[00:31] <popey> well!
[06:24] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[06:24] <Myrtti> moin
[06:24] <brobostigon> guten morgen Myrtti
[06:43] <ali1234> remember the old update manager that didn't pop up and steal focus at 7:45 EVERY DAY? it just had an indicator when there were updates
[06:43] <ali1234> is that still available somewhere?
[06:48] <Myrtti> you can change it to notify once a week...
[06:48] <Myrtti> but yeah, that notification icon would be lovely
[06:55] <Myrtti> well. It's a good thing I didn't strip the bed for washing the bedsheets...
[06:56]  * jussi01 waves
[07:51] <DJones> popey: Have you updated your map yet? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29330265
[07:51] <DJones> 23GB free disk space. The full world is approximately 20GB uncompressed.
[07:55] <DJones> bigcalm: May something your interested in as well ^^
[07:55]  * brobostigon will need to get his external hdd out, for enough space to download it.
[07:56] <Myrtti> aw man
[07:56] <Myrtti> my laptop has a dead bright pixel
[08:08] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Punctuation Day! :-D
[08:14] <brobostigon> morning JamesTait
[08:28] <popey> DJones: download link?
[08:28] <DJones> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/innovate/developers/minecraft-map-britain.html
[08:28] <foobarry> Myrtti: thats the most annoying thing
[08:29] <Myrtti> foobarry: the dead bug is more annoying - it's bigger
[08:29] <foobarry> :(
[08:29] <foobarry> i've been bitten alive by bugs lately
[08:29] <foobarry> must have 25 bites on me
[08:39] <diddledan> foobarry: you must be tasty
[08:40] <DJones> popey: Just downloaded & tried, there's no readme file in the zip archive, but I just dumped it into my saves folder & unziped & works fine
[08:41] <foobarry> my wife says she doesn't get them because marmite
[08:41] <diddledan> foobarry: yeah they get their feet stuck in marmite if you plaster yourself with it
[08:42] <diddledan> :-p
[08:50] <dutchie> foobarry: :(
[08:50] <dutchie> i have a nice big ulcer on my tongue
[08:51] <foobarry> i'm due some ulcers after eating pringles
[08:51] <foobarry> mouth is too narrow for 5 at once
[08:57] <dutchie> heh
[09:06] <foobarry> http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/23/6834755/samsung-to-end-laptop-sales-in-europe
[09:06] <foobarry> including chromebooks
[09:07] <directhex> weird. i thought chromebooks sold well
[09:07] <diddledan> ALL laptop sales?
[09:07] <diddledan> wow
[09:09] <ujjain> in the UK you can withdraw from most ATM's for free right? I heard in the US sometimes a bank rquires you to use its own ATMs, I just signed up for Nationwide Plus, so just curious if I coud be charged using Lloyds ATms
[09:10] <diplo> ujjain, yes most are free, you get charged for using some third party ones but most banks don't charge now
[09:10] <diplo> It tells you on the ATM anyway
[09:14] <ujjain> ah great
[09:14] <DJones> czajkows1i: You need to get yourself one of the http://goo.gl/SZYlXV
[09:14] <ujjain> right, some atms in clubs charge like 2 pounds
[09:14] <czajkows1i> DJones: oh I do indeed
[09:15] <czajkows1i> DJones: instead I give you https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/514487093129908225/photo/1
[09:15] <diplo> ujjain, yeah and places like Theme parks etc and some pubs
[09:16] <DJones> czajkows1i: I saw that last night as twitter scrolled past, very worrying
[09:16] <diplo> and events, but places like Supermarkets, banks etc all are free
[09:26] <foobarry> the builder who is quoting our extension says we need to get the party wall agreement sorted...what does that mean?
[09:27] <Myrtti> do you share a wall with a neighbour?
[09:27] <Myrtti> do you plan to share?
[09:27] <DJones> foobarry: http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/mar/14/home-extensions-plans-party-wall
[09:28] <Myrtti> mmm. or that
[09:28] <foobarry> the extension will go to the boundary
[09:28] <Myrtti> there you go then.
[09:29] <Myrtti> "You need to serve notice on all the owners of every neighbouring property affected by the works, both freeholders and leaseholders."
