[00:01] <Unit193> So, the saucy docs branch seems to still be getting translations...
[00:06] <ali1234> dbl_click_time seems unused
[00:08] <ali1234> it isn't in here http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/tree/defaults/defaults
[00:17] <ali1234> xfce bug 6334
[00:19] <ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=7d94a9c54ec7cf17b063484846250c7a97866853
[00:19] <ali1234> also http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/log/?qt=grep&q=6334
[00:20] <ali1234> bluesabre: ^
[00:20] <ali1234> "dbl_click_time" no longer appears in xfwm4 source
[00:21] <ali1234> it's coming from the xubuntu defaults
[00:23] <bluesabre> got it, thanks ali1234... I'll drop that key from our settings
[05:24] <Unit193> knome: Should I renew for xubuntu-docs?
[06:26] <elfy> another day another breakage - lightdm this time 
[06:46] <Unit193> Uh oh, better not restart then. :/
[06:49] <Unit193>     - Rework logind code that gets session ID. The previous method was racy
[06:49] <Unit193>       and a change in lightdm 1.11.7 led to a lockup when this race occurred.
[06:49] <Unit193>       (LP: #1364725)
[06:53] <Unit193> elfy: Better now?
[06:53] <elfy> ochosi bluesabre - you been fiddling with desktop settings again? 
[06:53] <Unit193> "Reduce number of workspaces to 1"?
[06:54] <elfy> one workspace and try setting seperate wallpaper when you've got desktops back to a sane default
[06:54] <elfy> making sure that you set it so you want different wallpaper - and then try and move the dialogue to the next desktop
[06:55] <Unit193> Bleh, the "wrap desktops" thing, that one hit me (other one didn't, alerady had messed with the number.)
[06:55]  * Unit193 goes to fix.
[06:56] <Unit193> Hrm.
[06:57] <elfy> so if you're going to set desktops to 1 - something needs to be done so people can easily reset that and the wrap so other things work as expected
[06:58] <Unit193> Yep, found it.
[06:58] <elfy> if random decisions are just going to be made in here by two people then I'm in the wrong place
[06:59] <Unit193> Mmm, it is getting tedious.
[06:59] <elfy> well I've certainly had enough of it all 
[07:01] <elfy> feels like it's 'have some discussions in *other* channel' have a quick chat in here and jfdi
[07:03] <elfy> Unit193: and no - not better - in the other install - everything but lightdm updated and nvidia reinstalled now it's got a working kernel/nvidia pair :) 
[07:03] <Unit193> Hrm, OK.  I just got a lightdm update that looked like it might do it.
[07:04] <elfy> wasn't a replacement from main server 10 minutes ago
[07:04] <Unit193> I wasn't on .8 yet, am now.
[07:04] <elfy> I was - I'm on .7 in this install ;)
[07:05] <Unit193> So back to "don't reboot", got it.
[07:05] <elfy> yep
[07:06] <elfy> you *can* get in via tty1 and startx - but it's all wrong, get blue window title bars for a start
[07:06] <Unit193> Right, you need to set a few vars to get it right.
[07:06] <elfy> or expect upgrades not to break things :p
[07:06] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/ecrRO2Xm5SdFUjnlkaeN/ is what I had from so long ago.
[07:07] <elfy> thanks Unit193 
[07:08] <Unit193> No idea if it still works, but that's my .xinitrc
[07:08] <elfy> :)
[07:11] <elfy> booting the broken one again to report bug
[07:11] <Unit193> Ah, typo there, DEFAULTS_PATH
[07:11] <elfy> back in a few
[07:27] <elfy> that made no difference Unit193 - reported for better or worse bug 1365336
[08:13] <ochosi> elfy: monring
[08:13] <ochosi> morning
[08:14] <ochosi> there was a discussion about it, and i didn't feel that changing these settings warranted a big discussion as it is a consequence of earlier decisions (namely removing workspace-switcher from the panel, disabling scrolling on desktop to switch workspaces)
[08:14] <ochosi> also, there was no discussion about it on any other channel
[08:14] <ochosi> and it wasn't just two people
[08:14] <ochosi> just to correct you there :)
[08:15] <ochosi> if you disagree with the decision, let's discuss it. rants really don't help anyone
[08:17] <elfy> the decision to change things have ramifications - changing default wrap - makes the change to wallpaper pointless
[08:22] <ochosi> change to wallpaper?
