[01:06] <bluesabre> Unit193: I'd say, do xfce4-panel | lxpanel
[01:07] <bluesabre> the package is useless otherwise
[01:09] <Unit193> Sounds fine to me, then.  Versioned of course, just like the configure script is.
[01:19] <pleia2> can haz b1 image candidate soon
[01:26] <skellat> How many hours until meeting?
[01:26] <Unit193> Crap, xfce4-panel (>= 4.11), xfce4-panel (<< 4.13) is added by debhelper.  bluesabre: For sure punting to you. :P
[01:27] <bluesabre> cripes
[01:27] <bluesabre> crepes?
[01:34] <Unit193> Yeeep.
[01:40] <Unit193> bluesabre: I confirmed it shows up in the panel (more or less) in a VM, good enough to go?
[01:41] <bluesabre> Sounds good to me
[01:41] <Unit193> OK, I'll file the lxpanel side of things to take some off you at least.
[01:42] <pleia2> skellat: 8 I think
[01:45] <bluesabre> Unit193: great, thanks
[01:51] <bluesabre> Unit193: but right, I do not have pkg-xfce
[01:51] <Unit193> Noskcaj: ^
[01:56] <Unit193> Bug #1361459 
[02:04] <bluesabre> Unit193: lxpanel or lxpanel-dev?
[02:05] <Unit193> bluesabre: There is no lxpanel-dev yet, and my proposed patch does not create one.
[02:05] <bluesabre> alrighty
[02:05] <Unit193> Velociraptor might get one though.
[02:06] <bluesabre> we'll cross that bridge when we HOLY CRAP DINOSAURS
[02:06] <bluesabre> :)
[02:07] <Unit193> :D
[02:11] <bluesabre> Unit193: pulling your apt-offline now
[02:11] <Unit193> Thanks!
[02:26] <bluesabre> Unit193: and just because I don't fully understand the issue, assuming this fixes it?
[02:28] <skellat> bluesabre: The version in archive makes a call to apt with a flag that doesn't exist anymore.  Unit193's version cherrypicks the upstream fix that avoids the now non-existent flag to apt.
[02:28] <bluesabre> excellent, thanks for the explanation skellat
[02:28] <Unit193> bluesabre: I did extensive testing since the line offset was so far, it works.
[02:28] <bluesabre> thanks guys
[02:28] <Unit193> bluesabre: http://sigma.unit193.net/source/apt-offline_1.3.1ubuntu1.debdiff if that helps, I uploaded it last night too.
[02:28] <Unit193> Sure thing, doc.
[02:29] <bluesabre> ok, pushing now
[02:30] <skellat> Unit193, bluesabre: After the updated version marinates a couple days I'll probably have to get started with the SRU paperwork to get that to go back to 14.04
[02:31] <bluesabre> sounds good
[02:31] <Unit193> What he said, I wasn't planning on SRU'ing, so thanks.
[02:33] <bluesabre> you guys have anything to add to the meeting agenda for tomorrow?
[02:33] <bluesabre> I'll add something after the wiki times out a few times and I am logged in
[02:36] <Unit193> Looks short.
[02:42] <skellat> We have the gksu discussion
[02:42] <skellat> We get to discuss how verily borken gksu is
[02:42] <Unit193> That'll be fun...
[02:42] <Unit193> Meh, it's not that broken.
[02:43] <skellat> Unit193: Debian's got some "fun" bugs with it: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=gksu
[02:44] <bluesabre> thankfully most of our discussion is "we removed that things ages ago, and now we have pkexec policies, yay!"
[02:45] <skellat> Which is EXCELLENT!
[02:45] <Unit193> Meh, still not helpful, but I'm on the "losing side" anyway.
[02:46] <skellat> This is scary: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gksu/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
[03:18] <Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, for future uploads, dsc is fine?  You want both a dsc and debdiff?  Just debdiff?
[03:26] <bluesabre> Unit193: dsc is fine, I usually debdiff anyway
[06:20] <elfy> skellat: I'm pleased you're so happy that gksu is gone - perhaps team should have spent more time in the last 2 years dealing with the fact it's gone AND the fact that team left users with no option but to reinstall it as no-one bothered with actually dealing with pkexec - excellent
[06:24] <Unit193> pkexec feels like a bandaid and we've fixed packages we ship, but that's it.  The "fix" is not even as useful as what it's fixing, seems like it'd be like switching to wayland now, too early and undercooked.
[06:25] <elfy> yep I agree
[06:26] <elfy> nto quite sure why we're just following ubuntu along to be honest
[06:27] <Unit193> Using pkexec: "gtk.GtkWarning: could not open display" and a crash dialog, "Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:" but at least no crash dialog this time!  Yeah, if that's the case may as well use Mir too.
[06:28] <Unit193> But anyway, Ubuntu (or Xubuntu) changes things, I revert them.  Nothing new really and means I can actually launch applications.
[06:29] <elfy> yep - I use gksu here 
[06:29] <elfy> and will continue to tell people to install it
[06:29] <Unit193> Mhmm.
[06:31] <Unit193> Want a fun game?
[06:31] <Unit193> !find /usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.ubuntu.pkexec utopic
[06:31] <Unit193> Tadaaa!
[06:32] <Unit193> apt-cache rdepends gksu | wc -l: 42
[06:36] <elfy> I guess for pkexec to be any real use it should be able to work like gksu does - for anything that someone wants
[06:36] <elfy> I've lost interest now
[06:36] <Unit193> OK, sounds fine to me.
