| MurkyBanana | hi daftykins | 00:26 |
|---|---|---|
| ikonia | he's not in here | 00:26 |
| ikonia | oh he is | 00:27 |
| ikonia | what's up ? | 00:27 |
| ikonia | daftykins: what's up ? | 00:28 |
| daftykins | i was just directed toward the channel log - and feel greatly inconvenienced seeing that conversation in PM was taken here and shared. | 00:28 |
| daftykins | that's not only bad netiquette, but in my opinion wrong on a personal level | 00:29 |
| ikonia | ? | 00:30 |
| daftykins | the log also points out that there are those of you who take an interest in the management of my conduct in a way that's far less than objective | 00:30 |
| ikonia | sorry, don't know what you're on about, any chanc eyou could fill me in ? | 00:30 |
| daftykins | i was PM'd with regard to my conduct in #ubuntu - and my conversation there was pasted here. | 00:31 |
| ikonia | I've certainly not seen that/aware of it | 00:32 |
| ikonia | probably best to just talk to the guy you're not happy with | 00:33 |
| daftykins | well that's not relevant | 00:33 |
| daftykins | my comments obviously refer to more than one user | 00:33 |
| ikonia | .....ok | 00:33 |
| ikonia | not obviously as I don't know what you're talking about | 00:33 |
| ikonia | sorry | 00:33 |
| daftykins | obvious given that i used the words 'there are those of you' | 00:34 |
| daftykins | anyway, i'm not getting sidelined into some grammatical debate | 00:34 |
| ikonia | ok, you seem a bit annoyed, understandable, and as I don't know what this is about, i'll back away as I don't want to cause any more angry | 00:34 |
| rww | ikonia: it's about http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/14/%23ubuntu-ops.html | 00:34 |
| daftykins | i'm disappointed in those mentioned, i wouldn't say anger. | 00:35 |
| rww | and since I'm assuming that I'm "far less than objective" because I have an opinion, i'm not dealing with it | 00:35 |
| daftykins | rww: you weren't the target of that comment there, but it's useful to know that we can't have a conversation about the issues i've raised | 00:36 |
| ikonia | daftykins: ok, so some of the operators have had a conversation that you're not happy about, I understand that, what would you like to happen ? | 00:36 |
| rww | daftykins: well, as you can see, I tend to strongly agree that you need to take a break. since your response to bazhang was... apparently not positive... i figured my similar opinion also would not be | 00:36 |
| rww | s/$/ welcome/ | 00:37 |
| rww | anyways, my apologies for misinterpreting | 00:37 |
| daftykins | that idea isn't the current topic, sir | 00:37 |
| ikonia | daftykins: what would you like to happen ? | 00:38 |
| daftykins | tell me, is it normal that you have someone approach a user privately who then reproduces their conversation in here to you all? | 00:38 |
| ikonia | certainly not the norm | 00:38 |
| rww | and as far as posting PMs goes: while I agree that posting such PMs publicly was not particularly tactful, I think it's reasonable that such conversations be shared with ops in general (e.g. in our unlogged channel) | 00:38 |
| rww | so I will LART bazhang a bit for doing that | 00:39 |
| daftykins | it's evident from the log that he was developing a bit of an issue with my actions at the time before he decided to contact me, in which case it was definitely not appropriate that he did | 00:40 |
| daftykins | which is what i would guess led to the unsavoury result | 00:40 |
| ikonia | ok - so what would you like to happen | 00:41 |
| ikonia | how can we make this better for you ? | 00:41 |
| daftykins | can you calm down on the pressuring please, i'm not exactly operating at full capacity right now | 00:41 |
| ikonia | ok, perhaps best to come back when you're feeling better | 00:41 |
| ikonia | last thing I want to do is make you feel worse | 00:42 |
| daftykins | no i can cope with this conversation as long as you don't keep subverting it | 00:42 |
| daftykins | :) | 00:42 |
| ikonia | then please tell us what you want | 00:42 |
