[00:58] <bluesabre> ochosi: poke
[01:10] <bluesabre> ask the fedora guys, just delay a single release...
[01:10] <bluesabre> :)
[02:40] <james0r> i'm noticing an issue with the new power manager plugin. It seems to just grab the app icon for power manager settings now, so doesn't seem to change to reflect my current battery level.
[02:41] <james0r> of course clicking on the plugin will show my devices battery levels, but i imagine most users would like that visible on the notification panel.
[02:42] <holstein> james0r: you dont get battery level in the tray?
[02:44] <james0r> holstein, since yesterdays update with the staging repo no. here's a screenshot, i'm using numix-bevel iconset but it seems to affect all icons which seems right. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16833274/xfce4-power-manager-plugin.png
[02:45] <holstein> james0r: "the staging repo" ?
[02:45] <holstein> james0r: not with stock, though, correct?
[02:46] <james0r> xubuntu-dev-xubuntu-staging-trusty.list
[02:46] <james0r> right not with stock
[02:47] <james0r> should issues regarding upgrades from this repo be brought up here or somewhere else?
[02:47] <james0r> i wasn't sure.
[02:47] <holstein> james0r: here is probably fine, actually.. 
[02:47] <holstein> james0r: i was just making sure its not with stock..
[02:47] <james0r> okay, gotcha.
[02:48] <james0r> yeah i imagine that this behavior isn't desirable so i thought i'd mention it.
[02:49] <Unit193> xfpm from there?  That's latest git, so yeah here is good to know.
[02:49] <Unit193> ochosi, bluesabre ^
[02:50] <bluesabre> ochosi ^
[02:51] <bluesabre> (he's one of the two main devs for that project)
[03:14] <bluesabre> brainwash: trusty packages uploaded to https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/ubuntu/lp1320560
[03:15] <bluesabre> as usual, they are not tested, but should work fine
[03:15] <bluesabre> (still building too)
[03:15] <RobertJDohnert> Whats up guys
[03:16] <bluesabre> getting ready for bed :)
[03:18] <Quantibility> Ok.. hopping to help u while helping me.. xubuntu wont start and for those that know me I wont do a reinstall. Im in recovery mode with net support. . Using my phone to talk to u guys... perhaps we can figure out why the last update do this.. I cant cut and past but i can photo the output
[03:19] <Quantibility> After I figure out how to resize screen
[03:19] <Unit193> bluesabre: http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=gdmflexiserver only about 3 pages, if you're interested.
[03:24] <bluesabre> Unit193: not particularly :)
[03:24] <Quantibility> So yea after updating xubuntu wont start
[03:24] <Unit193> As in, that'll help identify more in Ubuntu, but anywho.
[03:25] <bluesabre> Quantibility: not around for much longer, but if you're having issues like that, #xubuntu is going to be the best
[03:25] <bluesabre> this channel is mainly for developmenu, #xubuntu is support
[03:25] <Quantibility> But u guys develop it. Updating isnt u guys? 
[03:27] <bluesabre> we have a lot more people that are able to help with troubleshooting in #xubuntu ... updating may actually be from a component that isn't developed by our team, but by ubuntu
[03:27] <Quantibility> Figured id give u a heads up on that then ill try the channel
[03:27] <Quantibility> Thanks. Sorry for my ignorance
[03:27] <Unit193> You also should say what version you're running.
[03:27] <bluesabre> np, now you know :)
[03:28] <Unit193> Quantibility: There is /var/log/apt/history.log to see what's been updated.
[03:29] <bluesabre> Unit193: it does look like we have all xfce/xubuntu compenents included in our list for the gdmflexiserver thing, and I now have that link to help in the future, so thanks :)
[03:29] <Unit193> Yey!
[03:33] <bluesabre> ok, heading to bed now
[03:33] <bluesabre> back in the morning
[03:33] <bluesabre> hold down the fort ;)
[03:34] <Unit193> Hopefully I'll be sleeping before morning. :P
[03:35] <bluesabre> :)
[06:16] <elfy> update mangler \o/ http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-110914-071527.php
[06:43] <Unit193> Haha, what's it doing, using the first desktop file it sees? :P
[06:44] <elfy> :)
[06:45] <elfy> mangling I guess :D
[06:52] <Unit193> Ubuntu nagger, it nags too much.  I disabled it.
