[00:02] <nhaines> I'm much happier with Ubuntu than OS X.  At least their trackpads make me want to punch a kitten.
[00:05] <nhaines> Akiva-Thinkpad: Linux is mentioned on the "About > About Ubuntu" page.  :)
[00:06] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nhaines, gnu/linux :P
[00:06] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ?
[00:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nhaines, I heard the thinkpads are bringing the buttons back
[00:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> modest improvement from lenovo
[00:08] <nhaines> I'm stuck on HP hardware.  But I am quite happy with it.
[00:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> If it has a trackpoint; it wins ish
[00:10] <nhaines> I could be happy with an optional trackpad.
[00:21] <nhaines> Also by trackpad I mean trackpoint.
[00:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nhaines, ah
[00:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yah trackpad; I just disable them
[00:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> thumb pains galore
[00:33] <nhaines> It's my favorite input device outside of a mouse.  I just need it to be well designed.
[01:39] <Drew_Neilson> I'm thinking about buying a Ubuntu Touch-powered phone when they come out.  I don't like how today's smartphones don't have much longevity, i.e. they are designed to be replaced every 2-3 years.  Will Ubuntu phones be different, i.e. I'll be able to keep using the same phone for several years--perhaps five--before the OS starts to require newer hardware?
[01:42] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: it's up to phone manufacturers to decide how long their hardware will be supported, really.
[01:43] <Drew_Neilson> dobey but Canonical is the one who writes the OS, so it's their software
[01:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, I understand that updates will be more rolling
[01:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, so security updates for sure
[01:45] <Drew_Neilson> Akiva-Thinkpad that's probably the most important type of update, security updates
[01:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, Agreed
[01:46] <Drew_Neilson> but what about OS feature updates?
[01:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, sec; I am speaking with a developer in another channel
[01:46] <Drew_Neilson> ok
[01:48] <dobey> well, the galaxy nexus is not supported any longer, nor is the 2012 nexus 7
[01:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dobey, but supported means, these are no longer developer phones
[01:49] <Drew_Neilson> why not?
[01:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, because they don't fit the scope of what is needed as a developers platform
[01:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> they were designed for android and were widely available; that is why they were initially used.
[01:50] <Drew_Neilson> right, a developer's phone is not necessarily the same thing as a consumer's phone
[01:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ^
[01:50] <dobey> no, they are no longer supported, because the hardware isn't no longer tenable to support
[01:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dobey, right, because they are fundamently android phones.
[01:51] <dobey> no
[01:51] <Drew_Neilson> dobey why?
[01:51] <dobey> Akiva-Thinkpad: the nexus 4, 2013 nexus 7, and nexus 10 are all "fundamentally android devices" too, by that argument, and they are the official support list at the moment
[01:52] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dobey, you havnt kept up; the devs are talking about moving away from the nexus 4
[01:52] <dobey> lol
[01:52] <Akiva-Thinkpad> it was mentioned by mhall on one of the onair
[01:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> the question was posed whether they were going to stay on the nexus 4 etc for development, and the engineer team said that they have been speaking internally about it already, and looking towards the next platform they are going to use.
[01:54] <dobey> that doesn't mean n4 is about to be dropped
[01:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dobey, But it does mean there is a big difference between a developer platform and a consumer phone
[01:55] <dobey> the only difference is that canonical doesn't make hardware, and thus does not control the hardware.
[01:55] <someone121231> hello
[01:56] <someone121231> anybody help?
[01:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> someone121231, hello
[01:56] <Drew_Neilson> Right, and what i'd like to know is how long will a new consumer phone, such as one from BQ or Meizu, be supported and able to receive OS feature updates, as opposed to security updates only?
[01:56] <dobey> as long as the drivers work, the hardware itself is mostly meaningless
[01:56] <someone121231> hello! I have a question about Hammerhead
[01:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dobey, they have some control; remember; they had something like 16 manufacturers interested, and they just chose two to work with.
[01:56] <someone121231> I've been looking for the image for manual installation, but I couldn't find it (still Hammerhead)
[01:57] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: i presume that will depend on whatever the contract states, and it will not be longer than reasonable expectations of the manufacturer to be supporting their hardware
[01:57] <someone121231> So... where can I find it?
[01:57] <dobey> !devices | someone121231
[01:57] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, I am a bit more optimistic, however dobey is right in that time will tell.
[01:58] <Drew_Neilson> Will it be up to OEMs to deliver OS updates, or will OS updates come straight from Canonical?
[01:59] <someone121231> The Hammerhead is listed, but I couldn't find the IMG/zip file for manual installation. My connection is quite bad and I'm probably going to reinstall it a few times, so I don't wanna wait for it to download each time...
[01:59] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: ubuntu is built in such a way to allow oem/carrier customizations, so as i said, it will depend on whatever the business contracts state
[02:00] <dobey> someone121231: phablet-flash caches in your home directory before pushing it onto the device
[02:00] <someone121231> Thank you :)
[02:01] <Drew_Neilson> dobey but OEM and carrier customizations are limited to scopes, as opposed to deeper OS stuff, right?
[02:01] <dobey> where exactly, i don't recall though
[02:02] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: no. default apps, some settings, etc… can be customized
[02:03] <Drew_Neilson> okay but Canonical isn't going to allow the same kinds of customizations that lead to fragmentation in the Android world, right?
[02:07] <dobey> i'm not sure what you're asking exactly. anyone can host a server to provide images for a device. i don't know where images for the oem/carrier-specific builds will be hosted.
[02:08] <dobey> but i would not expect to see disruptive chagnes to UX happening on stable releases, just the same as we aren't shipping unity8 on ubuntu 12.04 or 14.04, as the default interface.
[02:10] <mhall119> Drew_Neilson: our goal is to make it so the platform and shell are consistent across all Ubuntu phones
[02:11] <Drew_Neilson> I was just hoping that the upcoming Ubuntu-powered phones will be more like PCs in that you can continue to receive OS updates for desktops and laptops for several years, and I was wondering whether updates will come directly from Canonical (as updates to iOS come directly from Apple and, afaik, can be installed quickly and easily)
[02:13] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, if you want to try something hard, try creating a custom build image of ubuntu touch on an unsupported phone.
[02:14] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: unfortunately, phones aren't PCs. the hardware is much less open, and much more difficult to support.
[02:15] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: but if we can get phones to be more open, and end up creating something like the Ubuntu Edge (the nexus line for ubuntu), then maybe it could also get some sort of LTS badge
[02:15] <Drew_Neilson> Well the real question comes down to, how long will a BQ or Meizu phone continue to be listed as "supported" (I recall that it was said earlier that that is determined by contracts between Canonical and OEMs/carriers)
[02:16] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: the iOS devices can do it, because Apple owns the entire stack. likewise, the Nexus devices get better support from Google, than random android phones do
[02:16] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, Again I heard that it would be more rolling than android.
[02:16] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: that's a question to ask Bq or Meizu
[02:17] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Drew_Neilson, are you interested par chance to contribute to ubuntu touch? RTM is coming up, and having testers/bug reporters are super helpful
[02:18] <Drew_Neilson> Akiva-Thinkpad I'm not sure what you mean by "rolling".  As I understand it, "rolling" means more frequent, smaller updates rather than "big bang" updates like how Microsoft used to update Windows (Windows XP in 2001, Vista in 2006, 7 in 2009... you get the idea)
[02:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yep
[02:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> thats what I understand from the grapevine
[02:19] <Drew_Neilson> "big bang" updates where they don't come around often, but when they do, everything changes
[02:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> like android
[02:20] <dobey> "rolling updates" is a bit of a misnomer here
[02:21] <Drew_Neilson> dobey what do you mean
[02:21] <dobey> i mean, they aren't "rolling updates"
[02:22] <Drew_Neilson> what are they?
