[00:30] <Azelphur> ali1234: you happen to be around at this time of night? having a bit of a panic here
[00:30] <ali1234> okay?
[00:30] <Azelphur> ali1234: basically, there's a full drive encrypted partition on my laptop that contains my cold wallet, and it's not showing up in grub any more, and I think my cleaner threw out my paper backup
[00:30] <Azelphur> so...kinda shitting bricks
[00:30] <ali1234> sorry but... lol
[00:30] <Azelphur> yea I know, lol
[00:30] <Azelphur> but uhh, halp?
[00:31] <ali1234> i don't use full drive encryption
[00:31] <Azelphur> the partition is still there
[00:31] <ali1234> for exactly this reason
[00:31] <Azelphur> and I have the keys to decrypt the partition
[00:31] <ali1234> well the first thing you should do is unplg the hard drive and image it before you make the problem worse
[00:31] <ali1234> read only mode
[00:31] <ali1234> now
[00:31] <Azelphur> yea
[00:33] <ali1234> i can't understand why the cleaner would throw out paper wallets
[00:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: whoo, called the cleaner and she told me she moved it
[00:33] <Azelphur> thank fuck...I was panicing like hell lol
[00:33] <ali1234> did you just leave them lying around on the floor or somehting?
[00:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: not the best of places, under the bed xD
[00:33] <ali1234> if so, how do you nkow the cleaner won't steal them?
[00:33] <ali1234> could have copied them
[00:33] <Azelphur> this is the kick in the teeth to backup properly.
[00:33] <Azelphur> yea I know
[00:33] <ali1234> seriously, so many problems
[00:34] <Azelphur> not the best of solutions, I am gonna sort this first thing tomorrow, that is definitely the kick in the teeth I needed.
[00:34] <Azelphur> ali1234: and cleaner is my brothers sister, I trust her not to steal them
[00:34] <Azelphur> but yea, phew none the less :)
[00:35] <Azelphur> brothers sister...I mean brothers fiance
[00:35] <ali1234> your brother's sister... isn't that like, your sister?
[00:35] <Azelphur> haha
[00:35] <daftykins> i've only ever seen heartache from FDE users in #ubuntu
[00:36] <ali1234> yeah, same
[00:36] <ali1234> mind you, if it works, why would you even mention it?
[00:36] <Azelphur> Tomorrow I shall try and fix that partition, and then take multiple backups :)
[00:36] <ali1234> like all things, you only hear about it when it breaks
[00:36] <Azelphur> nn folks :)
[00:36] <daftykins> *nod*
[00:36] <daftykins> nn sir
[00:50] <ali1234> azelphur going to bed early, is this real life?
[00:57] <daftykins> i had to check if i was asleep
[01:01] <diddledan_> I'm not
[01:05] <daftykins> :>
[01:28] <shauno> I use FDE .. zero problems
[01:29] <diddledan_> shauno: you're on a mac
[01:30] <shauno> I'm sorry :(
[01:30] <diddledan_> :-p
[01:30] <shauno> ping me when 'the year of the linux desktop' gets here and I'll take another look :p
[01:32] <shauno> assuming I've found a way to actually boot linux on this by then :/
[01:39] <daftykins> haha
[01:40] <daftykins> shauno: really? i thought it was pretty do-able on all macbooks, using rEFInd or similar
[01:41] <shauno> if I rip my 2nd drive out so I can put a cdrom back in, yeah
[01:41] <shauno> it has to be done via bios-emulation so the gpu switching is disabled
[01:42] <daftykins> *nod*
[01:42] <shauno> because my grandmother understands gpu switching better than linux does
[01:42] <daftykins> i always found the 'ROM' qualification to be redundant, after all the vast majority of optical media people are going to encounter will be read only :>
[01:44] <shauno> at the moment, it boots, discovers the amd chip, and switches to it
[01:44] <shauno> but doesn't invoke the gpu switching stuff, so it's driving a gpu that isn't connected to anything
[01:44] <shauno> and nothing I've tried re: blacklisting will stop it
[01:45] <daftykins> AMD beside intel on-die?
[01:45] <shauno> right, one of each
[01:46] <shauno> on osx, it switches between them based on what GL routines are in use, which is snazzy
[01:47] <shauno> but you can't just start using whichever gpu takes your fancy.  you have to poke the gmux so the right one is pointed to the screen
[01:47] <daftykins> mmm, all this hybrid graphics stuff is quite funky
[01:47] <daftykins> yeah must not be too far off nvidia's optimus tech
[01:47] <shauno> which I can do from osx, and from grub, but not from linux
[01:52] <shauno> (well, I can in theory, by shoving some bytes down ioctl.  but not if I can't stop the kernel from switching to that gpu before the gmux has been told to power it, because that causes the kernel to halt)
[01:53] <daftykins> which model is this? i wasn't aware any of them had showstopping Loonix usage yet
[01:53] <shauno> well that's it, all the docs say it works fine, because it does if you boot it with bios-emulation
[01:53] <shauno> but that needs my cd drive back :(
[01:54] <shauno> if you boot with bios emulation it uses the amd gpu exclusively, because bios doesn't provide the interface to switch.  so that entire problem goes away (along with your battery heh)
[01:54] <daftykins> ah ok :)
[01:55] <daftykins> yeah i think i'd heard of some complaining about high temps and bad battery
[01:56] <shauno> that's almost certainly why.  even in osx, which has some pretty astounding power management, using the discrete gpu gets quite toasty
[02:08] <diddledan_> why do you need your cd drive for bios mode?