[06:53] <elfy> I don't - I don't actually use it often, but I do test the silly thing
[07:24] <elfy> ochosi: so did we come to any real decision re upower - or are we still -2/+1 ish
[08:15] <ochosi> elfy: not sure, bluesabre hasn't really taken a stance in the backlog and i wasn't up long enough to see him around
[08:15] <ochosi> guess we can wait another two hours for him to wake up and then take a decision
[08:16] <ochosi> james0r2: that would possibly be an issue with your icon-theme supplying the wrong icon
[08:17] <ochosi> james0r2: you can check whether these icons are there: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/data/icons/24x24
[08:20] <Unit193> < bluesabre> this affects too many desktop this late in the cycle, and the fixes aren't around for several desktops, I doubt the request would be granted  and  < bluesabre> but yeah, confirm with eric what testing may have been done, and let's do a spot check at least on hw, if we're remotely interested  seem to be an indication however.
[08:22] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i remember that, but that was before i talked to eric
[08:23] <ochosi> i've already given him an update on that front, and just wasn't sure 100% what his final stance was
[08:24] <Unit193> Coolio.
[09:10] <james0r2> ochosi, i verified my icon set does have those icons. it's possible that the recent update of my icon set (numix-bevel) broke it somehow, but i'm noticing the same with my other iconsets as well
[09:13] <james0r2> ochosi, i believe they're in the right location as well, you can see them in this screenshot here --> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16833274/xfpm_icons.png
[09:23] <ochosi> james0r2: ok, thanks, i'll take a look
[10:21] <james0r> just noticed that suspend on lid close doesn't seem to be working anymore
[10:22] <james0r> i checked the power management settings to see if something was changed but it's as i had it before, suspend is selected under "what to do when lid closed" and under "on battery.
[10:25] <james0r> version 1.3.2+git-0~1591~ubuntu14.04.1
[10:27] <bluesabre> ochosi/elfy: poke
[10:27] <ochosi> hey bluesabre 
[10:27] <ochosi> and good morning to you
[10:28] <bluesabre> good morning
[10:29] <james0r> usually i see activity on my notebook's LEDs but i notice nothing on lid close now
[10:30] <james0r> the screen is being blanked though
[10:30] <bluesabre> as for my stance, I'm still kind of on the fence.  We have only a few directly affected packages, and it mainly seems to an API change. If we can't fix that (if even needed), I'd be shocked
[10:31] <bluesabre> but if you guys are uneasy about it, I'll side with you.
[10:34] <ochosi> bluesabre: the question is, is it really worth any potential hassle for us towards the end of a cycle
[10:34] <ochosi> we have practicaly zero gain from this transition
[10:36] <bluesabre> http://anzwix.com/a/UPower/ReleasedUPower0990
[10:36] <knome> i guesss the gain is that we don't have to do the transition later
[10:36] <ochosi> but yeah, as far as i can see it's api changes and the transition to logind handling suspend and hibernate (which we already had to deal with)
[10:36] <knome> doing it in the first release after LTS is a good spot
[10:37] <elfy> it might be - but almost at the end of the cycle is not
[10:37] <ochosi> knome: i agree that it's a good spot, but for me a transition 6 weeks before october is a bit sucky
[10:38] <bluesabre> it seems pretty low-risk though
[10:38] <ochosi> right, so i guess that means we should give the PPA some testing
[10:39] <bluesabre> the only reason it is a big deal is that the API did change, and thus every package had to be updated for the new call
[10:39] <ochosi> (btw, xfpm should support it out-of-the-box in utopic)
[10:39] <elfy> good luck with that 