[02:22] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dobey, oh thats actually a good point
[02:22] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yah thats my bad
[02:22] <Akiva-Thinkpad> this isnt arch
[02:22] <dobey> it has nothing to do with arch or not
[02:22] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dobey, arch is a roling release
[02:23] <Akiva-Thinkpad> rolling release*
[02:23] <dobey> arch is just arch
[02:23] <Akiva-Thinkpad> huh... okay
[02:23] <dobey> it's no more a rolling release than debian
[02:23] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Debian stable or unstable?
[02:23] <dobey> experimental
[02:24]  * Akiva-Thinkpad tries to avoid... internet fight
[02:24] <dobey> but what i mean, is i wouldn't expect daily image updates for a supported release of ubuntu on a phone that's released as a retail consumer device
[02:24] <Akiva-Thinkpad> must.... get.... to doing productive things....
[02:26] <Drew_Neilson> I probably should have said earlier, that I'm not a developer, just a consumer, and heck, I've never even owned a smartphone before, but I intend to buy one, and there are things that make me stop and pause before buying an iPhone or a Nexus... like the iPhone doesn't have a removable battery, and Google doesn't police the Google Play store like Apple polices theirs
[02:26] <dobey> i wouldn't worry about the removable battery
[02:27] <dobey> you shouldn't need to remove the battery for like 5 years anyway, unless something seriously bad goes wrong
[02:27] <dobey> the nexus phones don't really have removable batteries either
[02:28] <dobey> (and the iphone battery can in fact, be removed, just not easily)
[02:28] <Drew_Neilson> I want to be free to do things like stream music, watch YouTube videos, take pictures and videos and upload them to Facebook, ... you know, normal stuff people do... without worrying about the battery dying before I go to bed
[02:28] <Drew_Neilson> and not just on my first day of owning it, but also three years later
[02:29] <Drew_Neilson> and also, security issues with Android concern me too
[02:30] <Drew_Neilson> and I wish that Google would police the Google Play store to stop malware like Apple polices their app store
[02:32] <Drew_Neilson> what do you think about those things?
[02:34] <dobey> i think if you're worried about battery usage, you should probably buy additional chargers and keep them where you need them most; like in your car and for your nightstand next to the bed. constant usage will kill battery life, especially when using the radio.
[02:35] <dobey> and yes, security is a constant problem
[02:35] <Drew_Neilson> So I've found flaws with BOTH of the major platforms
[02:35] <dobey> and i don't think there's anything i can do about the google play store, but it's my understanding that future versions of android will allow less of the junk that a lot of the broken apps are doing
[02:35] <dobey> finding flaws in anything is not hard :)
[02:36] <Drew_Neilson> well, I hope that Canonical will police their app store to prevent malware from getting on there
[02:36] <Drew_Neilson> and I know that BQ has phones with removable batteries, right?
[02:37] <dobey> it's not so much about policing the store, as restricting what apps can do on the phone
[02:37] <dobey> ubuntu has an app lifecycle policy similar to what ios has
[02:38] <dobey> i don't know what bq does with regards to batteries
[02:38] <dobey> i don't live in spain :)
[02:38] <Drew_Neilson> what is an app lifecycle?
[02:38] <dobey> the lifetime of the application's process
[02:39] <dobey> if the app is not in the foreground, then it won't necessarily be doing anything
[02:39] <dobey> so apps can't have a bunch of background processes running all the time adding a million icons to the top panel, like in android
[02:40] <Drew_Neilson> that sounds like a good thing
[02:41] <Drew_Neilson> well but somehow, Apple is able to do a better job keeping malware off of the iOS app store than Google does with Google Play.
[02:42] <Drew_Neilson> at least, that seems to be the general consensus
[02:43] <Drew_Neilson> and I hope that Canonical is like Apple in that regard
[02:44] <dobey> apple is very pedantic about reviewing app submissions
[02:46] <dobey> we're trying to automate as much as possible, so that we don't have to have humans doing boring grunt work to review app submissions.
[02:47] <Drew_Neilson> yeah and I guess it would be impossible for a human or group of humans to review every line of code in every app submission made to Ubuntu's app store
[02:48] <dobey> especially for ones that don't provide it
[02:49] <Drew_Neilson> you mean not all app submissions include all of that app'
[02:49] <Drew_Neilson> app's code
[02:49] <Drew_Neilson> ?
[02:49] <dobey> i mean such a thinga as proprietary applications is a possibility, yes
[02:50] <dobey> apple isn't reviewing every line of source either. most of the apps on their store are proprietary
[02:50] <Drew_Neilson> proprietary = confidential?
[02:51] <dobey> yes. proprietary is not open source.
[02:52] <Drew_Neilson> but when an app is submitted for tested an approved, they have to submit the app with all of its code, right?
[02:52] <dobey> while the core of ubuntu itself is open source, it doesn't mean all the apps that one might want on it will be (skype, steam, etc… for example are proprietary)
[02:52] <dobey> no
[02:53] <Drew_Neilson> tested an approved = testing and approval
[02:54] <Drew_Neilson> how can an app be submitted for testing and approval without including all of that app?
[02:55] <dobey> the source code is not necessary
[02:55] <Drew_Neilson> regardless of open source or proprietary
[02:55] <Drew_Neilson> what gets submitted?
[02:56] <dobey> the application package. the file that would be downloaded and installed on the device
[02:56] <Drew_Neilson> and you're saying that that is different from the app's source code?
[02:57] <dobey> depending on how the app is written, yes
[02:58] <dobey> but if you're not a developer or interested in developing apps for ubuntu, you probably don't care much
[02:58] <Drew_Neilson> I care about security
[02:59] <dobey> what matters is that we're constantly improving it, so that the app submission process is the best balance between keeping junk out of the store, and allowing developers to quickly get their apps in the store
[02:59] <Drew_Neilson> is speed important when it comes to the review process?
[02:59] <dobey> yes
[03:00] <Drew_Neilson> why?
[03:00] <dobey> speed is the primary complaint developers have with the apple store
[03:01] <dobey> because when a developer writes an app, they don't want to wait 2 months going back and forth with apple over tiny little things, to get their app out to users
[03:01] <dobey> and users don't want to wait 2 months for that to happen, to get an update to the app, either
[03:03] <Drew_Neilson> well I don't agree with all of Apple's policies, like how they sometimes reject apps based on content (like one app that made a political statement about suicides at Foxconn factories and that linked corporations like Apple and HP to those suicides... Apple rejected the app because it placed corporations in a negative light... that's the kind of content-based restrictions that I DON'T
[03:03] <Drew_Neilson> agree with)
[03:04] <Drew_Neilson> I read about that online
[03:05] <dobey> well, i don't see how that would be a useful app anyway
[03:07] <Drew_Neilson> It's not about whether it was a useful app, it's about Apple restricting free speech
[03:08] <Drew_Neilson> simply because the app placed them in a negative light
[03:10] <dobey> my bet is that someone made such an "app" explicitly knowing that it would be rejected, just to have a "news story"
[03:11] <dobey> anyway
[03:13] <Drew_Neilson> I think I found the app that I had read about: http://www.phonestory.org/
[03:20] <dobey> lol, the news surrounding that is a bit lazy indeed
[03:23] <Drew_Neilson> I just remember reading an article about it somewhere sometime, and I don't think that the authors of that app were just trying to draw attention to themselves, I think that they honestly were trying to make a point
[03:24] <dobey> it's all "it was rejected for these four reasons" and that's basically it. there's no mention of the devs further discussing with apple to resolve the issues.
