[00:03] <bluesabre> brainwash: so, what does it mean by versioned help files?
[00:05] <brainwash> xfce_dialog_show_help_with_version ()
[00:05] <brainwash> it's http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-settings/utopic/view/head:/debian/patches/02_versioned-help-files.patch
[00:06] <brainwash> once it has been applied upstream we can drop it downstream :)
[00:07] <bluesabre> ah, gotcha
[00:07] <bluesabre> ochosi, as the other -settings guy, approve?
[00:08] <ochosi> bluesabre: +1
[00:11] <brainwash> can we cleanup the two theme patches somehow?
[00:11] <brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-settings/utopic/files/head:/debian/patches/
[00:12] <brainwash> one is for debian and the second one overrides it once again for (x)ubuntu
[00:13] <brainwash> but what are the upstream defaults for ThemeName and IconThemeName?
[00:22] <bluesabre> blank, but I think that means Xfce and Rodent, per mr_pouit's comment: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/xfce4-settings/utopic/view/head:/debian/patches/xubuntu_vanilla-session-themes.patch
[00:23] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/14.10.5
[00:24] <bluesabre> ^ now in utopic, next builds should build
[00:24] <bluesabre> taking a break, bbl
[00:28] <brainwash> ah nice
[00:28] <brainwash> and I can del https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/tooltip-size
[00:30] <brainwash> bluesabre: please change the status of https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10740 to fixed
[00:36] <brainwash> bluesabre: can compton located /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/compton.conf ?
[00:36] <brainwash> locate
[00:36] <Unit193> Aha, that makes more sense.  compton uses xdg_config_dirs.
[00:37] <brainwash> so.. it works?
[00:38] <Unit193> Not tested it, but I'd say so.
[00:38] <brainwash> even with the missing . ?
[00:39] <brainwash> should be a hidden config file I think
[00:39] <Unit193> Why?  It's not in ~/
[00:40] <brainwash> ok
[00:40] <brainwash> I had the skel scheme in mind
[00:40] <Unit193> https://github.com/chjj/compton/blob/master/src/compton.c#L5255
[00:41] <Unit193> const static char *config_filename = "/compton.conf";
[00:42] <brainwash> yea
[00:42] <Unit193> (I link to it because you should be able to read it far better than me. :) )
[00:44] <brainwash> so the next question is: does utopic still ship an outdated version of compton?
[00:44] <Unit193> Beta2, IIRC.
[00:44] <Unit193> !info compton utopic
[00:45] <brainwash> 2013-11-04
[00:45] <brainwash> old stuff
[00:45] <brainwash> :/
[00:45] <Unit193> Latest tagged.  We still aren't seeding it, just some handy config in case users want to use it.
[00:46] <brainwash> right, having a nice config helps
[00:46] <brainwash> but the user still has to deal with the outdated version of compton
[00:46] <brainwash> in case we recommend it
[00:47] <brainwash> recommend to try it -> tear free
[00:47]  * Unit193 shrugs, no newer releases.
[00:49] <brainwash> oh man, someone wants the fix for bug 1310264 to be backported to trusty
[00:50] <brainwash> can we do it?
[00:50] <Unit193> He can do it, but that's a backport of a UI change, soo.
[00:51] <brainwash> indeed, it's a ui change
[00:53] <brainwash> so the answer is NO
[06:34] <elfy> bluesabre: thanks :) 
[07:22] <brainwash> bluesabre: any plans to sru/backport bug 1310264 to trusty? if no, then we should unlink the report from the 14.04.x blueprint
[07:23] <brainwash> it's just a minimal ui change after all
[07:24] <brainwash> the now visible "settings" submenu entry
[07:26] <elfy> ochosi: I asked in -release for a build of xubuntu, off out for the day - if you get chance could you do the same at some point
[07:46] <ochosi> elfy: sure thing, thanks!
[07:50] <ochosi> and thanks for updating the folks on the ML
[08:52] <Unit193> ochosi: I see you hiding, https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce will have something for you in a minute.
[09:17] <ochosi> Unit193: a-ha a-ha, what is it?
[09:17] <ochosi> ah, the dashboard?
[09:18] <Unit193> Nothing new, and yeah, the only one that was built today. :D
[09:19] <ochosi> have you tested it?
[09:21] <Unit193> Test built. :P
[09:21] <ochosi> righty, i just tested it, it works ok
[09:21] <ochosi> i'll copy it over
[09:21] <ochosi> thanks!
[09:22] <Unit193> Sure thing, doc.
[09:22] <ochosi> i'm wondering btw whether we should drop the saucy versions that we still have
[09:22] <ochosi> since it's EOL and all
[09:23] <Unit193> Outdated and can't be updated?  I've been resisting nagging you and Sean about removing it, yeah.
