[01:16] Just a quick "survey", is xubuntu still ok for upower 0.99 this cycle? ubuntu's stuff finally supports it, so darkxst and i have a giant FFe to make [01:19] bluesabre, ochosi ^ [02:33] Noskcaj: Yeah, if everything can support it with minor changes or just a rebuild, we can probably proceed with it. [02:33] ochosi: do you agree? [02:37] I believe Debian had only partial support in one of the packages, at least saw a bug about it. [06:32] bluesabre, Pretty much all is sorted in debian already [06:33] it should be just rebuilds [06:34] I really should write stuff down or remember it - but as I didn't and don't - how do I apply this patch to test it xfce 11134 [06:34] xfce bug 11134 in General "Desktop Settings Infobar gives move option when unavailable" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11134 [06:35] hi Noskcaj [06:35] hey elfy [06:35] download the source, copy patch in, build it, install, test [06:36] 5 minutes work [06:36] right [06:36] you'd make an awesome teacher [06:36] ha [06:36] bzr branch lp:ubuntu/xfdesktop4 [06:37] copy the patch to xfdesktop4/debian/patches/thingy.patch [06:37] so why can't you just patch the installed version [06:37] Add thingy.patch to xfdesktop4/debian/patches/series [06:37] elfy, because compilers [06:38] nvm then Noskcaj - I'm not going to doing all that [06:38] then run "quilt push" "bzr add" "bzr-buildpackage" [06:38] then install your new binary [06:38] easy [06:39] I can make it if you need, then you just add ppa:noskcaj/staging [06:42] Erm, why all that? Just apt-get source it and drop the patch in. [06:43] Unit193, In case he was on !utopic [06:44] and it's not that much of a difference in workload, really [06:45] Sure, no quilt or bzr* commands. Anywho, it's moot either way. [06:45] very moot [06:46] * Unit193 moos at elfy. [06:46] why can't I patch < foo.patch [06:46] *moots [06:46] elfy: You could do that too, yep. [06:47] sudo apt-get build-dep xfdesktop4 && apt-get source xfdesktop4 to get all the build deps and source. [06:50] elfy: Either of us could pop it into a package, or if you wait until tomorrow I can do the entire test. [06:50] \o/ lightdm .9 ->"Don't check the logind CanGraphical seat property ..." [06:51] \o/ [06:51] Unit193: it's morning so I'm a bit meh - and that was much too much writing for me to find the requisite amount of care :p [06:52] hopefully todays image will in fact boot :) [06:52] properly [07:13] bluesabre, Noskcaj: well frankly it doesn't make me very happy. upower0.99 is fairly different (even if there are more features partly) and is largely untested within xfce, so it's quite risky – especially because I have no idea whether we can get any resulting bugs fixed in time for the release [07:13] ochosi, The downside is it means ubuntu-gnome is stuck with a release from the start of last year [07:14] and some stuff from earlier [07:14] but if you are worried about it, say so and the FFe won't go through [07:14] well yeah, i am slightly worried, i haven't given any of the xfce components in question any testing with upower0.99 [07:15] and i do expect some oddities [07:15] those that tested that combination were mostly on other distros [07:15] have you tested any of it? [07:15] if we get enough testing before the FFe goes through, i'd probably be fine with it though [07:16] (but i'm not so optimistic about that going down) [07:16] bbabl [07:17] ochosi, i'm setting up a complete testing PPA, so (elfy) would we be able to get some testing on that? [07:19] ha [07:19] you can set it up - I can ask people to test it - but don't count on any getting done [07:21] ok [07:32] Noskcaj: hah - I knew it - tried all that ^^ bzr: ERROR: The build failed. [07:33] bbl [07:34] pastebin the log? [08:37] ochosi: sure would be cool if some super minor issue (typo, spacing, etc) was found and fixed to make the git revision +1 so this builds https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/xfpm-daily [08:37] >.