bluesabreI think I'm going to extend the patches to support both00:08
bluesabrealso, good evening everyone00:09
bluesabrewhether I get to those packages tonight remains to be seen00:10
=== TheMaster is now known as Unit193
bluesabrebrainwash: not that you're around, but a fixed xfce4-settings has been pushed to utopic (will land when freeze is lifted tomorrow).  I'll be working on trusty uploads this weekend.00:57
bluesabreI'll also expand the gdmflexiserver patches to first try gdmflexiserver, then dm-tool upon failure00:59
Unit193Heh, alright.  xscreensaver looked like it checked what was running/installed, but anywho I'll leave how to do it up to you, if you choose. :P01:01
bluesabreI'll figure it out... none of these things are as smart as they seem :)01:01
bluesabrethough, I might ping you this weekend Unit193, if you're around ;)01:01
bluesabreanyway, gotta run again, bbl01:02
Unit193Hah, you're the programmer. :P01:02
skellatIn light of the pinkness bug, I got out there preemptively on AskUbuntu and submitted a Question + Answer combo: http://askubuntu.com/questions/528116/why-did-my-highlights-turn-pink-in-xubuntu-14-1002:51
ali1234can we make the installer load this in a hidden iframe also? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky3Ordfqn8803:18
skellatali1234, That is pure evil03:47
ali1234i'm still watching it03:47
Unit1935 minutes.04:18
Noskcajali1234, That's worse than the 10 hour nyan cat and the 10 hour darude sandstorm06:22
elfyhi Noskcaj 06:28
Noskcajhey elfy 06:30
ochosimorning folks08:01
ochosijust subscribed ubiquity to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/136581509:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1365815 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Black background on Try or Install screen" [Critical,Confirmed]09:09
ochosiactually xubuntu-default-settings is not the right package anyway, the wallpaper-symlink for ubiquity is generated in xubuntu-artwork09:09
ochosibut i checked, we haven't changed anything there, so the location that ubiquity tries to access here should still be fine09:10
ochosialso briefly scanned the changelog of ubiquity, but nothing caught my eye09:10
ochosiso i hope xnox (or someone else) can shed some light on this09:10
elfythat one is a pain - it goes, it comes back, it goes ... 09:13
knomei think i just hit the "black screen after suspend" bug the first time09:18
knomelet me try if i can reproduce09:18
knomelooks like TTY7 is black09:21
knomeTTY1 works09:21
knomeochosi, ^09:21
ochosiknome: you're on 14.04.1 and have activated the fix?09:27
knomehow do i specifically activate it?09:35
knomei've been on 14.04.1 for some time, and this is the first time i see this bug09:35
knomeso i would have imagined i don't have it / have the fix activated, but...09:35
ochosijust read our blog, man09:36
knomebah, overrated!09:36
* knome boots09:37
* ochosi boots knome 09:37
ochosiyou know, the problem with this bug is that it's often just a problem with suspend09:39
ochosias soon as you can reproduce it, you can try 1) the fix linked above and 2) to disable l-l to be sure09:40
ochosi(disabling light-locker in the sense of: disabling lock on suspend)09:40
knomeochosi, yeah, TTY7 is still blank09:42
knomebut please understand, locking *with light-locker* has worked before09:43
ochosiyou mean lock-on-suspend with light-locker, i presume09:43
knomethat :P09:43
knomei'll try disabling light-locker next09:43
knomejust a sec...09:43
knomeso with light-locker disabled, what was the way to go to suspend again?09:44
ochosijust disable lock on suspend, not light-locker itself09:45
ochosibut yeah, you can suspend any way you want (close the lid, use the logout menu)09:45
knomesorry for being a bit green, it's a long time since i thought about this the last time09:45
ochosiactually there could be a difference between closing the lid and using the logout menu, iirc09:45
ochosionly the lid created problems09:45
knomeyes, i'll look into that too next09:46
knomeyeah, that fixes the issue09:46
knomeand yeah, even with lock on suspend enabled, suspending from the menu works09:48
knomenow that i've pinpointed it, how can i help debug this further?09:48
ochosiit's a weird bug to begin with09:48
ochosiare you using all default packages of 14.04?09:49
ochosior e.g. newer versions of xfpm or ll09:49
knomenope, all default09:49
knomenow that you mention it09:49
knomei just enabled the xubuntu-dev staging PPA09:49
* knome facepalms09:49
