[00:08] <bluesabre> I think I'm going to extend the patches to support both
[00:09] <bluesabre> also, good evening everyone
[00:10] <bluesabre> whether I get to those packages tonight remains to be seen
[00:57] <bluesabre> brainwash: not that you're around, but a fixed xfce4-settings has been pushed to utopic (will land when freeze is lifted tomorrow).  I'll be working on trusty uploads this weekend.
[00:59] <bluesabre> I'll also expand the gdmflexiserver patches to first try gdmflexiserver, then dm-tool upon failure
[01:01] <Unit193> Heh, alright.  xscreensaver looked like it checked what was running/installed, but anywho I'll leave how to do it up to you, if you choose. :P
[01:01] <bluesabre> I'll figure it out... none of these things are as smart as they seem :)
[01:01] <bluesabre> though, I might ping you this weekend Unit193, if you're around ;)
[01:02] <bluesabre> anyway, gotta run again, bbl
[01:02] <Unit193> Hah, you're the programmer. :P
[01:02] <Unit193> Tschau.
[02:51] <skellat> In light of the pinkness bug, I got out there preemptively on AskUbuntu and submitted a Question + Answer combo: http://askubuntu.com/questions/528116/why-did-my-highlights-turn-pink-in-xubuntu-14-10
[03:14] <ali1234> nice
[03:18] <ali1234> can we make the installer load this in a hidden iframe also? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky3Ordfqn88
[03:47] <skellat> ali1234, That is pure evil
[03:47] <ali1234> i'm still watching it
[04:18] <Unit193> 5 minutes.
[06:22] <Noskcaj> ali1234, That's worse than the 10 hour nyan cat and the 10 hour darude sandstorm
[06:28] <elfy> hi Noskcaj 
[06:30] <Noskcaj> hey elfy 
[08:01] <ochosi> morning folks
[09:09] <ochosi> just subscribed ubiquity to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1365815
[09:09] <ochosi> actually xubuntu-default-settings is not the right package anyway, the wallpaper-symlink for ubiquity is generated in xubuntu-artwork
[09:10] <ochosi> but i checked, we haven't changed anything there, so the location that ubiquity tries to access here should still be fine
[09:10] <ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L369
[09:10] <ochosi> also briefly scanned the changelog of ubiquity, but nothing caught my eye
[09:10] <ochosi> so i hope xnox (or someone else) can shed some light on this
[09:13] <elfy> that one is a pain - it goes, it comes back, it goes ... 
[09:18] <knome> hmmh
[09:18] <knome> i think i just hit the "black screen after suspend" bug the first time
[09:18] <knome> let me try if i can reproduce
[09:21] <knome> looks like TTY7 is black
[09:21] <knome> TTY1 works
[09:21] <knome> ochosi, ^
[09:27] <ochosi> knome: you're on 14.04.1 and have activated the fix?
[09:35] <knome> how do i specifically activate it?
[09:35] <knome> i've been on 14.04.1 for some time, and this is the first time i see this bug
[09:35] <knome> so i would have imagined i don't have it / have the fix activated, but...
[09:36] <ochosi> just read our blog, man
[09:36] <ochosi> http://xubuntu.org/news/laptop-users-fix-available-for-the-black-screen-on-unlock-bug/
[09:36] <ochosi> ;)
[09:36] <knome> bah, overrated!
[09:37]  * knome boots
[09:37]  * ochosi boots knome 
[09:39] <ochosi> you know, the problem with this bug is that it's often just a problem with suspend
[09:40] <ochosi> as soon as you can reproduce it, you can try 1) the fix linked above and 2) to disable l-l to be sure
[09:40] <ochosi> (disabling light-locker in the sense of: disabling lock on suspend)
[09:42] <knome> ochosi, yeah, TTY7 is still blank
[09:43] <knome> but please understand, locking *with light-locker* has worked before
[09:43] <ochosi> you mean lock-on-suspend with light-locker, i presume
[09:43] <knome> yes
[09:43] <knome> that :P
[09:43] <knome> i'll try disabling light-locker next
[09:43] <knome> just a sec...
[09:44] <knome> so with light-locker disabled, what was the way to go to suspend again?
