[02:35] <xubuntu09w> is there anyway i can remove the mounted internal hdd icons from my desktop?
[02:43] <skellat> I'm sorry xubuntu09w but that is a question that needs to be taken to the support channel, #xubuntu, instead of here
[02:46]  * pleia2 pulling down dailys for an exciting saturday night
[03:02] <skellat> pleia2: Will said dailies leave a smoking mess, though?
[03:02] <pleia2> skellat: I don't know, will they? :)
[03:02] <skellat> I'm running 14.10 on my laptop so, as it is, nothing has gone kaboom yet
[03:02] <pleia2> that's good to hear
[16:33] <Unit193> Oh joy, validation: https://paste.unit193.net/?63de00817bedcfa5#HlGwS2YBARmbCJWtOq3AdMvKUDMsiSS6anV74To2By4=
[20:50] <Pwnna> are indicators in trusty gtk3 or gtk2?
[20:51] <ali1234> gtk3
[20:52] <Pwnna> so http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/devel/ubuntu-13.10/python/AppIndicator3-0.1.html?
[20:53] <ali1234> yes
[20:53] <Pwnna> okay
[20:56] <Pwnna> thanks!
[21:01] <Pwnna> ali1234: do you know where it searches for the icons?
[21:01] <ali1234> no idea
[21:16] <andrzejr> Pwnna, icons are provided by the indicator via libindicator
[21:17] <Pwnna> andrzejr: if i have a script, for the indicator, can i put the icons in the same directory?
[21:17] <Pwnna> http://askubuntu.com/questions/289279/what-are-the-design-guidelines-for-appindicator-icons
[21:17] <Pwnna> i see that
[21:18] <andrzejr> sorry, I don't know much about it.
[21:19] <andrzejr> the plugin itself only displays what it gets from libindicator.
[21:19] <andrzejr> no idea what happens before
[21:47] <andrzejr> guys, any idea why xubuntu 14.04 is freezing for up to several seconds on "heavy" IO load?
[21:49] <andrzejr> ("heavy" as in decompressing a large tarball or running cron)
[21:50] <andrzejr> Fresh installation but for the first time the 64bit version and with full disk encryption enabled.
[22:13] <ali1234> andrzejr: it's because ubuntu uses the deadline io scheduler, which is garbage for anything other than servers
[22:15] <ali1234> see for example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/770258
[22:18] <ali1234> the problem with deadline is that once it misses the deadline it causes a failure cascade
[22:32] <andrzejr> ali1234, I didn't have this problem on earlier versions
[22:32] <ali1234> well, i did :(
[22:33] <andrzejr> which were 32bit without encryption. Maybe that wasn't stressing the disk enough.
[22:33] <ali1234> maybe. full disk encryption is going to mean extra stress
[22:34] <ali1234> and i haven't used 32 bit since about 2008
[22:35] <andrzejr> what scheduler do you recommend? cfq or noop?
[22:35] <ali1234> depends on what type of disk you have
[22:36] <andrzejr> (afair I have seen this problem with cfq as well)
[22:36] <andrzejr> 5400rpm laptop hard drive
[22:36] <ali1234> i've heard very good things about bfq
[22:36] <ali1234> unfortunately it's not in kernel
[22:37] <andrzejr> I will try noop for a while
[22:37] <ali1234> noop literally means "don't attempt to opimize at all"
[22:38] <andrzejr> I'm ok with not optimal performance, as long as it isn't disastrous
[22:38] <ali1234> cfq might be better on a spinning disk
[22:39] <ali1234> nobody has ever been able to adequately explain why the freezes even happen
[22:39] <ali1234> but they have been a problem for a long time
[22:40] <ali1234> another way it can happen is if you hit swap
[22:41] <ali1234> eg if you accidentally open a huge image file and the viewer attempts to allocate several gigabytes of memory, this will freeze the entire system
[22:41] <ali1234> assuming you have enough swap
[22:42] <ali1234> if you press ctrl-alt-f1 it will take 15 minutes to switch to the console
[22:43] <andrzejr> I've been experimenting with that (lower swappiness etc). I don't think this is the issue.
[22:43] <ali1234> swappiness doesn't make any difference
[22:43] <ali1234> or rather it only affects what the system does when idle
[22:45] <andrzejr> the thing is, this problems occurs on fairly idle system. It's enough to run the upgrade tool and the disk activity brings the system to crawl
[22:46] <ali1234> well, that is probably because of the encryption
[22:47] <andrzejr> noop scheduler does not make much difference
[22:48] <andrzejr> not sure if that's an unrelated problem but general system performance is pretty bad at times. Even playing some flash videos can result in 1fps slideshow.
