[03:33] <shay_shay> after an update my etc/resolv.conf is empty
[03:34] <shay_shay> and i try reconnection to my DHCP provider (which is dnsmasq) on different essid and even by cat5 patch cable
[03:34] <shay_shay> and it wont populate the dns address automatically
[03:35] <shay_shay> it works on all other devices in the house so I believe it is a utipic issue as this is the only system with utopic on it. any troubleshooting tips?
[03:35] <shay_shay> s/utipic/utopic
[06:56] <shay_shay> TJ-: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aad2211f1ckl9jd/IMG_20140916_235452.jpg?dl=0
[06:57] <shay_shay> This is with upstart options --debug --verbose
[06:58] <TJ-> shay_shay: I'd suspect the radeon message is pretty bad
[07:00] <shay_shay> Its always done that
[07:00] <shay_shay> Its been doing that for years... Coincidence I think
[07:00] <shay_shay> You don't think?
[07:01] <shay_shay> I'm wondering what's after it
[07:01] <shay_shay> How can I determine the order of upstart scripts?
[07:06] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:08] <lordievader> shay_shay: Is that the last message you see? The one about the radeon?
[07:08] <shay_shay> yes
[07:09] <lordievader> shay_shay: Do you run a radeon?
[07:09] <shay_shay> yes
[07:09] <shay_shay> its always done that its because the card is proprietary apple versio
[07:09] <lordievader> shay_shay: Looks to me like the driver fails to load the proper firmware and then gives up.
[07:11] <elfy> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22312#c10
[07:12] <elfy> also bug 1315944 if you want to me too it
[07:16] <shay_shay> Well I got the message to go away by adding this:i915.modeset=0 radeon.modeset=0
[07:17] <shay_shay> Still stuck same spot
[07:19] <shay_shay> Like I said, that message must be a coincidence
[07:19] <shay_shay>  i'm on kernel 3.15.9 and have been for almost a month
[07:21] <lordievader> !info linux-image-generic utopic
[07:21] <shay_shay> I was getting deadlocks on 3.16
[07:22] <shay_shay> 3.15.9 was the latest kernel without deadlocks
[07:22] <shay_shay> I can try the main kernel again hold on
[07:22] <shay_shay> I still have it installed
[07:23] <lordievader> Your deadlock might be related to this problem.
[07:28] <shay_shay> Is it okay to use .efi.signed kernel without the efi shim?
[07:32] <shay_shay> Well.. I hate to reinstall and have it work fine
[07:32] <shay_shay> It wouldn't be very educational
[07:34] <shay_shay> It definitely gets stuck in a different place for this kernel
[07:34] <shay_shay> Much earlier in the boot sequence it seems
[07:52] <shay_shay> Gonna try this lol: for pkg in `dpkg --get-selections | awk '{print $1}' | egrep -v '(dpkg|apt|mysql|mythtv)'` ; do apt-get -y --force-yes install --reinstall $pkg ; done
[07:53] <shay_shay> Bigger hammer method
[11:22] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[13:56] <yeats> this is probably in an FAQ somewhere, but will 14.10 be using systemd?
[13:59] <BluesKaj> yeats, yes
[13:59] <yeats> BluesKaj: thanks
[13:59] <BluesKaj> fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your pov
[14:07] <yeats> BluesKaj: yeah, just want to start using it to get the experience, since I've never used it much
[14:14] <BluesKaj> if you installed the latest build then you probly already have systemd, yeats
[14:14] <BluesKaj> or upgraded
[14:16] <yeats> installing 14.10 in a vm now
[19:25] <lordievader> Is it my setup or a bug that NFS mounts are trying to be mounted before there is a network connection available?
[19:27] <lordievader> Also, both upstart and systemd are installed on my machine, you guessed it, what is actively being used?
[19:29] <BluesKaj> lordievader, why do we need both? i have the same
[19:30] <lordievader> I have no idea, hence the question. I think the init of upstart is still used though.
[19:32] <BluesKaj> I've heard bad things about systemd
[19:43] <ikonia> lordievader: how do you know systemd is installed
[19:43] <ikonia> lordievader: there is one dependency needed for udev, but it's not actually systemd
[19:43] <ikonia> are you sure it is systemd the agent/daemon thats installed ?
[19:46] <lordievader> ikonia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8367125/ Is what made me wonder.
[19:47] <lordievader> ikonia: I have no idea if that is the by now famous systemd init system. That is why I started asking here.
[19:47] <ikonia> so that certainly looks like it's the full init system
[19:47] <ikonia> is the systemd process pid 0
[19:47] <ikonia> or pid 1 I should say
[19:48] <BluesKaj> ikonia, muon here shows sytem and systemd-shim installed
[19:48] <BluesKaj> err systemd
[19:48] <lordievader> ikonia: Pid 1 is /sbin/init
[19:48] <ikonia> lordievader: ......
[19:48] <lordievader> So it's still upstart?
[19:48] <ikonia> certainly looks that way, but then why is the rest of the systemd stuff there
[19:49] <ikonia> (part of it has to be for udev and dbus etc)
[19:49] <lordievader> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8367133/ are processes with systemd in their name.
[19:50] <rww> so systemd isn't PID1.