[10:39] <ochosi> elfy: i'm thinking we, the release team, should probably test it
[10:39] <ochosi> to have a more empirical base for our decision
[10:39] <ochosi> if we don't have time for any testing, i'm still kinda -1 on the whole thing
[10:41] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower
[10:41] <bluesabre> I'll install now regardless of the direction we decide
[10:41] <ochosi> cool
[10:41] <bluesabre> if I see anything that is strongly against, I'll let you know
[10:41] <ochosi> i'm @work so i can take a look the earliest in the evening
[10:42] <ochosi> over the weekend (from tomorrow morning) i'm travelling outside .at, so offline
[10:42] <bluesabre> my weekends are open, wife got a new part-time through october
[10:42] <elfy> I'm sure that the cause of bug 1208204 was low risk at the time - didn't turn out too well 
[10:43] <ochosi> hm, i don't remember the exact consequences of that one right now
[10:43] <bluesabre> completely broken sound indicator
[10:43] <bluesabre> it wasn't pretty
[10:44] <ochosi> ah right
[10:44] <elfy> I can add that ppa here and now
[10:44] <bluesabre> indicator-sound used the new gtk api, with stuff not available in gtk2
[10:44] <bluesabre> so we were stuck
[10:44] <elfy> I'm not going to be +1'ing anything that's going to make us look like that again ;)
[10:44] <bluesabre> agreed
[10:45] <ochosi> yeah, i guess that once there is a decision on the transition, it'll move ahead, no matter what breakage it brings
[10:45] <bluesabre> we didn't agree to that one though, it was dropped on us
[10:45] <bluesabre> a few short weeks before release
[10:45] <elfy> I know - not blaming us - was just saying :)
[10:45] <bluesabre> :)
[10:46] <elfy> right 
[10:46] <elfy> installed that ppa now and the screen is now black
[10:46] <elfy> so black I can see what I'm typing :p
[10:47] <bluesabre> also note package versions, some of the -staging ppa packages might be "newer"
[10:47] <ochosi> the screen is black?
[10:47] <elfy> ochosi: I'm joking :)
[10:47] <bluesabre> and obviously won't work with the newer api
[10:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i'm really really hoping that it won't create confusion with patches that were floating around and that debian included and the stuff that is in git master
[10:48] <ochosi> elfy: oh, good :) no jokes with black screens!! :D
[10:48] <elfy> he he he 
[10:48] <bluesabre> all the patches for upower are in debian
[10:48] <bluesabre> or, hopefully upstreamed
[10:50] <bluesabre> so yeah, probably ppa-purge ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging
[10:50] <elfy> not actually got any ppa's on this 
[10:50] <bluesabre> ok, cool
[10:50] <elfy> got completely confused with which ones were which 
[10:51]  * bluesabre needs to update the descriptions on those ppas today
[10:51] <ochosi> hmm
[10:51] <ochosi> gotta run for lunch now
[10:51] <ochosi> i presume you guys won't be around anymore when i return
[10:52] <bluesabre> pretty likely
[10:52] <ochosi> bluesabre: i might ping you on g+ since i'll miss you tonight as well (train leaves very early tomorrow)
[10:52] <bluesabre> alrighty
[10:52] <ochosi> okeydokey
[10:52] <elfy> ochosi: I'm about till Sunday night now 
[10:53] <ochosi> elfy: ah good to know
[10:53] <ochosi> so yeah, hf and ttyl!
[10:53] <elfy> cya later
[10:56] <bluesabre> alrighty, time to reboot
[10:56] <bluesabre> Setting up xfce4-power-manager-data (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...
[10:56] <bluesabre> Setting up xfce4-settings (4.11.3-0ubuntu1upower1) ...
[10:57] <bluesabre> almost missed there
[10:57] <bluesabre> Setting up xfce4-power-manager (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...
[10:57] <bluesabre> Setting up xfce4-power-manager-plugins (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...
[11:00] <elfy> I really need a newer machine ... 
