[14:48] <skellat> This looks hideous: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=763499
[14:49] <jenni> [ #763499 - RFP: uselessd -- a project to reduce systemd to a base initd, process supervisor and transactional dependency system, while minimizing intrusiveness and isolationism. - Debian Bug report log[...] ] - https://j.mp/ZrDgNP
[15:21] <dzho> skellat: ah, a systemd fan then?
[15:21] <skellat> No
[15:21] <skellat> Just...sometimes you have to let things be finished
[15:22] <skellat> The number of potential re-openers in the Debian debate almost kept it going forever
[15:25] <dzho> you can't declare something finish and, well, if you look at the project page you can see that these are people who probably DGAF about Debian debates.
[15:25] <dzho> putting this as they have in a FreeBSD context.
[15:25] <skellat> DGAF?
[15:25] <dzho> don't give a fsck
[15:26] <dzho> the problems with systemd aren't going to just poof disappear
[15:26] <skellat> Oh, I know
[15:26] <skellat> systemd still bothers me
[15:26] <dzho> ok, then I don't get why you'd want to hush discussion about it
[15:27] <skellat> I just want to see it in a proper Debian release and a proper *buntu release
[15:27] <skellat> And then we can mercilessly tear it apart
[15:28] <dzho> because we haven't had a chance to do that already?
[15:28] <skellat> Ubuntu-side, not really
[15:28] <skellat> Debian-side...Jessie has been a roiling cauldron lately
[15:28] <dzho> this is one of those things where you declare darkness the new standard
[15:29] <skellat> If we end up with releases we just disavow
[15:29] <skellat> Well
[15:29] <skellat> That'll say something too
[15:30] <dzho> I thought that was everything with Unity already ;-)
[15:30] <skellat> Well, I look forward to testing reports if they ever exist of Ubuntu GNOME 14.10
[15:31] <skellat> Since Unity is at least tested
[15:31] <skellat> UG is slotting in GNOME 3.12 very, very, very late after Feature Freeze and there really isn't testing of it
[15:31]  * dzho shrugs
[15:31] <skellat> As in, it started hitting archive yesterday
[15:32]  * skellat notes that Xubuntu is fabulous
[15:32] <dzho> I tried lubuntu and found it not to my liking, xubuntu is better but still a bit rough here and there.
[15:33] <dzho> for my purposes, of course, I'm not a desktop connoisseur
[15:33] <skellat> The systemd issue in *buntu is going to get interesting soon as Ubuntu GNOME has pieces/parts more tightly integrated with systemd than you'd otherwise expect.  They also haven't been playing nice with the release schedule and have some things that hit that impact everybody else now that Mark committed to systemd *buntu-side.
[15:34] <dzho> I can tell you I won't much care about it until 2016
[15:34] <dzho> with the change up in release cycles I've lost track completely of non-LTS
[15:34] <dzho> other than AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA don't use them if you don't have to!
[15:35] <skellat> I'm actually glad we only support the non-LTS semi-annuals for only 9 months
[15:35] <dzho> we just threw away a big pile of release disks for intermediate releases because dropped support for them makes them a real PITA
[15:35] <dzho> its even hard to upgrade them.
[15:35] <skellat> If we botch one, we can disavow it soon enough as End of Life
[15:35] <dzho> the thing is, short support lifetimes for that stuff make people even less likely to use it, and hence, to test
[15:36] <dzho> but, I guess Ubuntu already gets far more bugs than it can digest as is
[15:36] <skellat> With the GNOME flavour not playing nice and GNOME's tight systemd integration...16.04 might see us reconsider systemd if we really start having breakages
[15:37] <dzho> and won't that be fun, with the Redhat constellation of distros going "must be you, works for us" and everyone from the *BSDs to the proprietary OSen and mobile folks going "haha Linux"
[15:38] <skellat> We could always rebase to BSD :-)
[15:38]  * skellat starts giggling
[15:38] <dzho> which would get back to sabdfl's apple-wannabe fetish
[15:40] <skellat> Just did a dist-upgrade on my Jessie box...since when is there a vlc-plugin-samba package?
[15:40] <dzho> hahaha
[15:40] <dzho> oh
[15:40] <dzho> I guess that makes sense
[15:40] <dzho> or . . . does it?
[15:40] <dzho> hmmm.
[15:40] <skellat> 2.2.0~pre3-1
[15:41] <dzho> oh, right.
[15:41]  * dzho was getting vlc and vnc mixed up
[15:41] <skellat> I don't remember VLC having a samba plugin before
[15:43] <skellat> And packages.d.o says it didn't exist in Wheezy
[15:43] <skellat> Hunh
[15:44] <skellat> Must be people approaching samba-like shares as a new-fangled, in their view, way to share media files
[15:45]  * skellat goes to answer the door, the doorbell just rang
[16:51]  * skellat heads out to pay bills and visit township hall
[19:16] <Unit193> Shorter does kind of make sense though, the people using them tend to upgrade more anyway.  I don't really see them going back to upstart, means re-picking up systemd-shim and keeping it up to par with systemd proper.  It's only going to get harder to use non-systemd Linux. :/