[00:52] <happyaron> Laney: can you add libkkc and ibus-kkc to input-method pkgset? I've sent the request email just now.
[06:47] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[06:47] <seb128> dpm, hey
[06:48] <seb128> dpm, the fixes for the indicator-location and content-hub translations landed on the current rtm image, if you fancy testing/confirming those later
[06:51] <dpm> seb128, cool, I've already seen the indicator-location fix working, let me test the content-hub one
[06:51] <dpm> morning all
[06:52] <seb128> dpm, the content hub might need the next langpack update, the template was incomplete so you miss translations on disk
[06:52] <dpm> ah, I see
[06:52] <seb128> I tested by exporting the .mo from launchpad and copying it manually
[06:52] <dpm> seb128, do you know if pitti is back? It'd be good to release a langpack this week
[06:52] <seb128> works here, I'm just asking to make sure somebody test on a device non hacked locally
[06:53] <seb128> dpm, those are cron-ed and updated weekly afaik?
[06:53] <larsu> dpm: he's at plumbers
[06:53] <seb128> dpm, he's ... what larsu said
[06:53] <seb128> he's around on IRC at times
[06:53] <seb128> just ask and he's likely to get back to you during the day
[06:53] <dpm> ok
[06:54] <dpm> pitti, if you happen to be around, would it be possible to arrange a touch langpacks release this week? Or give me some info on how someone could do that while you're away?
[07:01] <seb128> dpm, those happen on friday automatically no?
[07:02] <dpm> seb128, the exports should happen automatically, but I'm not sure if pitti has automated the phone langpack package builds or if he triggers them manually
[07:03] <seb128> oh ok
[07:33] <pitti> dpm: well, I'm not really "away", I just don't pay attention to IRC; email works much better this week
[07:34] <dpm> pitti, o/
[07:34] <pitti> dpm: we have automatic touch langpacks every week
[07:34] <pitti> dpm: for RTM they happen on Thursday evenings
[07:36] <dpm> pitti, cool, thanks. Are the exports from LP full exports only? I remember you requested that to wgrant, but I can still see deltas at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/14.09/+language-packs - i.e. do we need to manually request full exports before every Thursday?
[07:37] <pitti> dpm: they are not, I currently need to request them manually; I added a calendar event for that now
[07:37] <dpm> ok, gotcha
[07:51] <willcooke> morning all
[07:52] <seb128> hey willcooke
[07:52] <seb128> how are you?
[07:52] <seb128> hey pitti, how is the conf?
[07:53] <willcooke> hey seb128 - pretty good, I think my slides are "done"
[07:53] <willcooke> \o/
[07:53] <pitti> seb128: quite nice so far, thanks; I have desrt sitting next to me now, he made it :)
[07:53] <willcooke> hey desrt - you managed to get in! ;)
[07:54] <seb128> pitti, are you using windows?
[07:55] <larsu> willcooke: into germany? :P
[07:55] <larsu> willcooke: (morning)
[07:55] <pitti> seb128: yes, every day -- that's how I can see what's outside and let fresh air in
[07:55] <willcooke> larsu, ha :D
[07:55]  * larsu high-fives pitti
[07:56] <seb128> pitti, :-)
[07:56] <seb128> pitti, from another channel, <desrt> and the guy in the audience beside me is running windows
[07:56] <seb128> ;-)
[07:56] <pitti> seb128: if you mean the MS product, I believe I still have some Win7 image collecting virtual dust on my USB HDD
[07:56] <seb128> willcooke, well done on the slides!
[07:57] <seb128> pitti, yeah, I was just wondering because of that quote ^
[07:57] <willcooke> seb128, olli has checked them, but I've got to get past rickspencer3 still :)
[07:57] <seb128> I'm sure it's going to be fine!
[08:05] <Laney> hallo!
[08:06] <pitti> hey Laney
[08:07] <darkxst> hey Laney, pitti, seb128
[08:07] <Laney> hey pitti, how's DUS?
[08:07] <seb128> hey darkxst
[08:07] <Laney> what up darkxst
[08:07] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:07] <pitti> hey darkxst, how are you?
