[03:40] <Pwnna> does anyone know how to configure XF86AudioMicMute? It's not by default configured
[03:41] <Pwnna> i can detect the button, but it is definitely not configured
[09:02] <elfy> dkessel: I commented on your comment at trello
[09:08] <elfy> use a pad - with a sensible name for it perhaps :)
[09:10] <dkessel> elfy: ok, will do
[09:26] <dkessel> elfy: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-autopilot
[09:27] <elfy> ta
[10:05] <ochosi> morning folks
[10:05] <ochosi> and happy blueprinting day
[10:05] <knome> is the umbrella blueprint set up already?
[10:07] <ochosi> man, i just got up!
[10:07]  * ochosi needs coffee
[10:07] <knome> haha, me too, but who knows
[10:07] <knome> i can set it up as well if you are too lazy
[10:09] <dkessel> morning ochosi
[10:09]  * elfy thinks if the XPL wants team leads to do theirs the least the XPL can do is the main one - and theirs too :D
[10:09] <knome> ;)
[10:10] <dkessel> hmm i found a bug while trying to verify my german translation of the xubuntu-docs.... has any of you tried to do the steps for using ndiswrapper this cycle? :p
[10:10] <elfy> what's ndiswrapper ... 
[10:10] <dkessel> the configuration tool won't open from the settings manager... "gksu" not found
[10:11] <knome> elfy, a wrapper that allows you to use windows drivers with linux
[10:11] <dkessel> "Xubuntu supports a system known as NDISWrapper. This allows you to use a Windows wireless device driver under Xubuntu."
[10:11] <zequence> better to use polkit
[10:12] <zequence> That tool might need to be repackaged
[10:12] <knome> dkessel, file a bug against xubuntu-docs and start working on it ;)
[10:12] <zequence> synaptic is an example for how to do that
[10:12] <zequence> (using polkit instead of gksu)
[10:12] <knome> we've already shipping pkexec policy files for some apps
[10:13] <knome> *we're
[10:13] <dkessel> so you suggest filing a bug against ndisgtk? and then adding a policy file in some package ?
[10:13] <zequence> The policy file should he addeed to the package itself
[10:13] <dkessel> ah ok
[10:14] <knome> and if the documentation tells you to use gksu, then you should file a bug against the docs to change that part too
[10:14] <dkessel> knome: no it just tells the user to click the icon, so that's fine I guess :)
[10:14] <zequence> probably the desktop file has a startup command with gksu
[10:14] <knome> right
[10:14] <knome> yep.
[10:15] <knome> and hey zequence :) what's up?
[10:16] <zequence> knome: Not much right now. Thinking about eating breakfast. You?
[10:16] <knome> sameish thoughts
[10:21] <ochosi> aaahh, nice, much betterr now....
[10:21] <ochosi> morning dkessel 
[10:22] <elfy> seed gksu ... just saying :p
[10:24] <dkessel> i am on trusty currently. does anybody want to verify bug 1385841 for utopic?
[10:26] <ochosi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-v-flavor-xubuntu
[10:26] <brainwash> the report does not mention why gksu should not be used
[10:26] <ochosi> team leads, start your engines ^
[10:30] <knome> created and linked the sub-blueprint for website
[10:31] <ochosi> artwork is done too
[10:32] <ochosi> oh, qa too
[10:32] <ochosi> nice
[10:32] <ochosi> this is going much better than anticpated :)
[10:32] <ochosi> i'll set up features next
[10:34] <ochosi> and linked
[10:36] <elfy> bug fixes done and linked
[10:36] <elfy> qa blueprint work items added
[10:36] <knome> and please propose the series goal for vivid
[10:37] <knome> so once we are ready setting the blueprints up, we can easily ask the release team to accept them to allow them to show up in status.ubuntu.com
[10:37] <ochosi> only marketing missing now
[10:37] <knome> i can set that up
[10:38] <ochosi> all of mine are proposed for vivid
[10:38] <knome> done
[10:39] <ochosi> oh, just wanted to propose i do marketing so we're done... :) ty knome 
[10:40] <knome> now send a mail for the -release team and list the blueprints and ask them to approve them
[10:40] <ochosi> elfy: what about linking trello in the qa blueprint? that way ppl can find it
[10:40] <ochosi> knome: release team or release ml?
[10:41] <knome> ml
[10:41] <ochosi> k
[10:41] <ochosi> thought so :)
[10:41] <knome> yep, sorry for being ambiguous
[10:41] <ochosi> np
[10:42] <elfy> ochosi: yep - not sure if you got mail re qa trello - it's public now
[10:42] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, i received it, that's why i meant you can actually link to it there too
[10:48] <elfy> thought as much - just checkiing :)
[10:52] <elfy> so while there's a bunch of us mulling about - can we please get some resolution on staging PPA 
[10:53] <elfy> if it's staying with what it has - what other PPAs do I need to be as up to date as possible - shimmer etc I'm thinking of here
[10:58] <brainwash> ali1234: does bug 1379176 affect the normal Xfce session (xubuntu-free user account)?
