[03:31] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mhall119, I didnt do shades for cool grey to reinforce the guideline that coolgrey, at least according to the webpage, is for typography. Otherwise; very cool; thanks
[06:32] <dholbach> good morning
[07:47] <zbenjamin> ogra_: any idea where this could come from? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8307166/
[07:49] <zbenjamin> ogra_: ok nevermind, seems the app was already running
[08:07] <mardy> dpm: hi! Could you please generate a new click package for your account-plugin branch?
[08:15] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: does qtcreator support building qmake based projects in chroot ?
[08:16] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: no , sadly not
[08:16] <nerochiaro> ok, i'll build on device i guess
[08:16] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: or migrate to a cmake project ;)
[08:17] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: it's not my code
[08:17] <zbenjamin> ok
[08:17] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: have you seen the branch i suggest adding to your gallery branch ?
[08:17] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: yeah, sorry i totally forgot about it yesterday, We had some discussions going on
[08:19] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Swap Ideas Day! :-D
[08:19] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: what do you think then ?
[08:19] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: should i just merge it into my branch?
[08:20] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: yes, that is what i suggest
[08:20] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: then i'll review your branch
[08:20] <zbenjamin> let me see
[08:22] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: also i get this when i ask qtcreator to install devtools on the device: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8307355/
[08:22] <nerochiaro> on mako with rtm proposed
[08:24] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: i guess that functionality is broken, but we can make it still work
[08:24] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: there should be a file called /usr/share/qtcreator/ubuntu/scripts/device_developertools_packages
[08:25] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: it contains all the required packages for the developer mode , some of them are deprecated i guess
[08:25] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: just copy the packages and try to install it on the device
[08:26] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: after you have ruled out the obsolete packages , qtc will still show that your device is not in developermode because of the missing packages, but you can use it anyway
[08:26] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: ok. the obsolete package is dh_make
[08:27] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: ok just do not install it , then your device should be useable to build qmake
[08:27] <zbenjamin> projects
[08:27] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: yep, trying that. thanks
[08:29] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: ok i merged your branch
[08:29] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: what was your branch again ?
[08:29] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: https://code.launchpad.net/~zeller-benjamin/gallery-app/sdkcompat/+merge/233884
[08:38] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: ok i'm testing it. regarding building on device, it seems that dh_make is actually needed. it's trying to use it to build
[08:39] <karni> guys, what was the switch to click install to avoid signature verification? can't find it :(
[08:40] <zbenjamin> karni: --allow-untrusted
[08:40] <karni> zbenjamin: thanks!
[08:40] <zbenjamin> karni: the SDK is doing all that for you btw ;)
[08:40] <karni> zbenjamin: that doesn't apply to managers just wanting to install a click ;)
[08:41] <zbenjamin> karni: ok ;)
[08:42] <victorp> popey, ping
[08:42] <popey> yo
[08:42] <victorp> popey, do you know how to turn off the signature checks on click packages?
[08:42] <popey> i know what you're going to ask ☻
[08:42] <popey> what image you on?
[08:42] <victorp> is it that ? :)
[08:42] <popey> that has been fixed AIUI
[08:43]  * victorp checks
[08:43] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: can you get dh_make from some other package?
[08:43] <victorp> 27
[08:43] <victorp> popey, ^^ on rtm propose
[08:43] <popey> lemme test here, i just updated here too
[08:43] <victorp> it is the latest one
[08:43] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: weird dh-make is still available on my host
[08:44] <popey> victorp: worked fine here, I'm on 27
[08:44] <victorp> well, doesnt here..
[08:45] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: it is on my host too, but not on the phone
[08:45] <victorp> popey, updating using ota?
[08:45] <popey> yes
[08:46] <popey> victorp: can you send me the click you're using?
[08:46] <victorp> popey, sure
[08:47] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: is dh_make available on your device ?
[08:48] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: there seems to be a package called dh-make
[08:48] <popey> victorp: ok, fails for me too
[08:48] <victorp> popey, I got another 20 like that
[08:48] <victorp> :)
[08:49] <popey> victorp: pkcon --allow-untrusted install-local foo.click
[08:50] <brendand> popey, victorp - what's wrong? signed clicks don't install or unsigned clicks don't install?
[08:51] <popey> i think he's sorted now
[08:51] <brendand> popey, needs to work ootb though
[08:51] <popey> previously pkcon didn't have that parameter, click did
[08:51] <popey> it does ☻ if you specify the parameter
[08:52] <brendand> popey, oh so it's specifically to do with running pkcon from cli?
[08:52] <brendand> popey, not impacting the click scope
[08:53] <popey> yes
[08:53] <victorp> brendand, unsigned, I didnt know we needed to add that flag. no probs
[08:53] <victorp> I couldnt see an email on ubuntuphone about that
[08:53] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: back to testing your branch: it all works great. except that when i rename the package in the manifest.json.in and rebuild, it builds fine but when it tried to isntall on device it complains that the package is untrusted and refuse to install it
[08:54] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: update your qtcreator
[08:55] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: one question if you "adb shell" in are you still root?
[08:55] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: yes
[08:56] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: but i haven't reflashed since yesterday
[08:56] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: and which channel do you use again?
[08:56] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09-proposed
[08:57] <zbenjamin> ogra_: ^^^^ nerochiaro is on rtm proposed and his adb is executed as root. Didn't that land there as well?
[08:58] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: ogra_: i last flashed yesterday
[09:00] <victorp> popey, yes, that work. Thanks! back to doing some development
[09:00] <popey> \o/
[09:09] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: ok, all green on your branch now that i updated qtcreator
[09:09] <nerochiaro> zbenjamin: approved
[09:10] <zbenjamin> nerochiaro: awesome thx :)
[09:10] <ogra_> nerochiaro, zbenjamin not in rtm yet
[09:10] <ogra_> silo will be ready today for it though
[09:13] <zbenjamin> ogra_: ah ok
[09:20] <popey> mihir: PING! (I get the chance to ping you today) :D
[09:20] <popey> mihir: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1367654 i filed that because the tests seem to be failing in jenkins terribly today
[09:20] <mihir> popey: pong, I am honored :)
[09:21] <popey> heh
[09:21] <mihir> popey: is it failing on device ?
[09:22] <popey> yes
[09:23] <mihir> popey: i believe module name has been changed of address_book_service_testability
[09:24] <mihir> popey: i can see this in https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-calendar-app/fix-1359167/+merge/233387
[09:25] <mihir> popey: it has been replaced by address-book-service-testability
[09:25] <sturmflut-work> I noticed that the PickerPanel QML component does not support the mouse wheel out of the box on the Desktop. Is this intentional? Do I have to add a MouseArea somehow?
[09:25] <popey> hmm, so did that merge break it?
[09:25] <mihir> popey: this can be issue, as it passes Jenkis on MRs but not on device ?
[09:26] <mihir> popey: nope, i had issues but balloons asked me to install this package and it did work well
[09:27] <popey> address-book-service-testability isn't installed on device...
[09:27] <popey> so yes, I can see how that would fail.
[09:27] <mihir> popey: hmmm
[09:29] <mihir> popey: does that required any action on code side ?
[09:30]  * mihir looks for debian lists 
[09:30] <popey> well, i don't quite understand this, does this mean we need address-book-service-testability on the phone?
[09:30] <popey> we don't install other application specific autopilot related packages
[09:31] <mihir> popey: may be yes..i installed this on my machine and then it APs works, otherwise it failed because of same reason..not sure on device too.
[09:31] <popey> I'll poke balloons when he wakes, thanks ㋛
[09:31] <mihir> popey: np :)
[09:38] <mihir> nik90: ping
[09:45] <dpm> sturmflut-work, I think this might rather be a bug than intentional
[09:49] <sturmflut-work> dpm: I thought so
[09:56] <sturmflut-work> popey: Since you're always looking for things to talk about on the Ubuntu UK Podcast, I would suggest more Ubuntu Touch news. The Meizu MX4 was announced a week ago, it might be the right time.
[09:58] <popey> sturmflut-work: interesting ☻
[09:58] <sturmflut-work> popey: And maybe an interview with an Ubuntu Touch developer?
[09:59] <popey> smack we interviewed nik90 some time back, probably due to interview more actually... good call
[10:05] <Akiva-Thinkpad> morning
[10:23] <sturmflut-work> dpm: I think that in the end Ubuntu.Components.Pickers.Picker has no support for the mouse scroll wheel. Should i file a bug somewhere?
[10:25] <dpm> sturmflut-work, yes, on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit, please
[10:42] <nik90> mihir: pong
[10:54] <mihir> nik90: i am not sure what kind of issue I am facing for running CMAkelist
[10:56] <mihir> nik90: any idea , http://i.imgur.com/2F15gAb.png
[10:58] <jppiiroinen> howdy, about the ubuntu-sdk meta-package. I have a clean 14.04.1 installation and when I try to install the ubuntu-sdk, it wants to remove modemmanager. is that a bug or feature?