[08:59] <knome> brainwash, there won't be a xubuntu 12.04.5, we didn't participate (no HWE, no new worthy enough stuff from us)
[08:59] <brainwash> but there are daily build for it
[08:59] <brainwash> builds
[09:00] <brainwash> ok, people should switch to 14.04 anyway :)
[09:05] <knome> can't see any daily builds in the ISO tracker; if there are other, they are probably built automatically
[09:09] <brainwash> so it's just the usual daily build
[09:09] <brainwash> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily-live/current/
[09:09] <brainwash> labeled "Xubuntu 12.04.5 LTS"
[09:11] <knome> yep
[09:24] <slickymasterWork> morning everyone
[09:25] <knome> hello slickymasterWork 
[09:25] <slickymasterWork> hi knome :)
[09:25] <slickymasterWork> still flooded with work?
[09:25] <knome> a bit less, but still a bit :)
[09:25] <knome> and waiting for the next wave
[09:26] <slickymasterWork> waiting for waves is cool
[09:26]  * slickymasterWork does it a lot
[09:26] <knome> heh
[09:26] <knome> i believe you're talking about different kind of waves here ;)
[09:27] <slickymasterWork> yes, I am. knome, we still have the docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu action item open
[09:27] <knome> yeah...
[09:28] <knome> i might actually be able to sit down with the issue today, depending what the client who tried to call me earlier needs from me..
[09:28] <slickymasterWork> I'm here :)
[09:28] <slickymasterWork> it's going to be brought up in today's meeting, for sure
[09:29] <knome> absolutely.
[09:29] <knome> though i already forgot we had a meeting :P
[09:29] <knome> and so soon now too!
[09:29] <slickymasterWork> mornings meetings
[09:48] <brainwash> bluesabre: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9672#c5 makes we wonder.. I need to find more information about why thunar does not support desktop actions (anymore)
[09:50] <ochosi> morning everyone
[09:50] <brainwash> hi ochosi 
[09:53] <bluesabre> morning guys
[09:54] <ochosi> sorry, i might need an extra 5-10mins...
[09:55] <ochosi> (if you wanna start the meeting feel free to)
[09:55] <bluesabre> brainwash: let me know if you find anything, but my comment basically sums up my thoughts on the matter
[09:57] <bluesabre> elfy: I really expected to see utopic beta on this list http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[09:58] <bluesabre> tonight probably?
[09:59] <knome> poke balloons
[10:00] <bluesabre> ... and they pop
[10:00] <knome> :P
[10:00] <bluesabre> ;)
[10:02] <skellat> o/
[10:03] <bluesabre> hey skellat
[10:04] <skellat> Did I miss the meeting?
[10:04] <bluesabre> nope
[10:05] <bluesabre> ochosi running late, and we're all patient folks
[10:05] <ochosi> #startmeeting
[10:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 26 10:05:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[10:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[10:05] <ochosi> hey !team
[10:05] <ochosi> !team | hey everyone, meeting time
[10:05] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[10:05] <skellat> o/
[10:06] <ochosi> just as a disclaimer, i might get a phone-call during the meeting that i'll have to take
[10:06] <ochosi> so don't worry if i'm suddenly mute :)
[10:06] <ochosi> (i didn't die in front of my computer in that case)
[10:07] <bluesabre> as far as we'll know
[10:07] <ochosi> :]
[10:07] <ochosi> soo, who's here apart from bluesabre and skellat?
[10:08] <slickymasterWork> o/
[10:08] <ochosi> right, so let's get on with it
[10:09] <ochosi> #topic gksu/do versus pkexec
[10:09] <ochosi> we still have that on our agenda
[10:09] <ochosi> bluesabre: wanna #info something on that?
[10:09] <bluesabre> #info we now have pkexec policy files for thunar and mousepad
[10:10] <bluesabre> they, among other things, need translations https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings
[10:10] <ochosi> what's the doc-status on this?
[10:10] <slickymasterWork> on what ochosi? pkexec?
[10:10] <ochosi> yup
[10:11] <ochosi> bluesabre: so a call for translations to the ML maybe?
[10:11] <slickymasterWork> well, knome and I haven't started working on that
[10:11] <ochosi> but you have it on the radar
[10:11] <slickymasterWork> but we're planning to do it shortly
[10:11] <slickymasterWork> yeaps
[10:11] <ochosi> #info slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
[10:12] <ochosi> #undo
[10:12] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
[10:12] <ochosi> #action slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
[10:12] <meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
[10:12] <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, need to do a call for all of our projects
[10:12] <bluesabre> though, I think there was one already recently
[10:12] <ochosi> bluesabre: mind doing that (since you seem to have the overview)?
[10:12] <bluesabre> sure thing
[10:12] <slickymasterWork> bluesabre: have upload the new strings for menulibre?
[10:12] <slickymasterWork> + you
[10:12] <ochosi> #action bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist
[10:12] <meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist
[10:13] <bluesabre> slickymasterWork, not yet, to do shortly
[10:13] <slickymasterWork> ok
[10:13] <bluesabre> was going to do it sunday with other translation releases, got derailed by gtk-theme-config
[10:13] <bluesabre> :)
[10:13] <ochosi> :)
[10:13] <ochosi> so, anything else on pkexec?
[10:14] <bluesabre> We have thunar and mousepad policies, need anything else?
[10:14] <knome> slickymasterWork, looks like i'll have some time today
[10:14] <knome> bluesabre, tell me, why does mousepad need it?