[02:08] <diddledan_> just boob off a usb
[02:10] <daftykins> because bootcamp i suspect
[02:11] <diddledan_> yeah bootcamp can do usb
[02:11] <shauno> because apple's efi implementation is terrible
[02:11] <shauno> you get bios emulation if you boot from an internal device
[02:12] <diddledan_> as far as it's worked for me it boots bios mode if I tell it to boot an mbr
[02:13] <diddledan_> with ubuntu dvds the default os selector lists two boot options for a usb stick - one for bios and one for efi
[02:14] <diddledan_> the efi is nicely labelled "efi boot"
[02:14] <diddledan_> so you can choose the other
[02:14] <shauno> that doesn't strike me as logical
[02:43] <shauno> just tried 14.04.1 - I do get two options, but theyre both named "efi boot"
[02:43] <diddledan_> >.<
[02:44] <daftykins> haha nice
[02:49] <shauno> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjqq0ygnxd7o5kh/IMG_2183.JPG?dl=0
[02:51] <diddledan_> how did you create the usb? it needs to be done with dd not diskutil
[02:51] <diddledan_> I _think_ that's accurate anywho
[02:54] <shauno> it was dd, yeah
[02:55] <diddledan_> in that case then I'onno
[02:55] <shauno> and I have a little faith it's written, because I get to & past grub
[02:55] <shauno> but after grub the screen switches off, and then the fans failsafe
[02:56] <shauno> (eg, hairdryer)
[03:04] <shauno> looking to see if I still have the copy of grub-efi I built
[03:05] <shauno> I find ubuntu's practically unusable because instead of my beautiful 10-line config file, it uses a small book's worth of bash nonsense
[03:06] <diddledan_> yeah, grub2 configs are pretty indecipherable
[03:06] <diddledan_> not that they need to be like that
[03:06] <shauno> they're not, that's just it
[03:07] <daftykins> another example of progress, eh?
[03:07] <diddledan_> update-grub takes an age sometimes
[03:08] <diddledan_> apt-get install foo.... lets update grub 4 times
[03:10] <shauno> eg, my grub.cfg is http://paste.ubuntu.com/8609763/
[03:10] <shauno> that I can understand :)
[03:11] <shauno> and boot.cfg is http://paste.ubuntu.com/8609765/
[03:11] <shauno> which is also perfectly readable.  even with all my attempts to get the radeon to bugger off
[03:16] <shauno> (and yes, as you can tell, I love being able to loop isos in grub2.  it makes the bootstick full of OSes remarkably sane)
[03:19]  * daftykins makes a cross with his fingers at the referneces to raring
[03:20] <daftykins> *references
[03:21] <shauno> heh, that'll be last time I was giving this a shot
[03:22] <mapps> hi all
[03:23] <shauno> I tend to have that problem  i dont remember how long ago things were until i wake up the pxe box and it offers me 8.06
[03:23] <daftykins> mornin' mapps
[03:24] <daftykins> shauno: :D
[03:24] <mapps> guessing u all havent been to sleep:P
[03:24] <shauno> mapps: whats that?
[03:24] <mapps> heh
[03:26] <daftykins> err
[03:26] <daftykins> ok my HTPC freaks me out, it just spontaneously booted
[03:26] <daftykins> i need to sleep shortly, got a friends telco engineer visit coming up
[03:26] <shauno> surely youshould be awake for that?
[03:27] <mapps> at what time:D
[03:27] <daftykins> 1:30pm \o/
[03:28] <daftykins> assuming he remembers to come to my house and post me a spare key so i can get in
[03:29] <shauno> ssh on the ipad is ugly
[03:30] <shauno> I think I'll carry on fighting with that another time.  I need to update bits for 14.04 because they never leave the kernel in the same place twice
[03:32] <shauno> (also curious to find out what happens if I move grub into the efi partition)
[03:33] <shauno> reminds me of when I figured I could install from the harddrive, to the harddrive, by making a small partition and dd'ing the iso to it.  I figured it'd just show up in the list of bootable partitions
[03:33] <shauno> turns out the mac's efi doesn't like that.  big time.
[03:35] <mapps> which ipad you got?