[11:05] <sturmflut-work> jppiiroinen: Hm, I'm on 14.10 and have both installed. It might be because of ofono
[11:06] <nik90> mihir: can you perhaps try on your phone by creating a 14.10 armhf kit perhaps
[11:07] <nik90> zbenjamin: could you help mihir..after the cmake change, he is unable to run calendar app on his desktop. He sees https://i.imgur.com/2F15gAb.png
[11:08] <nik90> mihir: why do you have unresolved dependencies in your update manager?
[11:09] <zbenjamin> nik90: mihir: try to remove the old builddirectory and user file
[11:11] <mihir> zbenjamin: i cleaned whole directory and pulled project from bzr
[11:11] <zbenjamin> mihir: hmm let me try again
[11:11] <nik90> zbenjamin: it works for me on 14.10
[11:12] <zbenjamin> nik90: ok
[11:12] <zbenjamin> mihir: your QtC is up 2 date?
[11:12] <zbenjamin> mihir: i added lots of fixes to support core apps last week or so
[11:13] <mihir> zbenjamin: Hmm may be, i haven't run any update manager since long , may be i can try updating my VM and will try again
[11:13] <zbenjamin> mihir: you use the SDK ppa on trusty right?
[11:14] <zbenjamin> mihir: always stay up 2 date on this , we have releases almost every week
[11:16] <mihir> zequence: i am using utopic
[11:18] <nik90> zbenjamin: he is running utopic on vm which is why it is not probably up to date. I tend to forgot to update mine as well sometimes
[11:18] <zbenjamin> ok
[12:05] <rpadovani> dpm, unfortunately, tomorrow I'm not at home, so I can't join the weekly hangout
[12:06] <dpm> rpadovani, thanks for the heads up. Would Friday work for you?
[12:07] <dpm> hi bzoltan, if I import Ubuntu Components 1.1 in an app, will the app run in trusty desktop?
[12:07] <rpadovani> dpm, will be better, yes
[12:09] <rpadovani> thanks dpm :-)
[12:09] <nik90> mihir_: did it woek?
[12:10] <nik90> dpm: no you can't launch in trusty desktop if you import 1.1
[12:12] <mihir_> nik90: i forgot my external today , so will do it once i reach home :)
[12:12] <nik90> ah ok
[12:13] <bzoltan> dpm: no, it will not
[12:13] <dpm> bzoltan, nik90 thanks. Is there any plan to backport 1.1 components? Note I'm not asking for a backport, just trying to find out what the plan is
[12:14] <nik90> dpm: as I understand, 1.1 requires qt 5.3 which is not being planned to be backported..so my guess is no. However I will let bzoltan confirm that.
[12:14] <bzoltan> dpm: No, and the backport become impossible since we moved on to Qt5.3 as the 1.1 components need features from the 5.3 what are not available in 5.2
[12:14] <dpm> ok, thanks guys
[12:14] <bzoltan> nik90:  you, you ... you are faaast
[12:15] <nik90> bzoltan: lol
[12:15] <nik90> bzoltan: I have irc sentence templates (j/k)
[12:15] <bzoltan> nik90:   We should improve that to an app template ... you type import ... hit tab-tab and the killer app is ready
[12:16] <nik90> :)
[12:27] <mivoligo> mzanetti: ping
[12:28] <mzanetti> mivoligo: hey
[12:29] <mivoligo> mzanetti: I've pushed first five level backgrounds to launchpad
[12:29]  * mzanetti looks
[12:30] <mzanetti> mivoligo: awesome, can you propose it for merging?
[12:30] <mivoligo> mzanetti: for now it's just svg files without level description files
[12:30] <mzanetti> in here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mpredotka/machines-vs-machines/level-backgrounds-sand
[12:30] <mzanetti> you can find a link "Propose for merging"
[12:30] <mivoligo> ok
[12:30] <mzanetti> mivoligo: then add a commit message in the next page and optionally a description
[12:30] <mzanetti> the rest should be fine as is
[12:31] <mivoligo> done
[12:32] <mzanetti> mivoligo: perfect
[12:32] <mzanetti> mivoligo: now, please always start with a new branch if you do some changes
[12:32] <mivoligo> mzanetti: ok
[12:32] <mzanetti> mivoligo: the reason for that is simple: if for some reason I would reject a branch, its getting a mess to remove that if you already have built on top of it
[12:33] <mzanetti> that's why its better to work with parallel instead of chained branches
[12:34] <mivoligo> mzanetti: but should I revert back to trunk, or just make some changes and push to new branch?
[12:34] <mzanetti> mivoligo: best thing is if you just do a fresh bzr branch lp:machines-vs-machines each time
[12:35] <mzanetti> mivoligo: then you'll have multiple dirs locally
[12:35] <mzanetti> once the are merged, you can delete them again from your hard dist
[12:35] <mzanetti> disk
[12:35] <mzanetti> mivoligo: if you don't want to download the whole thing each time, you can also do something like this:
[12:36] <mzanetti> once do: bzr branch lp:machines-vs-machines machines-vs-machines-clean-checkout
[12:36] <mzanetti> and then just do: bzr branch machines-vs-machines-clean-checkout my-new-feature-or-bugfix-branch
[12:37] <mzanetti> so you just branch things around locally without the need of downloading stuff
[12:37] <mzanetti> mivoligo: as always, feel free to ping me for help if you run into troubles
[12:38] <mivoligo> mzanetti: so switching between brunches does not work like in git at all?
[12:38] <mzanetti> mivoligo: no. bzr doesn't support multiple branches within one directory
[12:38] <mzanetti> mivoligo: there is a unsupported plugin which I've been told works fine
[12:38] <mzanetti> but by default you need a new directory for each branch
[12:39] <mzanetti> mivoligo: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/plugins/en/colo-plugin.html
[12:40] <mivoligo> I need to think the bzr way ;)
[12:42] <kalikiana> renatu: ping
[12:42] <renatu> kalikiana, hi
[12:43] <kalikiana> renatu: in the design hangout removing the border of text fields came up. contacts is doing that when you add a new one it seems
[12:43] <kalikiana> can you tell me how you do it?
[12:43] <kalikiana> do you use a custom entry?
[12:44] <renatu> let me check
[12:44] <kalikiana> maybe it makes sense to have an official API like borderStyle for example if that makes it easier
[12:45] <renatu> kalikiana, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/address-book-app/staging/view/head:/src/imports/ContactEdit/TextInputDetail.qml#L76
[12:49] <mivoligo> mzanetti: about the background sizes: the „playable” area is 10 units wide and 5 units high, on the left and right side of that area there's 1 unit wide margin. Over and below there's 2 units margin. Does it make sense to you?
[12:49] <kalikiana> renatu: you're customizing style: TextFieldStyle is that all you're doing? I think that could go in the docs, which don't really demonstrate styling tweaks
[12:49] <kalikiana> so no ugly hacks there
[12:49] <mzanetti> mivoligo: hmm... not really
[12:50] <mzanetti> mivoligo: so the thing is we can't define fixed sizes. device screen sizes might differ
[12:50] <renatu> kalikiana, I think Kaleo  help me with that
[12:50] <kalikiana> ^^ zsombi look at that TextFieldStyle customization
[12:50] <kalikiana> renatu: yeah digging that out must've been a bit of a pain
[12:50] <mzanetti> mivoligo: we can define an aspect ratio and stretch that to fill the available space
[12:52] <mivoligo> mzanetti: right, but you probably can make it so the playable area area adapts to the available space, and the rest is either on the sides or over and below that area
[12:53] <mzanetti> mivoligo: yep, that's what I meant with the last sentence
[12:53] <mzanetti> mivoligo: other than that, design wise you're the boss
[12:53] <zsombi> kalikiana: whazzup?
[12:53] <mzanetti> mivoligo: I just preserve the right to veto stuff I really dislike
[12:53] <mzanetti> :)
[12:53] <mivoligo> mzanetti: :)
[12:53] <kalikiana> zsombi: observe http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/address-book-app/staging/view/head:/src/imports/ContactEdit/TextInputDetail.qml#L76
[12:53] <kalikiana> to disable the border and change the color
[12:54] <zsombi> kalikiana: yeah, I see it...
[12:54] <kalikiana> I thnik that's a nice example of tweaking styling for a custom use case
[12:54] <zsombi> kalikiana: that's correct...
