[00:17] <MoPac> Hello. I'm hoping someone might know a tidbit of background on the upcoming BQ platform. My S3 just bricked to a final grave, and I'm interested in getting a phone now that could run Ubuntu when it's ready. Is the BQ Ubuntu version just going to be a current model that the software is certified on?
[00:17] <kokoye2007> hello
[00:17] <kokoye2007> hi all
[00:20] <kokoye2007> who can help #ubuntu-keyboard build
[02:09] <kurt_> do we have anything for showing volume, i'm wanting to see a rise and fall like a UV meter or some kind of gauge? I see nothing under QML types should I try html5?
[02:09] <kurt_> gauge.
[03:56] <kurt_> can we use source from qt nokia stuff? I need to add C++ to the QML so i imagine to nokia stuff may work.
[04:36] <lotuspsychje> you all tested the omgubuntu app? its great!
[04:37] <nhaines> I have not!
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> and some news here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/09/ubuntu-phones-three-things-to-expect
[04:37] <lotuspsychje> nhaines: try it mate, its pretty lightweight and interesting ubuntu news
[04:37] <nhaines> Yes, I sent Joey-Elijah a note over G+ about a factual error in that story.  ;)
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> oh :p
[04:38] <nhaines> The error's still there. :P
[04:38] <lotuspsychje> i also use the rss feed app for my favorite news
[04:38] <nhaines> I kept OMG Ubuntu in my podcatcher until they stopped providing articles in the RSS feeds.  Then I dropped it.
[04:38] <nhaines> I do check in a couple times a week though.
[04:39] <nhaines> I'll have to play with the app next time I'm using Ubuntu.
[04:39] <lotuspsychje> well omgubuntu is the best news site i could find..if you know others?
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu fridge and ubuntu news arent so good
[04:40] <jose> ?
[04:41] <lotuspsychje> jose: whats up?
[04:41] <jose> nothing, nothing.
[04:42] <nhaines> I just try to stick with the mailing list for news.  :)
[04:42] <nhaines> I moderate /r/Ubuntu so a lot of it passes through there too.
[04:42] <lotuspsychje> found some new news: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2687847/ubuntu-touch-finalized-first-phones-coming-this-year.html
[04:43] <nhaines> The article's completely wrong, too.
[04:43] <lotuspsychje> ouch
[04:43] <lotuspsychje> whats wrong on it exactly?
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> well you guys are the devs, so knows best whats going on :p
[04:44] <nhaines> Well, the news it reports on is from September 11th, so it's not new, but it also talks about Ubuntu being released to RTM which hasn't happened.
[04:45] <lotuspsychje> i see
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> i also tested the new torrent app, also great
[04:46] <nhaines> I haven't heard about that one.  What's it called?
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> just dont know where the download folder is
[04:46] <nhaines> Hehe, details.  :)
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> hum
[04:46] <lotuspsychje> its a green arrow down app
[04:47] <lotuspsychje> forgot its name sorry
[04:47] <kurt_> any good tutorials or source showing an ubuntu touch app useing qml and C++, all i find is for nokia
[04:47] <kurt_> DowNow
[04:47] <lotuspsychje> kurt_: tnx :p
[04:47] <lotuspsychje> with a torrents search inside , just great!
[04:48] <kurt_> im trying it now lol
[04:48] <lotuspsychje> someone should invent an easy ubuntu touch creator, so more apps come to life
[04:49] <nhaines> I'd be surprised if there wasn't something like that for QML.  :)
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> oh really
[04:49] <lotuspsychje> if you find one lemme know :p
[04:50] <lotuspsychje> im dying to make terminal apps, like nmap, links2 etc
[04:51] <nhaines> Well, that you just do with ncurses.
[04:52] <lotuspsychje> well im not really a dev/programmer so :p
[04:53] <nhaines> Yes, but the alternative to using a library is to write your own library and use that instead.  :P
[04:53] <nhaines> Besides, it's like learning a new language, or how to paint. :)
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> lol
[04:53] <lotuspsychje> if someone show it in real life maybe
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> or a real easy touch app creator
[04:54] <nhaines> If I could learn German, you can learn Javascript.  :)
[04:54] <lotuspsychje> hahaha, you make it all easy mate
[04:55] <lotuspsychje> for now ill stay the happy touch user :p
[04:55] <nhaines> At least with a programming language words only mean one thing ever. ;)  And you can practice in your web browser.
[04:56] <lotuspsychje> kurt_: if you find the downloader folder let me know ok, so i can find my magazines
[04:57] <lotuspsychje> i tryed find / magazine from terminal but shows me huge list
[04:58] <kurt_> will do
[05:01] <kurt_> cant you use the terminal to search by date modified throught the whole file system?
[05:01] <kurt_> hahaha
[05:01] <kurt_> just tap on the iteam afte its down loaded
[05:02] <kurt_> inside the app stil and a list opens up then jpegs
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> iteam?
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> is that a picture app
[05:05] <kurt_> ya what you download has a big green check mark next to it right
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> yes
[05:05] <lotuspsychje> click on it?
[05:05] <kurt_> ya
[05:06] <lotuspsychje> oh lol, well it was a pdf i tested maybe thats why not opening?
[05:06] <kurt_> then a list of whats inside the folder comes up
[05:06] <kurt_> ah
[05:06] <lotuspsychje> hmmm
[05:06] <kurt_> that is why not sure if we have a pdf reader yet
[05:06] <lotuspsychje> i use the pdfjviewer for magazines
[05:06] <kurt_> opens pictures
[05:06] <lotuspsychje> but it doesnt open on extension yet
[05:07] <kurt_> it just added it to my gallery app when i clicked on it
[05:07] <lotuspsychje> you need to manually browse pdf on system
[05:07] <kurt_> oh
[05:07] <lotuspsychje> but also pretty lightweight pdf viewer
[05:07] <kurt_> ill try to see where its stored
[05:07] <lotuspsychje> its neat!
[05:08] <lotuspsychje> think its in utilities
[05:09] <kurt_> whats the password for full access in file manager
[05:10] <lotuspsychje> the password you provided for your tablet
[05:10] <lotuspsychje> you can set a password in system settings
[05:10] <kurt_> i never set up one just a passcode number for the devolper mode
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> then might be this number
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> didnt test dev pass
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> i use passphrase on the tablet
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> and im being asked on filemanager and terminal
[05:11] <kurt_> haha it is the number
[05:12] <lotuspsychje> yeah you can choose pincode indeed
[05:12] <lotuspsychje> i recently tested the clean phone to factory settings
[05:13] <lotuspsychje> and was nice, puts ubuntu touch back clean state first use
[05:13] <lotuspsychje> very neat also
[05:13] <kurt_> clean phone?
