=== doko_ is now known as doko
=== chiluk` is now known as chiluk
* slangasek waves15:02
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Oct  9 15:03:58 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.15:03
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick15:03
slangasek[TOPIC] Lightning round15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
slangasek$ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)15:04
slangasekcaribou jodh cjwatson slangasek doko infinity stgraber sil2100 robru barry mvo bdmurray bhuey15:04
slangasekno caribou this morning15:04
slangasekjodh: care to start us off?15:04
jodh* system-image:15:04
jodh  - Fixed missing /home issue.15:04
jodh  - Rewrote system-image-upgrader in python (needs testing).15:04
jodh  - Enabled cloud-init.15:04
jodh  - Testing, testing, testing.15:04
slangasekis the new system-image-upgrader in the image now?15:05
infinityWas that in shell before?15:05
jodhslangasek: not yet - we're waiting to get the image into a stable state so we can test it :)15:05
jodhinfinity: yeah15:05
slangasekjodh: oh.  what's "stable"?15:05
jodhslangasek: bootable with network, etc :)15:06
infinityjodh: What was the argument for making it use a heavier interpreter?  shell just ran out of tricks?15:06
mvolike that it actually boots *cough*15:06
jodhinfinity: it had to be as it was running in the initramfs way back then.15:06
infinityjodh: Ahh, it's moved out of the initrd?  Kay.  That makes a bit more sense, I guess.15:06
mvoinfinity: json parsing in sh is not great15:06
stgrabermvo: come on, my greps were totally fine at parsing json ;)15:07
slangasekI just use jsonsh15:07
infinitys/ in sh.*//15:07
dokowrite a shell plugin15:07
mvostgraber: heh :) right - I must say it worked just fine :)15:07
slangasekimported as an environment function15:08
slangasekcjwatson: help come save us15:08
stgraberactually, the original environment for system-image-upgrader was android busybox with any binary you need having to be statically linked as there's no C library in that environment...15:08
cjwatsonA couple of hours of patch piloting.15:08
cjwatsonUpgraded iprutils to
cjwatsonFixed grub-installer bug 1376973 on ppc64el, caused by grub-ieee1275.postinst improvements.15:08
ubottubug 1376973 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "ppc64el: The 'grub-ieee1275' package failed to install" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137697315:08
cjwatsonChased down a couple of lost copies due to Launchpad librarian outage.15:08
cjwatsonTested man-db SRU (bug 1372673).15:08
ubottubug 1372673 in man-db (Ubuntu Trusty) "excessive debconf use when triggered" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137267315:08
cjwatsonSome more work on a native D-Bus interface for click.  Split https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/click/info-extension/+merge/237385 out from this.  Still in progress.15:08
cjwatsonReviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/phablet-tools/clickbuddy-with-sessions/+merge/237477.15:08
cjwatsonUpgraded OpenSSH to 6.7p1, released earlier this week.  Spent a while shoehorning the upstream regression test suite into autopkgtest, which was long overdue.  Some work on getting interoperability tests to work (including changes to putty and twisted), though this isn't all in place yet.15:08
mvoslangasek: thanks, I was not aware of this one15:08
cjwatsonLots of odds and ends of support, freeze upload reviews, etc.15:08
cjwatsonsorry, buried in another window15:08
slangasekmvo: oh, if jsonsh is actually a thing, I apologize ;)15:09
cjwatsonslangasek: jq I think15:09
mvoslangasek: yeah, there is jshon!15:09
slangasek * working on an embargoed security update; more details later!15:10
slangasek * tinkering yesterday with system-image server due to utf8 breakage (ubuntu-core images broke the world)15:10
slangasek * working to get click core apps split into a custom tarball, so that they're installed by default for community images but not for krillin15:10
slangasek * scheduling interviews this week for the open role15:10