> [08:42] bluesabre: i can look into that [08:43] basically need to scan the buildlogs? [08:43] it will build on next git change [08:43] oh [08:43] now i get what you mean [08:43] so if something changes in xfpm, we're good to go ;) [08:43] can't you just manually schedule a rebuild? [08:43] (unless you break xfpm) [08:43] the version numbers fail [08:43] we're not planning to, no :) [08:43] oh, hmpf [08:43] i see [08:43] will see whether i find something minor [08:44] translation maybe? [08:44] today in the afternoon i might have an hour or two for FOSS [08:44] that'd be ideal [08:44] i've been planning to send a call for translations out today anyway [08:44] I usually cheat and add/remove/edit TODO [08:44] but i can ask some italians to complete the translation directly [08:44] there you go [08:44] they're a friendly group (the g+ folks) [08:44] indeed [08:48] ok, asked and already got a confirmation that it'll be done today :) [08:48] awesome [08:48] so is xfpm done then? [08:49] pretty much [08:50] note: there'll always be bugs :) [08:50] but we wanna do a release at some point [08:50] and now that we also support lxpanel 0.7 i think it's time [08:58] sweet [08:58] probably a good time for then for a translations call [08:59] though the xfce projects are really good about getting translated without poking people [08:59] its that because of something with transifex that notifies the translators? [09:02] i guess [09:02] but xfce has had a strong community of translators for a long time [09:02] I see [09:02] so even before the move to transifex.com translations were flowing in pretty constantly [09:02] (at least from what i remember) [09:02] meeting-time, bbiab [09:09] bluesabre: btw, one note: i've tested the desktop icon sizes a bit more over the last two weeks (since we first had that discussion), and i'd like us to go for 48px/64px (icon/tooltip) [09:09] mostly 48px isn't so much bigger, it crops the strings less and it's consistent with thunar [09:09] back to 48px, hooray [09:09] :) [09:10] well, a bit of back and forth is okay to test things out imo [09:10] it also means that the tooltip isn't so huge [09:10] i mean in comparison to the icon [09:10] ok, poke the others and get their thoughts [09:10] you mean everyone in !team? :) [09:10] I'm also in favor [09:11] still wondering, why we've changed it from 48 to 32 in the first place [09:11] we're flexible [09:11] :) [09:12] ochosi: reminder: icon-theme [09:12] knome: reminder: wallpaper [09:17] As usual, I'll take care of these uploads this evening :) [10:02] brainwash, bluesabre: the switch to 32px was made because there was a MR by Unit193 :) [10:02] and i felt we could try it out [10:05] bluesabre: translations have already been added in transifex for xfpm, so i guess they'll land in the next hours [10:06] still strange, we've just changed them to 48px in trusty, even upstream :D [10:06] sneaky MR [11:58] woohoo images boot in vm now [11:58] pleia2: ^^ [11:59] yay1 [11:59] more than 1 :p [11:59] yay1+ [12:00] not looking for anymore booting issues till 15.04 [12:01] * bluesabre notes this [12:06] :) [12:06] good good [12:06] bluesabre: i'll do another update of the icon-theme this afternoon [12:06] so tonight you'll have it ready [12:06] ochosi: great [12:06] don't think there'll be anything to do for themes [12:06] elfy: have an opinion on desktop icon size 32 -> 48? [12:07] hi ochosi [12:07] bluesabre: also, the commit in xfpm has already landed from transifex, so that build should work now [12:07] hey elfy [12:07] bluesabre: well - my opinion is that *anything* bigger than 22px is wrong :) [12:07] ochosi: cool, I'll poke the builders [12:07] so not the best person to ask :) [12:07] elfy: 22px for desktop icons it is [12:07] :P [12:08] works for me :) [12:08] hehe [12:08] [fileman icon] [12:08] Fi... [12:08] elfy doesn't seem to have a hidpi screen :> [12:08] bluesabre, yeah yeah... [12:09] ochosi: lol [12:12] bluesabre: what's your take on upower0.99 btw? [12:12] well, xfce4.12 is supposed to freeze right about now [12:13] freeze? [12:13] so, finding upower issues now would be very beneficial for upstream [12:13] "freeze"ish [12:13] right [12:13] the others were talking about it a few weeks back [12:13] yeah, but the question is what do we do if things break [12:13] we're quite late in the cycle [12:13] so - would it not be better to be finding them at the beginning of the next cycle so there's months rather than weeks to deal with it? [12:14] elfy: yeah, that's the point i'm implicitely making (also said that to Noskcaj) [12:14] right [12:14] I'm blunter :) [12:14] but I think