/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/11/#xubuntu-devel.txt

bluesabreochosi: poke00:58
bluesabreask the fedora guys, just delay a single release...01:10
bluesabre:)01:10
james0ri'm noticing an issue with the new power manager plugin. It seems to just grab the app icon for power manager settings now, so doesn't seem to change to reflect my current battery level.02:40
james0rof course clicking on the plugin will show my devices battery levels, but i imagine most users would like that visible on the notification panel.02:41
holsteinjames0r: you dont get battery level in the tray?02:42
james0rholstein, since yesterdays update with the staging repo no. here's a screenshot, i'm using numix-bevel iconset but it seems to affect all icons which seems right. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16833274/xfce4-power-manager-plugin.png02:44
holsteinjames0r: "the staging repo" ?02:45
holsteinjames0r: not with stock, though, correct?02:45
james0rxubuntu-dev-xubuntu-staging-trusty.list02:46
james0rright not with stock02:46
james0rshould issues regarding upgrades from this repo be brought up here or somewhere else?02:47
james0ri wasn't sure.02:47
holsteinjames0r: here is probably fine, actually.. 02:47
holsteinjames0r: i was just making sure its not with stock..02:47
james0rokay, gotcha.02:47
james0ryeah i imagine that this behavior isn't desirable so i thought i'd mention it.02:48
Unit193xfpm from there?  That's latest git, so yeah here is good to know.02:49
Unit193ochosi, bluesabre ^02:49
bluesabreochosi ^02:50
bluesabre(he's one of the two main devs for that project)02:51
bluesabrebrainwash: trusty packages uploaded to https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/ubuntu/lp132056003:14
bluesabreas usual, they are not tested, but should work fine03:15
bluesabre(still building too)03:15
RobertJDohnertWhats up guys03:15
bluesabregetting ready for bed :)03:16
QuantibilityOk.. hopping to help u while helping me.. xubuntu wont start and for those that know me I wont do a reinstall. Im in recovery mode with net support. . Using my phone to talk to u guys... perhaps we can figure out why the last update do this.. I cant cut and past but i can photo the output03:18
QuantibilityAfter I figure out how to resize screen03:19
Unit193bluesabre: http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=gdmflexiserver only about 3 pages, if you're interested.03:19
bluesabreUnit193: not particularly :)03:24
QuantibilitySo yea after updating xubuntu wont start03:24
Unit193As in, that'll help identify more in Ubuntu, but anywho.03:24
bluesabreQuantibility: not around for much longer, but if you're having issues like that, #xubuntu is going to be the best03:25
bluesabrethis channel is mainly for developmenu, #xubuntu is support03:25
QuantibilityBut u guys develop it. Updating isnt u guys? 03:25
bluesabrewe have a lot more people that are able to help with troubleshooting in #xubuntu ... updating may actually be from a component that isn't developed by our team, but by ubuntu03:27
QuantibilityFigured id give u a heads up on that then ill try the channel03:27
QuantibilityThanks. Sorry for my ignorance03:27
Unit193You also should say what version you're running.03:27
bluesabrenp, now you know :)03:27
Unit193Quantibility: There is /var/log/apt/history.log to see what's been updated.03:28
bluesabreUnit193: it does look like we have all xfce/xubuntu compenents included in our list for the gdmflexiserver thing, and I now have that link to help in the future, so thanks :)03:29
Unit193Yey!03:29
bluesabreok, heading to bed now03:33
bluesabreback in the morning03:33
bluesabrehold down the fort ;)03:33
Unit193Hopefully I'll be sleeping before morning. :P03:34
bluesabre:)03:35
elfyupdate mangler \o/ http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-110914-071527.php06:16
Unit193Haha, what's it doing, using the first desktop file it sees? :P06:43
elfy:)06:44
elfymangling I guess :D06:45
Unit193Ubuntu nagger, it nags too much.  I disabled it.06:52
elfyI don't - I don't actually use it often, but I do test the silly thing06:53
elfyochosi: so did we come to any real decision re upower - or are we still -2/+1 ish07:24
ochosielfy: not sure, bluesabre hasn't really taken a stance in the backlog and i wasn't up long enough to see him around08:15
ochosiguess we can wait another two hours for him to wake up and then take a decision08:15
ochosijames0r2: that would possibly be an issue with your icon-theme supplying the wrong icon08:16
ochosijames0r2: you can check whether these icons are there: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/data/icons/24x2408:17