infinityHuh, jq looks handy.15:10
slangasek * other stuff I've forgotten15:10
slangasekdoko: your turn15:10
doko- Python 3.4.2!15:10
doko- bash update, and preparing a test rebuild with a non-essential bash15:10
doko- prepare gdb and hardening-wrapper trusty SRUs15:10
doko- again, a lot of ftbfs nagging, fixing, syncing15:10
doko- GCC 4.9 update (will prepare one more for 14.10, not yet 4.9.2)15:10
doko- llvm merges and updates15:10
doko- gdb 7.8 branch updates15:10
doko- openjdk-8 update15:10
doko- libtool-bin split NMUs15:10
infinity- queue reviews15:11
infinity- updated a bunch of ppc packages15:11
infinity- more queue reviews15:11
infinity- experimented with powerpc on sapphire15:11
infinity- working on fixing up all the cross-toolchain stuff15:11
infinity- kernel SRU wrangling15:11
infinity- stuff and things15:11
slangasekdoko: hmm, why a test rebuild with non-essential bash?  Are you doing this against Debian or Ubuntu?15:11
sil2100My turn?15:11
stgrabersil2100: yeah, go ahead, I'm not supposed to be here :)15:11
sil2100Ah ;)15:11
sil2100- Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails15:12
sil2100- CI Train maintenance and features:15:12
sil2100  * Not much free cycles to finish up existing branches15:12
sil2100  * Tweaking the unit tests for the dual-landing publishing15:12
sil2100  * In-preprod tests of dual landing mode15:12
sil2100  * Looking into an issue with sync silos build progress tracking15:12
dokoslangasek, I can't currently in Ubuntu, pending some action from wgrant. so Debian it will be15:12
sil2100- Patch pilot duty:15:12
sil2100  * Commenting on bug-1284111 MR for ristretto15:12
sil2100  * Checking the eiciel release bug and patches, changing it to a FFe15:12
sil2100  * Some clean-up on bugs15:12
sil2100- Writing CI Train landing process documentation15:12
sil2100- Updating the NewbieGuide for trainguards regarding the sync functionality15:12
dokowhy? to make the bash usage explit15:12
sil2100- Coordinating some big landings this week15:12
sil2100- Fixes to the commitlog generation scripts to accomodate changes to the spreadsheet15:12
dokoexplicit even15:12
sil2100- Multiple discussions on the landing process15:12
sil2100- More packaging advice and reviews15:12
bhueyPrevious week15:13
bhuey-TCK runtime work, worked on a basic lxc creation script to create that environment on a QA machine15:13
bhuey-got JCK-compiler/devtools working perfectly across precise/trusty/utopic15:13
bhuey-got JCK-runtime working but still need configuration15:13
bhueyLast week15:13
bhuey-learned about Replaces: and Breaks:, fixed LP: #135907815:13
bhuey-compiled libphonenumber and regenerate results to close LP: #136668515:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1359078 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "package openjdk-7-jdk 7u55-2.4.7-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-i386/src.zip', which is also in package openjdk-7-source 7u55-2.4.7-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135907815:13
bhueyThis week15:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1366685 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu Utopic) "libphonenumber fails to build on arm64" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136668515:13
bhuey-create a branch for the TCK container environment, https://code.launchpad.net/~bill-huey/+junk/lxc-tck-script15:13
bhuey-move to icedtea7-2.5.3, resolved a number of patch conflicts. Got clean compile but I need to update a few patches to fix build issues with jamvm15:13
bhuey-focus on applying the latest security update15:13
slangasekdoko: ok, well I was going to say that it makes no sense to do this only in Ubuntu and *should* be done against Debian ;)15:14
barryrobru around?15:14
slangasekdoko: but also that I think the first step should be moving bash from essential to build-essential, which doesn't require any rebuild tests15:15
cjwatsonI still think a test rebuild won't show up very much15:15
infinityMost of the problems will be runtime, not buildtime.15:15