[08:07] <seb128> how are you?
[08:07] <Laney> happyaron: yeah, I usually read emails so no need to follow up with a ping :-)
[08:07] <darkxst> I'm good, but I don't like painting!
[08:07] <seb128> Laney, I published the u-s-d update, hope it's ok
[08:07] <seb128> it's in unapproved still though
[08:07] <Laney> YOU DID WHAT!!!!!!!
[08:07] <seb128> ;-)
[08:08] <Laney> that button is quite tempting eh
[08:08] <seb128> indeed
[08:08] <seb128> shame that you set up that landing
[08:08] <Laney> i'm sure somebody will review it
[08:08] <seb128> if I did it you could be waving it through unapproved
[08:08] <Laney> it's like 25 lines instead of 999999 that the other one was
[08:08] <darkxst> seb128, or Laney can you look at bug 1381297, would be good to get that through before final freeze
[08:19] <desrt> willcooke: why would i have had trouble getting in? :)
[08:19] <larsu> desrt: ceta
[08:19] <seb128> desrt, could flight to Germany and handle Frankfurt airport while sleeping
[08:19] <seb128> -,
[08:20] <desrt> it's true
[08:20] <larsu> seb128: I think he needs to be awake in order to make himself stay home. His default state is to get into a plane to FRA
[08:20] <desrt> minus the crazy guy attacking me
[08:21] <willcooke> :)
[08:21] <larsu> random thought of the day: man, GOptionContext is bad
[08:21] <desrt> larsu: it's not _that_ bad
[08:21] <larsu> desrt: it's pretty bad
[08:22] <desrt> faced with the choice of killing it off and rewriting it or giving it new life, i elected new life
[08:22] <larsu> by putting it on gapplication?
[08:22] <desrt> ya
[08:22] <desrt> it's quite workable for the sort of things that most apps want to do
[08:22] <larsu> it doesn't do most of the stuff modern command line tools need
[08:22] <desrt> bad API, sure.... but we can take care of that with the gapp wrapping we do
[08:22] <larsu> like positional arguments
[08:22] <desrt> positional args
[08:22] <larsu> or command-line structure
[08:22] <desrt> ?
[08:23] <larsu> desrt: "command-like". Think git <command> <optionsforthatcommand>
[08:23] <desrt> i added support for that recently
[08:23] <larsu> really? How does it work?
[08:24] <desrt> hm.  maybe it never landed?!
[08:24] <larsu> also, aliases would be nice. i.e., --no-color ==> --color=never, etc
[08:24] <larsu> because now you need to keep all kinds of booleans around which might conflict
[08:24] <larsu> and you never find out which one was specified last
[08:24] <larsu> man, this really is a bad api
[08:24] <larsu> desrt: I know, patches welcome
[08:24]  * larsu stops ranting already
[08:25] <desrt> i added a 'bsd mode' to goption
[08:25] <desrt> aka posixly-correct mode
[08:26] <larsu> how does that differ?
[08:26] <desrt> if you do this:
[08:26] <desrt> ./mycmd -x foo -y
[08:27] <desrt> then it stops at "foo" and treats the rest as filenames
[08:27] <desrt> including the -y
[08:27] <desrt> which can be repurposed for git-style commands by treating the filename stuff as 'the rest' and invoking a second time with the options of the subcommand
[08:27] <pitti> seb128, Laney: gnome-terminal in bzr is working fine for me
[08:27] <desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723160
[08:28] <desrt> yup -- never got committed
[08:28] <pitti> Laney: I documented dropping these two patches, forward-ported the LP: # one, and added the patch for the cwd issue
[08:28] <Laney> pitti: cool, looking forward to V
[08:28] <larsu> desrt: right, but that still leaves too much work for the application
[08:28] <seb128> pitti, k
[08:28] <desrt> larsu: i disagree
[08:28] <pitti> Laney: NB I kept 3.12.2 for now, as 3.14 needs a merge of vte (0.3.8)
[08:28] <seb128> pitti, thanks for the work
[08:28] <desrt> you need to pick the subcommand first before you know what you want to do anyway
[08:28]  * Laney nods
[08:28] <desrt> larsu: reviews welcome on that bug....