[03:24] <dobey> Drew_Neilson: the entire point of that game is to draw attention to themselves. that is exactly how one makes a point. :)
[03:24] <Drew_Neilson> ok, but they have good intentions it seems
[03:25] <Drew_Neilson> they're tryign to do somethign important
[03:26] <dobey> sure, but extrapolating the news story about that app to mean "restricting free speech" is a stretch, from what i can see
[03:27] <dobey> and turning a single rejection into meaning "banned" is a bit dishonest as well
[03:28] <dobey> anyway, it is late here
[03:28] <dobey> later :)
[03:28] <Drew_Neilson> later
[03:30] <Drew_Neilson> for anyone else who might still be in the chat room, I guess what I'm hoping is that Canonical does everything humanly possible to screen for malware without censoring content excessively
[03:30] <Drew_Neilson> other than porn, of course
[04:12] <chunsang> charles: hello, can you review this for system setting? https://code.launchpad.net/~rsalveti/livecd-rootfs/exportin_ubuntu-system-settings_qml2_import_patch/+merge/233149
[04:14] <chunsang> or anybody who can review?
[06:53] <dholbach> good morning
[07:13] <senator> Hi! I translating Ubuntu Touch in my free time. But in the phone there are a lot of outdated translations. Can somebody push all translations to the phone? Because it is very hard to copy all .mo files by manually.
[07:14] <pitti> senator: we build langpacks pretty often -- yesterday we got a new set
[07:14] <pitti> senator: but in order to see it you need to run the -proposed channel; the release channel only gets images once per week or even less
[07:15] <senator> But I tried the image which released yesterday, and the installation wizard is english.
[07:15] <senator> still
[08:06] <chunsang> mardy didrocks charles: hello, can you review this for system setting? https://code.launchpad.net/~rsalveti/livecd-rootfs/exportin_ubuntu-system-settings_qml2_import_patch/+merge/233149
[08:08] <didrocks> chunsang: not sure who is using livebuild, sounds weird to export private components there, but I'll let seb128 or ken review rather
[08:08] <chunsang> didrocks: thanks. I'd like to use system-setting plugin from dialer-app to get and show version info thru given strings. With this patch, I don't need additional duplicated plugins any more.
[08:09] <didrocks> chunsang: shouldn't that be in the sdk then? or a shared lib?
[08:09] <didrocks> otherwise, it's sure that you will be broken by a system settings change without anyone noticing before the breakage to happen
[08:10] <seb128> chunsang, rsalveti, didrocks, yeah, that should work but I don't like much the idea of having other components depending on private code, it might create issues in the futur, we better make that code an official shared one if we do that
[08:11] <mandel> ogra_, is the upstart dbus (system) bridge present in the phone?
[08:11] <mandel> ogra_, oh my manners! and good morning
[08:13] <chunsang> didrocks: seb128: understand that it's private but after I made it as sdk and shared lib, it's just duplicated from system setting, otherwise seem not to touch any security problem, I think.
[08:14] <seb128> chunsang, the issue is not security, is that if we change the plugin in an incompatible way, the dialer-app is going to bug
[08:14] <ogra_> mandel, nope, only for sessions (security reasons)
[08:14] <seb128> so doing that works, but it requires us to be aware of the depends and make sure we test/keep those in sync
[08:15] <mandel> ogra_, agh.. so I guess that I cannot start an upstart job using a dbus signal from ofono, correct? %&^*
[08:15] <mandel> ogra_, what are the security reason in the phone that we do not have in the server or desktop?
[08:15] <chunsang> seb128: not really, I mean dialer-app added with MMI to get string and functions maps to be registered, not depending system setting plugins.
[08:16] <seb128> chunsang, I don't understand why you add that private path to the import then?
[08:16] <chunsang> seb128: only my qmls (from manufacturing requirement) uses them.
[08:16] <seb128> k
[08:16] <seb128> well, same warning
[08:16] <seb128> whatever is using private code, be aware that private interfaces are not stable and they might change and make your code stop working
[08:17] <ogra_> beyond the fact that the plan actually was to flush /etc/environment
[08:17] <ogra_> and get these vars set in better places
[08:17] <chunsang> seb128: possible, I'd already got long journey to put these easily to support manufacturing requirement but hard to put.
[08:18] <chunsang> ogra_: right but no way to modify /etc/environment without placeholder for release.
[08:19] <ogra_> i wonder why this cant be set in a snippet in /etc/profile.d though
[08:19] <chunsang> ogra_: more explains on it, I'm not familiar with that.
[08:19] <ogra_> you shouldnt need qml paths without a running session so the export could well happen in the session environment instead of having a system wide hack
[08:22] <chunsang> ogra_: I couldn't touch dialer-app at all for management issue :P and it just looks into dedicated dir for qmls.
[08:23] <chunsang> ogra_: I'd added qmls to dedicated dir and tried to use system setting plugins instead of my own plugins because of release management issue on this.
[08:24] <ogra_> chunsang, commented on the MP
[08:25] <ogra_> chunsang, even dialer-app runs as the user inside the user session, such vars should be set on session init and not in a system file
[08:25] <chunsang> ogra_: ok, it seems great. For clarifying can it be into custom tarball?
[08:27] <ogra_> chunsang, how do you mean that ? did you plan to modify the /etc/environment file from the custom tarball before ?
[08:27] <chunsang> ogra_: it surely didn't work, that's way I'm asking it.
[08:27] <chunsang> ogra_: ok, let me try.
[08:28] <mardy> chunsang: hi, I just commented on that MP; I don't think there is the need to inject the SystemSettings private QML modules into the import path
[08:28] <chunsang> ogra_: way -> why.
[08:30] <chunsang> mardy: I see, need to find another way :(
[08:31] <chunsang> ogra_: your guide can be hint for me.
[08:31] <chunsang> mardy: ogra_ thanks.
[08:32] <mardy> chunsang: np; if you don't want to alter the C++ code of your app, maybe you can wrap it into a shell script which alters the QML import path right before starting the real app?
[08:32] <chunsang> mardy: that's the limitation to me, I'm supposed to touch dialer-app.
[08:32] <chunsang> mardy: I'm not.
[08:33] <ichigo-roku> Hello
[08:34] <chunsang> mardy: probably use my own plugins by putting them into custom tarball with ogra_ 's comment for qml import path might work for me.
[08:34] <mardy> chunsang: I see; I understand that there might be release management issues, but I think that you should get some exception; it would be a minor change for dialer-app, versus a change on all the system
[08:36] <ichigo-roku> I installed Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 5, when I want to turn off the screen by pushing the upper right button of my phone, the screen turns black but lights still coming out of the screen, do you know how to completly turn the screen off ? Thanks
[08:37] <chunsang> mardy: ^^ yes, it worked with whatever ways on me, but hard to persuade maintainers. Thinking of making them working thru customer tarball will be best up to now :P.
[08:37] <chunsang> mardy: thanks for the comments btw.
[08:43] <daker> ichigo-roku: N5 is not an official device and this is a known bug
[09:20] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Another Look Unlimited Day! :-D
[09:34] <ogra_> sergiusens, could you change the toplevel status of https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/ubuntu-seeds/tone_generator/+merge/229623 from "needs review" to "recected" ? i cant and the status makes it show up on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.utopic/+activereviews
[09:35] <ogra_> oh, wait ... that is because LP logged me out ...