[08:23] <elfy> the desktop settings - set wallpaper different on workspaces - try moving the dialogue now - when you've added a desktop
[08:23] <ochosi> elfy: ^
[08:23] <ochosi> ah
[08:23] <ochosi> is there a bug or are you just pointing out that you can't set different wallpapers for workspaces with only one workspace?
[08:24] <elfy> any idea about how many people actually only use 1 desktop?
[08:24] <ochosi> no, but we didn't base the decision on quantitative analysis
[08:24] <elfy> ochosi: the first thing I did was set to 2 desktops 
[08:25] <elfy> then as I got hit by a lightdm bug - I booted the other one - managed to add nvidia - now that bug is fixed - then I found you're removed wrap when I tried to move the dialogue to set wallpapers 
[08:26] <ochosi> right
[08:27] <elfy> so we say Move this dialogue - but it's impossible to do without resetting a bunch of things
[08:27] <ochosi> in that case that's a clear bug in xfdesktop, it shouldn't show that infobar if workspaces=1
[08:27] <elfy> or workspaces shouldn't =1
[08:28] <ochosi> no, that's not really the point
[08:28] <elfy> it is for me
[08:28] <ochosi> what you're describing is a misleading infobar
[08:28] <ochosi> which can easily be hidden
[08:34] <ochosi> sry, gotta go, bbl
[08:38] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, Does the 4.12 ppa still need the 4.10 one? ANd should the description still be "these are pre-release versions, which may contain annoying bugs and/or crash. Use them at your own risk.", since all the packages i pushed are in the official archives
[08:42] <Noskcaj> And we use "staging" for the stuff that is not recommended for normal use
[08:54] <elfy> ochosi: bug 1365382 and xfce 11134
[08:58] <brainwash> interesting that no one has noticed (and reported) this before
[08:58] <brainwash> btw we've lost a customer
[08:58] <brainwash> read https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1271169/comments/4
[09:25] <ali1234> gnome-session-fallback doesn't have 5 years of support
[09:25] <ali1234> lol
[09:25] <ali1234> some people...
[09:25] <brainwash> he closed his report at least :)
[09:26] <ali1234> yeah he loves closing bugs, i think that's all he does
[09:43] <slickymasterWork> Unit193: you have doubts?! Of course you must renew (not should)!!!
[09:46] <slickymasterWork> Unit193, knome, since Saucy is EOL, can't we just close the lp:xubuntu-docs/saucy branch?
[10:10] <bluesabre> elfy: got it, re-enable workspace drag. As I said before, I want to discuss all the default settings with everyone. Created this pad, where we can have a quick overview: http://pad.ubuntu.com/diA31J1P9e
[10:10] <bluesabre> if anybody has any questions, or wants to change or revert, please, let's discuss
[10:11] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, That's all the xfce stuff done for trusty backport ppa (and your packages)
[10:11] <bluesabre> working on a larger google doc that shows xfce, 14.04, and 14.10 defaults: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kU58YbatuIjM9OF7DDjajw-QzTVNBDIoKg9ZiV2cPDE/edit?usp=sharing
[10:12] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: thanks, I moved several xfce packages to the 4.12 ppa
[10:12] <bluesabre> I'll update the description like you indicatored
[10:12] <Noskcaj> cool
[10:12] <bluesabre> *indicated
[10:13] <Noskcaj> SHould i also prep our non-xfce stuff? e.g. gnome-mines, abiword, etc.
[10:14] <Noskcaj> g'night
[10:14] <slickymasterWork> knome, there's a typo in one of the strings we wrote for including the pkexec policy files in favor of gksu in the documentation
[10:15] <slickymasterWork> knome: the string in question is "Please note that for an application to run successfully with <application>pkexec</application>, it will need to ship a pkexec policy file. All default applications in Xubuntu that might need to be ran with adminstrative rights come with pkexec policy files."
[10:16] <slickymasterWork> it has to be 'administrative' not adminstrative
[10:17] <slickymasterWork> since now I'm not able to push it, I'll do it tonight at home, if you haven't done it yet
[10:23] <bluesabre> elfy: Re-enabled wrap workspaces on window drag, changes committed to bzr, not yet uploaded to ubuntu
[10:23] <bluesabre> let me know if we need to change something else
[10:23] <ochosi> hey bluesabre 
[10:23] <bluesabre> and please, add comments to the pad if you disagree with any setting
[10:24] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[10:26] <ochosi> fwiw, wrapping workspaces also breaks the tiling feature of xfwm4 for left/right
[10:27] <bluesabre> yeah, but that doesn't matter if only one workspace is used
[10:27] <ochosi> haven't tested that yet
[10:27] <bluesabre> that's the setting I usually have, 1 workspace, fun with tiling
[10:27] <Unit193> bluesabre: Exactly, it's just annoying to people adding more.