[08:28] <pitti> seb128: yay for the last item in my ~/.gconf gone except for chrome :)
[08:29] <pitti> but aside from merging vte, updating g-t from 3.12 to 3.14 should be reasonably easy
[08:29] <Laney> did the profile migration work properly?
[08:29] <larsu> desrt: why do you need a posixly correct?
[08:29] <pitti> Laney: yeah; I maded changes in 3.6 (background color, font, etc.), dist-upgraded, restarted g-t, and everywhing was correct
[08:30] <Laney> great
[08:30] <desrt> larsu: consider git for example... it has arguments to the global thing (--git-dir for example) and separately arguments to subcommands like git clean -xdf or whatever
[08:30] <desrt> so consider:
[08:30] <desrt> git --git-dir=foo clean -xdf
[08:30] <desrt> you want to be able to parse the --git-dir=foo and leave the "clean -xdf" unmodified
[08:30] <desrt> once you see "clean" you can then parse for the subcommand and get the -xdf handled
[08:31] <desrt> if you don't do the posixally-correct parsing then the -xdf will get sucked up in the first pass
[08:32] <larsu> fair enough (even though it seems like quite an edge case)
[08:32] <larsu> I'll review your patch
[08:32] <desrt> it's not an edge case: it's precisely the feature that you were complaining about being missing :p
[08:32] <desrt> it also happens to be the expected behaviour on BSD
[08:33] <desrt> (or if you set POSIXALLY_CORRECT on GNU)
[08:34] <larsu> desrt: it's not what I was complaining about. It enables a feature (global and command-specific options) for a feature I was complaining about (no proper support for commands)
[08:34] <desrt> i'm not sure how you could possibly have a better API for that
[08:35] <desrt> i don't want to feed the global information about every possibly subcommand into the parser at the start
[08:35] <desrt> i want to first discover the subcommand and then do the options only for that subcommand
[08:35] <desrt> by its natures that involves two passes...
[08:35] <desrt> *nature
[08:35] <larsu> but that messes up the help message goptioncontext spits out
[08:36] <desrt> how?
[08:36] <desrt> xxx --help : shows help for toplevels
[08:36] <desrt> xxx foo --help: shows help for 'foo' subcommand
[08:38] <larsu> desrt: of course, but you can't let it generate the xxx --help, because it doesn't label things right
[08:38] <larsu> desrt: which is why gdbus prints it's own message there
[08:38] <larsu> I'm not saying doing these kinds of things is impossible, just that it is hard
[08:38] <desrt> so let's get this patch lined up and rewrite one of our subcommand tools
[08:38] <desrt> and see what issues pop up
[08:38]  * larsu is up for that
[08:39] <larsu> desrt: in fact, I want a new gdbus, for a couple of reasons:
[08:39] <desrt> commandline parsing is just so very boring :p
[08:39] <larsu> (1) it's UI is really bad (--dest?)
[08:39] <larsu> (2) it's output could be pretty-printed and syntax highlighted
[08:39] <desrt> we should invent some quasi-uri scheme
[08:39] <larsu> (3) monitor doesn't monitor anything but signals
[08:40] <desrt> session://ca.desrt.ca/ca/desrt/dconf or so
[08:40] <larsu> I thought about that, but dismissed for another thing to learn
[08:40] <desrt> ya... monitor is bad
[08:40] <desrt> we should fix that
[08:40] <desrt> when i find myself using dbus-monitor instead you know there is a problem
[08:40] <larsu> I'd much prefer: gdbus call [-e] ca.desrt.dconf /ca/desrt/dconf ca.desrt.dconf.SomeMethod
[08:41] <larsu> desrt: ya...
[08:41] <desrt> anyway.... feel free to work on this area with my blessings :)
[08:42] <desrt> i don't expect to have a lot of time for it unfortunately
[08:42] <larsu> thanks, same here
[08:42] <desrt> but if we could get that posixly-correct patch in at least i'd be happy about that
[08:42] <larsu> we could do a session on the plane
[08:42] <desrt> we should try to get seats together
[08:42] <desrt> i can sleep on your shoulder
[08:43] <larsu> sit next to you? nah
[08:43] <larsu> :P
[08:43] <desrt> pitti is on our flight too, eh?