[09:35] <ogra_> silly
[10:05] <nik90_> zyga: ping
[10:07] <ichigo-roku> daker, Yeah I know but I didn't know where to ask for help, OK thanks I'll wait
[10:11] <zyga> nik90_: hey
[10:11] <zyga> nik90_: how can I help you :) ?
[10:11] <nik90_> zyga: Hi, elopio was convincing me to add manual tests for the clock app and suggested I use the format used by checkbox.
[10:11] <nik90_> zyga: he gave me the link to http://plainbox.readthedocs.org/en/latest/author/jobs.html
[10:12] <zyga> nik90_: yes!
[10:12] <zyga> nik90_: there are some cool docs I can show you
[10:12] <nik90_> zyga: But he couldn't find any real examples for me to get started. I was wondering if you could provide me links some examples since I have no idea how to start
[10:12] <nik90_> cool
[10:12] <zyga> nik90_: so we have a lot of jobs in lp:checkbox
[10:12] <zyga> nik90_: look at the providers/ directory
[10:12] <zyga> nik90_: but please read this first:
[10:13] <zyga> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodsmith/checkbox/intro-docs/+merge/232753
[10:13] <zyga> nik90_: it's probably easier if you branch and build it locally
[10:13] <zyga> bzr checkout --lightweight lp:~rodsmith/checkbox/intro-docs
[10:13] <zyga> cd intro-docs
[10:13] <zyga> ./mk-venv /tmp/venv-for-checkbox
[10:13] <zyga> . /tmp/venv-for-checkbox/bin/activate
[10:13] <zyga> cd plainbox
[10:13] <zyga> ./setup.py build_shpinx
[10:14] <zyga> xdg-open build/sphinx/html/index.html
[10:14] <nik90_> thnx
[10:14] <zyga> nik90_: have a look and I can answer any questions you may have
[10:14] <nik90_> quick question, so the point of using that specific format is to display it properly in the browser or an app?
[10:14] <zyga> (or try to answer)
[10:14] <zyga> nik90_: the format is so that our app can read it
[10:15] <zyga> nik90_: and then all the UIs can drive tests
[10:15] <zyga> nik90_: a browser-based webapp is in the works but it's not ready yert
[10:15] <zyga> *yet
[10:15] <nik90_> zyga: but does checkbox show the manual tests of core apps for instance? Or is there a plan for that?
[10:15] <zyga> nik90_: no, we're not doing that yet, we want to be *the* format for all kinds of tests but porting people over takes time
[10:16] <zyga> nik90_: we have the infrastructure and we're willing to help but we cannot force anyone
[10:16] <nik90_> ah
[10:16] <zyga> nik90_: if you write your tests in our format you can run them with two UIs today
[10:16] <zyga> nik90_: a console one (reliable, easy, works very well)
[10:16] <zyga> nik90_: and a SDK+desktop one (less reliable, on the way out)
[10:17] <zyga> nik90_: we're doing a new SDK UI that will scale from 4" to 27" displays
[10:17] <zyga> nik90_: we have most of the 4" code done and it can be useful for early testing next week (including on the desktop) but some functionality will be missing
[10:17] <zyga> nik90_: what do you want to do with results after testing is done?
[10:18] <zyga> nik90_: that's the key question to answer if you want to know if the app is useful for you today or not
[10:18] <zyga> ara: ^^ :-)
[10:18] <nik90_> zyga: no idea I am just getting started today...we already have AP and QML tests. But this is the first time I am writing manual tests
[10:19] <nik90_> zyga: hey the ./mk-venv seems to have removed the ubuntu-desktop package
[10:19] <zyga> nik90_: (it removes preinstalled plainbox, which removes ubuntu-desktop
[10:19] <zyga> nik90_: just reinstall ubuntu desktop after building
[10:19] <nik90_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8222445/
[10:19] <nik90_> oh
[10:19] <nik90_> I got scared for a while there :P
[10:19] <zyga> nik90_: everything is okay, I should add a warning that will explain why this happens
[10:22] <nik90_> zyga: ok I built the documentation and it opened it in my browser. So if you want me to read that documentation I suppose
[10:23] <zyga> nik90_: just read the intro page
[10:23] <zyga> nik90_: should be somewhere close, it's built form that intro.rst
[10:23] <zyga> nik90_: perhaps just intro.html
[10:23] <zyga> nik90_: it's in the author/ directory
[10:24] <zyga> nik90_: don't read everything yet
[10:24] <zyga> nik90_: just that intro page to get started
[10:24] <nik90_> zyga: ok I found the intro in file:///home/krnekhelesh/Documents/Ubuntu-Projects/Clock/intro-docs/plainbox/build/sphinx/html/author/intro.html
[10:24] <zyga> nik90_: we have lots of docs but I guess it's the right page to get started with
[10:24] <zyga> nik90_: exactly that
[10:27] <zyga> nik90_: after you do that, I'd recommend reading some man pages (they are in the same docs directory) and have a look at our test providers (providers/*) for realistic tests
[10:27] <zyga> nik90_: and ask questions, anything!
[10:27] <nik90_> zyga: ok, this will take some time :D
[10:34] <bzoltan1> mvo: hi, could you get a nod from cjwatson on this - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click/+bug/1364327 ?
[10:34] <bzoltan1> zbenjamin: ^
[10:34] <zbenjamin> bzoltan1: ah ok
[10:35] <mvo> bzoltan1: not yet, he is on leave currently
[10:35] <mvo> bzoltan1: did you review my branch ;) ?
[10:36] <bzoltan1> mvo:  I did :)
[10:38] <mvo> bzoltan1: oh, I didn't see a mail about it, how odd. let me check the MP
[10:39] <bzoltan1> mvo: for the new scope deployment feature zbenjamin has changed the qtc_device_applaunch.py
[10:40] <bzoltan1> mvo: so I think you want to check the possible merge conflict with the branch in the MP -> https://code.launchpad.net/~zeller-benjamin/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/scoperemoterun/+merge/233067
[10:43] <mvo> bzoltan1: hm, or my tiny branch lands first and the huge branch lands after that? but yeah, there will be conflicts
[10:44] <mvo> (from a quick look over the diff)
[11:54] <bzoltan1> ogra_: my fix for the SDK to comply with the new adbd policy will be fully backward compatible. I will land that fix hopefully today and backport to the SDK PPA for Trusty tomorrow.
[11:55] <bzoltan1> ogra_: so you can test the new image with the stock QtCreator easily
[11:55] <bzoltan1> ogra_:  with your adbd.deb package my tests passed
[11:55] <ogra_> bzoltan1, awesome, latest tomorrow we should then have everything in place in all areas
[11:56] <bzoltan1> ogra_: sweet
[11:56] <ogra_> so that we can turn off adb by default
[11:56] <ogra_> i havent heard back from plars yet though ... not sure if his testing passed last night
[11:57] <bzoltan1> mvo: the lp:~zeller-benjamin/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/scoperemoterun I have tested from the silo1 already and it is about to land in few hours. So if it is not a big hustle please adopt your MR to that.
[12:38] <cwayne> bzoltan1, should i be able to compile a go app in an sdk chroot? i can't seem to install golang-go there
[12:38] <Chipaca> is there an easy way in qml to say "this text entry should use a numeric keyboard"?
[12:38] <bzoltan1> cwayne: I havenot tried the go stuff recently
[12:42] <greyback> Chipaca: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.04/Ubuntu.Components.TextField/#inputMethodHints-prop
[12:42] <greyback> Qt.ImhDigitsOnly would be the right one. What I don't know is if the OSK is actually respecting that
[12:43] <Chipaca> greyback: i'll take a poke at it, thanks!