[12:55] <kalikiana> zsombi: should we just add that to our docs? as we all know we need those but never get around to finding examples…
[12:55] <zsombi> kalikiana: that was the way we suggested to get rid of the UbuntuShape without the need to create a custom theme
[12:55] <zsombi> kalikiana: well, yes, once we will have docs for theming :/
[12:55] <zsombi> kalikiana: but you know, that we are planning to tweak teh theming with subTheming and co
[12:55] <kalikiana> zsombi: as jounih was asking about how to do this properly
[12:56] <zsombi> kalikiana: meanwhile we can add this to the Theme engine documentation
[12:56] <kalikiana> zsombi: well "docs for themeing" is big. this is a specific use case for text fields
[12:56] <kalikiana> there's nothing genric
[12:56] <zsombi> kalikiana: yup
[12:56] <kalikiana> so imho we can just add it there
[12:56] <kalikiana> so instead of gawking at "style: Component" you can see an example ;-)
[12:57] <kalikiana> tho it depends on whether qdocs is happy to override the property per component
[12:57] <mivoligo> mzanetti: what I mean is you have to somehow calculate and specify the playable area, right?
[12:57] <kalikiana> zsombi: here I mean http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.10/Ubuntu.Components.TextField/#style-prop
[12:58] <zsombi> kalikiana: well, in this way we can specify these in every component :)
[12:58] <mzanetti> mivoligo: yeah... so far I just stretch it
[12:58] <zsombi> kalikiana: 'cause custom style is valid for all
[12:58] <sturmflut-work> mzanetti, mivoligo: machines-vs-machines is great. And it even has particle effects!
[12:58] <mzanetti> hehe
[12:58] <mivoligo> :)
[12:59] <mzanetti> sturmflut-work: yeah... some spare time project I hack on every once in a while
[12:59] <zsombi> kalikiana: BUT, remember, the Style API is not yet complete, so first we must make sure we publish all APIs, then we can base on these examples in teh doc
[12:59] <mzanetti> sturmflut-work: the levels aren't good yet. But it reaches feature completeness and we can start designing proper levels soon
[12:59] <kalikiana> zsombi: it is already used in apps, practically speaking it's api we already support
[13:00] <mzanetti> mivoligo: so yeah... I guess we should  just define a width/height ratio
[13:00] <kalikiana> zsombi: ideally I agree we would have an example for every component
[13:00] <zsombi> kalikiana: well, we kinda do, it's just we must make it "official" :)
[13:00] <kalikiana> zsombi: what does that really mean for you?
[13:01] <zsombi> kalikiana: it means that we have to include the API in teh Ubuntu.Components.Styles
[13:01] <zsombi> kalikiana: and document it
[13:01] <zsombi> kalikiana: whatever is not documented is not meant to be stable API
[13:02] <zsombi> kalikiana: that's why we must come up with a complete set of style APIs, documented
[13:02] <kalikiana> zsombi: so goes the fairy tale. until the wolf eats you :-P
[13:02] <zsombi> kalikiana: yet we have ~3 style APIs
[13:02] <zsombi> kalikiana: well, we promised this for 14.10.... so we must do it
[13:03] <zsombi> kalikiana: actually that was sthing I wanted to start, but me alone won't be able to finish it in time :(
[13:03] <zsombi> kalikiana: so, buddy, are U up for an API freeze? ;)
[13:04] <kalikiana> zsombi: what I see is app devs (at least one, renatu) pulling their legs out, to find out how to tweak theming… part of me things the "big docs" won't ever be done in one go
[13:04] <kalikiana> zsombi: technically we are in freeze :-]
[13:05]  * kalikiana likely fairy tales
[13:05] <zsombi> kalikiana: no, true, but we can have an effort to do the style APIs and then we can have docs in each component
[13:06] <nik90> kalikiana: actually calendar app also uses the styles tweak at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-calendar-dev/ubuntu-calendar-app/trunk/view/head:/NewEventEntryField.qml#L29
[13:06] <zsombi> kalikiana: all we need to do is to get the API from the styles we have and move into a base component. The API to be published should be more or less what the target component uses + some the style really depends on.
[13:07] <zsombi> kalikiana: so even if we are in API freeze, we don't really bring new API, we just "freeze" it :)
[13:08] <mivoligo> mzanetti: ok, so you know now what I'm trying to say with these sizes?
[13:08] <mzanetti> mivoligo: yes... I'll have a look when I import your background images
[13:08] <mzanetti> mivoligo: hopefully tonight. right now I'm busy with unity
[13:09] <mivoligo> mzanetti: remember this screen-ratio image? https://spideroak.com/browse/share/michal-here/1n3k34izs8asdfjazjkdas89e03/mix/
[13:09] <sturmflut-work> Is there a way to list all apps published for Ubuntu Touch? Maybe a way to access the API the store itself uses?
[13:09] <mzanetti> mivoligo: ah perfect!
[13:09] <mivoligo> mzanetti: I made the background in the way the green and red is seamless
[13:09] <mzanetti> sturmflut-work: I'm afraid there isn't atm... popey, please correct me if I'm wrong
[13:10] <mzanetti> mivoligo: yep. saw that... will make it a bit more tricky in the code, but no problem. I'll figure something. Most important thing is to make level design easy
[13:11] <popey> sturmflut-work: mzanetti https://search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/search?q=architecture:armhf&size=1000&page=1
[13:11] <kalikiana> zsombi: hmmmm I don't quite follow. how do you "freeze" style API?
[13:11] <popey> :D
[13:11] <mivoligo> mzanetti: ok
[13:11] <kalikiana> zsombi: isn't it all rather specific to the component?
[13:11] <zsombi> kalikiana: in teh way that you include it in the Style module
[13:11] <mzanetti> popey: awesome!
[13:11] <popey> sturmflut-work: https://gist.github.com/rschroll/8952015 - but it's broken as JamesTait broke the API :D - hey JamesTait maybe you could fix that as it's quite handy ☻
[13:12] <zsombi> kalikiana: of course it is, but you can "freeze" it, or make it official, stable for each component, aint it?
[13:12] <kalikiana> zsombi: so you mean importing "ambiance" would be seen as bad manners?
[13:12] <mzanetti> JamesTait: Happy fix-the-api-day!
[13:12] <mzanetti> :P
[13:12] <kalikiana> zsombi: and it comes from ubuntu.components?
[13:12] <zsombi> kalikiana: never said that... what I'm saying that till the style is not documented for each component, thoise may change freely
[13:12] <popey> well, the API is fixed, I mean, fix anything that uses it ㋛
[13:13] <JamesTait> popey, ah, I wonder if that's the one client that has issued a broken request since we turned off plain JSON. :-P
[13:13] <kalikiana> zsombi: well… kinda. we still have apps that will blow up if they change
[13:13] <popey> probably, i used it a few times and then.. sad face ☹
[13:13] <sturmflut-work> popey: Thanks. Wow. That's an impressively long list.
[13:13] <JamesTait> popey, I saw it in the logs this morning, and wondered who/what it was.
[13:13] <zsombi> kalikiana: aham... and that's the same way if they use private properties...
[13:14] <zsombi> kalikiana: we NEVER said that teh style API is stable
[13:14] <zsombi> kalikiana: so we should do it now
[13:14] <popey> JamesTait: robert is an app developer, he'd probably appreciate the tips / fixes (he made Beru, the ebook reader)
[13:14] <zsombi> kalikiana: these people use the text input style on their own risk, and they know it
[13:14] <mivoligo> mzanetti: about the background design: it took me a lot of time to do a detailed levels, so I decided to do a rather simple „vector look” with gradients here and there but without any textures. I hope it's good enough for the start.
[13:15] <JamesTait> popey, oh yes, I know (of) Robert.  I e-mailed him personally to let him know the API was changing. :)
[13:15] <zsombi> kalikiana: and we must publish all style APIs so they can use them from now on officially
[13:15] <kalikiana> zsombi: true
[13:15] <mzanetti> mivoligo: it'll do for a start... we can always add more later...
[13:15] <JamesTait> But I have applist.py cloned locally already, so I can offer a simple patch.
[13:15] <zsombi> kalikiana: so, that's what I was talking about :)
[13:15] <mzanetti> mivoligo: most important thing is we have the paths defined so we can start with building proper levels
[13:16] <mivoligo> mzanetti: I guess I should create and push level.json files
[13:17] <mzanetti> mivoligo: if you have the time, that would be great
[13:17] <mzanetti> mivoligo: you can change the existing ones
[13:17] <mivoligo> mzanetti: I'll try to do that in the evening
[13:17] <mzanetti> to match your images
[13:18] <mivoligo> mzanetti: but I'd like to leave enemies waves to you :)
[13:18] <nerochiaro> kenvandine: what do we do in cases when the user wants to share a photo and a video (i.e. part of a random selection he made in gallery) ?
[13:19] <mzanetti> mivoligo: sure
[13:19] <kenvandine> nerochiaro, ugh... not sure
[13:19] <mzanetti> mivoligo: just set the fieldsOnPath and forbiddenFields
[13:19] <mivoligo> mzanetti: great, enjoy your day!