[10:14] <ochosi> bluesabre: well we've asked around (also on the ML), and that's what ppl came up with
[10:14] <slickymasterWork> great knome. I'll ready whenever you are
[10:14] <knome> because it can save files to system locations?
[10:14] <slickymasterWork> + be
[10:14] <ochosi> knome: ppl might want an editor for config files? (e.g. lightdm config)
[10:14] <bluesabre> knome: dunno, I did what the others told me :)
[10:15] <bluesabre> ^
[10:15] <ochosi> or logind policies or whatever
[10:15] <knome> ochosi, right, so wouldn't any app that saves files potentially need a policy, like transmission
[10:15] <bluesabre> edit != save
[10:15] <knome> what about abiword/gnumeric?
[10:15] <knome> aha
[10:15] <skellat> knome: In general you would not be using transmission to land a file straight to /var/apt/cache
[10:15] <ochosi> i'd do this on an on-demand basis, tbh
[10:15] <skellat> For example
[10:16] <slickymasterWork> bluesabre, what about for xfce4-terminal?
[10:16] <bluesabre> anyway, I see this going down the wrong trail :)
[10:16] <knome> i'm just asking
[10:16] <knome> argument accepted.
[10:16] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: the terminal really doesn't need one
[10:16] <knome> so we're covering the "sensible" use cases that might need policies
[10:16] <ochosi> you can execute super-user commands in a terminal anyway
[10:16] <knome> skellat, thank you sherlock ;)
[10:16] <bluesabre> haha
[10:17] <slickymasterWork> ochosi, yes, I agree with you. was just asking because it was included in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec
[10:17] <skellat> knome: If memory serves, there actually is an apt transport package for using bittorrent if you really wanted to for some reason
[10:17] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: yeah, that was a place set up for suggestions (incl. some from the community)
[10:17] <slickymasterWork> ok, got it
[10:17] <knome> skellat, sure. and some people might want to download torrents to system directories, like sharing an ISO with all the users but not let them touch it.
[10:17] <ochosi> so we took thunar and mousepad cause they made some sense, but not the terminal
[10:18] <ochosi> ok, let's get back on the topic
[10:18] <ochosi> anything else on pkexec?
[10:18] <bluesabre> not from me
[10:18] <knome> nope
[10:18] <skellat> Nope
[10:18] <ochosi> ok, moving along
[10:18] <ochosi> #topic Open Action Items
[10:18] <ochosi> from last time there are a few open action items
[10:19] <ochosi> knome: any clue whether pleia2 started with the marketing support for the xfce bounty programme?
[10:19] <ochosi> or shall we carry that along to the next meeting?
[10:19] <knome> i imagine not.
[10:19] <knome> let's carry it on
[10:19] <ochosi> #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media 
[10:19] <meetingology> ACTION: marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
[10:19] <ochosi> bluesabre: what about your action items?
[10:20] <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki (somebody beat me to it by adding the link)
[10:20] <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings 
[10:20] <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings 
[10:21] <ochosi> oh, where is that page?
[10:21] <knome> bluesabre, #done too :P
[10:21] <bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Maintained_packages
[10:21] <ochosi> huhu
[10:21] <knome> i want and added that link :)
[10:21] <skellat> #info DONE: skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam 
[10:21] <bluesabre> 06:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[10:21] <knome> bluesabre, sorry for taking your item..
[10:21] <knome> bluesabre, that's broken. lderan!
[10:22] <bluesabre> knome: somebody had to do them, and I was dragging my feet ;)
[10:22] <ochosi> knome: i guess we already carried your item forward...
[10:22] <knome> ochosi, yep, that's fine.
[10:22] <ochosi> #topic Team Updates
[10:22] <ochosi> #info ochosi did a new release of the icon theme that adds support for the new power-manager amongst others
[10:23] <bluesabre> #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-settings, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed
[10:23] <ochosi> \o/
[10:24] <ochosi> nice work bluesabre 
[10:24] <ochosi> (even though i'm not sure what xfce4-power-settings is, must be a new project ;))
[10:24] <bluesabre> whatever that thing is, obviously not my project ;)
[10:24] <bluesabre> #undo
[10:24] <bluesabre> er not
[10:24] <bluesabre> ;)
[10:25] <ochosi> #undo
[10:25] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
[10:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: now feel free to go again ;)
[10:25] <ochosi> #chair bluesabre 
[10:25] <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi
[10:25] <bluesabre> #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-manager, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed
[10:26] <ochosi> #info ochosi talked to ubuntu devs about gtk3.12 affecting our default applications like evince. they will all remain in their gtk3.10 versions for 14.10, so we have nothing to worry about with headerbars and client-side decorations
[10:26] <ochosi> if anyone spots problems with that ^ though, be sure to let me know
[10:27] <bluesabre> #info outside of that, headerbars and CSD work well enough with xubuntu... with compositor on they are fine, with it off, they have an extra xfwm titlebar on top
[10:27]  * bluesabre did some testing on the side
[10:27] <ochosi> cool
[10:27] <ochosi> saw the screenshots, it's okay
[10:27] <ochosi> even if it isn't pretyt
[10:27] <ochosi> pretty
[10:28] <bluesabre> yup, not broken = yay
[10:28] <ochosi> :D
[10:28] <ochosi> any other updates..?
[10:29] <bluesabre> oh yeah
[10:29] <bluesabre> #info apt-offline is fixed in utopic, courtesy of Unit193
[10:29] <ochosi> nice
[10:30] <ochosi> ok, moving along...
