| bluesabre | knome: Should this bug forever hang around as "Confirmed"? | 11:05 |
|---|---|---|
| bluesabre | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1314153 | 11:05 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1314153 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "XUbuntu reinstalls all default packages on release update" [Low,Confirmed] | 11:05 |
| brainwash | it's not even an actual bug, or? | 11:06 |
| knome | bluesabre, it shouldn't, we should fix it | 11:10 |
| bluesabre | not sure I understand the problem... this is how all ubuntu release upgrades work | 11:10 |
| bluesabre | or am I mistaken? | 11:11 |
| knome | ok, so: | 11:11 |
| knome | 1) user installs xubuntu | 11:11 |
| knome | 2) user purges abiword, which in turn removes xubuntu-desktop | 11:12 |
| knome | 3) user upgrades, abiword is installed | 11:12 |
| knome | that *is* a bug | 11:12 |
| knome | iirc abiword and gnumeric were the things that this concerned | 11:12 |
| knome | there is no way to keep the xubuntu default settings packge (and get all the nice branding) but not install abiword on every upgrade | 11:13 |
| bluesabre | xubuntu-default-settings doesn't depend on xubuntu-desktop or abiword | 11:14 |
| knome | i can set up a testing environment at some point | 11:14 |
| knome | all you have to do to test this is install, remove abiword, and upgrade | 11:15 |
| knome | actually, since i seem to have trusty images, let me try this | 11:16 |
| ali1234 | that's always been a bug | 11:16 |
| brainwash | xubuntu-desktop only recommends abiword, so I guess that the upgrade process just reinstalls all the recommended packages | 11:17 |
| knome | bluesabre, but the user doesn't have xubuntu-desktop if they removed abiword. | 11:17 |
| knome | brainwash, ^ | 11:17 |
| ali1234 | it's the reason why you can install ubuntu -> apt-get xubuntu-desktop -> do-release-upgrade, and then sudden your install has turned into xubuntu | 11:17 |
| knome | but this is not about having xubuntu-desktop | 11:18 |
| bluesabre | its not about xubuntu-default-settings either, this is a bug in ubuntu-release-upgrader | 11:18 |
| knome | so how does ubuntu-release-upgrader figure out that it wants to install me xubuntu-dekstop stuff? | 11:18 |
| bluesabre | dunno, looking into it now | 11:19 |
| knome | ta | 11:19 |
| knome | if you need testing, tell me | 11:19 |
| knome | i'll boot a trusty vm up soon to try this as well | 11:19 |
| knome | and do an upgrade test while i'm on it | 11:19 |
| knome | it's just that i need to zsync half of the trusty image :P | 11:19 |
| bluesabre | :) | 11:25 |
| bluesabre | also, "Acid pink" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1374533 | 11:25 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1373280 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1374533 Pink background on selected items" [Undecided,Invalid] | 11:25 |
| bluesabre | :D | 11:25 |
| knome | yess | 11:25 |
| elfy | hippies | 11:26 |
| knome | ;) | 11:26 |
| elfy | :) | 11:26 |
| knome | elfy, soon doing an upgrade test with amd64, woohoo ;) | 11:26 |
| elfy | I saw | 11:26 |
| knome | only a tad late. ;) | 11:26 |
| elfy | don't worry too much - I've decided to care as much about testing as everyone else | 11:27 |
| knome | that's probably a good attitude for this cycle | 11:27 |
| elfy | mmm | 11:27 |
| knome | hmm | 11:27 |
| bluesabre | knome: for the upgrade bug, I see that it was originally set for ubuntu-release-upgrader, but you changed it to xubuntu-default-settings? | 11:27 |
| elfy | shame that much of team had the same attitude last cycle | 11:27 |
| knome | did trusty have the black bg bug previously too? | 11:28 |
| knome | elfy, that is | 11:28 |
| elfy | knome: at one point yes - xnox was in here talking about it iirc | 11:28 |
| knome | bluesabre, apparently so ;) | 11:28 |
| knome | ok, since i have it with the daily | 11:28 |
| elfy | yea | 11:28 |
