=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley === m_conley is now known as m_conley_away === Daryl_ is now known as Guest86047 [07:05] morning! [07:17] mlankhorst: hihi [07:17] seb128: confused about the popover bug. canhas SRU? [07:17] seb128: (and good morning to you too) :) [07:18] good morning desktopers [07:18] desrt, hey! [07:18] desrt, confused about what? and yeah, sure [07:18] seb128: just surprised to see it pushed to vivid [07:19] desrt, I did an upload to vivid yesterday, going to SRU today [07:19] gotcha. [07:19] desrt, well, SRU rules are it should be fixed in the current serie before being SRUed [07:19] til. [07:19] sort of makes sense i guess -- more testing that way [07:20] right [07:20] Laney, desrt, did you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/1372847/comments/5 ? [07:20] Ubuntu bug 1372847 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] New stable release 2.40.1" [Undecided,Fix released] [07:22] the theory here being that a glib change modifies the behaviour of the firewall process in such a way that it fails to properly configure the kernel firewall rules? [07:22] sounds ugly indeed [07:29] desrt, did you read about such issues before? [07:38] seb128: no [08:07] hey [08:12] hey mlankhorst [08:18] morning! [08:18] * didrocks just spent an hour on fedora to look at what is supported client-wise in bluez5 [08:19] sad that my other laptop doesn't have bluetooth support, would be easier [08:20] the read-didrocks-on-irc-with-a-didrocks-accent effect is always stronger immediataely after sprints [08:20] didrocks: good morning :) [08:21] desrt: urgh, don't tell me that you suffer from jetlag :) [08:21] seems that i do... [08:21] lut didrocks [08:22] didrocks, how is bluez5 on fedora working? [08:22] seb128: quite nicely, better than bluez4 on ubuntu at least (the connection seems to be way more stable) [08:22] contacts syncing works [08:22] network doesn't though (not sure if it's the phone that doesn't support it) [08:22] sound redirection works on both sides [08:23] however, sending a file fails the same [08:23] so, don't know if this can be from the phone [08:23] but for the hour, I got one disconnection on bluetooth side, and can reconnect immediately [08:23] contact syncing? is that done by gnome-contacts? [08:23] it was a lot of clicking to reconnect on bluez4 [08:23] do they show in tb? [08:24] yep, gnome-contacts, through folks [08:24] how do you etablish "the connection" and how do you use? [08:24] didn't try it, not sure tb is using folks [08:24] just curious what feature you tried exactly [08:24] playing music from the phone on the laptop speakers? [08:25] well, tried with g-c-c, for pairing [08:25] yeah, playing multimedia from phone -> laptop speakers [08:26] doesn't seem the other options of bluez5/obex are used though [08:26] I'll try to reboot at some point to poke directly the dbus interface [08:27] the "play sound on the pc from the phone over bt" works fine for me on utopic [08:28] 09:22:52 didrocks | sound redirection works on both sides [08:28] that's what I told [08:28] oh, I though you mean computer->phone and phone->computer [08:28] on bluez5 on fedora [08:28] no, I was comparing both [08:28] k [08:29] so what is not working for you on utopic and working on fedora? [08:29] contact syncing as a visible feature [08:29] and MAP support is only working on bluez5 [08:29] k [08:29] so, if we want to implement MAP… [08:29] yeah, we need to update to bluez5 anyway [08:29] at least, nothing that was working in utopic is broken in fedora [08:29] I was more wondering if they are basic features non working that we should look at fixing in the LTS [08:30] and the connection, to my experience is more stable [08:30] I'm testing to see how that goes [08:30] started deezer on the phone [08:30] I'm going to keep that for the morning see how stable it is for me [08:31] seb128: yeah, I didn't keep playing a music, it's more when my phone was idle [08:32] didrocks, where is the ui for contacts syncing on fedora? [08:34] seb128: gnome-contacts, then, it does it under the hood [08:34] you will see a notification on your phone telling that device "…" is wanting to fetch your contacts [08:34] k, I don't see the ui element in Ubuntu, not sure if that's our version or a missing build option [08:34] and just accept it [08:35] k [08:35] yeah, I suspect we don't have the ui parts in touch [08:35] didrocks, sending a file to my s3mini works fine [08:35] so I guess that's phone dependant [08:35] can be due to my phone yep [08:37] * mvo radiates hate^Wstrong-disapproval towards automake [08:38] try cmake? ;-) [08:38] haha [08:38] maybe its not sooooooo bad afterall ;) [08:39] indeed :-) [08:58] seb128: still, it give me a headache, configure wants to run autoheader/automake again in the dpkg ubuntu merge but not in the debian version. and all that changed is a bunch of C/perl files nothing that