[03:36] <shauno> 2, I think
[03:36] <shauno> it's old and beat up, but the battery still lasts for days, so I can't see a use for a new one yet
[03:38] <shauno> it took a nice knock on a corner - now if you push your hands on top & bottom of it, you can see behind the screen
[03:41] <shauno> I think I need new toys though :(  my laptop's getting old enough that it took a hex editor to make sure I got all the new tricks in 10.10
[03:42] <daftykins> O_O
[03:43] <shauno> there's a whitelist of which models get the 'continuity' stuff.  mine's not on it because it didn't come with bt-le.
[03:43] <shauno> but since I replaced the bt board with one from a newer mac, I fixed the list
[03:43] <daftykins> ah yes i was following that news as it came out :)
[03:44] <daftykins> i bootcamp'd win7 on my clients mid 2010 iMac as she wants to go fully Microsoft now
[03:44] <daftykins> so i doubt i'll be bothering to reinstall with Yosemite on there
[03:44] <shauno> slightly annoying as you not only have to take a hex editor to a kernel module to do it, but you also have to break the signing stuff so it doesn't reject it
[03:50] <mapps> since being here ive smoked more than normal..so cheap here
[03:50] <mapps> £2.40 for 20 marlboro/camel lights
[03:50] <mapps> cant help myse;f it seems:D
[03:50] <mapps> why cant cigarettes not be bad!
[03:52] <daftykins> drugs are bad, mmk
[03:53] <shauno> that's hardly fair.  it's not the cigarette's fault your body isn't designed to process them
[03:55] <mapps> yea
[03:59] <daftykins> nn guys
[03:59] <mapps> night mate
[03:59] <shauno> morning?
[04:00] <shauno> I think we lost diddledan_ too
[04:01] <mapps> Network File Server (Windows Networking)
[04:01] <mapps> Server Enabled:	Yes
[04:01] <mapps> Server Name:	Gibtelecom
[04:01] <mapps> Server Description:	DSL Gateway
[04:01] <mapps> Workgroup:	WORKGROUP
[04:01] <mapps> whats that hm
[04:29] <mapps> The irc logs fdont have on joins logged?
[04:29] <mapps> trying to find out what my old sky ip was
[04:59] <shauno> mapps: creepy stalking in /msg ;)
[05:01] <shauno> (get it while it's hot, I put a 1hr expire on it .. because)
[05:13] <mapps> thanks
[06:57] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:17] <SuperMatt> two days till release day!
[08:19] <foobarry> found this hilarious http://vimeo.com/109169719
[08:33] <foobarry> now i know why canonical dropped u1. dropbox charges $10 a month for 1tb storage now
[08:37] <DJones> foobarry: There's that and if you use Office 365, you also get !tb effectively free (assuming you're paying for MS Office anyway)
[08:51] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:52] <zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
[08:52] <brobostigon> morning carbon based zmoylan-pi lifeform
[08:54] <awilkins> Grrrrargh
[08:54] <awilkins> Microsoft are ANNOYING me
[08:55] <awilkins> I have a new laptop
[08:55] <awilkins> I have bleached the Taint off it and installed Ubuntu
[08:55] <MooDoo> lol
[08:55] <awilkins> In order to service the needs of my new corporate masters with regard to running things like MS Project, I have decided to put a VM on it and install Windows 7 Pro in it
[08:56] <awilkins> Like a good little drone, I have determined that I need a new license, even though the one included with the laptop is not being used
[08:56] <awilkins> I know you can get a nice clean no-bloatware ISO for the OS straight from Microsofts CDN
[08:56] <awilkins> So all I need is a license key
[08:57] <awilkins> If you google "Buy OSX online" ; top four links are for the Apple store. The top link offers to sell you Snow Leopard for £14 but helpfully points out that Yosemite is free.
[08:58] <awilkins> If you google "Buy Windows online" you get a bunch of sponsored links. Most of them for double glazing.
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> try that search on bing
[08:58] <MooDoo> http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24281.iso  64bit windows 7 pro iso
[08:58] <awilkins> Yup, that's the official ISO
[08:58] <foobarry> some guy i worked with 15+ years ago is asking for a reference
[08:58] <foobarry> do i decline politely?
[08:59] <foobarry> all i can remember is a massive mistake he made
[08:59] <zmoylan-pi> how good is he at making sandwiches?
[09:01] <awilkins> If you go to MicrosoftStore.com (which despite looking dodgy on a search engine does seem to be actual MS property)
[09:02] <zmoylan-pi> been ms makes it dodgy to my mind
[09:02] <awilkins> They only want to sell you Windows 8.1
[09:03] <awilkins> £189.99 incVAT
[09:03] <awilkins> Ouch
[09:03] <MooDoo> I just purchased a legit key from ebay and downloaded the iso....
[09:03] <awilkins> OEM or retail?