[09:24] <ochosi> done
[09:25] <Unit193> Danke.
[09:26] <ochosi> well thank you
[09:26] <ochosi> i guess we should write a blog post about that PPA
[09:27] <Unit193> (FWIW, Sean has access to the git repo hosting it too, in case I'm busy, in the hospital, dead, etc, etc.)
[09:27] <Unit193> Sure.
[09:27] <ochosi> righty
[09:27] <ochosi> good to know, let's hope it doesn't come to any of that (incl. you being busy ;))
[09:29] <Unit193> Meh, hospital would actually mean less busy.  When I was in last I'm pretty sure I got a chance to update a couple packages. :P
[09:29] <ochosi> hehe
[09:29] <Unit193> By the looks of it, the PPA is fairly used.
[09:29] <ochosi> what looks?
[09:29] <ochosi> (have they introduced lp statistics and i didn't notice?)
[09:36] <brainwash> gdmflexiserver is gone in 14.04, but xfswitch-plugin and the panel action buttons still require it
[09:36] <brainwash> bug 1320560
[09:37] <brainwash> we could install a wrapper to mimic gdmflexiserver
[09:37] <brainwash> see comment #4
[09:38] <brainwash> fixing the actual source would be the better option, but can we just go gdmflexiserver -> dm-tool?
[09:38] <brainwash> dm-tool is lightdm only
[09:39] <brainwash> (I think)
[09:40] <brainwash> xscreensaver should be also affected
[09:41] <brainwash> if you click on "new login" while it locks the screen
[09:51] <ochosi> the thing is that if gnome2 had really gone away, we could just drop and forget about gdmflexiserver
[09:52] <ochosi> but now that there are forks of it that seem to stick around for now, alternatives to lightdm can still easily be used outside of gnome
[09:52] <ochosi> (from what i understand, the new gdm is tightly integrated in gnome3, so it's not as easy anymore to use that with a different DE)
[09:54] <brainwash> the problem is that there has to be some sort of script for user switching via display manager
[09:55] <brainwash> I'm not sure if we can just hardcode dm-tool
[09:55]  * ochosi replied
[09:56] <brainwash> I see
[09:56] <ochosi> i guess the really best way to fix this would be to implement display-manager awareness in xfce4-session
[09:56] <ochosi> and then just provide a commandline switch for that, so that e.g. panel-plugins can safely use that
[09:57] <brainwash> yes, this could be done via a "simple" bash script
[09:57] <brainwash> like xflock4
[09:57] <ochosi> implementing this sort of DM detection in every other place is silly
[09:57] <ochosi> gdmflexiserver was such a "simple" bash script iirc
[09:57] <brainwash> indeed
[09:57] <ochosi> despite its name it worked fine with other DMs than gdm
[09:57] <ochosi> (like the "flexi" part implies)
[09:57] <brainwash> that's the reason I don't like hardcoding dm-tool into the code
[09:58] <ochosi> i think for ubuntu it's ok
[09:58] <brainwash> I think so too
[09:58] <ochosi> i suggest you prep the patch since you already figured out everything
[09:59] <brainwash> ok
[09:59] <ochosi> maybe bluesabre can push it (whenever he's back online)
[10:00] <brainwash> xscreensaver is also affected, not sure about that one? just submit a patch and hope for the best?
[10:01] <brainwash> ah bug 1309917
[10:01] <brainwash> the maintainer already replied
[10:02] <brainwash> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/xscreensaver.git/tree/debian/xscreensaver-wrapper.sh
[10:02] <brainwash> ^ :D
[10:03] <ochosi> well the same goes for xscreensaver in fact
[10:03] <ochosi> patching it in ubuntu is the okay-shortcut for now
[11:03] <ochosi> wb bluesabre 
[11:04] <bluesabre> what'd I miss?
[11:04] <ochosi> one sec
[11:05] <ochosi> brainwash talked about this bug and i commented and if he comes up with a patch, he'll get in touch with you https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320560
[11:05] <ochosi> oh, and i asked in -release for a rebuild of our image
[11:05] <ochosi> but no response so far, stgraber seems to be afk
[11:06] <brainwash> and you missed to close https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10740 :P
[11:06] <bluesabre> brainwash: not a bug admin for xfce4-settings, can't close it
[11:07] <brainwash> but you can commit to trunk.. strange
[11:07] <bluesabre> two separate sites :)
[11:07] <ochosi> done
[11:07] <brainwash> ochosi: thank you
[11:07] <ochosi> np
[11:08] <bluesabre> re: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1310264 its a UI change, so nope
[11:08] <ochosi> (and it's easy enough for single users to fix themselves)
[11:08] <brainwash> can't this ui change be considered a bug fix?