[10:28] <ochosi> bluesabre: it does break it here for me
[10:28] <bluesabre> Unit193: right, so fixed in the next release
[10:28] <Unit193> Yep, so I saw.
[10:28] <ochosi> ah wait
[10:28] <ochosi> it doesn't :)
[10:28] <bluesabre> Unit193: any comment on the defaults?
[10:29] <ochosi> bluesabre: do you still have that bug with the greeter staying black after a while?
[10:29] <bluesabre> ochosi: haven't tested lately
[10:29] <bluesabre> been busy with other things
[10:31] <Unit193> bluesabre: 1. Only I still disagree with xfwm workspace = 1.  2. There's also the scroll on titlebar change to add, no?  3. The xfce4-panel isn't complete is it?  Doesn't have where the indicators fit for example.  Rest of the stuff on there I'm generally indifferent to.
[10:32] <Unit193> I personally use: separator (expands), xfpm, indicator, systray
[10:32] <bluesabre> scroll on titlebar was added for 14.04
[10:32] <Unit193> I see.
[10:32] <bluesabre> but I'll put that in there
[10:32] <Unit193> Eh, it's not a utopic change, couldn't remember for sure when it was.
[10:33] <bluesabre> good catch on the indicators
[10:36] <bluesabre> for the number of workspaces, I'd be fine with restoring as well if most of the team thinks it would be best to leave as is... I want to have settings we all agree on
[10:37] <Unit193> Well, we won't have that part for sure, but still. :P
[10:38] <ochosi> i'm really a fan of trying new settings in 14.10
[10:38] <ochosi> gathering feedback and then re-evaluating them for 15.04
[10:38] <ochosi> i think the lts+1 release is ideal for that
[10:39] <ochosi> (less people think about upgrading immediately)
[10:39] <knome> slickymasterWork, re: saucy branch, yes
[10:40] <slickymasterWork> morning knome 
[10:40] <slickymasterWork> yeah, it would be the sane thing to do
[10:40] <slickymasterWork> who does it?
[10:41] <knome> i can do that if i still have the access for that
[10:41] <knome> and remember how it's done...
[10:42] <slickymasterWork> ok, did you saw what I said re our changes to the pkexec strings in the  -docs?
[10:42] <knome> done.
[10:42] <slickymasterWork> lol
[10:42] <knome> i did
[10:42] <bluesabre> won't be around for most of the day again today
[10:42] <bluesabre> so...
[10:42] <slickymasterWork> thanks for that knome 
[10:43] <knome> i guess i could fix the string soon as well
[10:43] <knome> which file was it?
[10:43] <slickymasterWork> I can do it tonight if you're swapped with your real 'work'
[10:43] <knome> i am, but... that happens, and clients can wait! ;)
[10:43] <bluesabre> !team | please see the xubuntu-default-settings etherpad and discuss settings... what's missing, what you think should change: http://pad.ubuntu.com/diA31J1P9e
[10:43] <slickymasterWork> don't remember it now
[10:44] <bluesabre> (that never works for me)
[10:44] <knome> ok, i'll grep for it
[10:44] <knome> bluesabre, :D
[10:44] <slickymasterWork> is not that urgent that it can't wait a few hours and I'll do it tonight
[10:44] <knome> !team | ^
[10:45] <knome> bluesabre, weird.
[10:45] <slickymasterWork> the bot doesn't likes bluesabre 
[10:45] <bluesabre> the bot only listens to knome D:
[10:45] <slickymasterWork> ;)
[10:45] <knome> heh
[10:45] <knome> maybe it's set to ignore him :P
[10:45] <bluesabre> makes sense
[10:45] <knome> i don't know... it shouldn't really
[10:45] <knome> sometimes people set ignores on trolls
[10:46] <bluesabre> :'(
[10:46] <knome> maybe one of those is too broad
[10:46] <knome> asking for other factoids work?