[09:04] <zmoylan-pi> just so it looks like you're getting a bargin when it's bundled with your pc instead of been the millstone it is
[09:04] <awilkins> Yeah, Ubuntu on this new hardware goes ka-chow
[09:04] <awilkins> Have the mSATA as a backing cache for the spinny rust
[09:04] <MooDoo> awilkins: oem i think, it works and is activated, legit hologram too
[09:05] <awilkins> MooDoo, ah, so they don't email you the key?
[09:05] <awilkins> Or do they email you the key then post you the COA?
[09:05] <MooDoo> awilkins: yes, they post it to you, and you can reqeuest email which I did
[09:05] <awilkins> Not sure if you're actually allowed to install OEM version on a VM
[09:05] <awilkins> Although no technical measures to stop you apparently
[09:06] <MooDoo> the only issue i had was i had to phone activate it. but it wored fine.
[09:06] <awilkins> Phone activation is just inconvenient
[09:06] <awilkins> All robot based these days, innit? No actual person grilling you.
[09:06] <MooDoo> yeah
[09:06] <awilkins> Tesco.com selling Windows 8.1 for £96.58
[09:07] <awilkins> Ah, they've cunningly omitted the "Home" from home versions now, haven't they
[09:07] <zmoylan-pi>  but is that win 8.1 starter basic home edition?  not a lot of windows in that :-)
[09:07] <foobarry> still a lot of money
[09:07] <awilkins> "Full version" (except it's not pro because it's the purple box)
[09:07] <MooDoo> if it's just 7 you want, cost me about £25
[09:07] <MooDoo> I think
[09:07] <foobarry> i'd want to feel like a software was amazing to pay more than £10 for
[09:08] <awilkins> Yeah, 7 pro
[09:08] <MooDoo> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/aclass-software-products
[09:08] <awilkins> Ta for the referral
[09:09] <MooDoo> :) ok
[09:13] <awilkins> 30 squids
[09:13] <awilkins> Much better
[09:13] <awilkins> Hooray for dumpster diving of licenses
[09:14] <MooDoo> lol
[09:25] <MooDoo> absoolutely chuffing it down here
[09:25] <foobarry> thats bad
[09:25] <foobarry> i have a 4ft trench in my garden
[09:25] <foobarry> and the gutters are also draining into the trench
[09:43] <zmoylan-pi> no problem, dig another hole beside the trench and bail the water into there :-p
[09:45] <foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/bupMH52.jpg
[09:45] <foobarry> it goes around in a u-shape
[09:45] <foobarry> more like a moat
[09:51] <safiyyah> Morning all, I have decided that I am not getting on with gnome on trusty (I hate unity), I want to have kde OR xfce I want to ask if I should just do a reinstall with kubuntu so I can have kwin instead of compiz and all the other kde stuff rather than trying to work them out one by one. Also can someone explain if xfce is the same?
[09:51] <safiyyah> ali1234,
[09:52] <safiyyah> ali1234,  read above please? really need a pointer in the right direction
[09:54] <safiyyah> I need to say that I liked gnome (metacity) but then none of the docks worked because on my system despite compiz setting mgr being there and the compositing feature being ticked, it is not compositing!!!  Anyway had a look around and I can live with kde or xfce.
[09:55] <MooDoo> if you don't have a problem with a complete reinstall, just install xubuntu or kubuntu....
[09:55] <MooDoo> or isn't there something like desktop-xfce you can install?
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> ^this
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> this adds xubuntu as option to log in menu at startup
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> save a reinstall
[09:56] <safiyyah> you install the desktop but there seem to be alot of kde packages in general which I  want
[09:57] <diplo> I always go with a fresh install now adays
[09:57] <safiyyah> I only installed my system 2 weeks ago zmoylan-pi  so I don't mind
[09:57] <MooDoo> well you could always - sudo apt-get install xfce4 xfce4-goodies
[09:57] <diplo> Otherwise you have to keep all the other deps from all other WM's updating
[09:57] <MooDoo> or if you want full - sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[09:57] <zmoylan-pi> but you had such troubles installing it safiyyah
[09:58] <safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, yes I agree, but once I set up a system that's it for 2 years until the next LTS, I think it's a long time to live with something you are unhappy with
[10:03] <safiyyah> is the 64 bit kubuntu the one to get? I have 64 bit ubuntu. I don't want one that is fixy please?
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> if you're using 64 bit ubuntu then 64 bit kubuntu is the one to go for
[10:05] <safiyyah> thanks, I thank you in advance for all the help am going to be asking for
[10:06] <safiyyah> :)
[10:11] <zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed it all goes well
[10:28] <safiyyah> Downloading, but have a lesson between now and 1, so be back about 1:30ish
[10:43] <ali1234> if you just install xfce-desktop along side unity it can cause problems
[10:43] <ali1234> in theory it is supposed to work, but in practice it doesn't
[10:44] <zmoylan-pi> that's how i've installed it a few times.  no real problems sprung to mind.