there are not very many packages affected by it, but I'm not going to make the call on my own [12:15] i mean there was all cycle for the transition to be done and while i understand that it might be nice for ubuntu-gnome to get 3.12, i'm not 100% willing to take the risk [12:15] we can almost guarantee that package testing will be less than desirable [12:15] bluesabre: yeah, i was wanting to ask you for the same reason ;) [12:15] should be perhaps a release team decision [12:15] yup, here we are :) [12:15] oh - I'd not noticed :D [12:15] :) [12:15] so yeah, *theoretically* everything should work in xfce [12:16] the affected components are (at least) xfpm, xfce4-settings and xfce4-session [12:16] I'm willing to work towards any fixes, wife is working weekends through the next release [12:16] I'm certainly not at all enamoured with the idea of chucking something that could break things - given that we are getting very little in the way of testing [12:16] the session-support is still very fresh btw [12:16] but it's in git master [12:16] we could start with tossing it into -staging or using Noskcaj's ppa [12:17] get a larger amount of -team to just install it and see what breakages we may find [12:17] yup, that'd be fine with me [12:17] * bluesabre also thinks that all of -team should be on utopic now if they are not already [12:17] I've not got an issue with doing that - if we can get people to test it, but then that's necessarily going to drop it even further into the future [12:17] one thing though, those would have to be hardware installs [12:17] VM doesn't help with upower at all [12:17] (i mean it helps a bit, but not that much) [12:18] agreed [12:18] s/install/install on their normal machines [12:18] elfy: yeah, that means putting it on hold [12:18] I've got to go again now - bbl [12:18] sure, ttyl elfy [12:18] ochosi: yea [12:19] heading out too... I'll follow up on backlog when I get back. [12:19] anyway - if we decide todayish - I'm -1 to that this late unless we get cast iron guarantees on fixes being able to land [12:19] haha, well i won't continue the discussion alone :D [12:19] lol [12:19] and anyway, it's about lunchtime, so i don't mind if we continue this later [12:20] I can be about later tonight - later elfy time I mean - rather than wandering off early evening [12:20] Noskcaj: who all would be affected? is upower only used by gtk desktops? [12:20] elfy: well fixes being able to land is one thing, we can't get guarantees on fixes being written though i guess [12:20] i think there's a big bugreport that lists all components [12:21] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/+bug/1330037 [12:21] Launchpad bug 1330037 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "upower 0.99 transition" [Undecided,In progress] [12:21] also, has it landed in debian yet? I know that they were working towards that [12:21] yeah, it should land in the next debian [12:22] (afaik) [12:22] nice [12:22] so all desktops are affected, incl unity, kde, gnome-variants and xfce [12:22] that affects almost everybody [12:22] heck, even razorqt [12:22] this does not seem like a good idea... [12:22] and not one that we can make on our own [12:22] since it affects xfpm, it also affects lxde [12:22] (and that we better not be left out of either) [12:23] yeah, we can only chip in our 2cents [12:23] imo we should sit down tonight and write up a common release-team statement, explaining why we're -1 on this [12:24] (if we are, but as we're all rather on the sceptical side...) [12:24] it only affects a few xfce components, so its not quite as dangerous for us [12:25] but it looks like the gnome packages aren't even completely patched yet [12:25] ehem... [12:25] * ochosi clears throught [12:25] session and powerman and settings are quite central components [12:25] and other affected desktops have not touched [12:25] so while they aren't many... [12:25] right [12:25] they are a big deal [12:26] tbh i haven't worked on upower0.99 personally [12:26] eric has handled all of that [12:26] and he has done so in all the aforementioned components [12:26] so maybe we should interview him on this issue [12:26] this affects too many desktop this late in the cycle, and the fixes aren't around for several desktops, I doubt the request would be