[11:09] <ochosi> someone could write a blog post for xu.org about how to fix it though
[11:10] <bluesabre> maybe
[11:11] <brainwash> if the user has already messed with the menu file (menulibre), then he still won't be able to find the hidden entries
[11:11] <bluesabre> yup
[11:12] <brainwash> ok then
[11:13] <bluesabre> its still a pretty minor issue
[11:13] <ochosi> +1
[11:14] <bluesabre> ochosi: are we waiting for tonight to get our iso spun, or are we requesting an early respin?
[11:14] <brainwash> for advanced users it is, but new xubuntu users are getting confused by the missing entries
[11:14] <bluesabre> new users couldn't find menu items in the last menu either though... they still had to click on the settings manager icon
[11:15] <ochosi> bluesabre: i asked for a respin asap, but we'll see when it really happens...
[11:15] <bluesabre> ochosi: cool, thanks
[11:16] <brainwash> bluesabre: yeah, but now we do offer the search functionality of whiskermenu, and people expect to find everything with it :)
[11:16] <ochosi> they won't find files with it
[11:16] <ochosi> anyway, let it go
[11:17] <brainwash> hehe, I've already unlinked it from the 14.04.1 blueprint
[11:18] <ochosi> good
[11:18] <bluesabre> speaking of which
[11:18] <bluesabre> do we want to add the catfish shortcut?
[11:19] <ochosi> yup, that'd be nice
[11:19] <bluesabre> and what would be a good one?
[11:19] <brainwash> a general keyboard shortcut?
[11:20] <brainwash> global
[11:20] <ochosi> bluesabre: problem is "locate" or "find" might be ambiguous
[11:20] <bluesabre> as in, type into whiskermenu "find donuts" and catfish loads and immediately starts to search
[11:20] <ochosi> and "search" doesn't really cut it imo
[11:21] <bluesabre> though it might be more interested in worms or grubs
[11:21] <ochosi> maybe "ok catfish"
[11:21] <ochosi> ah well, let's go for "find". makes the most sense
[11:23] <bluesabre> brainwash: if you're running utopic and have catfish 1.2... like this: http://i.imgur.com/rCFuosC.png
[11:25] <brainwash> makes sense to add something like that
[11:26] <brainwash> "!f" would be too simple / not obvious enough, right?
[11:27] <ochosi> i think it might not be very discoverable either way, but "find" makes it sound very natural
[11:27] <elfy> asked -release re beta build again 
[11:28] <ochosi> and people who frequently use it can change the shortcut easily
[11:28] <bluesabre> elfy: thanks
[11:28] <ochosi> elfy: i pinged stgraber earlier, but he doesn't seem to be about
[11:28] <elfy> bluesabre: as far as you know there's nothing else that would stop it building?
[11:28] <bluesabre> that's the only thing
[11:29] <elfy> ochosi: yea - I think he's -5 or 6 hours
[11:29] <bluesabre> if it fails this time, I'd be shocked
[11:30] <elfy> why there's only one person who can get the build running I don't know - but I bet it'd get done for ubuntu earlier
[11:30] <ochosi> possible
[11:36] <elfy> ochosi: so you got any plans/idea for what we should do if the respin is late tonight - given that release is supposed to be tomorrow? 
[11:36] <elfy> knome was talking yesterday about releasing late - I'm not worried if we do or don't
[11:38] <bluesabre> I'll do as much iso testing as I am able tonight
[11:39] <elfy> bluesabre: yea - that relies on us gettting something to test :)
[11:39] <bluesabre> yup
[11:40] <elfy> I'll not be able to do hardware tests in time for tomorrow, be vm only
[11:40] <bluesabre> I get home when canonical starts going to bed, so I should be in the clear
[11:40] <elfy> :)
[11:40] <elfy> stgraber appeared mid-afternoon my time yesterday, would guess same today
[11:41] <bluesabre> ochosi: want to draft the release notes today, or is that usually somebody else?
[11:42] <ochosi> bluesabre: not sure we have a definitive person who is responsible for the release notes
[11:42] <bluesabre> (and then I can review and add things tonight)
[11:42] <bluesabre> I see
[11:42] <ochosi> actually it might be good if >1 people could work on it
[11:42] <bluesabre> yeah
[11:42] <ochosi> otherwise things might be overlooked
[11:42] <elfy> nope - generally it was knome and me previously - better to whack it on a pad or something so everyone can get to it 
[11:43] <bluesabre> good idea
[11:43] <ochosi> http://pad.ubuntu.com/S030Pt7VHy
[11:43] <elfy> previoulsy we've mostly built it off of old ones
[11:43] <ochosi> yeah, feel free to paste in a skeleton
[11:47] <elfy> bbl
[11:50] <brainwash> Unit193: are you going to re-include 02-remove-unused-maximize-button.patch (xfwm4, not applied upstream)
[11:51] <brainwash> not sure if you've already answered this question
[11:52] <ochosi> bluesabre, elfy: i gotta run now, but i'll look at the release notes again a little later in the day
[11:52] <bluesabre> ok, I'm just adding notes for now which can be used to put things together
[11:52] <ochosi> yup, sounds good
[11:52] <ochosi> ttyl
[11:57] <Unit193> Don't know why I thought it was no longer needed, I normally check those well.  I would since it's my mistake, but it is easier for Sean.  Anyway, if not I'll get to it a bit later today.