[08:43] <larsu> is he? Nice!
[08:43] <desrt> too bad they don't have those cool little rooms like on the train
[08:43] <larsu> they do
[08:43] <desrt> too bad they don't have them in 2nd class :p
[08:43] <larsu> just not on every plane, and they're something like $15,000
[08:44]  * desrt had a private room right at the front of the train with a view through the driver's front window yesterday
[08:44] <desrt> they give you free candy when you're in 1st
[08:44] <larsu> meanwhile, we have the "we should get rid of drivers" discussion again
[08:45] <larsu> in light of all the recent strikes
[08:45] <desrt> oh.  those kinds of drivers :)
[08:45] <desrt> strikes in situations like this are hilarious
[08:45] <larsu> situations like this?
[08:45] <desrt> when someone's job could be replaced by a machine
[08:45] <desrt> and they strike
[08:45] <larsu> but, moar money!
[09:08] <larsu> darkxst: where again did you get the idle monitor from? Current g-s-d seems to get one called gnome-idle-monitor (instead of gsd-) from libgnome-desktop
[09:30] <Laney> larsu: It comes from mutter (3.10, I believe)
[09:31] <Laney> that's what does the idle monitoring for shell, and gnome-desktop calls into that using dbus
[09:34] <larsu> Laney: weird. thanks
[09:34] <Laney> I think it's part of de-Xification
[09:35] <larsu> maybe we should have that in compiz as well then?
[09:35] <larsu> oh wait...
[09:53] <darkxst> larsu, yes as Laney said, idle-monitor was moved into mutter and abstracted so gnome-desktop doesn't have any deps on X
[09:55] <darkxst> then mutter has various backends for X, wayland etc
[09:59] <larsu> darkxst: got it. The idle monitor code in mutter seems to have changed a lot
[09:59] <larsu> darkxst: I was about to backport my changes there, but I think that doesn't make much sense
[10:02] <darkxst> larsu, right, and its a bit tangled up in other libs as well, but maybe the monitors ref could be useful
[10:03] <darkxst> g-s-d still calls via gome-desktop so the gsd-cursor snippet probably doesnt
[10:03] <larsu> right, I just noticed that as well
[10:03] <darkxst> (maybe?)
[10:05] <Laney> darkxst: did you check your gnome-session change?
[10:05] <Laney> I don't think that shell is right
[10:10] <Laney> anyway lemme fix and upload
[10:12] <darkxst> Laney, yes I tested but seems I pushed an older branch
[10:16] <darkxst> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/gnome-session/lp1381297 is what I tested
[11:16] <Laney> blerg
[11:16] <Laney> evince bumped the required gtk from 3.12 to 3.14 between .0 and .1
[12:04] <seb128> Laney, well, they already required 3.13, they just forgot to update the configure
[12:04] <seb128> see the revert of gesture use patch I added
[12:04] <Laney> blerg!
[12:05] <Laney> fixed it to use GTK_CHECK_VERSION
[12:11] <seb128> what's the point?
[12:12] <seb128> we build our evince with a known gtk, when we update gtk we drop the patch
[12:12] <seb128> or do you want upstream to have the ifdef cases and lower the requirement?
[12:12] <Laney> not for the gesture stuff, the new patch in .1
[12:12] <Laney> it's trivial to do
[12:16] <seb128> k
[12:16] <seb128> still what's the point? they don't support GTK 3.12 due to the gesture api use which is > 3.13
[12:18] <Laney> it's not for forwarding
[12:21] <Sweetsha1k> hmmm, my firefox on trusty just killed itself after hanging on a flash player fail (vs. youtube, which should be somewhat sane). After coming back, it lost all passwords ...
[12:24]  * Laney goes to the cafe for lunch, biab
[12:26] <seb128> Laney, k, enjoy lunch!
[12:27] <seb128> Sweetsha1k, instance still running locking your profile?