| ikonia | how we can make it better for you | 00:42 |
| rww | suggestion: 1) daftykins, take a few days off, IRC sucks when one isn't doing well (I know firsthand), 2) everyone else (including me) should ponder appropriate behavior in public channels | 00:42 |
| daftykins | ikonia: you're really not helping :P | 00:43 |
| daftykins | obviously i don't want to hear of a repeat of this, you guys are not above 'the law' and so shouldn't act like this | 00:43 |
| ikonia | daftykins: I've got a better idea then | 00:44 |
| daftykins | personal events in my life have no bearing on your 'job' | 00:44 |
| ikonia | how about a.) you leave this channel and come back when you can communicate better | 00:44 |
| ikonia | I'm getting a bit tired of your attitude now | 00:44 |
| ikonia | asking how we can make it better for you is not trying to cause a problem | 00:44 |
| daftykins | seriously? i just want to say my piece and you're badgering me | 00:44 |
| ikonia | it's trying to understand what we can do to make it feel better | 00:44 |
| ikonia | yeah, seriously | 00:45 |
| daftykins | there's not even that much i want to say but you keep interrupting | 00:45 |
| ikonia | then go | 00:45 |
| daftykins | anywho in addition, i have an issue with seeing myself developing some 'bad record' when you guys have no way of allowing anyone to create a good record | 00:46 |
| daftykins | no user can say to you, oh hey user x helped with so-and-so query - they did good | 00:46 |
| ikonia | errr we see that all the time | 00:46 |
| daftykins | so you only have a neutral reference point and then negatives | 00:47 |
| ikonia | no we don't | 00:47 |
| daftykins | 'that'? | 00:47 |
| ikonia | we see great people all the time | 00:47 |
| ikonia | and have high opinions of a lot of good people | 00:47 |
| rww | amusingly, we get people in here complaining that we play favorites and let regulars get away with things that randoms don't | 00:47 |
| daftykins | purely off your own memory though? | 00:47 |
| ikonia | no | 00:47 |
| daftykins | or you have some kind of system... | 00:47 |
| ikonia | off logs, repeated good contributions, memory, discussions with others | 00:48 |
| ikonia | a mixture of many things | 00:48 |
| daftykins | seems unlikely that you would trawl logs for good things versus bad :) | 00:48 |
| ikonia | we don't trawl logs for good / bad | 00:48 |
| ikonia | unless there is a specific reason to check a log | 00:49 |
| daftykins | either way, i seem to be getting in the crosshairs a bit too much | 00:50 |
| daftykins | and that log showed some a little more heated than others | 00:50 |
| ikonia | what is it you actually want ? | 00:51 |
| daftykins | to make the above feelings known, which i've now done | 00:51 |
| ikonia | ok, I'm sorry you feel that, but part of that is down to your incorrect assumptions | 00:51 |
| daftykins | ikonia: i'm genuinely at a loss as to why i've aggravated you just by wanting to discuss some things by the way. | 00:52 |
| daftykins | oh? which assumptions were they? | 00:52 |
| ikonia | honestly ? | 00:52 |
| ikonia | that we don't have good perceptions of people | 00:52 |
| ikonia | I dra | 00:53 |
| ikonia | I dread to ask, but I will | 00:53 |
| ikonia | "how can we make you feel better about this"? | 00:54 |
| daftykins | sec my cat is attacking something she shouldn't | 00:54 |
| ikonia | no-one wants you feeling like it's all negative peceptions, so have a think and if there is something to discuss about how we can make you feel a bit better about things within the channel, we can discuss it | 00:55 |
| daftykins | well i seemed to manage to even get you riled purely from wanting to have a chat :P | 00:55 |
| daftykins | so that's a little concerning | 00:55 |
| ikonia | not really | 00:55 |
| ikonia | you got me riles up because you describve the team as "fuck tards" | 00:55 |
| ikonia | brag to a troll channel | 00:56 |
| ikonia | which provokes a troll abuse hit and run | 00:56 |
| ikonia | and then come in with a sad story | 00:56 |