[05:13] <lotuspsychje> in its original ubuntu touch state yes
[05:13] <lotuspsychje> like you just installed it
[05:14] <lotuspsychje> systemsettings/reset device to factory settings
[05:14] <lotuspsychje> brb
[05:15] <kurt_> k
[07:02] <_kaisoz_> hi there
[07:02] <nhaines> hi!
[07:02] <nhaines> Hmm.  Somebody here should tell me how to change the useragent string in the Ubuntu web browser.
[07:02] <nhaines> So I can make an Amazon Cloud Reader webapp and put it in the store.
[07:18] <dholbach> good morning
[07:20] <_kaisoz_> normally, what's the usual time when I can find the developers here?
[07:23] <nhaines> dholbach: good morning.  :)
[07:23] <nhaines> _kaisoz_: usually about now... maybe another hour or so.
[07:24] <_kaisoz_> ahh, I was wondering since AFAIK they are differents countries and probably they'll have different timezones
[07:28] <dbarth> pitti: guten morgen; me again on the langpacks; the issue is fixed in utopic, thanks! can i get the same for rtm?
[07:28] <pitti> bonjour dbarth
[07:28] <pitti> dbarth: sorry, which issue?
[07:30] <nhaines> kaxing: mostly EU business hours.  :)
[07:30] <nhaines> Is there still a way to override the user agent string on the command line with webbrowser-app in utopic?
[07:32] <dbarth> pitti: the accept-language headers in oxide, which end up being in .mo files
[07:32] <dholbach> hi nhaines
[07:32] <pitti> dbarth: ah, ok; hang on
[07:34] <pitti> dbarth: hm, they aren't in the Launchpad exports on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/14.09/+language-packs
[07:34] <pitti> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/14.09/+source/oxide-qt/+translations
[07:34] <pitti> indeed, they aren't in RTM at all
[07:34] <pitti> dbarth: I see it in the import queue; I approve them now, then tomorrow's automatic LP export should have them
[07:35] <dbarth> pitti: perfect, thanks! i'll check tomorrow, but will consider that this test passes in my testing of oxide
[07:35] <dbarth> cool
[07:36] <pitti> dbarth: we'll autobuild new RTM packages tomorrow evening, so they won't make it onto a new image before Friday, I figure
[07:36] <pitti> dbarth: but at least we can verify tomorrow afternoon that the .po files are in the new export
[07:36] <dbarth> ok, noted
[08:18] <kaxing> nhaines, hi?
[08:21] <nhaines> kaxing: hi!
[08:35] <kaxing> nhaines, did you find the solution for your question?
[08:36] <nhaines> kaxing: nope!
[08:41] <ogra_> pitti, seems we have a prob with phonesim ... scroll to the bottom of http://dev-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/utopic-touch_stable-krillin-smoke-daily/262/artifact/clientlogs/dialer_app/syslog/*view*/
[08:58] <pitti> ogra_: does this "init: sys_prop" tell anything to you?
[08:58] <ogra_> pitti, that you try to use "setprop" as phablet user ?
[08:59] <ogra_> (if thats the case we need some kind of dbus service to shouled this
[08:59] <ogra_> *shield
[08:59] <ogra_> )
[09:06] <pitti> ogra_: what is "you" here? (I don't know what setprop is, I certainly don't use it in the phonesim setup scripts)
[09:06] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Vegetarian Day! :-D
[09:06] <ogra_> pitti, hmm, ok
[09:07] <pitti> ogra_: I grepped phonesim for setprop, no hit
[09:07] <ogra_> weird
[09:07] <ogra_> well, something seems to try to set android rpoperties here
[09:07] <pitti> ogra_: I suppose "init" is the session init
[09:08] <pitti> perhaps that's some indicator trying to change the modem status directly with setprop or so?
[09:08] <ogra_> hmm, i was assuming android init, but i think thjat shows up as "./init"
[09:08] <pdxwebdev> Does anyone have a qr code scanning repo that would work for mako?
[09:09] <nhaines> repo?
[09:09] <pitti> ogra_: grepped ofono itself for setprop, also no hit (this could use something else than the setprop program, maybe through a library?)
[09:09] <pdxwebdev> repository
[09:09] <ogra_> pitti, yeah, looking closer i see pulse, might be the sound indicator ... thanks, i'll talk to rsalveti
[09:10] <ogra_> (we still have dialer app issues though ... but thtas likely for a different reason)
[09:10] <ogra_> pdxwebdev, what is a "qr code scanning repo" ?
[09:11] <pitti> I suppose he means an app
[09:11] <pdxwebdev> My apologies. I'm looking to scan qr codes using the camera on a nexus 4
[09:11] <ogra_> ah
[09:11] <ogra_> pdxwebdev, "tagger"
[09:11] <ogra_> search for it in the store
[09:11] <pdxwebdev> sweet. thank you
[10:47] <_kaisoz_> hi!
[11:28] <mzanetti> jgdx: ping
[12:07] <jgdx> mzanetti, pong
[12:08] <robertopero> hi, Does anybody know how can I open the power/shutdown dialog on Ubuntu Touch in the emulator. If I push the F7 button the emulator freezes out.
[12:56] <mzanetti> jgdx: hey, I commented on that branch...
[12:56] <mzanetti> hope that's ok
[12:59] <jgdx> mzanetti, what happened?
[13:00] <jgdx> mzanetti, sure. Won't reset launcher work without this change?
[13:02] <mzanetti> jgdx: yeah
[13:02] <jgdx> ugh
[13:02] <mzanetti> jgdx: you'd just need to remove the assertThat which checks for the mock call on the dbusmock
[13:03] <mzanetti> jgdx: but then add some check that validates if dconf has been reset
[13:03] <mzanetti> which is where I failed and gave up
[13:03] <mzanetti> doesn't sound too hard, but... debugging AP is not my thing
[13:03] <jgdx> mzanetti, right, should be straight forward
[13:07] <jgdx> mzanetti, that assertion was pretty bad :P It's going to be much better now.
[13:18] <jgdx> mzanetti, here you go https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/update-reset-launcher-test/+merge/236704
[13:18] <mzanetti> jgdx: it misses the "items" key
[13:19] <mzanetti> jgdx: to clarify, unity7 uses the "favorites" key to store launcher stuff, unity8 uses "items"
[13:20] <mzanetti> jgdx: and I guess we'd need to change the key before in order to verify if resetting actually works :)
[13:20] <mzanetti> s/key/value/
[13:21] <jgdx> mzanetti, but the values of both keys are the same?
