[15:00] <infinity> o/
[15:00] <jodh> \o
[15:01] <cjwatson> hi
[15:01]  * slangasek waves
[15:01] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:01] <slangasek> hmm
[15:01] <jodh> one day, we just have to do the full-team-alternating-wave thing :)
[15:01] <slangasek> pantomime again today?
[15:01] <mvo_> hi
[15:01] <caribou_> o/
[15:01] <sil2100> o/
[15:01] <barry> \o
[15:02] <robru> o/
[15:03] <slangasek> ok then, pantomime it is
[15:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[15:03] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
[15:03] <slangasek> doko barry bhuey caribou sil2100 bdmurray jodh infinity robru mvo cjwatson slangasek stgraber
[15:03] <doko> - DebConf last week, back to Berlin on Tuesday
[15:03] <doko> - toolchain updates
[15:03] <doko> - openjdk-7, openjdk-8 updates
[15:03] <doko> - update/submit AArch64 toolchain bug reports
[15:03] <doko> - fixing various ftbfs
[15:03] <doko> (done)
[15:03] <barry> last week: debconf
[15:03] <barry> this week: short week due to usa holiday.  python issue 22327 (test_gdb failures on utopic).  python-colorama 0.3.1-1.  more experimentation with git-based package maintenance.
[15:04] <barry> done
[15:04] <stgraber> barry: git-based package maintenance using git-dpm, dgit or something else?
[15:05] <barry> stgraber: i'm looking at both git-dpm and gbp-pq.  still trying to find good info on dgit ;)
[15:05] <bhuey> folks
[15:05] <barry> stgraber: see the debian-python archives for more details
[15:05] <caribou> I've started on git-dpm as well
[15:05] <cjwatson> dgit is kind of orthogonal to the other two
[15:06] <barry> yeah
[15:06] <cjwatson> barry: you could grab the video of Ian's talk at debconf
[15:06] <barry> cjwatson: has it been posted yet?  i couldn't find it
[15:06] <slangasek> presumably not; I believe the disks are in transit
[15:06]  * barry nods
[15:06] <infinity> barry: There's also git-debcherry, which Manoj tried very hard to sell me on.
[15:06] <slangasek> fwiw one of the conclusions from that session was that dgit is inadequate if you want 3.0 (quilt)-ish packages
[15:06] <cjwatson> hm, not in git-annex debconf-share, no
[15:07] <cjwatson> *currently inadequate, I think
[15:07] <barry> infinity: i heard about that too, but could find precious little docs on it
[15:07] <cjwatson> barry: https://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Serializing_Git_Branches.pdf
[15:07] <stgraber> barry: ok. I'm using git-dpm to maintain LXC (trusty, utopic, daily-ppa, stable-ppa), it's been working very nicely to share packaging changes between branches and to cherry-pick upstream fixes
[15:07] <barry> thanks!
[15:07] <cjwatson> that's Manoj's take on it, anyway.  I've heard the claim that he's incorrect about some of how git-dpm works there.  Haven't yet had the time to wade through that PDF
[15:07] <slangasek> git-debcherry does in no way provide the "repo matches the archive" semantics; but it may be the pairing to make dgit behave more nicely for 3.0 (quilt)
[15:08] <barry> cjwatson uses git-dpm for six and i generally like it too.  i've had more success with -dpm than gbp-pq for managing quilt patches, but it too has some odd corners
[15:09] <cjwatson> There is definitely an extent where you have to pick which failure modes you care least about
[15:09] <barry> yep :)
[15:09] <barry> i have one more "complicated-ish" test to run then i'll have a big long posting for d-p@
[15:09] <slangasek> bhuey:
[15:10] <caribou> barry: pls share if possible
[15:10] <barry> as an aside, git-dpm is one big shell script :-o
[15:10] <barry> caribou: will do
[15:10] <bhuey> Last Week
[15:10] <bhuey> -vacation
[15:10] <bhuey> -applied a patch to icedtea to fix a bug with a security related changes and bytecode verification, updated the package for precise/trusty/utopic
[15:10] <bhuey> This Week
[15:10] <bhuey> -kerberos configurations for TCK runtime testing, try to get it to work over the containers I have currently
[15:10] <bhuey> -looked at font patch related bugs and whether to change the package dependency to all legacy support to change the path directly
[15:10] <bhuey> -merge latest bzr changes, need to get that reviewed and then committed
[15:10] <bhuey> -talked to Andrew Hughs about icedtea 2.5.2 that just came out
[15:10] <bhuey> ...
[15:11] <caribou> bhuey: done ?