[09:29] <foobarry> seems confusing as i thought the planning permission covers this
[09:29] <DJones> https://www.gov.uk/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance "The act covers new building on or at the boundary of 2 properties"
[09:29] <foobarry> since the council write to the neighbours
[09:51] <aquarius> that "cat" in the topic looks like a koala. :)
[10:17] <foobarry> http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=17392
[10:17] <foobarry> replacement for truecrypt
[10:25] <diddledan> foobarry: too late for me - I've moved to encfs
[10:25] <directhex> i just keep all my naked selfies on iCloud, so i don't have any false sense of security from using an encrypted filesystem
[10:27] <diddledan> directhex: this isn't for naked selfies - those I don't encrypt
[10:27] <diddledan> directhex: this is for things like ssh certs
[10:29] <diddledan> I need them on all my systems but there's no reasonable way of doing that without a third-party involved (that I've found)
[10:32] <directhex> just store it on github. use quadruple-rot13 for encryption
[10:43] <diddledan> yey http://www.geek.com/apple/iphone-6s-are-being-bent-in-peoples-pockets-including-mine-1605177/
[10:58] <foobarry> meh
[10:59] <foobarry> "pressure of fabric against your skin"
[10:59] <foobarry> = being sat on?
[10:59] <Myrtti> tight jeans and front pocket
[10:59] <foobarry> lots of forces applying pressure
[10:59] <Myrtti> bend to sit, the fabric goes taught
[11:07] <shauno> doesn't this happen every year?  every time there's a new iphone, people suddenly re-discover that when you bend things, they bend
[11:09] <zmoylan-pi> apple will have to give all users a free titanium non bendy case :-)
[11:09] <zmoylan-pi> or are they going to say that they're meant to bend?
[11:10] <diddledan> they're not meant to not bend
[11:12] <foobarry> they aren't meant to be subjected to warping forces
[11:16] <zmoylan-pi> what % put their phone in their pocket?
[11:16] <diddledan> the majority?
[11:17] <zmoylan-pi> probably for teenagers and those in 20s maybe but i suspect it falls after that
[11:18] <directhex> chances are, when field-testing the phone, everyone had it in a bulky case designed to hide its true shape
[11:19] <directhex> also, all apple staff wear tan-colored cargo trousers, which have deep loose pockets
[11:19] <zmoylan-pi> and they didn't have it going through enough bars in hipsters pockets this release :-)
[11:19] <shauno> mine lives in my pocket.  I just don't extend that to sitting on them
[11:19] <Azelphur> My coat has a phone pocket, I put it in there
[11:20] <zmoylan-pi> i reckon my nokia dumbphone will be safe in my back pocket when i occasionly stick it there it i'm not wearing a fleece/jacket with pockets
[11:21] <shauno> lol.  your nokia dumbphone will be safe when only cockroaches rule the world
[11:21] <Azelphur> nothing wrong with nokia dumb phones if it's all you want :)
[11:21] <Azelphur> http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/226/893/tumblr_lwve5bG5781qewacoo1_r1_500.jpg :P
[11:21] <zmoylan-pi> i did use one of it's predecessors a nokia n70 to bang a nail into a door frame to make a point to my boss about how a crappy nokia was better than his shiny new ruggedised pocket pc
[11:23] <shauno> I had a friend with a 'ruggedised' phone a good 7-8 years ago.  chocolate-block style but dressed up so it looked like it was a car tyre
[11:23] <shauno> he dropped it in a pint to prove it was waterproof.  it never worked again
[11:23] <zmoylan-pi> my boss dropped his pocket pc onto carpet and battery shook lose.  i threw the n70 at ceiling knocking out tile and let it bounce off floor on way down and it was grand
[11:24] <Azelphur> I've tipped a bottle of water over my LG G Watch :D
[11:24] <Azelphur> and taken it in the shower once
[11:25] <shauno> this kinda stuff cracks me up though; http://forums.androidcentral.com/htc-one-m8/381873-bent-m8.html
[11:25] <shauno> bend your android phone, it's a "curiousity".  bend an iphone, and it's bend-gate!