| daftykins | i can't control the actions of others, i was pretty annoyed at that though | 00:56 |
| ikonia | yeah you can | 00:56 |
| ikonia | a.) the team is fuck tards | 00:56 |
| ikonia | you said that - you can control your self | 00:56 |
| ikonia | b.) you know the people in the channel - you know their attitude, yet you still chose to do it, knowing what it often causes | 00:57 |
| ikonia | you control that | 00:57 |
| daftykins | do what? | 00:57 |
| ikonia | so again - your sad story of a pm - which I accept isn't nice, and I'm sure we can do better with that, doesn't really make me shed tears | 00:57 |
| daftykins | hmm, you're changing tack a fair bit | 00:58 |
| ikonia | no, I'm not | 00:58 |
| ikonia | you've come in to complain, I get that, I'm happy to help make it better | 00:58 |
| ikonia | but it's hard to take the "negative peception" complaint seriously, when you describe the people you are trying ot talk to as fucktards to a known troll put | 00:58 |
| ikonia | pit | 00:58 |
| daftykins | but anyway, i'd be nice if there'd be some up front discussion prior to any drastic actions be taken, shall we say | 00:58 |
| ikonia | you want respect, and polite conversation, think about the peception you give out | 00:58 |
| ikonia | daftykins: it would be nice if there was some discussion before you call the team fucktards | 00:59 |
| daftykins | sounds more like you're talking about channel users rather than you ops, now | 00:59 |
| ikonia | daftykins: no, I'm talking about you | 00:59 |
| ikonia | your actions | 00:59 |
| ikonia | your way you want to discuss things | 00:59 |
| daftykins | i'm not going to defend a frustrated remark on seeing what conduct went on. | 00:59 |
| ikonia | daftykins: good, | 00:59 |
| ikonia | then I'm not going to defend an op sharing his concerns about your comments with the team | 01:00 |
| ikonia | in future we'll try to do that better in private | 01:00 |
| daftykins | i didn't even know what channel he was from when i got PM'd | 01:00 |
| ikonia | so ? | 01:00 |
| ikonia | I'm sure he talked to you about it and explained the channel | 01:00 |
| ikonia | or what does it matter | 01:01 |
| daftykins | nope | 01:01 |
| daftykins | no intro, just a riddle of advice which seemed to come from nowhere | 01:01 |
| daftykins | it was all a bit of a mess really | 01:02 |
| ikonia | thats easy to clean up | 01:02 |
| ikonia | I'd hardly call that an issue | 01:02 |
| daftykins | it's just really quite disappointing to see how you guys function | 01:02 |
| daftykins | now i mean i'd been warned, but i'd not seen it first hand | 01:02 |
| ikonia | thanks for sharing your dissapointment | 01:03 |
| ikonia | I'm pretty concerned how you function / or don't function to be honest | 01:03 |
| ikonia | I'd always supported your help, but I'm questioning that now | 01:03 |
| daftykins | that sounds a little personal | 01:03 |
| ikonia | yes, it is | 01:03 |
| ikonia | I'm concerned about how you function within the IRC channels/don't function | 01:03 |
| ikonia | to clarify | 01:03 |
| daftykins | supported my help? what kind | 01:04 |
| ikonia | you know the negative peception stuff you referenced earlier | 01:04 |
| ikonia | I've always said positive stuff | 01:04 |
| ikonia | (certainly that I can remember) | 01:04 |
| daftykins | i'm genuinely saddened to hear you say that's changed, i don't really see how i've done that | 01:04 |
| ikonia | ahh well | 01:05 |
| ikonia | not to worry | 01:05 |
| ikonia | however I fully understand your dissapointed about the percieved poor communication | 01:05 |
| ikonia | I'm sure we will do better to make sure private conversations aren't shared in a public channel | 01:06 |
| ikonia | and that there is a better introduction to a private conversation | 01:06 |
| daftykins | that would definitely be useful. | 01:06 |
| ikonia | I know I've certianly not done the best introductions in pm's in the best | 01:06 |
| ikonia | can't promise it won't happen, as humans slip up, but it's certainly not the norm | 01:07 |