knomeso is it a regression?09:50
ochosinot really, but the variable names for handling the lock on suspend case in xfpm has changed09:50
ochosiso older versions of lls won't work with that nicely09:50
knomeso why isn't there a new version of l-l-s in the staging PPA?09:50
ochosii wasn't all too happy with that change, since it breaks backward compatibility, but yeah, better ask bluesabre ;)09:51
knomebluesabre, PING09:51
ochosioh let the guy get some sleep :)09:51
knometbe, bluesabre was the one suggesting me to install the PPA for the new mousepad :P09:51
knomeis there something i can manually do to make this work?09:51
ochosiwell you don't have to upgrade *all* packages from that PPA09:52
knomeno, but it's easiest that way09:52
ochosiyou can try to downgrade to xfpm 1.2 from 14.0409:52
ochosiand then re-apply the fix as mentioned on the blog09:52
ochosior you can try to set the right variable for xfpm09:52
ochosisry, gotta get back to work now09:52
knomeochosi, pinned to the version in the archive, redid the fix mentioned, but suspending with lock on suspend when closing lid is still broken10:16
* bluesabre is not a fan of this bug10:38
bluesabreknome: want to be an experiment?10:39
knomewell i obviously can/want do stuff10:40
bluesabrecan you re-update to the PPA version?10:41
knomesure, a bit later10:42
knomei need to do something for a client first10:43
bluesabrethe logic was flipped, and the fix worked for some, not for others...10:43
bluesabreand the bug does not affect me, so I am coding in the dark...10:43
bluesabretry each of the following, followed by a log out, and then back in. I want to know which setting actually fixes the issue10:44
bluesabrexfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -s false10:44
bluesabrexfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -s true10:44
bluesabre(do this after enabling light-locker and lock-on-suspend from l-l-s)10:45
bluesabrebut yeah, just some time today :)10:45
knomei'll do it in ~15mins10:46
bluesabreI might have to release an updated light-locker-settings, and this would be really good to know before 14.10 is released :)10:47
knomei mean, from the laptop ->11:10
bluesabreknome: do we have screenshots of simple-scan anywhere?11:13
knomebluesabre, no, how?11:13
bluesabreI figured out how to add minimize/maximize to headerbars11:13
bluesabreslight ui change... but much better for consistency11:14
knomeumm, does xfce4-power-manager need other packages to be able to update?11:14
bluesabre-data, -plugins11:14
knomepinning it back to 500 doesn't do anything11:14
knomewhat :D11:16
knomeonly -plugins would be upgraded11:16
knomethis is silly...11:16
knomeright, wrong syntax from me11:17
knomeok, let's see...11:17
knomeok, first thing done11:18
knomewill try to suspend now11:18
knomefirst thing failing11:20
bluesabrel-l-s, things enabled, property set, and logged out after setting?11:20
knomehave done second thing now and will try to suspend11:21
bluesabrelogged out first?11:21
knomethe second option works11:21
bluesabreand troublesome11:21
knomei remember editing some file at some point11:22
knomerelated to power management11:22
bluesabreochosi ^ so, allowing logind to handle the lid switch works... is that correct?11:22
knomewhere's the related logind conf files?11:22
bluesabre/etc/systemd/logind.conf ?11:23
knomeit has #HandleSuspendkey=suspend11:23
bluesabreadding this fix to xfpm made overrides in that file not matter anymore11:24
bluesabreor, that was the plan11:24
knomewell apparently, the problem in my case is when logind *doesn't* handle suspending11:24
bluesabreall this is confusing, and I do not know what should and should not work at this point...11:25
knomeas always, if there is anything i can do to help fixing it, i'm willing :)11:25
bluesabrewell, you figured out the setting that works for you11:25
knomenot just because i want my laptop's suspend to work...11:25
bluesabreso that might be a start11:25
knomei should clean my monitor11:26
bluesabreknome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/137388711:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1373887 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Add minimize and maximize to GtkHeaderbars" [Undecided,New]11:35
ochosibluesabre: yes, logind has to handle the lid switch11:35
bluesabregood to know11:35
bluesabrenew l-l-s coming today ;)11:36
ochosibut only if lock-on-suspend is enabled ;)11:36
ochosibut yeah, we've had that before11:36