[11:25] <Azelphur> shauno: I'm sure you could find similar posts about the iphone 5 ;)
[11:26] <shauno> oh I know you can
[11:26] <directhex> www.lg.com/us/mobile-phones/gflex !
[11:27] <Azelphur> hehe
[11:28] <directhex> shauno: "bendghazi"
[13:46] <Azelphur> I'm trying to find out what power supply a Mad Catz Strike 7 keyboard takes, nowhere seems to mention it, frustrating.
[13:54] <daftykins> Azelphur: no power specs written on the device?
[13:54] <Azelphur> daftykins: it says "Operating voltage 5V" but that could mean practically anything since it's not the input.
[13:55] <daftykins> :/
[13:55] <daftykins> weird
[13:55] <daftykins> nothing beside the socket at all?
[13:56] <Azelphur> daftykins: nope, the socket is just a wire
[13:57] <Azelphur> ie there's a wire that comes out of the keyboard with a female socket for you to plug the power into
[13:58] <daftykins> oh that's weird
[13:58] <Azelphur> the G19 does the same thing
[13:59] <diddledan> what does it say on the wall-wart they provided?
[13:59] <Azelphur> wall-wart?
[13:59] <daftykins> mains adapter
[13:59] <Azelphur> I don't have it, if I had it that'd make life a whole lot easier ;)
[13:59] <daftykins> i suspect Azelphur has been without from the start
[13:59] <Azelphur> indeed
[14:00] <diddledan> seems odd to me to provide a powered keyboard without an adapter
[14:00] <daftykins> i suspect it's second hand ;)
[14:00] <Azelphur> indeed
[14:01] <diddledan> you could get a multivolt adapter and try your luck
[14:01] <Azelphur> diddledan: well was hoping to know without trying my luck and destroying it :P
[14:01] <Azelphur> although, I think it's broken already tbh.
[14:01] <diddledan> but if it's 5v internally then I suspect it'll be 5v input
[14:01] <foobarry> wow. #muslimapologies is the oddest hashtag i ever read
[14:02] <diddledan> foobarry: is it bad?
[14:02] <foobarry> its weird. supposed to be ironic messages from muslims "aplogising" for things they shouldn't have to apologise for
[14:03] <diddledan> Azelphur: it won't be less than 5v because that's what it uses internally, so assuming it's 5v input your only concern is the polarity
[14:03] <Azelphur> indeed, that was my thinking
[14:04] <diddledan> I get the impression that most DC adapters these days are + on the inner-pole
[14:04]  * zmoylan-pi sees diddledan in immediate future holding smoking piece of hardware cursing that assumption :-)
[14:05] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I tend to check like Azelphur is doing
[14:05] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:05] <diddledan> if it's unclear then I'll only use the same brand of adapter
[14:06] <diddledan> e.g. most netgear boxes for consumerland tend to be the same power requirements
[14:06] <Azelphur> oh well, I gotta go for now, if anyone happens to find it let me know :)
[14:14] <popey> Azelphur: open it up and see where the wire goes, will be very easy to see which is +ve and which is -ve
[14:15] <popey> -ve will go to some ground plane, +ve may well even be marked on the board, and will go to the power pins of whatever ICs are in it
[14:22] <Myrtti> Dear Agony Aunt, am I normal? I'm a 34 years old nerd and I'm considering making the information leaflet to be included with the wedding invitations with LaTeX. PLZ REPLY SOON!!!111 xxx Myrtti xxx
[14:23] <directhex> using LaTeX makes you a fetishist
[14:23] <diddledan> some people have allergies. you gotta remember that
[14:24] <diddledan> so for them you'll have to use something other than LaTeX
[14:25] <zmoylan-pi> putting the details in a qr code so guests can scan the info directly into their phones makes you a nerd
[14:25] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: don't give her ideas!
[14:25] <zmoylan-pi> with klingon translation... :-p
[14:25] <directhex> QR code confetti
[14:27] <Myrtti> QR is already a given, I'm marrying this man https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mobile-barcoder/?src=userprofile
[14:28] <diddledan> Duncan Sample? that's a rare surname.