[15:11] <bhuey> yes
[15:11] <bhuey> done
[15:11] <bhuey> sorry
[15:11] <caribou> np :)
[15:11] <caribou> * More work on sosreport
[15:11] <caribou> * More overhaul of packaging workflow for sosreport : More git.dpm
[15:11] <caribou> * Degraded mode issue with grub when localized in french
[15:11] <caribou> (done)
[15:12] <sil2100> o/
[15:12] <sil2100> - Further discussions regarding RTM landings and the procedures there
[15:12] <sil2100> - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails
[15:12] <sil2100> - Writing documentation of the new CI Train features
[15:12] <sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
[15:12] <sil2100>   * Addition of sync:silonum functionality to silo sync
[15:12] <sil2100>   * Bugfixes here and there
[15:12] <infinity> caribou: People booting computers in French are obviously wrong.
[15:12] <sil2100>   * Working on additional unit tests for RTM features
[15:12] <sil2100>   * Rebasing CI Train branches-in-progress to be clean mergeable to the refactored trunk
[15:12] <sil2100>   * Investigating why the build jobs got broken after recent refactoring changes
[15:12] <sil2100> - Bisecting images to try understanding the media playback issue
[15:12] <sil2100> - Packaging advice for some upstream developers
[15:12] <sil2100> - Some work on reverting thumbnailer
[15:12] <sil2100> - Analysing UITK blocked in -proposed
[15:12] <sil2100> Holidays: part of annual leave - from 8th to 10th of September (next week)
[15:12] <sil2100> (done)
[15:13] <bdmurray> updated daisy not to retry retracing failed crashes so we can get the queue down
[15:13] <bdmurray> modifed error tracker to disregard systems with a system identifier of deadbeef (LP: #1324455)
[15:13] <bdmurray> updated retracer's sources.list files per pitti's recommendations (Ubuntu RTM 14.09 and not needing previous release)
[15:13] <bdmurray> fixed an issue with creating bugs from the ubuntu error tracker (daisy r524)
[15:13] <bdmurray> research into apport and click packages
[15:13] <bdmurray> reported apport bug 1365079 regarding click package info
[15:13] <bdmurray> merged ted's whitelist / blacklist fixes to whoopsie
[15:13] <bdmurray> merged evan's whoopsie merge proposal (more logging)
[15:13] <bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader SRU for bug 1357034
[15:13] <bdmurray> reported apt bug 1363257 regarding apport package failures and dpkg I/O errors
[15:13] <bdmurray> uploaded and tested new version of whoopsie in utopic
[15:13] <bdmurray> uploaded apt bug fixes for LP: #1353171, LP: #1363257
[15:14] <bdmurray> doko: bug 1363257 was what you were talking about last week I think
[15:14] <bdmurray> uploaded apport fix for bug 1360417 to the trusty-proposed queue
[15:14] <bdmurray> review of pending ubuntu-drivers-common SRU for trusty for Ara and Alberto
[15:14] <bdmurray> review of flash-kernel uploads to trusty for manjo/smoser
[15:14] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:14] <bdmurray> pinged plars about including /var/log/upstart/whoopsie.log in test results
[15:14] <jodh> * upstart:
[15:14] <jodh>   - Reviewing some new upstart jobs.
[15:14] <doko> bug #1363257
[15:14] <jodh>   - Discussions around use of upstart dbus bridges.
[15:14] <jodh>   - Working on bug 1360208. Code changes mostly done. Currently updating tests.
[15:14] <jodh>   - Released Upstart 1.13.2 and uploaded to archive.
[15:14] <jodh> * systemd-shim
[15:14] <jodh>   - discussions around cgmanager interaction.
[15:14] <jodh>   - Reviewed and tested with fix for bug 1357252.
[15:14] <jodh>     https://code.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/ubuntu/utopic/systemd-shim/shim-abandoncg/+merge/233280
[15:14] <jodh> ℶ
[15:15] <infinity> - (very) short week
[15:15] <infinity> - DebConf
[15:15] <infinity> - Public Holiday
[15:15] <infinity> - Investigate and (mostly) fix half our highbanks disappearing
[15:15] <infinity> - Fielding FFe requests
[15:15] <infinity> - Looking into reproducing and fixing (part of) LP: #1265192
[15:15] <infinity> - Packing my life hastily into plastic bags and throwing away anything squishy I own, thanks to a "fun" discovery of a bed bug infestation
[15:15] <infinity> (fin)
[15:15] <robru> - yo dawg, i heard you like CI, so I put your CI system under CI so you can CI while you hack on CI.
[15:15] <robru> - but seriously, I cleaned up a dozen test failures in lp:cupstream2distro, and then gated MPs against it
[15:15] <robru> - implemented a pep8 test for lp:cupstream2distro and cleaned up 400 out of 1200 pep8 violations
[15:15] <robru> - fixed queuebot which had a bug preventing it from correctly differentiating RTM landings from utopic landings (and caused it to flood the channel with stale silo statuses every 30s)
[15:15] <robru> - modified ci train dashboard to display the spreadsheet comment column, making it easier to see info where it's needed without having to cross-reference the dashboard to the spreadsheet
[15:15] <robru> - landings? OVER NINE THOUSAND!!