[12:27] <seb128> or talk to chrisccoulson, he might be able to help you
[12:27] <seb128> do you room with him next week? ;-)
[12:33] <Sweetsha1k> seb128: no, Ill room with the guy who will say: *shrugs* just use chromium ;)
[12:35] <Sweetsha1k> seb128: also: no, can be a locked profile. E.g. my cockies, extensions etc. are all still there. just the passwords are gone
[12:35] <seb128> weird
[12:36] <seb128> there might still be a file on disk that you might be able to copy over
[12:36] <seb128> dpm, hey, string translation question for you ;-)
[12:37] <seb128> dpm, do you know if there is a standard way to deal with several singular/plural forms in one string?
[12:38] <seb128> dpm, like "copy %d folder(s) and %d directory/ies"
[12:55]  * dpm thinks about it
[12:56] <larsu> don't we have ngettext for these kinds of strings?
[12:57] <dpm> seb128, hm , I'm afraid I don't know, I've never come across that, and I can't think of the best way to handle those. I think perhaps rephrase it so that it can be done in 2 sentences?
[12:57] <seb128> dpm, I think we need code cases
[12:57] <seb128> larsu, no, ngettext is for one argument
[12:57] <seb128> larsu, e.g "copy %d folder" "copy %d folders"
[12:57] <seb128> singular/plural
[12:58] <seb128> but if you have 2 arguments I don't think it can mix 1 being singular and 2 being plural
[12:58] <seb128> and all possible combinaison
[12:58] <seb128> copy 3 folders and 1 file
[12:58] <seb128> copy 3 folders and 2 files
[12:58] <seb128> copy 1 folder and 6 files
[12:58] <seb128> etc
[12:59] <larsu> you could split the string
[12:59] <seb128> split how?
[12:59] <larsu> but there's probably some weird languge for which that doesn't work
[12:59] <seb128> or you mean change the design, reword?
[12:59] <larsu> seb128: no, have two translatable string that you concatenate
[12:59] <seb128> like "copy %d folder" + "and %d files"
[13:00] <seb128> yeah
[13:00] <larsu> hehe, ya
[13:00] <larsu> (had the same example typed)
[13:00] <seb128> what if you need to change the order or words in some locales?
[13:00] <seb128> I don't think that works
[13:00] <larsu> yeah this is what I meant - it probably won't work for some language
[13:02] <seb128> I can do a complex
[13:02] <larsu> the alternative is to have 9 translatable strings :-/
[13:02] <larsu> or just do what you proposed
[13:02] <seb128> if n_files = 1 & n_folder > 1 string =
[13:02] <seb128> n_files > 1 & n_folder > 1, string =
[13:02] <seb128> etc
[13:02] <larsu> seb128: all 9 cases?
[13:03] <larsu> poor translators
[13:03] <seb128> I don't count 9
[13:03] <seb128> but 3
[13:03] <seb128> files = plural
[13:03] <seb128> folder = plural
[13:03] <seb128> both = plural
[13:03] <seb128> or none
[13:03] <larsu> 0,0 - 0,1 - 0,n - 1,0 - 1,1 - 1,n - n,0 - n,1 - n,n
[13:04] <seb128> 0,1 and 0,n are one case
[13:04] <seb128> it's "copy %d files" in ngettext
[13:04] <seb128> and 0,0 doesn't exist
[13:04] <seb128> it's a non copy
[13:05] <seb128> but yeah, then you still get quite some cases :-/
[13:05] <larsu> that can't be, that's even wrong in english: "copy 1 files"
[13:05] <seb128> no, ngettext is
[13:05] <larsu> but yeah, cross out (0,0) :)
[13:05] <seb128> "copy %d file", "copy %d files", n_files
[13:05] <seb128> one string with singular/plural forms
[13:05] <seb128> but you can indeed count that as 2 strings
[13:06] <larsu> right, but you also have the cases where you only copy directories or only files, no?
