[00:00] <Unit193> https://unit193.net/xubuntu/es/ln-idp35527212.html so nope.  Alright, seems fine.
[00:03] <bluesabre> yay, we were productive :)
[00:05]  * bluesabre high fives Unit193
[00:07] <Unit193> :P
[09:41] <ochosi> Unit193: i've heard about that hamster, guess i'll have to take a look to see what it is all about
[09:43] <ochosi> bbl
[12:20] <knome> so, looked at refreshing the mirror list on the download page with lyz yesterday
[12:20] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mirrors
[12:20] <knome> there's a draft email, and a proposal of the new mirror list
[12:21] <knome> comments are welcome
[12:24] <elfy> looks ok to me - I assume you'll not be sending the xx :)
[12:24] <knome> hehe, nope :)
[12:24] <elfy> :)
[12:25] <knome> just a placeholder for whoever sends the mail
[12:26] <elfy> imo should probably come from XPL 
[12:29] <knome> i don't think that's necessary, but we could CC simon if we want it to be more official
[12:30] <elfy> yep - not that bothered - was just a comment :)
[12:30] <ochosi> feel free to send it, i agree that it's not necessary that i do that
[12:30] <knome> yeah
[12:30] <ochosi> otherwise i'd have to take care of all "official" business, and what would the other team leads be good for then :>
[12:30] <knome> yeah
[12:30] <knome> or other team members
[12:31] <knome> that's exactly what i tried to communicate when i was XPL - we can/should share the workload
[12:31] <ochosi> yup
[12:31] <knome> and people need to get privileges (with reponsibility of course)
[12:31] <ochosi> hierarchies should never be in the way of getting stuff done
[12:32] <knome> absolutely
[12:32] <knome> or drag getting them done
[12:33] <elfy> here's something that people can share the workload for 
[12:33] <elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
[12:34] <elfy> on a slightly more serious note - can anyone think of a reason to bother calling next week?
[12:35] <ochosi> it's not a lot of work to do so and if we stop bothering now, why bother next time?
[12:35] <ochosi> basically you can reduce your workload there by recycling a previous email
[12:36] <elfy> well - that's probably the point I'm making - why bother next time either
[12:42] <knome> elfy, this has been said n time before, but as i see it, it's just the LTS+1 release that is quieter
[12:43] <knome> and i agree that we need a better, more structured and supported QA cycle for 15.04
[12:43] <knome> how to achieve more QA results with that is a mystery to me, but we should work on it *somehow*
[12:44] <knome> the incentives program is a good start
[12:52] <elfy> knome: LTS+1 might well be quieter - that's not a reason for people in -team to not bother - all that does is make whoever is QA lead feel worthless
[12:52] <elfy> and quite frankly atm it may well be someone else feeling that way after this cycle
[12:53] <elfy> because if QA cannot rely on -team to test - then it's really all rather pointless
[12:53] <knome> elfy, i'm not saying it's any reason, or that it can't create negative feelings
[12:54] <knome> while i think -team should be there to test if it's needed, i'd just so much rather would change that sentence to "if QA cannot rely on the community testing"
[12:54] <elfy> sorry - don't agree
[12:55] <knome> because really, the -team already does this and that and in the long run, it's unsustainable to rely on them doing the testing as well
[12:55] <knome> note, i'm not saying -team shouldn't do any testing at all
[12:55] <elfy> it's team that puts it together and says "Hey, look what we've got for everyone" 
[12:55] <knome> just that they shouldn't be the ones doing the heavy lifting
[12:55] <elfy> knome: from where I stand it should be team + everyone else
[12:56] <elfy> 30 minutes at a milestone
[12:56] <knome> sure, team should be the group that does the preliminary testing
[12:56] <knome> but the team cannot conduct enough testing to be "trustworthy"
[12:56] <elfy> that isn't the point
[12:57] <knome> and what i mean with that is that if 10 people test an OS and it works with them, it's by no means enough to know that there aren't critical bugs
[12:57] <elfy> and if it is the point then we should not mark 14.10 as ready for release as it's been tested by 3 or 4 people as far as I can tell
[12:57] <knome> i know it's not the main point, but it's something that we have to keep in mind
[12:57] <knome> elfy, that's fair to say.
[12:58] <knome> elfy, otoh, other flavors (or ubuntu desktop!) aren't tested by many more people (at least generally, i don't have the exact statistics for this cycle)
[13:00] <knome> elfy, what's the level of testing you would expect from team?
[13:00] <knome> elfy, one test per milestone per member?
[13:01] <knome> elfy, and would that be a reason to expire members from the -team?
[13:02] <knome> i'm asking this because if we want to create any (even loose) rules, we have to have some kind of goal in our head
[13:02] <elfy> ubuntu desktop has the full weight of all the auto testing and a bunch of people working on it 
[13:03] <elfy> not sure why you'd include that - and tbh I don't care much about other flavours
[13:03] <knome> that's a great asset, but even if we had the automated testing, we'd still need to do manual tests
[13:03] <knome> i'm just doing a comparison
[13:03] <elfy> and as far as team is concerned - if I've actually had to go out of my way to ask team seperately - then to not do so is just ignoring me 
[13:04] <elfy> which is what happened
[13:04] <knome> of course it's not great to compare with other products that are as "badly" tested, but it proves something
[13:04] <knome> but what's the level of testing we are expecting from the team?
[13:04] <elfy> when asked is probably a good place to start 
[13:04] <knome> one test when asked?