[11:58] <bluesabre> Unit193: you know where to find such tools... how can I search for what I've uploaded to utopic?
[11:59] <brainwash> Unit193: alright
[11:59] <Unit193> brainwash: Sorry.
[11:59] <brainwash> nobody would have noticed it :P
[12:01] <Unit193> bluesabre: And I know how to find what packages have been sponsored for you, but not what you've uploaded since I can't do that.
[12:01] <bluesabre> ah, gotcha
[12:01] <bluesabre> I think I've got nearly everything on the pad now
[12:04] <bluesabre> feel free to add notes for the packages if there is anything that makes them special :)
[12:08] <bluesabre> bbl
[13:22] <Unit193> bluesabre: If you want to grab+edit or whatever, it's uploaded.
[14:13] <brainwash> anyone here using a dual monitor setup? if yes, please check if pkexec also triggers bug 152855
[14:14] <brainwash> ancient bug :/
[14:20] <elfy> Unit193: I suppose we need to get a core wiki page sorted for core rather than your one
[14:20] <ochosi> elfy: rebuild kicked off by stgraber
[14:22] <elfy> saw - didn't realise we could do that when there's not one there at all
[14:23] <elfy> ochosi: we couldn't have done that, nothing to select to rebuild on the beta page
[14:23] <ochosi> so a question of rights then i guess
[14:23] <elfy> you have them I think 
[14:23] <elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds
[14:24] <elfy> that's the dailies - once you've logged in do you see what I see? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-270814-152435.php
[14:24] <elfy> eg the admin bit at the bottom?
[14:28] <elfy> Unit193: - draft xubuntu minimal page on xubuntu.org done
[14:33] <elfy> ochosi: did a bit with the beta pad too
[14:53] <elfy> and ... we've got some images to test now :p
[14:54] <slickymasterWork> yeaps :)
[14:54]  * slickymasterWork will comply with what is promised
[15:34] <elfy> knome: not sure who can access the social stuff - but if you can, can you get beta testing on there 
[15:34]  * elfy vaguely remembers pleia2 being afk 
[15:43] <slickymasterWork> brainwash: you mean in relation to the at-spi2-core (Ubuntu) package?
[15:49] <elfy> paulw2u appears on the tracker - that's one I can generally rely on to turn up :)
[17:25] <elfy> ochosi Unit193 - core is now available on the tracker for testing
[17:37] <pleia2> elfy: done
[17:38] <elfy> pleia2: awesome thanks - wasn't sure if you were about or not :)
[17:38] <pleia2> chaos day, have work and flight later :)
[17:38] <elfy> :)
[17:39]  * elfy had that for a while - 2 machines doing b tests - coudln't remember which was doing 32 and which 64 :p
[17:42]  * elfy wanders away from the tracker now
[17:42] <pleia2> hehe
[17:43] <elfy> I'm just glad we don't have alternates to test ;)
[17:56] <ochosi> elfy: i'm around now
[17:58] <ochosi> nope, i don't see that admin bit there
[17:59] <ochosi> oh, indeed, now i see it
[17:59] <ochosi> weird, when removing the filters (before i saw all products) it suddenly appeared
[17:59] <ochosi> wasn't there before
[18:00] <ochosi> that's actually quite handy that we can respin ourselves now
[18:00] <elfy> ok - cool, so to request a rebuild for 64 say, select the box next to it - then in the bottom request it :)
[18:00] <elfy> when we're ready to release - select then mark as ready
[18:01] <elfy> back in an hour ish
[18:02] <elfy> just don't practise today :p
[18:02] <ochosi> hehe
[18:02] <ochosi> ok
[18:02] <ochosi> ttyl
[18:49] <Unit193> Dang man, we have a lot of hardly started languages in the docs.  Just checked, each and every one of them validates still. \o/
[19:09] <elfy> ochosi: back for a bit if you need anything 
[19:10] <Unit193> elfy: Hellos.
[19:12] <elfy> hi Unit193 
[19:28] <elfy> wb Luyin :)
[19:29] <Luyin> thx elfy 
[19:29] <Luyin> I'm just trying to find my way through all these websites
[19:29] <elfy> Luyin: if you've got time and can do a test install - vm's fine - we're testing the beta right now
[19:30] <elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/322/builds
[19:31] <brainwash> elfy: this error bug 1359439 ?