[10:44] <ali1234> kde is easier, because it doesn't use the same libraries as unity, but it could still have problems
[10:45] <ali1234> bug 1307657
[10:46] <ali1234> bug 1314782
[10:46] <ali1234> just a couple of problems caused by having unity installed on an xfce system
[10:50] <zmoylan-pi> fair enough, haven't experienced either luckily enough
[10:50] <zmoylan-pi> yet... :-)
[10:51] <Azelphur> ali1234: to reply to yesterday, yea I've started keeping more sane hours :)
[10:51] <Azelphur> in other news...on things you definitely don't want to see in the morning: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oo606qjndmn3fl5/2014-10-21%2011.50.38.jpg?dl=0
[10:53] <Azelphur> that drive better not be failing, that's one of my 3TBs :(
[10:53] <zmoylan-pi> if there is any doubt there is no doubt... :-(
[10:54] <Azelphur> hehe
[10:54] <Azelphur> It's only a backup drive so there's no data loss, just have to buy a new one
[12:05] <foobarry> how do i make a url disappear from the chrome awesome bar?
[12:05] <foobarry> delete key no worky
[12:07] <ali1234> i don't think you can. i didn't know you could do that in firefox until recently
[12:07] <foobarry> :(
[12:07] <foobarry> also chrome has taken to not remembering my passwords lately
[12:07] <ali1234> http://superuser.com/questions/273278/how-to-remove-an-entry-from-chromes-remembered-urls-from-the-url-bar
[12:07] <foobarry> and not keeping me logged in
[12:08] <foobarry> yay ali1234 ta
[12:08] <foobarry> shift-del
[12:08] <foobarry> del does nothing, so shift-del is unintuitve :(
[12:09] <ali1234> well del isn't exactly inuitive either, when the text field has focus. you would think it would delete the character after the cursor
[12:09] <ali1234> this is how i accidentally discovered the feature
[12:09] <ali1234> so i suppose it is kind of inuitive, in a reall terrible way
[12:30] <Azelphur> https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=56c81165bb14f1511c56484f2dbe9f39 it's times like this when open source is awesome :)
[12:36] <safiyyah> ali1234 so next time you will just get xubuntu straight out of the box?
[12:37] <ali1234> sure, i always do that
[12:37] <safiyyah> ali1234,  sorry had a lesson just finished so only just reading the text
[12:37] <ali1234> i only know about these bugs because people report them
[12:37] <ali1234> and then i have to fix them
[12:37] <safiyyah> okay so you agree with my new install
[12:37] <safiyyah> cool.
[12:37] <safiyyah> ali1234, I feel like you cursed my love of gnome
[12:37] <safiyyah> you were talking about xfce
[12:38] <safiyyah> and now I have been unable to get on with gnome.... it's only logical that you are the one who put the ideas in my head
[12:39] <safiyyah> I cant decide between kde and xfce, have finished downloading 64bit kubuntu
[12:39] <safiyyah> trying to find a deciding youtube review
[12:39] <safiyyah> lol
[12:44] <foobarry> safiyyah: have you used elementaryos?
[12:55] <safiyyah> foobarry, no
[13:01] <foobarry> its nice
[13:01] <safiyyah> foobarry, looking it up
[13:03] <safiyyah> foobarry, this is an OS, but I like ubuntu, am not happy with the desktop environment so looking at other options
[13:06] <brobostigon> you can install whatever DE you like ontop of ubuntu, one isnt exclusive to the other.
[13:09] <ali1234> you need a ppa for elementary though
[13:09] <ali1234> and there is no guarantee it works properly
[13:09] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+archive/ubuntu/stable
[13:10] <ali1234> also looks a bit dated
[13:18] <safiyyah> ali1234,  have your tried running kwin on xfce?
[13:18] <ali1234> no
[13:18] <ali1234> what would be the point?
[13:18] <safiyyah> its more stable than compiz..... my compiz has issues
[13:18] <ali1234> use xfwm then
[13:18] <ali1234> compiz 0.9 is really buggy
[13:18] <safiyyah> refuses to composite at will
[13:19] <safiyyah> xfwm? looking it up
[13:21] <safiyyah> ali1234,  you do realise the only youtube video on it is someone running openbsd..... that screams not user friendly
[13:21] <ali1234> on xfwm?
[13:21] <safiyyah> yes
[13:21] <ali1234> xfwm is the default window manage of xfce and therefore xubuntu
[13:22] <MooDoo> xubuntu is great
[13:22] <ali1234> xfce is commonly used on bsd, because it's pretty much the only desktop that is portable enough to run there, while still being half decent
[13:23] <safiyyah> ali1234, so what made you choose xubuntu over kubuntu?