[13:21] <jgdx> and they are both in com.canonical.Unity.Launcher schema
[13:22] <mzanetti> jgdx: yes, they are both in the same schema, but have different values and different defaults
[13:23] <jgdx> mzanetti, so we'll just check that both were reset. Right.
[13:24] <mzanetti> jdstrand: if this version of systemsettings is ever intended to be used with unity7, yes, otherwise I'd say testing the "items" is enough
[13:24] <mzanetti> agan!
[13:24] <mzanetti> sorry jdstrand
[13:24] <mzanetti> jgdx: unity8 doesn't touch the "favorites" at all
[13:25] <jdstrand> hehe
[13:25] <jgdx> mzanetti, ack, gimme two minutes
[13:25] <jdstrand> I was like, "?"
[13:26] <mzanetti> jdstrand: yeah, sorry.. I seem to be unable to not mix up jd<tab> and jg<tab>
[13:26] <jdstrand> I do the same thing all the time. I need to force myself to do 3 chars then tab
[13:28]  * jgdx should really consider changing his nick
[13:28] <jgdx> it does noth rolleth of the tounge
[13:31] <mzanetti> jgdx: it doesn't at all :)
[13:33]  * mpt is slightly disappointed that nobody checked his algebra in bug 1373404
[13:33] <jgdx> mzanetti, you want the fix or not
[13:33] <jgdx> mzanetti, ;p pushed
[13:33] <jgdx> r1098
[13:39] <rsalveti> ogra_: android's init would show up as '(1)[847:init]init:'
[13:39] <rsalveti> or similar
[13:40] <ogra_> rsalveti, yeah
[13:40] <ogra_> rsalveti, well, something in the sound setup seems to try to call setprop
[13:40] <ogra_> as phablet user
[13:40] <rsalveti> hm, setprop?
[13:40] <rsalveti> maybe via hal
[13:40] <ogra_> well, there are set_propery failures
[13:41] <rsalveti> ogra_: which ones you saw?
[13:46] <ogra_> rsalveti, http://dev-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/utopic-touch_stable-krillin-smoke-daily/262/artifact/clientlogs/dialer_app/syslog/*view*/
[13:46] <ogra_> scroll down
[13:46] <ogra_> (to the end)
[13:46] <rsalveti> crap, vpn
[13:46] <ogra_> (1)[842:init]init: sys_prop: permission denied uid:32011  name:af.recovery.mic_mute_on
[13:46] <ogra_> (3)[842:init]init: sys_prop: permission denied uid:32011  name:af.modem_1.status
[13:47] <ogra_> these two ... sometimes a few in a row
[13:47] <ogra_> (orf the same one)
[13:47] <rsalveti> right, let me see who is trying to set such properties
[13:47] <rsalveti> but probably via a HAL
[13:47] <ogra_> shouldnt that run as root ?
[13:47] <ogra_> being a backend
[13:47] <rsalveti> ogra_: nops, hal is just a lib
[13:48] <ogra_> ah
[13:48] <rsalveti> if used by phablet, will be called as phablet
[13:48] <cwayne> nik90: ping
[13:48] <nik90> cwayne: hey :)
[13:49] <cwayne> nik90: heya!  in the clock there was some part that showed sunrise/sunset for that day right?  did you use some API to get that?
[13:49] <nik90> cwayne: yes in the old clock app I had that feature. I used the API in geonames.org to get that info for a location.
[13:50] <cwayne> nik90: ah, perfect, thanks! :)
[13:50] <matv1> lately i have been locked inside an app (any app apparently). ie not being able to swipe out of it or lauch a home view. Otherwise phone seems to remain functional.
[13:50] <matv1> cant do anything except reboot though.
[13:51] <nik90> cwayne: In case you are interested in qml code, -> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clock-dev/ubuntu-clock-app/trunk/view/head:/clock/EasterEggModel.qml
[13:51] <matv1> sounds familiar anyone?
[13:51] <nik90> matv1: I have very rarely had that case.
[13:52] <nik90> matv1: usually I just lock the phone and then unlock it which brings back swipe, access to launcher etc
[13:52] <nik90> matv1: so I don't need to reboot the phone
[13:52] <mzanetti> jgdx: I'm afraid this doesn't cut it yet... https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/update-reset-launcher-test/+merge/236704/comments/579961
[13:53] <nik90> rsalveti: hey, I don't recall asking this to you before, but can clock app fix bug 1362078
[13:53] <nik90> rsalveti: once your silos for the individual audio roles land?
[13:54] <matv1> nik90 that doesnt do it for me lately. but i know what u mean
[13:55] <matv1> nik90 if it happens again, what kind of logs might be usefull? if any?
[13:55] <nik90> matv1: not sure, you will have to ask a unity8 developer for that
[13:55] <jgdx> mzanetti, then I suggest we drop the assertions.
[13:55] <nik90> mzanetti ^^
[13:56] <barry> kenvandine: we have a built silo
[13:56] <mzanetti> jgdx: I think a "simple" gsettings.setValue("items", "some other stuff") before the reset call would do...
[13:56] <mzanetti> jgdx: however, putting "simple" in quotes because that's what I failed at
[13:57] <mzanetti> nik90: ?
[13:57] <matv1> nik90 okay thnx. Otherwise i will just report it against unity and see what happens. cheers fr the info
[13:57] <nik90> mzanetti: sometimes an app just locks up and the user is unable to swipe out of it or launch the home view forcing a reboot of the phone.
[13:58] <nik90> mzanetti: so matv1 would like to know which logs would be useful to help debug the issue.
[13:58] <nik90> matv1: yw
[13:58] <mzanetti> nik90: uh... does that happen with devel-proposed?
[13:59] <mzanetti> nik90: or is this the promoted image?
[13:59] <nik90> mzanetti: I have had it happen to me in rtm devel-proposed (very very rarely). Although for me, locking the phone and then unlocking it, brings back the unity launcher.
[14:00] <matv1> nik90 mzanetti yes I am only on promoted images
[14:00] <mzanetti> matv1: ah, I believe the fixes for that didn't make it to promoted yet
[14:00] <mpt> jgdx, hi, could you check in the System Settings code for me, in the “Sound” panel, what is the name of the icon used at the left end of the volume slider?
[14:00] <jgdx> mzanetti, oh right, that's easy.
[14:01] <mzanetti> jgdx: unless you're not familiar with python syntax and AP doesn't let you print() anything
[14:01] <kenvandine> barry, woot!
[14:01] <jgdx> mpt, minIcon: "image://theme/audio-volume-low" – is that it?