[10:30] <ochosi> #topic Announcements
[10:30] <ochosi> #info Beta1 freeze is in effect
[10:30] <knome> #info Beta1 releas on Thursday
[10:30] <knome> bah
[10:31] <knome> releas releas!
[10:31] <ochosi> #undo
[10:31] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
[10:31] <ochosi> #chair knome 
[10:31] <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi
[10:31] <knome> #info Beta1 release on Thursday
[10:31] <bluesabre> #info Feature freeze is also in effect
[10:31] <ochosi> i guess we're in bugfix mode then
[10:31] <knome> #info Following freezes: UI freeze Sept 11, Doc string freeze Sept 18 ...
[10:31] <ochosi> are there any blockers any of you have been seeing? (those of you who have been testing utopic i mean)
[10:32] <bluesabre> so far, we're pretty clear... things have stabilized a lot in the past week or so
[10:32] <ochosi> good to hear
[10:33] <ochosi> i'm actually just running updates on my utopic VM now
[10:33] <knome> if i have any time and motivation, i'll try to set up my old laptop for testing
[10:33] <ochosi> ok, any other announcements?
[10:33] <ochosi> knome: that'd be nice!
[10:33] <knome> otherwise i guess i'll just have to do VM testing at some point (again)
[10:34]  * slickymasterWork will continue with VM testing
[10:34] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:34] <bluesabre> #info Beta 1 is Thursday, we'll need iso testing, see elfy's mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-August/010387.html
[10:35] <ochosi> a bit offtopic, but i have to admit i really enjoy the way whiskermenu works in utopic. with all the settings dialogs there, it's quite the universal launcher
[10:35] <ochosi> yeah, i'll try to do a test this week
[10:35] <ochosi> would be great if others could join in too
[10:35] <ochosi> more announcements?
[10:35] <knome> i'll try to squeeze some testing in, but tbh, schedule looks meh
[10:36] <bluesabre> yeah, was going to do one this morning, beta1 is not on the list yet it seems
[10:36] <slickymasterWork> I'll do some
[10:37] <bluesabre> great :D
[10:37] <ochosi> yup, elfy will be happy to see those flowing in :)
[10:37] <ochosi> #topic Discussion
[10:37] <ochosi> #subtopic Incentives to get more people to help with QA and testing
[10:38] <ochosi> i've discussed this with elfy and knome in this channel previously
[10:38] <ochosi> but i thought we might want to consider throwing some of the leftover resources we have at people who help with testing
[10:38] <ochosi> elfy has had a bit of a hard time this cycle finding and motivating folks to run the tests
[10:39] <ochosi> which is probably partially due to this being LTS+1, partially due to testing not being the most exciting task in the world
[10:39] <ochosi> (and maybe there are other factors i'm not thinking of now)
[10:39] <knome> summer?
[10:39] <ochosi> be that as it may, i think testing and QA is really important for us and we've had a great run in 14.04 with it
[10:39] <bluesabre> partially due to virtualbox seeming to fail on start
[10:39] <ochosi> we should try to maintain that somehow and try to get new folks involved in that department
[10:40] <ochosi> so one idea was to set up a sort of "incentive programme" where e.g. the "tester of the month" gets a xubuntu-sticker in the mail
[10:40] <ochosi> and the "tester of the cycle" gets a t-shirt
[10:40] <ochosi> just as examples
[10:40] <bluesabre> I think that'd be cool
[10:40] <ochosi> i'd like to hear some opinions on that from you guys
[10:41] <ochosi> (fwiw, i see a beneficial side-effect in this, we might be able to attract more people to contributing. testing is a good first step of getting familiar with xubuntu and the procedures around it)
[10:42] <ochosi> slickymasterWork, skellat: opinions on ^ ?
[10:43] <ochosi> knome: btw, how does that work with the stickers now, can we just order a single one on behalf of somebody else, i.e. get it mailed directly to someone's house?
[10:43] <bluesabre> the stickers from unixstickers are pretty nice
[10:43] <slickymasterWork> well, I believe that there are people testing, thing is that most of the people don't report their tests
[10:44] <knome> ochosi, you'll have to ask pleia2 who set it all up
[10:44] <ochosi> is what pleia2 set up unixstickers?
[10:44] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: right, so we might need more incentive to get people to report their tests then i guess
[10:44] <slickymasterWork> but the incentive program seems a good idea
[10:45] <bluesabre> yeah, there are definitely people testing, got lots of feedback when I broke shimmer-themes ;)
[10:45] <knome> to me, it doesn't seem to have any difference if we get completely new testers, or those who just don't report, to actually report tests
[10:45] <ochosi> +1
[10:45] <slickymasterWork> yes, the only way they would get rewarded would be measured but the number of reported tests
[10:45] <bluesabre> yup
[10:46] <skellat> I agree with knome.  Reporting is the key.
[10:46] <ochosi> ok, i suggest we let elfy come up with some ideas and vote on it in the next meeting?
[10:46] <slickymasterWork> wfm
[10:47] <ochosi> (we might also have to review those options in terms of how much work it actually is to get a sticker sent to someone's house every month)
[10:47]  * slickymasterWork is aiming for the t-shirt :P
[10:47] <bluesabre> on a slightly related note, just wondering if there was any progress on this:
[10:48] <bluesabre> xubutrello: card 22 link
[10:48] <xubutrello> Couldn't find any card with id: 22. Aborting.