[13:23] <MooDoo> i did it as i don't like kde, simple as that really
[13:23] <ali1234> do you really want to know? because you won't be able to stop me ranting for about an hour if i start
[13:23] <safiyyah> MooDoo,  suffering from a newly discovered hatred of gnome, now am lost!
[13:24] <safiyyah> lol ali1234 I genuinely want to know because I dont know if I should do kubuntu or xubuntu
[13:24] <ali1234> i even have illustrations to go with the rant
[13:24] <MooDoo> why you hate gnome, i hated it as It didn't look right, then I tried some extensions to make it look how I wanted and disable other features.
[13:24] <ali1234> like this one: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/kdefail.png
[13:24] <ali1234> that pretty much sums up why i don't like KDE
[13:24] <ali1234> and no, it hasn't improved
[13:25] <safiyyah> lol
[13:25] <safiyyah> but they have great aps
[13:25] <safiyyah> k3b etc
[13:25] <safiyyah> thats what was selling me , their apps
[13:25] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/kdefail2.png
[13:25] <ali1234> great UI design, really makes good use of the space
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Amarok is probably *the worst* example for a KDE GUI. I changed a few highlight colours and the entire blasted thing turned pink!
[13:26] <ali1234> totally not a confusing mess
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> No KDE itself, just Amarok.
[13:26] <ali1234> amarok is fairly representative of KDE applications in general
[13:26] <safiyyah> lol
[13:26] <ali1234> applications that aren't a confusing mess like amarok are horribly skeumorphic plasmoid monstrosities
[13:27] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: As a user of KDE, I wouldn't say so
[13:27] <ali1234> i'm looking forward to KDE 5, it looks like it might fix some of the worse problems
[13:27] <TwistedLucidity> Although you are right, they seem to chase features/configuration rather than boring-ness (i.e. stability). I miss GNOME2 :-(
[13:27] <ali1234> like the use of a default theme that Qt is incapable of rendering correctly
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> I hope menus work. They don't in KDE
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> "KDE 4"
[13:28] <ali1234> i used to be a KDE user years ago
[13:29] <ali1234> i stopped using it when i switched to ubuntu actually
[13:29] <ali1234> before canonical fixed up gnome, KDE was the best thing available
[13:30] <safiyyah> they fixed gnome until it was really good, and then they made the worst invention i.,e unity thereafter
[13:30] <ali1234> bug reference for "Qt can't render the default theme properly" bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283106
[13:31] <safiyyah> I feel like I have to click 20 times and type to pull things up on gnome.... and the metacity gnome refuses to composit
[13:31] <ali1234> you can enable compositing in metacity still
[13:31] <ali1234> althugh i don't know how you're using metacity in gnome shell, that's impossible
[13:31] <safiyyah> ali1234, it fixes and breaks!
[13:31] <safiyyah> I just want it working
[13:32] <safiyyah> and not have to think about configurations for about a year or two
[13:32] <safiyyah> lol
[13:32] <safiyyah> then I will come back and find out about the new LTS
[13:32] <safiyyah> my usual need for updates is when skype updates and doesn't work on the lts, thats when I upgrade,..... which is about 2.5 years
[13:32] <safiyyah> lol
[13:33] <safiyyah> ali1234, at the log in there are 3 gnome options, and one says metacity
[13:33] <ali1234> that's gnome classic or fallback or whatever they are calling it now
[13:33] <safiyyah> its has the layout I want without sending me on a clicking run but wont composit
[13:33] <safiyyah> even though compiz config mgr says compositing is on
[13:34] <ali1234> yes, metacity is not compiz!
[13:34] <ali1234> metacity used to have a config panel where you could turn on compositing
[13:34] <ali1234> it was removed like everything else good
[13:34] <ali1234> however, metacity is still capable of compositing
[13:34] <ali1234> you just have to edit the configuration manually
[13:35] <safiyyah> right so perhaps the solution is xubuntu with kwin
[13:35] <ali1234> lol, why do you want kwin?
[13:35] <ali1234> why not just use xubuntu with the default window manager?
[13:35] <safiyyah> looks cool, was the reason I fell in love with compiz
[13:36] <ali1234> xfwm also has compositing
[13:36] <ali1234> none of these window managers look even slightly similar however
[13:36] <ali1234> i think you're talking about something else when you say compositing
[13:37] <ali1234> because it isn't something you can see, it's just a way of drawing windows.. the windows themselves look the same unless they have transparency, which is rare
[13:38] <safiyyah> ali1234,  there is a compositing issue with gnome because NONE of the docks work. cairo dock, docky ... ANY dock because the compositing breaks
[13:39] <ali1234> that depends entirely on which version of gnome you are using
[13:39] <safiyyah> possibly
[13:39] <ali1234> external docks are quite likely to break in gnome-shell, because their entire desktop is designed to be incompatible with anything else
[13:39] <safiyyah> i can accept that
[13:39] <ali1234> they no longer use a separate WM and dock model
[13:40] <safiyyah> but that doesn't solve my click-about-the-computer problem to get to things.