[14:01] <jgdx> mzanetti, it's actually printing if you fail the test :P
[14:01] <barry> kenvandine: i'll start testing s-i on my end
[14:01] <matv1> mzanetti aha i will have to be patient then. thnx
[14:02] <rsalveti> nik90: yes, I'll get back to that once I land the volume changes (which is currently in progress)
[14:02] <kenvandine> barry, thx, i have one more branch to add to it, but i won't rebuild s-i :)
[14:02] <mpt> jgdx, aha. Is there an “audio-volume-none” or “audio-volume-muted” or something that could be used instead?
[14:02] <mzanetti> jgdx: but not what I want to print :) just the line that failed. I tried to inject some meaningful stuff into that line but eventually gave up
[14:02] <mzanetti> matv1: yeah, we fixed a bunch of those issues lately and I'm confident it shouldn't happen any more in the next promoted image
[14:02] <barry> kenvandine: oh THANK YOU. it took me and my monkey army about a jillion rebuilds to get it to pass.  that ppa was slooooooooooooooooooow
[14:02] <mpt> jgdx, it’s a little misleading to suggest that the left end of the slider is ~1/3 volume. :-)
[14:02] <nik90> rsalveti: no worries, I just wanted to know if clock app would have the permission to change the alarm volume in the first place. Or would this be reserved to the sound indicator?
[14:03] <mpt> jgdx, and indicator-sound looks like it uses an icon with zero waves rather than one
[14:03] <kenvandine> jgdx, can i get a review?
[14:03] <rsalveti> nik90: pulseaudio will export a dbus interface for that, now we just need to see if the app will be able to change that
[14:04] <rsalveti> we might need to change some security related things, but I think it's doable
[14:04] <kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-system-settings/download_states/+merge/236443
[14:04] <nik90> rsalveti: cool, thnx
[14:04] <jgdx> kenvandine, sure
[14:04] <kenvandine> jgdx, ^^ i'd like to get that into silo 2 with the other update branch
[14:04] <jgdx> mpt, good point..
[14:04] <kenvandine> my other update branch makes the install all/pause all bugs more obvious... this fixes them :)
[14:05] <rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, don't need to worry about such properties
[14:05] <rsalveti> ogra_: but got a wi to clean that up at some point
[14:05] <jgdx> mpt, yeah, low-zero
[14:06] <jgdx> mpt, file:///usr/share/icons/suru/status/scalable/audio-volume-low-zero.svg
[14:07] <mpt> jgdx, cool. Would you like a bug report for that?
[14:07] <jgdx> kenvandine, you have a related bug?
[14:07] <jgdx> mpt, that'd be great
[14:07] <kenvandine> not that i've seen
[14:11] <mterry> ted, updated greeter-profiles-test this morning with some small changes -- works slightly better now.  You sometimes get indicator content switches, but not always....
[14:11] <ted> mterry, Ah, okay, it's in silo 13. I can rebuild it.
[14:13] <mterry> seems like it takes a while for the menu content to update, oddly...
[14:13] <mterry> ted, oh that branch has a merge conflict with trunk, let me update before silo is rebuilt
[14:16] <mterry> ted, OK updated
[14:16] <ted> mterry, Cool, building
[14:20] <mpt> jgdx, reported bug 1376286
[14:24] <jgdx> mpt, thanks
[14:30] <jgdx> kenvandine, want me to try this on the device?
[14:30] <jgdx> I can't seem to be able to download the debs (404)
[14:30] <kenvandine> jgdx, something is wrong with jenkins... hang on
[14:35] <kenvandine> jgdx, can you access the qa lab vpn?
[14:35] <kenvandine> http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-builder-utopic-armhf/6604/artifact/work/output/*zip*/output.zip
[14:35] <kenvandine> if you can
[14:36] <kenvandine> jgdx, that isn't the latest
[14:36] <kenvandine> http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-builder-utopic-armhf/6614/artifact/work/output/*zip*/output.zip
[14:37] <jgdx> kenvandine, my vpn has been shaky lately
[14:37] <jgdx> so no
[14:37] <andrej__> Hi
[14:38] <kenvandine> jgdx, ok, seb128's testing it
[14:39] <jgdx> kenvandine, I've looked through the code though. Excepts for the nits, it LGTM
[14:43] <jgdx> mzanetti, pushed the thing we talked about
[14:47] <mzanetti> jgdx: cool, thanks
[15:09] <mzanetti> jgdx: verified and merged. thank you very much!
[15:10] <jgdx> mzanetti, and thank you
[15:13] <sergiusens> pitti: hey, do you know what the timeout for a DBus.Error.NoReply is and where it's configured?
[15:13]  * sergiusens needs enlightenment
[15:15] <ogra_> sergiusens, e17 ?
[15:15] <ogra_> :)
[15:15] <sergiusens> nah
[15:22] <jgdx> sergiusens, I once found that 60 seconds was the timeout, and it's defined in whatever dbus client you use. Add a pinch of salt, though.
[15:25] <jgdx> sergiusens, no, 25 seconds, sorry.
[15:33] <sergiusens> jgdx: thanks
[15:44] <pitti> sergiusens: it's usually 25 seconds
[15:44] <pitti> sergiusens: a call can set a different one
[15:45] <pitti> sergiusens: I don't know whether the default can be changed in /etc/dbus-1/system.conf
[15:45] <ogra_> we should probably drop that to 5sec
[15:46] <ogra_> (if it  can)
[15:46] <ogra_> i find 25 exhaustingly long
[15:46] <pitti> it's usually for accomodating dbus activation
[15:46] <pitti> a daemon might need some time to initialize itself
[15:47] <ogra_> yeah, but 25 sec ?
[15:47] <ogra_> some service that takes this long for activation should probably rather be a daemon
[15:48] <pitti> yeah
[15:48] <pitti> ./dbus/dbus-connection-internal.h:#define _DBUS_DEFAULT_TIMEOUT_VALUE (25 * 1000)
[15:49] <pitti> so that's a per-client default in libdbus (not the daemon), it can't be changed in a config file
[15:49] <pitti> only per call
[15:49] <pitti> or we'd have to change it globally
[15:49] <sergiusens> pitti: ok, makes sense, thanks
[16:13] <charly_> is java required to compile ubuntu-touch?
[16:57] <qqz> trying to reboot into the bootloader or recovery mode by adb reboot bootloader/ recovery but my device always just boots the normal way.
[16:57] <qqz> May it be locked in some way?
[17:11] <dobey> qqz: can you not use the hardware buttons method to go to bootloader?
[17:33] <dobey> mardy: still around?
[17:37] <dobey> 2014-10-01 17:37:05,885 - DEBUG - ../../../../lib/SignOn/authsessionimpl.cpp 184 errorSlot QDBusError("com.google.code.AccountsSSO.SingleSignOn.Error.PermissionDenied", "Client has insuficient permissions to access the service.Method:getAuthSessionObjectPath")
[17:38] <dobey> anyone know why that would happen? or how to debug it?