[11:06] <elfy> ochosi: don't forget to approve the blueprints - at least I assume you should be doing so
[11:07] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, shimmer is a good idea for the artwork
[11:07] <ochosi> the daily one
[11:08] <ochosi> i missed out on the PPA discussion a bit
[11:08] <elfy> :)
[11:08] <ochosi> what was the problem with staging exactly?
[11:09] <knome> balancing doing enough daily builds and not becoming a massive daily buildfest with hundreds of megs of update every day
[11:09] <elfy> not a problem per se , I just really wanted there to be one 
[11:10] <elfy> and if not at least some idea of the hundreds of extra PPAs the only person in team that's needing to have to see what's going on
[11:10] <ochosi> i'd actually like to set some goals on what apps we're gonna work on
[11:10] <ochosi> and then switch on daily builds for those
[11:10] <ochosi> but we need bluesabre around for that
[11:11] <elfy> shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily <- that one?
[11:11] <elfy> really all these other ones should be listed somewhere 
[11:11] <ochosi> yeah, we should make a list...
[11:12] <ochosi> re: blueprints approval: i'm only approving blueprints that have content
[11:12] <ochosi> e.g. for marketing there's nothing to approve yet
[11:12] <elfy> eg for QA there is :p
[11:12] <ochosi> i think just adding the "approved" tag to any blueprint makes it sorta meaningless
[11:12] <ochosi> yeah, and it's approved too ;)
[11:13] <elfy> says approver none :)
[11:13] <elfy> mmm 
[11:13] <ochosi> not anymore
[11:13] <ochosi> but yeah, i didn't look there cause all the other blueprints had that filled out already
[11:13] <elfy> ok - so I'm so quick to set wallpapers and themes and icons to what I normally use
[11:14] <elfy> I'd best set them to default or any changes to shimmer ppa daily will not affect me lol 
[11:14] <ochosi> probably, yeah ;)
[11:14] <elfy> heh
[11:14] <ochosi> although wallpaper doesn't matter
[11:14] <ochosi> as long as you use greybird and elementary-xfce-darker, that's it
[11:15] <elfy> yep
[11:15] <ochosi> then you should notice any breakage/missing icons
[11:16] <elfy> yep
[11:16] <elfy> installiing that ppa now
[11:16] <ochosi> just FYI, as soon as V gets a gtk3 update, the themes will all be broken
[11:16] <elfy> okey doke
[11:17] <ochosi> we don't have support for gtk3.14 yet
[11:17] <elfy> you can probably approve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-v-bugs too - that won't get content till we start filling in bugs
[11:18] <ochosi> indeed, done
[11:20] <elfy> awesome - I'll leave you in peace now for a while then :D
[11:21]  * elfy is off for a bit fiddling with the qa processes rewrite
[11:22] <elfy> knome: did you see http://pad.ubuntu.com/upgrading ping ?
[11:22] <knome> yes
[11:22] <ochosi> cool, well thanks elfy!
[11:22] <ochosi> that was a nice sprint
[11:22] <knome> will have to take a real look at that $some_time
[11:22] <knome> bookmarked
[11:23] <elfy> yea cool 
[12:03] <elfy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
[12:03] <elfy> \o/ 
[12:04] <ochosi> oh nice
[12:06] <elfy> missing from tracker - but so is everything atm 
[12:13] <dkessel> ...and that image requires switching to vt1 and back to vt7 with virtualbox....
[12:14] <elfy> dkessel: it will - there's been no fix yet
[12:14] <dkessel> elfy: i am installing ;)
[12:14] <elfy> dkessel: I upgraded on Friday morning :)
[12:27] <knome> i guess i should update soonish
[12:27] <knome> ...to 14.10 ;)
[12:28] <elfy> heh
[12:30] <knome> ochosi, how do you plan using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/ ?
[12:38] <elfy> as a general thing re pkexec - what's going to be our plan here
[12:39] <elfy> ndiswrapper might not have gksu - but if we get involved in each and every thing that might need dealing with - we'll never end
[12:39] <elfy> shouldn't that be a general ubuntu thing to deal with?
[12:40] <brainwash> isn't it a general ubuntu thing?