| elfy | there is a bug report for it knome | 11:29 |
| knome | i know | 11:29 |
| knome | just digging it up | 11:29 |
| brainwash | I remember bugging xnox with this background bug | 11:29 |
| elfy | aaah - nvm - iirc wrongly | 11:29 |
| elfy | last time we had a debian background | 11:30 |
| knome | yes | 11:30 |
| elfy | but it does go wrong during every cycle I've had anything to do with testing wise | 11:30 |
| knome | elfy, that's sad thing to happen | 11:31 |
| knome | we even changed our wallpaper to be a symlink | 11:31 |
| knome | to avoid having to change paths in various packages | 11:31 |
| knome | but now it seems to have some other issue | 11:31 |
| elfy | I remember that conversation | 11:31 |
| elfy | so - something is still up with it then - if we've not changed then I guess it's something to do with making everything ok for some phone somewhere | 11:32 |
| knome | heh | 11:32 |
| knome | now that we've landed that and seen some bug reports coming in, do we still think it's fine to edit existing installations to have the pink highlight? | 11:33 |
| knome | it's far more obvious that it's a release-specific thing when you install 14.10, but it can be a bit weird to upgrade to such | 11:33 |
| elfy | well given that people read release notes as much as topics/stickies - I say change it - perhaps they will read next time ;) | 11:34 |
| knome | heh | 11:35 |
| knome | i don't think that helps, | 11:35 |
| knome | two people have already taken the time to file a bug instead of reading the release announcement ;) | 11:35 |
| elfy | you're not surprised surely? | 11:36 |
| knome | the installation should probably wipe out all their data until they learned to read the release notes, but implementing THAT would be a bit too brutal | 11:36 |
| knome | of course i'm not surprised | 11:36 |
| elfy | it does do that if they choose the wrong option ;) | 11:37 |
| knome | lol | 11:37 |
| knome | true | 11:37 |
| elfy | bug 1265192 :) | 11:38 |
| ubottu | bug 1265192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1265192 | 11:38 |
| knome | yep, seen that | 11:38 |
| elfy | imo unless the installer comes with an autopilot like Airplane then people will always read what they *think* it says | 11:39 |
| knome | hehe | 11:40 |
| knome | yep... | 11:40 |
| knome | great, done zsyncing utopic amd64 | 11:40 |
| knome | ...aaaand i386 | 11:41 |
| knome | bluesabre, confirming: | 11:48 |
| knome | 1) clean install, purge abiword, gnumeric and xubuntu-desktop | 11:49 |
| knome | 2) start upgrade: proposes to install abiword, gnumeric and xubuntu-desktop | 11:49 |
| knome | what's pulling these in? | 11:49 |
| bluesabre | Pretty sure its the release upgrader. Otherwise removing a single app from anything would mean never getting any more new/replaced packages on upgrade. | 11:50 |
| bluesabre | considering Ubuntu knows how you installed it, this doesn't seem so unlikely | 11:51 |
| bluesabre | "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 14.04 LTS "Trusty Tahr" - Release i386 (20140416.2)" | 11:51 |
| knome | sure. | 11:51 |
| knome | but still, i fail to see the logic why it wants to force those packages on me | 11:51 |
| bluesabre | I'll check out the source code, 430 open bugs is a bit much to wade through | 11:52 |
| knome | doing another test. | 11:52 |
| bluesabre | env variables... | 11:54 |
| bluesabre | RELEASE_UPGRADE_NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE: | 11:54 |
| bluesabre | - if that is set, no --force-overwrite is used | 11:54 |
| bluesabre | could be useful | 11:54 |
| knome | hmm | 11:55 |
| bluesabre | Yeah, I think it auto-detects based on dependencies... https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/ubuntu-release-upgrader/utopic/view/head:/data/DistUpgrade.cfg#L63 | 12:01 |
| bluesabre | still digging around | 12:02 |
| bluesabre | this thing is huge | 12:02 |
| brainwash | ubuntu-release-upgrader is not just a normal upgrade tool, it's actually "smart" :) | 12:04 |