[14:29] <foobarry> saw a brochure the other day that had a page full of QR codes in such low res that none of them worked. obviously the people putting it together had no clue what a QR code was and how to test it
[14:29] <directhex> http://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/
[14:30] <diddledan> lmao
[14:30] <diddledan> is that indicative that nobody scans qr codes?
[14:30] <foobarry> i scanned one at oggcamp once
[14:30] <foobarry> because the url was so long
[14:30] <directhex> diddledan: yes
[14:30] <zmoylan-pi> i take pics of them and scan them when i get home :-)
[14:35] <popey> i know someone who has a qr code for their wifi
[14:35] <popey> so you just scan it and you're connected without having to type the pw in
[14:36] <foobarry> how does that work?
[14:36] <foobarry> oh cool
[14:36] <popey> standard feature on android
[14:36] <popey> she has it hanging in her lounge
[14:36] <daftykins> i was gonna do that for mine
[14:36] <popey> she also but an nfc tag behind the picture
[14:36] <daftykins> but really i don't want everyone jumping on mine :D
[14:36] <popey> well, it's on the inside of her house
[14:36] <foobarry> good if you have multiple SSID
[14:36] <diplo> I like that idea popey, may have to look at doing that!
[14:36] <popey> if strangers are in her lounge, she has bigger things to worry about
[14:36] <foobarry> visitors SSID
[14:36] <popey> yeah
[14:37] <popey> shame ubuntu phone doesn't do that yet
[14:37] <popey> i have to type the silly long key in
[14:37] <daftykins> i have friends of friends pop by sometimes, wouldn't necessarily want them all :)
[14:37] <foobarry> what phones will ubuntu phone work on?
[14:37] <popey> it currently works on nexus 4
[14:37] <popey> new phone will be available very soon
[14:38] <foobarry> i was hoping my next phone would be ubuntu but i ran out of waiting time
[14:38] <zmoylan-pi> i just tell people i'll email them the wifi key :-)
[14:38] <popey> is the wifi key your email address? ☻
[14:39] <diplo> And done!
[14:39] <diplo> Will test it when I get home :)
[14:39]  * popey needs to finish his talk for xda developer conf
[14:41]  * dutchie needs to finish oggcamp talk
[14:41]  * popey is re-using his xda talk for oggcamp ☻
[14:56] <davmor2> popey: cheapskate, we'll start calling you jono ;)
[15:13] <arsen> anyone have virgin's 152Mb cable?
[15:13] <arsen> theoretically i've had it a few days - but i cant say ive seen speed change at all.
[15:14] <awilkins> I have the 60 and rarely get above ~ 25-30Mbit/s
[15:14] <awilkins> Because this is mostly OK for my needs, I haven't bothered complaining
[15:15] <awilkins> But "speed" is a vague definition
[15:15] <arsen> i "had" 60, and usually got 60ish
[15:15] <awilkins> Latency? You're unlikely to see improvements
[15:15] <arsen> i now "have" 152, apparently... and i'm getting 50-60 still :D
[15:15] <awilkins> Yeah, but is the limit at your end, or the server?
[15:42] <davmor2> I had the 60 it got upgraded so now I'm on 100 I get between 80-100 normally but it can be fairly low sometimes depending on the site
[15:50] <popey> i ave 100 now...
[15:50] <popey> well ~105
[15:52]  * foobarry installing MAAS
[15:52] <popey> MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
[15:55] <awilkins> Monkeys As A Service?
[15:56] <Laney> MAAS as a service
[15:56] <diddledan> yey monkeys!
[15:56] <diddledan> I expect shakespear in a week
[15:56] <foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/MzdbQSj.jpg
[15:57] <diddledan> what you doing?
[15:57] <diddledan> lotsa putes
[15:57] <foobarry> we haz 20 computers
[15:57] <diddledan> \o/
[15:57] <foobarry> for running openstack testing
[15:57] <diddledan> aah
[15:58] <diddledan> not for bitcoining then ? :-p
[15:58] <foobarry> nah, not my thing
[15:58] <diddledan> dual network? red + blue?
[16:00] <diddledan> it's annoying that switch vendors are shoving extra fibre ports on them to justify keeping the price high
[16:00] <diddledan> I see 4 on that unit?