| daftykins | a good analogy i think would be that of police visiting a property, you know who they are from the uniform. on IRC - not everyone's going to sit there and whois everyone - if that would even give anything away | 01:07 |
| daftykins | so yeah, wouldn't hurt for a brief exchange with PMs | 01:07 |
| ikonia | I'm not really interested in an analogy | 01:07 |
| daftykins | wow | 01:08 |
| ikonia | I'm interested in not sharing pm data incorrectly, and being more clear / better introduction in pm | 01:08 |
| daftykins | right, well it's becoming pretty apparent that you'd rather i be on my way given that tone there | 01:09 |
| ikonia | yes, | 01:09 |
| ikonia | personally I would | 01:09 |
| daftykins | this is just adding to the negatives with you guys, FYI | 01:09 |
| ikonia | FYI: it's added to the negative of you FYI | 01:10 |
| ikonia | just being honest | 01:10 |
| daftykins | mmmhmm, that's a little school level | 01:10 |
| ikonia | not at all | 01:10 |
| ikonia | it's not tit for tat | 01:10 |
| ikonia | it's the truth | 01:10 |
| ikonia | if you want me to lie and saw "I'd love you to stay and blow up an mistake with a pm" then sure, | 01:11 |
| daftykins | sorry i don't follow that sentence | 01:11 |
| ikonia | but I don't think that will help anyone | 01:11 |
| ikonia | fully understand about the pm though, and I'm sure we can and will do better with that | 01:11 |
| daftykins | and hopefully open up a dialogue before any drastic actions too | 01:12 |
| ikonia | drastic actions ? | 01:12 |
| ikonia | it was a pm ? | 01:12 |
| ikonia | no-ones done anything drastic | 01:12 |
| daftykins | i'm referring to the future | 01:12 |
| daftykins | hence the 'before' bit | 01:12 |
| ikonia | depends | 01:12 |
| ikonia | if you chose to speak to "US" before ranting in other channels and calling the team names, I'm sure that will open a dialog | 01:13 |
| ikonia | if you chose to continue to behave as you are doing, I can't see it being helpful | 01:13 |
| daftykins | as in right this moment, coming in here? | 01:14 |
| ikonia | that would be a start | 01:14 |
| ikonia | or talking to the people involved | 01:14 |
| ikonia | whatever you feel comfortable with | 01:14 |
| daftykins | no, i'm asking if that's what you mean by 'behave as you are doing' | 01:14 |
| ikonia | check the advice you where given from rww and bazhang | 01:14 |
| ikonia | rather than go over it again | 01:15 |
| ikonia | or better still, talk to them in more detail | 01:15 |
| ikonia | (if it's unclear) | 01:15 |
| daftykins | nah i just didn't follow your sentences there for the first couple of reads | 01:16 |
| ikonia | ok | 01:16 |
| daftykins | ok, ta-ra for now then | 01:17 |
| ikonia | bye | 01:17 |
| bazhang | <ruu> when did ubuntu switch from main/contrib/nonfree to main/restricted/universe/multiverse? | 01:34 |
| bazhang | is he confusing debain? | 01:34 |
| ikonia | looks that way | 01:35 |
| === Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok | ||
| bazhang | !info selinux | 11:27 |
| ubottu | selinux (source: selinux): Security-Enhanced Linux runtime support. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:0.11 (trusty), package size 10 kB, installed size 82 kB | 11:28 |
| bazhang | how is selinux not supported | 11:28 |
| ikonia | he's not using selinux | 11:28 |
| ikonia | he's trying to set up scientific linux for his intern job | 11:28 |
| ikonia | I spoke to him about it 2 times already stating that #ubuntu does not support SL | 11:28 |
| ikonia | he agreed | 11:28 |
| ikonia | and he keeps using #ubuntu for his "intern" support so he doesn't have to ask his mentors | 11:29 |
| ikonia | eg: setting up a HP pro-curve switch | 11:29 |
| ikonia | he's been spoken to about using #ubuntu as #intern-support at least 5 times | 11:29 |
| ikonia | and about SL 2 more times | 11:29 |
| quantibility | huh? | 16:18 |
| ubottu | In #ubuntu, Rhapsody said: ubottu: Trick is, this is a seperate SSD. | 21:52 |
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