[13:19] <mzanetti> you too!
[13:19] <mzanetti> o/
[13:19] <mivoligo> o/
[13:19]  * popey hugs JamesTait 
[13:20] <nerochiaro> kenvandine: i think that for now i'll disable the share option if the selection is not homogeneous
[13:20] <kenvandine> yeah.. safest
[13:35] <nik90> sergiusens: hey were you able to create a unpriviledged lxc container without any issue?
[13:35] <sergiusens> nik90: ah, I'm really bad at the terminology; you mean, un as user with all the graphical bling?
[13:35]  * sergiusens does console only
[13:36] <nik90> sergiusens: well by default you can call lxc-create only as root
[13:36] <nik90> sergiusens: https://www.stgraber.org/2014/01/17/lxc-1-0-unprivileged-containers/
[13:36] <nik90> sergiusens: so by assigning uids and gids you can call lxc-create as just your user itself
[13:36]  * nik90 doesn't understand uids and gids..and hence just running commands
[13:37] <sergiusens> nik90: I'll take a look
[13:37] <sergiusens> nik90: uid and gid is the one matching your user
[13:38] <sergiusens> nik90: run 'id' from a terminal
[13:38] <nik90> ah it shows 1000 uid and 1000 gid
[13:38] <nik90> for my user
[13:40] <sergiusens> nik90: after a quick glance, you do't need that info though, just replace stgrabe with what is appropriate for you :-)
[13:42] <nik90> sergiusens: I did all that..but when I do lxc-start -n p1, it gives me error that lxc-container could not access /home/krnekhelesh/local. So I gave it access for now using chmod +x
[13:42] <nik90> sergiusens: so now I can start the lxc-container as krnekhelesh rather than root
[13:42] <nik90> sergiusens: so I think I solved it for now
[13:42] <sergiusens> nik90: there is a comment at the very end on how to allow that
[13:42] <sergiusens> .local and not local, right?
[13:43]  * sergiusens assumes typo
[13:43] <nik90> yes .local
[13:44] <sergiusens> nik90: I'll check later today
[13:44] <nik90> sergiusens: its ok..it works for now. I am going to now try the gui part in the next blog post :)
[13:52] <ahayzen> balloons, ping
[13:52] <balloons> ahayzen, pong
[13:53] <ahayzen> balloons, i'm trying to write a test which requires the song to be a least 5seconds in...what is the best way of waiting until the player.position > 5000 ?
[13:53] <balloons> wait_for not work?
[13:54] <ahayzen> balloons, so if i had player.position.wait_for(5000) what happens if gst jumps from 4998 to 5002 or something?
[13:54] <ahayzen> balloons, i could try it but not sure how reliable that would be?
[13:55] <balloons> wait_for(GreaterThan(5000))
[13:55] <ahayzen> balloons, that sounds better, i'll try that thanks :)
[13:55] <balloons> :-)
[13:56] <ahayzen> balloons, also is this an acceptable way to skip tests when not running as click? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/add-url-dispatcher-tests/view/head:/tests/autopilot/music_app/tests/test_music.py#L24
[13:56] <ahayzen> balloons, as those url-dispatcher tests only work in a click environment
[13:57] <mihir_> balloons: ping
[13:57] <balloons> ahayzen, hmmm.. is it only a click env, or is it only on phablet devices?
[13:57] <ahayzen> balloons, an environment that has url-dispatcher that works :P
[13:57] <mihir_> balloons: this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1367654 was because of the pacakge name change is that correct?
[13:59] <balloons> ahayzen, I think I would be more inclined to only exclude the desktop.. But the click idea I suppose is interesting
[14:00] <ahayzen> balloons, i think the reason it doesn't work is that because the click isn't installed the protocol doesn't get registered or something?
[14:00] <balloons> mihir_, we added the depends to the manifest and to the debian control file. However, CI doesn't use autopkgtest to run things, and as such, there's no dependency handling. I added the dependency manually to a config they use
[14:01] <ahayzen> balloons, how do i exclude desktop?
[14:01] <balloons> mihir_, the switch was we used to include that code inline in the tests, but then it got packaged
[14:01] <mihir_> balloons: okay :) make sense
[14:01] <balloons> so we dropped it from the calendar code and use the upstream version
[14:01] <mihir_> popey: ^^
[14:01] <balloons> ahayzen, autopilot.model
[14:03] <popey> mihir_: yay!
[14:05] <ahayzen> balloons, oh god the app just crashed again in jenkins :/ http://91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-utopic-python3/279/console
[14:05] <ahayzen> balloons, for this mp https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/ap-helper-refactor-004/+merge/233291 ... do you mind rerunning?
[14:12] <balloons> ahayzen, is that the latest run?
[14:12] <balloons> and yea.. though it keeps happening?
[14:12] <renatu> kalikiana, what do you think about this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/messaging-app/+bug/1367459
[14:13] <ahayzen> balloons, yeah i think so... well it did pass yesterday...but i agree it does seem to keep happening, does it look like us or ap or jenkins?
[14:27] <ahayzen> balloons, success \o/ thanks for the rerun :)
[14:27] <balloons> :-)
[14:53] <sturmflut-work> mzanetti, popey: I built a cheap QML browser for the JSON API to the store that popey mentioned, see https://github.com/Sturmflut/storebrowser
[14:54] <popey> oooh!
[14:54]  * popey hugs sturmflut-work 
[14:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> whats a qml browser?
[14:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> web browser?
[14:55] <popey> qml "store browser"
[14:55] <popey> not "qml browser"
[14:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ah
[14:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> very cool
[14:55] <sturmflut-work> popey: I should probably add some kind of filter, the list is already too long to be properly viewed on a Desktop.
[14:55] <popey> sturmflut-work: you going to maintain this? I mean, I have a bunch of issues I could file for you ㋛
[14:56] <mzanetti> haha :D
[14:57] <mzanetti> popey is like a fly strip
[14:57] <popey> in a good way?
[14:57] <mzanetti> sure
[14:58] <popey> ☻
[14:58] <sturmflut-work> popey: I should probably concentrate a little more on my day job again, I spent a lot of time doing app development instead of "real" work.
[15:00] <popey> hehe
[15:00] <popey> real work is overrated ㋛
[15:00]  * popey looks around for sabdfl
[15:00] <popey> i never said that
[15:01] <ahayzen> lol
[15:02] <mhall119> nik90: BTW, my recurring alarm didn't recur
[15:03] <nik90> mhall119: not surprised since you told me that the alarm you created did not appear in the indicator-datetime
[15:03] <sturmflut-work> popey: Well, I do work for the government, and they give me a lot of shiny boxes to play with, so better not upset anyone. They might take the shiny boxes away :(
[15:03] <nik90> mhall119: if i-dt doesn't see it, then it wont ring since i-dt is the service which does the actual ringing
[15:03] <popey> indeed
[15:04] <nik90> mhall119: I am also pretty certain that your old alarm files/clock files are causing this issue since I don't see others having the issue with the only difference being they clean wiped their phone at some point
[15:24] <kalikiana> renatu: about rotation… we still don't have control over it afair. either you do or don't. unless unity8 implements that. I'd say ask a unity dev maybe greyback_
[15:25] <kalikiana> I second tho that is is a fundamental design violation
[15:25] <kalikiana> upside down is no-no
[15:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad> popey, nik90, sturmflut-work , kalikiana - http://imgur.com/a/FIFRy#0
[15:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> a la this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1357260
[15:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> any thoughts?
[15:48] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad: I like the 2nd one...first one is too strong imo.
[15:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nik90, do you think ubuntu dots are possible to use in a design?
[15:49] <nik90> I have not seen them in any app yet
[15:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nik90, you like the second one from the album I just posted? with the faint colours?
[15:50] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad: if any yes
[15:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I actually kind of liked the grey one
[15:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> The ones with the solid colours I am thinking could be made to look nicer if I added a white divider
[15:53] <kalikiana> Akiva-Thinkpad: I want to like the use of orange but it's too heavy
[15:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> kalikiana, yah I agree
[15:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> off the top of your head, do you know which component adds a white line divider?
[15:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> oh, it looks like it is "Divider{}"
[15:56] <nik90> actually ThinDivider{}
[16:28] <popey> Akiva-Thinkpad: I prefer grey with a subtle highlight, the last two...
[16:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> popey, hold on, I actually have three more that I think are good, utilizing the divider.
[16:37] <Akiva-Thinkpad> popey, nik90 kalikiana  4 more at the end. I think these ones are pretty swell http://imgur.com/a/FIFRy#7
[16:37] <nik90> too strong
[16:38] <popey> https://imgur.com/a/FIFRy#8  is my fave so far
[16:38] <nik90> I would stick with popey's suggestion.