[09:45] <ochosi> just disable lock on suspend, not light-locker itself
[09:45] <knome> aha
[09:45] <ochosi> but yeah, you can suspend any way you want (close the lid, use the logout menu)
[09:45] <knome> sorry for being a bit green, it's a long time since i thought about this the last time
[09:45] <ochosi> np
[09:45] <ochosi> actually there could be a difference between closing the lid and using the logout menu, iirc
[09:45] <ochosi> only the lid created problems
[09:46] <knome> yes, i'll look into that too next
[09:46] <knome> yeah, that fixes the issue
[09:48] <knome> and yeah, even with lock on suspend enabled, suspending from the menu works
[09:48] <ochosi> yup
[09:48] <knome> now that i've pinpointed it, how can i help debug this further?
[09:48] <ochosi> it's a weird bug to begin with
[09:49] <ochosi> are you using all default packages of 14.04?
[09:49] <ochosi> or e.g. newer versions of xfpm or ll
[09:49] <knome> nope, all default
[09:49] <knome> actually...
[09:49] <knome> now that you mention it
[09:49] <knome> i just enabled the xubuntu-dev staging PPA
[09:49] <ochosi> huhu
[09:49]  * knome facepalms
[09:50] <knome> so is it a regression?
[09:50] <ochosi> not really, but the variable names for handling the lock on suspend case in xfpm has changed
[09:50] <knome> aha
[09:50] <ochosi> so older versions of lls won't work with that nicely
[09:50] <knome> aha
[09:50] <knome> so why isn't there a new version of l-l-s in the staging PPA?
[09:51] <ochosi> i wasn't all too happy with that change, since it breaks backward compatibility, but yeah, better ask bluesabre ;)
[09:51] <knome> bluesabre, PING
[09:51] <ochosi> oh let the guy get some sleep :)
[09:51] <knome> tbe, bluesabre was the one suggesting me to install the PPA for the new mousepad :P
[09:51] <knome> is there something i can manually do to make this work?
[09:52] <ochosi> well you don't have to upgrade *all* packages from that PPA
[09:52] <knome> no, but it's easiest that way
[09:52] <ochosi> you can try to downgrade to xfpm 1.2 from 14.04
[09:52] <ochosi> and then re-apply the fix as mentioned on the blog
[09:52] <ochosi> or you can try to set the right variable for xfpm
[09:52] <ochosi> sry, gotta get back to work now
[10:16] <knome> ochosi, pinned to the version in the archive, redid the fix mentioned, but suspending with lock on suspend when closing lid is still broken
[10:38] <bluesabre> :(
[10:38]  * bluesabre is not a fan of this bug
[10:38] <knome> nope
[10:39] <bluesabre> knome: want to be an experiment?
[10:40] <knome> well i obviously can/want do stuff
[10:41] <bluesabre> can you re-update to the PPA version?
[10:42] <knome> sure, a bit later
[10:43] <knome> i need to do something for a client first
[10:43] <bluesabre> the logic was flipped, and the fix worked for some, not for others...
[10:43] <bluesabre> and the bug does not affect me, so I am coding in the dark...
[10:44] <bluesabre> try each of the following, followed by a log out, and then back in. I want to know which setting actually fixes the issue
[10:44] <bluesabre> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -s false
[10:44] <bluesabre> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -s true
[10:45] <bluesabre> (do this after enabling light-locker and lock-on-suspend from l-l-s)
[10:45] <bluesabre> but yeah, just some time today :)
[10:46] <knome> i'll do it in ~15mins
[10:46] <bluesabre> awesome
[10:47] <bluesabre> I might have to release an updated light-locker-settings, and this would be really good to know before 14.10 is released :)
[11:10] <knome> brb
[11:10] <knome> i mean, from the laptop ->
[11:13] <bluesabre> knome: do we have screenshots of simple-scan anywhere?
[11:13] <knome> bluesabre, no, how?
[11:13] <knome> /why?
[11:13] <bluesabre> I figured out how to add minimize/maximize to headerbars
[11:13] <knome> aha
[11:14] <bluesabre> slight ui change... but much better for consistency
[11:14] <knome> umm, does xfce4-power-manager need other packages to be able to update?
[11:14] <bluesabre> -data, -plugins
[11:14] <knome> pinning it back to 500 doesn't do anything
[11:14] <knome> aha
[11:16] <knome> what :D
[11:16] <knome> only -plugins would be upgraded
[11:16] <knome> this is silly...
[11:17] <knome> right, wrong syntax from me
[11:17] <knome> ok, let's see...
[11:18] <knome> ok, first thing done
[11:18] <knome> will try to suspend now
[11:20] <knome> first thing failing
[11:20] <bluesabre> l-l-s, things enabled, property set, and logged out after setting?