[19:33] <brainwash> most likely
[19:33] <Luyin> ok, I'm on it elfy 
[19:33] <Luyin> just give me a sec to find myself around there
[19:33] <elfy> ok ... so that's random brainwash - what are you talking about :)
[19:33] <elfy> Luyin: okey doke - I'm about for a while if you need anything 
[19:33] <brainwash> elfy: your report "mage fails to start try/install screen" :P
[19:33] <brainwash> Image
[19:34] <elfy> oic - that makes more sense now :)
[19:34] <Luyin> elfy: the xubuntu desktop at the bottom of the page?
[19:34] <elfy> possible - I'm not that worried about it tbh brainwash - more likely to be sorted by a ubuntu type person 
[19:35] <elfy> Luyin: yep :)
[19:35] <Luyin> ok, which one? or just both?
[19:35] <elfy> Luyin: there are 5 tests in each - choose one arch and go for it :)
[19:35] <Luyin> okay, I'll take the 64bit one
[19:36] <elfy> anything that you do will have my gratitude :)
[19:36] <Luyin> hehe
[19:37]  * elfy wonders what lxpolkit actually is and if it's what it sounds like whether we could have similar
[19:38] <brainwash> that's a random thought
[19:39] <elfy> not *completely* random - saw mention of it in -quality :p
[19:39] <brainwash> we already use gnome's polkit auth agent I think
[19:40] <elfy> aah - okey doke - just wondering :)
[19:40] <Luyin> elfy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Walkthrough here it says one should get the iso via TestDrive, but I'm downloading it via browser atm, is that correct?
[19:40] <brainwash> elfy: yes, it's policykit-1-gnome
[19:40] <elfy> Luyin: you can use testdrive - but if you know you're way around a vm then it's not really needed - and in that case download however you want
[19:41] <Luyin> okay ^^
[19:41]  * Unit193 ponders why it'd say to use testdrive.
[19:41] <brainwash> elfy: luckily we don't hate gnome as much as LXDE does :)
[19:41] <elfy> Luyin: once you've got it - you can use zsync to update it if you want to not download the whole thing everytime - depends who long between test
[19:42] <elfy> Unit193: check the wiki page last edited by ;)
[19:42] <Unit193> elfy: I didn't have to.
[19:42] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[19:42]  * elfy has no idea what testdrive even looks like 
[19:43] <Unit193> Erm, requirements?  Well then.
[19:43] <elfy> :)
[19:44] <Unit193> Guess we don't support qemu, kvm, or VMware's.
[19:44] <elfy> if I was interested enough I could rip that up and start again
[19:46] <Luyin> hmm, seems my virtualbox is only able to run 32bit kernels.
[19:47] <elfy> do 32 bit then :)
[19:48] <elfy> brainwash: thanks 
[20:02] <Luyin> ok, it's getting interesting :D
[20:03] <Unit193> elfy: I presume you didn't see my question the other day.  Utopic seem a bit slower to you than Trusty?
[20:04] <elfy> Unit193: nope didn't notice that - sorry. It *seems* a bit slower sometimes if I've booted systemd 
[20:04] <Unit193> Hrm.
[20:04] <elfy> but generally I don't notice much with upstart
[20:04] <elfy> unless I've been using vbox - then everything seems a lot slower than it did using it in trusty or saucy
[20:06] <Unit193> systemd 214 vs systemd 214, seems to hang a couple seconds at times.
[20:07] <brainwash> 214?
[20:10] <Luyin> elfy: I've got a question about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware this. it says one should edit the top table – but there's no button or similar to click where I can edit anything. or am I missing something?
[20:11] <Luyin> and something else: I chose the "manual partition"-version for testing. so I guess I'm allowed to partition myself in order to finish the test?
[20:11] <elfy> Luyin: none of that's really all that important tbh /Hardware 
[20:12] <elfy> yep - you can choose the partitions yourself for that test
[20:13] <elfy> I tend to do it in this order, but then I tend to do the whole lot - whole disk, resize, then manual on one of the resized partitions
[20:13] <Luyin> you're kidding? when I help, I'm doing it thoroughly :P
[20:13] <elfy> Luyin: you won't see me on that list and I've been doing this for years 
[20:13] <Luyin> okay, lol
[20:14] <elfy> you'll not find balloons on there either and he's the Canonical Community QA guy 
[20:14] <elfy> so - you can do it if you want - but quite frankly - getting more than a couple of people testing is a LOT more important to me :)
[20:15] <Luyin> hehe okay
[20:16]  * elfy really should write a more detailed QA procedure for us rather than have to send people to ubuntu pages and then it not be *quite* what we want
[20:18] <Unit193> brainwash: What about it?