a looks at all configure releated [08:59] yeah, timestamps issues are annoying [08:59] it probably detects that some file changed after the configure and decide to run the machinery [08:59] seb128: yeah, I guess and I have a hard time figure the magic out :/ [09:00] sorry I can't help you there, don't know much of magic tricks, out of trying to figure out what other files you need to "touch" to have it not doing that [09:01] * mvo nods [09:01] seb128: thanks, I guess for some stuff there is no magic wand :) [09:01] (except find . -type f |xargs touch :-D [09:02] or rm -rf [09:02] mvo: well, if C files changed and they contain automake macros, automake does need to run again? [09:04] pitti: hm, what puzzles me is that this did not happen with the previous dpkg merge which had the same files changed [09:05] mvo: and configure.ac doesn't refer to those files? [09:05] black magic then indeed :/ [09:05] pitti: no, I think its really just a timestamp mismatch [09:06] pitti: but thanks for the hint :) [09:06] yo [09:07] it's a Laney! how are you? [09:07] hey Laney, how was climbing? [09:07] morning Laney [09:13] hey pitti seb128 didrocks [09:13] going alright, climbing was s-wwweeeeeeeeeettt [09:14] although they still haven't changed the set I've been doing >:( [09:14] did you feel the week without training? [09:15] it was a short session ... [09:15] have you tennised yet? [09:15] no, starting next monday [09:16] there was an issue with the teacher this week so they moved it to next week [09:16] looking forward that ;-) [09:18] ohhh tenis. I miss that. [09:18] xnox, do you play tennis? [09:19] seb128: i used to play for about 7 years, a long time ago. [09:19] (compete and stuff) [09:19] nice [09:19] I started a year ago [09:25] the recent rtm updates made a real difference on battery usage in idle, nice! [09:25] krillin discharged less than 30% between yesterday 8pm and this morning [09:25] with the device connected, not in flight mode or anything [09:25] woo [09:25] mine didnt die over night either [09:27] yeah, the new power savings are incredible [09:27] (the new stability not so much though :/ ) [09:27] ubuntu phone charges YOU [09:27] haha [09:42] pitti: want to have a quick look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/8730791/ ? the second part of the patch that truncates /etc/machine-id on a live-image is probably interessting once we go systemd as it needs to be generated on install or we need to ensure its using the dbus machine-id if /etc/machine-id is found empty [09:43] mvo: oh, why truncate instead of removing? [09:44] mvo: I think I'd rather fix systemd to regenerate it on boot if it doesn't find it; that's also in line with upstream's efforts of allowing boot with an empty /etc/ (and chances are that it's already fixed in recent versions) [09:45] mvo: but either way, thanks for fixing this! [09:46] seb128: does wake up take longer for you after that fix though? [09:46] davmor2, not sure, it takes less than a second [09:46] so if it was 0.1s and is 0.3s my eyes are not good enough to tell the difference [09:47] pitti: systemd explodes if its missing (at least currently) [09:47] seb128: :) [09:47] pitti: I'm all for re-generating, the behavior right now is that it generates a new one in memory if its empty [09:47] mvo: "in memory"? i. e. it doesn't write it back to /etc/machine-id? [09:47] pitti: but let me check 215, I only tested on 208 [09:48] pitti: I don't think so, but my data is outdated (208) [09:48] mvo: confirmed, rm /etc/machine-id and reboot breaks [09:48] pitti: aha, nice, ok. do you want me to file a upstream bugreport? [09:48] davmor2, how slow is it for you? [09:49] mvo: an ubuntu one for now should be fine [09:49] mvo: I'm happy to look into this and then send a patch upstream if it's not fixed in 217 [09:49] thanks! [09:49] mvo: or it coudl just be a debian packaging issue; it definitively worked in Lennart's demo with empty /etc/ [09:49] mvo: so I guess it's a relatively simple fix [09:50] right [09:50] pitti: bug #1387090 - most boring text evar [09:50] :) [09:50] bug 1387090 in systemd (Ubuntu) "boot breaks if /etc/machine-id iis missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387090 [09:51] mvo: heh, yes (FWIW, empty /etc is not currenlty a goal of our's, but I know what you mean) [09:51] pitti: right [09:51] description updated [09:52] ups, midair collision :/ [09:52] pitti: sorry, I was removing it the same second you mentioned it, please update again, I will stay away from it this time [09:53] mvo: ah, your's is fine, I essentially said the same thing [09:53] ok [09:56] mvo: a truncated /etc/machine-id causes it to be regenerated, but then it's different from /var/lib/dbus/machine-id [09:56] so this is a bit awkward [09:56] anyway, we have the bug now to track it [09:58] pitti: I submited a change to freedesktop so that the dbus unit run dbus-uuidgen --ensure - so that there is a