[15:15] <robru> - small optimization for NFSS graph loading logic.
[15:15] <robru> - probably other stuff but it's too early to be awake
[15:15] <robru> ✓ done
[15:15] <doko> bdmurray, thanks!
[15:16] <mvo_> apt:
[15:16] <mvo_> - Add travis-ci integration for upstream branch
[15:16] <mvo_> - Fix #759655 (env polution in tests)
[15:16] <mvo_> - #759612 (stack corruption),
[15:16] <mvo_> - merge upload from brian
[15:16] <mvo_> - fix tests for apt-cli-list
[15:16] <mvo_> - Fix Bug#759264 (improve proxy detection)
[15:16] <mvo_> click:
[15:16] <mvo_> - Address review issues by colin (thanks!)
[15:16] <mvo_> - Integration test(s) for debsig-verify itself (Bug#758615)
[15:16] <mvo_> - Look into subsurface clickification
[15:16] <mvo_> - lp:~mvo/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/lp1360582 updated
[15:16] <mvo_> - Merge/resolve conflicts in lp:~mvo/click/more-integration-tests3
[15:16] <mvo_> - Update lp:~mvo/click/lp1360582-honor-enum-only-trusted to latest lp:click/devel
[15:16] <mvo_> multiarch:
[15:16] <mvo_> - Work on "apt-get intall ubuntu-sdk-libs:$arch"
[15:16] <mvo_> - upload accounts-qml-module, cordova-ubuntu, indicator-messages
[15:16] <mvo_> - create branches for libaccounts-qt, unity-webapps-qml
[15:16] <mvo_> - Work on multiarch gobject-introspection transition (ppa:mvo/gir-multiarch,
[15:16] <mvo_>   lp:~mvo/+junk/gir-multiarch)
[15:16] <mvo_> misc:
[15:16] <mvo_> - Apt-ddtp-update
[15:16] <mvo_> - Fixed utopic upgrading issue (LP: #1338069)
[15:16] <mvo_> python-apt:
[15:16] <mvo_> - Debug/fix version reading bug from DscSrcPackage
[15:16] <mvo_> - Fix apt.debfile.DscSrcPackage.filelist
[15:16] <mvo_> - improve DscSrcPackage to contain more data
[15:16] <mvo_> - fix tagfile bug with latest apt
[15:16] <mvo_> - update code for gnupg 1.4.18 recv-key changes (it checks the fingerprint itself finally!)
[15:17] <mvo_> (done)
[15:17] <cjwatson> DebConf; travel; jetlag/swap
[15:17] <cjwatson>  - DebConf excellent as ever.  Still have All The Videos to watch.
[15:17] <cjwatson>  - GRUB talk apparently well-received, and I got a few bites from people interested in helping out.
[15:17] <cjwatson>  - Sat (barged?) in on DPMT session on git conversion.  Generally advocated git-dpm in various places.
[15:17] <barry> mvo_: \o/ - did that make it into 0.9.3.9?
[15:17] <cjwatson>  - UEFI Secure Boot session better-attended than expected, but still managed to get the essential bits done, namely agreeing on key generation with DSA and ftpmaster, and unblocking myself on dak testing.
[15:17] <slangasek> robru: over nine thousand> is that a real stat for landings? :)
[15:17] <cjwatson>  - Interesting session from people setting up a new organisation to build arm64 laptops based on existing chassis plus new board design.
[15:17] <cjwatson>  - Represented Ubuntu in derivatives discussion.
[15:17] <cjwatson>  - Other interesting sessions: ppc64el, state of ARM, bootstrapping, apt hacking, ad-hoc cross-building, dgit, bits from release team.
[15:17] <cjwatson>  - While not in sessions: shepherded some Ubuntu transitions (perl, gnustep-gui); got a reasonable amount of d-i work done (mostly merging Ubuntu changes); click firefighting.
[15:17] <mvo_> barry: haven't uploaded it yet, but your fixes are all in
[15:17] <cjwatson> Giant e-mail catch-up.
[15:17] <cjwatson> Merged half of UbuntuKylin seed-related changes, in ubuntu-archive-publishing; left review comment on ubuntu-cdimage half.
[15:17] <barry> mvo_: thanks!
[15:17] <cjwatson> Catching up on click reviews.
[15:17] <cjwatson> Working on fixing up https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/click/fix-tests-installation/+merge/226077.
[15:17] <cjwatson> ..
[15:18] <robru> slangasek: well... maybe not all this week. ;-)
[15:19] <slangasek>  * organized a party for 300 of my closest friends^W^W^W^W^W^W^W DebConf
[15:19] <slangasek>  * playing catch-up now on lots of email etc
[15:19] <slangasek>  * working on filling the open position in the team
[15:19] <slangasek>  * helped with thumbnailer revert to unblock phone CI; libqt5multimedia really needs upgraded to gstreamer1.0!