[16:01] <foobarry> AFAIK u need dual homed nodes
[16:08] <NET||abuse> anyone try gnome alongside unity here?
[16:08] <NET||abuse> i'm dying to try it again, been 2 years since i've looked
[16:08] <NET||abuse> but i can't risk my unity environment.
[16:09] <NET||abuse> is 13.10 or 13.12 stable enought to install and run in tandem with unity?
[16:09] <NET||abuse> i'm on 14.04..
[16:12] <diddledan> and this is an example of why version numbers on their own are useless - try being more explicit :-)
[16:13] <diddledan> 13.10 == saucy. 13.12 == beta of trusty?
[16:13] <NET||abuse> blurg, sorry, haha, no, Gnome versions 13.10 and 13.12.. not ubuntu versions
[16:13] <diddledan> >.<
[16:13] <NET||abuse> :)
[16:13] <popey> i think you mean 3.10 and 3.12
[16:14] <NET||abuse> ..... arrg
[16:14] <NET||abuse> i want to stab my own face through the internet now
[16:14] <diddledan> here, let me do that for you
[16:14] <diddledan> *pokity poke poke*
[16:14] <NET||abuse> so back to the question,, has anyone installed Gnome 3.10 or 3.12 alongside unity on ubuntu 14.04?
[16:15] <NET||abuse> any experience on the install proceedure, or making sure your unity doesn't 'splode on you:?
[16:16] <diddledan> if you have the space to spare I'd suggest dual-booting with ubuntu-gnome (is that the right name?)
[16:17] <diddledan> http://ubuntugnome.org/
[16:22] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[16:22] <bigcalm> Is there a utility to test the health of an SSD?
[16:23] <awilkins> Standard disk utility?
[16:23] <awilkins> The cogwheely thing has a SMART / selftest menu
[16:23] <bigcalm> The what?
[16:24] <awilkins> For each disk, there is a button with a cogwheel when you select it
[16:24] <bigcalm> Okay
[16:25] <awilkins> Mine says 1 bad sector
[16:25] <bigcalm> I'll reboot into Ubuntu and hope the system stays stable long enough to run a test
[16:25] <awilkins> Not sure eSata supports full SMART
[16:25] <awilkins> Or maybe SSD doesn't support it
[16:26] <awilkins> Lots more stats on my spinning rust
[16:26] <diddledan> usb doesn't support smart usually afaict
[16:26] <diddledan> esata should be just as capable as internal sata - it's only a different connector otherwise the same
[16:27] <awilkins> Nope... not sure if this eSATA port is just a USB one mounted on a header inside the case or not
[16:27] <awilkins> But some SMART
[16:27] <awilkins> So I guess it's just that the disk doesn't support some metrics
[16:27] <awilkins> 841 power cycles!
[16:27] <awilkins> 1 failed sector
[16:28] <diddledan> a lot of the standard hdd smart stuff is not needed on ssd so they just don't expose it
[16:28] <ali1234> NET||abuse: ubuntu heavily patches gtk which causes a lot of problems in gnome
[16:29] <ali1234> but the patches are only active if unity is installed
[16:29] <ali1234> installing gnome along side unity is unlikely to break unity and very likely to break gnome
[16:30] <diddledan> yey?
[16:30] <diddledan> :-p
[16:30]  * bigcalm drums fingers
[16:32] <bigcalm> Self-test in progress -- 90% remaining
[16:32] <bigcalm> It's been like that for a while
[16:32] <bigcalm> Air temp has increased from 37C to 42C
[16:33] <bigcalm> Is there any need for swap these days?
[16:39] <bigcalm> Oo, 20% done
[16:47] <popey> bigcalm: depends what you do with the computer
[16:55] <bigcalm> popey: what's it good for?
[16:55] <bigcalm> I don't use sleep or hibinate
[16:58] <NET||abuse> so nobobdy tried gnome 3.xx in tandem with unity on 14.04?
[16:58] <NET||abuse> i know you suggested using gnome respin, but I don't have the disk space.