| bluesabre | I think it makes sense though... Are you running xubuntu 14.04 if you removed xubuntu desktop in 6.06 and then upgraded your way without picking up any of our new packages? | 12:05 |
| bluesabre | you'd still be listening to music with listen | 12:05 |
| bluesabre | I wouldn't want to support that upgrade | 12:07 |
| brainwash | yeah, not a bug after all, the upgrade process is intended to work this way | 12:07 |
| bluesabre | knome: thoughts? | 12:07 |
| brainwash | moreover, it's not xubuntu specific | 12:07 |
| bluesabre | right | 12:07 |
| bluesabre | maybe the program could be extended with a new KeepRemovedPackages | 12:09 |
| bluesabre | but I can imagine that being kludgey | 12:09 |
| knome | bluesabre, did you try what NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE actually does? | 12:22 |
| bluesabre | I did not | 12:22 |
| knome | bluesabre, well, users can install listen even if it wasn't pulled in | 12:22 |
| bluesabre | I know | 12:22 |
| knome | i mean, it really isn't much different from supporting any system with random packages the user needs | 12:23 |
| bluesabre | so if somebody removes abiword in 13.10, they should not get light-locker in 14.04? | 12:23 |
| knome | bluesabre, no, they should not get abiword in 13.10 | 12:23 |
| knome | err, in 14.04.. | 12:23 |
| knome | tiger | 12:24 |
| knome | hmm | 12:24 |
| knome | there you go, my testing password | 12:24 |
| elfy | longer than test | 12:24 |
| knome | yes, and much more imagination-requiring! :P | 12:24 |
| bluesabre | but yeah, not a bug in xubuntu-default-settings, a bug in ubuntu-release-upgrader | 12:24 |
| knome | and harder to type | 12:24 |
| elfy | :) | 12:25 |
| bluesabre | because ultimately we're dealing with apt, so the upgrader would need to be extended to diff a base install, see whats missing, and remove that after upgrade | 12:26 |
| knome | bluesabre, or simply just not install removed packages | 12:26 |
| * bluesabre is not volunteering | 12:26 | |
| knome | that are recommended | 12:26 |
| knome | yes, doing "export RELEASE_UPGRADE_NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE=true" gives me the expected results (from my pov) | 12:28 |
| knome | of course it's a problem if we need new packages to be installed | 12:28 |
| knome | but IMO it's also a problem if the user is forced to install software they removed | 12:29 |
| knome | d | 12:29 |
| elfy | not really sure it's that much of a problem | 12:29 |
| knome | to me, it is a problem | 12:30 |
| knome | if i purge abiword and gnumeric, that means i do not want them | 12:30 |
| knome | ever. | 12:30 |
| elfy | I want xchat - always ;) | 12:30 |
| knome | and it's stupid that i'm forced to get those back on every upgrade, and use my time and bandwidth | 12:30 |
| knome | ok, another problem | 12:34 |
| bluesabre | lol | 12:34 |
| knome | now i can't revert the env var, even if i unset | 12:34 |
| knome | bluesabre, what are you lolling at? :P | 12:34 |
| bluesabre | knome: you're complaining a lot about this app to folks that don't develop this app ;) | 12:35 |
| knome | bluesabre, stuff happens... and really, i'm just laying out my own thoughts, and want feedback from you | 12:35 |
| knome | and want to know if you consider it as a problem | 12:35 |
| knome | or if it's best for me to shut down | 12:36 |
| bluesabre | I don't consider it such a problem. Sure, you're getting things back that you removed, which is a pain | 12:36 |
| knome | bluesabre, fwiw, even with the no force overwrite bit, i'm getting new packages | 12:36 |
| knome | like greybird-gtk-theme | 12:37 |
| bluesabre | But, if the user removes a lot of things, they probably don't really want xubuntu | 12:37 |
| knome | so it's not like i'm falling behing because i don't have xubuntu-desktop | 12:37 |
| bluesabre | shimmer-themes broke out into the individual themes for 14.10 | 12:37 |
| knome | yes | 12:37 |