[12:40] <brainwash> ubuntu does not install the gksu
[12:40] <brainwash> package
[12:40] <elfy> I'd assume so - was just thinking given the discussion earlier
[12:42] <brainwash> ideally the gksu package should be removed from the repo completely
[12:43] <brainwash> to complete the pkexec transition
[12:43] <knome> elfy, we can kickstart the process to get it done; eg. file bugs when gksu is used instead of pkexec
[12:43] <knome> and i think that's where our responsibility ends
[12:44] <elfy> yep
[12:44] <elfy> works for me 
[12:55] <ochosi> knome: haven't given that much thought tbh
[12:55] <ochosi> why, do you have a proposal? :)
[12:56] <ochosi> i mean i liked how we did in trusty
[12:56] <ochosi> although i also don't mind if ppl put their stuff directly into blueprints
[12:56] <ochosi> but i guess the spec has the advantage of keeping things on a single page
[12:57] <knome> just asking
[12:57] <knome> i don't think there is one right way
[12:57] <knome> but otoh, if we aren't using it, then let's not pretend we are :)
[13:01] <ochosi> sure
[13:01] <ochosi> i actually wanted to wait for bluesabre to chip in about features and stuff and then decide what to do with it
[13:02] <ochosi> frankly, it's also a bit cumbersome to use and slow, so i'm not entirely sold on the wiki
[13:02] <elfy> amen to that 
[13:03] <bluesabre> good morning folks
[13:03] <ochosi> oh wow, speak of the "devil"
[13:03] <elfy> :)
[13:04] <elfy> morning bluesabre 
[13:04] <bluesabre> (:c
[13:04] <bluesabre> time to catch up on backlog
[13:10] <bluesabre> ok, caught up
[13:11] <bluesabre> for any packages we don't ship, but maybe use and should have pkexec policies, make a list somewhere. We can update the packages and get them sponsored... that's relatively painless
[13:12] <ochosi> good idea
[13:12] <bluesabre> I'm going to do a better job of monitoring xubuntu-v-bugs this cycle, so anything that needs a fix (thunar for instance), link it
[13:13] <ochosi> could even just submit bugreports and add them to the bugs bp
[13:13] <elfy> I linked 3 to that bluesabre 
[13:13] <bluesabre> also, xfdesktop and thunar both use glib, does this bug affect xfdesktop as well?
[13:14] <bluesabre> I started this pad for development, we can use it to put together ideas for dev this cycle, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-v-dev
[13:14] <bluesabre> or any other considerations
[13:14] <ochosi> bluesabre: you could link to that in the features bp
[13:15] <ochosi> just so that we have common places to look when we "lose" links to stuff
[13:15] <bluesabre> oh, this is just for today.  Going to port over to a dev blueprint as we finalize today
[13:15] <ochosi> oh right
[13:16] <ochosi> wrt upower 0.99, theoretically we should be safe
[13:16] <bluesabre> elfy, great, thanks
[13:16] <ochosi> iirc all xfce components received patches, so theoretically, things should work
[13:16] <bluesabre> right
[13:16] <ochosi> bluesabre: what i mentioned earlier wrt evince, you just have to open it on its own
[13:17] <ochosi> without file
[13:17] <ochosi> then you see the recent-view
[13:17] <bluesabre> ok, I'll take a look at that
[13:17] <ochosi> it's kinda neat
[13:17] <ochosi> haven't checked out the code for it yet though
[13:17] <bluesabre> ok, I see
[13:18] <ochosi> i mean we could also just do an icon-view of all media-files in the recent menu
[13:18] <ochosi> or something like that
[13:18] <bluesabre> yeah
[13:18] <bluesabre> there might even be a new widget implementing that
[13:18] <ochosi> yeah, possibl
[13:18] <ochosi> e
[13:18] <elfy> bluesabre: as far as planning what's going to be worked on will affect when we call for testing OR we can just extra call as and when 
[13:19] <elfy> I just need to know what *we* would prefer early enough
[13:20] <bluesabre> right
[13:21] <bluesabre> I'll probably do some dev releases of some components only to -staging, its hard to give a specific time frame when these will be complete though
[13:23] <elfy> ok so plan B :)
[13:23] <elfy> I'll do a schedule and then we can shove extras in as and when :)
[13:24] <bluesabre> I'll try to target early milestonesn as much as possible
[13:24] <elfy> won't be doing that till I've seen release schedule
[13:24] <elfy> okey doke 
[13:25] <bluesabre> ochosi: what's the general consensus among xfce-dev about getting 4.12 out by the end of the year?
[13:25] <knome> bluesabre, aren't you two of the few, and you both want it out :)
[13:26] <bluesabre> I want it out, but I work on very few components
[13:26] <bluesabre> if I release xfce4-settings 4.12.0, Nick will return, but only to slap me
[13:26] <ochosi> bluesabre: no consensus
[13:27] <knome> bluesabre, but you should still do that, if that's ready for the 4.12 release
[13:27] <ochosi> nick is away a few more weeks he said
[13:27] <bluesabre> knome: its... almost there
[13:27] <ochosi> so i think it's unrealistic to assume a release will happen this year
[13:28] <elfy> is Mir going to start affecting us anytime soon? 
[13:35] <knome> not sure if it's something for -docs actually
[13:36] <knome> ochosi, there's no docs blueprint!!
[13:36] <bluesabre> yeah, definitely more docs-y
[13:36] <elfy> slickymaster's surfing ;)
[13:36] <knome> i'll do that.
[13:39] <knome> docs blueprint created
[13:43] <bluesabre> knome: thanks, added some details to the pad, will add more later
[14:20] <elfy> ochosi: what do you suggest as a permanent(ish) home for the QA incentive details? 
[14:20] <slickymaster> elfy, actually I'm actually with a terrible headache and a bit hungover
[14:21] <elfy> slickymaster: lol 
[14:21] <slickymaster> but I see there's already a lot work done
[14:21] <elfy> yea 
[14:21] <slickymaster> let just catch up on what's been made so far
[14:21] <slickymaster> + me
[14:26] <slickymaster> do we already have any clue of when the new NetworkManager will land?