[11:20] <knome> yes
[11:21] <bluesabre> k
[11:21] <knome> have done second thing now and will try to suspend
[11:21] <bluesabre> logged out first?
[11:21] <knome> yes
[11:21] <knome> the second option works
[11:21] <bluesabre> neat
[11:21] <bluesabre> and troublesome
[11:22] <knome> i remember editing some file at some point
[11:22] <knome> related to power management
[11:22] <bluesabre> ochosi ^ so, allowing logind to handle the lid switch works... is that correct?
[11:22] <knome> where's the related logind conf files?
[11:23] <bluesabre> /etc/systemd/logind.conf ?
[11:23] <knome> probably..
[11:23] <knome> it has #HandleSuspendkey=suspend
[11:24] <bluesabre> adding this fix to xfpm made overrides in that file not matter anymore
[11:24] <knome> aha
[11:24] <bluesabre> or, that was the plan
[11:24] <knome> well apparently, the problem in my case is when logind *doesn't* handle suspending
[11:25] <bluesabre> indeed
[11:25] <bluesabre> all this is confusing, and I do not know what should and should not work at this point...
[11:25] <knome> as always, if there is anything i can do to help fixing it, i'm willing :)
[11:25] <bluesabre> well, you figured out the setting that works for you
[11:25] <knome> not just because i want my laptop's suspend to work...
[11:25] <bluesabre> so that might be a start
[11:26] <bluesabre> :)
[11:26] <knome> i should clean my monitor
[11:35] <bluesabre> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1373887
[11:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: yes, logind has to handle the lid switch
[11:35] <bluesabre> ah
[11:35] <bluesabre> good to know
[11:36] <bluesabre> new l-l-s coming today ;)
[11:36] <ochosi> but only if lock-on-suspend is enabled ;)
[11:36] <bluesabre> right
[11:36] <ochosi> but yeah, we've had that before
[11:36] <bluesabre> where it was flipped, it was confusing
[11:36] <ochosi> yeah, i never felt flipping was a really good idea
[11:36] <bluesabre> well, it was a lot of reverse-logic before
[11:36] <ochosi> made a confusing issue even more confusing ("are you using the version before or after the flipping..?")
[11:37] <bluesabre> the setting actually makes sense now
[11:37] <ochosi> right, maybe we should just write things down somewhere
[11:37] <bluesabre> logind-handle-lid-switch now means "logind handle lid switch"
[11:37] <bluesabre> :D
[11:38] <bluesabre> knome: thanks for testing :)
[11:38] <knome> np
[11:38] <knome> i understand that it's always so much easier to do that with somebody who you know, and who understands something about xubuntu
[11:38] <knome> which is why i'm more than willing to help
[11:39] <ochosi> do we need another +1 for the UIFe?
[11:39] <bluesabre> ochosi: if you want
[11:39] <bluesabre> I just subscribed ubuntu-release, so it will make it pop up in their queue
[11:40] <knome> ochosi, what about the flash of content before unlocking?
[11:40] <ochosi> cool
[11:40] <bluesabre> I'll ping them tonight after the freeze is lifted
[11:40] <knome> i proposed ochosi a hacky solution, which should work, however..
[11:40] <ochosi> knome: nothing we can do about that. same thing happens with xscreensaver potentially. it's related to locking after waking up
[11:40] <knome> sure, but what about my idea about the timeout?
[11:41] <ochosi> what if for some reason that process of suspending gets "stuck"?
[11:41] <ochosi> then you end up with a black screen
[11:41] <ochosi> there are just too many pitfalls with this approach imo
[11:41] <knome> the timeout should take care of that as well
[11:41] <knome> because when it times out, it unblanks the screen
[11:42] <ochosi> iirc your idea was to black out the screen when locking (with a black top-level window), then do suspend and on wakeup lock the screen
[11:42] <bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
[11:42] <knome> yes, something like that
[11:42] <ochosi> ttyl bluesabre, hf!
[11:43] <knome> ta bluesabre 
[11:43] <knome> and hf
[11:43] <ochosi> the only real solution is to find out why suspending after the vt switch doesn't work properly
[11:44] <knome> i'm not disagreeing with that :)
[11:44] <knome> but how far from that are we really?
[11:44] <ochosi> and it's probably not that much more work than trying to implement your hack :)
[11:44] <knome> and is it possibly a hardware issue?