[15:19] <slangasek>  * discussions about buildd resourcing for new archs
[15:19] <slangasek>  * upcoming:
[15:19] <slangasek>   * working on getting IBM java into multiverse
[15:19] <slangasek>   * shepherding the cgroup upstart support into RTM
[15:19] <slangasek>   * RTM shepherding generally
[15:19] <slangasek>   * revisit apport branch for more reliable whoopsie-upload-all on the phone
[15:19] <slangasek>  * everybody book their flights for the Devices Sprint!
[15:19] <slangasek> (done)
[15:20] <barry> slangasek: done!  i'm flying through denver
[15:20] <slangasek> stgraber:
[15:20] <slangasek> barry: heh
[15:20] <stgraber> sorry was reading :)
[15:20] <stgraber> Short week, Monday was a public holiday.
[15:20] <stgraber>  
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Last Thursday was Ubuntu 14.10 beta-1 which went pretty well with most
[15:20] <infinity> slangasek: ITYM release sprint, with a very large peanut gallery.
[15:20] <stgraber>    flavors participating.
[15:20] <stgraber>  - LXC code reviews and landing a bunch of patches.
[15:20] <slangasek> somebody's trying to get their miles, I see
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Did some FFe reviews.
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Been having a ton of internal meetings eating most of my time, hopefully I
[15:20] <stgraber>    can talk more about that stuff later.
[15:20] <stgraber>  
[15:20] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:20] <barry> slangasek: :)
[15:21] <mvo_> debconf++
[15:21] <slangasek> any questions over status?
[15:22] <stgraber> barry: I was thinking about connecting through Dubai myself, there are some cheap flights going through there ;)
[15:22] <barry> stgraber: talk about padding your miles!
[15:22] <stgraber> then I'd be sure to make gold this year ;)
[15:22] <cjwatson> reminds me of the cheapest route from Chicago -> NY a couple of years ago, via Hawaai
[15:22] <cjwatson> er, Hawaii.  that one.
[15:22] <beuno> barry, how much did you bribe msm to have the sprint in your backyard and not have to travel?  Asking so I can start saving up for the next one
[15:22] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:22] <barry> cjwatson: with a 4 day layover?
[15:23] <cjwatson> couldn't possibly comment
[15:23] <stgraber> :)
[15:23] <slangasek> so I know I said we would get back in the habit of having more in-depth presentations of the stuff people are working on during the weekly meetings
[15:23] <slangasek> but August has been a bit scattered :/
[15:23] <barry> beuno: i think you just need convince the vp of engineering to move to your back yard
[15:23] <slangasek> so unless someone feels like jumping up to the mic and talking about their current activities?
[15:24] <barry> slangasek: not yet, but i would be happy to talk about git packaging at some later date
[15:24] <slangasek> noted!
[15:24] <slangasek> so, any other business?
[15:24] <mvo_> I could talk about making gir multiarch, but thats super boring
[15:24] <mvo_> (so no :)
[15:24] <infinity> Heh.
[15:24] <doko> slangasek, pending MIR's
[15:24] <doko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sparql-wrapper-python/+bug/1349899
[15:26] <slangasek> phooey
[15:26] <infinity> The system-image -> pip/virtualenv dep chain looks more "interesting".
[15:26] <slangasek> rdflib only has one revdep in main, zeitgeist - surely this shouldn't actually be ours
[15:26] <slangasek> but alas
[15:27] <slangasek> can I get a volunteer to take care of that bug above?
[15:27] <barry> infinity: ?
[15:28] <infinity> barry: See the second tree on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
[15:28] <infinity> Maybe this is a bug, and that seed isn't meant to be in main at all?
[15:28] <barry> infinity: oh yeah, damn, those are build-deps
[15:29] <slangasek> it's a bug and we're meant to finish archive reorg, but anyway
[15:29] <slangasek> ;)
[15:29] <slangasek> certainly things that are on the phone /should/ be in main
[15:29] <infinity> Indeed.
[15:29] <barry> i guess i should file mirs for those
[15:29] <caribou> pardon my ignorance, but who does the packaging of openjdk ?
[15:29] <slangasek> caribou: bhuey and doko
[15:30] <caribou> slangasek: ok, I had hesitation b/w both of them
[15:30] <doko> bhuey, please merge openjdk-7
[15:30] <bhuey> doko: yes
[15:30] <caribou> bhuey: doko: I'll ping you later about bug #1286895
[15:31] <barry> infinity: what does the 'R' arrow mean?  (see python-virtualenv)
[15:31] <slangasek> recommends?