[12:44] <seb128> Chipaca, the pin dialog in e.g settings use "inputMethodHints: Qt.ImhDialableCharactersOnly"
[12:47] <sergiusens> bzoltan1: cwayne http://blog.surgut.co.uk/2014/06/cross-compile-go-code-including-cgo.html
[12:49] <cwayne> sergiusens, was literally just trying that exact thing, not working yet though
[12:49] <cwayne> namely: g++: error: unrecognized command line option '-marm'
[12:51] <sergiusens> cwayne: hmmm, Chipaca uses it
[12:51] <Chipaca> marm, marm
[12:51] <Chipaca> helloo
[12:51] <sergiusens> cwayne: I just made life simple and bought an armhf chromebook a year and a half ago
[12:51] <Chipaca> cwayne: this works:
[12:51] <Chipaca> click chroot -aarmhf -fubuntu-sdk-14.10 -s utopic run CGO_ENABLED=1 GOARCH=arm GOARM=7 PKG_CONFIG_LIBDIR=/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/pkgconfig:/usr/lib/pkgconfig:/usr/share/pkgconfig GOPATH=/usr/share/gocode/:~/canonical/ubuntu-push/ CC=arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc go test -ldflags '-extld=arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc' ./client
[12:52] <Chipaca> cwayne: AFAIR the only difference is that I say 14.10 instead of 14.04
[12:52] <cwayne> Chipaca, so i imagine i'd have to do all the ' go get's within the chroot first right
[12:53] <cwayne> Chipaca, i tried that before and got the marm thing, but i just copied/pasted yours and now it just complains about missing packages (which i'd expect)
[12:53] <Chipaca> cwayne: no, but yes the apt-gets
[12:54] <Chipaca> cwayne: that is, go packages should be fine unless you're using system-installed ones (which you shouldn't)
[12:54] <cwayne> Chipaca, hm, i added GOPATH to your call, now i get the marm thing again
[12:55] <Chipaca> cwayne: what's your go path?
[12:55] <cwayne> Chipaca, /home/cwayne/go
[12:55] <sergiusens> Chipaca: what does 'system-installed' mean? The golang-*-dev ones?
[12:55] <Chipaca> greyback: it works and honours the hint, 2fa gets the numeric keyboard \o/
[12:55] <Chipaca> sergiusens: yes
[12:55] <greyback> Chipaca: nice
[12:55] <sergiusens> that should work by expanding GOPATH (haven't tried, but should)
[12:56] <Chipaca> sergiusens: but if you've got things built for only one arch, it'll fail
[12:56] <Chipaca> cwayne: maybe you need to build stuff, not just have the .go things? (pastebin of the full error?)
[12:57] <cwayne> Chipaca, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8223334/
[12:59] <Chipaca> cwayne: you need to install crossbuild-essential-armhf in the chroot
[12:59] <Chipaca> cwayne: (last thing on the list of things to apt-get which at first you might think are only build deps for push, in that blog post)
[13:00] <cwayne> Chipaca, crossbuild-essential-armhf is already the newest version.
[13:02] <Chipaca> cwayne: hm. dunno, then. i can poke at it in a few minutes if you wish.
[13:02] <cwayne> Chipaca, if you don't mind, not super urgent (i can always continue to build on device if I have to)
[13:29] <Chipaca> cwayne: mind sharing yelp.go somewhere?
[13:33] <mterry> kenvandine, I've got a tentative fix for those password screen oddities...
[13:34] <kenvandine> mterry, woot...
[13:34]  * kenvandine does a little dance
[13:35] <kenvandine> mterry, how close is it?  i will be getting a silo for landing a bunch of fixes later this morning
[13:35] <kenvandine> it would be great to include that
[13:35] <mterry> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-system-settings/complete-sync/+merge/233217
[13:36] <mterry> kenvandine, I'd love if you can confirm if that fixes things for you
[13:36] <kenvandine> will do
[13:36] <mterry> kenvandine, because as we know, I was having problems reproducing and it seemed to manifest sliglhtly differnetly for everyone
[13:36] <mterry> ick, typing is hard
[13:36] <janimo`> pitti, hi, is there a way to tell which udev rule triggered a certain action as seen in udevadm monitor (a device node removal in my case) ?
[13:36] <kenvandine> in fact, i'll include it in my silo anyway... because without it we won't be able to sync up rtm
[13:36] <kenvandine> mterry, and it'll make it easy to test
[13:37] <mterry> kenvandine, assuming it works...
[13:37] <pitti> janimo`: hm, you can kind of do that with udevadm test --action=remove <devpath>
[13:37] <mterry> kenvandine, seems to work for me, but I don't trust my devices anymore in this regard  ;)
[13:37] <pitti> janimo`: this will show you what happens with the device and which actions get run
[13:37] <kenvandine> mterry, indeed
[13:39] <janimo`> pitti, will that test action seems to require something in sys
[13:39] <pitti> janimo`: yes, the devpath
[13:39] <pitti> janimo`: that you see in the monitor output
[13:39] <janimo`> pitti, ah right
[13:39] <pitti> janimo`: should look something like /devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0E:00/input/input1/event1
[13:40] <pitti> janimo`: you can also use something like "/sys/block/sdb1", but yes, it's a path in/sys
[13:40] <pitti> janimo`: (I think you can optionally specify/leave out the /sys prefix)
[13:41] <janimo`> pitti, seb128 wants to see why his /dev/ttyACM0 device exposed by a phone when booting goes away prematurely. It is something we thought we fixed by removing modemmanager but it looks like other things influence it
[13:41] <tedg> jhodapp, Can you look at this MR for me? We'd like to get the scope/URL Dispatcher things to land. https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/mediaplayer-app/video-uri-support/+merge/232085
[13:41] <ogra_> pitti, note that they ran "udev stop" before all this ...
[13:42] <seb128> janimo`, what should I run?
[13:42] <jhodapp> tedg, you just need a code review and/or testing?
[13:42] <janimo`> seb128, <pitti> janimo`: hm, you can kind of do that with udevadm test --action=remove <devpath>
[13:42]  * ogra_ highlly doubts udev is even remotely involved here, since it is stopped
[13:42] <janimo`> seb128, where the path is what you saw in udevadm monitor
[13:42] <tedg> jhodapp, Mostly code review, I don't know that you can really test without the other pieces.
[13:42] <seb128> janimo`, k
[13:42] <jhodapp> tedg, sure thing
[13:42] <tedg> jhodapp, Guess you could manually give it a URL.
[13:44] <pitti> janimo`, ogra_: udev isn't directly responsible for managing /dev/ anyway (that's the kernel); the only thing it could possibly do is to run "rmmod" in an udev rule, or something similar
[13:44] <ogra_> pitti, right
[13:44] <pitti> janimo`, ogra_: rmmod would be stupid of course, but modemmanager indeed does something like that (switching fake CD to proper modem); but that's the only case of that kind
[13:44] <ogra_> pitti, my bets are on either devtmpfs, the driver itself or even the other endpoint (phone) simply dropping
[13:45] <ogra_> pitti, so the instructions they have say: sudo stop udev; sudo apt-get remove modemmanager .... then do the tasks you need and sudo udev start ...
[13:46] <pitti> if it's still going away during that time, then you want dmesg, not udevadm indeed
[13:46] <ogra_> (i'm not a fan of the udev stop/start ... but there is definitely only the kernel at that point )
[13:47] <seb128> janimo`, ogra_, pitti: not sure what to interpret from that test command
[13:48] <pitti> seb128: it probably doesnt' have anything useful anyway
[13:48] <ogra_> seb128, well, i still highly doubt udev will get you anywhere ... especially since it is off ... do you have any clue about the battery level of the phone ?