[20:18] <brainwash> Unit193: ubuntu is stuck with 208, isn't it?
[20:18] <Unit193> elfy: "core is now available on the tracker for testing" does that mean do it right now?
[20:19] <Unit193> brainwash: Yep, in utopic at least, FF and all.
[20:20] <brainwash> still don't like to boot with systemd.. it feels like voodo magic :)
[20:20] <elfy> Unit193: no - I was just letting you and ochosi know where we are :)
[20:20] <elfy> there's not much chance of me asking anyone to do that right at the moment :p
[20:20] <Unit193> brainwash: Heh, yeeeah.  I'm not sure if I like it or greatly dislike it, it's hard to tell as some of the features are nice, and some really bad.
[20:20] <Unit193> elfy: OK, great then!
[20:21] <brainwash> Unit193: exactly
[20:21] <Unit193> brainwash: systemd-analyze, the information it keeps per service, and some of that is dang nice, others not so much.
[20:33] <elfy> I wish I got the desktop as quickly as systemd says it takes :p
[20:33] <Unit193> Hah. :P
[20:33] <Unit193> elfy: Try 214! :P
[20:33] <elfy> I think I boot to desktop in about 40-50s
[20:34] <elfy> systemd ~25s
[20:35] <elfy> Unit193: did you look at the core draft on xubuntu.org yet?
[20:35] <elfy> need to get that sorted before we call 
[20:35] <elfy> though I could do it in the mail if necessary
[20:37] <knome> re: release notes, i think the release team should generally take the lead on that, especially since the current setup is (by design): project lead, one person who's on top of development, one person who's on top of QA/testing/Bugs
[20:37] <knome> elfy, i can do twitter..
[20:38] <elfy> ta
[20:38] <knome> what do you want in there? probably a certain mail mentioned?
[20:38] <Unit193> elfy: Oh, we even want to mention the second one?  OK, works for me.  Seems to be about what I wrote up too.  Perhaps it'd be useful to link to http://docs.xubuntu.org/1404/appendix-packages.html ?
[20:38] <knome> oh, hmm, somebody tweeted
[20:38] <elfy> knome: pleia2 did do something though - not checked what yet
[20:39] <elfy> Unit193: it was a draft - I just copied what you wrote in yours and tacked on testing :p
[20:39] <knome> yep, she's definitely tweeted 3h ago
[20:39] <elfy> cool - thanks knome 
[20:39] <knome> np
[20:40] <knome> we definitely need to involve the "other" social media admins more on this channel
[20:40] <elfy> Unit193: yea - agreed to adding that to the page 
[20:40] <knome> we have *at least* pleia2 + 1 other person on each outlet
[20:40] <elfy> knome: I'm glad that doesn't involve me :p
[20:40] <ochosi> elfy: why do the release notes say "xfwm4 4.12"?
[20:40] <Unit193> elfy: Right, sounds good to me.  Figured it might be, kind of wrote it last cycle precisely for xubuntu-core.
[20:40] <knome> elfy, heh, well it should make your work easier :)
[20:41] <elfy> ochosi: was just picking up information from bluesabre's list 
[20:41] <Unit193> ochosi: I have no idea if you're interested, but you are not identified.
[20:41] <ochosi> elfy: says 4.11.2 there though :)
[20:41] <ochosi> Unit193: ah, thanks
[20:41] <elfy> fat finger syndrome then I suspect ochosi :)
[20:42] <ochosi> lol
[20:42] <elfy> ochosi: and are we just going to do a release announcement or both? 
[20:42] <knome> elfy, holstein is an admin of the FB group..
[20:42] <ochosi> elfy: both?
[20:43] <elfy> knome: orite - useful to know :)
[20:43] <knome> yep, will ask him to join this channel the next time i see him active (and remember)
[20:43] <elfy> ochosi: suits me - but I'll not be about morning tomorrow
[20:43] <elfy> knome: he is now 
[20:44] <ochosi> elfy: no, my question was what do you mean with a release announcement *or both* ?
[20:44] <elfy> lol - sorry - announcement is on xubuntu.org release notes are on ubuntu wiki
[20:44] <ochosi> oh right
[20:44] <ochosi> well i'd probably do both
[20:45] <elfy> ok - well I'll ensure that the wiki one is ok by tomorrow afternoon
[20:45] <knome> announcement has generally been the non-technical one, notes the more technical one; and usually useful for anything else than point releases at least
[20:46] <elfy> wb boss :p
[20:46] <elfy> knome: yep
[20:48] <ochosi> knome: if you wanna help us move along a bit, that'd be much appreciated: http://pad.ubuntu.com/S030Pt7VHy
[20:50] <knome> hrrhrr
[20:52] <knome> what are we drafting? the notes or the announcement or both?