[15:31] <infinity> ^
[15:31] <barry> oh, yeah
[15:31] <barry> "python-virtualenv recommends python-virtualenv"
[15:31] <doko> caribou, this is enabled in utopic. I'm hesitant if we should enable it for trusty
[15:32] <caribou> doko: ok, thanks for the info
[15:33] <barry> oh, hahahaha
[15:33] <stgraber> barry: that's a pretty short circular dependency ;)
[15:33] <barry> it's wackiness due to the binary package name transition.  there are a few steps that are not represented in that .svg
[15:33] <slangasek> but is it also a quantum virtual particle^W package
[15:34] <barry> :)
[15:34] <slangasek> and can I emit virtualenvs in an electric field to propel a space ship
[15:35] <slangasek> btw I don't think I actually got a volunteer for bug #1349899
[15:35] <slangasek> so I guess I'll assign it to someone ;)
[15:35] <infinity> I'm assured by my cousin at SpaceX that all space ships run on C++.
[15:35] <barry> slangasek: the universe is awash in dark virtualen(v)ergy
[15:35] <stgraber> slangasek: well, we don't have a lot of MIR people on the team, IIRC it's just doko and infinity
[15:36] <slangasek> stgraber: the assignment is to do the MIR /paperwork/
[15:36] <doko> stgraber, this is about *writing* the MIR's
[15:36] <stgraber> doko: ah
[15:36] <slangasek> stgraber: this is a stub bug that someone needs to complete :)
[15:36] <infinity> stgraber: It's not the job of MIR people to do all the paperwork.
[15:36] <infinity> It seems we all said the same thing there. :P
[15:36] <doko> but it's a long time that infinity wrote a MIR ...
[15:36] <doko> ;-P
[15:37]  * barry searches for a finger-on-nose emoticon
[15:37] <slangasek> anyway
[15:37] <slangasek> anything else?
[15:37] <slangasek> jodh: tag, the bug is yours :)
[15:38] <jodh> slangasek: que?
[15:38] <slangasek> jodh: bug #1349899, please complete the MIR paperwork for these new deps of a foundations-owned package in main
[15:38] <slangasek> jodh: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
[15:39] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:39]  * jodh thinks he's been stabbed with a short-straw :)
[15:39] <slangasek> :-)
[15:39] <mvo_> heh
[15:39] <stgraber> jodh: think of it about the opportunity to learn a new skill ;)
[15:40] <infinity> "skill"
[15:40] <infinity> There aren't enough air quotes in the world.
[15:40] <stgraber> ;)
[15:40] <mvo_> lol@infinity
[15:41]  * jodh makes air gestures in the general direction of infinity
[15:43] <infinity> I guess I should go finish (or start) waking up.
[15:43] <infinity> o/
[17:02] <pleia2> hi everyone
[17:02] <elfy> o/
[17:02] <pleia2> #startmeeting Community Council
[17:02] <pleia2> w00t, no bot
[17:03] <pleia2> anyne from the doc or quality team yet?
[17:03] <GunnarHj> I'm here from the doc team.
[17:03] <elfy> ping balloons
[17:03] <elfy> hi GunnarHj
[17:04] <pleia2> welcome GunnarHj
[17:04] <GunnarHj> o/ thanks
[17:04]  * elfy saw yesterdays doc team meeting
[17:04]  * balloons waves
[17:04] <pleia2> #topic Documentation team
[17:04]  * balloons had no idea this was happening.. zzz
[17:04] <balloons> I see it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:05] <GunnarHj> elfy: Yeah, it's much focus on the web site presentation right now.
[17:05] <pleia2> so we just do these check ins once a cycle to see how the team is doing and if there is any way we can help
[17:06] <pleia2> with my Doc team hat on, things are running more smoothly these days, even if the team still struggles to get active contributors to actually update the docs
[17:06] <pleia2> GunnarHj: thoughts?
[17:06] <elfy> well that's at least 50% good then :)
[17:06] <GunnarHj> As regards the desktop documentation, I feel we are lucky there are almost no visible changes in utopic.
[17:07]  * pleia2 nods
[17:07] <elfy> I assume that UI changes make it all a lot harder to get done
[17:08] <GunnarHj> elfy: Yes, basically the docs is almost completely associated with how you do things with the GUIs.
[17:08]  * mhall119 is here now
[17:09] <elfy> GunnarHj: and the bottleneck is getting suitable screenshots in good time?
[17:09] <mhall119> pleia2: (with your docs team hat on) are there specific pages/sections we can promote work on during Global Jam?
[17:10] <pleia2> mhall119: just a once through of the docs in general would be helpful, even if people just submit bug reports
[17:10] <mhall119> pleia2: specifics would be more likely to get worked on
[17:10] <GunnarHj> elfy: That often happens as a last minute thing. But writing new docs is what takes most time.
[17:10] <pleia2> I can take a look at the global jam docs page and make sure the instructions are there
[17:10] <mhall119> pleia2: that would be great, thanks
[17:10] <pleia2> mhall119: I'll also send a mail to the list, maybe someone else has ideas re: specific pages
[17:11] <elfy> GunnarHj: we have the same issue with Xubuntu docs tbh
[17:11] <mhall119> thanks, the more specific items we can get across the board the easier it will be for loco teams to pick one to work on
[17:11] <pleia2> yeah, the real bottleneck is tiny team doing all the work
[17:11] <mhall119> GunnarHj: is there an automated way of gathering screenshots?
