[02:39] <Roguehorse> :-)
[02:45] <nhaines> Roguehorse: heya.  :)
[02:45]  * nhaines is enjoying some miso soup and a cold salad.
[02:46] <nhaines> At least I don't have to worry about my sushi getting cold while I eat the appetizer.
[02:48] <ianorlin> wow my internet got really slow
[02:48] <ianorlin> good tihng irc still works
[02:51] <Roguehorse> I'm cruzing through the LinkedIN forums
[02:51]  * ianorlin doesn't like linkedin
[02:56] <Roguehorse> I don't think it's too bad - better than FB
[02:56] <Roguehorse> but I do prefer IRC or mailing lists
[02:57] <Roguehorse> hey, so explain to me bash or dash?
[02:58] <Roguehorse> I got the bash update last night that fixed the bug but someone said Ubuntu and derivs didn't need to worry since default is dash and not bash
[02:58] <nhaines> Funny, someone on LinkedIn just asked me about that, and I replied.  ;)
[02:59] <Roguehorse> LOL! brb
[02:59] <nhaines> Anyway, whoever said that is wrong.
[03:02]  * ianorlin prefers irc to both
[03:03] <Roguehorse> I wondered because all the info pages online say bash is the default but then I run ls and get the linking to dash so I got really confused
[03:03] <nhaines> The default is bash, but /bin/sh is only the "default" shell for legacy scripts.
[03:04] <nhaines> Well, anything that doesn't *need* bash specifically, anyway.
[03:05] <Roguehorse> so everything goes through bash unless it's an old script that points to /bin/sh?
[03:06] <nhaines> Yup.  Although a lot of startup scripts and other things use /bin/sh.
[03:06] <nhaines> Anything you're doing interactively is through bash unless you did something to change it, though.  ;)
[03:11] <Roguehorse> Got it. I was reading all these people bickering on other lists about the specifics between dash, bash, cgi and web-facing vulnerability
[03:12] <nhaines> Yeah, any web script using /bin/sh is set.
[03:12] <Roguehorse> I thnk they should cut they guy who found ita check for finding a bug that been around for 2-1/2 decades ;-)
[03:12] <nhaines> Or, anyone who applied yesterday's and todays updates is also all set.
[03:12] <nhaines> Heh, well, it's happened before.  :)
[03:13] <Roguehorse> I try to pass examples along like this to people who are just learning how to write programs and get frustrated with having bugs in their first 1 or 2 programs
[03:14] <Roguehorse> it's normal and bugs get found all the time, even from the best programmers decades later
[03:15] <nhaines> "LOL guys, remember that time every Linux distro ever was vulnerable for 25 years?"
[03:15] <nhaines> Well, the key lesson is that it was found and fixed immediately, pretty much everywhere, because bash is Free Software.
[03:15] <Roguehorse> ;-P
[03:15] <Roguehorse> and fixed FAST I must say, it was pretty amazing I think
[03:16] <nhaines> Well, they don't make the announcements until after the fix is ready.
[03:16] <nhaines> But no hoping a software vendor might care enough to fix it, no waiting for Patch Tuesday.  Everyone collaborates and coordinates a fix across hundreds of thousands of machines.
[03:17] <Roguehorse> oooh :-o
[03:17] <nhaines> But yeah, Red Hat, Novell, Canonical, IBM, Microsoft, they all coordinate responses to these security things.
[03:18] <Roguehorse> Yeah, but no ones going to pay attention to that - they're just going to remember the 26 year vulnerability
[03:18] <nhaines> Those aren't the people who matter.  :)
[03:19] <Roguehorse> I like the way you think :-)
[03:19] <Roguehorse> I had a VP tell me I should be learning Python instead of Perl - sort of
[03:20] <nhaines> I mean, the OpenSSH thing three years back was pretty crazy.  But that got fixed very quick.
[03:20] <nhaines> Roguehorse: he's right.
[03:20] <Roguehorse> shit
[03:21] <Roguehorse> OMG! Heartbleed has caused a whirlwind of changes globally
[03:21] <nhaines> Python is like executable pseudocode.  It's amazing.  http://xkcd.com/353/
[03:21] <darthrobot> Title: [xkcd: Python]
[03:21] <Roguehorse> I've fiddled with it (and Ruby too)
[03:21] <ianorlin> I like that python has ** for exponentiation
[03:22] <nhaines> from __future__ import braces
[03:26] <Roguehorse> nhaines: have you done any Perl?
[03:27] <nhaines> Well I did sneeze while typing once.  It looked very much like perl.
[03:29] <Roguehorse> https://xkcd.com/208/
[03:29] <darthrobot> Title: [xkcd: Regular Expressions]
[03:30] <Roguehorse> LOL!
[03:30] <ianorlin> grep ^<\
[03:31] <ianorlin> yay new commit to dependsdiff
[03:31] <nhaines> "Some people, when confronted with a problem, think 'I know, I'll use regular expressions.' Now they have two problems." --Jamie Zawinski
[03:32] <Roguehorse> Ah! https://xkcd.com/1171/
[03:32] <darthrobot> Title: [xkcd: Perl Problems]
[03:33] <nhaines> LOL
[03:33] <Roguehorse> I'll admit it can get pretty weird
[03:33] <Roguehorse> but I'd rather write Perl than Java
[03:34] <Roguehorse> You "really" think Python is more marketable these days?
[03:34] <ianorlin> If everyone has an integer number of problems n and then using regular expressions causes them to have n+1 one problems and always use regular expressions any number greater of n problems would be ture if using regular expressions caused n+1 problems
[03:35] <nhaines> I think python is extremely powerful and expressive and lets you get things done that work the first or second time.
[03:36] <Roguehorse> Hmm
[03:37] <nhaines> Also when I emailed Guido van Rossum and thanked him for making programming fun again, he emailed me back with a short note 20 minutes later which was amazeballs.
[03:38] <Roguehorse> You're BS'ing
[03:38] <nhaines> Nope.  I was pretty pleased.
[03:50] <Roguehorse> That's cool ;-)
[03:51] <Roguehorse> It's interesting how a person can tell what a predominant programming language is by the number of books on the subject
[03:53] <nhaines> Ooh, if I had known about this when I worked at Western Digital I would have printed it and placed it on all of the level 2 techs' desks:  http://www.jwz.org/doc/backups.html
[03:53] <darthrobot> Title: [Backups]
[03:53] <Roguehorse> freakin' Google Apps in Python http://it-ebooks.info/book/150/
[03:53] <darthrobot> Title: [Using Google App Engine - Free Download eBook - pdf]
[03:58] <Roguehorse> :-D that link was good! I have to save that.
[04:03] <Roguehorse> To be honest I've never understood why someone would RAID a desktop and not have some sort of backup/archive
[04:20] <nhaines> Roguehorse: because people thing RAID is a backup.
[04:23] <Roguehorse> and this whole time I just thought I wasn't "getting" it ;-)
[04:24] <nhaines> I had the conversation over and over and over again on the phones with customers.  :)
[04:49] <Roguehorse> and I bet they all told you that you don't know what you're talking about, right?
[04:51] <Roguehorse> because if a person runs a couple of Raptors on RAID then that *is* their backup - right?
[04:53] <Roguehorse> Yay! \o/ I have Don Marti as a connection on LinkedIN  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Marti
[04:53] <darthrobot> Title: [Don Marti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]
[23:24] <Roguehorse> =)