[10:48] <bluesabre> that never works for me
[10:48] <bluesabre> https://trello.com/c/835Pk6MH
[10:48] <ochosi> #action elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it
[10:48] <meetingology> ACTION: elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it
[10:48] <knome> maybe team members should be not allowed to win :P
[10:48] <ochosi> awwwwh :)
[10:49] <slickymasterWork> I want one with xub icon surfing knome 
[10:49] <ochosi> we can discuss that once elfy has set up that page i guess
[10:49] <knome> well, it doesn't motivate new contributors..
[10:49] <ochosi> ok, let's carry on
[10:49] <ochosi> #subtopic Jenkins for image testing
[10:49] <ochosi> since bluesabre just brought it up, any idea what that idea was all about? :)
[10:50] <skellat> Jenkins is a "continuous integration" system but that's all I know about it
[10:50] <ochosi> i've seen jenkins in action for xfce
[10:50] <ochosi> and it seems quite good in terms of catching build-time errors
[10:51] <ochosi> not sure what else it can do
[10:53] <ochosi> alright, one last topic from my side...
[10:53] <ochosi> #subtopic Trello and launchpad blueprints (again)
[10:54] <ochosi> while elfy has synced the two, i really think that for the next cycle we should decide on which one we want to carry on with
[10:54] <ochosi> using both is tedious and even more annoying than using launchpad during 14.04 was
[10:54] <ochosi> and i appreciate that knome did put a lot of effort into getting the blueprint system running
[10:55] <ochosi> so yeah, it's probably too early now, but i'd like us to have this discussion again towards the end of the cycle
[10:55] <ochosi> and hear how team members felt it went
[10:56] <bluesabre> sounds good to me
[10:57] <ochosi> i've personally disliked launchpad for its slowness, but the integration of the bugs and branches etc is quite good
[10:58] <ochosi> maybe it can be improved somehow
[10:58] <ochosi> alrighty, from my side, that's it
[10:58] <ochosi> any other topics for discussion?
[10:58] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:58] <ochosi> go ahead :)
[10:59] <bluesabre> #subtopic UI Updates
[10:59] <bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter no longer supports proper centering, wondering if you guys think we should keep the "kinda-centered" layout, or consider others
[11:00] <bluesabre> examples, http://imgur.com/a/aSj6W#0
[11:01] <bluesabre> and not sure if this is info-worthy, but do we want to stick with the desktop icon sizes, or adjust? http://imgur.com/tsLjypk
[11:01] <ochosi> ah right
[11:01] <ochosi> yeah, thanks for bringing that up again
[11:01] <bluesabre> this all comes from xubuntu-default-settings, so changes are quick and easy, but wanted to discuss before UIF
[11:02]  * slickymasterWork likes the power on right option
[11:02] <ochosi> i'm leaning towards "clock, power on right" as long as the clock isn't really centered
[11:02] <slickymasterWork> I'm with you ochosi 
[11:03] <slickymasterWork> also, IMO we would stick with the desktop icon sizes
[11:03] <knome> yep, that seems like the best one
[11:03] <ochosi> it's close to our default panel layout and "clock on right" somehow looks wrong
[11:03] <bluesabre> and with the icons, you can click the image to make it not tiny
[11:03] <slickymasterWork> yes
[11:03] <bluesabre> yeah, I agree with the clock, power on right
[11:03] <knome> re: desktop 48/64 is ymy favorite
[11:04] <ochosi> yeah, i somewhat agree with knome on that
[11:04] <knome> or could be that 32/64 was even better
[11:04] <knome> anything >64 on tooltip just looks way too huge
[11:04] <ochosi> also from a technical side, we have a lot of icons for 64px, but not so many for 96px yet
[11:04] <ochosi> so lotsa potential fuzziness
[11:04] <bluesabre> My complaint is that with 32, File Syst... is cut off, though I realize this probably happens a lot for other locales
[11:05]  * slickymasterWork also prefers desktop 48/64
[11:05] <ochosi> bluesabre: so let's set the tooltip to 64px and see how that looks
[11:06] <bluesabre> k
[11:06] <ochosi> i don't mind bumping the size of the icons back to 48px
[11:06] <ochosi> (call, brb)
[11:12] <ochosi> sorry about that
[11:12] <ochosi> bluesabre: so if you don't mind let's start with only the tooltips and if we dislike the 32px then, we bump that too
[11:12] <ochosi> no need to discuss that in a meeting though
[11:12] <bluesabre> alrighty
[11:12] <ochosi> sidenote: i was also considering to make the top panel 26 instead of 24px
[11:12] <bluesabre> just good to get multiple inputs :)
[11:13] <bluesabre> yes please
[11:13] <ochosi> sure
[11:13] <bluesabre> :)
[11:13] <ochosi> only problem atm with that is that the power-manager icon doesn't support it yet
[11:13] <ochosi> will have to pull a few strings again
[11:13] <ochosi> anyway...
[11:13] <bluesabre> oh?
[11:13] <ochosi> wrapping it up
[11:13] <ochosi> thanks everyone for the meeting!
[11:14] <ochosi> #endmeeting
[11:14] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 26 11:14:18 2014 UTC.  
[11:14] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-08-26-10.05.moin.txt
[11:14] <bluesabre> woot, thanks ochosi
[11:14] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-08262014-011422pm.php
[11:14] <ochosi> this ^ is how it looks with 26px
[11:14]  * skellat goes back to bed
[11:14] <bluesabre> actually. looks fine for me at 26px
[11:14] <ochosi> night skellat 
[11:15] <bluesabre> are you using png or svg theme?
