[00:53] <elopio> balloons: still around? I'm trying the tmp home for reminders but I still get:
[00:53] <elopio> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8295014/
[00:54] <balloons> elopio, I am
[00:55] <balloons> invalid option -s.. how are you launching?
[00:55] <elopio> balloons: we can ignore that one. I am writing a desktop file that add the -s
[00:55] <elopio> it gives the error, but launches with sandbox, so that part is working.
[00:56] <elopio> this is the unity log http://paste.ubuntu.com/8295034/
[00:56] <elopio> it complaints about a missing desktop file hint.
[00:57] <elopio> all the logs are left on /home/phablet/.cache, so I think that ubuntu-app-launch is not using my tmp dir.
[00:59] <elopio> it's weird, the -s comes from the desktop file. So why does it need a hint if it's finding it.
[01:04] <balloons> elopio, hmm
[01:05] <balloons> can you share the code?
[01:16] <elopio> balloons: sorry, I have to go and most of it is just hacked into my phone. I'll get it to a branch when I return.
[01:19] <balloons> elopio, we'll chat tomorrow :-)
[05:37] <pitti> Good morning
[07:23] <elfy> has someone been playing with the image tracker site - if so can they unplay :(
[07:23] <elfy> filtering doesn't work here and you can't stop the testcase showing in results page
[07:30] <elfy> http://tinyurl.com/pvrox6p note the products turned off in filter, being ignored in the main frame
[13:15] <balloons> elfy, you can blame knome and me for the playing
[14:39] <elfy> balloons: well I didn't like to apportion blame - but I had a fairly good idea :p
[14:41] <balloons> then you'll forgive me when it's still broken until tomorrow yes? :-)
[14:47] <elfy> I can do that - however no forgiveness will be forthcoming on Thursday :p
[15:04] <elfy> balloons: not sure if you saw the bug for vbox today, vboxvideo is the culprit seemingly - not loaded
[17:26] <elopio> balloons: this makes all the reminders tests pass:
[17:26] <elopio> https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/reminders-app/fix1363599-upstart_and_sandbox/+merge/233832
[17:26] <elopio> we still have the temp dir to solve, and we might simplify the desktop file, ted is thinking about that.
[17:26] <elopio> but those can be done on following branches.
[17:28] <balloons> elopio, we really require a desktop file eh?
[17:29] <elopio> balloons: that or to convince ted to pass arguments from ubuntu-app-launch to the exec.
[17:29] <balloons> I take it you tried?
[17:55] <elopio> balloons: sorry. Tried to convince him?
[17:55] <elopio> yes, he said that at best, it won't happen soon. But he doesn't like graphical apps to receive arguments on the command line.
[17:59] <elopio> balloons: you told me that the most recent version of the calendar was on the store, right?
[18:08] <balloons> elopio, when I told you that, it was correct :-)
[18:08] <balloons> elopio, let me share something with you
[18:08] <balloons> heck brendand might find this useful too
[18:08] <balloons> elopio, brendand https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnZdnhOl8MU5dDJseW1vT1N5RkJvLUJHZTdhalRVd1E&usp=sharing#gid=1
[18:09] <balloons> I'm sorry it never dawned on me before to share that. It automagically tracks everything core apps
[18:09] <balloons> so don't update any of the fields please :-)
[18:10] <elopio> it's weird that the logs show a version lower than 0.4.440
[18:10] <elopio> but anyway we need a new release to get updated results.
[18:11] <balloons> elopio, sure, let me build and push one
[18:11] <elopio> thanks balloons.
[18:14] <balloons> popey pushed one this morning though looks like
[18:35] <balloons> elopio, can we brainstorm on fixing tests that have PAM authentication requirements on them (file manager and terminal)
[18:36] <elopio> balloons: sure.
[18:36] <elopio> this is a problem only on desktop, for now.
[18:36] <elopio> oh, no, filemanager and terminal. I was thinking just about credentials.
[18:38] <balloons> elopio, yea, ogra mentioned dev mode hits rtm tomorrow, so rtm will start blowing up too
[18:39] <elopio> balloons: I'm not sure what's the problem, I haven't payed a lot of attention to file manager and terminal.
