel_ is now known as yofel [09:05] can't see any daily builds in the ISO tracker; if there are other, they are probably built automatically [09:09] so it's just the usual daily build [09:09] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily-live/current/ [09:09] labeled "Xubuntu 12.04.5 LTS" [09:11] yep [09:24] morning everyone [09:25] hello slickymasterWork [09:25] hi knome :) [09:25] still flooded with work? [09:25] a bit less, but still a bit :) [09:25] and waiting for the next wave [09:26] waiting for waves is cool [09:26] * slickymasterWork does it a lot [09:26] heh [09:26] i believe you're talking about different kind of waves here ;) [09:27] yes, I am. knome, we still have the docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu action item open [09:27] yeah... [09:28] i might actually be able to sit down with the issue today, depending what the client who tried to call me earlier needs from me.. [09:28] I'm here :) [09:28] it's going to be brought up in today's meeting, for sure [09:29] absolutely. [09:29] though i already forgot we had a meeting :P [09:29] and so soon now too! [09:29] mornings meetings [09:48] bluesabre: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9672#c5 makes we wonder.. I need to find more information about why thunar does not support desktop actions (anymore) [09:48] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9672 in General "Add desktop actions to parole.desktop" [Enhancement,Resolved: wontfix] [09:50] morning everyone [09:50] hi ochosi [09:53] morning guys [09:54] sorry, i might need an extra 5-10mins... [09:55] (if you wanna start the meeting feel free to) [09:55] brainwash: let me know if you find anything, but my comment basically sums up my thoughts on the matter [09:57] elfy: I really expected to see utopic beta on this list http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ [09:58] tonight probably? [09:59] poke balloons [10:00] ... and they pop [10:00] :P [10:00] ;) [10:02] o/ [10:03] hey skellat [10:04] Did I miss the meeting? === davmor2_ is now known as davmor2 [10:04] nope === Cajuntechie is now known as CajunTechie [10:05] ochosi running late, and we're all patient folks [10:05] #startmeeting [10:05] Meeting started Tue Aug 26 10:05:42 2014 UTC. The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [10:05] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [10:05] hey !team [10:05] !team | hey everyone, meeting time [10:05] hey everyone, meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193 [10:05] hey ochosi [10:05] o/ [10:06] just as a disclaimer, i might get a phone-call during the meeting that i'll have to take [10:06] so don't worry if i'm suddenly mute :) [10:06] (i didn't die in front of my computer in that case) [10:07] as far as we'll know [10:07] :] [10:07] soo, who's here apart from bluesabre and skellat? [10:08] o/ [10:08] right, so let's get on with it [10:09] #topic gksu/do versus pkexec [10:09] we still have that on our agenda [10:09] bluesabre: wanna #info something on that? [10:09] #info we now have pkexec policy files for thunar and mousepad [10:10] they, among other things, need translations https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings [10:10] what's the doc-status on this? [10:10] on what ochosi? pkexec? [10:10] yup [10:11] bluesabre: so a call for translations to the ML maybe? [10:11] well, knome and I haven't started working on that [10:11] but you have it on the radar [10:11] but we're planning to do it shortly [10:11] yeaps [10:11] #info slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec [10:12] #undo [10:12] Removing item from minutes: INFO [10:12] #action slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec [10:12] ACTION: slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec [10:12] ochosi: yeah, need to do a call for all of our projects [10:12] though, I think there was one already recently [10:12] bluesabre: mind doing that (since you seem to have the overview)? [10:12] sure thing [10:12] bluesabre: have upload the new strings for menulibre? [10:12] + you [10:12] #action bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist [10:12] ACTION: bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist [10:13] slickymasterWork, not yet, to do shortly [10:13] ok [10:13] was going to do it sunday with other translation releases, got derailed by gtk-theme-config [10:13] :) [10:13] :) [10:13] so, anything else on pkexec? [10:14] We have thunar and mousepad policies, need anything else? [10:14] slickymasterWork, looks like i'll have some time today [10:14] bluesabre, tell me, why does mousepad need it? [10:14] bluesabre: well