[17:38] <barry> kenvandine: s-i 2.5 from the silo works well, although i did not test the integration with the new system-settings .Information() key.  i'll leave it to you from here on to test as necessary and publish the silo.  do ping me if you find any problems with si, want more testing, etc.
[17:38] <taiebot> Anyone on r.264 looks like i have loss the ability to receive text messages. I am still able to send them and receive phone calls but i have not received some from my girlfriend. I am looking for someone here with r.264 to send him a text message to confirm. This looks like it was happening on r.263
[17:47] <sergiusens> taiebot: don't you have access to a webportal for sending? My operator provides one
[17:47] <sergiusens> to send to my operator
[17:47] <sergiusens> 's operated sims
[17:49] <taiebot> sergiusens: Not that i know. My provider is not that great (vectone) and it could be the reason that i cannot receive text that's why i want to confirm before reporting a bug.
[17:52] <taiebot> sergiusens: i have already tested with my girlfriend and from all the text she send I have receive none of them.
[17:52] <dobey> taiebot: try sending an sms to your own number from your phone
[17:52] <sergiusens> that would work too :)
[17:52] <dobey> wfm anyway
[17:52] <sergiusens> taiebot: sms work fine here, so it has to be the operator or an operator specific bug
[17:52] <dobey> on 263 on my n5
[17:53] <dobey> although, just noticed that it's not showing the name from my address book for some people who did sms me recently
[17:53] <dobey> anyway
[17:54] <sergiusens> dobey: restart address-book-service or ping renatu before you do ;-)
[17:54] <dobey> why am i having such trouble talking to online-accounts now :(
[17:54] <sergiusens> dobey: seems to be an eds/address book race
[17:54] <renatu> dobey, a fix was released today
[17:55] <taiebot> Ok it worked could it be that if my phone is in deep sleep the service is not trigger.
[17:58] <dobey> i guess mardy is already gone :-/
[18:10] <vitimiti> Hi
[18:13] <kenvandine> barry, thx
[18:15] <dobey> kenvandine: do you have any idea how to debug this permissions problem talking to onlin-accounts?
[18:15] <kenvandine> dobey, sorry... no idea
[18:19] <qqz> dobey: no it is a GT-I5700
[18:19] <taiebot> I have tested this myself and it seems to work as expected. The way i did it. In /usr/share/ofono/scripts . i typed ./send-sms /ril_0 myphonenumber mymessage 0. and i correctly receive my message
[18:19] <qqz> boot buttons for booting into the bootloader are not documented
[18:19] <nhaines> qqz: they're hardware-dependant.
[18:20] <qqz> yes, I know but I did not see any docs for a GT-I5700
[18:20] <qqz> simply try it with some of them?
[18:20] <dobey> is there a community build for that device already available? or are you trying to port to it?
[18:22] <qqz> no I am just trying an existing build; will not care if the device will be usable as telephone or not; just wanna use it as dictionary
[18:23] <qqz> the device is very old; it did not even support adb backup ...
[18:25] <dobey> i don't know what to tell you then. i don't think a recent built of ubuntu touch will run on it, and i'm guessing the port is not maintained
[18:26] <qqz> well I had been here some time ago and we found that it would be worth a try
[18:29] <qqz> as long as the code is compiled for armhf I guess it should work; do not care if all device drivers are supported.
[18:29] <dobey> well, some drivers are necessary
[18:30] <dobey> even if the phone radio or bluetooth isn't ones you want
[18:30] <qqz> unfortunately none of the documented key combinations do work.
[18:30] <qqz> well could look at how the kernel modules are called
[18:33] <qqz> http://pastie.org/9610855
[18:36] <qqz> may it be that the magic key combination or the adb reboot bootloader are blocked by some constraint which limits the device to be used with a certain provider only (am not absolutely sure whether this is the case).
[18:38] <qqz> would be nice to know at least what needed to be done to make that device usable, if so.
[18:38] <dobey> i have no idea really. sorry :-/
[18:39] <qqz> whom to ask?
[18:40] <ichigo-roku> Hi
[18:41] <ichigo-roku> Is that possible to disable the vibration each time I tap on something in Ubuntu Touch ?
[18:52] <kenvandine> ichigo-roku, you can turn it off for the keyboard
[18:52] <kenvandine> but i don't think you can turn it off for everything
[18:54] <ichigo-roku> kenvandine, Yes I turned it off for the keyboard. I really hate when my phone vibrate for almost each tap
[18:54] <ichigo-roku> Thanks for your help
[18:54] <kenvandine> maybe that should be a setting :)
[18:55] <kenvandine> ichigo-roku, you can file a bug against ubuntu-ui-toolkit
[18:55] <kenvandine> ichigo-roku, can't promise anything will happen, but couldn't hurt
[18:56] <kenvandine> if the toolkit used a setting, i could add it to system-settings
[18:57] <ichigo-roku> kenvandine, OK thanks
[18:58] <kenvandine> ichigo-roku, no problem
[19:07] <mardy> dobey: I'm around now, but briefly :-) Please tell me :-)
[19:11] <dobey> mardy: i'm setting 2014-10-01 18:14:25,321 - DEBUG - ../../../../lib/SignOn/authsessionimpl.cpp 184 errorSlot QDBusError("com.google.code.AccountsSSO.SingleSignOn.Error.PermissionDenied", "Client has insuficient permissions to access the service.Method:getAuthSessionObjectPath")
[19:12] <dobey> mardy: not sure why it's happening or how to debug it. just started happening for me today :-/
[19:12] <mardy> dobey: looks like you don't have the "accounts" apparmor policy
[19:12] <dobey> mardy: is that needed for an unconfined app?
[19:13] <mardy> dobey: ops, now I notice, that this is not from apparmor but from signond
[19:13] <dobey> yes
[19:13] <dobey> there are no DENIED in syslog for it either
[19:14] <mardy> dobey: can you set the logging level to 2 in /etc/signond.conf and try again? Then please paste me the last part of the syslog
[19:16] <dobey> Oct  1 19:15:51 ubuntu-phablet signond[6664]: Process "com.canonical.payui_payui_0.3.25" access to "unconfined" DENIED
[19:17] <dobey> mardy: i guess that's the line you're looking for?
[19:18] <mardy> dobey: a bit more than that, I hope that somewhere the ACL is printed
[19:18] <dobey> Oct  1 19:15:51 ubuntu-phablet signond[6664]: ../../../../src/signond/accesscontrolmanagerhelper.cpp 81 isPeerAllowedToUseIdentity "Access control list of identity: 11: [].Tokens count: 0#011"
[19:18] <dobey> that?