[14:26] <slickymaster> Unit193 ^
[14:42] <bluesabre> ochosi: ping
[14:45] <elfy> heh - just about to point somewhere similar :)
[14:45] <elfy> ochosi: tried to make http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-cycle less officialese
[14:45] <elfy> and knome - you could have a look when you've time too 
[14:46] <knome> sure, will do at some point
[14:46] <knome> (again...)
[14:46] <elfy> yep 
[14:47] <slickymaster> knome: thatnks for covering for me and drafting the docs blueprint
[14:48] <slickymaster> *thanks
[14:54] <elfy> bluesabre: so basically I assume you're happy that I'll do a testing schedule like normal and then fit things in as and when they need it?
[14:55] <knome> slickymaster, no problem
[14:55]  * slickymaster is a bit sick :P
[14:55] <bluesabre> elfy: yeah, and I'll coordinate with you when there is testing to be done
[14:56] <bluesabre> where is the team image/hardware/testing page again?
[14:56] <ochosi> bluesabre: pong
[14:56]  * ochosi needs to read up on the backlog
[14:56] <bluesabre> ochosi: Ubuntu dev folks patch away Headerbars on evince... but why not simple scan?
[14:56] <bluesabre> pretty sure they ship both
[14:56] <knome> bluesabre, ask them :)
[14:56] <ochosi> good question
[14:57] <ochosi> knome is right, we should ask them
[14:57] <bluesabre> knome: asked ochosi since he seems to be in the know :)
[14:58] <knome> lol
[15:03] <elfy> bluesabre: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware
[15:03] <bluesabre> elfy, thanks
[15:04] <bluesabre> wondering if we can extend that with a few specifics... like monitor count
[15:05] <elfy> bluesabre: well ... 
[15:05] <knome> elfy, poked
[15:05] <elfy> given that it takes a thousand attempts to get a simple one done - if you want something more elaborate - please do your own ;)
[15:05] <elfy> knome: thanks :)
[15:06] <elfy> bluesabre: but seriously if you think it's helpful to know - change it :)
[15:07] <elfy> sometimes I suspect it might be helpful to know it it's laptop or desktop too I guess
[15:07] <knome> if we add monitor count, is it useful to know i can do two-monitor testing on a non-development version?
[15:07] <bluesabre> yeah, laptop vs desktop, gfx card
[15:07] <knome> or maybe we should add one more column
[15:07] <bluesabre> knome: yes, since we develop the portion of xfce4-settings that handles monitors
[15:08] <knome> for the "hardware id"
[15:08] <knome> and separate the vbox list
[15:08] <ochosi> bluesabre: +1 on monitor/graphics card info
[15:09]  * bluesabre waits forever for ubuntu wiki to log him in
[15:09] <knome> elfy, allow me to poke the page in the way i suggested?
[15:09] <slickymaster> knome, hardware id? you mean something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware
[15:09] <knome> slickymaster, no, i mean like
[15:10] <elfy> knome: yea go ahead
[15:10] <knome> every member should add one line per a hardware configuration
[15:10] <knome> bluesabre, no poking now then
[15:10] <elfy> but for instance I do dailies on VM, milestones on laptop hence only manual partition
[15:10] <bluesabre> knome: sure, still logging in
[15:10] <knome> yep
[15:11] <elfy> but once or twice a cycle I'll do hardware on desktop
[15:11] <elfy> knome: yea - one line per available hardware config would do - but it's getting people to actually do it :)
[15:12] <knome> elfy, yeah
[15:12] <elfy> that's useful info for lots of us I would think
[15:13] <elfy> I'd like to know I could ask foo to check something on laptop for instance
[15:14] <bluesabre> cleaned up the dev pad a bit, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-v-dev
[15:15] <elfy> bluesabre: ta
[15:15] <elfy> so other than staging and shimmer ppa I've got currently anything else I *need* to add here
[15:16] <ochosi> bluesabre: what do you think about just copying over e.g. git versions from parole that we want testers to check out to the staging ppa from the parole-daily PPA?
[15:16] <ochosi> and same for themes/icons
[15:16] <knome> ok, lookie at the wikipage
[15:17] <knome> elfy, ochosi: you obviously want to change some details...