[22:50] <andrzejr> it's i5 machine with 4GB and NVidia graphics card. Currently with nouveau drivers but I've seen same behavior with NVidia drivers
[22:51] <ali1234> well, all i can say is you're lucky it runs at all with nouveau
[23:03] <andrzejr> ttyl, going to reboot the system with noautogroup to see if it makes a difference
[23:16] <skellat> ali1234: Have you been tracking the deadline/cfq debate on ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com that K has stirred up?
[23:16] <ali1234> no
[23:17] <ali1234> hahaha i love how he accidentally wrote "deadlock" instead of "deadline"
[23:18] <skellat> The Kubuntu folks are trying to force a switch from deadline to cfq for K via a udev rule in a unique way that could screw with other flavors
[23:18] <ali1234> we should support them, deadline is crap
[23:18] <skellat> Trying to pass it through via their flavor's -default-settings
[23:19] <ali1234> cfq should be the default for all of ubuntu
[23:19] <skellat> ali1234: Well, that's a case the crack testing squad needs to make as slangasek and others have been dead set on keeping deadline
[23:19] <andrzejr> so far the system booted with noautogroup works much better but I will leave it running for several days. I have a feeling the performance issues may be related to suspend/resume cycles
[23:19] <ali1234> well feel free to post my bug report from TWO YEARS AGO :)
[23:20] <ali1234> popey also has experience of this issue
[23:20] <skellat> I'm mostly trying to stay out of the fireworks
[23:20] <skellat> Multiple lists are being copied and I'm only seeing what is on the -release list
[23:21] <ali1234> i only subscribe to ubuntu-devel and xubuntu-devel
[23:21] <ali1234> and the former seems to be "ubuntu-phone" now
[23:21] <ali1234> so i don't actually bother to read it very often
[23:23] <skellat> I could have sworn the phone people had a separate list
[23:23] <ali1234> they do
[23:24] <andrzejr> hmm #1219548
[23:25] <ali1234> bug 1219548
[23:25] <ali1234> what is noautogroup?
[23:27] <andrzejr> kernel option that disables process grouping, which apparently breaks ionice
[23:27] <andrzejr> seems consistent with what I'm experiencing
[23:27] <skellat> Which was what the K folks were worried about
[23:27] <skellat> ionice & their package BALOO
[23:27] <skellat> If they can't ship baloo they're likely not shipping K 14.10
[23:27] <skellat> Or so it has been threatened
[23:28] <ali1234> my bug report is actually from three and a half years ago, when ubuntu was still using cfq
[23:28] <ali1234> i still get the freezes though
[23:28] <ali1234> so clearly switching to deadline didn't help
[23:35] <skellat> And I just heard a breaker trip on a UPS so I best investigate...
[23:36] <ali1234> anyone got a link to the udev rule? i'd like to do some long-term testing, ie change scheduler permanently
[23:37] <ali1234> arch wiki to the rescue https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives#Using_udev_for_one_device_or_HDD.2FSSD_mixed_environment
[23:45]  * bluesabre is amused
[23:45] <bluesabre> "menulibre doesn't work... I've tried using sudo..." etc... 
[23:45] <bluesabre> probably means their menus are owned by root now
[23:45] <ali1234> yeah
[23:46] <skellat> And this doesn't bode well: http://www.iuculano.it/linux/apt-get-purge-chromium/
[23:47] <ali1234> why?
[23:49] <skellat> The DD referenced as not playing nice is one of my predecessors as Ohio Leader
[23:49] <ali1234> i don't understand the significance of that
[23:51] <skellat> I break the line for Ohio Leader
[23:51] <skellat> One of my predecessors, Paul Tagliamonte, is an FTP Master Debian-side and doesn't do much Ubuntu-side
[23:52] <ali1234> what is Ohio Leader?
[23:52] <skellat> Ubuntu Ohio LoCo
[23:52] <ali1234> and what do you mean by "break the line"?
[23:53] <skellat> Meaning that I'm the first one who isn't a Debian Developer in years who has stuck with *buntu despite all the changes that have been going on
[23:53] <skellat> Though if Michael isn't playing nice upstream packaging chromium we really shouldn't sync it from Debian
[23:54] <skellat> And take however large of an Ubuntu delta we have to
[23:56] <ali1234> i don't get it... he downgraded chromium in experimental, which causes it to crash?
[23:57] <skellat> And apparently big, unexplained commits
[23:57] <ali1234> i don't like it when people write "change some stuff" as the commit message, but it's not exactly uncommon
[23:58] <brainwash> so much random talk here
[23:59] <brainwash> I've just installed the numix theme.. and windows 10 looks now fabulous