bluesabrewhere it was flipped, it was confusing11:36
ochosiyeah, i never felt flipping was a really good idea11:36
bluesabrewell, it was a lot of reverse-logic before11:36
ochosimade a confusing issue even more confusing ("are you using the version before or after the flipping..?")11:36
bluesabrethe setting actually makes sense now11:37
ochosiright, maybe we should just write things down somewhere11:37
bluesabrelogind-handle-lid-switch now means "logind handle lid switch"11:37
bluesabreknome: thanks for testing :)11:38
knomei understand that it's always so much easier to do that with somebody who you know, and who understands something about xubuntu11:38
knomewhich is why i'm more than willing to help11:38
ochosido we need another +1 for the UIFe?11:39
bluesabreochosi: if you want11:39
bluesabreI just subscribed ubuntu-release, so it will make it pop up in their queue11:39
knomeochosi, what about the flash of content before unlocking?11:40
bluesabreI'll ping them tonight after the freeze is lifted11:40
knomei proposed ochosi a hacky solution, which should work, however..11:40
ochosiknome: nothing we can do about that. same thing happens with xscreensaver potentially. it's related to locking after waking up11:40
knomesure, but what about my idea about the timeout?11:40
ochosiwhat if for some reason that process of suspending gets "stuck"?11:41
ochosithen you end up with a black screen11:41
ochosithere are just too many pitfalls with this approach imo11:41
knomethe timeout should take care of that as well11:41
knomebecause when it times out, it unblanks the screen11:41
ochosiiirc your idea was to black out the screen when locking (with a black top-level window), then do suspend and on wakeup lock the screen11:42
bluesabregotta run, bbl11:42
knomeyes, something like that11:42
ochosittyl bluesabre, hf!11:42
knometa bluesabre 11:43
knomeand hf11:43
ochosithe only real solution is to find out why suspending after the vt switch doesn't work properly11:43
knomei'm not disagreeing with that :)11:44
knomebut how far from that are we really?11:44
ochosiand it's probably not that much more work than trying to implement your hack :)11:44
knomeand is it possibly a hardware issue?11:44
knomewell then get hacking on your solution then! :P11:44
ochosithat depends, if i or someone else would actually have time to spend on it, then maybe we wouldn't be too far away11:44
ochosibut i don't have time atm11:45
knomei understand there is no exact timeframe to give11:45
knomebut i was thinking about an estimation11:45
knomeis this affecting ubuntu as well?11:45
ochosiubuntu doesn't switch vt when locking11:45
knomeok, so why do we do that?11:45
ochosigah, sorry, i really don't have time for this right now11:45
ochosi-> back to work11:45
knomethat's okay :P11:46
brainwashthat's a funny question :)11:46
knomebrainwash, i don't think it's funny. what in it do you think is funny?11:46
brainwashlight-locker requires lightdm + greeter to lock the screen11:46
brainwashwhich starts in a new vt11:47
brainwashlight-locker 2.0 will hopefully get rid of the vt switching, but we don't know when it will be ready :(11:48
brainwashdo gtk3 apps hide the normal title bar now? if no, what is the benefit of adding minimize/maximize to gtkheaderbars?11:52
brainwashmaybe I'm not up-to-date11:55
brainwashbug 1301873 is still open11:56
ubottubug 1301873 in Xfwm4 "Add support for title-less windows" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130187311:56
knomebbl. ->12:14
bluesabrebrainwash: if you're running utopic, open simple-scan12:53
bluesabreCSDs work correctly in xfce now12:53
bluesabregotta run12:53
brainwashhow does it work correctly? who fixed that?12:54
bluesabreits part of gtk 3.10 or 3.1212:55
bluesabrefixed in the toolkit12:55
brainwashgood news I guess12:55
elfyochosi: http://pad.ubuntu.com/b2notes17:05
ochosielfy: thanks, fixed some small typos, but the rest looks good! nice work17:11
* bluesabre added a space17:13
* knome removed bluesabre's space17:15
* bluesabre adds more spaces, html doesn't care17:16
knomeyou make me sad17:16
* bluesabre fixes mistake in judgment17:17
knomeboo for pad adding spaces :(17:21
bluesabrefor vbox, its host+F1 (usually right-ctrl + F1)17:24
elfythanks bluesabre - saved me time :p17:24
knomebluesabre, righty17:25
elfynot sure about other vm's though - hence not putting anything there 17:25
* knome shrugs :)17:26
knomemoved striked stuff at the bottom17:28
elfylooks better like that :p17:33