Unit193< bluesabre> this affects too many desktop this late in the cycle, and the fixes aren't around for several desktops, I doubt the request would be granted  and  < bluesabre> but yeah, confirm with eric what testing may have been done, and let's do a spot check at least on hw, if we're remotely interested  seem to be an indication however.08:20
ochosiUnit193: yeah, i remember that, but that was before i talked to eric08:22
ochosii've already given him an update on that front, and just wasn't sure 100% what his final stance was08:23
Unit193Coolio.08:24
james0r2ochosi, i verified my icon set does have those icons. it's possible that the recent update of my icon set (numix-bevel) broke it somehow, but i'm noticing the same with my other iconsets as well09:10
james0r2ochosi, i believe they're in the right location as well, you can see them in this screenshot here --> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16833274/xfpm_icons.png09:13
ochosijames0r2: ok, thanks, i'll take a look09:23
=== qwebirc237809 is now known as slickymasterWork
james0rjust noticed that suspend on lid close doesn't seem to be working anymore10:21
james0ri checked the power management settings to see if something was changed but it's as i had it before, suspend is selected under "what to do when lid closed" and under "on battery.10:22
james0rversion 1.3.2+git-0~1591~ubuntu14.04.110:25
bluesabreochosi/elfy: poke10:27
ochosihey bluesabre 10:27
ochosiand good morning to you10:27
bluesabregood morning10:28
james0rusually i see activity on my notebook's LEDs but i notice nothing on lid close now10:29
james0rthe screen is being blanked though10:30
bluesabreas for my stance, I'm still kind of on the fence.  We have only a few directly affected packages, and it mainly seems to an API change. If we can't fix that (if even needed), I'd be shocked10:30
bluesabrebut if you guys are uneasy about it, I'll side with you.10:31
ochosibluesabre: the question is, is it really worth any potential hassle for us towards the end of a cycle10:34
ochosiwe have practicaly zero gain from this transition10:34
bluesabrehttp://anzwix.com/a/UPower/ReleasedUPower099010:36
knomei guesss the gain is that we don't have to do the transition later10:36
ochosibut yeah, as far as i can see it's api changes and the transition to logind handling suspend and hibernate (which we already had to deal with)10:36
knomedoing it in the first release after LTS is a good spot10:36
elfyit might be - but almost at the end of the cycle is not10:37
ochosiknome: i agree that it's a good spot, but for me a transition 6 weeks before october is a bit sucky10:37
bluesabreit seems pretty low-risk though10:38
ochosiright, so i guess that means we should give the PPA some testing10:38
bluesabrethe only reason it is a big deal is that the API did change, and thus every package had to be updated for the new call10:39
ochosi(btw, xfpm should support it out-of-the-box in utopic)10:39
elfygood luck with that 10:39
ochosielfy: i'm thinking we, the release team, should probably test it10:39
ochosito have a more empirical base for our decision10:39
ochosiif we don't have time for any testing, i'm still kinda -1 on the whole thing10:39
bluesabrehttps://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower10:41
bluesabreI'll install now regardless of the direction we decide10:41
ochosicool10:41
bluesabreif I see anything that is strongly against, I'll let you know10:41
ochosii'm @work so i can take a look the earliest in the evening10:41
ochosiover the weekend (from tomorrow morning) i'm travelling outside .at, so offline10:42
bluesabremy weekends are open, wife got a new part-time through october10:42
elfyI'm sure that the cause of bug 1208204 was low risk at the time - didn't turn out too well 10:42
ubottubug 1208204 in Ubuntu Studio "[SRU]Update indicator-sound-gtk2 with patch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120820410:42
ochosihm, i don't remember the exact consequences of that one right now10:43
bluesabrecompletely broken sound indicator10:43
bluesabreit wasn't pretty10:43
ochosiah right10:44
elfyI can add that ppa here and now10:44
bluesabreindicator-sound used the new gtk api, with stuff not available in gtk210:44
bluesabreso we were stuck10:44
elfyI'm not going to be +1'ing anything that's going to make us look like that again ;)10:44
bluesabreagreed10:44
ochosiyeah, i guess that once there is a decision on the transition, it'll move ahead, no matter what breakage it brings10:45
bluesabrewe didn't agree to that one though, it was dropped on us10:45
bluesabrea few short weeks before release10:45
elfyI know - not blaming us - was just saying :)10:45
