[00:06] <darkxst> Noskcaj, http://pastebin.com/JYLWEBse
[00:06] <darkxst> Noskcaj, also drop r12788, apart from being empty, its not needed
[00:07] <darkxst> also pushed a small update to the g-s-d patch
[06:30] <Noskcaj> Did you just want to do the u-c-c/u-s-d stuff yourself, since you understand it?
[06:30] <Noskcaj> I could, but i'd need like 5 attempts
[07:59] <darkxst> Noskcaj,you  u-s-d branch looks fine, you just need to re-do with the updated patch from my ppa
[08:00] <darkxst> u-c-c add the patch I sent you and probably a binary dep on logind
[08:01] <darkxst> I need to redo merges for g-s-d/g-c-c (for gnome-desktop transition) which is going to take quite some time I suspect
[08:02] <darkxst> Noskcaj, also can you put out a CFT and prepare FFe paperwork for upower
[08:02] <darkxst> (I've only tested the gnome stuff)
[08:36] <Noskcaj> yep, will do. I'll hopefully have time sunday morning, as i've got stuff to do tonight, and a soccer grand final to play tomorrow
[08:37] <darkxst> Noskcaj, ok thanks! and good luck!
[08:37] <Noskcaj> thanks
[10:23] <Noskcaj> darkxst, I'm starting to think we've went to late for the transition, especially since xfce and mate aren't 100% ready
[10:24] <darkxst> Noskcaj, they arent?
[10:24] <knome> darkxst, there's no way to predict all implications on everything using upower
[10:25] <Noskcaj> and some guys in mate are worried that systemd-shim might not be enough for some of their stuff
[10:25] <darkxst> knome, I can predict the implications, based on the upower changes
[10:26] <knome> darkxst, no you can't.
[10:26] <darkxst> Noskcaj, how exactly does systemd-shim even come into this conversation?
[10:26] <knome> darkxst, i understand the upower change is part of you wanting to land a new version of GNOME. what other packages that might affect us are changing?
[10:26] <Noskcaj> suspend is dropped in upower, uses systemd
[10:28] <darkxst> knome, the upower api changes are pretty simple, small changes in the signals could I suppose slip through but easily fixed
[10:29] <darkxst> knome, only other disruptive FFe we are planning is gnome-desktop, but don't think that would affect xfce
[10:29] <knome> darkxst, "I suppose could slip through" doesn't make me very assured that it's wise to land the change
[10:29] <Noskcaj> i have to go now, bye
[10:30] <knome> darkxst, did you talk with the release team already?
[10:31] <knome> landing a new DE version after FF isn't really a small thing
[10:31] <knome> considering there *might* be implications to others, especially with the upower chane
[10:31] <knome> +g
[10:32] <knome> and tbh, the freeze dates are there for a reason... they are just not technical, they are also social
[10:32] <knome> *not just
[10:33] <darkxst> knome, yes I know all about freezes, nearly all our work has to land after freeze, since we are generally blocked all cycle by u-desktop work
[10:34] <knome> is there a public blueprint for the changes you plan to land after FF?
[10:40] <darkxst> knome, no, the only thing that really might affect anyone else though is upower
[10:41] <knome> i'm not assured about that.
[10:44] <darkxst> knome, gnome-desktop only affects unity afaik
[10:44] <knome> at least i will expect you to file the FFe bug, list all packages that will be changing and so on
[10:44] <knome> and by you i mean i would prefer if you filed it, not make Noskcaj file it
[10:47] <darkxst> knome, we already have a bug tracking the upower transistion, Noskcaj will add the FFe paperwork, then I will review that and add any missing bits
[10:48] <knome> darkxst, i'm sad that you make others do the dirty laundry for you; why won't you file the bug yourself?
[10:49] <darkxst> knome, its called delegation! I can't possibly do everything myself!
[10:49] <knome> sure, but you are responsible that the FFe goes smoothly, not Noskcaj
[10:54] <darkxst> knome, yes, and Noskcaj is great a packaging and what not, where as I am more a coder, if things break I will make patches to fix
[10:54] <knome> darkxst, i'm not talking about doing the packaging work, i'm talking about taking the social responsibility
[10:56] <darkxst> knome, bug 1330037, noskcaj filed that and not about to file a new bug just to get my name against it.
[10:57] <knome> that's of course irreversible, but i'm talking about the whole process.
[10:57] <darkxst> knome, and believe me, release team know I follow up on these things
[10:58] <knome> that we will see
[11:04] <knome> darkxst, i guess my point is: think how the way you have been preparing the changes looks to us
[11:05] <knome> we have no information about what's going to land, we have no direct contact with you even if a package upload affects us
[11:05] <knome> and to top that off, it's already past FF and you are planning to land a new DE version
[11:05] <darkxst> knome, all the changes are from upstream, apart from ubuntu stuff
[11:06] <darkxst> knome, upower is not a DE
[11:06] <knome> yes, but the decision to land it after FF in ubuntu is yours, not upstreams
[11:06] <knome> gnome-desktop is
[11:06] <darkxst> knome, no it is not a DE either
[11:07] <knome> i understand you want new features in, but i'm not sure if after FF really is the only place when you can do that
[11:07] <darkxst> gnome-desktop is a library that is a bit mixed up, the stuff apps use like thumbnailers etc is largely unchanged
[11:08] <knome> are you even trying to understand?
[11:08] <darkxst> the rest of it that only affects unity has been blocked for ~9months now, Bug 1228765
[11:09] <darkxst> knome, its not like we just decided to land that now
[11:09] <knome> maybe being past the FF is a signal that you are too late for 14.10
[11:10] <darkxst> knome, if that was the case we would never land anything ;(
[11:10] <knome> if it is not too late, what are freezes for then?
[11:11]  * knome shrugs
[11:11] <darkxst> knome, we have a massive overlap with ubuntu-desktop
[11:12] <darkxst> and each cycle we are blocked waiting on them to do stuff, (and that is even worse now -touch is about)
[11:12] <knome> that sounds like another social issue to be solved
[11:12] <darkxst> how is that social?
[11:13] <knome> working in a way that allows both parties to move forward and discuss changes as you go so u-g doesn't have to land all their stuff after FF?
[11:28] <darkxst> knome, we work closely with ubuntu-desktop, but its just not their priority
[11:29] <darkxst> knome, I have to run now  anyway, will be back later
[11:30] <knome> i understand that, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem... (and i feel for you for that)
[11:30] <knome> have a nice day!