[13:06] <seb128> yeah
[13:06] <larsu> ah, now I understand
[13:06] <larsu> sorry
[13:06] <seb128> to be fair that code already sucks
[13:07] <seb128> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/gallery-app/trunk/view/head:/rc/qml/EventsOverview.qml#L67
[13:07] <seb128> it already has the 9 (or rather 8) strings
[13:07] <larsu> uh oh
[13:07] <seb128> it's just not using ngettext in the plural cases
[13:08] <seb128> so I guess I can just
[13:08] <seb128> -i18n.tr("Delete %1 photos")
[13:08] <seb128> +i18n.tr("Delete %1 photo", "Delete %1 photo", organicEventView.selection.selectedPhotosCount)
[13:08] <seb128> ups
[13:08] <seb128> the second arg misses a "s"
[13:08] <larsu> I guess, yes
[13:09] <seb128> larsu, dpm: thanks for the discussion
[13:09] <seb128> that feels suboptimal but I guess it's the only option
[13:09] <seb128> out of changing the wording
[13:09] <dpm> seb128, np, sorry I couldn't help more
[13:09] <seb128> nw!
[13:36] <mterry> Sweetshark, so libixion -- how do you want to proceed?  I like split packages in general, but not splitting it for 14.10 seemed like an option
[13:39] <Sweetshark> mterry: personally, I would go for libreoffice shipping its own bundled versions and not doing any releases of liborcus/libixion outside of that at all. At least not as long there is no clearcut request for that.
[13:39] <mterry> Sweetshark, does anyone use liborcus today?
[13:40] <Sweetshark> mterry: I am not aware of any users of liborcus besides libreoffice.
[13:41] <Sweetshark> mterry: did you see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-October/038510.html ?
[13:42] <mterry> Sweetshark, yes.  The libixion part was interesting
[13:42] <mterry> Sweetshark, it sounds like it's easiest just to punt this for now.  But I like when we can just piggyback on Debian
[13:43] <Sweetshark> mterry: yes.
[13:45] <mterry> Sweetshark, commented in MIR bug
[13:47] <Sweetshark> mterry: thanks!
[13:54] <l3on> Please, backport these patch: https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/commit/bde4e863579f05368661347bfaf55e0480e4555c
[13:54] <l3on> https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/commit/60cd7076cf885cbc421babfba44c9081ded3ad78
[13:54] <l3on> they are useful for have a '.csd' class on the windows CSDed
[13:54] <seb128> l3on, can you open a bug about that and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors?
[13:54] <l3on> seb128, sure
[13:55] <seb128> thanks
[13:57] <l3on> seb128, done https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1381546
[13:58] <seb128> l3on, thanks
[13:58] <seb128> larsu, ^ want to review that?
[13:58] <seb128> it's for next cycle anyway
[13:58] <seb128> so no need to be today
[13:58] <seb128> it might not be needed if we update gtk early in the cycle
[13:59] <l3on> I think it should be better have them now... they are really necessary to distinguish windows CSDed in themes..
[14:00] <seb128> well, we don't have proper csd support in unity in utopic
[14:00] <seb128> so I doubt theming makes a difference
[14:00] <seb128> that's work for next cycle
[14:00] <seb128> no?
[14:00] <l3on> what about non-unity desktops?
[14:00] <seb128> like?
[14:00] <l3on> gnome ?
[14:01] <seb128> they are on 3.12 and I don't think their theme is making use of those classes?
[14:02] <l3on> well I need those patch for my ubuntu-themes branch which adds support to CSD windows.. but without that patch I can't recognize which windows using GTKHEader bar have been patched in Ubuntu to use Unity borders (like Nautilus) .. that's all.
[14:04] <seb128> k
[14:04] <seb128> well I don't say it's not useful
[14:04] <seb128> it's just that it's late in the cycle for such changes
[14:04] <seb128> better to SRU that
[14:04] <seb128> it's not that important for the iso itself
[14:04] <seb128> imho
[14:06] <larsu> seb128: will do
[14:06] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[14:16] <seb128> dpm, larsu, in fact the several cases doesn't work either :/
[14:17] <larsu> why not?
[14:17] <seb128> you can't do "delete %1 photos and %2 videos" in cases
[14:17] <seb128> some locales have different cases for n=5 or =10 or between 10 and 20
[14:18] <seb128> you can't have a combinaison of photos = 5, video = 2
[14:18] <larsu> and ngettext supports those?