cjwatsonas soon as you have something that does need to (build-)depends: bash, then all failures above that will become invisible15:15
slangasekrobru's on vac15:15
slangasekbarry: your turn15:15
cjwatsonthings like checkbashisms seem like a better way to scan for this15:15
barrytrainguarding, monkeypushing, spreadsh*ting, dashboardsurfing, wikiwhacking15:15
barrysystem-image: LP: #1373467.  internal discussions and conference calls.15:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1373467 in Ubuntu system image "Support config.d directory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137346715:15
barrydebuntu: LP: #1376736 and pycurl 7.19.5-2ubuntu1.15:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1376736 in pycurl (Ubuntu) "[FFe] update to pycurl 7.19.5" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137673615:15
slangasekcjwatson: by this point, checkbashisms is probably moot and what we really need to scan for is #!/bin/bash15:16
cjwatsonwell either way yeah15:16
cjwatsonalso of course SHELL = /bin/bash etc.15:16
dokoyep, I'll do that first then15:16
infinityScanning for #!/bin/bash will catch most, and then you have the pain of wading through a grep of "bash .*" and filtering out everything that's a documentation string instead of someone calling a script with bash.15:16
cjwatsonand a ton of things where autotools likes to use bash if it can find it15:17
slangasekbut of course, SHELL = /bin/bash is only at build time, which again is why I think that, given that this is severable we should treat it separately15:17
slangasekmvo: your turn15:17
mvoShort week, friday was a public holiday in germany15:17
mvo- Cve-CVE-2014-7206 (precise, trusty, utopic, wheezy) symlink attack15:17
mvo- Debug/fix Bug#764442 and check for possible security implications15:17
mvo- Review/merge donkult/feature/_apt_for_partial15:17
mvo- Review/merge patch for Bug#76446715:17
mvo- Work on feature/expected-size (ensure we fail if more than max.15:17
mvo  data is written)15:17
ubottu** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2014-7206)15:17
mvo- Work on feature/acq-trans15:17
mvo- make app stop on remove in lp:~mvo/click/lp1232130-kill-on-remove-2,15:17
mvo  (tricky as ubuntu-app-stop needs the session bus)15:17
mvo- add click info --remote to get details about a click15:17
mvo  (lp:~mvo/click/repository)15:17
mvo- add click (sso) login command (lp:~mvo/click/sso)15:18
mvo- Merge acquire+sso (lp:~mvo/click/sso+acquire) but not useful yet15:18
mvo  because public.apps.ubuntu.com has a gnutls issue (MP pending)15:18
mvo- Review/merge lp:~cjwatson/click/info-extension15:18
mvo- review lp:~cwarner/unattended-upgrades/whitelisting15:18
mvo- Add --keyboard-layout option to create-ubuntu-core-image.py15:18
mvo- Build the system-image without recommends15:18
mvo- Fixes in the system-image seed15:18
mvo- Create ssh host keys in create-ubuntu-core-image.py (first boot not15:18
mvo  a option due to insufficient entropy, thanks Colin!)15:18
slangasekoh, that reminds me, no one's mentioned yet - this coming Monday is a bank holiday in the US, we're celebrating Canadian Thanksgiving15:18
mvo- Debug/fix /userdata/cache creation15:18
mvo- Ensure /etc/hosts has sensible defaults15:18
mvo- Ensure dbus machie-id is available via ExecStartPre line in systemd unit15:18
mvo- lp:~mvo/livecd-rootfs/no-recommends-for-system-image15:18
mvo- lp:~mvo/livecd-rootfs/system-image-include-hosts15:18
mvo- Debug boot problem (still in progress)15:18
infinitymvo: Your "short weeks" make me feel very inadequate.15:18
infinityslangasek: You're doing what now?15:18
slangasekinfinity: you didn't know we celebrate Canadian Thanksgiving?15:19
infinityslangasek: (And yeah, remind me that I need to take a swap day for that)15:19
barryinfinity: isn't every week a shorts week?  oh wait, we're not talking about pants15:19
mvoinfinity: haha, it was actually a long week with a day off :)15:19
slangasekinfinity: though down here, we call it Peter Falk Day15:19
barryslangasek: yeah, me too15:20