[13:48] <pitti> aside from modemmanager there's nothing fiddling with modems, and even modemmanagers *adds* modems, not removes them
[13:48] <seb128> ogra_, 60%
[13:48] <ogra_> that should be sufficient i guess
[13:49] <seb128> well, that was before I spent an hour trying to repartition
[13:49] <seb128> so I guess it's > now
[13:49] <seb128> ok, so next question
[13:49] <ogra_> sure, but not low enough to crash the connection i guess
[13:49] <seb128> if I'm unable to repartition that device, can I still install something useful on it?
[13:49] <seb128> or shoudl I consider that an useless brick?
[13:50] <lool> pitti: hey, is it ok to poke you have a package in NEW from time to time?
[13:50] <kenvandine> mterry, any more discussion on launching apps behind the unlock screen?
[13:51] <lool> pitti: ubuntu-location-provider-here is the one I'd like us to unblock
[13:53] <mterry> kenvandine, no I've got a meeting this morning with some designer/security folks, will try to bring it up there
[13:53] <kenvandine> mterry, ok, it's not going to block the sync to rtm is it?
[13:54] <mterry> kenvandine, I hope not -- that's a completely unrelated bug
[13:54] <kenvandine> right
[13:54] <mterry> kenvandine, I think ToyKeeper was just noting it
[13:54] <kenvandine> good
[13:54] <kenvandine> i'm getting worried about this delta
[13:56] <pitti> lool: can look in a bit (meeting ATM)
[13:57] <lool> pitti: thanksely
[14:01] <cwayne> Chipaca, emailed it to you
[14:07] <zyga> nik90_: hey, do you need any help with checkbox?
[14:07] <nik90_> zyga: I did a quick reading of the introduction. But I still time to give it some thought and see how this all turns out
[14:08] <zyga> nik90_: if you tell me what you want to achieve I can help you out
[14:10] <nik90_> elopio: could you help give zyga context on what we are trying to achieve here
[14:11] <nik90_> elopio: as you are the mastermind behind this request :D
[14:11] <zyga> nik90_: thanks!
[14:11] <zyga> elopio: :)
[14:12] <mterry> kenvandine, may want to squeeze https://code.launchpad.net/~cimi/ubuntu-system-settings/wizard.wifi-fixes/+merge/233071 in too
[14:14] <kenvandine> mterry, fine with me if it's ready
[14:14] <mterry> kenvandine, I just approved it
[14:14] <mterry> so I think so
[14:15] <kenvandine> mterry, cool, thx
[14:15] <kenvandine> i'll get that included then
[14:15] <kenvandine> settings landings always have lots of branches :)
[14:16] <mterry> kenvandine, it's a sprawling beast  :)
[14:16] <mterry> got its thumbs in lots of pies
[14:16] <kenvandine> indeed
[14:25] <jhodapp> tedg, the change to mediaplayer.cpp where you detect if the scheme is of type "video" and then set the scheme to be "video", would this also be able to handle a remote URI or is it only intended for playing back local content?
[14:26] <jhodapp> tedg, err, type "file"
[14:34] <tedg> jhodapp, No, only intended for local content.
[14:34] <tedg> jhodapp, I think remote content comes to media player via content hub, no?
[14:35] <jhodapp> tedg, not sure, would have to ask kenvandine
[14:35] <kenvandine> ?
[14:37] <Chipaca> cwayne: you're missing a CXX environ, something like CXX=arm-linux-gnueabihf-g++-potato (but perhaps with less potato)
[14:37] <jhodapp> tedg, do remote video requests come to mediaplayer-app via content hub?
[14:37] <jhodapp> err, kenvandine ^
[14:37] <jhodapp> tedg, approved
[14:37] <cwayne> Chipaca, or maybe more potato.
[14:37] <kenvandine> most likely not
[14:37] <kenvandine> jhodapp, probably from scopes
[14:38] <Chipaca> cwayne: yes.
[14:38] <tedg> jhodapp, Cool, thanks!
[14:38] <jhodapp> kenvandine, right, makes sense
[14:38] <tedg> kenvandine, Scopes send them to the browser if they're http://
[14:38] <jhodapp> tedg, so if from the scopes, then it would be url-dispatcher handling it
[14:38] <kenvandine> it would only be the content-hub if it gets downloaded
[14:39] <jhodapp> ok
[14:39] <tedg> How do we handle things like rtsp:// ?
[14:39] <jhodapp> so therefore all YouTube playback requests will be handled by the browser
[14:39] <tedg> Can a scope give one of those links?
[14:40] <jhodapp> hope not :)
[14:40] <tedg> jhodapp, Oh, I thought GStreamer had an rtsp plugin, no?
[14:41] <jhodapp> tedg, it does, but that doesn't mean it'll work well out of the box :)
[14:41] <jhodapp> tedg, usually rtsp-based playback means a more complex system and it usually needs some tweaking under GStreamer
[14:42] <kenvandine> jgdx, your about-dual-sim-phonenumber branch is still getting pep8 failures
[14:42] <tedg> jhodapp, Hmm, okay. I really want to write a PBS Video scope that uses that, so if you could fix it. KTHXBYE :-)
[14:43] <jhodapp> tedg, well that doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a try
[14:43] <ogra_> tedg, you mean you have enough spare time to write scopes ?
[14:43] <jhodapp> it's just I can't guarantee at this time that it will work in all cases
[14:43] <tedg> ogra_, Not really, "really want to" :-)
[14:43] <jgdx> kenvandine, hm, thanks
[14:43] <ogra_> haha
[14:43] <tedg> jhodapp, So should mediaplayer-app register for rtsp then?
[14:44]  * ogra_ has a big pils of "really want to" sitting next to himm too 
[14:44] <ogra_> *pile
[14:44] <jhodapp> tedg, yeah...if you give it a try and it works, we can officially add it then
[14:44] <jhodapp> ogra_, me too...I want to write a top-notch podcast app
[14:47] <elopio> zyga, nik90_: hello.
[14:47] <elopio> zyga: so what I would like is to be able to record the results of manual tests.
[14:47] <nik90_> elopio: hi
[14:47] <elopio> zyga: on the clock we have some hard to automate tests, like setting recurrence and integration with the indicators.
[14:48] <elopio> following your advice, I think it would be good to give a try to the format you are using and run the tests with checkbox.
[14:48] <jgdx> kenvandine, I think I fixed and tested, then proceeded to merge trunk, which introduced new pep errors. Oh my
[14:49] <jgdx> pushed fix
[14:49] <kenvandine> oh my :)
[14:49] <kenvandine> thx
[14:50] <nik90_> elopio: say then the lander would be required to run these manual tests and then report back in the MP? Or should checkbox automatically do that or something?
[14:50] <elopio> jgdx: phew. I saw your ping a couple of days ago, I'm glad you will stay working on system settings.
[14:51] <zyga> elopio: hey!
[14:51] <jgdx> elopio, ::):)
[14:51] <elopio> nik90_: we need to define that part. We need something on the dashboard or the ci train spreadsheet so we can attach result files.
[14:52] <zyga> elopio: where would you like to record the results?
[14:53] <elopio> zyga: not sure. For the first iteration, I think it would be enough for the tester and the reviewer to share the file and then discard it.
[14:53] <elopio> at some point I would like to see graphs of results over time, and to be able to dig into the history.
[14:53] <zyga> kissiel: elopio ok
[14:53] <zyga> er
[14:53] <elopio> so we need a kind of dashboard.