[19:18] <mardy> dobey: yes!
[19:19] <mardy> dobey: so, it seems that when the U1 plugin creates the account, it doesn't add "unconfined" to the ACL
[19:19] <dobey> did something change yesterday/today with ACLs?
[19:19] <dobey> hmm
[19:19] <mardy> dobey: no, we haven't had updates of signond since weeks
[19:19] <mardy> dobey: ah!!!
[19:20] <mardy> dobey: the signon-apparmor-extension package was not installed, so in practice no ACL controls were made
[19:20] <dobey> so why is it only happening now, and was working fine for me when i was furiously testing payui on monday and yesterday morning?
[19:20] <dobey> oh
[19:20] <dobey> and that's in the image now?
[19:20] <mardy> dobey: it must have been added to the seed in these days
[19:20] <mardy> dobey: I cannot check now, but most likely that's the case
[19:21] <mardy> dobey: you should see a mention of apparmor in the logs
[19:21] <dobey> yes it's installed in the image
[19:21] <dobey> ii  signon-apparmor-extension                            0.1+14.10.20140521-0ubuntu1                 armhf        AppArmor access control extension for signond
[19:22] <dobey> mardy: so what do i need to do now to fix this? shouldn't i get a UI pop up to ask for access to be added?
[19:22] <mardy> dobey: so, that's the reason; we need to fix the U1 plugin to add that token to the acl
[19:22] <mardy> dobey: I'm not sure that works for "unconfined" apps, but it actually should...
[19:23] <dobey> mardy: if i make the app be confined, would it work?
[19:23] <mardy> dobey: does the PayUI use the OnlineAccounts.Client module (the Setup element) to request access to the U1 account?
[19:24] <mardy> dobey: the simplest fix is make the U1 account plugin add "unconfined" to the ACL when the account is created
[19:24] <dobey> mardy: not exactly. it's using libubuntuoneauth
[19:24] <dobey> mardy: i guess this is a problem for the scope now too as well, though?
[19:26] <dobey> hmm, no, the scope seems to work still, so i guess it's ok
[19:27] <mardy> dobey: weird... if the ACL is empty, it's strange that the scope works...
[19:28] <dobey> well, according to the logs it's working
[19:29] <dobey> i guess maybe because it's not a click, and doesn't have a .application file
[19:29] <dobey> no idea though
[19:43] <dobey> mardy: have a link to example code for how to add the ACL when account is created?
[20:00] <elopio> ping ted.
[20:00] <elopio> do you have some time to talk again about a temp home dir?
[20:00] <elopio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-launch/+bug/1376423
[20:00] <ted> pong elopio
[20:01] <elopio> ubuntu-qa, thomi and balloons: ^ feel free to also comment that bug.
[20:01] <ted> I kinda disagree with your statement there.
[20:01] <ted> "In the past we were able to get a reasonably clean environment setting the value of $HOME to a temporary directory."
[20:01] <ted> That was always a bad idea.
[20:02] <mardy> dobey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~online-accounts/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/trunk/view/head:/online-accounts-ui/module/OAuth.qml#L67
[20:02] <ted> elopio, Why can't you just wipe the device for a clean environment?
[20:02] <elopio> ted: that's clear for me now.
[20:02] <ted> That's really the only way it's really "clean"
[20:02] <elopio> ted: we are not always testing on phones, we also need to test on dev machines.
[20:02] <dobey> hmm
[20:03] <elopio> ted: and some of the devices we are using are also the ones we dogfood.
[20:03] <ted> elopio, Okay, in a container.
[20:03] <elopio> it's bad to have to reset them every time.
[20:03] <ted> elopio, dog fooded devices can't ever be clean.
[20:03] <elopio> ted: a container can be a good solution.
[20:03] <ted> I'm hoping people don't use that for real testing.
[20:04] <elopio> ted: not for something like running the whole suite to decide if a version is promoted or not.
[20:04] <elopio> but we need to use the dogfooding devices to check that a new test we added works.
[20:04] <elopio> or to debug a test that started failing.
[20:05] <elopio> otherwise we would need two devices. Of every model.
[20:05] <mardy> dobey: sorry, that was QML; the code that needs changing is here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntuone-credentials/trunk/view/head:/libubuntuoneauth/keyring.cpp#L161
[20:05] <ted> But, you'll need to wipe it to land the silo with the new test, no?
[20:05]  * balloons settles in
[20:05] <ted> So you kinda need a device you can wipe of every model you care about.
[20:05] <mardy> dobey: add a info.setAccessControlList(QStringList() << "unconfined");, or something like that
[20:05] <dobey> mardy: ok
[20:06] <elopio> ted: that's for the silo testers.
[20:06] <ted> Don't we silo MRs for tests?
[20:06] <elopio> they are not necessarily the same as the dogfooders or automation devs.
[20:07] <balloons> ted, we do need a way to run tests sanely as a developer or test writer too
[20:07] <ted> Sure, but those folks don't need a clean test environment either.
[20:07] <elopio> ted: I didn't get that last question. But I think you would agree that any solution we find, needs to be easily runnable from a dev machine. Do we agree there?
[20:07] <balloons> but you can argue about whether the test or the test harness should prep the environment
[20:08] <ted> I'm just saying that we're not going to get "clean" on a device that isn't wiped.
[20:08] <ted> It's always going to be sullied in some way.
[20:08] <elopio> ted: maybe we could get a container on a device that is not wiped
[20:08] <ted> Or there's enough of a chance that it could be that it's not a "result" just a checkup.
[20:08] <balloons> at the very least the test shouldn't be polluting, while still allow us to setup at least the parts we are responsible for correctly
[20:09] <elopio> and generally we will run on an unwiped device just a small subset of tests.
[20:09] <elopio> maybe for that case we don't need a perfectly clean environment. Just something that doesn't delete all the photos I took yesterday.
[20:09] <ted> Sure, the testing shouldn't be destructive.
[20:10] <dobey> elopio: can you not run the tests in a schroot?
[20:10] <balloons> right.. I feel like for the things the app reads and writes, we should be able to control and initialize and clean up well
[20:10] <elopio> ted: but we need to test the behavior of the gallery app without existing tests. So we need to have an environment that temporarily doesn't see any photos.
[20:10] <elopio> dobey: I think we could. Here we just want to start the discussion of which is the right way.
[20:11] <elopio> we need to take into account how slow it is, because if it takes 10 minutes to run two tests, tests are not going to be run often enough.
[20:11] <ted> Sure, so I think that a chroot is an option.
[20:11] <ted> I like creating another user for the tests.