bluesabre:)10:45
elfyright 10:46
elfyinstalled that ppa now and the screen is now black10:46
elfyso black I can see what I'm typing :p10:46
bluesabrealso note package versions, some of the -staging ppa packages might be "newer"10:47
ochosithe screen is black?10:47
elfyochosi: I'm joking :)10:47
bluesabreand obviously won't work with the newer api10:47
ochosibluesabre: yeah, i'm really really hoping that it won't create confusion with patches that were floating around and that debian included and the stuff that is in git master10:47
ochosielfy: oh, good :) no jokes with black screens!! :D10:48
elfyhe he he 10:48
bluesabreall the patches for upower are in debian10:48
bluesabreor, hopefully upstreamed10:48
bluesabreso yeah, probably ppa-purge ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging10:50
elfynot actually got any ppa's on this 10:50
bluesabreok, cool10:50
elfygot completely confused with which ones were which 10:50
* bluesabre needs to update the descriptions on those ppas today10:51
ochosihmm10:51
ochosigotta run for lunch now10:51
ochosii presume you guys won't be around anymore when i return10:51
bluesabrepretty likely10:52
ochosibluesabre: i might ping you on g+ since i'll miss you tonight as well (train leaves very early tomorrow)10:52
bluesabrealrighty10:52
ochosiokeydokey10:52
elfyochosi: I'm about till Sunday night now 10:52
ochosielfy: ah good to know10:53
ochosiso yeah, hf and ttyl!10:53
elfycya later10:53
bluesabrealrighty, time to reboot10:56
bluesabreSetting up xfce4-power-manager-data (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...10:56
bluesabreSetting up xfce4-settings (4.11.3-0ubuntu1upower1) ...10:56
bluesabrealmost missed there10:57
bluesabreSetting up xfce4-power-manager (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...10:57
bluesabreSetting up xfce4-power-manager-plugins (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...10:57
elfyI really need a newer machine ... 11:00
elfyor stop forgetting to run more than 1 vm 11:00
elfystill updating the laptop - not used very often by me :p11:14
bluesabreah11:19
bluesabreposted to wrong channel11:19
bluesabretested suspend from menu, suspend on lid close, xfpm functionality (keyboard, brightness, attached devices), shutdown, restart - all good11:19
bluesabretried hibernate, which never works for me, still doesn't11:19
bluesabrechecking system logs now11:19
elfyyep - read it - thought I would comment in here and drag you back :p11:20
bluesabre:)11:20
elfyjust testing suspendy stuff prior to the ppa11:21
bluesabregood idea11:22
elfyI don't actually use the thing for anything other than testing 11:23
bluesabreeverything seems to check out from my quick spot-check11:24
bluesabreI'll leave my computer on today and see if any mayhem ensues11:24
bluesabre:)11:24
elfylol11:25
elfyok those basic checks work ok 11:29
bluesabreso yeah, ftr, for now I am +112:11
bluesabregotta run, be back tonight12:11
elfymy position isn't actually going to change - too late imho12:11
bluesabre0Connected on my mobile.12:37
knomecongrats12:38
bluesabre0So yeah, I'm +1 because the changes that come with the new upower seem to be limited to bug fixes and API changes.  Should we go this route, it should be very low-risk for us.12:40
bluesabre0We lose nothing, and potentially fix a corner case somewhere.12:41
knome+1 for taking the new version? 12:41
elfyconversely a corner case somewhere could go horribly wrong12:41
knomewhat's our choices of taking the new version or not if it lands in the repositories?12:42
elfynot sure why everyone else should be jumping if it's gnome affected and they've left the need this late12:43
knomei guess12:43
knomebut the process unfortunately doesn't always go like that12:43
bluesabre0Right. They are well beyond feature freeze for this, and might have to suit this one out.12:44
elfymaybe not - but in my position I'm not going to change my mind 12:44
bluesabre0*sit12:44
knomeis the status quo that GNOME breaks if it's not in, but others do not necessarily need it?12:45
elfyfrom what I gather - gnome would like something - which needs new upower12:45
bluesabre0Completely different gnome version... 3.10 vs 3.1212:45
bluesabre03.12 depends on the new upowet12:45
Unit193So, will be pulling in perhaps other things we use that might break?12:45
knomeugh, changing the whole gnome stack at this point?12:46
bluesabre0We'd have to confirm. Individual packages have mostly been included already. I think it's mainly shell and dependencies12:46
knomethat alone is a no-no, especially when it affects parts that might very well break things for others12:47