[17:11] <GunnarHj> There is not much time left for utopic. As regards desktop docs, I'm thinking of fixing a few bugs and ship a package that will be very similar to the trusty one.
[17:11] <elfy> I have firsthand experience of that pleia2 :p
[17:12] <GunnarHj> mhall119: No automation that works.
[17:12] <pleia2> mhall119: we have a script, just needs to be tweaked each release
[17:12] <pleia2> so it often just gets done by hand
[17:12] <mhall119> pleia2: is there a lot of tweaking needed each release?
[17:12] <pleia2> I don't know
[17:13] <GunnarHj> mhall119: We just don't use it. ;)
[17:13] <pleia2> yeah, I think the people who knew how it works have moved on
[17:14] <pleia2> anyway, I don't think there are any real issues with the team at this point, just typical more people needed kind of thing :)
[17:15] <mhall119> is there any pro-active recruitment going on?
[17:15] <GunnarHj> pleia2: I agree.
[17:15] <mhall119> or just trying to retain people who show up and show interest?
[17:15] <pleia2> mhall119: sometimes I go to fossetcon and tell people to contribute to docs ;)
[17:16] <pleia2> aside from my blog posts here and there, I don't think there's a whole lot of active recruitment, mostly just people who show up
[17:16] <mhall119> sometimes eh? that's impressive, with it being the first one ever :-P
[17:16] <pleia2> which is a vast improvement from where things were last year, when people were still being ignored when they showed up (no one to welcome them)
[17:16] <pleia2> everyone who was involved back then was too busy working to onboard
[17:16] <elfy> that's good
[17:17] <GunnarHj> We do welcome anyone who shows an interest in contributing. We are not very busy doing so, though. ;)
[17:17] <pleia2> yeah
[17:17] <elfy> I know at least one person who just gave up trying to get involved in the past
[17:17] <GunnarHj> elfy: Can't speak for the past.
[17:18] <elfy> so actually being proactive is good
[17:18] <pleia2> even I gave up in the past ;)
[17:18] <elfy> :)
[17:19] <pleia2> ok, time to move on to quality team?
[17:19] <pleia2> thanks GunnarHj :)
[17:19] <GunnarHj> pleia2: No problem.
[17:19] <elfy> if things are moving forward with docs then I'm \o/
[17:19] <pleia2> #topic Quality team
[17:19] <mhall119> me too
[17:19] <pleia2> balloons: hey hey, how are things going?
[17:19] <pleia2> (and anyone else here from quality :))
[17:19] <elfy> o/
[17:19] <elfy> :)
[17:21]  * mhall119 pokes balloons 
[17:21] <mhall119> wake up!
[17:21] <balloons> I'm here, I'm here
[17:21] <elfy> welcome balloons :)
[17:22] <elfy> so how's quality - other than Xubuntu going :)
[17:22] <balloons> I don't think anyone from quality will show as they most likely also didn't know about this time :-)
[17:22]  * elfy sadly wanders off not being anything to do with quality 
[17:23] <balloons> at any rate, quality goes well from a test writing perspective. We've maintained and expanded our testcases well as things have changed.
[17:23] <balloons> From the test result perspective, I know all flavors are struggling for testers during milestones
[17:23] <pleia2> we sent an email notifying in April, but didn't send a follow up one, sorry about that
[17:23] <balloons> ubuntu hasn't had any milestones this cycle, so it remains to be seen what sort of response we will have
[17:24]  * pleia2 nods
[17:24] <pleia2> I know life has gotten in the way of my own testing this cycle :\
[17:24] <elfy> I don't often look at other peoples tracker results - is there much being reported for Ubuntu
[17:24] <mhall119> balloons: do other flavors use the same testing infrastructure and technology as touch and unity desktop?
[17:25] <balloons> In general I think one factor is the intimidation of tracker on folks; and the fact we haven't done any development effort on it in some time
[17:25] <elfy> mhall119: xubuntu does it what it can - but autopilot doesn't work for the majority of our apps
[17:25] <elfy> we use the tracker to good effect when there is actually testing being done
[17:25] <balloons> mhall119, there is a base suite of AP tests for the installer than runs against all flavors, but otherwise there is no automated testing for flavors really
[17:26] <balloons> otherwise yes the teams use the same setup. Everyone uses the tracker for manual result reporting, but they are not obligated to do so. So they can do other efforts outside of it, and I believe KDE does
[17:26] <mhall119> AP is autopilot or autopackage?