[16:59] <NET||abuse> certainly not the will to repartition :)
[17:44] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I generally don't bother with swap
[17:44] <bigcalm> intrbiz: collecting the keys to our new house on Monday. Unlikely that I'll be attending badminton :S
[17:45] <intrbiz> bigcalm: no worries, seems like an important excuse
[17:45] <bigcalm> Contracts were exchanged today. Flipping stressful time
[17:45] <bigcalm> Ta
[17:48] <intrbiz> bigcalm: and then you've got to move
[17:48] <bigcalm> intrbiz: We gave our 1 month notice to our landlady today. So we have a little time
[17:49] <bigcalm> But the sooner we're out, the less I have to spend on bills for 2 properties
[17:51] <intrbiz> sure
[17:52] <intrbiz> bigcalm: how is the ssd?
[17:52] <bigcalm> intrbiz: still running the SMART test
[17:53] <bigcalm> The machine hasn't frozen yet
[17:53] <intrbiz> bigcalm: right, is it hanging or panicing?
[17:53] <bigcalm> I'm going to reinstall Ubuntu later just to be on the safe side and see how it copes tomorrow
[17:54] <bigcalm> intrbiz: the system appears to slow down over about 10 seconds and then freezes. Have to do a hard reset to use the machine again
[17:54] <bigcalm> Thing is, once I've done a hard reset, it works for the rest of the day without problem
[17:54] <intrbiz> bigcalm: got swap? how much ram?
[17:56] <bigcalm> 8gb ram. Swap is 4.3gb, but swap is off
[17:56] <bigcalm> intrbiz: the freezing happens even if I do nothing with the system
[18:00] <bigcalm> What should I look for in syslog?
[18:00] <bigcalm> I assume that syslog is where kernel panics go
[18:01] <davmor2> bigcalm: oh nice on the house keys dude :)
[18:01] <intrbiz> bigcalm: often a panic only get logged to the console
[18:02] <DJones> bigcalm: Whats the issue with the SSD? Its not a silly boot issue where half the time it fails to boot & goes into a text loop is it?
[18:02] <intrbiz> bigcalm: the last thing in messages before the report might be of interest
[18:03] <bigcalm> DJones: I don't know if there's a problem with the SSD. Just something worth checking
[18:04] <intrbiz> bigcalm: have you tried running memtest, might be worth ruling out dodgy memory
[18:04] <bigcalm> intrbiz: yep, left it running for 2 passes (that takes a long time). No errors
[18:06] <intrbiz> bigcalm: hmm, ok
[18:07] <bigcalm> syslog - http://paste.ubuntu.com/8419845/
[18:08] <bigcalm> There's not /var/log/messages in Ubuntu :| Does it all get sent to syslog instead?
[18:11] <bigcalm> lastlog and faillog are just full of ^@
[18:12] <intrbiz> bigcalm: /var/log/syslog is essentially /var/log/messages, different files names in different distros
[18:13] <bigcalm> Right
[18:13] <bigcalm> SSD check just finished and it passed okay from what I can see
[18:14] <bigcalm> dmesg.0 doesn't show anything helpful that I can see
[18:15] <bigcalm> Xorg.0.log.old - http://paste.ubuntu.com/8419888/
[18:16] <bigcalm> It's not included at the bottom of that paste, but it's full of ^@ when I view the file with less
[18:17] <bigcalm> What other logs might I look at?
[18:20] <daftykins> what's the SMART data on the SSD? smartctl -a /dev/sdX
[18:23] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8419943/
[18:24] <intrbiz> bigcalm: smart looks fine
[18:25] <popey> \o/ six giffgaff SIMs active!
