[00:26] hi daftykins [00:26] he's not in here [00:27] oh he is [00:27] what's up ? [00:28] daftykins: what's up ? [00:28] i was just directed toward the channel log - and feel greatly inconvenienced seeing that conversation in PM was taken here and shared. [00:29] that's not only bad netiquette, but in my opinion wrong on a personal level [00:30] ? [00:30] the log also points out that there are those of you who take an interest in the management of my conduct in a way that's far less than objective [00:30] sorry, don't know what you're on about, any chanc eyou could fill me in ? [00:31] i was PM'd with regard to my conduct in #ubuntu - and my conversation there was pasted here. [00:32] I've certainly not seen that/aware of it [00:33] probably best to just talk to the guy you're not happy with [00:33] well that's not relevant [00:33] my comments obviously refer to more than one user [00:33] .....ok [00:33] not obviously as I don't know what you're talking about [00:33] sorry [00:34] obvious given that i used the words 'there are those of you' [00:34] anyway, i'm not getting sidelined into some grammatical debate [00:34] ok, you seem a bit annoyed, understandable, and as I don't know what this is about, i'll back away as I don't want to cause any more angry [00:34] ikonia: it's about http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/14/%23ubuntu-ops.html [00:35] i'm disappointed in those mentioned, i wouldn't say anger. [00:35] and since I'm assuming that I'm "far less than objective" because I have an opinion, i'm not dealing with it [00:36] rww: you weren't the target of that comment there, but it's useful to know that we can't have a conversation about the issues i've raised [00:36] daftykins: ok, so some of the operators have had a conversation that you're not happy about, I understand that, what would you like to happen ? [00:36] daftykins: well, as you can see, I tend to strongly agree that you need to take a break. since your response to bazhang was... apparently not positive... i figured my similar opinion also would not be [00:37] s/$/ welcome/ [00:37] anyways, my apologies for misinterpreting [00:37] that idea isn't the current topic, sir [00:38] daftykins: what would you like to happen ? [00:38] tell me, is it normal that you have someone approach a user privately who then reproduces their conversation in here to you all? [00:38] certainly not the norm [00:38] and as far as posting PMs goes: while I agree that posting such PMs publicly was not particularly tactful, I think it's reasonable that such conversations be shared with ops in general (e.g. in our unlogged channel) [00:39] so I will LART bazhang a bit for doing that [00:40] it's evident from the log that he was developing a bit of an issue with my actions at the time before he decided to contact me, in which case it was definitely not appropriate that he did [00:40] which is what i would guess led to the unsavoury result [00:41] ok - so what would you like to happen [00:41] how can we make this better for you ? [00:41] can you calm down on the pressuring please, i'm not exactly operating at full capacity right now [00:41] ok, perhaps best to come back when you're feeling better [00:42] last thing I want to do is make you feel worse [00:42] no i can cope with this conversation as long as you don't keep subverting it [00:42] :) [00:42] then please tell us what you want [00:42] how we can make it better for you [00:42] suggestion: 1) daftykins, take a few days off, IRC sucks when one isn't doing well (I know firsthand), 2) everyone else (including me) should ponder appropriate behavior in public channels [00:43] ikonia: you're really not helping :P [00:43] obviously i don't want to hear of a repeat of this, you guys are not above 'the law' and so shouldn't act like this [00:44] daftykins: I've got a better idea then [00:44] personal events in my life have no bearing on your 'job' [00:44] how about a.) you leave this channel and come back when you can communicate better [00:44] I'm getting a bit tired of your attitude now [00:44] asking how we can make it better for you is not trying to cause a problem [00:44] seriously? i just want to say my piece and you're badgering me [00:44] it's trying to understand what we can do to make it feel better [00:45] yeah, seriously [00:45] there's not even that much i want to say but you keep interrupting [00:45] then go [00:46] anywho in addition, i have an issue with seeing myself developing some 'bad record' when you guys have no way of allowing anyone to create a good record [00:46] no user can say to you, oh hey user x helped with so-and-so query - they did good [00:46] errr we see that all the time [00:47] so you only have a neutral reference point and then negatives [00:47] no we don't [00:47] 'that'? [00:47] we see great people all the time [00:47] and have high opinions of a lot of good people [00:47] amusingly, we get people in here complaining that we play favorites and let regulars get away with things that randoms don't [00:47] purely off your own memory though? [00:47] no [00:47] or you have some kind of system... [00:48] off logs, repeated good contributions, memory, discussions with others [00:48] a mixture of many things [00:48] seems unlikely that you would trawl logs for good things versus bad :) [00:48] we don't trawl logs for good / bad [00:49] unless there is a specific reason to check a log [00:50] either way, i seem to be getting in the crosshairs a bit too much [00:50] and that log showed some a little more heated than others [00:51] what is it you actually want ? [00:51] to make the above feelings known, which i've now done [00:51] ok, I'm sorry you feel that, but part of that is down to your incorrect assumptions [00:52] ikonia: i'm genuinely at a loss as to why i've aggravated you just by wanting to discuss some things by the way. [00:52] oh? which assumptions were they? [00:52] honestly ? [00:52] that we don't have good perceptions of people [00:53] I dra [00:53] I dread to ask, but I will [00:54] "how can we make you feel better about this"? [00:54] sec my cat is attacking something she shouldn't [00:55] no-one wants you feeling like it's all negative peceptions, so have a think and if there is something to discuss about how we can make you feel a bit better about things within the channel, we can discuss it [00:55] well i seemed to manage to even get you riled purely from wanting to have a chat :P [00:55] so that's a little concerning [00:55] not really [00:55] you got me riles up because you describve the team as "fuck