[18:39] <elopio> do we need to unlock after opening them or something like that?
[18:43] <balloons> elopio, me neither :-) But PAM support was added. So if a device is locked, you don't get access to terminal at all, and file manager is REALLY limited access unless you enter the password or pin into the authentication box
[18:44] <elopio> balloons: I see a button called unlock for full access. We just need to know the password that CI is setting on the phones.
[18:45] <elopio> or alternatively, launch the app on an unsafe mode to run most of the tests.
[18:45] <elopio> btw, this button is really hard to click. It triggers the bottom edge gesture.
[18:45] <balloons> those are more or less the two options
[18:45] <balloons> the file manager requires more setup yea
[18:45] <balloons> the terminal throws it in your face :-)
[18:46] <balloons> I'm not sure how we could launch the app in an unsafe mode
[18:46] <elopio> balloons: I would like a combination of both. For tests that are not related to security, use the unsafe mode. And then do a small suite of tests with security.
[18:46] <balloons> elopio, yep, you mirror my thoughts
[18:46] <balloons> we should test the unlocking works
[18:47] <balloons> but everything else makes sense to run outside of it. The trouble is, I don't know if that's possible at all
[18:47] <balloons> I mean, not unless we send something to the app to not trigger PAM
[18:50] <balloons> I have to refresh my knowledge on things.. maybe it would be possible to mock that we don't have a pin on the device when we actually do
[18:50] <balloons> and vice versa of course
[18:57] <balloons> elopio, rev 441 of calendar is in the store
[18:57] <elopio> thanks balloons
[18:58] <elopio> balloons: we need help from the devs here.
[18:58] <elopio> maybe use an laternate desktop file that launches the app for testing purposes and works as before, if that's doable.
[18:58] <elopio> or a way to disable the password. We are running the tests with python, so the tests are not confined and they can do anything.
[18:59] <elopio> I don't know. But we need testability helpers for this.
[18:59] <balloons> I agree we need helpers :-)
[19:01] <elopio> balloons: do you agree it's not us the once who should define and implement them?
[19:01] <elopio> I think we should just push to get somebody to give us an app in a state that we can automate.
[19:01] <balloons> the helpers? well sadly it falls on my plate at least
[19:01] <balloons> you might be in the clear :-
[19:02] <balloons> this is a stop-gap solution until the PAM is implemented on a wider scale than inside individual apps
[19:03] <balloons> in theory we could then argue for the same reason those apps are required to have a testing mode if you will in lieu of use mocking something
[19:03] <balloons> elopio, I agree it's not QA who should decide how PAM is implemented
[19:06] <elopio> balloons: but what I'm saying is that if developers keep adding features like this locking mechanism, and they don't think of how to test them
[19:06] <elopio> we need to stop adding patches or solving the problems you and me.
[19:06] <elopio> next time they need to involve us on the planning, and now they need to add a testability mode for things.
[19:15] <elfy> testing - something that everyone agrees should be done - actions rarely speak as loud as the words
[19:30] <elopio> balloons: so according to ted, now we need a different approach instead of using a temp home dir.
[19:31] <elopio> one more thing to the bucket.
[19:31] <elopio> why don't we list all the testability issues that we are finding, and push high management to get somebody to fix them in a clever way?
[19:33] <balloons> elopio, you see the conversation happening in #ubuntu-touch?
[19:33] <balloons> I think you are right.. perhaps we should have pushed harder sooner on this
[19:34] <balloons> I mean in general on the testability stuff.. we've instead hacked and worked around it
[19:42] <elopio> balloons: more or less. I'm trying to have lunch.
[19:42] <elopio> I think one of the big mistakes is to run the tests with unity running.
[19:42] <elopio> but I haven't been able to convince everybody about this
[19:42] <balloons> elopio, I think this is a session for dc
[19:42] <balloons> I only hope we can wait so long eh?
[19:43] <elopio> it's a long wait.
[19:43] <elopio> but I would prefer to wait than to work it around again just to find a new wall.
[19:46] <balloons> elopio, we should still start a conversation internally.. even if we 'solve' it before then, it will still be a topic