[11:44] <knome> well then get hacking on your solution then! :P
[11:44] <ochosi> that depends, if i or someone else would actually have time to spend on it, then maybe we wouldn't be too far away
[11:45] <ochosi> but i don't have time atm
[11:45] <knome> i understand there is no exact timeframe to give
[11:45] <knome> but i was thinking about an estimation
[11:45] <knome> is this affecting ubuntu as well?
[11:45] <ochosi> ubuntu doesn't switch vt when locking
[11:45] <knome> ok, so why do we do that?
[11:45] <ochosi> gah, sorry, i really don't have time for this right now
[11:45] <ochosi> -> back to work
[11:46] <knome> that's okay :P
[11:46] <brainwash> that's a funny question :)
[11:46] <knome> ttyl
[11:46] <knome> brainwash, i don't think it's funny. what in it do you think is funny?
[11:46] <brainwash> light-locker requires lightdm + greeter to lock the screen
[11:47] <brainwash> which starts in a new vt
[11:48] <brainwash> light-locker 2.0 will hopefully get rid of the vt switching, but we don't know when it will be ready :(
[11:52] <brainwash> do gtk3 apps hide the normal title bar now? if no, what is the benefit of adding minimize/maximize to gtkheaderbars?
[11:55] <brainwash> maybe I'm not up-to-date
[11:56] <brainwash> bug 1301873 is still open
[12:14] <knome> bbl. ->
[12:53] <bluesabre> brainwash: if you're running utopic, open simple-scan
[12:53] <bluesabre> CSDs work correctly in xfce now
[12:53] <bluesabre> gotta run
[12:54] <brainwash> how does it work correctly? who fixed that?
[12:55] <bluesabre> its part of gtk 3.10 or 3.12
[12:55] <bluesabre> fixed in the toolkit
[12:55] <brainwash> good news I guess
[17:05] <elfy> ochosi: http://pad.ubuntu.com/b2notes
[17:05] <elfy> bbl
[17:11] <ochosi> elfy: thanks, fixed some small typos, but the rest looks good! nice work
[17:13]  * bluesabre added a space
[17:15]  * knome removed bluesabre's space
[17:16]  * bluesabre adds more spaces, html doesn't care
[17:16] <knome> waat
[17:16] <knome> you make me sad
[17:17]  * bluesabre fixes mistake in judgment
[17:21] <knome> boo for pad adding spaces :(
[17:24] <bluesabre> for vbox, its host+F1 (usually right-ctrl + F1)
[17:24] <elfy> thanks bluesabre - saved me time :p
[17:25] <knome> bluesabre, righty
[17:25] <bluesabre> ;)
[17:25] <elfy> not sure about other vm's though - hence not putting anything there 
[17:26]  * knome shrugs :)
[17:28] <knome> moved striked stuff at the bottom
[17:33] <elfy> looks better like that :p
[18:12] <elfy> ochosi: so what we going to do about marking these images
[18:13] <elfy> others are marking ready regardless
[18:16] <bluesabre> we should probably just mark ready... everyone else has the same issue, and I think the decision is to release now and fix lightdm after
[18:17] <elfy> was my thinking 
[18:18] <bluesabre> great minds...
[18:18] <bluesabre> :)
[18:18] <elfy> I've asked the question, though <jibel> there is progress on the 'boot to black screen' issue but it wont be fixed for beta2 in another channel confirmed that thinking
[18:19] <elfy> other than things we can't fix I'm happy
[18:19] <elfy> a bit happier with the testing turnout 
[18:20] <elfy> can't say I'm impressed though
[18:24] <bluesabre> :)
[18:24] <bluesabre> its an improvement, but we can do better
 elfy: Yeah, we're going to ignore that issue and fix it ASAP after the beta.
[18:29] <elfy> I'll mark them now
[18:29] <elfy> done
[18:31] <elfy> draft blog post done from the pad
[18:34] <knome> elfy, ta :)
[18:34] <knome> elfy, please mention that in the pad
[18:34] <elfy> mention what in the pad? that I'm not impressed 
[18:35] <elfy> done :)
[18:36] <knome> tara ;)
[18:42] <Unit193> bluesabre: Updates got me a scroll up button, next to minimize.
[18:43] <bluesabre> Unit193..? screenshot
[18:43] <elfy> we got a screenshot button too :(
[18:43] <elfy> oh dear
[18:45] <Unit193> bluesabre: https://unit193.net/buttons.png
[18:45] <bluesabre> bizarre
[18:46] <elfy> I'm not seeing that - but I've customised that stuff 
[18:46] <bluesabre> which wm theme?