[14:53] <zyga> elopio: ok
[14:54] <zyga> elopio: so I think we can help you already
[14:54] <zyga> elopio: let's do this
[14:54] <zyga> elopio: let's pick one test
[14:54] <zyga> elopio: write a description for plainbox so that you can run it
[14:54] <zyga> elopio: write a laucher that will run this test and store results
[14:54] <zyga> elopio: and see what you can do next, ok?
[14:54] <elopio> zyga: but this is just a experiment to see if this is better than what we have on the wiki or on the qa tracker. And nik90_ is always eager to be a test experiment :D
[14:54] <nik90_> zyga: would I be able to run the checkbox on the phone and then retrieve the results from the phone?
[14:54] <zyga> elopio: right, sounds good
[14:55] <elopio> zyga: yes, yesterday we were lookingn for examples of manual tests. Can you point us to one?
[14:56] <zyga> nik90_: if this test is fully manual
[14:56] <zyga> nik90_: then why would you want to?
[14:56] <zyga> elopio: sure
[14:56] <nik90_> zyga: also when I try installing ubuntu-desktop again, it proposes to install the chekbox-gui again. Should I let it do that? or just not install ubuntu-desktop metapackage?
[14:56] <zyga> nik90_: we're wokring on a phone UI so yes but not today, today you can run it on the phone from the terminal :)
[14:56] <zyga> nik90_: or on the desktop
[14:57] <zyga> nik90_: yes, just install it, you won't need that anymore
[14:57] <zyga> (that plainbox tree)
[14:57] <nik90_> zyga: ah so checkbox will provide a GUI with descriptions of the manual test. The tester can then test it on their phone and set the results in the checkbox gui?
[14:58] <zyga> nik90_: yes
[14:58] <zyga> nik90_: exactly as described:...
[14:58] <zyga> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/12gpgFGtNBoPet8215bUdeJ-QXLL_peQOsGCzipd4gh0/edit#heading=h.cu4n76j35kjl
[14:58] <zyga> nik90_: if you want to do manual tests using a desktop it's better to have the tester get instructions from the desktop now
[14:58] <zyga> nik90_: test the phone app
[14:58] <zyga> nik90_: because you have no limitations for that
[14:58] <zyga> nik90_: and you can send/process data in any way we need
[14:59] <zyga> nik90_: and once the phone UI is ready the same can be done *on* the phone
[14:59] <zyga> let me get a manual test case as an example
[14:59] <zyga> if you want we can have a three-way hangout
[14:59] <zyga> and do this interactively where we create a simple real test
[14:59] <nik90_> zyga: yeah I think that might help
[14:59] <zyga> k
[14:59] <nik90_> s/might/will
[15:00] <zyga> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/gxablkbkbphphzkwafdcinyvzqa?hl=pl
[15:01] <zyga> nik90_, elopio: ^^
[15:02] <cwayne> Chipaca, now i get this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8224183/
[15:03] <Chipaca> cwayne: typographic quotes
[15:04] <cwayne> derp
[15:04] <seb128> mterry, hey, do you know if there were discussions about setting the tz from the wizard?
[15:04] <mterry> seb128, I haven't heard any
[15:04] <cwayne> Chipaca, now http://paste.ubuntu.com/8224211/
[15:05] <seb128> mterry, k, I'm going to file a bug about that
[15:05] <seb128> it feels weird that the locale is right but that the tz is always utc
[15:05] <Chipaca> cwayne: now you're probably seeing consequences of not doing 'go get' in arm
[15:05] <Chipaca> cwayne: as you have to dependencies there that need compiling
[15:05] <Chipaca> cwayne: you don't need them compiled
[15:05] <cwayne> Chipaca, ah, ok, i'd done that for go-unityscopes, may have missed some
[15:05] <Chipaca> cwayne: but you do need them not compiled for other arch
[15:06] <Chipaca> cwayne: (so moving aside the 'pkg' dir in the first chunk of GOPATH should fix that)
[15:06] <Chipaca> should* :)
[15:08] <cwayne> Chipaca, so i moved aside GOPATH/pkg, same thing though
[15:15] <cwayne> Chipaca, seems to work if i do -ldflags '-extld=arm-linux-gnueabihf-g++' instead of '-extld=arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
[15:16] <Chipaca> cwayne: ah. i was just twiddling with that same arg, got stuck in ld emulation modes :)
[15:17] <cwayne> Chipaca, now to try to copy the binary to a device and see if it actually worked :P
[15:17] <seb128> pmcgowan, mpt, I just filed bug #1365023, not sure if that's a rtm issue/need design/...
[15:18] <seb128> (basically new systems always being set to UTC tz)
[15:18] <pmcgowan> seb128, ah, yes
[15:19] <seb128> pmcgowan, mpt, in fact there is already bug #1351534, marking mine duplicate
[15:20] <seb128> should probably be high rather than wishlist imho
[15:20] <ogra_> seb128, probably something that will just magically start working once the location stuff finally works ;)
[15:20] <pmcgowan> seb128, yours is more specific to the wizard
[15:20] <pmcgowan> the other was more automatic detection
[15:20] <pmcgowan> as I recall
[15:20] <seb128> pmcgowan, well, mine is sort of a proposed solution to the other one
[15:20] <pmcgowan> right
[15:21] <seb128> which usually design don't like, they prefer us to state the issue and have them come with a suggestion on how to solve it :-)
[15:21] <seb128> ogra_, well, the location service is going to provide the info, we still need some code using that info to set the system tz
[15:22] <seb128> ogra_, or do we have that code but it's not working by lack of accurate datas?
[15:22] <ogra_> silly software ... always needs code :)
[15:22] <ogra_> yeah,, indeed :)
[15:22] <ogra_> i dont know, i was hoping we have code already :)
[15:22] <ogra_> but i guess thats just hopes
[15:25] <daker> seb128: clock-app does have some code to get TZ, nik90_ right ?
[15:26] <nik90_> daker: in a hangout atm
[15:26] <seb128> daker, well, that still doesn't help much if you need to run the software to have that info set
[15:41] <pmcgowan> popey, does reminders have local notes now? planned?
[15:41] <ogra_> and when do we drop the notes app ?
[15:41] <ogra_> would be nice if someone made that final decision
[15:43] <pmcgowan> ogra_, yeah efforting that now
[15:43] <popey> pmcgowan: no, and no.
[15:44] <popey> pmcgowan: design are/were to redesign the app
[15:45] <pmcgowan> popey, ok, boo
[15:46] <popey> pmcgowan: looks pushed back to after october
[15:48] <pmcgowan> popey, dbarth  so I am in reminders, it prompts me to add an account in settings, I click that and never go to settings, so the app is stuck
[15:48] <pmcgowan> whose bug is that?
[15:48] <dbarth> pmcgowan: ah
[15:49] <dbarth> pmcgowan: no trusted prompt?
[15:49] <pmcgowan> dbarth, trusted prompt?
[15:49] <dbarth> pmcgowan: do you have a DEN in syslog or something in the app. log
[15:49] <popey> pmcgowan: it certainly used to.
[15:49] <dbarth> pmcgowan: a dialog that slides from the bottom of the screen
[15:49] <dbarth> i'll try right now
[15:49] <pmcgowan> nope
[15:49] <pmcgowan> no denial
[15:50] <dbarth> pmcgowan: it does pop up the account creation prompt for me
[15:51] <dbarth> running r217 or so
[15:51] <pmcgowan> dbarth, right but that does nothing for me
[15:51] <popey> it works here.