[20:11] <balloons> right.. if the test harness creates the environment, the setup is not easy
[20:11] <ted> That creates a cleanish environment for that user.
[20:11] <elopio> but if we find a way to do it in a reasonable amount of time, it works for me.
[20:12] <ted> If it's a system image based device, then the new user should be very clean.
[20:12] <dobey> ted: or just run them as "guest" user
[20:12] <dobey> ted: and everything gets destroyed on logout
[20:12] <balloons> elopio, well technically adt-run is more or less there, as it sets up the env for it's tests
[20:12] <elopio> ted: so if the solution is creating another user for the tests, we need to start working on reducing the amount of time it takes unity to start or on launching apps without unity.
[20:12] <ted> dobey, Yeah it'd be roughly the same, but I dont' think we'd want automatic delete like guest does.
[20:12] <elopio> but that's also a perfectly valid option.
[20:12] <balloons> there was issues with just jumping to another user, but the apparmor stuff too would be easier
[20:12] <balloons> I know jamie preferred that route
[20:13] <dobey> ted: then a scrhoot is probably the best thing (and i think that's what adt-run uses anyway)
[20:13] <ted> elopio, I can't think of anyone that doesn't want U8 to start faster, but I don't think that blocks working on a new user based solution.
[20:13] <elopio> dobey: adt-run can use anything. lxc, schroot, ssh into a real or emulated device, or even just run on the local machine.
[20:13] <dobey> an lxc/chroot with nested apparmor support would be more in the right direction
[20:14] <elopio> dobey: that's something I like.
[20:15] <elopio> then we need to talk about a virtual framebuffer for MIR, and an easy command that fires up the lxc with all the app armor rules and upstart vars that we will find on ubuntu touch.
[20:15] <jdstrand> you can't run click apps confined in lxc
[20:15] <jdstrand> not yet anyway. that needs the apparmor stacking work to be completed, which we are working on
[20:15] <elopio> jdstrand: welcome to the party :) I'm glad you are here, sorry for not pinging you before.
[20:15] <jjohansen> well you can but it takes some work, and won't be generally supported yet
[20:16] <balloons> jdstrand, welcome indeed :-)
[20:16] <jjohansen> you have to turn off the existing apparmor mediation on lxc, and setup an apparmor policy namespace for the lxc container
[20:16] <elopio> all we are asking is for a blessed way to start apps for testing. And get this blessed way under automated tests so we can rely on it working forever.
[20:16] <jjohansen> then you can in fact do it
[20:17] <elopio> I don't know if the solution should live in ubuntu-app-launch, upstart, autopilot, phablet-tools, or something else.
[20:17] <jdstrand> elopio: for it to work forever in lxc, you need to wait for our 15.04 work. maybe something could be done like jjohansen mentioned, but thinking that wouldn't work fantastic
[20:17] <dobey> elopio: emulator? :)
[20:17] <balloons> so this does seem to push everything into the harness. Should the tests then be 'dumb'?
[20:17] <jjohansen> elopio: sorry I can only offer you a shim atm, I won't promise it will work forever
[20:17] <jdstrand> what about the emulator?
[20:17] <ted> elopio, I don't think you need anything in Mir really, it already supports nesting for the system compositor case.
[20:18] <jjohansen> jdstrand: it works fine, I use it all the time, there just isn't any tooling around it so it is a pita
[20:18] <dobey> elopio: can you not create/destroy emulator instances and run the tests inside the emulator?
[20:18] <elopio> emulator is also an option. But the apps will eventually work on desktop too
[20:18] <jdstrand> jjohansen: sure, that is what I meant be not working fantastic-- would have to do the tooling etc and then it would be tossed out down the road
[20:18] <elopio> it would feel weird to launch an emulator that emulates your actual development device. But if it's fast and reliable, I'm also ok with that.
[20:19] <dobey> elopio: well, that's all a chroot is
[20:19] <jjohansen> jdstrand: ah okay, yep
[20:19] <dobey> elopio: when we get to a converged state, i would expect the emulator to be able to have layouts for tablet and other things as well as phone.
[20:19] <jdstrand> so, I've been welcomed to the party, but what is the topic of the discussion at this party exactly?
[20:20] <dobey> if it doesn't then the emulator itself loses a lot of usefulness
[20:20] <elopio> dobey: I guess you would be able to choose if you want to run on a brand new and clean chroot, or on your real machine with the risk of affecting your contests.
[20:20] <elopio> *contents
[20:20] <ted> jdstrand, Creating a way to run tests, with mock data, in a semi-clean fashion on a dogfooding device.
[20:20] <elopio> that's also fine by me.
[20:20] <balloons> I feel like the tests should be a bit better behaved and not offload everything to the runner, imho. I'm somewhat concerned about the idea of only being able to run tests in an isolated enviornment
[20:20] <jdstrand> we are supposed to also gate on the emulator working correctly. we don't now, but that is planned aiui
[20:20] <dobey> elopio: we can already do that though :)
[20:20] <balloons> jdstrand, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-launch/+bug/1376423
[20:21] <jdstrand> balloons: ok, so this is a continuation of our discussion
[20:21] <balloons> jdstrand, it's a continuation and evolution of Matla discussions yep
[20:21] <jdstrand> (longtime discussion)
[20:21] <elopio> dobey: but we don't have a way now to get the same environment you would get on ubuntu-touch from a chroot.
[20:21] <balloons> and before matla :-)
[20:21] <elopio> at least not easily.
[20:21] <jdstrand> I maintain that creating a new user is the likely the easiest short term solution
[20:21] <elopio> we need to launch the apps with ubuntu-app-launch, and that's not currently possible without unity, I think.
[20:22] <dobey> elopio: well, that's what the emulator is; or you could download the image and unpack it, and use that as the chroot
[20:22] <elopio> and if we need to start unity, then it's slow.
[20:22] <dobey> ubuntu-app-launch works fine without unity
[20:22] <jdstrand> once we have lxc stacking, we should be able to leverage lxc for this more easily
[20:22] <elopio> dobey: it doesn't work on an xvfb. We need to do some extra work to get it set up.
[20:23] <elopio> which is fine. As long as that extra work is encapsulated on a simple API call, with the API being maintained by the devs that will eventually break it.
[20:23] <dobey> elopio: not sure what you're missing there, but it works fine inside my lxc while redirecting DISPLAY to my host
[20:24] <dobey> oh, well it used to. maybe it doesn't any more
[20:24] <balloons> jdstrand, I too am curious about blockers for the new user route
[20:24] <elopio> dobey: so there are two more or less related problems. Run tests in a virtual X, and then run the tests with a clean home.