[16:38] <popey> makes the appointments stand out
[16:38] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mmm yah
[16:38] <popey> However I would point out one details...
[16:38] <popey> ← Not a designer.
[16:39] <nik90> 8th? The one with the gray background?
[16:39] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I'm gonna shoot it up on reddit. The one thing I like about the solid grey, is that it does save battery :P
[16:39] <nik90> I like 6th
[16:39] <popey> the one with the dark 7pm
[16:39] <popey> and no orange/purple
[16:40] <popey> s/purple/aubergine/
[16:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yah too strong I think
[16:40] <popey> https://i.imgur.com/5xVxwAr.png
[16:40] <nik90> how about keep the background white and instead color the event?
[16:40]  * popey shrugs
[16:40] <nik90> in combination with 6th
[16:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> popey, I like what you said about the solid greys making events stand out.
[16:41] <popey> dont like the bar under the time
[16:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad> if we end up adding colours to the events, it will really make the events stand out.
[16:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad> time should be in the middle?
[16:42] <popey> no, I mean there's a bar in the screenshot I posted
[16:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ah the Divider{}
[16:43] <popey> yes
[16:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> good to know
[16:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> do you like the time being moved from x-large to large, and or the fact that it has been moved from the center, to the line which it sits on?
[16:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nik90?
[16:45] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: ping
[16:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, ah pong
[16:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> welcome back
[16:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, http://imgur.com/a/FIFRy#7
[16:45] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: hahahha finally back home from work :D
[16:45]  * mihir looks at screenshots :D
[16:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> From work to work~
[16:46] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad: well frankly if it were to be my choice, I would move them to the side and decrease their font to normal like google calendar. Having them in the middle only results in the time being hidden by the events.
[16:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nik90, because you like the white; would you like a version with a white background with the divider?
[16:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nik90, yah I was thinking of that too.
[16:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> might play around with that
[16:48]  * popey goes to make food
[16:48] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad: Here my reasoning as to why I don't prefer strong colors like Orange etc. If one were to use strong colors in the background it reduces the effectiveness of action buttons. That's one of the things I admire in the new clock design. Due to the neutral white background, the action buttons like delete, add, toggle switches become prominent and
[16:48] <nik90> let the user know what to do.
[16:48] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad: which is why I rather let the events take on the color background rather than the entire app itself
[16:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nik90, yah the new clock design looks great
[16:48]  * Akiva-Thinkpad doesnt disagree
[16:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nik90, i'll make a few more mockups with your suggestions
[16:49] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad: Atm the calendar is still a bit cluttered and strong in my opinion. Reducing the font-sizes and moving things to the side would improve it. But then again I am not a designers.
[16:49] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: did you make working hours configurable ?
[16:49] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: nik90 i liked this one , http://imgur.com/a/FIFRy#5
[16:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> errrr, did he dc?
[16:50]  * Akiva-Thinkpad doesnt have login notifcations
[16:50] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad: he dced
[16:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> :P
[16:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> okay brb, gonna make another
[16:51] <nik90> I don't mind #5 as long colors are made a bit more softer
[16:51]  * nik90 goes back to writing tests
[16:59] <ahayzen> elopio, thanks for the review :)
[16:59] <elopio> thanks to you ahayzen. You are doing a good job there.
[16:59] <ahayzen> elopio, thanks
[17:00] <ahayzen> elopio, the encoding of check_call was a weird one
[17:00] <elopio> ahayzen: does it fail without the enconding?
[17:01] <ahayzen> elopio, it was only failing on jenkins
[17:01] <ahayzen> elopio, http://91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-utopic-python3/271/testReport/junit/music_app.tests.test_music/TestMainWindow/test_url_dispatcher_album_play_with_mouse_/
[17:01] <ahayzen> elopio, but we are skipping the tests for jenkins now...so...?
[17:01] <elopio> umm, you have a unicode character on the test.
[17:02] <ahayzen> elopio, yep deliberately ;)
[17:02] <elopio> ahayzen: ideally, your test files should be really simple. We want lower level tests to check enconding issues like that.
[17:02] <elopio> you are testing two things here, and a test should be simple and focused.
[17:03] <elopio> but if the enconding makes it work, we can leave for later splitting the test in two: one for launching, and one for handling weird characters.
[17:03] <ahayzen> elopio, i suppose... so should i have one test with 'normal' characters and one with unicode?
[17:04] <elopio> ahayzen: you should have one test using the file as simple as possible. There you check that the UI starts playing, that the playlist size is the correct.
[17:04] <elopio> then we need a test to make sure that url-dispatcher can handle unicode characters. That test should live in the url-dispatcher project.
[17:05] <elopio> and then we need a test to make sure that the music app displays weird characters correctly.
[17:05] <elopio> ahayzen: the rule I use comes from the name of the test. I try to name a test as: test_action_must_result_in_x
[17:06] <ahayzen> elopio, ok
[17:06] <elopio> if I can't make a simple name that explains the test, generally it's because the test is too big.
[17:06] <elopio> test_launch_album_from_url_dispatcher_must_play_it
[17:06] <elopio> that's good.
[17:06] <ahayzen> ok i'll try and sort it out :)
[17:07] <elopio> test_launch_album_with_unicode_enconding_from_url_dispatcher_must_play_it_and_display_name_correctly, that's bad.
[17:07] <ahayzen> elopio, would you want to test that unicode can be launched via url-dispatcher though?
[17:08] <elopio> ahayzen: I think that won't be necessary. I would ask ted if they have a test for that. And if they don't, just report a bug for him.
[17:08] <ahayzen> elopio, ok
[17:09] <ahayzen> hmm this test would be much easier to write when 004 refactor lands...
[17:17] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nik90, couldnt get the label to be on the side without some extensive coding the label's visible: property, because if I move it to the left, other labels from the other days appear on this one.
[17:17] <Akiva-Thinkpad> That being said
[17:17] <Akiva-Thinkpad> 4 more
[17:17] <Akiva-Thinkpad> http://imgur.com/a/FIFRy#11
[17:19] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: nik90 sorry DC problem
[17:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, heh
[17:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, http://imgur.com/a/FIFRy#11 added a few more that you may like
[17:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> they are brighter
[17:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, the other thing I could do, is the ubuntu grey gradient
[17:20] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: my only concern is , i would prefer to change label color rather than background
[17:20] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: because for me it make more sense, and it looks more elegant..
[17:21] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, popey made a good point on the one with the dark solid greys, in that it causes the events to stick out.
[17:21] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad: Did you just create an event for "Wash popey garden with bleach"? !
[17:21] <Akiva-Thinkpad> did I say wash?
[17:21] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I meant to say water
[17:21] <nik90> either way how's that good :P
[17:21] <Akiva-Thinkpad> good is a subjective term
[17:22]  * nik90 scrambles to warn popey
[17:22] <Akiva-Thinkpad> its too late; hes busy making food
[17:22] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: lol, on event names
[17:22]  * Akiva-Thinkpad *mwa ha ha ha*
[17:22] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: okay , if he is fine, what are your inputs, nik90
[17:22] <mihir> i may have lost the converstation
[17:23] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, i'll post it on reddit; see what the community thinks.
[17:23] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: excellent :)
[17:23] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: btw, did you made that work hours configurable ?
[17:23] <mihir> nik90: i am upgrading my VM now..
[17:23] <nik90> Akiva-Thinkpad mihir: I like https://i.imgur.com/rs93ZTW.png but with the font-size improvements you just did
[17:23] <mihir> nik90: bingo , same choice :)
[17:23] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mihir, not yet; once I figure out the design i'll be doing that.
[17:24] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: no issues..
[17:24] <JamesTait> popey, https://gist.github.com/jamestait/539788077e86c89bff7c#file-applist-py
[17:24] <mihir> nik90: do you have that branch , or i should propose , and we can improve that together..
[17:25] <nik90> mihir: I think you should propose as I can't find a time to get to it..too many stuff to do from all sides
[17:25] <nik90> mihir: btw use "bzr mv" to move the files
[17:25] <nik90> that will produce a much clean code diff in launchpad
[17:26] <mihir> nik90: yeah , i can understand..but i really appriciate your help :) I am lil afraid to make big changes, but with help of you i can think of those changes :)
[17:27] <nik90> mihir: ok so first things first.. does all AP tests pass atm?
[17:27] <mihir> nik90: i am inbetweent, so let me do that first and then and then i'll pass
[17:28] <mihir> push*
[17:28] <nik90> mihir: second, once we start moving stuff, the existing MPs will get code conflicts since the files they are trying to change have been moved
[17:28] <mihir> nik90: waiting to run calendar app on my QTc heheh
[17:28] <nik90> mihir: are you updating your vm?