bdmurraylanded daisy r541: daisy/retracer.py: workaround apport AssertionError when retracing a crash with an invalid key15:20
bdmurrayr453 daisy/submit.py: return bad response for crash reports that cause a memory error when trying to decode them15:20
bdmurrayupdated oopsrepository and daisy to prevent submission of duplicate crash reports from the same system15:20
bdmurrayupdated daisy-charm to run oopsrepository's schema.py so that new column families are created15:20
bdmurraysearched for OOPSes with corrupt COREs in the Error Tracker that can be removed15:20
bdmurraymodified accepted CORE reviewer to mark crashes w/o a package, release or executable path for deletion15:20
bdmurrayinvestigation into not receiving crash notifications from Trusty UVT machine15:20
bdmurrayuploaded update-notifier crash notification race condition (file not writable yet) fix15:20
bdmurrayuploaded Trusty SRU fix for LP: #1378134 regarding crash notifications15:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1378134 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Trusty) "update-notifier crash detection checks for writable crash files" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137813415:20
bdmurraynvestigation into status of apport and whoopsie smoke tests (passing!)15:20
bdmurrayresearch into RTM crashes failure to retrace this is due to (LP: #1362496)15:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1362496 in base-files (Ubuntu-rtm 14.09) "LSB release and /etc/os-release still say "Utopic", needs to be RTM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136249615:20
bdmurraydiscussion with evan and pitti regarding crash reporting for click packages15:20
bdmurraySRU verification and release of fix for apport bug LP: #135457115:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1354571 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "apport-retrace ignores warnings from gdb" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135457115:20
bdmurrayuploaded utopic curl bug fix for LP: #137566315:20
bdmurrayuploaded apport fixes for LP: #1376374, LP: #134556915:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1375663 in curl (Ubuntu) "curl handles EINTR wrong" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137566315:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1376374 in apport (Ubuntu) "whoopsie-upload-all will run hooks on a corrupt crash file multiple times" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137637415:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1345569 in apport (Ubuntu) "recoverable_problem crashed with ValueError in add_proc_info(): invalid process" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134556915:20
bdmurrayAnd I'm actually taking tomorrow not Monday off.15:21
bdmurray✔ done15:21
slangasekno Peter Falk movies for you15:21
slangasekbhuey: hi15:21
bhueyslangasek: hey15:21
slangasekbhuey: oh, you went earlier, didn't you15:22
slangasekyou were out of order! throwing me off :)15:22
slangasekOk.  Any questions from anyone re: status?15:22
barryslangasek: i have princess bride and made in my netflix queue15:23
slangasekany more Columbo jokes?15:23
slangasekbarry: haha15:23
bdmurraycjwatson: I've heard that you did some researchin into bug 1362496 and changing base-files?15:23
ubottubug 1362496 in base-files (Ubuntu-rtm 14.09) "LSB release and /etc/os-release still say "Utopic", needs to be RTM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136249615:23
slangasekbarry: we seem to be the only two finding this funny15:23
cjwatsonbdmurray: → infinity really; the issue is that a bunch of packages conditionalise on lsb_release at build time, and we can't just make a bunch of stuff fail to build or worse even misbuild just before RTM15:24
barryslangasek: we're the only ones getting falked i guess15:24
cjwatsoneven though it's ugly it's safer to work around it elsewhere for now15:24
bdmurraywith the hope of doing the less ugly thing later?15:24
cjwatsonbasically I looked into it sufficiently to decide that it was too scary at the moment15:24