[11:15] <ochosi> i'm using whatever is in utopic now
[11:16] <bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/HY7fY0Q.png
[11:16] <ochosi> hm, i guess i know why
[11:17] <ochosi> i'll fix that...
[11:18] <ochosi> ok done
[11:29] <ochosi> argh, someone removed the "we are here" part in the meeting page comments
[11:30] <ochosi> i guess we're back at the beginning
[11:31] <knome> i did!
[11:31] <knome> yes, we are at the beginning
[11:32] <knome> reason i removed it: it wasn't kept up-to-date...
[11:32] <ochosi> oh
[11:32] <ochosi> hm :/
[11:32] <ochosi> i added it back now
[11:32] <knome> sure
[11:32] <ochosi> just so *i* remember :)
[11:32] <knome> just poke your leaders to update it as well ;)
[11:32] <knome> at least you can determine where in the list we are based on when *you* last held a meeting ;)
[11:33] <ochosi> exactly :)
[11:33] <knome> hmm... i just scored validation rights for the finnish translation of wordpress
[11:33] <knome> (disclaimer: i've translated 0 strings in wordpress to finnish)
 elfy: I really expected to see utopic beta on this list http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ - as soon as I do see something about it I'll ping the m/l with the real url - but from memory on the last alpha - it was all really late and I don't expect it to be different this time
[11:49] <ochosi> hey elfy 
[11:50] <elfy> hi 
[11:50] <elfy> lunchtime - not here much :)
[11:50] <ochosi> i hope you're fine with us discussing the QA incentive idea despite your absence
[11:50] <elfy> of course :)
[11:50] <ochosi> (and assigning a task to you :p)
[11:51] <elfy> yea saw that
[11:51] <elfy> I see you're going to be setting the next meeting - so if it's the same sort of time - expect me to not be there :)
[11:52] <ochosi> well i'm fairly open to different times
[11:52] <ochosi> so if there is a time that works better for everyone i'm fine with that
[11:52] <ochosi> but it looks like we don't have a single time
[11:53] <elfy> moving times about makes it good to get different people to at least get to meetings - I've no problem with that at all :)
[11:53] <ochosi> yup, actually i think the meeting cycling has been working well this cycle
[11:54] <elfy> for people that work with computers if it's worktime they've got more chance of attending - if I attend when I'm working I'm likely to crash the van and die :p
[11:54] <elfy> I like you all - just not that much :D
[11:55] <ochosi> :D
[13:25] <ochosi> Unit193: would you happen to know whether lubuntu folks plan to land lxde panel 0.7 in 14.10? i'm mostly wondering because it breaks the xfpm plugin for them
[13:26] <brainwash> will we remove indicator-power from the seed?
[13:27] <brainwash> nevermind
[13:27] <brainwash> already gone
[14:05] <brainwash> ochosi: will installations upgraded to 14.10 show two battery indicators?
[14:06] <ochosi> no
[14:06] <ochosi> the user's panel layout isn't touched
[14:06] <ochosi> so the xfpm plugin won't be there
[14:06] <brainwash> ah right
[14:06] <brainwash> but new user accounts will
[14:07] <ochosi> yeah, i guess so
[14:07] <ochosi> but it's easy enough to remove either
[14:07] <brainwash> luckily :)
[14:07] <ochosi> wouldn't consider that a huge problem
[14:07] <elfy> ochosi: they're adding you and me to the contact list for -release stuff
[14:07] <brainwash> no, just a small annoyance
[14:07] <ochosi> elfy: yup, noticed. thanks!
[14:07] <elfy> I thought you would :)
[14:08] <elfy> and we're all sorted for beta 
[14:08] <ochosi> thanks a bunch, looking forward to it
[14:08] <elfy> no need to mail the release list re that
[14:09] <elfy> unignoring queuebot till I see it built for us :p
[14:19] <ochosi> bbl
[14:44] <slickymasterWork> the queuebot is starting to spit the builds
[14:44] <elfy> ours failed to build ... 
 Unpacking xubuntu-live-settings (14.10.4) ...
 dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/xubuntu-live-settings_14.10.4_all.deb (--unpack):
  trying to overwrite '/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/autostart/light-locker.desktop', which is also in package xubuntu-default-settings 14.10.4
[14:45] <slickymasterWork> bah
[14:56] <knome> oops :)
[14:58] <knome> slickymasterWork, want to get on the doc issue soonish?
[14:59]  * slickymasterWork is at knome's disposal
[14:59] <elfy> knome: yea -somewhat an oops :)
[14:59] <slickymasterWork> let me just start my xubuntu box
[15:00] <knome> let me also make some coffee...
[15:11]  * slickymasterWork goes to have a smoke while knome makes his coffee
[15:11] <knome> sure, ping me when you're back
[15:11]  * knome eats yoghurt meanwhile
[15:11]  * elfy does both and sits back to watch 
[15:12] <knome> lol
[15:18] <knome> slickymasterWork, there are two occurrences we need to look at:
[15:18] <knome> wait, three...
[15:19] <knome> command-line.xml:30
[15:19] <knome> migrating-upgrading:80
[15:19] <knome> printing-scanning:119
[15:19] <slickymasterWork> let me just build the docs quickly knome 
[15:22] <slickymasterWork> yes, those were the ones from where I removed gksu and add sudo -i to replace it
[15:22] <knome> yep
[15:23] <knome> is the new way to do it just: pkexec mousepad /file?