[17:28] <mihir> nik90: yup it is in progress
[17:28] <nik90> mihir: we did this change to make it so much easier to run from QtC
[17:29] <nik90> mihir: can you imagine being able to run on desktop, device and emulator with no changes through QtC
[17:29] <nik90> that's what we finally have now
[17:29] <mihir> nik90: i hope , my vm udpates should fix
[17:29] <nik90> so I really hope your issue gets resolved asap
[17:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> bleck; gradient does not work
[17:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> okay; posting it to reddit
[17:32] <ahayzen> Is click-buddy installing for anyone on #235 ?
[17:34] <nik90> ahayzen: signature issue?
[17:35] <ahayzen> nik90, yah
[17:35] <nik90> ahayzen: try --allow-untrusted ?
[17:35] <ahayzen> ah
[17:35]  * ahayzen modifies script
[17:35] <nik90> ahayzen: might want to check --help first to see if that option is available
[17:35] <ahayzen> nik90, hmm doesn't appear in help...has it been backported to trusty?
[17:36] <nik90> no idea
[17:36] <nik90> I haven't updated yet
[17:36]  * nik90 checks which image he is on
[17:36] <ahayzen> i was wondering why all of my autopilot tests were failing on device...and then realised it wasn't installing the click lol
[17:36] <nik90> lol
[17:37]  * nik90 is#234..updates
[17:37] <ahayzen> don't do it! u can't install anything lol
[17:38] <balloons> lol
[17:38] <balloons> victor's bug?
[17:38] <nik90> ahayzen: I never use click-buddy
[17:38] <nik90> ahayzen: qtcreator should work around this for sure
[17:38] <nik90> ahayzen: if not I know who to bug :P
[17:38] <balloons> ahayzen, you can avoid using --provision
[17:38] <ahayzen> balloons, Fatal error: /tmp/com.ubuntu.music_1.3.10000_all.click failed to install.
[17:38] <ahayzen> Cannot install /tmp/com.ubuntu.music_1.3.10000_all.click: Signature verification error: debsig: Origin Signature check failed. This deb might not be signed.
[17:38] <nik90> ahayzen: also cant let you suffer alone :P
[17:38] <balloons> if you install it manually use --allow-untrusted
[17:38] <balloons> ahayzen, ^^ I JUST did this on the new image, it works fine
[17:39] <balloons> pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted
[17:39] <ahayzen> balloons, /usr/bin/click-buddy: unrecognized option '--allow-untrusted' ... oh pkcon
[17:39] <nik90> balloons: I think ahayzen tried click-buddy --dir . --provision
[17:39] <ahayzen> yep
[17:39]  * ahayzen hugs click-buddy tightly
[17:40] <ahayzen> how do i use pkcon ?
[17:40] <balloons> ahayzen, indeed.. and as nik90 said, feel free to use the sdk to push to devices. If it fails, we can cry wolf :-)
[17:40] <balloons> ahayzen, push the click to the device, shell in and run it
[17:40] <nik90> mihir: did you know that the events in the indicator-datetime use the same color used by the calendar , cool eh?
[17:40] <balloons> pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted my_super_cool_music_click.clik
[17:40] <ahayzen> hmm last time i checked qtc couldn't install on device due to a permissions things? it couldn't even enable dev tools
[17:40] <nik90> ahayzen: last time? when?
[17:41] <mihir> nik90: yup :D
[17:41] <mihir> nik90: we intedend that heheh
[17:41] <ahayzen> nik90, ..now... Build->Ubuntu->Install application on device is greyed
[17:41] <nik90> ahayzen: let me try, 1 min..phone still updating
[17:42] <ahayzen> nik90, if i try and tick 'has device developer tools' i get.. E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Unable to lock directory /var/lib/apt/lists/
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
[17:42] <ahayzen> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
[17:42] <nik90> erm we got it :P
[17:42] <ahayzen> bah sorry
[17:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> bbl
[17:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> night all
[17:44] <ahayzen> balloons, pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted is also a unknown option guess that hasn't been backported to trusty?
[17:44] <balloons> ahayzen, lol.. on the device man!
[17:44] <nik90> ahayzen: why do you need that in trusty?
[17:44] <ahayzen> oh..
[17:44] <nik90> what balloons said ^^
[17:45] <nik90> oh ahayzen :P
[17:45] <mihir> Akiva-Thinkpad: night :)
[17:45] <ahayzen> ... i like $ click-buddy --dir . --provision :D it just works...or should i say *worked*
[17:46] <nik90> lol
[17:47] <ahayzen> yey i think i've manage to install a click package \o/
[17:47] <ahayzen> thanks balloons nik90
[17:50] <nik90> yw
[17:52] <nik90> elopio: hey
[17:53] <nik90> elopio: your lab rat brings you https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/ubuntu-clock-app/checkbox-manual-tests/+merge/234164 :-)
[17:54] <balloons> mihir, still about?
[17:55] <mihir> balloons: ?
[17:56] <elopio> nik90: lab rat sounds terrible. Lets say bleeding edge rat.
[17:56] <balloons> mihir, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1291225
[17:56] <nik90> elopio: +
[17:56] <balloons> mihir, I discovered this bug came back again :-(
[17:57] <mihir> balloons: :(
[17:58] <elopio> nik90: could you add a README about how to run them?
[17:58] <mihir> balloons: but now we are getting current locale in AP right ?
[17:58] <elopio> nik90: and is the namespace of your new version of the clock 2014.com.ubuntu.clock ?
[17:58] <elopio> I find it weird to use numbers on the namespace.
[17:58] <nik90> elopio: no the namespace is com.ubuntu.clock
[17:58] <nik90> elopio: however I was told to you it by zyga
[17:59] <nik90> elopio: http://plainbox.readthedocs.org/en/latest/author/provider-namespaces.html#theoretical-considerations
[17:59] <balloons> mihir, I unfortunately didn't spend any time playing with why it was broken, so I'm not sure. But yes we attempt to set to 'C' locale
[17:59] <mihir> balloons: if we see mergs, we are using locale instead of UTC
[17:59] <elopio> nik90: I see. Well, lets follow what they propose.
[18:00] <mihir> balloons: it fails on device or desktop ?
[18:00] <balloons> mihir, everywhere.. I found it on the desktop
[18:00] <mihir> ahhh , i never noticed :|
[18:00] <mihir> balloons: it should be UTC or system locale ?
[18:01] <balloons> mihir, I can't remember if calendar or autopilot asserted the weird time
[18:01] <nik90> elopio: so we were discussing this on checkbox earlier, but here is the summary of the plan.
[18:01] <mihir> balloons: i'll try to reprdocue this , and try to debug this
[18:01] <nik90> elopio: In my next MP, I will add debian packaging into the manual tests folder which will depend on the correct version of checkbox.
[18:02] <mihir> balloons: as far as i see attached Mergs to the bug, it resolve issues on both way QML and Ap
[18:02] <nik90> elopio: so the qa team like yourself, should be able to run the launcher which should open the tests in a GUI (if not console) in a simple fashion where you can run the tests and then enter if they passed or failed.
[18:02] <nik90> elopio: that should get outputted to a json file or whichever format you prefer
[18:02] <mihir> balloons: there is a confusion , your MR says it has to be utcnow and kunal's MR says it has to be locale
[18:02] <balloons> mihir, right I agree.. So I can't say much other than try setting your device to a local timezone (not utc) and running the tests. They should fail
[18:03] <balloons> mihir, I agree.. the mp's don't see to agree with each other
[18:03] <nik90> elopio: I will still need to talk to dholbach about how one goes about installing the clock-manual-tests debian package since it won't be built by jenkins
[18:03] <elopio> nik90: interesting.
[18:03] <mihir> balloons: okay
[18:04] <elopio> nik90: I don't care about having it properly packaged if it's easy to do from the branch.
[18:04] <nik90> elopio: oh ok
[18:04] <elopio> but if you find a way, +1.
[18:05] <elopio> the archive managers will probably don't want a debian package in the archive for a binary that will only be on the store, though.
[18:05] <elopio> *probably won't want
[18:05] <elopio> but discussing with daniel might bring good ideas of what to do.
[18:05] <nik90> elopio: true but the clock app itself is not in the archive..we test (distribute) it on the desktop using the core-apps ppa
[18:06] <elopio> nik90: ah, so we could put the package only on the PPA.
[18:06] <balloons> I should talk to zyga about the format for plainbox tests.. I don't like it
[18:06] <elopio> nik90: as I said, that's not a concern for me, so feel free to do as you like. It's your PPA also :)
[18:06] <nik90> balloons: what why...it is so simple though
[18:06] <nik90> elopio: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8311480/
[18:06] <sergiusens> balloons: it's like the only think I like about them, very standarized format ;-)
[18:07] <nik90> elopio: well I am doing all this for the qa team to run manual test easily
[18:07] <nik90> elopio: so I rather you make the decision :)
[18:07] <elopio> balloons: we discussed with zyga about also supporting the format the qa tracker uses. But that's also not my concern, any format works for me, I just want a file with results.