[13:40] <ali1234> in gnome fallback with compiz, you will also get breakage, because compiz is no longer tested with anything but unity
[13:40] <safiyyah> the dock was meant to resolve that
[13:40] <ali1234> that also goes for xfwm
[13:40] <safiyyah> I dont like being sent around town all the time
[13:40] <ali1234> (compiz doesn't work properly with xfce either)
[13:40] <TwistedLucidity> If anyone is in Nottingham on 27th Oct, you might like this: http://nlug.ml1.co.uk/event/matt-lee-talks-about-stuff
[13:40] <safiyyah> ali1234, am ready to ditch compiz.... stary eye with kwin :)
[13:40] <ali1234> i highly recommend that you stick to one desktop, and don't try to mix components
[13:41] <safiyyah> I can live with either xfce or kde.... kde 5 looks wow
[13:44] <safiyyah> ali1234,  so you do not pimp out your desktop at all?
[13:44] <ali1234> sure, but i only use xfce software
[13:44] <safiyyah> hmmm
[13:44] <safiyyah> are you a youtuber?
[13:44] <ali1234> yeah
[13:44] <safiyyah> give me a link to your setup on youtube please
[13:44] <ali1234> i never talk in videos
[13:45] <safiyyah> doesn't matter
[13:45] <safiyyah> just want to see
[13:45] <safiyyah> well.... your version of pimping
[13:45] <ali1234> also most of my videos are about bugs
[13:46] <safiyyah> lol for all your love of xfce, you never did a 'show off' video on it?
[13:46] <ali1234> yeah i did a few, hang on
[13:49] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-G_HQu5_96VP4CMWcMu6Nr1hJDCyUEJL
[13:50] <ali1234> some features shown in those videos may not be available in a released version yet
[13:53] <ali1234> also https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/BWvsyYA6BLH
[13:56] <safiyyah> ali1234, your xfce setup  is what gnome used to look like before
[13:57] <ali1234> yeah, i know
[13:58] <safiyyah> yes so I liked gnome at that time, its the new one making me crazy
[13:58] <ali1234> if you want something like that, maybe use ubuntu mate
[13:58] <foobarry> tried MAET then?
[13:58] <foobarry> yeah what ali1234 said
[13:58] <ali1234> but wait until 14.10 is released (couple of weeks)
[13:58] <ali1234> because it isn't in 14.04
[13:58] <foobarry> the image search for vervet are somewhat pornographic
[13:58] <foobarry> one in particular
[13:59] <safiyyah> foobarry, i dont use any mini upgrades only lts
[13:59] <safiyyah> had one hell of an experience with maverick meerkat
[13:59] <safiyyah> never ever again
[14:00] <foobarry> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/08/install-mate-desktop-ubuntu-14-04-lts
[14:00] <foobarry> etc etc
[14:00] <ali1234> yeah i probably wouldn't go with the PPA
[14:02] <safiyyah> why not?
[14:03] <popey> that ppa is good.
[14:03] <popey> its maintained by Martin, who is an upstream MATE dev
[14:06] <safiyyah> foobarry, i like the mate one but its still buggy
[14:06] <safiyyah> i think getting it would be premature
[14:06] <ali1234> because ppas are nothing but trouble if you're not very familiar with how repositories and packages work
[14:07] <ali1234> in my experience anyway
[14:07] <safiyyah> ali1234, i am beginning to miss synaptic because it gave you all the dependencies
[14:07] <ali1234> install it then?
[14:07] <safiyyah> will be
[14:07] <ali1234> it's usually the very first thing i install on a fresh system
[14:08] <safiyyah> am starting again, downloading kubuntu
[14:08] <safiyyah> sorry i mean xubuntu
[14:08] <safiyyah> just got a couple of things to back up and get going on it again
[14:09] <ali1234> you'll probably be better off with MATE, really
[14:09] <ali1234> it's exactly the same code as the old gnome
[14:09] <safiyyah> ali1234, can I delete unity?
[14:09] <safiyyah> lol
[14:10] <ali1234> if you want to?
[14:10] <safiyyah> yes that would give me some satisfaction
[14:10] <ali1234> i would just use the 14.10 ubuntu mate installer
[14:10] <ali1234> when it is released
[14:10] <safiyyah> okay so no need for a fresh install, just add mate?