knomebluesabre0, would you land xfce 4.12 at this point of the cycle?12:47
knomethat's really the main question, not if we are ok if upower version changes or not12:47
bluesabre0We ship development packages for LTS...12:47
knomei mean, for us, it's only the upower change that should matter, but from release team POV...12:48
bluesabre0Right12:48
knomebluesabre0, sure, but we didn't land them after the feature freeze, and we did test them12:48
bluesabre0They should hold off.12:48
knomebluesabre0, and they don't require packages that might break stuff for others12:48
bluesabre0Noskcaj, can you confirm what new versions of packages will land if this goes through?12:49
Unit193Debian has the new gmb.12:50
knomethe question would be completely different if they explicitly wanted to land new upower (not because of some other package) that would actually fix a bug12:50
brainwashwhat could possible break? we already are have gtk 3.1212:51
bluesabre0Right. I'm just on the side that should this land, we should be in the clear... So not really +1 as much as it is +012:51
knomebluesabre0, if it lands, and upower breaks something for us, by the new policy, the gnome team should fix our bugs.12:51
knomeor at least help fixing them, or then the new version upload should be reverted12:52
knomebrainwash, a lot can break always.12:52
knomebrainwash, besides, it's not just a technical issue, it's a social issue; there are feature freeze dates set for a reason12:52
brainwashto break them12:53
brainwashFFe12:53
bluesabre0Yes, agreed with knome12:53
brainwash:)12:53
knomeand just because the other kid wants a lollipop, that's no reason to break our toy.12:53
knomebrainwash, stop the stupid remarks. i mean it.12:53
bluesabre0From my viewpoint, new upower should not break anything for our packages. If it means other new things for us, that's the real risk12:55
brainwashwe don't know how, but we just assume that it will break our software12:55
bluesabre0We've been hurt by these things before, so we're naturally cautious12:56
knomethe decision should not be made only by judging the things that *will* break, but also the things that the new upload *risks* breaking12:56
elfywhich is why I am where I am 12:57
bluesabre0Right. New gnome could mean additional risks12:57
knomeallowing big uploads after FFe has been too easy in the history, and in the last real UDS there was (again) a decision made that it should be much harder12:57
brainwashbut I agree, there has to be some sort of blueprint12:57
brainwashso we know what is going to change12:58
knomethe problem with even creating the blueprint is that it happens at this point of the cycle12:58
knomeif the blueprint for landing new GNOME was ready, say 3 months ago, it would be a completely different situation12:58
knomebecause then we could have, for example, tested new (preliminary) package versions with our stuff12:58
bluesabre0I also want to know where this discussion is happening. I've only heard this info from Nosckaj12:59
brainwashbug 1330037 has been created on 2014-06-1412:59
knomeit's plain *wrong* to *start* *planning* a *new version* upload *after* the *FF*12:59
ubottubug 1330037 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "upower 0.99 transition" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133003712:59
knomelooks like *we* created that bug13:00
brainwashindeed13:00
knomeanyway, if the ubuntu GNOME team wants to land that change, they should have worked hard to get all of those packages "fix released"13:01
knomeif most of them aren't that at feature freeze, then it's a sign that others aren't ready for the new version upload, so they shouldn't proceed with uploading gnome 3.1213:01
elfybluesabre0: agreed - I've not seen anything on their mailing list 13:01
bluesabre0Then we agree to block this change and are ready to act if our voices are not heard.13:01
knomebluesabre0, ready to act in which way?13:02
knomewhere's the FFe bug?13:02
bluesabre0Patch our packages, test, and hope for the best :-(13:02
knomethat's stupid13:02
knomethat's exactly what the FFe process is trying to avoid13:03
bluesabre0Yeah, agreed. At the very least, we have patches in case we need them.13:03
Unit193bluesabre0: Isn't much, but http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/08/%23ubuntu-gnome.html up to today.13:03
knomebluesabre0, have *already* ?13:03
bluesabre0We have upower patches... Not necessarily other things.13:04
knomebluesabre0, well, that's soothing to know at least.13:04
knomehmm13:05
knomeslickymasterWork, installer slideshow13:05
bluesabre0I'm not defending the change at this point. But I'm ready to add support as needed.13:05