[10:46] <bluesabre> !fi | knome
[10:46] <knome> yep, weird
[10:46] <slickymasterWork> ah ah ah
[10:46] <knome> bluesabre, what if you ask for the same factoid again?
[10:47] <slickymasterWork> that's why, the bot only understands finnish
[10:47] <Unit193> I don't see bluesabre!~bluesabre@ubuntu/member/bluesabre matching any.
[10:47] <bluesabre> !team | sorry the the unnecessary ping (please see the more important ones above)
[10:47]  * knome shrugs
[10:47] <bluesabre> who knows
[10:47] <knome> maybe the bot doesn't want you to call the same factoid twice in a row
[10:48] <slickymasterWork> hey Unit193. Did you saw my answer to the question you made to knome re your renewal?
[10:48] <ochosi> bluesabre: about the greeter bug, i've never been able to reproduce, just remembered that you had that issue at some point
[10:48] <bluesabre> anyhoo, np
[10:48] <Unit193> slickymasterWork: Yeppers.
[10:48] <knome> huh.. i have some weird docs branch
[10:48] <bluesabre> I'll send out a call for package translations today
[10:49] <slickymasterWork> weird how knome?
[10:49] <knome> has some hardcoded paths
[10:49] <bluesabre> (and include a note to remember the docs translations)
[10:49] <knome> bluesabre, cheers ;)
[10:49] <slickymasterWork> bluesabre: finishing menulibre and heading on to mugshot
[10:49] <slickymasterWork> eh eh bluesabre, thanks
[10:49] <Unit193> knome: bzr status / log?
[10:50] <bluesabre> slickymasterWork: thanks
[10:50] <knome> Unit193, gone already, diff didn't show anything to keep
[10:50] <slickymasterWork> bzr is acting up
[10:51] <Unit193> Always is, what's up this time?
[10:51] <knome> typo fix with updated pot pushed
[10:51] <slickymasterWork> great knome, thanks
[10:52] <slickymasterWork> that string is the only one missing in my translation
[10:52] <knome> heh
[10:52] <knome> good for the portugues
[10:52] <slickymasterWork> the finnish guys are loosing the race :P
[10:52] <Unit193> Already missed today's 6am cutoff.
[10:52] <knome> +e
[10:52] <knome> Unit193, "aww" :P
[10:53] <knome> slickymasterWork, hah, as if it mattered as long as all the strings were there on release;)
[10:53] <slickymasterWork> knome:  don't forget menulibre and mugshot
[10:53] <Unit193> Oooh!  It's 7am, still a couple minutes! :P
[10:53] <slickymasterWork> yeah, just messing with you
[10:53] <knome> slickymasterWork, yep.
[10:55] <slickymasterWork> Unit193: in six months time the answer to the renewal question will be the same :P
[10:56] <Unit193> Meh, could change, I don't do a a ton with them as-is.
[10:57] <slickymasterWork> you're work is need, and awesome, behind the spotlights  
[10:57] <slickymasterWork> s/you're/your
[10:57] <slickymasterWork> s/need/needed
[10:58]  * slickymasterWork wonders off to smoke a cigarette
[11:10] <elfy> bluesabre: thanks - looked at pad also, looks sane enough 
[11:11] <bluesabre> elfy: if you have any changes, let me know
[11:11] <bluesabre> not trying to pull anything over anybody's eyes, I like to work in the open and well before freezes
[11:12] <knome> slickymasterWork, you are right... nothing quite gives me the same warm, happy feeling than Unit193 contributing to xubuntu...
[11:12] <slickymasterWork> :) you and me alike knome 
[11:12] <bluesabre> slickymasterWork, knome: me too
[11:12] <bluesabre> I feel all fuzzy now
[11:12]  * slickymasterWork considers him a must have
[11:12] <Unit193> I sware knome is on something.
[11:13] <knome> i'm always on something
[11:13] <elfy> bluesabre: the wrap one was the issue for me - adding a workspace is easy - but with wrap gone I had to report 2 bugs ;)
[11:13] <bluesabre> elfy: gotcha
[11:13] <bluesabre> alrighty, I'll be out for a while now, bbl
[11:13] <elfy> have a good day :)
[11:13] <bluesabre> you too
[11:13] <knome> yep, good day to bluesabre 
[11:14]  * elfy is now on 3 and a half day weekend
[11:14] <slickymasterWork> damn elfy, how I envy you :P
[11:14] <ochosi> ttyl bluesabre 
[11:15] <elfy> slickymasterWork: until payday ;)
[11:15] <knome> considering taking tomorrow off as well, but unlikely to happen
[11:15] <slickymasterWork> well, if you knew the payday amounts these days over here elfy 
[12:08] <elfy> image is broken with this lightdm bug - if that's what it is
[12:09] <bluesabre> didn't add any new settings changes yesterday, so not my fault
[12:09] <elfy> lol
[12:09] <elfy> got the same issue in my other install atm
[12:11] <Unit193> Carp, don't reboot or update the other 'un.