tards" [00:56] brag to a troll channel [00:56] which provokes a troll abuse hit and run [00:56] and then come in with a sad story [00:56] i can't control the actions of others, i was pretty annoyed at that though [00:56] yeah you can [00:56] a.) the team is fuck tards [00:56] you said that - you can control your self [00:57] b.) you know the people in the channel - you know their attitude, yet you still chose to do it, knowing what it often causes [00:57] you control that [00:57] do what? [00:57] so again - your sad story of a pm - which I accept isn't nice, and I'm sure we can do better with that, doesn't really make me shed tears [00:58] hmm, you're changing tack a fair bit [00:58] no, I'm not [00:58] you've come in to complain, I get that, I'm happy to help make it better [00:58] but it's hard to take the "negative peception" complaint seriously, when you describe the people you are trying ot talk to as fucktards to a known troll put [00:58] pit [00:58] but anyway, i'd be nice if there'd be some up front discussion prior to any drastic actions be taken, shall we say [00:58] you want respect, and polite conversation, think about the peception you give out [00:59] daftykins: it would be nice if there was some discussion before you call the team fucktards [00:59] sounds more like you're talking about channel users rather than you ops, now [00:59] daftykins: no, I'm talking about you [00:59] your actions [00:59] your way you want to discuss things [00:59] i'm not going to defend a frustrated remark on seeing what conduct went on. [00:59] daftykins: good, [01:00] then I'm not going to defend an op sharing his concerns about your comments with the team [01:00] in future we'll try to do that better in private [01:00] i didn't even know what channel he was from when i got PM'd [01:00] so ? [01:00] I'm sure he talked to you about it and explained the channel [01:01] or what does it matter [01:01] nope [01:01] no intro, just a riddle of advice which seemed to come from nowhere [01:02] it was all a bit of a mess really [01:02] thats easy to clean up [01:02] I'd hardly call that an issue [01:02] it's just really quite disappointing to see how you guys function [01:02] now i mean i'd been warned, but i'd not seen it first hand [01:03] thanks for sharing your dissapointment [01:03] I'm pretty concerned how you function / or don't function to be honest [01:03] I'd always supported your help, but I'm questioning that now [01:03] that sounds a little personal [01:03] yes, it is [01:03] I'm concerned about how you function within the IRC channels/don't function [01:03] to clarify [01:04] supported my help? what kind [01:04] you know the negative peception stuff you referenced earlier [01:04] I've always said positive stuff [01:04] (certainly that I can remember) [01:04] i'm genuinely saddened to hear you say that's changed, i don't really see how i've done that [01:05] ahh well [01:05] not to worry [01:05] however I fully understand your dissapointed about the percieved poor communication [01:06] I'm sure we will do better to make sure private conversations aren't shared in a public channel [01:06] and that there is a better introduction to a private conversation [01:06] that would definitely be useful. [01:06] I know I've certianly not done the best introductions in pm's in the best [01:07] can't promise it won't happen, as humans slip up, but it's certainly not the norm [01:07] a good analogy i think would be that of police visiting a property, you know who they are from the uniform. on IRC - not everyone's going to sit there and whois everyone - if that would even give anything away [01:07] so yeah, wouldn't hurt for a brief exchange with PMs [01:07] I'm not really interested in an analogy [01:08] wow [01:08] I'm interested in not sharing pm data incorrectly, and being more clear / better introduction in pm [01:09] right, well it's becoming pretty apparent that you'd rather i be on my way given that tone there [01:09] yes, [01:09] personally I would [01:09] this is just adding to the negatives with you guys, FYI [01:10] FYI: it's added to the negative of you FYI [01:10] just being honest [01:10] mmmhmm, that's a little school level [01:10] not at all [01:10] it's not tit for tat [01:10] it's the truth [01:11] if you want me to lie and saw "I'd love you to stay and blow up an mistake with a pm" then sure, [01:11] sorry i don't follow that sentence [01:11] but I don't think that will help anyone [01:11] fully understand about the pm though, and I'm sure we can and will do better with that [01:12] and hopefully open up a dialogue before any drastic actions too [01:12] drastic actions ? [01:12] it was a pm ? [01:12] no-ones done anything drastic [01:12] i'm referring to the future [01:12] hence the 'before' bit [01:12] depends [01:13] if you chose to speak to "US" before ranting in other channels and calling the team names, I'm sure that will open a dialog [01:13] if you chose to continue to behave as you are doing, I can't see it being helpful [01:14] as in right this moment, coming in here? [01:14] that would be a start [01:14] or talking to the people involved [01:14] whatever you feel comfortable with [01:14] no, i'm asking if that's what you mean by 'behave as you are doing' [01:14] check the advice you where given from rww and bazhang [01:15] rather than go over it again [01:15] or better still, talk to them in more detail [01:15] (if it's unclear) [01:16] nah i just didn't follow your sentences there for the first couple of reads [01:16] ok [01:17] ok, ta-ra for now then [01:17] bye [01:34] when did ubuntu switch from main/contrib/nonfree to main/restricted/universe/multiverse? [01:34] is he confusing debain? [01:35] looks that way === Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok [11:27] !info selinux [11:28] selinux (source: selinux): Security-Enhanced Linux runtime support. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:0.11 (trusty), package size 10 kB, installed size 82 kB [11:28] how is selinux not supported [11:28] he's not using selinux [11:28] he's trying to set up scientific linux for his intern job [11:28] I spoke to him about it 2 times already stating that #ubuntu does not support SL [11:28] he agreed [11:29] and he keeps using #ubuntu for his "intern" support so he doesn't have to ask his mentors [11:29] eg: setting up a HP pro-curve switch [11:29] he's been spoken to about using #ubuntu as #intern-support at least 5 times [11:29] and about SL 2 more times [16:18] huh? [21:52] In #ubuntu, Rhapsody said: ubottu: Trick is, this is a seperate SSD.