[15:17] <bluesabre> elfy: yeah, everything should be in those two
[15:17] <elfy> :)
[15:17] <bluesabre> ochosiL that makes sense
[15:17] <elfy> bluesabre: ok cool
[15:17] <knome> maybe other/comments could be combined
[15:17] <ochosi> knome: i think we might need >1 line per tester
[15:17] <elfy> I guess I should try and use things like parole a bit more during cycle 
[15:18] <ochosi> i have desktop @work and laptop @home
[15:18] <knome> ochosi, yes, then you should add one more line
[15:18] <elfy> ochosi: yea - I'm just going to add one for me
[15:18] <knome> note the HWID field
[15:18] <knome> and the note about the HWID field :P
[15:18] <elfy> or will when ochosi tells me I can access it
[15:18] <knome> ;)
[15:18] <knome> ochosi, while you're at it, remove the "other HW information" column
[15:19] <ochosi> okok
[15:20] <ochosi> i'm done
[15:20] <ochosi> mostly
[15:25] <elfy> done
[15:25] <elfy> filling that in actually made me realise that I can do 2 monitors for laptop if we need to test something :)
[15:26] <elfy> caq5C4#
[15:26] <elfy> sigh
[15:26] <knome> lol
[15:26] <knome> elfy, i'd advise you to change your ubuntu one password
[15:27] <elfy> heh
[15:27] <knome> ;P
[15:27] <elfy> I had to do that a while back because of similar elsewhere :D
[15:27] <knome> yep
[15:37] <bluesabre> added mine
[15:37] <bluesabre> thanks guys, this will help track down unfortunate people
[15:38] <elfy> lol 
[15:38] <elfy> but you could have made it alpabetical :|
[15:38] <bluesabre> oh dang it
[15:38] <elfy> awesome 
[15:38] <bluesabre> did elsewhere, will do that now
[15:38] <elfy> so - found a bug in vivid ... 
[15:38] <bluesabre> or not
[15:38] <elfy> bluesabre: I'm joking :D
[15:39] <elfy> everyone else will just tag on the bottom :)
[15:39] <bluesabre> elfy: I'm not... a bit ocd with alphabetizing
[15:39] <bluesabre> vivid bug already, nice one
[15:39]  * elfy waits for bluesabre to finish ... 
[15:39]  * bluesabre is finished
[15:39] <elfy> bluesabre: not really - changing machine password - and it's hanging ... 
[15:40] <ochosi> bluesabre: looks good to me
[15:40] <ochosi> Lockerkim though?
[15:41] <bluesabre> cat hopped on keyboard, wasn't sure what she types
[15:41] <knome> :D
[15:42] <bluesabre> elfy, users-admin from terminal... wonder if there is any useful output
[15:44] <elfy> just started it again
[15:45] <elfy> killed existing - hadn't done anything ran it again and it worked ok
[15:54] <bluesabre> ochosi: can you add any roadmaps that I am missing at the bottom of the pad?
[15:55]  * bluesabre needs to create some for catfish, menulibre, mugshot
[15:57] <ochosi> bluesabre: done
[15:57] <bluesabre> ochosi: thanks. I'll create and link roadmaps for the other projects, and we can start planning there
[15:59] <ochosi> cool
[15:59] <ochosi> sounds good to me
[15:59] <knosys> hey all
[16:08] <bluesabre> ochosi: will expand out from here :) http://wiki.smdavis.us/doku.php?id=development
[16:08] <bluesabre> hey knosys
[16:08] <knosys> hey :)
[16:11] <elfy> hi knosys 
[16:18] <knosys> hey guys, its weird, i can't see translations anymore in launchpad. Why is that?
[16:18] <elfy> no idea - I've enough problems with English
[16:19] <knosys> "is not an active member of any Launchpad teams. " That is show on my profile. Does that means that i can't review translations anymore?
[16:20] <knosys> Oh wait, sorry i was on another different project. I should be looking to "xubuntu documentation"
[16:21] <knosys> my bad!
[16:23] <ochosi> bluesabre: cool, good overview there
[16:25] <elfy> ochosi: one other QA thing while I remember - what more to do with qa incentive and then where we going to store that - testing wiki page ?
[16:25] <elfy> last probably makes more sense - then it's just a link elsewhere
[16:34] <knome> elfy, or since it's an end-user facing thing (mostly) it could also go on the website
[16:34] <elfy> true 
[16:34] <elfy> probably even better 
[16:35] <elfy> it'll certainly get noticed more there I should think :)
[16:35] <knome> yep, especially if we advertise that page set
[16:36] <bluesabre> knome: your requests are now on the menulibre roadmap :) http://wiki.smdavis.us/doku.php?id=development:menulibre
[16:37] <elfy> knome: I'll start finishing that off and get it on a draft page at x.org
[16:37] <knome> great
[16:40] <bluesabre> lunchtime, bbl
[17:11] <elfy> ok - so there's a bit at the top of http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive now destined for x.org 
[17:11] <knome> destine ha ha
[17:11] <knome> +d too
[17:12] <elfy> :)
[17:12] <knome> hahah
[17:13] <knome> gnome minesweeper just crashed
[17:13] <elfy> are the Swedish navy looking for it? 
[17:13] <knome> who knows
[17:14] <elfy> bbl
[17:15] <knome> hf
[17:24] <brainwash> ochosi: please read http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/allgemeine-frage-zu-bugs-in-14-04-lts/
[17:25] <brainwash> I will add a reply later if you don't plan to do so :)
[17:30] <ochosi> brainwash: yeah, feel free to add a reply (as long as it's an explanation and not a rant ;))
[17:50] <elfy> I see people other than team adding to hardware page - that's more useful 
[17:50] <elfy> especially akxwi-dave - not sure who he is - but he does a huge amount of testing for us 
[18:01] <bluesabre> I'm back
[18:03] <Unit193> Yey!