granted [12:26] yeah [12:26] yeah, i think ubuntu-gnome is mostly pushing this forward (otherwise no 3.12) [12:27] anyhoo, dragging behind here, gotta run [12:27] yup, me too [12:27] hf and ttyl [12:27] elfy: yay re: booting in vm [12:36] but yeah, confirm with eric what testing may have been done, and let's do a spot check at least on hw, if we're remotely interested [15:17] !team | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2243667 [15:19] sutpid bot [16:43] slickymasterWork, lol [16:45] knome: :) [16:45] * knome just finished the evening work session [16:47] knome do you think you'll have some time this weekend so we can start on the docs networking section for the new NetworkManager? [16:48] probably.. or you could file a bug about it and jack might fix it before we get to it [16:48] lol, that's an idea [16:50] did you get to see the forum thread, knome? [16:51] yep, looked at it [16:51] it's nice [16:51] yep [17:24] ochosi: can lls 1.4 be used in trusty? [17:25] someone is asking for a fully translated lls http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/light-locker-einstellungen-auf-deutsch/ [17:38] knome, what exactly isn't up to date in the docs, wrt new NetworkManager? [17:40] somebody said it's going to change [17:40] can't remember who, but i can try to dig it up tomorrow [17:40] aren't we going to ship the same nm-applet? [17:40] knome: i think that was Unit193 [17:40] iirc, there was going to be a new version or sth [17:40] who knows! [17:40] :) [17:41] and who, thne, added that item to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-docs? [17:41] s/thne/then [17:42] brainwash: theoretically it should work even with xfpm <1.3, so also in trusty (but i haven' tested) [17:42] I just have been through today's daily, and as far as I can tell, nothing there is different from what is present in the networking section of the documentation [17:42] I mean the nm-applet [17:43] Unit193, care to enlighten me on this, pretty please ^^^ [17:50] ochosi, the reason there hasn't been no progress on http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfpm-docs:start is because I'm in a fight with myself about installing xfce4-power-manager 1.3.2-0ubuntu2 in my main computer :P [17:51] I don't feel like wrecking it, but it's the only choice I have to do it on real hardware [17:53] slickymasterWork: if you need screenshots for the tabs, i can do them for you [17:54] i guess you only need 1.3.2 for that [17:54] anyway, i don't think you'd have any regressions with it (and you can easily go back to 1.2.0 with apt) [17:55] it's not like 1.4 will be a rewrite or something, we mostly fixed bugs and introduced a few features [17:55] so: "installing 1.3.2 != wrecking it" :) [17:55] ochosi: so cur5rent plan with upower is to check with Eric and then decide? [17:55] elfy: i talked to him a few minutes ago [17:56] he said that the list in the bugreport isn't complete (weather-plugin was missing) [17:56] that would help ochosi. you can put them under the xfpm-docs namesapce [17:56] slickymasterWork: ok, i'll try to get to it tomorrow [17:56] slickymasterWork: in case i forget, please remind me [17:56] ochosi: yea - saw that one get added to the bug minutes ago [17:57] elfy: so opensuse seems to be using upower0.99 and logind and things work (that's a good sign), but frankly... [17:57] well, if you guarantee me that ochosi, then I'll go ahead and install 1.3.2 [17:57] elfy: i'm still -1 on the whole transition. it's just very late and we still have to be "lucky" not to get any regressions from it [17:57] so, nevermind those screenshots [17:57] slickymasterWork: is 90% good enough for you? :) [17:57] ochosi: nothing's changed my mind [17:58] I'll take your 90% ochosi ;) [17:58] elfy: yeah, i guess we're on the same page. let's wait and see what bluesabre has to say about it [17:59] ochosi: okey doke [18:01] it's 14.10, so just get the new stuff in :) [18:03] there's a patch for xfce 11134 - I've no idea what to do with it - if someone else can look that'd be good [18:03] xfce bug 11134 in General "Desktop Settings Infobar gives move option when unavailable" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11134 [18:03] gotta run guys -> [18:04] elfy: https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-git [18:04] oh wait, he didn't commit it yet [18:35] can anyone confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman/+bug/1304599 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/libxfce4ui/+bug/1303404 [18:35] Launchpad bug 1304599 in blueman (Ubuntu) "bluetooth indicator is always white regardless if bluetooth is on or off" [Undecided,New] [18:35] Launchpad bug 1303404 in libxfce4ui "Hotkeys with modifier overriding each other" [Medium,Confirmed] [18:38] and that lightlocker bug.. it is still present.. sometimes [18:38] i don't know how to reproduce it yet, but i'm getting a locked screen sometimes... again [18:44] is it possible to replace the xfce stuff like libxfce4ui with my own built version easily? [18:44] like a symlink away? [19:11] brainwash: As to LP Bug 1367381, this really does not amuse me: http://askubuntu.com/questions/522274/thunar-does-not-show-preview-icons-for-media-files [19:12] Launchpad bug 1367381 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar fails to show previews for media (jpg, png, pdf, etc) file icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1367381 [19:12] brainwash: I've reported the bugger to get that mess closed over on AskUbuntu [20:25] skellat: which mess? [20:38] brainwash: The user tried to file the same bugreport as an open question on AskUbuntu [20:38] And then posted there that he rebooted and the problem went away === meetingology` is now known as meetingology [20:43] yeah, some people just cross post stuff on the interwebs [20:46] slickymaster: That was "if NM .10 lands, nm-tool disappears and there's another tool for that now" [20:51] Unit193, and most probably we don't have a way to know for sure when will NM .10 land, right? [20:52] so I'm inclined to remove that item from the -docs blueprint [20:53] and from trello [20:56] Considering it hasn't yet, yeah I think it won't land this cycle. [20:58] thanks for the heads up Unit193 [20:58] Eh, maybe it'll be useful next cycle. [20:58] I'll postponed the item in both, LP and Trello [21:02] Validating sv fails. [21:06] swedish? [21:06] slovakian? [21:07] Swedish [21:09] aha [21:10] i will refrain from telling stupid jokes about swedish people [21:10] will you fix it? :P [21:50] ppa:noskcaj/upower now has all the xfce stuff, if someone wants to test it [21:51] (Except weather-plugin, since we don't have upower enabled for it) [21:51] doesn't only the power manager use upower to do stuff? [21:52] weather-plugin?! [21:52] settings and systemload too [21:52] yeah, that's a thing [21:54] oh, this machine here does not even have upower installed :) [22:00] what's the big deal anyway? [22:02] pretty much upower changed a bunch of API stuff end of last year (Dropped suspend stuff, plus other things), gnome now needs it, and debian has upower 0.99.1 currently [22:02] And ubuntu-gnome would rather not have stuff from early 2013 [22:03] What's the point anywho? They can't have the latest Gnome without a newer systemd, IIRC. [22:04] because a heap of core stuff is stuck on <<3.10 [22:04] debian already has it, so there shouldn't be any problem to get it working in ubuntu, or? [22:05] or is it just too late for changes like this? [22:05] brainwash, ubuntu-only packages, plus unity forcing us to have a huge diff in gnome [22:05] we had to wait for some ubuntu-touch guys to patch things there, so it's really late [22:07] Ah cool, only bugs related are Debian 755234 and Debian 752438, neither of which we'd have to worry about. [22:07] Debian bug 755234 in xfce4-power-manager "incomplete support for upower0.99" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/755234 [22:07] Debian bug 752438 in lightdm "lightdm: upower-1.0 transition" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/752438 [22:11] makes me wonder, why can't they just delay the release of 14.10 a bit, to get xorg 1.16, upower and so on up and running [22:12] a release with only 9 months of support [22:31] bluesabre: i don't suppose you're around? [23:11] Since i forgot to mention it, upower is used by all desktops, lubuntu is fine with the transition, kubuntu is uneffected (Everything is run-time compatable with all versions), mate is fine (rebuild only), gnome needs work, but will work, and touch has been patched, but needs a refresh.