[12:12] <elfy> it's this one that works 
[12:12] <elfy> the other better one is unfortunately updated
[12:13] <Unit193> We're not the only ones in here using utopic right?
[12:13] <elfy> don't thinks so 
[12:25] <knome> team factoid updated.
[12:25] <elfy> thanks knome 
[12:27] <knome> np
[14:40] <slickymasterWork> bluesabre, I believe there's a typo in one of the Mugshot's strings in https://translations.launchpad.net/mugshot/trunk 
[14:40] <slickymasterWork> in the string: "This stable release fixed a crash that occured when saving user details in a non-English locale. This release also included an updated translation template and new translations."
[14:40] <slickymasterWork> shouldn't it be 'occurred' instead of 'occured'?
[14:50] <elfy> ochosi bluesabre - found another oddity it seems - window manager theme is set to default - which is blue, thought it was supposed to be greybird 
[14:51] <elfy> oh nvm
[14:52] <elfy> using startx it appears it starts the xfce session instead of xubuntu
[14:53] <elfy> brb
[17:32] <ochosi> slickymaster: please keep the guidelines for xfce docs in mind when taking screenshots (theme+icons)
[17:32] <ochosi> remember when we worked on xfdesktop
[17:35] <elfy> evening ochosi 
[17:52] <brainwash> Noskcaj: MRE for xfdesktop4 should be doable or? http://lpaste.net/110504
[17:54] <brainwash> if no, maybe we should just cherry pick one or more patches
[18:12] <ochosi> pleia2: how's the xfce bounty marketing thingy coming along?
[18:13]  * elfy hasn't had time to look at his action from last meeting yet ochosi 
[18:14] <pleia2> oh, I should do that
[18:15] <elfy> thanks pleia2 - I'll change the logs :D
[18:15] <pleia2> ochosi: I'll make some plans tonight and let you know if I have questions
[18:15] <ochosi> pleia2: thanks, that's great!
[18:16] <ochosi> elfy: would be great if you could look into it until the meeting, otherwise we'll just carry it forward till the next meeting
[18:19] <elfy> if I can I will 
[18:19] <ochosi> bbl
[19:02] <elfy> Unit193: had to create a .rules file to get lightdm to work
[19:03] <elfy> http://pastebin.com/BL3ADDMG if you're interested
[19:35] <brainwash> "Simply logging off provokes the back screen symptom (!)"
[19:35] <brainwash> this sounds familiar
[20:07] <Noskcaj> brainwash, yeah, we can. Could you file it?
[20:08] <brainwash> Noskcaj: maybe
[20:08] <brainwash> what about the regression potential?
[20:08] <brainwash> we got a lp report
[20:15] <brainwash> it's a bit confusing.. elfy confirmed that a patch has fixed the desktop freezing bug, but other users continued to experience it, so the patch was removed upstream (before 4.11.7)
[20:16] <brainwash> Noskcaj: did your first mre request have any success?
[20:17] <brainwash> the panel plugin one
[20:17] <Noskcaj> brainwash, It's been ignored
[20:17] <brainwash> ouch :(
[20:18] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, Could you look at bug 1339911
[22:58] <Unit193> xubutrello: card 85 link
[22:58] <Unit193> I'd hope this late it won't land, and nothing really has hit the tracking bug #1358209.
[22:58] <xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/lgQiG8tA/85-update-the-docs-networking-section-for-the-new-networkmanager
[22:59] <Unit193> Bug #1351977
[23:11] <ochosi> Unit193: are there grave differences?
[23:11]  * ochosi hadn't even noticed there was a new release
[23:12] <Unit193> IIRC, nm-tool no longer exists, which we talk about in the doc.  nmcli is the newer, cooler one (TUI, ncurses).
[23:19] <ochosi> Unit193: ah right, maybe we have in fact talked about it
[23:19] <Unit193> ochosi: We have.