[20:54] <ochosi> i guess both
[20:55] <ochosi> bluesabre started by listing app updates
[20:55] <ochosi> and elfy added a skeleton
[20:55] <ochosi> not sure what for though tbh :)
[20:55] <elfy> I'll not bother again then
[20:56] <knome> lol
[20:56] <knome> that skeleton is okay though :P
[20:57] <ochosi> elfy: why? i think it's nice, i'm just not experienced enough with this stuff :)
[20:58] <elfy> ochosi: well basically it's a whole lot easier doing it before by a day than by 5 minutes ... 
[20:58] <ochosi> right, i guess so
[21:01] <ochosi> what the heck, bluebrain??
[21:01] <Luyin> puh, finally, test is nearly done
[21:01] <elfy> Luyin: \o/
[21:02] <brainwash> ochosi: that's me... surprise
[21:02] <knome> ochosi, watch your language, sir :P
[21:03]  * ochosi will remember to never say "bluebrain" again to an old lady
[21:03] <Luyin> ok, test passed. and I'm off to bed ;)
[21:03] <brainwash> Luyin: good night
[21:04] <elfy> Luyin: don't forget to report it ;)
[21:04] <elfy> and thanks :)
[21:05] <Luyin> elfy: done ;) good night to all of you!
[21:05] <elfy> night :)
[21:05] <Luyin> elfy: might do the next one tomorrow evening if I can make it
[21:07] <knome> night and thanks Luyin 
[21:07] <elfy> Luyin: if we've had sufficient results by then we'll be marking it ready - so no testing, but dailies will start again until the next beta 
[21:07] <Luyin> yw
[21:08] <Unit193> bluebrain?
[21:08] <elfy> we've done that :p
[21:09] <elfy> Unit193: I added that table link - and I removed the second command line install bit
[21:09] <elfy> the testcase is just the first 
[21:09] <Unit193> OK, whatever works best for you.
[21:09] <Unit193> Sounds good though.
[21:11] <elfy> oooh - didn't know alt-tab is clickable ... 
[21:12] <Unit193> Mhmm, nice shiny alt+tab from ochosi, been using it since slightly before trusty was released.
[21:12] <Unit193> (PPA I made, of course.)
[21:15] <knome> elfy, i'm waiting you to bombard the known issues section :P
[21:16] <elfy> I've not noticed very much to be honest - certainly not much in the way of Xubuntu specific stuff we need to make people aware off
[21:16] <elfy> which is the result of hardly any reporting of tests
[21:17] <knome> boo
[21:17] <ochosi> or a very stable beta ;)
[21:17] <Unit193> FWIW, I think more of us are activly using utopic than before.
[21:17] <knome> do we carry bugs from 14.04 release?
[21:17] <ochosi> +1
[21:17] <ochosi> and we've been trying to sort most pressing bugs in 14.04.1
[21:18] <ochosi> (and the indicators haven't changed their API [yet])
[21:18] <Unit193> Hah, no that waits until after FF.
[21:18] <brainwash> and wait until xorg 1.16 lands (FFe)
[21:19] <Unit193> elfy: At least this is earlier than I normally update, and I've moved 3 computers (netbook counts, right?) to utopic.  It's more of a daily/weekly use than a "report test complete" type of thing though.
[21:19] <elfy> there is 1 bug reported against xubuntu and utopic bug 1330171 that I can find
[21:19] <elfy> hardly worth noting ;)
[21:19] <ochosi> yeah, slideshow hasn't even been updated yet
[21:20] <elfy> Unit193: yea - cadence/exploratory testing - that's fine, if you happen to use something - check the package testcase
[21:20] <elfy> ochosi: yep
[21:23] <knome> elfy, taking on that bug.
[21:34] <elfy> right I've got to go - I'll catch up in the morning - night all 
[21:34] <Unit193> G'night.
[21:35] <knome> night elfy, and thanks :)
[21:35] <ochosi> night elfy and thanks for your help!
[21:36] <elfy> ochosi knome - in the pad I linked to the minimal install draft on xubuntu.org - it's only a simple page - be good to publish that asap - I'll be calling for testing as soon as beta is released
[21:36] <elfy> anyway - night :)
[21:53] <Unit193> Logan_: Pingalinga?
[22:15] <knome> time to go to bed. nighty!