[17:26]  * elfy uses jenkins for our image tests
[17:26] <balloons> sorry, kubuntu ;-)
[17:27] <balloons> that said, for milestones the release team requires use of the tracker
[17:27] <balloons> mhall119, AP is autopilot, sorry
[17:28] <balloons> on the autopackage side of things, there isn't much general quality community involvement afaik. It's generally very specific and done by upstreams or martin and jean-baptiste
[17:28] <balloons> we had a small push, but autopackage tests are better written by an upstream or package maintainer
[17:29] <mhall119> that makes sense
[17:29] <mhall119> does AP work against Kubuntu and Xubuntu apps? Being Qt4/5 and Gtk2 respectively?
[17:30] <elfy> not for us
[17:30]  * mhall119 thinks most Xubuntu stuff is Gtk2 still
[17:30] <mhall119> elfy: what's the cause of it not working?
[17:30] <elfy> not sure of the mix tbh mhall119
[17:30] <elfy> I've no idea tbh - not a coder at all
[17:31] <balloons> mhall119, for gtk2 apps there has been issues with trying to introspect them. Qt apps are MUCH nicer and respond properly
[17:31] <elfy> balloons would have a better idea of the why than me
[17:31] <elfy> and he did :)
[17:32] <balloons> on the gtk3 side, I'm not sure we have any gtk3 app tests actually. gtk dbus sessions like to spawn lots of useless and duplicate objects
[17:32] <balloons> I believe gtk3 is better in this regard
[17:32] <elfy> mhall119: we had someone beginning to look for us - but r/l got in the way so it's been shelved temporarily
[17:33] <balloons> that said, we do have a small set of apps that do work under gtk2
[17:33] <balloons> elfy is right in that none of the apps under xubuntu will allow themselves to be introspected.
[17:34] <balloons> unless they want to switch to gnome apps :-)
[17:34] <elfy> ...
[17:34] <pleia2> hah
[17:36] <pleia2> so is there anything we can help with at this point, or are things pretty much going along smoothly?
[17:36] <elfy> from my perspective it's going as smoothly as it could without me having a bunch of people on tap :)
[17:36] <pleia2> I am noticing a trend...
[17:37] <elfy> :)
[17:37] <elfy> funnily enough I notice the same trend
[17:37] <balloons> I would agree. It's sad that autopilot isn't a good solution for many flavors. I guess it might be useful to try and work with the kubuntu folks a bit more, since it should work for them
[17:37]  * pleia2 nods
[17:38] <balloons> in general I would like to see a bigger shift to automation from manual. But yea, I've been very pleased with the maintenance of the testsuites. Just need bodies to run them :-)
[17:39] <balloons> so yea, promoting things like global jam would help with that
[17:39] <balloons> I think that's the biggest thing you could do
[17:40] <balloons> otherwise, thanks for checking in. I'll try and mark my calendar next time so it's not a surprise
[17:40] <pleia2> thanks balloons
[17:40] <elfy> next time we'll remember to remind the week before as well :)
[17:40] <elfy> thanks balloons
[17:41] <pleia2> #topic Any other business
[17:41] <pleia2> anything else?
[17:41] <elfy> not from me
[17:43] <pleia2> ok, thanks everyone :)
[17:43] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[17:43] <elfy> thanks all
[21:56] <belkinsa> Letozaf_, are you ready?
[21:56] <Letozaf_> belkinsa, yes :)
[21:56] <belkinsa> Perfect. We will be starting in three minutes.
[21:57] <Letozaf_> belkinsa, ok fine
[22:00] <belkinsa> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
[22:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  4 22:00:12 2014 UTC.  The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[22:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[22:00] <belkinsa> Welcome to the 2200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board meeting.  Who is all for this meeting?
[22:00] <belkinsa> #voters s-fox belkinsa
[22:00] <meetingology> Current voters: belkinsa s-fox
[22:01] <belkinsa> Going once.
[22:03] <belkinsa> It seems that we might have to do it via the mailing-list.  Letozaf_, you already have +4, but we need one more to carry the montion.
[22:03] <belkinsa> motion*
[22:03] <Letozaf_> belkinsa, ok
[22:03] <s-fox> i'm sorry Letozaf_  :(
[22:04] <Letozaf_> s-fox, no matter
[22:04] <popey> hello all
[22:04] <belkinsa> We may have one coming.
[22:04] <belkinsa> #voters popey
[22:04] <meetingology> Current voters: belkinsa popey s-fox
[22:04] <Letozaf_> popey, o/
[22:04] <belkinsa> #voters cyphermox_
[22:04] <meetingology> Current voters: belkinsa cyphermox_ popey s-fox
[22:05] <popey> \o/ quorum
[22:05] <belkinsa> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
[22:05]  * Letozaf_ thanks everyone :)
[22:05] <belkinsa> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
[22:05] <belkinsa> he format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
[22:05] <belkinsa> The*
[22:05] <popey> oh hey Letozaf_ !
[22:05] <belkinsa> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
[22:05] <Letozaf_> popey, hi
[22:06] <belkinsa> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
[22:06] <belkinsa> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
[22:06] <belkinsa> #voters PabloRubianes
[22:06] <meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes belkinsa cyphermox_ popey s-fox
[22:06] <belkinsa> Letozaf_, are you ready?