[11:00] <elfy> or stop forgetting to run more than 1 vm 
[11:14] <elfy> still updating the laptop - not used very often by me :p
[11:19] <bluesabre> ah
[11:19] <bluesabre> posted to wrong channel
[11:19] <bluesabre> tested suspend from menu, suspend on lid close, xfpm functionality (keyboard, brightness, attached devices), shutdown, restart - all good
[11:19] <bluesabre> tried hibernate, which never works for me, still doesn't
[11:19] <bluesabre> checking system logs now
[11:20] <elfy> yep - read it - thought I would comment in here and drag you back :p
[11:20] <bluesabre> :)
[11:21] <elfy> just testing suspendy stuff prior to the ppa
[11:22] <bluesabre> good idea
[11:23] <elfy> I don't actually use the thing for anything other than testing 
[11:24] <bluesabre> everything seems to check out from my quick spot-check
[11:24] <bluesabre> I'll leave my computer on today and see if any mayhem ensues
[11:24] <bluesabre> :)
[11:25] <elfy> lol
[11:29] <elfy> ok those basic checks work ok 
[12:11] <bluesabre> so yeah, ftr, for now I am +1
[12:11] <bluesabre> gotta run, be back tonight
[12:11] <elfy> my position isn't actually going to change - too late imho
[12:37] <bluesabre0> Connected on my mobile.
[12:38] <knome> congrats
[12:40] <bluesabre0> So yeah, I'm +1 because the changes that come with the new upower seem to be limited to bug fixes and API changes.  Should we go this route, it should be very low-risk for us.
[12:41] <bluesabre0> We lose nothing, and potentially fix a corner case somewhere.
[12:41] <knome> +1 for taking the new version? 
[12:41] <elfy> conversely a corner case somewhere could go horribly wrong
[12:42] <knome> what's our choices of taking the new version or not if it lands in the repositories?
[12:43] <elfy> not sure why everyone else should be jumping if it's gnome affected and they've left the need this late
[12:43] <knome> i guess
[12:43] <knome> but the process unfortunately doesn't always go like that
[12:44] <bluesabre0> Right. They are well beyond feature freeze for this, and might have to suit this one out.
[12:44] <elfy> maybe not - but in my position I'm not going to change my mind 
[12:44] <bluesabre0> *sit
[12:45] <knome> is the status quo that GNOME breaks if it's not in, but others do not necessarily need it?
[12:45] <elfy> from what I gather - gnome would like something - which needs new upower
[12:45] <bluesabre0> Completely different gnome version... 3.10 vs 3.12
[12:45] <bluesabre0> 3.12 depends on the new upowet
[12:45] <Unit193> So, will be pulling in perhaps other things we use that might break?
[12:46] <knome> ugh, changing the whole gnome stack at this point?
[12:46] <bluesabre0> We'd have to confirm. Individual packages have mostly been included already. I think it's mainly shell and dependencies
[12:47] <knome> that alone is a no-no, especially when it affects parts that might very well break things for others
[12:47] <knome> bluesabre0, would you land xfce 4.12 at this point of the cycle?
[12:47] <knome> that's really the main question, not if we are ok if upower version changes or not
[12:47] <bluesabre0> We ship development packages for LTS...
[12:48] <knome> i mean, for us, it's only the upower change that should matter, but from release team POV...
[12:48] <bluesabre0> Right
[12:48] <knome> bluesabre0, sure, but we didn't land them after the feature freeze, and we did test them
[12:48] <bluesabre0> They should hold off.
[12:48] <knome> bluesabre0, and they don't require packages that might break stuff for others
[12:49] <bluesabre0> Noskcaj, can you confirm what new versions of packages will land if this goes through?
[12:50] <Unit193> Debian has the new gmb.
[12:50] <knome> the question would be completely different if they explicitly wanted to land new upower (not because of some other package) that would actually fix a bug
[12:51] <brainwash> what could possible break? we already are have gtk 3.12
[12:51] <bluesabre0> Right. I'm just on the side that should this land, we should be in the clear... So not really +1 as much as it is +0
[12:51] <knome> bluesabre0, if it lands, and upower breaks something for us, by the new policy, the gnome team should fix our bugs.
[12:52] <knome> or at least help fixing them, or then the new version upload should be reverted
[12:52] <knome> brainwash, a lot can break always.
[12:52] <knome> brainwash, besides, it's not just a technical issue, it's a social issue; there are feature freeze dates set for a reason
[12:53] <brainwash> to break them
[12:53] <brainwash> FFe
[12:53] <bluesabre0> Yes, agreed with knome
[12:53] <brainwash> :)
[12:53] <knome> and just because the other kid wants a lollipop, that's no reason to break our toy.