slangasekconditionalize on lsb_release > project to port these to dpkg-vendor?15:25
bdmurraycjwatson: okay, that wasn't clear from the information in the bug report15:25
infinitybdmurray: To be fair, my hope is that "later", phone releases *are* based on stable Ubuntu releases, and not massive forks, but I get the impression that utopia won't exist for a while. :(15:25
cjwatsonslangasek: dpkg-vendor doesn't give you series information15:25
cjwatsonI think this should go in the derived distro post-mortem when we do one of those15:26
infinitybdmurray: But the massive engineering burden in maintaining two parallel distros is something we can't keep up forever either.15:26
slangasekthe current problem is that nothing on RTM is retracing because apport doesn't like it; that's a critical problem15:28
cjwatsondoes apport use os-release in preference to lsb-release?15:28
slangasekso we need a short-term solution15:28
cjwatsonit *is* possible that we could change JUST os-release, I think15:29
slangasekI think pitti implied that it does, on the bug log15:29
cjwatsonI still think it probably needs an archive grep for safety15:29
cjwatsonis that Canonistack instance with the archive search engine still up somewhere?15:29
bdmurraythat's the change to apport that would work and it mentions "This is read from /etc/os-release, or if that doesn't exist..."15:29
infinitybdmurray: That works too.15:29
cjwatsonI've lost the URL15:29
slangasekcjwatson, infinity: btw, "derived distribution post-mortem" added to the sprint agenda15:30
cjwatsonoh thanks15:30
bdmurrayso it looks to me like apport prefers /etc/os-release15:31
LaneyI shut it down because it was giving incomplete results, which is misleading15:31
LaneyNeed time to resurrect15:31
cjwatsoninfinity: would you be happier with just an os-release change?  I do still think we need to search for it somehow15:31
cjwatsonLaney: how long would that take?15:32
LaneyDon't know, sorry, I didn't even really look into what the problem was15:32
slangasekmaybe you just want to run an instance of the security team's archive grep as a one-off?15:32
Laneyjdstrand can do archive greps, advise doing that for now15:32
slangasekas they have well-exercised tooling for unpacking the world and grepping it15:33
bdmurrayI had that setup at one point in time too15:33
LaneySprint might be a good time to go away and try to fix it15:33
Laney(said everyone ever)15:33
infinitycjwatson: I think that would still need a grep, but I bet the hits for 'os-release' in the entire distro will be only a few, and hopefully mostly irrelevant.15:34
slangasekbdmurray: can you do that archive grep for os-release, and we'll discuss (w/ infinity, cjwatson) the findings if necessary?15:35
bdmurrayslangasek: yes, but it'd be utopic not the rtm archive15:36
infinitybdmurray: Close enough.15:36
slangasekbdmurray: if that's the easiest for you to run, JFDI and we can pare down the results afterwards15:36
infinityMy guess is that you'll find a reference or two in systemd and maybe GNOME, and then our own tools (like apport) that opportunistically started looking at it.15:37
infinityAnd none of those would be cause for concern.15:37
slangasek(I don't expect there to be any *new* uses of os-release in rtm that we care about)15:37
infinityBut definitely want to be sure.15:37
slangasek[TOPIC] AOB15:39
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
slangasekanything else under "general business"?15:39
slangasekas mentioned, Monday's a holiday for US and Canada15:39
bdmurraybug 1265192 - cjwatson will you be looking at it?15:39
ubottubug 1265192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/126519215:39
slangasekand next week is Plumbers/Kontinental Kernel Kongress15:39
cjwatsonbdmurray: yeah, on my "RSN" todo15:39
slangasekso we're going to be a bit skeleton crew for the next week15:39
slangasek[TOPIC] click native-dbus15:40
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: click native-dbus
slangasekin the meantime, trying to get us back in the rhythm of having presentations at the meetings15:41