[15:51] <pmcgowan> dbarth, I click the "add account" button and nothing happens
[15:51] <pmcgowan> hmm
[15:51] <popey> i just deleted my evernote account, opened reminders, and it flipped me to the evernote accounts login
[15:52] <pmcgowan> I am on mako 218
[15:52] <popey> flo 220 here
[15:53] <pmcgowan> I can update and try again
[15:57] <lool> pitti: sorry, did you get a chance?
[15:57] <lool> pitti: ubuntu-location-provider-here in NEW
[15:59] <dbarth> pmcgowan: i will update to 218, but on 217, i can use the account creation dialog and that seems to work
[16:00] <dbarth> pmcgowan: just that i can't create a new evernote account right now, but that's me and my email address it seems
[16:07] <pmcgowan> dbarth, popey_ worked this time but took a long time, wonder if the wifi was off or something
[16:07] <pmcgowan> before that is
[16:07] <popey_> cool
[16:10] <dbarth> pmcgowan: we may need an extra progress indicato once the webview is started, but the actual page loads
[16:12] <tab141> there Ubuntu touch for rockchip rk3188??
[16:12] <sergiusens> pitti: can you help me out with a udev/udisks hint problem?
[16:13] <sergiusens> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc-android-config/+bug/1364434
[16:13] <sergiusens> not sure how to fix that possible race
[16:29] <lool> pitti: package was accepted, thanks
[16:58] <kenvandine> renatu, i've uploaded the folks change, but will have a new binary so will take a little time for an ACK
[16:59] <renatu> kenvandine, thanks
[16:59] <kenvandine> np
[17:57] <hackersarchangel> Howdy everyone
[17:58] <hackersarchangel> looking for the logs to SMS messaging
[17:59] <hackersarchangel> basically wanting to see what is causing it to just sit and spin
[18:03] <knott_rays> if some phone is a verizon phone, does it still have all the networks, or do they rip off GSM entirely somehow?
[18:05] <nhaines> knott_rays: it uses CDMA and not GSM.
[18:05] <nhaines> Unless it has been particuarly built to be an international phone.
[18:06] <knott_rays> wtf
[18:08] <nhaines> knott_rays: carriers don't pay for radio hardware they don't use.
[18:08] <hackersarchangel> just had a thought.
[18:08] <hackersarchangel> If I’m using a Sprint SIM that would then want to send the SMS over the CDMA radio correct? (Which would explain why that is not working)
[18:09] <nhaines> It's my understanding that CDMA doesn't use SIM cards.  That's a GSM technology.
[18:09] <hackersarchangel> NExus 5.
[18:09] <hackersarchangel> so it’s both.
[18:10] <nhaines> I wasn't aware my Nexus 5 had CDMA capability.
[18:11] <hackersarchangel> Well that is what I’m investigating.
[18:11] <hackersarchangel> Is SMS working for you??
[18:11] <nhaines> Perfectly.
[18:11] <hackersarchangel> hm.
[18:11] <hackersarchangel> Well I’m on an MVNO (Ting)
[18:11] <hackersarchangel> but I can make calls, so I figured SMS would work.
[18:12] <hackersarchangel> Based on some searching and some information from here.
[18:12] <hackersarchangel> Could be wrong though.
[18:12] <knott_rays> hmm, what about some kind of unlocking? is it on the hardware or the firm/software?
[18:13] <nhaines> knott_rays: can you be specific what you mean by "unlocking"?
[18:15] <hackersarchangel> I’ll keep looking for an answer, just need to sit down and take some time to look at the logs.
[18:15] <hackersarchangel> Now MMS is almost working but that’s a provisioning problem where I can’t seem to get ofono to accept my gprs file.
[18:16] <hackersarchangel> but that is altogether another issue. Also want to see if I can tackle the screen issue as I think that would be a major fix to get handled.
[18:26] <knott_rays> like it being locked to just one carrier
[18:33] <nhaines> hackersarchangel: that would enable me to walk around with Ubuntu running for an entire weekend.  It would be super valuable.
[18:33] <nhaines> knott_rays: that's some kind of firmware thing I believe.
[18:33] <knott_rays> good
[18:42] <hackersarchangel> Well I figure we are using the same kernel and base as Android, so in theory shouldn’t the actual call to the kernel be the same or similar?
[18:44] <nhaines> hackersarchangel: no, because we're not using the same kernel or base as Android.
[19:05] <mterry> kenvandine, which silo has the USS branches?
[19:06] <kenvandine> mterry, 20
[19:44] <kenvandine> renatu, folks packaging is in utopic now
[20:01] <renatu> kenvandine, great, thanks
[20:01] <kenvandine> renatu, np
[20:01] <kenvandine> hope it helps!
[20:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, did you see the CI failure for your reboot branch?
[20:22] <kenvandine> autopilot.exceptions.StateNotFoundError: Object not found with name '*' and properties {'objectName': 'rebootNecessaryDialog'}.
[20:29] <jgdx> kenvandine, looking
[20:29] <kenvandine> jgdx, thx... i've got a big bundle of MPs in silo 20... which I can't land until silo 10 lands
[20:29] <kenvandine> jgdx, so i figure if we can get that fixed I have time to get it in silo 20
[20:30] <jgdx> kenvandine, right, that would be swell
[20:31] <kenvandine> it would have been swell to have landed this silo last night :)
[20:31] <kenvandine> but... blocked on 10
[20:32] <kenvandine> although last night wouldn't have had the nifty passphrase bug fix :)
[20:33] <jgdx> nifty? :p
[20:34] <kenvandine> following your "swell" usage... i couldn't resist
[20:35] <jgdx> heheeh. I watch some american movie, next thing I'm using archaic expressions on irc
[20:51] <nhaines> Golly, that would have been convenient.
[20:53] <chrisc> hi i'm thinking of installing ubuntu on my phone and was wondering if i'll be able to use disk encryption?
[20:54] <ogra_> chrisc, *en* crypting would work ... de-crypting not so much yet though :)
[20:54] <chrisc> hmm, i read this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1311-user-data-encryption
[20:54] <nhaines> ogra_: that's half the battle.  :)
[20:54] <ogra_> (there is no graphical unlocking mechanism that could do that for you yet)
[20:55] <chrisc> i'd be happy doing it in a terminal
[20:55] <chrisc> in fact all i really want is a decent terminak and browser
[20:55] <chrisc> terminal
[20:56] <ogra_> both are pretty decent ... but require a running session
[20:56] <chrisc> i'm currenting running debian on android
[20:56] <chrisc> can you run firefox on unbuntu on a phone?
[20:56] <ogra_> (in fact i think the terminal app is the best mobikle terminal i have ever used (you need to know the secret magic though then it is immense fun)
[20:57] <ogra_> no
[20:57] <chrisc> secret magic?
[20:57] <ogra_> well, like double tapping the window to generte a tab key
[20:57] <chrisc> ok
[20:58] <chrisc> is there a browser that works with socks proxies?
[20:58] <ogra_> or tap+hold to get the ctrl+* cycle to choose ctrl+ como keys from
[20:58] <ogra_> *combo
[20:58] <ogra_> not sure if our browser supports socks yet
[20:59] <ogra_> (it is surely a planned feature, but unlikely to exist for the first phone release)
[21:00] <jgdx> kenvandine, oh man, I really wanna test this, but autopilot is making it hard
[21:04] <kenvandine> jgdx, if i had a nickel :-p
[21:06] <jgdx> :p
[21:17] <ichigo-roku> Is it possible to disable vibrations everytime I tap on something ? When I tap on Wi-Fi in the settings my phone vibrates, can I disable those vibrations ?
[21:17] <veebers> Hi jgdx, feel free to join #ubuntu-autopilot to talk to the devs and to get help if you need it :-)
[21:21] <jgdx> veebers, thanks