[18:04] <bluesabre> :D
[18:23] <skellat> bluesabre, brainwash: I think I need help understanding what the reporter is trying to say in LP Bug 1385863 as it is not clear at all
[18:26] <knome> skellat, he's saying that top says that his computer is on a huge load, but nothing seems to be the culprit
[18:27] <knome> so it'd be good to know if his system feels like it's under a huge load or not
[18:28] <knome> if it's not, then it might be either 1) a bug in top or 2) something that's explainable, but isn't imminently clear/logical
[18:29]  * skellat does not like bug reports with huge copy pasta dumps in the middle of them
[18:31] <skellat> Alrighty, probing questions left
[18:31] <skellat> Thank you knome
[18:31] <knome> me neither, the data dump would be much better in an attachment
[18:31] <knome> maybe you could edit the description to delete that
[18:32] <knome> and ask to readd it as an attachment (or simply do that yourself)
[18:32] <knome> and np
[18:55]  * bluesabre feels like there should be a xubuntu-u-development, but that draws a lot of parallels with new-features
[18:56] <ochosi> yeah, i somewhat agree
[18:56] <ochosi> we could also s/features/development/
[18:56] <ochosi> after all, we're using features like de
[18:56] <ochosi> v
[18:57] <bluesabre> yeah, I think that would be the way to go
[19:01] <ochosi> maybe for x though, cause i've already sent an email for blueprint approval to u-release ml
[19:01] <ochosi> i mean i can send another, amending email
[19:01] <ochosi> but i dunno if it's worth it, just for the title of the blueprint
[19:01] <bluesabre> either way, will probably flood -features with more than just new-features
[19:03] <bluesabre> or, can link the pad
[19:03] <bluesabre> let me know what would be preferred
[19:03] <bluesabre> or wiki page, etc
[19:05] <knome> blueprint is a great place
[19:05] <knome> so much easier to track
[19:35] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, put everything in the blueprint, sucks having to look in >1 place (especially with the wiki etc being so slow)
[19:35] <knome> and especially since anything else than the blueprints aren't designed to track progress :)
[19:36] <bluesabre> ochosi, knome: updated xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork branches. new vivid branches, set as development target
[19:36] <bluesabre> knome: can't do the same for xubuntu-docs, but I think you can :)
[19:37] <knome> right
[19:37] <knome> i'll consider doing that at some point
[19:37] <knome> ;)
[19:37] <bluesabre> what other paperwork/processes do we need to do for vivid that we'll kick ourselves in 5 months for not doing yet? :)
[19:38] <knome> did you check the processes page?
[19:38]  * bluesabre should do that
[19:38] <knome> ^ my new favorite phrase
[19:39] <elfy> can we all use it? 
[19:39] <elfy> I assume you mean "bluesabre should do that"
[19:39] <knome> yes you can
[19:39] <knome> i meant my previous comment
[19:39] <knome> did you check the processes page?
[19:39] <elfy> :)
[19:39] <knome> /dyctpp
[19:40] <knome> (not really)
[19:41] <bluesabre> ok read that
[19:41] <bluesabre> isn't there something release-specific we need to do for tracking that we did really late in utopic?
[19:42] <knome> bluesabre, anything that you missed? anything that was missing?
[19:42] <knome> bluesabre, i don't understand your comment.
[19:42] <bluesabre> the burndown chart or sth
[19:43] <elfy> bluesabre: afaik that comes from the blueprints being dealt with by release team
[19:43] <bluesabre> ah, ok
[19:43] <elfy> none of our blueprints last cycle were done 
[19:43] <knome> bluesabre, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Testing
[19:43] <knome> oh right.
[19:44] <knome> yeah, there's no charts for utopic.
[19:45] <bluesabre> yeah, this thing http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html
[19:45] <knome> yep, wasn't set up
[19:47]  * elfy keeps thinking he's missed something 
[20:07] <brainwash> skellat: I like the last comment in bug 1292290
[20:07] <brainwash> he assigned the bug to himself, but does not know what to do :)
[20:08] <brainwash> also bug 1270894
[20:09] <brainwash> it's assigned to a random guy, but no progress so far
[20:11] <bluesabre> ochosi, knome: blueprint look good (as demoed on top)? http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-v-dev
[20:12] <knome> bluesabre, is the gnome components note misaligned?
[20:12] <knome> without checking the content too closely, looks good to me
[20:12] <bluesabre> knome: no
[20:12] <bluesabre> ;)
[20:12] <knome> to me, the work items is ultimately the most important bit
[20:13] <elfy> has anyone seen lderan lately?