cjwatsonyeah, apparently I stepped back slowest15:41
slangasekcjwatson is going to talk a bit about the work he's doing with click's "native dbus" support15:41
* sil2100 readies his eyes15:41
cjwatsonok, so I've been working on adding a native D-Bus interface to click, aiming to replace its use of PackageKit15:41
cjwatsonup to now we've got away with relying on PK (mostly pkcon, its CLI client) for this15:42
cjwatsonunfortunately PK upstream is about to drop plugin support, which is going to kick the chair-legs out from under us in the V cycle15:42
cjwatsoncf. http://blog.tenstral.net/2014/09/listaller-back-to-the-future.html15:42
dokoslangasek, one more thing for AOB, are the tutorial/workshop proposals for the sprint decided?15:42
cjwatsonI'd always intended to have a more natural native interface anyway - using PK was expedient at the time, but it has some assumptions that don't *quite* fit, esp. for command-line use15:42
cjwatsonthings like the weird way you have to figure out IDs in order to remove packages, for instance15:42
slangasekdoko: I haven't heard15:43
cjwatsonwe also don't actually need the fancier things we get from PK, really, like searching both apt and click in a single view15:43
cjwatsongiven that we're trying to make click work on the server now, we need a nice CLI, and this is just forcing the issue for us.15:43
cjwatsonso, I've been working on adding a native service.  Vala makes this quite nice and this broadly seems to let me install and remove packages via dbus-send15:43
cjwatson  $ wc -l lib/click/dbus-*.vala15:43
cjwatson     66 lib/click/dbus-interface.vala15:43
cjwatson    296 lib/click/dbus-service.vala15:43
cjwatson    362 total15:43
cjwatsonit's basically com.ubuntu.Click.{InstallFile,RemovePackage} right now15:44
cjwatsonthe next thing is to have click notice when it's being called from its own service.  if not, it'll call itself under the hood, and the service will detect the calling user15:44
cjwatsonthat way, rather than needing to do:15:44
cjwatson  pkcon install-local foo.click15:44
cjwatson  sudo click install --user=$USER foo.click15:44
cjwatsonyou'll be able to just do:15:44
cjwatson  click install foo.click15:45
cjwatsonMichael has been working on a companion to this, package acquisition support from the store or from URLs15:45
cjwatsoncombining these, you'll be able to do:15:45
cjwatson  click install foo15:45
cjwatson  click install http://example.org/foo.click15:45
cjwatson(conditional on signing etc.)15:45
cjwatsonthe PK plugin will stick around for a while, not least because unity-scope-click is relying on it - I want a graceful transition.  but its days are numbered15:45
cjwatsonthat's it, any questions?15:45
mvois there a branch available to play with it yet :) ?15:46
cjwatsonwill try to get that up by tomorrow - I want to at least sketch the client side to make sure it works properly15:46
* mvo nods15:47
mvono real rush from my side, I'm just curious about it15:47
cjwatsonyeah, I need to finish it before the release rush starts anyway otherwise it'll fall by the wayside15:47
* mvo nods again15:48
slangasekno other questions from me15:50
slangaseksounds really straightforward and awesome15:50
slangasekwhat's the ratio of lines of vala to lines of test code? :)15:50
cjwatsoner cough ask me that next week :P15:50
cjwatsonit will be unit-tested somehow but I didn't exactly TDD it15:51
barryvala seems cool15:51
infinityCool, but a bit on the scary magic side too.15:52
slangasekis there an idiomatic test harness for testing vala, or does one just use a generic one for C-ish things?15:52
mvoits interessting, sometimes I wish for a bit more documentation15:52
cjwatsonclick in general has about a 1.3:1 ratio of test code to code under test15:52
infinityCompilers that compile to other languages so you can have a compiler in your compiler tend to have some of the most fascinating misfeatures.15:52
cjwatsonslangasek: click uses its own entertaining harness15:52
cjwatsonit's perhaps worth a talk by itself, though I've mentioned it around here before15:52