elfyochosi: so what we going to do about marking these images18:12
elfyothers are marking ready regardless18:13
bluesabrewe should probably just mark ready... everyone else has the same issue, and I think the decision is to release now and fix lightdm after18:16
elfywas my thinking 18:17
bluesabregreat minds...18:18
elfyI've asked the question, though <jibel> there is progress on the 'boot to black screen' issue but it wont be fixed for beta2 in another channel confirmed that thinking18:18
elfyother than things we can't fix I'm happy18:19
elfya bit happier with the testing turnout 18:19
elfycan't say I'm impressed though18:20
bluesabreits an improvement, but we can do better18:24
elfy<infinity> elfy: Yeah, we're going to ignore that issue and fix it ASAP after the beta.18:29
elfyI'll mark them now18:29
elfydraft blog post done from the pad18:31
knomeelfy, ta :)18:34
knomeelfy, please mention that in the pad18:34
elfymention what in the pad? that I'm not impressed 18:34
elfydone :)18:35
knometara ;)18:36
Unit193bluesabre: Updates got me a scroll up button, next to minimize.18:42
bluesabreUnit193..? screenshot18:43
elfywe got a screenshot button too :(18:43
elfyoh dear18:43
Unit193bluesabre: https://unit193.net/buttons.png18:45
elfyI'm not seeing that - but I've customised that stuff 18:46
bluesabrewhich wm theme?18:46
bluesabrenot seeing that even in the guest session...18:54
Unit193Well that's weird, nothing changed here...  Well it's not important.18:55
bluesabredoes it affect your guest session or a new user? just making sure I didn't break anything18:55
Unit193Bah, have to restart lightdm...18:57
Unit193Okay, so no idea how that hit then..19:01
bluesabreochosi put an easter egg in xfwm19:02
Unit193Guess so.19:02
Unit193Also, guest session kind of stinks. :P19:03
elfyI wonder if we should put a disclaimer of some sort on the b2 post - "We don't like marking this as ready for use given the VM bug"20:08
knomewell, i don't know20:08
knometbh, the virtual installations are not *so* important20:08
knomethey don't blow up anybody's computer20:08
knomeand it's relatively easy to rerun an installation with another image20:08
elfywhole thing is meh20:08
knomeyes, it is, but i don't think it is too critical to not call them beta-stage-ready20:09
elfyoh ...20:24
elfywhy would I ever think that I could work with the wiki without pulling my hair out20:24
knomeelfy, no hair left?20:26
Unit193Chest hair...20:26
elfyknome: indeed20:26
elfyanyway - beta2 notes done - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/Beta2/Xubuntu20:26
elfyincludes is all up the swanee though20:29
knomewant me to look at it?20:29
elfyhang on20:29
elfyfixed it 20:30
elfythough it's a bit useless :D20:30
knomeas alwyas20:30
knomealways too20:30
elfyeven more so this time - it's empty :p20:30
elfychanged our link on the main release notes20:33
elfywhat's the hmph for knome - the emptiness or something else20:34
knomei continued the thing in the right channel, -offtopic :)20:35
* bluesabre gets to packaging xfpm 1.4.121:06
elfywell I'm off now21:09
bluesabreseeya elfy, have a good night21:09
slickymasternighty elfy 21:09
elfyI'll do my best bluesabre :)21:09
elfywiki and blog are both done bluesabre just in case anyone in -release needs anything21:10
bluesabreok, good to know21:10
elfy-release only have ochosi and me as contacts 21:10
bluesabreUnit193: poke21:16
Noskcajbluesabre, Are you going to try and merge from debian for the new xfpm? Corsac has packaged it21:17
bluesabreNoskcaj: not sure if its worth it.  We have several differences with debian and nothing extra has diverged since 1.4.021:18
Noskcaji'll try and get all the deltas smaller next cycle anyway21:18
bluesabrethanks for the tip though :)21:18
=== LazyUserBNC is now known as LazyUser69
bluesabreUnit193: nvm, figured out it21:21
bluesabre /unping21:21
Unit193bluesabre: Too bad, pooong. :D21:26
bluesabreknome: new light-locker-settings pushed to utopic, and staging ppa for trusty22:32
knomehow does that help?22:33
knomei mean... what's the change too22:33
bluesabrewhen you say lock, it sets the right setting for xfpm to not black screen22:33
knomebut isn't that something you switched?22:34
knomeand the other thing doesn't work for others?22:34
bluesabrexfpm < 1.3.2 uses old light-locker-settings, xfpm > 1.4.0 uses the new22:34
bluesabrejust poked you because you had an issue with that earlier :)22:35

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