[02:02] <zerothis> well I got lubuntu installed on my laptop with an Ali/Trident card using the "forcevesa" option. Now, the installed version blank screens, "forcevesa", "nomodeset", "acpi=off", all fail to avoid it. Only the installation option with forcevesa works. Not Live and not installed.
[02:02] <holstein> nomodeset is what i use
[02:02] <holstein> zerothis: i found that with lubuntu, i had to specify them post installation
[02:03] <holstein> i would actually just find an xorg.conf that works, and put it in place, and try it
[02:03] <holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1270209 for example
[02:05] <zerothis> I have specified them post installation in grub edit and using the liveCD to 'boot from hard disk'. Ineffective. I have tried mounting my installation from terminal after running the installer, but it won't mount. So I have no access to change the grub or xorg.conf.
[02:06] <holstein> ?
[02:06] <holstein> what do you mean, "i have tried mounting my installation"
[02:07] <holstein> i mean, if you boot it, and you black screen, its mounted, and running, just not supporting the graphics card
[02:07] <holstein> if you run a live CD, and cant mount your drive/partition, maybe you have a bad hard drive that is actually causing all your problems
[02:10] <zerothis> I mean, run installer from LiveCD, Alt+F1, sudo mount /dev/sda5, error about an unrecognized file system. Nothing else on the LiveCD works, everything but the installer goes to blank screen. The drive was running XP as well as XP can run before I overwrote it.
[02:11] <holstein> zerothis: as i said, if i cant mount the drive, i would test it.. its plausible that the drive is bad, since *all* drives will fail..
[02:11] <holstein> zerothis: if the live CD works, and the installed system doesnt, that could be due to failing hard drive, and nothing to do with the options you are passing
[02:12] <zerothis> "try lubuntu" does not work. How would I test the drive from the installer?
[02:14] <holstein> zerothis: i actually use whatever tool i feel would test the drive best based on the brand.. but, there are tools such as "gmartcontrol" that run tests
[02:14] <holstein> i would run a short test, then, a longer test that may take some time
[02:15] <holstein> or, since i have other drives laying about, i might just pop a new one in, and install, and test.. and if it works ok with a new drive, i woudl test the drive later
[02:15] <phillw> zerothis: when you boot the CD / USB  you will be offerred the option to run a test on the cd
[02:15] <holstein> thats on the installation media, though
[02:16] <zerothis> phillw: yes, the CD checked fine. Then I installed
[02:16] <holstein> i think the actual hard drive is failing.. since, the live environment works, and the installed one fails with a "black screen", though, the error when trying to mount the partition that installed is "unrecongized filesystem"
[02:17] <holstein> i mean, we know the filesystem is ext4, and lubuntu live CD's *can* recognize it.. and, that the live CD supports the grahpical environment on the hard drive
[02:17] <holstein> i feel, testing the actual hard drive will show an error
[02:18] <zerothis> I'm attempting tests now. So why wouldn't the "try lubuntu without installing" work then (since the live environment works)?
[02:18] <holstein> zerothis: not following that
[02:19] <holstein> zerothis: the "try lubuntu without installing" *is* the live environment
[02:19] <holstein> you stated the live CD works, correct?
[02:20] <holstein> id say, dont "attempt" to test the hard drive.. its a good idea to test *all* your drives since *all* drives fail.. but, its time consuming to do so.. you want to be sure you are doing it properly
[02:20] <zerothis> "try lubuntu without installing" boots to blank screen even with "forcevesa". but choosing the install option on the LiveCD menu will boot to the installation environment (same as try environment, right?) with the "forcevesa" option.
[02:20] <holstein> http://www.technibble.com/gsmartcontrol-monitor-test-hard-drive-smart-data/
[02:25] <zerothis> problem, how to run gsmartcontrol while the installer is running. I suppose there's a command-line way to run it in X. Or, how to run things when the installer is the desktop in X
[02:26] <holstein> you cant
[02:26] <holstein> i run all of that *before* the install
[02:26] <holstein> i am assuming you have an install that has failed that you are asking about
[02:26] <holstein> is that the case?