[20:24] <dobey> "unable to setup cgroup"
[20:24] <dobey> which i guess is the apparmor nesting problem
[20:25] <balloons> if we created a new user, could we simply start the app outside of unity running?
[20:25] <elopio> dobey: and what you are finding is what has brought us to an unmanageable mess. There are simple solutions that work at some point.
[20:25] <elopio> we put them on the test set up, and then they stop working.
[20:25] <elopio> the solution to get them back to green is again simple, so we do it.
[20:26] <dobey> elopio: welcome to the joy of developing things on top of a moving target
[20:26] <elopio> and that has happened for a long time, so the solution is now not simple, nor clean, and will keep breaking.
[20:26] <balloons> ^^ that is the primary concern.. the complexity only continues to grow
[20:27] <elopio> dobey: it wouldn't be hard at all to make sure the solution keeps working always. We just need to make sure that it's tested when releasing new app armor rules, new upstart versions, new container versions. All the weird details will be encapsulated behind a single call.
[20:27] <elopio> we just need to find which is the team that has to implement that testability API.
[20:28] <elopio> currently I don't know. I think that ted and jdstrand agree that a clean environment means a new user.
[20:28] <ted> So I'm with jdstrand on creating a new user
[20:28] <balloons> right.. if there's one proper way to do it, we can test it and keep it working
[20:28] <elopio> if that's the case, where do we put a script that gives us that new user with an env as close as what we will see on ubuntu-touch as possible?
[20:28] <ted> I think you can steal the code from the guest account setup, and do basically the same thing.
[20:29] <elopio> ted: but I don't want to steal code and duplicate it on every test suite set up.
[20:29] <dobey> elopio: it is hard to make a solution that always works, because requirements change, and we get better at doing things. as that happens, stuff will stop working in the same way.
[20:29] <ted> Basically you create the new user and then poke lightdm to autologin as that user the next time it runs.
[20:29] <balloons> elopio, related, would we take the new user concept to the desktop and other platforms as well (instead of mocking)?
[20:29] <ted> Basically a new device at that point.
[20:30] <elopio> I want to just make a single call, and that call to be the same on all the set ups.
[20:30] <dobey> dwim()
[20:30] <balloons> dobey, right.. we have helpers that elopio has maintained for some time to improve the backend and keep things working without breaking tests, all while letting us do simple things
[20:30] <balloons> I would invision this to be more or less the same
[20:31] <elopio> ted: I like how it sounds, and on the test clean up we can reset lightdm to the real behaviour and delete the new user.
[20:31] <dobey> right. it's a matter of getting all the brains in the same room and coming up with something that is implemetable, maintainable, and pushes things further in the right direction
[20:32] <ted> elopio, Correct and you can also suck up the whole home directory as test artifacts on failure.
[20:32] <ted> You'll get the upstart logs, etc all for free without having to know which to grab.
[20:32] <balloons> all good stuff
[20:32] <elopio> if we all agree that's the best solution, then we can start thinking of where to maintain that fixture. And the next problems we will find, like restarting unity.
[20:33] <ted> To be clear, you won't be restarting unity. You'll be logging out the current user and logging in the new one.
[20:33] <elopio> I guess we will be able to call the same fixture from an LXC, schroot or emulator. So it sounds independent from the test runner.
[20:33] <ted> Which, in effect, restarts unity.
[20:33] <elopio> ted: oh, but then if I run it on the machine where I'm writing the tests, the IDE and everything will be closed.
[20:34] <elopio> can't we start an additional user session?
[20:34] <ted> In theory, but you'll be testing Mir in a new way there today.
[20:34] <ted> In the long run that should work, but I'd imagine you find interesting bugs today.
[20:35] <balloons> ahh that was the issue.. I couldn't remember the ! with a new user
[20:35] <elopio> well, I'm not too concerned about how hard would it be. If that's the right(tm) solution, then we look for resources to implement it and while it's done we can keep maintaing our hacks.
[20:36] <balloons> it needs to happen for MIR anyway.. right, we can be a catalyst
[20:37] <elopio> well, I think that it's an essential feature for upstart, ubuntu-app-launch, app-armor, mir and unity to provide these testability features we are requesting.
[20:37] <dobey> ted, elopio: well, you should be able to just run a second X session as the new user too. you don't need to log out the current user. you just need to run the session for the new user somewhere
[20:37] <elopio> it doesn't sound to me like we are spoiled and want extra easy things. I might be wrong, because I'm spoiled :)
[20:37] <dobey> not sure how you do that with mir though
[20:37] <ted> elopio, Everyone thinks their features are essential :-)
[20:38] <ted> dobey, Ubuntu system compositor
[20:38] <elopio> ted: yes, but we have a better argument. If we don't test everybody else's features, they will break :D
[20:38] <dobey> we had to drink from a rolled up newspaper!
[20:39] <ted> elopio, I think of it the other way, if you don't test I don't have more bugs to fix! ;-)
[20:40] <elopio> funny guy.
[20:40] <elopio> ;)
[20:40] <elopio> ok, I'll put all this discussion on a paste and link it to the bug.
[20:40] <elopio> it will be open I guess for a couple of weeks before we decide a course of action.
[20:40] <balloons> ted, lol.. no bugs found, no bugs to fix ;-)
[20:40] <dobey> if you're going to paste it, just paste it in the bug report
[20:40] <dobey> don't link to pastebins in bug reports
[20:41] <elopio> I guess kgunn and the ci-team would also like to be involved in the discusssion.
[20:41] <dobey> pastebins can expire
[20:41] <elopio> dobey: ack.
[20:42] <ted> elopio, Probably a session for the next sprint, seems to align with your timelines.
[20:42] <elopio> thanks everybody for your time. And don't worry, we will keep bothering you
[20:42] <balloons> ted, most certainly it will be discussed at the sprint ;-) live and in person means I hope we have a solution by the end eh?
[20:43]  * ted looks to see what weapons he can pack in his suitcase
[20:43] <ted> :-)
[20:43] <ted> "solution"
[20:43] <dobey> balloons: if solution is "drink more beer" then maybe
[20:43] <balloons> a possible solution!
[20:44] <ted> Honestly, I think what we have is reasonable, it's more a matter of working out the details at this point.
[21:23] <pdxwebdev> Which package to edit the "pull down menu" feature
[21:23] <pdxwebdev> ?
[21:24] <pdxwebdev> Where you slide from the top of the screen to see transfers, networks, etc.?
[21:35] <nhaines> That's part of Unity 8.
[21:38] <nith1210> Kinda love that the connected Wifi is green now. Orientation switching doesn't seem to be working for me today.
[22:22] <cwayne> is there an easy way to not have click-buddy leave a bunch of stuff in my src dir