[22:06] <Letozaf_> belkinsa, yes
[22:07] <Letozaf_> Hello, My Name is Carla Sella (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlaSella). I live in northern Italy near Venice and I'm a System Administrator in the IT Department of a firm in Schio a little city.
[22:07] <Letozaf_> I am not so lucky to have many Linux servers where I work but I am a Linux enthusiast.
[22:07] <Letozaf_> I have had the fortune to participate UDS-R as Nichoalas Skaggs encouraged me to apply for sponsorship and to start collaborting with him on testing, I am currently member of Ubuntu Quality Team, Ubuntu Core Apps Test Writers and I enjoy writing autopilot tests for  Ubuntu Phone Core Apps.
[22:07] <Letozaf_> It would be an honor to be part of the Ubuntu Comunity.
[22:07] <popey> Check out those testimonials!
[22:07] <cyphermox_> yeah, very nice
[22:07] <popey> That's something to be proud of right there.
[22:07] <belkinsa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CarlaSella is her wiki page
[22:07] <Letozaf_> popey, :P thanks
[22:08] <belkinsa> Ready to vote?
[22:08] <popey> I have no questions to ask. I'm well aware of Letozaf_'s awesome work.
[22:08] <s-fox> I am good to go to a vote
[22:08] <popey> Surprised Letozaf_ isn't already a member.
[22:08] <belkinsa> +1
[22:08] <Letozaf_> popey, :P
[22:08] <belkinsa> How to use #votesrequired?
[22:08] <s-fox> same popey
[22:09] <s-fox> use #vote and #endvote
[22:09] <belkinsa> #vote
[22:09] <meetingology> Please vote on:
[22:09] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[22:09] <belkinsa> +1
[22:09] <popey> +1
[22:09] <s-fox> +1
[22:09] <PabloRubianes> +1
[22:09] <popey> Awesome work Letozaf_ !
[22:09] <cyphermox_> I think Letozaf_might actually be responsible for some of the funnest bugs I've had to deal with
[22:09] <cyphermox_> +1
[22:09] <Letozaf_> popey, thank you
[22:09] <cyphermox_> by responsible, I mean filing the bug reports
[22:09] <popey> ☻
[22:09] <belkinsa> We have +4 here and +2 from the mailing-list/IRC.  So that is +6
[22:09] <cyphermox_> I do have one question though
[22:09] <belkinsa> #endvote
[22:09] <meetingology> No vote in progress
[22:10] <belkinsa> Carp.
[22:10] <s-fox> #vote $foo
[22:10] <belkinsa> cyphermox_, go a head.
[22:10] <cyphermox_> Letozaf_: how has COBOL programming affected your mental health? ;)
[22:10] <popey> I think whatever the bot says, it's pretty clear the result of the vote.
[22:10] <balloons> sorry Letozaf_ I stepped away for a second
[22:10] <s-fox> :)
[22:10] <Letozaf_> cyphermox_, well I must say that now days it's crazy just to think to program in COBOL :P
[22:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, hello
[22:11] <cyphermox_> popey: should we restart the vote to have a clear trail or just deal with the textual logs?
[22:11] <balloons> I didn't know you did COBOL Letozaf_.. me too :-)
[22:11] <popey> I wouldn't. The channel is clearly logged.
[22:11] <cyphermox_> yes
[22:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, well I wouldn't suggest to use it :P
[22:11] <balloons> lol
[22:11] <cyphermox_> it's just harder to read this way, but this vote is a clear approval
[22:11] <belkinsa> Thanks cyphermox_.
[22:11] <popey> yeah. congratulations Letozaf_ !
[22:11] <cyphermox_> well, congrats Letozaf_!
[22:12]  * Letozaf_ thanks everyone 
[22:12] <s-fox> congratulations Letozaf_ :)
[22:12] <belkinsa> Congratulations Letozaf_!
[22:12] <popey> \o/
[22:12] <cyphermox_> if you have a blog, make sure to follow the steps on the wiki to add it to planet.ubuntu.com!
[22:12] <belkinsa> Letozaf_, please see this for help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership#Benefits_of_Membership
[22:12] <Letozaf_> belkinsa, ok
[22:12] <Letozaf_> cyphermox_, ok
[22:12] <s-fox> got to go, take care
[22:13] <cyphermox_> take care s-fox
[22:13] <Letozaf_> s-fox, thanks
[22:13] <belkinsa> Thanks for coming everyone.
[22:13] <belkinsa> #endmeeting
[22:13] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  4 22:13:26 2014 UTC.
[22:13] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-09-04-22.00.moin.txt
[22:13] <popey> \o/ That was easy
[22:13] <cyphermox_> short and efficient
[22:13] <belkinsa> Ineed.
[22:13] <Letozaf_> thank you everyone :-)