[02:30] <zerothis> I assumed the installation works, I just can't see it. During the boot, before X loads, its happily scrolling plain text linuxy things on the screen like it always does when boot is not quiet, until a few lines after the ALI15x3 errors (my videocard).  I could Alt+F2 and play an audio file to test that theory I suppose. so, now that I have a drive with lubuntu on it, I should format it?
[02:30] <zerothis> I have a terminal up in the installation environment now, gsmart testing now...
[02:30] <holstein> !tty
[02:31] <holstein> thats what i try on black screens.. though, i'll just put a vesa xorg in place
[02:31] <zerothis> nope, gsmartcontrolcrashes. it's requesting GTK things (overlay-scrollbar etc)
[02:32] <holstein> you will have those issue with any desktop components
[02:32] <zerothis> from the blank screen, ctrl + alt + F1-F6 don't do anything visible. Again, I presume it swtched, but I just can't see it.
[02:32] <holstein> zerothis: you cant, though
[02:33] <holstein> zerothis: you cant assume or presume anything
[02:33] <holstein> if you literally see nothing on the screen, it could be kernel panic'd or in any state
[02:34]  * zerothis stubbornly assumes the sun will rise tomorrow
[02:34] <zerothis> but I understand your point
[02:35] <holstein> yeah.. because, one day, it wont rise.. and that hard drive will fail.. and *all* of that hardware will fail
[02:35] <holstein> thats the only reason i say
[02:35] <zerothis> is there a non-gui testing option. the command-line don't scare me none
[02:35] <holstein> on older hardware, i'll just start testing
[02:36] <holstein> zerothis: you can use whatever you like.. i like the gsmartcontrol tool. i use a live CD called "ultimate boot cd" that has vendor specific tools in it
[02:36] <holstein> zerothis: the big thing to remember is, this is *not* a fix.. so, dont waste time on it
[02:36] <holstein> zerothis: i am merely saying, i like to test with i see those "issues" on hardware like that with linux
[02:38] <zerothis> but its knowledge. if the drive is fine, I then know its something else. If its bad, I know what to fix. Older hardware, hmph, I have a 30 year old Commodore 64 that sat totally submerged in water overnight, was dryed with a hair dryer, and continues to work to this day.They don't makem like they used to
[02:39] <holstein> sure.. but, you have a special case here
[02:40] <holstein> you also have older hardware with no promise of linux support from the creators
[02:40] <Ahmuck> zerothis: this is fixable.  i've had the same problem happent to me before on a machine.
[02:41] <holstein> zerothis: i say, just start at the beginning and try and rule issues out. those graphics adapters can be challenging.. i have had via chips in the past that just dont work with linux..
[02:42] <zerothis> again, Commodore 64, Little Unix, I'm just sayin
[02:42] <holstein> zerothis: that hardware *will* fail too, at some point.. if you want to assume its good, that fine
[02:43] <holstein> in that case, i would try an older version of ubuntu.. 12.04 live CD, for example.. i would see how that runs live, and make a note of the graphics driver in use, and the kernel version.. etc
[02:46] <zerothis> ok then
[02:47] <holstein> i also like using the mini iso's...
[02:47] <holstein> !mini
[02:47] <holstein> they give the quickest way to get a text-only system up and running.. small download size..
[02:48] <zerothis> thanks again
[02:48] <holstein> if i can get 14.04 minimal installed text only, then, i can test the drive, or other hardware from there.. and move on to the graphics card support
[02:48] <holstein> Ahmuck may have just the answer for you.. not sure..
[02:49] <holstein> Ahmuck: would you like to share? you have the same graphics card? ALI/trident?
[02:50] <zerothis> he shared, thanks
[02:58] <zerothis> what CLI utilities precisely would you use?