[18:08] <elopio> nik90: if you leave it to me, then do not invest any time in packaging the manual tests. Just put a README for now with the instructions to run them.
[18:08] <nik90> elopio: ack
[18:08] <elopio> nik90: remember this is the first trial. If it works good for you and for me, we still need to convince the rest of the team.
[18:09] <nik90> true
[18:09] <mihir> nik90: after upgrading VM it works :D
[18:09]  * nik90 sighs a relief
[18:10] <balloons> sergiusens, nik90 elopio my issue is it doesn't follow the "do this, expect this" format we've adopted: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TestCase
[18:10] <nik90> elopio: cool in that case, I will try to make sure the manual test comes up nicely with a launcher and gui to make it super simple.
[18:10] <elopio> balloons: oh, I agree there.
[18:11] <elopio> but I guess it would be easy to do to add more verifications between the steps.
[18:11] <nik90> elopio: I can check with zyga if that's possible
[18:11] <elopio> that's also the format moztrap uses and I like it a lot.
[18:11] <nik90> elopio: But shouldn't that just mean that the test should be split up more?
[18:11] <elopio> nik90: not necessary in this case.
[18:12] <nik90> elopio: for instance If I am testing to check if alarm vibrations works, I need to first have a check to see if alarm even ring in the first place.
[18:12] <elopio> manual testing is too different from automated.
[18:12] <nik90> ok
[18:12] <elopio> what you want in the end is the same: test one single goal, or experience path, or funcionality or how you like to call it.
[18:12] <nik90> elopio: actually you should check with zyga since you will be able to explain this better
[18:13] <elopio> but it's really useful to remind the tester what to expect at each step.
[18:13] <brendand> balloons, that's just a question of semantics
[18:13] <elopio> like: open the app from the launcher -> the app must be opened showing the main clock page.
[18:13] <balloons> so, checkbox back in the day used to use a format much closer to what I would like to see, but they migrated way to what you see now
[18:13] <elopio> then if the app is opened on a different page, the tester will know something is wrong and he won't be likely to continue with the test.
[18:14] <balloons> nik90, I am curious though, did you talk with zyga about his plans for the phone and plainbox?
[18:14] <balloons> I never heard back last month
[18:14] <nik90> balloons: zyga is already building checkbox-touch which is supposed to run on the phone
[18:14] <nik90> I ran the gui and it looks nice
[18:15] <nik90> balloons: he linked me to a google document which showed the future plans for ubuntu touch
[18:15] <nik90> but I am unable to find it atm, will need to ask him for the link
[18:15] <elopio> balloons: and anyway, the results file is so valuable for me, I wouldn't mind to work around that limitation. like writing:
[18:15] <elopio> step 1: do this (this should happen)
[18:15] <elopio> step 2: do that (that should happen)
[18:15] <elopio> step last: finish the test
[18:15] <elopio> verification: the test finished successfully.
[18:16] <brendand> balloons, i don't think the test case format in checkbox has changed significantly
[18:16] <balloons> brendand, it changed slightly when they moved from gtk to qt
[18:16] <balloons> but I might be wrong :-)
[18:16] <brendand> balloons, yes - i know :)
[18:16] <balloons> I went through it
[18:16] <brendand> balloons, but before that it was worse
[18:17] <elopio> balloons: and about running on the phone, that's not really useful for us at the moment.
[18:17] <elopio> we want this only for manual tests. We don't want a combination of automated and manual tests, so we don't really need to execute commands on the phone.
[18:17] <brendand> balloons, there was no format
[18:17] <balloons> lol.. well, I would really like to see it solidified up
[18:17] <mihir> nik90:
[18:17] <balloons> the bigger thing for me is automated reporting and collation of results
[18:17] <brendand> elopio, we may want semi-automated tests though
[18:17] <mihir> it is giving errror line below imports and it says use QML_IMPORT_PATH
[18:17] <elopio> brendand: why? when?
[18:17] <balloons> if we don't have that, and buy-in, I'm not interested
[18:18] <mihir> nik90: is that okay ? but the project runs fine
[18:18] <brendand> elopio, it can be really powerful to part-automate a test
[18:18] <brendand> elopio, don't tell me you can't think of a case where that would be useful :)
[18:18] <nik90> mihir: ah yes that's fine. Its one of the error in cmake project not being to find ubuntu components. But this should be fixed in a update very soon
[18:18] <balloons> I can agree with brendand on that.. basically it let's you 'automate' things that are hard to get good asserts for
[18:18] <balloons> colors, sounds, etc
[18:19] <nik90> mihir: the update will also bring code autocompletion as well
[18:19] <brendand> balloons, video playback etc
[18:19] <elopio> nik90: why do we need summary and purpose? they seem almost the same to me.
[18:19] <brendand> elopio, summary is a short description for the ui
[18:19] <nik90> elopio: summary can't exceed 80 char
[18:19] <elopio> brendand: got it.
[18:19] <elopio> nik90: got it.
[18:19] <elopio> but then purpose is needed only if 80 chars are not enough?
[18:20] <nik90> I suppose yes..I wanted to maintain uniformity
[18:20] <nik90> but I could check with zyga on that
[18:20] <nik90> http://plainbox.readthedocs.org/en/latest/author/jobs.html
[18:20] <brendand> nik90, where's the branch for this?
[18:21] <nik90> brendand: https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/ubuntu-clock-app/checkbox-manual-tests/+merge/234164
[18:21] <mihir> nik90: okay
[18:22] <brendand> elopio, purpose is not really part of the job format as such
[18:23] <brendand> elopio, here's an example:
[18:23] <brendand> _summary: Resolution change tests
[18:23] <brendand> PURPOSE:
[18:23] <brendand>       This test will verify that the GUI is usable after manually changing resolution on the $product graphics card.
[18:23] <nik90> brendand: so summary is more like a test title?
[18:24] <brendand> elopio, summary appears in the list of test cases, where purpose only appears in the test case itself
[18:24] <nik90> since "Resolution change tests" doesnt explain much
[18:24] <brendand> elopio, moreover, all test must have a summary, but only manual tests need a PURPOSE
[18:25] <brendand> nik90, it explains more than 'graphics/`echo ${index}`_resolution-change_`echo "${product}" | sed 's/ /_/g;s/[^_a-zA-Z0-9-]//g'`'
[18:25] <brendand> :)
[18:25] <nik90> lol
[18:27] <brendand> nik90, before checkbox could only display the ID, which had to be unique and couldn't have spaces
[18:27] <brendand> nik90, not very user friendly
[18:28] <nik90> ah ok
[18:28] <nik90> sergiusens: hey quick question, how do you access files in the host inside a lxc-container?
[18:29] <nik90> sergiusens: I have now a unprivileged utopic amd64 lxc container. I am installing the ubuntu-sdk and other necessary stuff and run them from the commandline
[18:29] <nik90> so no gui yet
[18:32] <brendand> nik90, do you need the tests to run in a specific order?
[18:32] <nik90> brendand: the trigger-alarm test needs to be run first. So I made the other tests depend on it
[18:33] <nik90> brendand: if trigger-alarm fails, all the others will also fail
[18:33] <nik90> but that's about it
[18:33] <brendand> nik90, ok - if you want you can use the alarm/* pattern in your whitelist
[18:33] <brendand> nik90, you then won't need to remember to add new tests to the whitelist
[18:34] <nik90> ah yes..thnx
[18:34] <brendand> nik90, although it's not wrong to be explicit
[18:35] <brendand> nik90, in trigger-alarm you have too much space for the VERIFICATION step
[18:35] <brendand> nik90, and for me estimated_duration being at the bottom looks weird
[18:35] <nik90> yeah I am still struggling with the spacing a bit
[18:35] <brendand> _description should always be last
[18:35] <nik90> I did the tabbing in gedit, and when I ran .manifest validate -N it gave me errors
[18:35] <nik90> so going back to nano messed some things up
[18:36] <balloons> nik90, geany > gedit
[18:36] <nik90> true
[18:37] <brendand> nik90, gedit needs reconfiguring a bit
[18:37] <balloons> from there you can move into more esoteric editors.. it's the gateway
[18:38] <brendand> balloons, you say 'esoteric' i say 'better'
[18:38] <brendand> :)
[19:03] <sergiusens> nik90: I bind mount
[19:04] <sergiusens> nik90: there's an automated way to do it; but I do it manually
[19:04] <nik90> sergiusens: ah something like lxc.mount.entry = /dev/dri dev/dri none bind,optional,create=dir
[19:07] <killer> Hey,It's been a long time since I submitted my apps to store but still "pending review"(2 months).