[15:23] <slickymasterWork> I'm migrating those files from another computer to this one
[15:24] <slickymasterWork> ok, I have the files here
[15:25] <knome> i think the latter two are the easy ones
[15:25] <knome> if "pkexec app parameters" is the right syntax to use, that is
[15:26]  * slickymasterWork doesn't have a clue of the correct syntax re: pkexec
[15:27] <knome> yep, that's the right syntax
[15:27] <knome> so just revert it to almost what it was, but s/gksudo/pkexec/
[15:28] <slickymasterWork> knome: in migrating-upgrading:80 it refers to xfce4-terminal and there's no policy file for that
[15:28] <knome> i have no idea why, but the coffee tastes crap..
[15:28] <slickymasterWork> bad beans, maybe?
[15:28] <knome> no, the same coffee from the same package has been okay before
[15:28] <knome> do i have a different version of the file?
[15:29] <genii> Probably stale coffee
[15:29] <knome> in my file, it only talks about running update-manager
[15:29] <slickymasterWork> I've just branched
[15:29] <knome> genii, like, the one i just brewed? :P
[15:29] <slickymasterWork> wait, you're right, I didn't read the entire string :P
[15:29]  * genii sips and contemplates
[15:29] <knome> slickymasterWork, there you go ;(
[15:30]  * knome pours genii some more
[15:30] <genii> Heh, thanks
[15:31] <knome> slickymasterWork, so, those tho are easy, but what about command-line:30 ?
[15:32] <slickymasterWork> so something like this knome: "If you would like to install and test the latest development version of Xubuntu before it is released, run <userinput>pkexec update-manager -c -d</userinput> at the command line. This will allow you to upgrade to the current development release.</para>
[15:32] <knome> yep.
[15:32] <knome> that's perfect
[15:32] <knome> we should mention the correct syntax obviously
[15:32] <knome> but we might want to have another "note" box
[15:32] <slickymasterWork> that's what I was going to ask you
[15:32] <knome> to note that the application they will be running might not have a policy file
[15:33] <knome> ^ last two comments re: command-line:30
[15:33] <slickymasterWork> ok
[15:33] <slickymasterWork> let me see how it's now
[15:34] <slickymasterWork> that string has to be completely re-written 
[15:34] <knome> yep
[15:34] <knome> let's put it in a pad
[15:35] <slickymasterWork> would you do the honors please?
[15:35] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/wifqBCv3D3
[15:35] <knome> sure ;)
[15:35] <slickymasterWork> accessing it
[15:39] <slickymasterWork> knome: I think it's good
[15:39] <knome> it's a bit too verbose
[15:40] <slickymasterWork> I don't, tbh
[15:40] <slickymasterWork> I think it's quite concise and to the point
[15:41] <slickymasterWork> one thing though, if we're going to add the note in the command-line.xml:30 chapter, there's no need to do it againf in the other two chapters
[15:42] <knome> not at all
[15:42] <knome> the other two are fine with as they are with pkexec instead of sudo -i
[15:43] <slickymasterWork> yes
[15:43] <slickymasterWork> but you still don't feel comfortable with the command-line.xml:30 reword
[15:44] <knome> it's better now
[15:44] <knome> it's much shorter, and avoids saying things twice
[15:45] <slickymasterWork> yeaps
[15:45] <slickymasterWork> I can do a MP tonight, or do you want to do it?
[15:45] <knome> i can do it, but in that case, paste the other changes to the pad too so i don't have to rethink them ;)
[15:46] <slickymasterWork> will do it in five minutes
[15:46] <knome> ta
[15:50] <slickymasterWork> knome: instead of "...run <userinput>pkexec update-manager -c -d</userinput> at the command line..." why not "...run <userinput>pkexec update-manager -c -d</userinput> at a terminal window..."?
[15:51] <knome> because it might be a real command line ;)
[15:51] <slickymasterWork> hmmm... okay
[15:51] <knome> there is no such thing as "terminal window" if we are literal
[15:51] <knome> it's just a window of a terminal emulator application
[15:52] <slickymasterWork> yeah, I know, just if you're really down to earth like
[15:52] <knome> well the whole section is called "The command line" not "the terminal (window)"
[15:53] <knome> so it's consistent to keep referring to the command line as well
[15:53] <slickymasterWork> just putting you on :P
[15:53] <knome> hah
[15:54] <slickymasterWork> added those other two to the pad
[15:54] <slickymasterWork> knome: ^ª
[15:56] <knome> yep
[15:56] <slickymasterWork> why did you strike them?
[15:56] <knome> "done locally"
[15:57]  * slickymasterWork for a minute there got scared
[15:57] <knome> haha
[15:58] <slickymasterWork> as we're already with our hands dirty knome, what about taking a look at "Update the docs networking section for the new NetworkManager"
[15:58] <slickymasterWork> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-docs
[15:59] <knome> do you have access to a utopic system?
[15:59] <slickymasterWork> yeaps
[16:00] <elfy> don't want to interfere here - but has anyone checked pkexec update-manager -c -d at all
[16:00] <slickymasterWork> knome: did check the syntax elfy 
[16:00] <knome> no.
[16:00] <knome> but that's the pkexec synta
[16:00] <knome> +x
[16:01] <elfy> I'd not just replace gksu with pekexec without checking
[16:01] <knome> i'm PRETTY sure update-manager has a policy file
[16:01] <knome> i'll check when i run utopic :)
[16:02] <elfy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8151101/
[16:02] <knome> wonder if it's part of release-upgrader :)
[16:03] <knome> i can't think of any reason why it wouldn't have a policy file.