[03:06] <holstein> simple ones, actually ..that test whatever i need to test
[03:06] <zerothis> names?
[03:07] <holstein> http://www.linuxjournal.com/magazine/monitoring-hard-disks-smart for example
[03:07] <holstein> zerothis: the specific names depend on what im trying to test and for what, and in what.. and what my resources are
[03:08] <holstein> zerothis: this is something would spend about 15 minutes with, or just move on
[03:08]  * zerothis turns to the plant on his desk, "Thou art god"
[03:08] <holstein> this is *not* a fix, for anything, as i said, so, if you are not finding your way with getting helpful results, then, just move on
[04:14] <Ahmuck> # lxpanel <profile> config file. Manually editing is not recommended.
[04:14] <Ahmuck> # Use preference dialog in lxpanel to adjust config when you can.
[04:15] <Ahmuck> is there a reason that lubuntu is recommending that a user not manually edit the lxpanel file?
[04:15] <holstein> potential breakage. but, thats from lxde
[04:16] <holstein> the gui is the prefered tool in that case, it seems. might cause inconsistencies to try and use both.. but, i would just make a backup of the file and try settings if i felt i needed to
[04:19] <holstein> Ahmuck: anything in particular you are trying to facilitate in that file?
[04:20] <holstein> i think at some point, i would just strip down to openbox, if i wanted really granular control over everything with config files..
[06:33] <swift110> Hey
[07:27] <swift110> Co
[07:27] <swift110> Cool
[15:07] <malaphus> anyone know where the documentation is for lightdm-gtk-greeter?
[15:32] <firc4975d08c> hi
[15:35] <firc4975d08c> i would like to install some latex editor on lubuntu, but editors i found are KDE or GNOME how will it influence the performence?
[15:42] <phillw> firc4975d08c: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LaTeX
[15:45] <testdr> firc4975d08c: if you only want to write letters, you should check   tk-brief
[15:57] <Ahmuck> hrm, well i've managed to break my lubuntu login
[15:57] <Ahmuck> on a machine
[15:58] <Ahmuck> The menu option "Default Applications for LXSession"  (aka lxsession) allows you to turn off all autostart applications.
[15:58] <Ahmuck> I suspect this is why I am no longer able to get past the greeter screen?
[15:59] <Ahmuck> I did however find something that may be causing the double icon and hope to test in the next hour, though if somebody wanted to chime in, i'd enjoy that.
[15:59] <Ahmuck> would appreciate that.
[15:59] <Ahmuck>  /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter-ubuntu-conf
[15:59] <Ahmuck> - indicators=~language;~session;~power
[16:00] <Ahmuck> is the lightdm-gtk-greeter placing an icon in the systray as an indicator as well as what is getting placed there by autostart?
[16:02] <testdr> Ahmuck: you are playing around without a fallback (=working) user-account? You have never setup a second admin-user-account?
[16:05] <Ahmuck> testdr: i'm able to access via tty5
[16:05] <Ahmuck> i don't store data or config files on my local user account.  those all get stored to a sd card
[16:06] <Ahmuck> user config files
[16:06] <Ahmuck> btw, did you know that having a password login is a liablity
[16:06] <Ahmuck> ?
[16:07] <phillw> Ahmuck: if they steal your computer, password protection is the least of your worries :P
[16:11] <Ahmuck> no, really.  password accounts, or user control is not for protection of documents.  document protection (and user configuration) can be performed on removable media with encryption with encryption keys held on seperate removable media requiring both removable media to work
[16:12] <Ahmuck> if user A access doc A on the network and user B the same document it creates a record
[16:12] <Ahmuck> of who access the document
[16:12] <Ahmuck> but if user A has his password stolen and then access doc B which he is not supposed to then user A gets the blame
[16:13] <Ahmuck> however, if there is passwordless login, user A is able to claim plausable denability.