[20:13] <knome> so if you can squeeze out more work items from the whiteboard, even generic ones like "discuss X", or "investigate X", or "do X", those would be a welcome addition
[20:13] <bluesabre> ok
[20:13] <knome> they are easy enought to turn into actionabe items later
[20:13] <knome> and with as much work items laid out as possible, it's easier to grasp what the total work items amount would be at max
[20:14] <knome> (and the baseline is more useful if we have most work items listed when the baseline is reset
[20:14] <knome> )
[20:32] <bluesabre> ok, put the squeeze on, created more items
[20:35] <bluesabre> going to add these to the blueprint now, I'm pretty happy with what we've come up with
[20:35] <knome> :)
[20:36] <bluesabre> blueprint now updated, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-v-features
[20:37] <knome> yep
[20:41] <elfy> mmm - I remember now 
[20:41] <elfy> milestones - we need to decide before I start scheduling testing if we're going to do as last cycle and ignore alphas
[20:43] <elfy> ochosi bluesabre Unit193 slickymaster knome skellat jjfrv8 Noskcaj pleia2 ^^
[20:44] <bluesabre> I'd be interesting in knowing when the things above us (gtk, systemd) will land
[20:44] <elfy> good point 
[20:44] <skellat> elfy: It depends upon when systemd lands.  If it is post-alpha, then I'd say just ignore them as what we would be testing would have little relationship to released product.
[20:46] <elfy> I think I'll just assume that we are - then if we're not we'll have a couple of freeish weeks mid cycle
[20:47] <skellat> infinity thought mid-cycle
[20:47] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, gtk will probably be in the next few weeks, we need to finish gi fisrt AFAIK
[20:47] <Noskcaj> *first
[20:47] <elfy> skellat: yea - which is mid alpha (ish)
[20:48] <skellat> Oh, I forgot to ask.  Do we need to think about Mir?  Is mainline going to try to land that in 15.04?
[20:49] <elfy> other than currently knowing "15.10: Potentially Unity 8 default / Unity 7 as an option"
[20:49] <elfy> I've not seen much talk of it 
[20:49] <Noskcaj> upower should be just after gtk is done, bluez5 after that
[20:50] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: good to know
[20:50] <bluesabre> thanks :)
[20:50] <skellat> What other Gnomish bits are planned to be raining down on us?
[20:51] <Unit193> Likely latest.
[20:52] <skellat> Do we know what side effects we'll get out of that?
[20:52] <Noskcaj> skellat, 3.14 didn't bring many big changes with it, just catch-up transions and debian switching gi to multiarch
[20:52] <Unit193> Sure, maybe not much for Gnome, but Xfce.
[20:53] <skellat> But in Ubuntu-side archive we're looking at a jump from 3.8 to 3.14 effectively after the late landing for 3.12
[20:53] <Noskcaj> We're hoping to try for 3.16 if all the transitons are done fairly early
[20:53] <skellat> GNOME might not have had big changes within its frame of reference but I'm more worried about our frame of reference
[20:53] <Noskcaj> For us, it's mostly just making sure headerbar stuff is patched
[20:54] <bluesabre> yeah, xfce works well with headerbars (better than unity actually)
[20:54] <Unit193> Bleh, headerbars.
[20:54]  * Unit193 votes to drop any application that adds them. :P
[20:55] <skellat> And please remember Noskcaj, Debian is hitting their freeze soon at 23:59 UTC on the 5th of November 2014 for Jessie
[20:55] <Noskcaj> skellat, yep
[20:56] <Noskcaj> gnome side that actually helps us since debian have sorted all of 3.14 out
[20:56] <bluesabre> yeah, we're in a good position thanks to the heavy debian work
[20:56] <Unit193> "Copy shimmer-themes package from daily ppa to xubuntu-staging for milestone testing"  Is that the badly versioned one?
[20:56] <bluesabre> true...
[20:56] <bluesabre> "Build git versions for xubuntu-staging for milestone testing" is probably better
[20:57] <Unit193> bluesabre: Nuke the PPA, re-create it, then change the version format for the daily builds?
[20:58]  * skellat walks away to go to a 14.04 machine to test a backport so he can file the request bug to go from V -> U and V -> T based on the sync from Sid
[20:59] <Unit193> bluesabre: Ah, thought lls was going to be added/created in ll source.  There's a WNPP already if you need me to grab the number.
[21:00] <Unit193> (Also, think policykit stuff would technically be an "upstream" problem, thus not on Xubuntu stuff?  Anywho. :P )
[21:00] <bluesabre> it is, but since I develop it, meh
[21:00] <bluesabre> :)
[21:01] <bluesabre> Unit193: # please
[21:01] <bluesabre> cavalier seemed opposed to the idea of including lls in ll
[21:02] <bluesabre> or, do you mean lggs?
[21:02] <Unit193> debian 745509
[21:02] <bluesabre> thanks
[21:03] <elfy> ochosi bluesabre: at some point before I do testing plan can you cast an eye over this - make sure all's what you think we need to test still please :) http://pad.ubuntu.com/vivid-testcases
[21:03] <bluesabre> currently experimenting with default qt configs
[21:04] <bluesabre> elfy: groups A-D are tested in that order? A earliest in cycle, D latest?