[13:05] <knome> or fill in the blanks when asked?
[13:05] <elfy> well I've tried both 
[13:06] <elfy> got the same result
[13:06] <knome> no, i mean when you ask the team to test
[13:06] <knome> what do you expect them to do? run a test per person? or run all the tests that are still not done?
[13:06] <elfy> run at least one
[13:06] <knome> or run as many tests as they can?
[13:07] <elfy> and report things if they have - we've got one I saw saying they'd installed \o/ 
[13:07] <elfy> not reporting it though
[13:08] <knome> that's a different problem, and with that i completely agree
[13:08] <elfy> I'll say more at the beginning of next cycle probably 
[13:08] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-cycle
[13:10] <GridCube> :D 97% of the spanish translatio of docs is done, the last 20 lines need review
[13:10] <GridCube> :)
[13:13] <slickymasterWork> grate work GridCube, thanks for that
[13:18] <bluesabre> ochosi: re https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1379710
[13:18] <bluesabre> Maybe we can consider adding a "Guest Login" button on the left or something?
[13:20] <elfy> bluesabre: why is that when you add some package that it just gets added to the bottom of whatever sub-menu it ends up in?
[13:20] <knome> elfy, you might want to join the pad :)
[13:21] <bluesabre> limitation of xdg menus
[13:21] <bluesabre> if you choose a specific order, it keeps that and everything gets appended
[13:21] <elfy> knome: I'm too depressed about the whole thing to join anything but a band of travelling minstrels wandering the wilds of Siberia wearing only a loin cloth ... 
[13:21] <knome> bluesabre, but since you can move it manually, shouldn't menulibre take care about that?
[13:21] <elfy> bluesabre: ok - thanks 
[13:21] <bluesabre> I'm going to fix that a bit in the next menulibre
[13:22] <bluesabre> knome: menulibre only runs when menulibre is running :)
[13:22] <knome> oh
[13:22] <knome> :P
[13:22] <knome> elfy, i'm honestly trying to help with it, but sure, take your time
[13:22] <elfy> bluesabre: I never really noticed before - just added Abiword back and did notice - it not being at the top :)
[13:22] <elfy> knome: I know :)
[13:22] <bluesabre> elfy: the menulibre in v is going to do several things better, and have a nice revert menu ;)
[13:22] <knome> elfy, but if you can look at it sometime before the V cycle, that'd be nice :)
[13:23] <elfy> oooh - that sounds nice bluesabre :)
[13:23] <knome> i think there are still a few bugs open .P
[13:23] <bluesabre> knome: yeah, mr bug-report-is-really-a-feature-request
[13:23] <bluesabre> :P
[13:24] <knome> bluesabre, where do you want the feature requests then :P
[13:24] <GridCube> slickymaster, there where other documents to translate right?
[13:24] <bluesabre> dunno, probably not a better place unless I use a wiki
[13:24] <bluesabre> so keep at it
[13:24] <elfy> cigarette boxes perhaps - back of :)
[13:24] <knome> at least the bug tracker supports wishlist as an importance..
[13:25] <bluesabre> yEAH
[13:25] <bluesabre> dang
[13:25] <knome> :D
[13:28] <slickymasterWork> GridCube -> http://pastebin.com/sfGcRQ9B
[13:29] <GridCube> k, thanks slickymasterWork :)
[13:29] <slickymasterWork> no
[13:30] <slickymasterWork> s/no/np GridCube 
[13:31] <GridCube> hehehe :)
[13:31] <elfy> knome: dude - stop second guessing me :p
[13:31] <knome> oops :P
[13:32] <elfy> :)
[13:32] <slickymasterWork> ah ah ah
[13:32] <slickymasterWork> it's stronger than him elfy ;)
[13:39] <knome> thanks slickymasterWork ;)
[13:41]  * slickymasterWork rejoices (first time he ever caught the grammar police) ;) 
[13:44] <knome> lol
[13:44] <slickymasterWork> ;)
[14:21] <knosys> hello
[14:23] <elfy> hi knosys 
[14:28] <knosys> hi! i am joining by trying to add some Spanish translations for Xubuntu documentation, if i can help you guys in whatever just ask and i will be happy helping in what i can
[14:30] <slickymasterWork> knosys, as I told you before on -offtopic, just pick one from http://pastebin.com/sfGcRQ9B, and start translating
[14:32] <knosys> Yes, I am on that. Im downloading documentation and getting familiarized with how user's post their suggestions
[14:35] <knome> knosys, you don't need to download the documentation to do translations
[14:35] <knome> knosys, or to look at it – it's shipped with every xubuntu release
[14:36] <knome> apart from some small changes, the body of text is exactly the same in 14.04 than what it will be oin 14.10
[14:40] <knosys> Oh then i will just switch my OS language
[14:44] <knome> ...what exactly are you looking for in the documentation?
[14:49] <knome> bbl
[14:53] <knosys> Well, there are pieces of translation that i would like to see more in detail. For example. "rm" . And thats all. So i ask myself: 'rm' what? The command? a description? What?
[14:54] <knosys> But that is all info i see, and later on the suggestions for translation's that users have submited
[14:56] <slickymasterWork> knosys, I would advise you to go to the document as is now and see the line for yourself in its context
[14:57] <knosys> Thats it slickymasterWork 
[14:58] <slickymasterWork> :)
[22:52] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i guess we'd have to add an extra button or something