[16:13] <Ahmuck> password logins really are there for blame assignment
[16:14] <Ahmuck> and there really is no such thing as security as such
[16:15] <Ahmuck> if your documents are encrypted on removable media then it does not matter what account is used and you become the responsible party for protecting your own documents.  the responsiblity then rests with the user, not the system that blames the user
[16:17] <phillw> Ahmuck: just create user accounts with encryption.. it is an option.
[16:17] <Ahmuck> not an option.  physical or remote access with a comprimised accounts won't make a bit of difference (and it is happening)
[16:18] <phillw> Ahmuck: and this is a discussion better suited to #lubuntu-offtopic and I suggest you move it there
[16:18] <Ahmuck> anywho, back to the login issue.  so lxsession allows you to turn off all autostart functions.  i assume this means PAM, SSH, etc.
[16:19] <Ahmuck> phillw: sorta.  i'm not able to log in because of password requirement, which i realized today should not be a requirement
[16:19] <phillw> none of those are enabled by default on a desktop system, you are thinking about server security, not protecting someone's home computer / laptop.
[16:19] <Ahmuck> a really open system with each person responsible for their own documents prevents such messes
[16:20] <phillw> Ahmuck: Which is not a lubuntu support issue.
[16:20] <Ahmuck> 1. does lxsession really allow you to turn off all autostart functions?
[16:21] <Ahmuck> 2. is it necessary to require lightdm (this is the login screen function, or part of the screen logout/login function) as part of the os?
[16:22] <Ahmuck> 3. is there a way to turn off login authentication and lightdm
[16:23] <phillw> Ahmuck: As I told you yesterday.. Put your views / questions into a document and email it to me. I will ensure the devs get to read it and you will have a detailed answer. This is not thee area to discuss such things.
[16:25] <Ahmuck> how does having a support channel and putting them in a document help me utilize the support channel?
[16:25] <Ahmuck> i need support for the login
[16:25] <Ahmuck> lightdm, etc.
[16:25] <Ahmuck> is lubuntu not a support channel?
[16:27] <phillw> Ahmuck: it works, you are asking for details of functionality.. that is best done on the mailing list or going and hunting down what documentation there is.
[16:27] <Ahmuck> back to the lightdm conf file.  is it placing an icon in the indicator tray?
[16:28] <phillw> no idea.
[16:28] <Ahmuck> i've been combing through documentation and code on lubuntu site
[16:28] <Ahmuck> that is the best answer i've had yet, it's honest
[16:28] <phillw> again you are asking about the innards.. so email is your best route.
[16:29] <Ahmuck> is there no documentation on lightdm?
[16:29] <phillw> Ahmuck: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LightDM ?
[16:30] <Ahmuck> yes, found it.
[16:30] <Ahmuck> was looking at ubuntu site
[16:30] <Ahmuck> er, lubuntu site
[16:30] <phillw> I'm sure you can use a search engine ? Coz I found that as answer #1 with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightDM as #2
[16:30] <phillw> Ahmuck: LightDM is not lubuntu specific
[16:31] <phillw> if an application starts as lx it is specific to lxde, otherwise it is an application that we use...
[16:32] <Ahmuck> k, back to lxsession.  on the other computer i've turned the mousepad off as a startup option but it does not recognize it
[16:34] <phillw> Ahmuck: that could be an ACPI issue, have a search for the model and trackpad via your favourite search engine
[16:34] <firc4975d08c> hi
[16:35] <phillw> wb firc4975d08c
[16:36] <firc4975d08c> i use lubuntu and i would like to install some latex enviroment, but i found KDE and Gnome only. how it will influence the performence?
[16:36] <phillw> firc4975d08c: please read the earlier replies :)
[16:37] <firc4975d08c> sorry, but i reconected. may i anyhow gain acces to them?