[21:06] <elfy> bluesabre: well ... unbeknownst to me - you can't order package testing in any order - so it does it in the order they appear on the tracker admins - hence they all show ashttp://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases 
[21:06] <elfy> however - there is nothing to stop me swapping tests within each suite about as we need
[21:07] <bluesabre> I mean, as far as the calls to testing, do we request some at a specific time?
[21:07] <bluesabre> I was thinking we did A early on
[21:08] <elfy> shouldn't  "change pinkish highlights to turquoiseish ones" be on the artwork blueprint :)
[21:08] <elfy> bluesabre: well - I can call for things whenever we want them - but experience tells me that people just go from the top of the list :)
[21:09] <elfy> bluesabre: you tell me what you want tested first and I'll do that :)
[21:09] <bluesabre> ok, np then.  we usually squeeze in the things we're developing right before FF (because we're awful)
[21:10] <elfy> lol
[21:10] <Unit193> Seems everyone likes to do that, or after.
[21:10]  * ochosi read backlog
[21:10] <elfy> bluesabre: as I said earlier - we could call for parole to be tested next week - if we need to retest it in March we can call again - that's not a problem
[21:11] <bluesabre> ok cool
[21:11] <elfy> I guess the important thing right now is if something obvious is missing from there 
[21:11] <bluesabre> it looks good to me
[21:11] <elfy> or needs to move out of the top 2 - as they are optionals currently
[21:12] <bluesabre> I think it is fine as is
[21:13] <elfy> cool - that makes it easy then - just remove xchat and we're good to go with those 
[21:33] <Pwnna> is the thunar bug getting fixed anytime soon?
[21:33] <Pwnna> thunar default open
[21:33] <Pwnna> also i'm getting black screen for light locker again. How to debug this?
[21:33] <Pwnna> fresh install, this time
[21:34] <elfy> night all - cya when I cya
[22:27] <ochosi> bluesabre: you're pushing that right into x-d-s, right?
[22:28] <bluesabre> yeah, the plan is to push it, and anything else we want for our initial vivid release
[22:29] <bluesabre> it will go into daily, and then let that simmer for a few days before upload to archive
[22:37] <ochosi> i guess for 14.10 we can't really fix that for existing users anyway...
[22:37] <ochosi> could try to SRU it, since it's one of the known ones
[22:37] <bluesabre> yeah, not much that can be done.  Doesn't get copied or read for xdg-xubuntu, skel only applies to new users (I think)
[22:44] <knome> bluesabre, so, when are you pushing the pink-reverting stuff? :)
[22:44] <bluesabre> can push that now too, unless we want to cling to the pink for a while 
[22:45] <knome> nah, for vivid, it should just be gone
[23:07] <bluesabre> Unit193: poke
[23:08] <bluesabre> does "bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}+bzr~{revno}" seem reasonable for ubuntu-native bzr packages?
[23:11] <bluesabre> in this case, xubuntu-default-settings_15.04.0+bzr~534.dsc
[23:13] <ochosi> we could also just replace the pink with turquoise straight away
[23:13] <ochosi> knome: ^
[23:13] <ochosi> or do you wanna keep it a "suprise"?
[23:13] <bluesabre> either way, we can't undo gtk3 colors since they are a skel item
[23:14] <bluesabre> so, pink utopic upgraders keep pink gtk3
[23:14] <knome> bluesabre, Unit193 talked about some script to revert that if i understood correctly
[23:15] <knome> ochosi, i would say we should probably just revert to default now
[23:26] <ochosi> yeah, bringing it back is easy anyway
[23:27] <knome> yep
[23:42] <Unit193> bluesabre: Hello.  No tilde, though.  Well, upgraders don't really get it if they don't create a new user, and maintscript to remove the file.
[23:46] <bluesabre> so, a new user made in 14.10, with /etc/skel/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk-3.0.css copied to their profile, we can remove the file in their profile?
[23:48] <Unit193> No, but from .skel.
[23:48] <Unit193> gtk-theme-config, same as always.
[23:49] <bluesabre> ok
[23:49] <bluesabre> knome: poke
[23:49] <Unit193> Yes, yes.  Poke knome!
[23:49] <Unit193> Pokepokepoke.
[23:49] <bluesabre> and/or ochosi
[23:50] <bluesabre> xubuntu-* packages, which series should get daily builds? trusty/utopic/vivid ?
[23:50] <Unit193> If it's from the vivid repo, it's for vivid?
[23:50] <skellat> Why would we need to keep re-building utopic?
[23:50] <knome> what
[23:51] <bluesabre> for folks testing
[23:51] <bluesabre> vivid-only in this case?
[23:54] <bluesabre> yeah, guess that makes sense
[23:54] <bluesabre> nvm
[23:57] <bluesabre> Unit193: so, about the maintscripts
[23:57] <bluesabre> guessing, prerm to remove that file
[23:58] <Unit193> xubuntu-default-settings.maintscript
[23:59] <bluesabre> aha
[23:59] <Unit193> Silly bluesabre.
[23:59] <bluesabre> thats easy enough then
[23:59]  * Unit193 hopes he wasn't going to just have a rm -f. :3