cjwatsonwe generate LD_PRELOAD modules on the fly which allow Python methods to stand in as mocks for C functions15:53
slangasekinfinity: http://www.yodawgyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/xzibit-yo-dawg-i-heard-you-like-math.jpg15:53
cjwatsonand then indeed you just treat Vala like C15:53
slangasekcjwatson: ah, so this would be integrated with the existing click harness, sure15:53
cjwatsonit's ... not perfect15:53
cjwatsonbut it does the job if you're careful15:53
cjwatsonusing ctypes for it was a bad idea15:54
slangasekany other questions?15:54
infinitys/for it //15:54
cjwatsonwhat it really needs is the other half of pygobject exposed so that it can marshal things that way15:54
cjwatsonsince it's already relying on gobject-introspection15:54
infinityMentions of python ctypes are a PTSD trigger for me.15:54
cjwatsoninfinity: I didn't realise it wasn't properly 64-bit clean!  I mean for goodness' sake it's 201415:54
cjwatsonbut by the time I realised that I'd already sunk several days into it ...15:55
infinitycjwatson: It is, indeed, 2014.  Say, how do you feel about threads? :)15:55
infinitySomewhere, there's a kettle screaming your name.15:56
slangasekbut, but.  we have to do *something* with all that yak wool15:56
cjwatsoncome back to me when somebody proves a pthreads program correct15:56
infinitycjwatson: Much easier to prove them 99% not incorrect.15:56
infinitycjwatson: I call it faith-based programming.15:56
cjwatsonit's the 1% that worries me :)15:56
slangasekinfinity: which is better than faith-based debugging, where you gather the community and everyone lays hands on the laptop lid15:57
slangasekok.  done here? :)15:57
cjwatsongenerally Vala has been fine for me though.  I gather it's scary if you pile on the features too much, but for what I'm doing it's easy enough and it's nice to be able to look at its compiled code15:58
infinityslangasek: Keep your weird oils off my laptop.15:58
cjwatsonyep, I think so15:58
infinitycjwatson: How prety (or not) is the intermediate code?15:58
slangasekcjwatson: thanks for filling us in on this cool bit of work15:58
slangaseky'all can keep talking, but some of us have other meetings to get to ;)15:58
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Oct  9 15:58:52 2014 UTC.15:58
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-09-15.03.moin.txt15:58
cjwatsoninfinity: well it's compiled, but it's not unreadably terrible15:58
* mvo waves15:59
infinitycjwatson: I haven't looked at it in many years, but it used to be pretty unreadable without a pass through several filters.15:59
cjwatsoninfinity: e.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com/8527605/ for lib/click/database.vala15:59
cjwatsonlots of _tmpN_15:59
cjwatsonbut you can see the structure15:59
infinitycjwatson: Ahh, but it at least looks like it's had some abuse with indent(1).16:00
infinitycjwatson: This is progress.16:00
cjwatsonthat's 834 lines of actual source, 4232 of C16:00
cjwatsonand TBH, when I was writing it out by hand with all the GError handling you need, it wasn't far short of that anyway16:01
cjwatsongobjecty code in C is pretty verbose16:01
infinitycjwatson: Yeah, it looks a fair bit cleaner than the vala I remember.  Either that's luck of the bits you're using, or it's improved a fair bit.16:01
infinitycjwatson: It used to look like a CompSci student's first java project.  Skeletons for dozens of functions you'll never actually use, formatted by a toddler on acid, etc.16:02
* infinity unmeetings.16:05
jdstrandsorry I was in a meeting16:10
jdstranddo I need to do something for someone?16:10
jdstrandLaney, slangasek: ^16:11
slangasekjdstrand: no, we were just discussing methods to grep the archive for a string, and "jdstrand-rpc" was mentioned ;)16:56
jdstrandslangasek: yeah, it is a pretty slow round trip call, but it is available :)17:02
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davmor2IdleOne: seems you have a fan20:10
IdleOnedavmor2: I'm just that lovable :)23:33
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