[18:46] <Unit193> Numix
[18:54] <bluesabre> not seeing that even in the guest session...
[18:55] <Unit193> Well that's weird, nothing changed here...  Well it's not important.
[18:55] <bluesabre> does it affect your guest session or a new user? just making sure I didn't break anything
[18:57] <Unit193> Bah, have to restart lightdm...
[19:01] <Unit193> Okay, so no idea how that hit then..
[19:02] <bluesabre> lol
[19:02] <bluesabre> ochosi put an easter egg in xfwm
[19:02] <Unit193> Guess so.
[19:03] <Unit193> Also, guest session kind of stinks. :P
[20:08] <elfy> I wonder if we should put a disclaimer of some sort on the b2 post - "We don't like marking this as ready for use given the VM bug"
[20:08] <knome> well, i don't know
[20:08] <knome> tbh, the virtual installations are not *so* important
[20:08] <knome> they don't blow up anybody's computer
[20:08] <knome> and it's relatively easy to rerun an installation with another image
[20:08] <elfy> whole thing is meh
[20:09] <knome> yes, it is, but i don't think it is too critical to not call them beta-stage-ready
[20:24] <elfy> oh ...
[20:24] <elfy> why would I ever think that I could work with the wiki without pulling my hair out
[20:25] <Unit193> Drunk?
[20:26] <knome> elfy, no hair left?
[20:26] <Unit193> Chest hair...
[20:26] <elfy> knome: indeed
[20:26] <elfy> anyway - beta2 notes done - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/Beta2/Xubuntu
[20:26] <knome> thanks!
[20:29] <elfy> includes is all up the swanee though
[20:29] <knome> want me to look at it?
[20:29] <elfy> hang on
[20:30] <knome> sure...
[20:30] <elfy> fixed it 
[20:30] <knome> :)
[20:30] <elfy> though it's a bit useless :D
[20:30] <knome> as alwyas
[20:30] <knome> always too
[20:30] <elfy> even more so this time - it's empty :p
[20:30] <knome> hah
[20:31] <knome> hmph
[20:33] <elfy> changed our link on the main release notes
[20:34] <elfy> what's the hmph for knome - the emptiness or something else
[20:35] <knome> i continued the thing in the right channel, -offtopic :)
[20:35] <elfy> aah
[21:06]  * bluesabre gets to packaging xfpm 1.4.1
[21:09] <elfy> well I'm off now
[21:09] <bluesabre> seeya elfy, have a good night
[21:09] <slickymaster> nighty elfy 
[21:09] <elfy> I'll do my best bluesabre :)
[21:10] <elfy> wiki and blog are both done bluesabre just in case anyone in -release needs anything
[21:10] <bluesabre> ok, good to know
[21:10] <elfy> -release only have ochosi and me as contacts 
[21:16] <bluesabre> Unit193: poke
[21:17] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, Are you going to try and merge from debian for the new xfpm? Corsac has packaged it
[21:18] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: not sure if its worth it.  We have several differences with debian and nothing extra has diverged since 1.4.0
[21:18] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:18] <Noskcaj> i'll try and get all the deltas smaller next cycle anyway
[21:18] <bluesabre> thanks for the tip though :)
[21:21] <bluesabre> Unit193: nvm, figured out it
[21:21] <bluesabre>  /unping
[21:26] <Unit193> bluesabre: Too bad, pooong. :D
[21:29] <bluesabre> :D
[21:31] <dreambit> o
[22:32] <bluesabre> knome: new light-locker-settings pushed to utopic, and staging ppa for trusty
[22:33] <knome> aha
[22:33] <knome> how does that help?
[22:33] <knome> i mean... what's the change too
[22:33] <bluesabre> when you say lock, it sets the right setting for xfpm to not black screen
[22:34] <knome> aha
[22:34] <knome> but isn't that something you switched?
[22:34] <knome> and the other thing doesn't work for others?
[22:34] <Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/185784036/light-locker-settings_1.4.1-0ubuntu1_1.4.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[22:34] <bluesabre> xfpm < 1.3.2 uses old light-locker-settings, xfpm > 1.4.0 uses the new
[22:34] <knome> okay
[22:35] <bluesabre> just poked you because you had an issue with that earlier :)
[22:35] <knome> yep