| knome | which is what i'm saying... | 12:37 |
| bluesabre | shimmer-themes is an empty file now, you're going to get replacements | 12:38 |
| knome | i still get that update | 12:38 |
| knome | even if i don't have xubuntu-desktop | 12:38 |
| bluesabre | right | 12:38 |
| knome | what else new packages do we have? | 12:38 |
| knome | i get inxi too. | 12:38 |
| knome | for some reason, build-essential is installed for me, but whatever, that's a minor issue. | 12:39 |
| knome | (this is a clean trusty update, with abiword/gnumeric/xubuntu-desktop purged) | 12:39 |
| bluesabre | yup | 12:39 |
| knome | err, trusty install .P | 12:39 |
| bluesabre | its still an upgrade | 12:39 |
| bluesabre | so you're getting xubuntu 14.10 | 12:39 |
| knome | exactly | 12:39 |
| knome | without the packages i don't want | 12:39 |
| bluesabre | not ubuntu + xfce 14.10 | 12:39 |
| knome | so once i've upgraded, | 12:39 |
| knome | i'm still using xubuntu | 12:39 |
| knome | not an anomaly of a system we don't want to support, as you implied before ;) | 12:40 |
| knome | i'm not saying we should *encourage* people to use this method | 12:40 |
| knome | but i think it's fair to have it | 12:40 |
| knome | i guess another possibility is... | 12:40 |
| bluesabre | so you get everything except abiword/gnumeric in this case? | 12:40 |
| knome | is there a way to pin a package in a way that it never gets installed? | 12:40 |
| knome | i believe so | 12:40 |
| knome | it's hard to compare the lists since i can't revert the var :P | 12:41 |
| knome | which is one argument against it | 12:41 |
| knome | let me do a quickish reinstall... | 12:41 |
| knome | http://paste.ubuntu.com/8447482/ | 12:42 |
| knome | that's the list with the bit set | 12:42 |
| bluesabre | cool | 12:43 |
| knome | so again, it's not like that's a broken system after that | 12:43 |
| knome | not sure how that would work out if one did many many upgrades | 12:43 |
| knome | ok, let's see what the list looks like without the bit | 12:55 |
| knome | dun dun dun dun dun | 12:55 |
| knome | http://paste.ubuntu.com/8447565/ | 12:56 |
| bluesabre | neat | 12:57 |
| bluesabre | want to add a comment to that bug report then? | 12:58 |
| knome | not yet | 12:58 |
| knome | i'll need to check something else as well | 12:58 |
| knome | and i'm not sure if i want to mention that on a bug report with no disclaimers | 12:58 |
| knome | actually, i think i know a much better variant | 12:59 |
| knome | pin the package name with priority -1, and even the upgrader won't install it | 12:59 |
| knome | now, sure, people can break their systems BADLY with this | 12:59 |
| knome | but at least there's an easy fix... remove pins and upgrade | 13:00 |
| knome | the thing that scares me about the bit you mentioned is that it's hardly documented all (try googling with the name!) and all references seem to be really old | 13:02 |
| bluesabre | its in the README | 14:00 |
| bluesabre | :) | 14:00 |
| bluesabre | https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/ubuntu-release-upgrader/utopic/view/head:/DistUpgrade/README | 14:01 |
| knome | bluesabre, right, then that just didn't pop up in the search results (or i missed it) | 14:19 |
| * vertz pokes brainwash | 16:32 | |
| brainwash | hi vertz | 16:38 |
| vertz | hey | 16:40 |
| vertz | why is synclient set to VertEdgeScroll = 1 when you have two finger scroll enable? | 18:30 |
| vertz | and also | 18:30 |
| vertz | ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/pointers.xml has some odd values | 18:31 |
| vertz | which make you accidently paste whatever you have on clipboard all over the place | 18:31 |
| vertz | this goes for laptops of course | 18:31 |
| vertz | synaptics_tap_action array should be set to [0,0,0,0,0,0,0] | 18:33 |
| vertz | hehe | 21:08 |
| knome | hmm? | 21:24 |
| Unit193 | Shiny, es is almost there. | 23:08 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!