[14:11] <safiyyah> no i dont do those 6 month  releases
[14:11] <safiyyah> am alergic
[14:11] <ali1234> i'm not going to tell you that will work fine
[14:11] <safiyyah> since mavericj
[14:11] <ali1234> i honestly don't know
[14:11] <ali1234> there is potential for problems
[14:11] <safiyyah> when I upgrade in two year, mate will be better
[14:11] <ali1234> attempting to uninstall unity from an existing system is also prolematic
[14:11] <safiyyah> today their is kubuntu and xubuntu
[14:11] <safiyyah> there*
[14:12] <ali1234> there is also lubuntu and ubuntu studio (which is xfce)
[14:12] <safiyyah> lubuntu caught my eye
[14:12] <safiyyah> very light weight
[14:13] <safiyyah> but I figure more of you guys will be kubuntu and xubuntu type of people so I can get better support
[14:21]  * awilkins is a plain ol' Ubuntu with Unity person
[14:21] <safiyyah> awilkins, dunno how u do it
[14:21]  * brobostigon is on I3 tiling DE right now.
[14:21] <awilkins> Well, most of the time I'm using the apps, or a terminal
[14:22] <awilkins> Learn a few KB shortcuts and Unity doesn't really get in your way
[14:22] <zmoylan-pi> i used unity for 3-4 months, after having windows 8 on this laptop for 3-4 months it was such an improvement it didn't annoy me at first :-)
[14:23] <brobostigon> parentage, are both users of lxde and xfce.
[14:23] <safiyyah> no offence but unity feels dated to me and it is ugly
[14:25] <safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, been using ubuntu since gutsy, nothing has topped that gnome 2, with compiz....
[14:27] <safiyyah> havent used windows in about 6 years or7, if thats the state of things..... I dont know why people are using windoes
[14:33] <BigRedS> Anyone know a way of getting the time fs attributes were last changed?
[14:33] <BigRedS> so the output of lsattr on a file looks weird, I'm wondering when it changed
[14:44] <Azelphur> BigRedS: ls -l says the modified time
[14:45] <BigRedS> yeah, does chattr modify that?
[14:46] <BigRedS> I don't think chown does, ls shows mtime doesn't it?
[14:47] <Azelphur> I dunno
[14:48] <BigRedS> yeah, it does. I just realised how easy that was to test :)
[14:50] <Azelphur> Beach is kinda interesting with the weather today, funky patterns \o/ https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=27caad6c59d35899048e711b46762153
[14:55] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[14:57] <BigRedS> good morning!
[15:04] <bigcalm> Have I missed much this past month?
[15:04] <bigcalm> Moving house is pants
[15:07] <zmoylan-pi> 1 zombie outbreak, 1 hunt for red october, shiny new ipads, overall not much
[15:11] <awilkins> Has #gamergate been going on longer than a month?
[15:11] <zmoylan-pi> has't that been boiling over for ever?
[15:14] <directhex> about 2 months.
[15:14] <directhex> although yeah, some of it is ~2 years old
[15:14] <directhex> if you follow some of GG's loudest voices back in time
[15:15] <zmoylan-pi> i remember the complaints about advertising in 80s for games like barbarian and gameover.  and complaints about game reviews having no connection with the games reviewed goes back as far too
[15:19] <directhex> well, the modern "movement" isn't so much about those things, as a reactionary attempt to stop the cleaning up of those things
[15:19] <directhex> a lot of it ties in to a woman doing kickstarter-funded videos about sexist themes in games, which is about 2 years ago
[15:24] <arsenip> christ
[15:25] <arsenip> why is postgres replication documented in such a confusing manner
[15:25] <arsenip> clearly a #ubuntu-uk problem
[15:26] <foobarry> i remember A&B computing did a 5yr old using gimp censoring of linda lusardi in the barabrian ad
[15:26] <foobarry> massive blue "dress"
[15:26] <foobarry> was on the back page of the mag
[15:27] <foobarry> i appear to have entered a competition where 95% of the people have got the answer wrong
[15:27] <foobarry> IMHO
[15:28] <popey> Any of you watched "Halt & Catch Fire"?
[15:28] <popey> it's a rather good AMC TV series
[15:35] <zmoylan-pi> i watched 1-2 episodes, meh
[15:40] <zmoylan-pi> doesn't seem to have gotten the same same buzz as mad men
[15:42] <popey> not watched mad men
[15:42] <popey> i watched all 10 episodes of HCF in a row
[15:42] <zmoylan-pi> mind the first 1-2 episodes of that didn't grab me.
[16:01] <zmoylan-pi> might be time to watch 1-2 more episodes
[16:18] <christel> 17:41  <popey> i watched all 10 episodes of HCF in a row
[16:20] <christel> err
[16:20] <christel> child on keyboard
[16:20] <christel> \o/
[17:08] <DJones> christel: Put the child in a bed rather than expecting them to sleep on a keyboard, I'm sure it'll be more comfortable
[19:41] <diddledan_> !isitoutyet
[19:41] <diddledan_> :-p
[19:42] <ali1234> is what out yet?
[19:43] <brobostigon> !isitmeyet
[19:43] <diddledan_> I'm assuming the bot tells us about ubuntu