[19:10] <sergiusens> nik90: something like that, you can do /home /home too
[19:10] <sergiusens> or /home/user /home/user
[19:10] <nik90> yup
[19:11] <sergiusens> just make sure user has the same uid and gid or things will break :-)
[19:11] <nik90> :-)
[19:22] <nik90> balloons: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/12gpgFGtNBoPet8215bUdeJ-QXLL_peQOsGCzipd4gh0/edit#
[19:23] <balloons> killer, apps for the desktop?
[19:46] <killer> balloons: yes
[19:49] <beuno> killer, we are solving our lack of man power soon
[19:58] <balloons> nik90, I assume you may have seen the conversation in #ubuntu-touch. Thanks for the document link. I'll peruse it and leave some thoughts on your mp
[19:59] <nik90> balloons: not yet, just came from dinner, but will take a look
[19:59] <nik90> balloons: sure go ahead
[20:22] <nik90> sergiusens: hey I got qtcreator working in my utopic lxc-container!
[20:23] <nik90> sergiusens: I can now open the clock app on trusty host with utopic lxc with no overhead
[20:23] <sergiusens> nik90: nice!
[20:23] <Letozaf_> balloons, hi
[20:23] <balloons> Letozaf_, hello
[20:23] <balloons> nik90, ohh that's awesome
[20:24] <Letozaf_> balloons, can you help me solve this : "QQuickListView.count failed: True != dbus.Int32(20, variant_level=1)"
[20:24] <nik90> balloons, sergiusens: There are some small kinks that I need to work out like moving my ssh keys, common development folder sharing, etc but woohoo
[20:26] <balloons> nik90, you should also be able to run tests 'locally' from the container
[20:27] <nik90> balloons: yup that's my big plan
[20:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, I need to check the count property value but it's a dbus.Int32
[20:27] <balloons> Letozaf_, is that your branch?
[20:27] <nik90> balloons: no more heavy virtual vm
[20:27] <balloons> that is the idea behind lxc
[20:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes
[20:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, but I have to push some changes I made
[20:27] <balloons> Letozaf_, sure push them and tell me which test fails. That's easiest ;-)
[20:28] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok just a minute
[20:30] <Letozaf_> balloons, https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/ubuntu-clock-app/new-add_world_city_test/+merge/231131 the test that fails is ubuntu_clock_app.tests.test_clock.TestClock.test_add_city_by_searching_must_add_world_city
[20:40] <Letozaf_> balloons, could this error be related to the count property bug we were taking about with nik90 ?
[20:48]  * balloons looks
[20:54]  * balloons forgets he needs to build first :-)
[20:54] <Letozaf_> balloons, :)
[20:56] <balloons> weird, it's still launching the installed version
[20:57] <balloons> ohh right.. I know
[20:57] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh.. when you merged trunk, where did you merge from?
[20:58] <balloons> ahh I see lp:ubuntu-clock-app..
[20:58] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes
[20:59] <balloons> it's weird clock has been migrated to change launching
[21:00] <Letozaf_> balloons, I launch it so: autopilot3 launch -i Qt qmlscene ../../app/ubuntu-clock-app.qml  -I ../../builddir/backend/
[21:00] <Letozaf_> balloons, when launching with autopilot
[21:00] <nik90> balloons: changed how?
[21:00] <nik90> balloons: its the same as before as Letozaf_ launches it
[21:00] <balloons> nik90, I seem to remember we moved things around.. ohh, it was the old tests
[21:01] <balloons> we can fix these up the same way, but that's another issue
[21:01] <nik90> yes
[21:02] <nik90> balloons: btw just finished reading your long conversation with zyga. Would you like me to convert the test description format to what the manual tests currently use like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/indicator-datetime
[21:03] <balloons> nik90, yes, ala: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/TestCase
[21:03] <balloons> nik90, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseFormat shows the same, with some things we desired for the qatracker
[21:03] <balloons> we might want to drop the verbiage at the bottom
[21:03] <balloons> and we can decide if we want to bold and italics the same way
[21:04] <nik90> ok
[21:04] <balloons> nik90, see how it's rendered? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1301/info
[21:04] <balloons> 1. bold text as action
[21:04] <balloons> italics as verification
[21:04] <nik90> ah yes
[21:05] <nik90> well checkbox doesn't support bold and italics yet
[21:05] <balloons> right, and it's not something that is in the test.. it's rendered by css that way :-)
[21:05] <balloons> so plain text is fine
[21:05] <nik90> ah :)
[21:05] <balloons>  1. Perform X action
[21:05] <balloons> 	
[21:05] <balloons> Expect Y result
[21:05] <balloons> 2. Perform A action
[21:05] <balloons> 	
[21:05] <balloons> Expect B result
[21:05] <balloons> 	
[21:05] <balloons> Expect C result
[21:05] <balloons> meh, I don't think that pasted well.. anyways
[21:06] <popey> nik90: you totally need to blog about your lxc fun!
[21:06] <nik90> I get the idea
[21:06] <nik90> popey: :D
[21:06] <balloons> Letozaf_, ok, I got the same issue you did, hehe
[21:06] <balloons> so I'll look at the test
[21:07] <balloons> sorry for being slow
[21:07] <Letozaf_> balloons, no worries :) thanks
[21:08] <balloons> Letozaf_, ok, so you grab the citylist and that seems to go fine, but you aren't seeing the count increase.
[21:09] <balloons> so we should check things out.. my first thought is to print_tree cityList and to print_tree it's parent
[21:09] <Letozaf_> balloons, the count property has a dbus.int32 value
[21:09] <Letozaf_> balloons, so when I check >20 it gives an error message
[21:11] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh
[21:11] <balloons> lol
[21:11] <balloons> It's a syntax issue
[21:11] <balloons> I misunderstoof
[21:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, no problem I wasn't sure about the problem :)
[21:11] <balloons> Letozaf_, you want cityList.count.wait_for(GreaterThan(0))
[21:12] <balloons> you'll need to import GreaterThan
[21:12] <Letozaf_> balloons, ah ok ... so easy :P
[21:12] <balloons> from testtools.matchers import GreaterThan
[21:12] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes thought the problem was something weired :P
[21:12] <balloons> Letozaf_, yep totally. So by default wait_for uses Equals, but you can use any matcher you like
[21:13] <balloons> make sense?
[21:13] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes thanks
[21:15] <Letozaf_> balloons, yahoo!! it worked
[21:15] <Letozaf_> balloons, going to bed now it's late, thank you
[21:16] <Letozaf_> buona notte a tutti :)
[21:21] <balloons> nik90, so did you try running the tests on the device itself? is that possible atm?
[21:21] <nik90> balloons: AP tests or qml?
[21:21] <balloons> nik90, sorry I'm still looking at your manual stuff
[21:22] <balloons> also, I'm not sure you need to use that ppa on utopic or not. Running your instructions for me results in nothing.. just some prints
[21:22] <nik90> balloons: oh, I haven't tried it on the device. tbh I haven't given it any thought since it requires more work
[21:22] <balloons> I tried with the archive version and the ppa version of plainbox
[21:22] <nik90> balloons: zyga pointed out that I missed a step
[21:23] <nik90> balloons: once you are in 2014... folder, type "./manage.py install"
[21:24] <balloons> nik90, I needed sudo to do that.. but no change
[21:25] <nik90> balloons: I suggested adding the dev ppa because I was told it was updated almost every few days with all the new stuff. and since it was the qa team who were going to review the MP, I figured that shouldn't matter
[21:25] <nik90> balloons: what happens once you are inside the whitelist folder and run "plainbox run -w alarm.whitelist" ?
[21:25] <balloons> nik90, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8313002/
[21:27] <nik90> balloons: hmm..okay can you run "../manage.py develop" and then run  "plainbox run -w alarm.whitelist"
[21:27] <balloons> that made some magic
[21:28] <balloons> ncurses ;-)
[21:28] <balloons> nik90, kk
[21:31] <nik90> balloons: yup this is the console ui, but there is also a proper gui for running tests. but for that I need to figure out the launcher which should happen in my next mp
[21:38] <balloons> nik90, I left questions on the mp; don't assume they are all for you :-) zygmut should answer some
[21:39] <nik90> ok ;)
[21:40] <nik90> balloons: regarding your file output question, http://plainbox.readthedocs.org/en/latest/usage.html# should come in handy
[21:41] <balloons> dinner time.. ttyl nik90, pleasant evening to you1
[21:41] <nik90> balloons: cya
[22:20] <Brito> hi
[22:29] <rpadovani> Someone should say to Oliver Ries that is bad making lines with more than 80 chars in mails...
[23:00] <popey> rpadovani: get a wider screen ☻
[23:00] <popey> ooh, midnight, time for bed!