[14:18] <seb128> well, if you see what I mean
[14:18] <seb128> yes
[14:18] <seb128> but for 1 argument
[14:18] <larsu> right
[14:18] <seb128> you do "copy %d files"
[14:18] <seb128> and it spill the cases for your locales
[14:18] <larsu> so basically this is impossible because of combinatorical explosion
[14:18] <seb128> like [1] [2] [5] [others]
[14:18] <larsu> maybe concatenating the strings wasn't the worst idea then?
[14:18] <seb128> but it doesn't do it on substrings, or combinaisons for 2 words
[14:19] <seb128> yeah, I don't see a better way around
[14:22] <larsu> we could make mpt eat his hat and do something like: Do you want to delete the following things?
[14:22] <larsu> * %d files
[14:22] <larsu> * %d folders
[14:23] <mpt> I was just looking at the relevant part of the gettext manual an hour ago
[14:23] <Laney> I don't think gettext can do it
[14:23] <Laney> concatenating is a bad idea
[14:23] <larsu> mpt: I was joking and if I weren't, I hope you have a hat made out of chocolate
[14:23] <larsu> or something equally tasty
[14:24] <larsu> Laney: why? Are there languages that switch the order of terms in "X and Y"?
[14:24] <mpt> larsu, https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Special-cases
[14:25] <mpt> wait, wrong section
[14:25] <Laney> I don't know all languages in the world, sorry
[14:26] <larsu> Laney: you seem to know that concatenating is a bad idea, though
[14:26] <seb128> Laney, contenating sucks but it's the only option
[14:26] <seb128> that might work
[14:27] <seb128> Laney, we can also give translator comment for both halfs "that's the first/second part of that sentence"
[14:27] <seb128> and let them trick the 2 subparts
[14:27] <Laney> what if you have to put something in the first part depending on the second one?
[14:28] <seb128> you are screwed
[14:28] <seb128> but I think it's less likely than have one sentence with %1 photos and %2 videos
[14:28] <seb128> and %1 and %2 being e.g 2 and 5 which are different forms in russian
[14:29] <seb128> have->having
[14:29] <seb128> Laney, if you have a better suggestion I'm open to it though, just can't think of any
[14:29] <seb128> (out of changing the design)
[14:29] <seb128> (which is not up to me)
[14:31] <larsu> i18n is a bitch
[14:32] <larsu> seb128: I'm fine taking those csd patches. They're very unintrusive
[14:32] <seb128> larsu, thanks, can you write that on the bug?
[14:32] <seb128> l3on, ^
[14:32] <larsu> seb128: it's a tad late for this cycle though, no?
[14:32] <seb128> larsu, I was suggesting to SRU those
[14:32] <seb128> larsu, so no release surprise
[14:32] <larsu> don't know if they're that important
[14:32] <larsu> but really, they won't break anything
[14:33] <larsu> ah, okay
[14:33] <seb128> larsu, yeah, me neither, but read backlog, l3on needs them
[14:33] <seb128> larsu, so I'm open to discuss SRU
[14:33] <seb128> let's see
[14:33] <larsu> seb128: ah okay. fine by me. are you okay with just a comment?
[14:33] <seb128> larsu, yes, danke
[14:36] <l3on> ok thanks .. I see what you mean.. a SRU has more sense since we are so close to the release day ... just do not forget about that! :P :D
[14:37] <larsu> l3on: (a) seb128 doesn't forget and (b) just reping us if we should ;)
[14:38] <seb128> l3on, to be fair I'm still not convinced that csd is that important in utopic since we don't have proper support for it, neither in our default desktop or theme and we kept apps away from it mostly
[14:38] <seb128> we want proper support in for next cycle though
[14:38] <seb128> so those gtk changes, unity support, theme improvements, etc are going to land then
[14:38] <larsu> I agree
[14:38] <larsu> (for the record)
[14:39] <l3on> no problem then o/
[14:58] <Laney> seb128: does something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/8565292/ work?
[14:59] <larsu> Laney: this might have the same ordering problems as concatenating, no?