[12:53] <knome> brainwash, stop the stupid remarks. i mean it.
[12:55] <bluesabre0> From my viewpoint, new upower should not break anything for our packages. If it means other new things for us, that's the real risk
[12:55] <brainwash> we don't know how, but we just assume that it will break our software
[12:56] <bluesabre0> We've been hurt by these things before, so we're naturally cautious
[12:56] <knome> the decision should not be made only by judging the things that *will* break, but also the things that the new upload *risks* breaking
[12:57] <elfy> which is why I am where I am 
[12:57] <bluesabre0> Right. New gnome could mean additional risks
[12:57] <knome> allowing big uploads after FFe has been too easy in the history, and in the last real UDS there was (again) a decision made that it should be much harder
[12:57] <brainwash> but I agree, there has to be some sort of blueprint
[12:58] <brainwash> so we know what is going to change
[12:58] <knome> the problem with even creating the blueprint is that it happens at this point of the cycle
[12:58] <knome> if the blueprint for landing new GNOME was ready, say 3 months ago, it would be a completely different situation
[12:58] <knome> because then we could have, for example, tested new (preliminary) package versions with our stuff
[12:59] <bluesabre0> I also want to know where this discussion is happening. I've only heard this info from Nosckaj
[12:59] <brainwash> bug 1330037 has been created on 2014-06-14
[12:59] <knome> it's plain *wrong* to *start* *planning* a *new version* upload *after* the *FF*
[13:00] <knome> looks like *we* created that bug
[13:00] <brainwash> indeed
[13:01] <knome> anyway, if the ubuntu GNOME team wants to land that change, they should have worked hard to get all of those packages "fix released"
[13:01] <knome> if most of them aren't that at feature freeze, then it's a sign that others aren't ready for the new version upload, so they shouldn't proceed with uploading gnome 3.12
[13:01] <elfy> bluesabre0: agreed - I've not seen anything on their mailing list 
[13:01] <bluesabre0> Then we agree to block this change and are ready to act if our voices are not heard.
[13:02] <knome> bluesabre0, ready to act in which way?
[13:02] <knome> where's the FFe bug?
[13:02] <bluesabre0> Patch our packages, test, and hope for the best :-(
[13:02] <knome> that's stupid
[13:03] <knome> that's exactly what the FFe process is trying to avoid
[13:03] <bluesabre0> Yeah, agreed. At the very least, we have patches in case we need them.
[13:03] <Unit193> bluesabre0: Isn't much, but http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/08/%23ubuntu-gnome.html up to today.
[13:03] <knome> bluesabre0, have *already* ?
[13:04] <bluesabre0> We have upower patches... Not necessarily other things.
[13:04] <knome> bluesabre0, well, that's soothing to know at least.
[13:05] <knome> hmm
[13:05] <knome> slickymasterWork, installer slideshow
[13:05] <bluesabre0> I'm not defending the change at this point. But I'm ready to add support as needed.
[13:05] <knome> bluesabre0, we should be :)
[13:05]  * knome enters panic mode
[13:06] <knome> bluesabre0, how are you available today?
[13:06]  * bluesabre0 enters work and panic mode
[13:06] <bluesabre0> 0
[13:06] <knome> >__<
[13:06]  * elfy doesn't do the panic thing
[13:08] <elfy> gnome-channel on the 10th > Noskcaj	kubuntu says they are fine with new upower, as they don't need rebuilds, xubuntu needs to test first, so they *might* be a blocker if stuff is broken
[13:09] <elfy> seems to be just this hope from darkxst that everyone is just going to roll over and let gnome have what they want
[13:10] <elfy> and the talk is still only got as far as "we'd best do the FFe's then"
[13:10] <elfy> not sure that Noskcaj has got the right end of the stick here
[13:10] <knome> have they talked with the release them?