we've asked around (also on the ML), and that's what ppl came up with [10:14] great knome. I'll ready whenever you are [10:14] because it can save files to system locations? [10:14] + be [10:14] knome: ppl might want an editor for config files? (e.g. lightdm config) [10:14] knome: dunno, I did what the others told me :) [10:15] ^ [10:15] or logind policies or whatever [10:15] ochosi, right, so wouldn't any app that saves files potentially need a policy, like transmission [10:15] edit != save [10:15] what about abiword/gnumeric? [10:15] aha [10:15] knome: In general you would not be using transmission to land a file straight to /var/apt/cache [10:15] i'd do this on an on-demand basis, tbh [10:15] For example [10:16] bluesabre, what about for xfce4-terminal? [10:16] anyway, I see this going down the wrong trail :) [10:16] i'm just asking [10:16] argument accepted. [10:16] slickymasterWork: the terminal really doesn't need one [10:16] so we're covering the "sensible" use cases that might need policies [10:16] you can execute super-user commands in a terminal anyway [10:16] skellat, thank you sherlock ;) [10:16] haha [10:17] ochosi, yes, I agree with you. was just asking because it was included in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec [10:17] knome: If memory serves, there actually is an apt transport package for using bittorrent if you really wanted to for some reason [10:17] slickymasterWork: yeah, that was a place set up for suggestions (incl. some from the community) [10:17] ok, got it [10:17] skellat, sure. and some people might want to download torrents to system directories, like sharing an ISO with all the users but not let them touch it. [10:17] so we took thunar and mousepad cause they made some sense, but not the terminal [10:18] ok, let's get back on the topic [10:18] anything else on pkexec? [10:18] not from me [10:18] nope [10:18] Nope [10:18] ok, moving along [10:18] #topic Open Action Items [10:18] from last time there are a few open action items [10:19] knome: any clue whether pleia2 started with the marketing support for the xfce bounty programme? [10:19] or shall we carry that along to the next meeting? [10:19] i imagine not. [10:19] let's carry it on [10:19] #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media [10:19] ACTION: marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media [10:19] bluesabre: what about your action items? [10:20] #info DONE: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki (somebody beat me to it by adding the link) [10:20] #info DONE: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings [10:20] #info DONE: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings [10:21] oh, where is that page? [10:21] bluesabre, #done too :P [10:21] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Maintained_packages [10:21] huhu [10:21] i want and added that link :) [10:21] #info DONE: skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam [10:21] 06:05 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [10:21] bluesabre, sorry for taking your item.. [10:21] bluesabre, that's broken. lderan! [10:22] knome: somebody had to do them, and I was dragging my feet ;) [10:22] knome: i guess we already carried your item forward... [10:22] ochosi, yep, that's fine. [10:22] #topic Team Updates [10:22] #info ochosi did a new release of the icon theme that adds support for the new power-manager amongst others [10:23] #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-settings, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed [10:23] \o/ [10:24] nice work bluesabre [10:24] (even though i'm not sure what xfce4-power-settings is, must be a new project ;)) [10:24] whatever that thing is, obviously not my project ;) [10:24] #undo [10:24] er not [10:24] ;) [10:25] #undo [10:25] Removing item from minutes: INFO [10:25] bluesabre: now feel free to go again ;) [10:25] #chair bluesabre [10:25] Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi [10:25] #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-manager, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed [10:26] #info ochosi talked to ubuntu devs about gtk3.12 affecting our default applications like evince. they will all remain in their gtk3.10 versions for 14.10, so we have nothing to worry about with headerbars and client-side decorations [10:26] if anyone spots problems with that ^ though, be sure to let me know [10:27] #info outside of that, headerbars and CSD work well enough with xubuntu... with compositor on they are fine, with it off, they have an extra xfwm titlebar on top [10:27] * bluesabre did some testing on the side [10:27] cool [10:27] saw the screenshots, it's okay [10:27] even if it isn't pretyt [10:27] pretty [10:28] yup, not broken = yay [10:28] :D [10:28] any other updates..? [10:29] oh yeah [10:29] #info apt-offline is fixed in utopic, courtesy of Unit193 [10:29] nice [10:30] ok, moving along... [10:30] #topic Announcements [10:30] #info Beta1 freeze is in effect [10:30] #info Beta1 releas on Thursday [10:30] bah [10:31] releas releas! [10:31] #undo [10:31] Removing item from minutes: INFO [10:31] #chair knome [10:31] Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi [10:31] #info Beta1 release on Thursday [10:31] #info Feature freeze is also in effect [10:31] i guess we're in bugfix mode then [10:31] #info Following freezes: UI freeze Sept 11, Doc string freeze Sept 18 ... [10:31] are there any blockers any of you have been seeing? (those of you who have been testing utopic i mean) [10:32] so far, we're pretty clear... things have stabilized a lot in the past week or so [10:32] good to hear [10:33] i'm actually just running updates on my utopic VM now [10:33] if i have any time and motivation, i'll try to set up my old laptop for testing [10:33] ok, any other announcements? [10:33] knome: that'd be nice! [10:33] otherwise i guess i'll just have to do VM testing at some point (again) [10:34] * slickymasterWork will continue with VM testing [10:34] yeah [10:34] #info Beta 1 is Thursday, we'll need iso testing, see elfy's mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-August/010387.html [10:35] a bit offtopic, but i have to admit i really enjoy the way whiskermenu works in utopic. with all the settings dialogs there, it's quite the universal launcher [10:35] yeah, i'll try to do a test this week [10:35] would be great if others could join in too [10:35] more announcements? [10:35] i'll try to squeeze some testing in, but tbh, schedule looks meh [10:36] yeah, was going to do one this morning, beta1 is not on the list yet it seems [10:36] I'll do some [10:37] great :D [10:37] yup, elfy will be happy to see those flowing in :) [10:37] #topic Discussion [10:37] #subtopic Incentives to get more people to help with QA and testing [10:38] i've discussed this with elfy and knome in this channel previously [10:38] but i thought we might want to consider throwing some of the leftover resources we have at people who help with testing [10:38] elfy has had a bit of a hard time this cycle finding and motivating folks to run the tests [10:39] which is probably partially due to this being LTS+1, partially due to testing not being the most exciting task in the world [10:39] (and maybe there are other factors i'm not thinking of now) [10:39] summer? [10:39] be that as it may, i think testing and QA is really important for us and we've had a great run in 14.04 with it [10:39] partially due to virtualbox seeming to fail on start [10:39] we should try to maintain that somehow and try to get new folks involved in that department [10:40] so one idea was to set up a sort of "incentive programme" where e.g. the "tester of the month" gets a xubuntu-sticker in the mail [10:40] and the "tester of the cycle" gets a t-shirt [10:40] just as examples [10:40] I think that'd be cool [10:40] i'd like to hear some opinions on that from you guys [10:41] (fwiw, i see a beneficial side-effect in this, we might be able to attract more people to contributing. testing is a good first step of getting familiar with xubuntu and the procedures around it) [10:42] slickymasterWork, skellat: opinions on ^ ? [10:43] knome: btw, how does that work with the stickers now, can we just order a single one on behalf of somebody else, i.e. get it mailed directly to someone's house? [10:43] the stickers from unixstickers are pretty nice [10:43] well, I believe that there are people testing, thing is that most of the people don't report their tests [10:44] ochosi, you'll have to ask pleia2 who set it all up [10:44] is what pleia2 set up unixstickers? [10:44] slickymasterWork: right, so we might need more incentive to get people to report their tests then i guess [10:44] but the incentive program seems a good idea [10:45] yeah, there are definitely people testing, got lots of feedback when I broke shimmer-themes ;) [10:45] to me, it doesn't seem to have any difference if we get completely new testers, or those who just don't report, to actually report tests [10:45] +1 [10:45] yes, the only way they would get rewarded would be measured but the number of reported tests [10:45] yup [10:46] I agree with knome. Reporting is the key. [10:46] ok, i suggest we let elfy come up with some ideas and vote on it in the next meeting? [10:46] wfm [10:47] (we might also have to review those options in terms of how much work it actually is to get a sticker sent to someone's house every month) [10:47] * slickymasterWork is aiming for the t-shirt :P [10:47] on a slightly related note, just wondering if there was any progress on this: [10:48] xubutrello: card 22 link [10:48] Couldn't find any card with id: 22. Aborting. [10:48] that never works for me [10:48] https://trello.com/c/835Pk6MH [10:48] #action elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it [10:48] ACTION: elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it [10:48] maybe team members should be not allowed to win :P [10:48] awwwwh :) [10:49] I want one with xub icon surfing knome [10:49] we can discuss that once elfy has set up that page i guess [10:49] well, it doesn't motivate new contributors.. [10:49] ok, let's carry on [10:49] #subtopic Jenkins for image testing [10:49] since bluesabre just brought it up, any idea what that idea was all about? :) [10:50] Jenkins is a "continuous integration" system but that's all I know about it [10:50] i've seen jenkins in action for xfce [10:50] and it seems quite good in terms of catching build-time errors [10:51] not sure what else it can do [10:53] alright, one last topic from my side... [10:53] #subtopic Trello and launchpad blueprints (again) [10:54] while elfy has synced the two, i really think that for the next cycle we should decide on which one we want to carry on with [10:54] using both is tedious and even more annoying than using launchpad during 14.04 was [10:54] and i appreciate that knome did put a lot of effort into getting the blueprint system running [10:55] so yeah, it's probably too early now, but i'd like us to have this discussion again towards the end of the cycle [10:55] and hear how team members felt it went [10:56] sounds good to me [10:57] i've personally disliked launchpad for its slowness, but the integration of the bugs and branches etc is quite good [10:58] maybe it can be improved somehow [10:58] alrighty, from my side, that's it [10:58] any other topics for discussion? [10:58] yeah [10:58] go ahead :) [10:59] #subtopic UI Updates [10:59] #info lightdm-gtk-greeter no longer supports proper centering, wondering if you guys think we should keep the "kinda-centered" layout, or consider others [11:00] examples, http://imgur.com/a/aSj6W#0 [11:01] and not sure if this is info-worthy, but do we want to stick with the desktop icon sizes, or adjust? http://imgur.com/tsLjypk [11:01] ah right [11:01] yeah, thanks for bringing that up again [11:01] this all comes from xubuntu-default-settings, so changes are quick and easy, but wanted to discuss before UIF [11:02] * slickymasterWork likes the power on right option [11:02] i'm leaning towards "clock, power on right" as long as the clock isn't really centered [11:02] I'm with you ochosi [11:03] also, IMO we would stick with the desktop icon sizes [11:03] yep, that seems like the best one [11:03] it's close to our default panel layout and "clock on right" somehow looks wrong [11:03] and with the icons, you can click the image to make it not tiny [11:03] yes [11:03] yeah, I agree with the clock, power on right [11:03] re: desktop 48/64 is ymy favorite [11:04] yeah, i somewhat agree with knome on that [11:04] or could be that 32/64 was even better [11:04] anything >64 on tooltip just looks way too huge [11:04] also from a technical side, we have a lot of icons for 64px, but not so many for 96px yet [11:04] so lotsa potential fuzziness [11:04] My complaint is that with 32, File Syst... is cut off, though I realize this probably happens a lot for other locales [11:05] * slickymasterWork also prefers desktop 48/64 [11:05] bluesabre: so let's set the tooltip to 64px and see how that looks [11:06] k [11:06] i don't mind bumping the size of the icons back to 48px [11:06] (call, brb) [11:12] sorry about that [11:12] bluesabre: so if you don't mind let's start with only the tooltips and if we dislike the 32px then, we bump that too [11:12] no need to discuss that in a meeting though [11:12] alrighty [11:12] sidenote: i was also considering to make the top panel 26 instead of 24px [11:12] just good to get multiple inputs :) [11:13] yes please [11:13] sure [11:13] :) [11:13] only problem atm with that is that the power-manager icon doesn't support it yet [11:13] will have to pull a few strings again [11:13] anyway... [11:13] oh? [11:13] wrapping it up [11:13] thanks everyone for the meeting! [11:14] #endmeeting [11:14] Meeting ended Tue Aug 26 11:14:18 2014 UTC. [11:14] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-08-26-10.05.moin.txt [11:14]