[19:50] <ikonia> cool, so thats not systemd
[19:50] <ikonia> thats still upstart
[19:50] <ikonia> that's just the udev stuff I mentioned earlier
[19:50] <rww> (and I expect systemd is co-installable with upstart, so that's not particularly confusing)
[19:50] <lordievader> ikonia: Great, thanks for the clarification :)
[19:50] <rww> I'd be interested in what package(s) are depending on the systemd package, though.
[19:51] <ikonia> rww: it is, but the packages list lordievader posted seems a bit full on for the dependency stuff for udev
[19:51] <rww> it is, hence my interest
[19:51] <BluesKaj> ikonia, what's your opinion of systemd, some blogs say it's restrictive and goes against open source development. Is this true?
[19:51] <rww> (aptitude why systemd would do it on aptitude. i have no idea how to do it in other apt stuff)
[19:52] <ikonia> BluesKaj: I don't think it goes agaist opensource, I think it's a beast that someones created to "beat the desktop war",
[19:52] <ikonia> I saw no problem with legacy methods, but the truth is udev and other stuff now need it, so like it or not, it's not going away
[19:52] <ikonia> RHEL has commented to it for 12 years, so it's here
[19:52] <BluesKaj> poettering is the name I heard
[19:52] <ikonia> quicker we accept it and make it work well, the better it will be
[19:52] <lordievader> Reverse dependecies of systemd: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8367153/
[19:52] <ikonia> BluesKaj: ah the open letter then
[19:53] <lordievader> Udev is among them.
[19:53] <BluesKaj> yes
[19:53] <lordievader> rww: Reverse dependencies with apt: apt-cache rdepends <package-name>
[19:53] <rww> that's depends, not just recommends? huh.
[19:53] <ikonia> so basically the udev stuff is pulling in the systemd agent but not configuring it for use
[19:53] <rww> seems a bit excessive, but maybe I'm too used to older versions of systemd-shim etc.
[19:53] <ikonia> this is going to be a mess
[19:53] <rww> why?
[19:54] <ikonia> rww: it is excessive
[19:54] <ikonia> looks like %70 of systemd is pulled in, but not actually using systemd
[19:54] <rww> well, if we didn't want useless cruft in our packages, we'd be using Gentoo and USE flags ;)
[19:55] <rww> as long as it's not running, *shrug*
[19:55] <ikonia> rww: more confusing and technically messy, as opposed to a problem
[19:55] <BluesKaj> so systemd is just sitting there lurking , but not doing anything?
[19:55] <rww> ikonia: yeah, I'm with you on that
[19:55] <rww> lol "lurking"
[19:56] <ikonia> BluesKaj: pretty much yes, not doing anything as an init system but certainly interfacing with udev
[19:56] <ikonia> (and a few other intergrated services)
[19:56] <BluesKaj> rww, yeah waiting to pounce and muck things up :)
[19:56] <ikonia> BluesKaj: it actually works very well, so don't fear it, but it's also a handful to manage
[19:57] <rww> BluesKaj: for what it's worth, systemd *is* PID 1 on all of my gear, and works fine, and has since Debian stable was Debian testing
[19:57] <rww> hence me not noticing dependency creep, apparently
[19:58] <BluesKaj> rww, ikonia , so why all the fear mongering on the forums ?
[19:58] <rww> the political war around systemd probably isn't on-topic for #ubuntu+1, but in general it's just that, a political war
[19:58] <ikonia> BluesKaj: it's pretty long winded to go into
[19:58] <rww> also, that ^
[19:59] <BluesKaj> it's on topic if 14.10 is going to use it
[19:59] <rww> It doesn't use it, it (apparently) installs it.
[20:00] <rww> and I'm strongly considering booting up a 14.10 daily and aptituding around until I figure out why it's doing that
[20:00] <rww> and the political drama surrounding $package isn't on-topic for a support channel
[20:01] <BluesKaj> i watched it install a while back during an upgrade and apt and muon both show it as installed
[20:01] <ikonia> I didn't think systemd was a target for 14.10
[20:01] <rww> ikonia: systemd as PID1 is not a target for 14.10
[20:01] <ikonia> good
[20:01] <rww> dependencies of systemd-shim: http://packages.ubuntu.com/utopic/systemd-shim don't include systemd, so I wonder what that's about
[20:01] <ikonia> I thought not
[20:02] <ikonia> rww: it's the udev stuff that's pulled it in from what I'm reading
[20:02] <ikonia> udev and logind
[20:02] <ikonia> BluesKaj: 14.10 won't use systemd - so don't worry
[20:02] <ikonia> BluesKaj: think of it as a few libraries ready for when it comes online
[20:03] <rww> ikonia: http://packages.ubuntu.com/utopic/udev
[20:03] <BluesKaj> ok ikonia, thanks
[20:03] <ikonia> thats a surprise rww
[20:04] <rww> not really, just means I'm not going crazy, which we all knew ;)
[20:04] <ikonia> although.....
[20:04] <rww> but yeah, I'd want aptitude why output. there's a reason I don't use apt-*, it's confusing as heck
[20:04] <ikonia> so udev is now part of the systemd "source" package, so I wonder if thats causing a bit of name confusion
[20:05] <rww> possibly.
[20:05] <ikonia> I can't be bothered tonight, but I will check it out, as I'm curious
[20:06] <BluesKaj> well, it's been a long day, these old eyes need a rest... later folks
[21:28] <kbroulik> is anyone working on the gdb issue "Got object file from memory but can't read symbols: File truncated"? makes debugging and proper bug reporting impossible if you cannot get any backtraces :)