[13:11] <elfy> not got that far yet
[13:11]  * knome partly leaves the panic mode
[13:12] <knome> the only "trusty" thing we have in the slideshow is the tahr artwork at the end of the slideshow
[13:12] <knome> everything else ~right, and the version number is correct
[13:13] <bluesabre0> Catfish is reliable
[13:13] <bluesabre0> ;-)
[13:13] <elfy> nothing in -release from darkxst about that between 4th and today 
[13:13] <knome> mhm
[13:16] <Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~darkxst/+archive/ubuntu/upower - https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower  seems to be them.
[13:16] <knome> "them"
[13:17] <knome> still can't see a FFe bug :P
[13:17] <elfy> :)
[13:23] <Unit193> So, looks like everyone is in favor of waiting until Vicious Velociraptor.
[13:26] <elfy> silly name for Vapid Vampire
[13:29] <knome> i would call it "valid vorry" :P
[13:29] <elfy> :)
[13:29] <knome> (i know it's spelled with a w...?)
[13:29] <knome> -?
[13:29] <knome> stupid keyboard
[13:29] <elfy> walid worry?
[13:30] <knome> no error can exist in user..
[13:54]  * skellat notes with alarm the possibility of a nasty huge FFe and is prepared to raise objections wearing Docs hat
[14:24] <slickymasterWork> exactly knome, just the artwork, and being the first release after LTS I don't see any urgent need in going into making changes in the other slides, or do you differ?
[14:24] <ochosi> oh wow, so much backlog
[14:25] <bluesabre0> Chatty folks
[14:25] <knome> slickymasterWork, as i said, the slides are appropriate
[14:25] <slickymasterWork> lol, ochosi, that was my exact thoughts 5 minutes ago
[14:25] <knome> slickymasterWork, it's not a question whether we want to refresh the content, but is it simply outdated (like saying 14.04...)
[14:25] <ochosi> elfy, bluesabre0: i've read the chatter in the meantime now and while i'm happy that we don't have to expect total mayhem if this transition goes down, i think we should -1 it. simply because otherwise it makes us accessories and more responsible for potential breakage
[14:26] <slickymasterWork> well, I wasn't sure, I noticed you were/are on panic mode :P
[14:26] <bluesabre0> ochosi, I concur
[14:27] <slickymasterWork> it isn't. like you said yourself, just the Tahr artwork, and I'm counting on your fabulous aesthetic sense and gifted talent to produce a new one ;9
[14:29] <slickymasterWork> knome: ^^ (pretty please, with sugar on top)
[14:29] <knome> lol
[14:29] <knome> well, the tahr was made by ochosi, so maybe he should change it to be an unicorn :P
[14:30] <ochosi> knome: could do that :)
[14:30] <knome> it could be pretty fun to add a corn to the tahr art, then make it look like it shines :P
[14:30] <bluesabre0> +1
[14:30] <knome> i need to fix some work things for a client, i can potentially look into $things after that, like the wallpaper..
[14:31] <slickymasterWork> something tell me that you're the one to come up with a unicorn. You have that all background of psychedelic music listener ;) 
[14:31] <slickymasterWork> elfy would be a good choice also, with that thought in mind (something related to Tangerine Dream)
[14:31] <bluesabre0> $things=wallpaper;$things
[14:32] <knome> hah
[14:32] <bluesabre0> (Close enough)
[15:11] <ochosi> knome: so you're doing the unicorn? :)
[15:12] <ochosi> if you do, please add a rainbow and let's make the slideshow pinkish (pleia2!!)
[15:12] <knome> huhu
[15:12] <knome> i'll consider doing it
[15:12] <knome> i need to do some more work still
[15:42] <elfy> ochosi: thanks, so we're as one - figuratively speaking
[21:33] <Unit193> knome: Looked into why sv failed, turns out it has 0 translators and is 0% translated.
[21:33] <knome> :D
[21:33] <knome> great fail!
[21:37] <Unit193> bzr rm would make it validate. :P
[21:46] <Unit193> debian-changelog-line-too-long line 4, 5, 10.
[21:59] <Unit193> knome: You have the same thing listed twice in the changelog.
[21:59] <knome> aha.
[22:00] <RobertJDohnert> Hey Unit193
[22:01] <RobertJDohnert> How are things in mint world
[22:01] <Unit193> Howdy.
[22:05] <Unit193> Mint?
[22:06] <knome> random question of the day, maybe