[15:00] <Laney> not sure
[15:00] <seb128> larsu, it's one string though, so less confusing
[15:00] <larsu> that's true
[15:02] <Laney> xnox: happyaron/FJKong: would that ^ work in chinese/russian?
[15:06] <FJKong> Laney: what is this?
[15:07] <Laney> Translating a string with two count variables
[15:07] <Laney> ngettext only supports you giving one
[15:07] <seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8565334/ ?
[15:07] <Laney> oh my god
[15:07] <seb128> ups
[15:07] <seb128> sorry
[15:07] <seb128> forgot .arg()
[15:08] <seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8565347/
[15:09] <seb128> BAH
[15:09] <seb128> I should read before copying
[15:09] <Laney> isn't it ...
[15:09] <Laney> yeah
[15:09] <seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8565354/
[15:09] <seb128> that one should do!
[15:10] <Laney> I think you can remove the last else case and have that one level out
[15:10] <Laney> but that's my idea, yeah
[15:13] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[15:30] <seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/gallery-app/translations-use-ngettext/+merge/238456 if you want to comment
[15:32] <Laney> ok, will do
[15:33] <seb128> thanks
[16:26] <Laney> tkamppeter: this s-c-p upload removes packagekit installation support
[16:26] <Laney> why not port to the dbus api?
[16:38] <tkamppeter> Laney, this was broken anyway, especially it tried to install a package named "samba-client" (probably Red Hat's name) and not "smbclient". It is also broken already for longer time and also discovered now, meaning that not many people hit it. As soon as upstream does the DBus API way I can put it in as SRU.
[16:39] <tkamppeter> Laney, and otherwise this package fixes a lot of Python3 transition bugs.
[16:40] <Laney> smbclient Provides: samba-client
[16:41] <Laney> Don't you want to work on the port?
[16:42] <tkamppeter> Laney, I have written a small shell script to replace gpk-install-package-name, calling
[16:43] <tkamppeter> sudo gdbus call --session --dest org.freedesktop.PackageKit --object-path /org/freedesktop/PackageKit --method org.freedesktop.PackageKit.Modify.InstallPackageNames 0 '["samba-client"]' "hide-finished,show-warnings"
[16:43] <tkamppeter> through gksu.
[16:44] <Laney> packagekit has gi bindings so you shouldn't need to call out to a script
[16:44] <tkamppeter> Laney, problem is that this D-Bus method does not recognize provides, it simply does not find samba-client.
[16:45] <tkamppeter> Laney, does packagekit have a resolver for provides?
[16:45] <Laney> Don't know, but if that's the only problem we can manage a patch to use our package name :)
[16:47] <tkamppeter> Laney, OK, will make it installing smbclient properly. Until when do I have time due to tomorrow's Final Freeze?
[16:48] <Laney> I could accept this one on the basis that it's already broken if you're going to work on the real fix
[16:48] <Laney> thanks!
[16:48] <tkamppeter> Laney, OK.
[16:49] <tkamppeter> Laney, if I do not get around with it tomorrow, I will put it out as SRU as soon as me or upstream fixes it.
[16:50] <Laney> Right, I just don't want to wait an indeterminate amount of time if possible
[16:52] <tkamppeter> Laney, you could accept the current package as it is a fix for the other bugs and has no regressions, even replacing the crash caused by the missing gpk-install-package-name replaced by skipping package installation and later, perhaps tomorrow, I will do the real fix, which will come as SRU if after release.
[16:52] <Laney> Yes, I did accept it because you said you were going to work on it, which is good enough for me
[16:53] <Laney> thanks
[16:53] <tkamppeter> Laney, thanks/
[18:54] <Masternoob> hey i just tried the daily image on my eepc t91mt but i just get a black screen with the cursor showing...i want to log a bug but i need some help to provide useful information...where do i find the needed logfiles and what information do you need?
[19:02] <Masternoob> :/
[19:14] <SonikkuAmerica> So... latest current image run in VBox causes the host system's kernel to panic, is there a bug filed?
[19:20] <Masternoob> can someone tell me where to find the unity 8 logfile?