[16:38] <phillw> (16:42:53) phillw: firc4975d08c: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LaTeX
[16:38] <phillw> (16:45:55) testdr: firc4975d08c: if you only want to write letters, you should check   tk-brief
[16:40] <firc4975d08c> thx
[16:40] <firc4975d08c> one more question
[16:41] <firc4975d08c> what is wb? :)
[16:41] <firc4975d08c> welcome bro? :)
[16:41] <phillw> wb = welcome back
[16:42] <firc4975d08c> fair enough
[16:50] <firc4975d08c> but is this a problem to install KDE application on lubuntu, will it work, what impact wil it make on computer performence will it impact be permanent or exist only while application is running?
[16:50] <firc4975d08c> ass well with GNOME apps
[16:52] <phillw> firc4975d08c: when you go to install the kde one, it will tell you how much extra stuff it needs. As a general rule kde is lighter than GNOME libraries.
[16:53] <phillw> you can say 'N' to install the kde one once it says how much disk space., applications it needs and then do the same with the GNOME on.
[16:53] <Ahmuck> @syndaemon -d -t
[16:53] <Ahmuck> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Mouse#Disable_touchpad_while_typing
[16:53] <Ahmuck> i need the @ sign?
[16:54] <phillw> Ahmuck: evidently, as that is in the code line
[16:55] <firc4975d08c> ok, but not the disc space is what i worry about, but ram and cpu
[16:56] <Ahmuck> http://pastebin.com/aTYzVXY9
[16:57] <phillw> firc4975d08c: try both, and see which is better
[16:57] <firc4975d08c> will KDE run permanently, will i need to controll it manually, or maybe it gonna run only with my KDE app?
[16:59] <phillw> firc4975d08c: kde is very well behaved, you should not see any nasty things running in the background. Same actually goes for GNOME, just that kde libraries tend to be smaller
[16:59] <firc4975d08c> ok. thx verry much
[16:59] <Ahmuck> firc4975d08c: i use kexi on lubuntu
[17:03] <firc4975d08c> and how is it connected with the topic? :)
[17:04] <firc4975d08c> cause i don't follow
[17:05] <firc4975d08c> is it KDE app?
[17:05] <firc4975d08c> oh right, it is
[17:06] <phillw> firc4975d08c: http://www.kde.org/applications/office/
[17:06] <phillw> I can go dig :D .. We are all the same family and share stuff.
[17:07] <firc4975d08c> so this all KDE stuff are libraries only, and aren't gonna run while not being in use by other program?
[17:09] <phillw> firc4975d08c: they should not, we share the same base
[17:10] <firc4975d08c> :)
[17:12] <firc4975d08c> ok, kile is loading dowh :)
[17:12] <firc4975d08c> *down
[17:14] <phillw> good, sorry for delays, but I'm busy getting a padawan area created and have both a senior dev for moin (wiki system that, e.g., ubuntu uses) and the TL from our artwork team together.
[17:38] <ianorlin> yeah LaTeX pulls in lots of dependencies
[17:39] <ianorlin> but has lots of useful stuff
[17:46] <phillw> firc4975d08c:  ^^ read what ian said
[21:50] <dim78> hello
[22:00] <phillw> !ask | dim78
[22:08] <dim78> hello
[22:08] <dim78> can boot my lubuntu partition
[22:21] <phillw> dim78: can you please tell us what the error message is that you get when you try
[22:22] <phillw> dim78:  "it does not work" will not grab people to help you.
[22:24] <dim78> hello Phillw, I have this pc with win7 and lubuntu partition ... everything was ok and now lit and the pc does not boot lubuntu, the screen goes black
[22:26] <phillw> dim78: are using lubuntu to boot win7  or using win 7 to start lubuntu?
[22:26] <dim78> dual boot
[22:29] <phillw> dim78: I'm not skilled at dual boot... ask on #ubuntu there should be some people who can help. (The boot system is same for all flavours).
[22:30] <dim78> thanks
[22:30] <dim78> ;)