knomebluesabre0, we should be :)13:05
* knome enters panic mode13:05
knomebluesabre0, how are you available today?13:06
* bluesabre0 enters work and panic mode13:06
bluesabre0013:06
knome>__<13:06
* elfy doesn't do the panic thing13:06
elfygnome-channel on the 10th > Noskcajkubuntu says they are fine with new upower, as they don't need rebuilds, xubuntu needs to test first, so they *might* be a blocker if stuff is broken13:08
elfyseems to be just this hope from darkxst that everyone is just going to roll over and let gnome have what they want13:09
elfyand the talk is still only got as far as "we'd best do the FFe's then"13:10
elfynot sure that Noskcaj has got the right end of the stick here13:10
knomehave they talked with the release them?13:10
elfynot got that far yet13:11
* knome partly leaves the panic mode13:11
knomethe only "trusty" thing we have in the slideshow is the tahr artwork at the end of the slideshow13:12
knomeeverything else ~right, and the version number is correct13:12
bluesabre0Catfish is reliable13:13
bluesabre0;-)13:13
elfynothing in -release from darkxst about that between 4th and today 13:13
knomemhm13:13
Unit193https://launchpad.net/~darkxst/+archive/ubuntu/upower - https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower  seems to be them.13:16
knome"them"13:16
knomestill can't see a FFe bug :P13:17
elfy:)13:17
Unit193So, looks like everyone is in favor of waiting until Vicious Velociraptor.13:23
elfysilly name for Vapid Vampire13:26
knomei would call it "valid vorry" :P13:29
elfy:)13:29
knome(i know it's spelled with a w...?)13:29
knome-?13:29
knomestupid keyboard13:29
elfywalid worry?13:29
knomeno error can exist in user..13:30
* skellat notes with alarm the possibility of a nasty huge FFe and is prepared to raise objections wearing Docs hat13:54
slickymasterWorkexactly knome, just the artwork, and being the first release after LTS I don't see any urgent need in going into making changes in the other slides, or do you differ?14:24
ochosioh wow, so much backlog14:24
bluesabre0Chatty folks14:25
knomeslickymasterWork, as i said, the slides are appropriate14:25
slickymasterWorklol, ochosi, that was my exact thoughts 5 minutes ago14:25
knomeslickymasterWork, it's not a question whether we want to refresh the content, but is it simply outdated (like saying 14.04...)14:25
ochosielfy, bluesabre0: i've read the chatter in the meantime now and while i'm happy that we don't have to expect total mayhem if this transition goes down, i think we should -1 it. simply because otherwise it makes us accessories and more responsible for potential breakage14:25
slickymasterWorkwell, I wasn't sure, I noticed you were/are on panic mode :P14:26
bluesabre0ochosi, I concur14:26
slickymasterWorkit isn't. like you said yourself, just the Tahr artwork, and I'm counting on your fabulous aesthetic sense and gifted talent to produce a new one ;914:27
slickymasterWorkknome: ^^ (pretty please, with sugar on top)14:29
knomelol14:29
knomewell, the tahr was made by ochosi, so maybe he should change it to be an unicorn :P14:29
ochosiknome: could do that :)14:30
knomeit could be pretty fun to add a corn to the tahr art, then make it look like it shines :P14:30
bluesabre0+114:30
knomei need to fix some work things for a client, i can potentially look into $things after that, like the wallpaper..14:30
slickymasterWorksomething tell me that you're the one to come up with a unicorn. You have that all background of psychedelic music listener ;) 14:31
slickymasterWorkelfy would be a good choice also, with that thought in mind (something related to Tangerine Dream)14:31
bluesabre0$things=wallpaper;$things14:31
knomehah14:32
bluesabre0(Close enough)14:32
ochosiknome: so you're doing the unicorn? :)15:11
ochosiif you do, please add a rainbow and let's make the slideshow pinkish (pleia2!!)15:12
knomehuhu15:12
knomei'll consider doing it15:12
knomei need to do some more work still15:12
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
elfyochosi: thanks, so we're as one - figuratively speaking15:42
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
Unit193knome: Looked into why sv failed, turns out it has 0 translators and is 0% translated.21:33
knome:D21:33
knomegreat fail!21:33
Unit193bzr rm would make it validate. :P21:37
Unit193debian-changelog-line-too-long line 4, 5, 10.21:46
Unit193knome: You have the same thing listed twice in the changelog.21:59
knomeaha.21:59
RobertJDohnertHey Unit19322:00
RobertJDohnertHow are things in mint world22:01
Unit193Howdy.22:01
Unit193Mint?22:05
knomerandom question of the day, maybe22:06

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