[18:25] <popey> thats 8 total in this house
[18:25] <popey> ETOOMANYPHONENUMBERS
[18:26] <daftykins> bigcalm: ah have you read about the firmware bug with them, it was meant to only be causing poor read speeds after 6+ months of use, but there may well be an update available
[18:54] <daftykins> ah they must not have released it yet
[18:57] <davmor2> popey: thanks god for addressbooks right ;)
[18:58] <popey> heh
[19:03] <davmor2> popey: it's the best quiz in the world http://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/can-you-guess-how-old-these-kittens-are?bffbuk#4g9h0q8
[19:07] <popey> 15 out of 15
[19:46] <foobarry> haven't got any cashback  on Gigggaff in yonks
[19:50] <foobarry> i fear my new phone results in requiring new data plan cos i'm browsingn faster now
[19:50] <daftykins> haha
[19:57] <popey> my father in law just bought iphone for him and m-i-l
[19:57] <popey> i sent him a couple of giffgaff sims for them
[19:57] <daftykins> another pair lost ;)
[19:59] <foobarry> my gg sim was old as not a push-out microsim option, so i had to cut with scissors
[19:59] <foobarry> just roughly cut round another micro sim. seems to work ok
[20:00] <daftykins> i was in a similar situation when i bought my Nexus 4. i popped along the high-street here, my telco didn't offer any help but a mate works in a rival telco and chopped it down with a glorified holepunch for me \o/
[20:00] <popey> yeah, i cut my first sim manually when i switched from htc hero to iphone
[20:01] <foobarry> htc hero AKA jimmy hill
[21:12] <diddledan> joy. amazon aws/ec2 two days' notice of reboot
[21:13] <zmoylan-pi> what, are they running windows or something? :-)
[21:14] <diddledan> amazon?
[21:14] <diddledan> I would figure they're running amazon linux
[21:14] <intrbiz> diddledan: I got about 1 months notice for a reboot on mine
[21:15] <diddledan> intrbiz: we did on another machine but this is specifically highlighted as short-notice
[21:15] <intrbiz> diddledan: does it have local storage?
[21:15] <diddledan> the email is subjectified: "Near-term AWS maintenance event notice"
[21:17] <diddledan> they also state "You will not be able to stop/start or re-launch instances in order to avoid this maintenance update."
[21:18] <intrbiz> right
[21:21] <intrbiz> where do ubuntu folk tend to put there server ssl certs / keys?
[21:26] <diddledan> intrbiz: I believe we're moving to /srv/domain.example.com/ssl with the related website at .../htdocs
[21:26] <diddledan> but that's just my co
[21:27] <diddledan> not an official word
[21:27] <intrbiz> diddledan: ok
[21:28] <intrbiz> diddledan: I personally do /etc/apache2/ssl.key and /etc/apache2/ssl.crt
[21:28] <diddledan> the problem with that is you're then limited to one cert
[21:28] <diddledan> so you can't vhost
[21:28] <intrbiz> they are folders containing domain.name.crt or domain.name.key
[21:29] <diddledan> aah
[21:29] <diddledan> I figured files
[21:29] <intrbiz> sorry, I should have been clearer
[21:29] <diddledan> I shouldn't have assumed - "assumption is the mother of all flip-ups"
[21:31] <intrbiz> diddledan: it sure is, but I'm fairly sure life without assumptions is impossible
[21:31] <intrbiz> or at least rather impractical
[21:31] <diddledan> and now I need to find somewhere that has that movie
[21:31] <diddledan> :-p
[21:32] <diddledan> (Under Siege 2: Dark Territory)
[21:32] <diddledan> and yes that is from memory
[21:32] <diddledan> :-p
[21:33] <intrbiz> diddledan: I have a copy here
[21:34] <diddledan> I think I've got a copy on DVD but that's sooo last millenium
[21:34] <intrbiz> shamefully along with a few other Seagal films
[21:55] <bigcalm> intrbiz: /etc/ssl/private for the key & csr /etc/ssl/certs for the cert
[21:55] <bigcalm> I think that might be a debian thing as well
[21:56]  * bigcalm backs up stuff before reinstalling
[21:56] <bigcalm> Going to be a fun evening
[21:56] <intrbiz> bigcalm: yeh, but I really dislike sticking server cers in with a bunch of other certs
[21:56] <intrbiz> certs*
[21:56] <bigcalm> intrbiz: don't put them in the certs dir then, make your own
[21:57] <intrbiz> :)
[21:57] <bigcalm> The private dir will only have snake oil in it
[21:57] <intrbiz> yeh
[22:18] <directhex> intrbiz, i use /etc/ssl/certs/hostname.pem and /etc/ssl/private/hostname.key
[22:34] <diddledan> yeah we like to keep the cert/key on the same filesystem as the website so that in the cloud we can just spin up a new ubuntu machine with our filesystem attached and have everything magically work