[22:22] <ochosi> night knome 
[22:23] <Unit193> bluesabre: Why you no MOTU??  I need one! :P
[23:16] <bluesabre> Unit193: D:
[23:21] <ochosi> hey bluesabre 
[23:21] <ochosi> might wanna give the release notes a read
[23:22] <bluesabre> looking over them now
[23:22] <bluesabre> er, was
[23:22] <bluesabre> now disconnected
[23:22]  * bluesabre searches for link
[23:22] <bluesabre> and I'm back
[23:22] <Unit193> bluesabre: So, what'd you decide on the xfpm-plugins/lxpanel stuff?  Going to mirror for the daily ppa, and also wondering how you resolved it. :D
[23:23] <Unit193> bluesabre: also, xfwm that contains brainwash's patch is in the normal place, if you want to look and decide if you like it.
[23:23] <bluesabre> Aren't we unable to resolve until lxpanel hits the archive?
[23:23] <Unit193> Sure, but still have to fix the hard dep on xfce4-panel.
[23:23] <bluesabre> oh right
[23:24] <Unit193> :D
[23:24] <bluesabre> aaaand, brainwash's patch..?
[23:27] <Unit193> From before, no maximize if no maximize.
[23:27] <Unit193> :D
[23:27] <bluesabre> oh right
[23:28] <bluesabre> ochosi: no known issues, yet?
[23:28] <ochosi> yup
[23:28] <bluesabre> and maybe add a note with the xchat removal "If you need to reach the Xubuntu team, go to xubuntu.org/irc"?
[23:28] <bluesabre> or smth
[23:29] <bluesabre> maybe not
[23:29] <bluesabre> :D
[23:29] <ochosi> well, or use pidgin ;)
[23:29] <ochosi> btw, apt-offline doesn't really seem to be such a terribly new version
[23:29] <Unit193> /kban ochosi no
[23:30] <ochosi> or maybe i misread, but it seemed like nothing spectacular was going on there
[23:30] <bluesabre> ochosi: well, the difference is that it actually works now
[23:30] <Unit193> ochosi: The point is, it works whereas trusty doesn't.
[23:30] <ochosi> oh
[23:30] <ochosi> list that in bug fixes then please
[23:30]  * bluesabre assigns to Unit193
[23:30] <ochosi> Unit193: http://pad.ubuntu.com/S030Pt7VHy
[23:30] <Unit193> Actually a bit busy, but sure later.
[23:30] <bluesabre> k
[23:30] <bluesabre> ochosi: how long are you around?
[23:31] <ochosi> not very much longer
[23:31] <ochosi> why, what's up?
[23:31] <bluesabre> stick around for a few, I can actually test xfpm now
[23:31] <ochosi> ah
[23:31] <ochosi> okeydokey
[23:33] <bluesabre> ok
[23:33] <bluesabre> unknown state is now a dead mouse
[23:33] <bluesabre> which is better
[23:34] <ochosi> dead mouse?
[23:34] <ochosi> you mean with an empty progressbar
[23:34] <bluesabre> yes
[23:34] <ochosi> ok
[23:34] <bluesabre> 1px red tick at the bottom
[23:34] <ochosi> yeah, that's the minimum load
[23:35] <ochosi> i didn't want it to ever be actually just empty
[23:35] <ochosi> otherwise ppl might wonder what that is
[23:35] <bluesabre> right, makes sense
[23:36] <bluesabre> awesome, we already have 5/5 on both arch
[23:36] <bluesabre> good job guys!
[23:37] <ochosi> http://dpaste.com/11E7FJJ
[23:37] <ochosi> apply that pls ^
[23:38] <ochosi> and if that works, i'll reward you with a blue (?) hovering on top of your mouse ;)
[23:44] <bluesabre> building now
[23:44] <bluesabre> prefix=/usr, right?
[23:45] <Unit193> Naaaah, /libexec/usr/
[23:45] <ochosi> yup
[23:45] <Unit193> :---D
[23:47] <bluesabre> ochosi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8163876/
[23:47] <ochosi> argh
[23:47] <ochosi> typo
[23:47] <ochosi> UNKNOWN
[23:47] <ochosi> not UKNOWN
[23:47] <bluesabre> argh!
[23:50] <bluesabre> fixed typo, looks the same
[23:50] <ochosi> right, that's what i was afraid would happen :s
[23:50] <ochosi> somehow that check doesn't work
[23:50] <ochosi> and i don't get why
[23:52] <ochosi> since i can't debug, mind to add a debug message there and print the state?
[23:53] <ochosi> iirc 0 is UNKNOWN
[23:55] <bluesabre> ochosi: any idea where to see g_prints for panel plugins?
[23:55] <ochosi> yeah, you have to start the panel with debug mode
[23:55] <ochosi> one sec
[23:56] <ochosi> PANEL_DEBUG=1 xfce4-panel
[23:58] <bluesabre> ok, next question, what do you use for printing debug msgs?
[23:58] <bluesabre> g_print goes to the void
[23:58] <ochosi> g_warning usually