[16:03] <slickymasterWork> knome, elfy, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-release-upgrader/pkexec
[16:03] <elfy> no idea - not too worried either tbh - I just install gksu 
[16:03] <knome> heh
[16:11] <slickymasterWork> knome: can we postponed the NetworkManager item? something came up here and I'll have to solve it
[16:12] <knome> yep, i don't have access to a utopic system anyway at least :)
[16:12] <knome> pushed changes to main branch
[16:13] <slickymasterWork> thanks, I'll mark the item as done, both in trello and the blueprint
[16:13] <knome> ta
[16:53] <elfy> so - looks dodgy for any beta for us then for the moment 
[16:53] <elfy> also appears that we've not had a daily since the 24th
[17:39] <pleia2> elfy: ah, was just going to ask about that
[17:40] <pleia2> was hoping to do some beta preimage tests before I go away again tomorrow
[17:41] <elfy> yep - looking decidedly dodgy pleia2 
[17:41] <elfy> even if we get it dealt with - then you've got to wait for the rebuild, then hope that we get time to test it - I'm going to go to bed assuming we'll not be testing beta 1
[17:42] <knome> or we'll release b1 late
[17:43] <elfy> but will it be a beta - we'll be back testing dailies, or not - by that point
[17:44] <knome> we can ask to keep the beta images, up, sure
[17:44] <knome> -,
[17:45] <elfy> well - I guess it depends on how many results we're likely to see imo
[17:47] <elfy> all moot until it gets fixed 
[19:05] <Unit193> ochosi: No.
[19:20] <elfy> bluesabre: just noticed what your trello comment was about - jenkins, that always runs - but it's no replacement for people 
[19:21] <elfy> I didn't see that there were no results for us from the 24th for instance - we've had no builds since then - probably the same thing that's causing the beta build to fail
[19:21] <elfy> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Ubiquity/view/Xubuntu/
[19:29] <Unit193> Right, file upgrade test.
[19:32] <Unit193> Bah, no report to file.
[19:33] <elfy> what are you talking about lol
[19:34] <Unit193> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/322/builds at least for me has no upgrade tests.
[19:36] <elfy> beta is not building Unit193 
[19:36] <elfy> stgraber> elfy: xubuntu-live-settings and xubuntu-default-settings both ship the same file, so you get a conflict at install time and dpkg fails
[19:36] <Unit193> It's an upgrade, it doesn't build.
[19:36] <Unit193> Reported against daily, since that's marked "testing"
[19:37] <elfy> daily is days behind too - same reason I'd guess
[19:38] <Unit193> Sure, but I'm not using an ISO, and I did the test, so it should be "reported" somewhere. :P
[19:39] <elfy> someone has to - so thanks :)
[20:31] <elfy> shall catch up in the morning on -release
[20:48] <Unit193> ochosi: Looks like a no, and no FFe.
[21:12] <Unit193> brainwash: The fella the does the indicator-plugin has commit access to thunar, IIRC.  Also, we ship two patches in Xubuntu, and have for a bit, so I'd hope/think they're tested enough to commit upstream.
[21:13] <brainwash> that's andrzej
[21:14] <Unit193> Yep, just couldn't remember the nick.
[21:18] <brainwash> maintaining something like thunar is not easy, things can break easily if one adds new stuff or rewrites parts of the code
[21:50] <Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/thunar/utopic/files/head:/debian/patches/ a couple in there could go upstream, though.
[21:51] <brainwash> some are already included upstream
[21:52] <brainwash> git-xfdesktop-4.11.patch
[21:52] <Unit193> Mhmm.
[21:52] <brainwash> gtk3-bookmarks.patch
[21:52] <brainwash> but not my messy menu-icon-tweaks.patch
[21:52] <brainwash> :D
[21:52] <Unit193> Oh, gtk3-bookmarks did make it?  Nice.
[21:53] <brainwash> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=6a63d7bd8ff0d937cb30f112c3fd080a5a107053
[21:55] <brainwash> so we could drop most of the debian patches when a new upstream release is available
[22:06] <ochosi> bluesabre: i guess we need to look into the conflict of light-locker.desktop and x-d-s
[22:07] <Unit193> You "guess"? :)
[22:13] <brainwash> interesting -> https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
[22:14] <ochosi> isn't that the same thing ali1234 hacked together?
[22:15] <ali1234> similar but different implementation
[22:16] <ali1234> looks a bit safer than my version
[22:51] <ochosi> ali1234: the close button still being there is a bit annoying though
[23:13] <bluesabre> ochosi: I'll fix x-d-s now
[23:13] <bluesabre> since we no longer auto-lock, we can probably drop the desktop from live-settings
[23:13] <bluesabre> .desktop
[23:14] <ochosi> indeed
[23:14] <ochosi> thanks bluesabre 
[23:28] <bluesabre> ochosi: what's up?
[23:37] <bluesabre> ochosi: updated package pushed to ubuntu 
[23:38] <Unit193> :D
[23:38] <bluesabre> hopefully with less breakiness now :)
[23:39] <bluesabre> when that is built in the archive, I'll poke stgraber
[23:41] <ochosi> sounds good
[23:50] <bluesabre> glad I poked before
[23:50] <bluesabre> :)
[23:56] <brainwash> bluesabre: can you commit https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10740 to trunk?
[23:58] <bluesabre> ochosi ^ sounds familiar