valid /var/lib/dbus/machine-id if there is a empty /var. but thinking about it it sounds like its too late, isn't it? i.e. systemd will at least for this session have a different one, iirc it syncs the dbus one if it finds a valid there [09:58] pitti: but I may be wrong and its only /etc/machine-id -> /var/lib/dbus/machine-id and not the other way around [09:59] pitti: so on your system systemd is not using the data from /var/lib/dbus/machine-id if /etc/machine-id is empty? [09:59] I think the one in /var/ could be a symlink to /etc/m-i, but I need to look into the details of that [09:59] * mvo nods [10:00] mvo: systemd-machine-id-setup copies dbus' one in /var if it exists, yes [10:03] ok [10:05] pitti: i thought the way of the future was to have everything empty, generate /etc/machine-id on first boot, and then sync it to the dbus one. [10:05] xnox: right [10:05] or even making dbus use /etc/machine-id. [10:05] yeah, I thnk this would make most sense, simply check both locations in dbus [10:06] pitti: i think we want an upstart job to run systemd-machine-id-setup [10:06] or switch to systemd by default.... [10:06] (or e.g. have installers set it up - ubiquity & d-i) [10:07] so systemd calls machine_id_setup() during init, so in principle it's supposed to work; it just seems to be buggy somehow, I'll get to that [10:10] (as soon as I bent adb and powerd-cli to my will, which are annoying [10:24] seb128, tkamppeter is asking about systemd - do you know when we switch from upstart? Is it the 15.04 cycle? [10:26] willcooke: I hear infinity is planning that, but it pretty much depends on how much participation we get from server/cloud/etc. to migrate our ~ 200 upstart jobs [10:26] tkamppeter, ^^^ [10:26] thanks pitti [10:27] willcooke, what pitti said [10:32] presumably phone uses upstart right now, and that probably wont change any time soon [10:32] is the question in context of some work that needs to happen? [10:32] or feature needed? [10:33] from tkamppeter role as a maintainer, he wants to get a head start on porting upstart scripts [10:33] great [10:33] that can be done any time [10:33] the porting needs to happen before we migrate anyway [10:34] good point [10:34] right, and systemd works fine on a desktop in utopic [10:34] so e. g. cups can and should be ported indeed [10:34] preferably with socket activation [10:34] Fedora does that, so if it isn't upstream yet, it's a simple patch stealing [10:35] oh wait, I looked into the wrong file [10:35] s/file/package/ [10:35] willcooke: yes, phone uses upstart, and may continue to do so, depending on who you ask, and when [10:35] cups is already systemd-ified [10:36] calling "lpstat" correctly triggers cupsd, so socket activation works nicely [10:36] willcooke, looking to the work planning, is the "work on things demo-able" something that all teams should do? or some experiment you want to try? [10:37] it feels like most of what we are doing is not easy to "demo" [10:37] seb128, having something to demo is a core principal of Scrum. [10:37] and yes, the most difficult part is demoing "code improvements" [10:38] or Work In Progress [10:38] because there isn't anything to see [10:38] you can hack your way around it [10:38] or "maintenance" [10:38] indeed [10:38] like it's not easy to demo stability [10:38] or segfault fixes [10:38] you can take a couple of approaches [10:38] out of "here it's how it runs without segfault, before it segfaulted once a week" [10:39] as part of the descr. of the work, you could state a way in which to reproduce the bug, and then use that as the acceptance criteria - If I do X,Y,Z it doesnt crash anymore [10:39] and demo that [10:40] In my experience, demos are usually very short [10:40] "It used to crash here, and now it doesnt" [10:40] and you can whizz through 1 a minute [10:40] OR [10:40] we just agree that we will demo what we can and not demo other things [10:41] Another core principal of Scrum is that we all provide feedback at the end of the "sprint" (scrum sprint, not Canonisprint) [10:41] about how the process can be improved [10:41] so for e.g. [10:42] "I think that we could have demo'd that code better by doing XYZ" [10:42] that process seems more adapted for dev teams [10:42] so in time we reach a mutually agreed state in which we just know what is expected to be demoed and what is not [10:42] yes - it's dev focused [10:42] there are probably nice bits we can borrow [10:43] and then fit around the blueprints in LP [10:43] I guess we can try and see what fits and what doesn't make sense [10:43] I think job #1 is "Start using Blueprints again" [10:43] +1 [10:43] so let's do that and then we can perhaps fit some demos in to the weekly meetings as and when we have something to demo? [10:44] e.g. [10:44] sounds good to me [10:44] knowing than some people in the team are probably not going to have a lot to "demo" [10:44] tkamppeter back ports IPP to 14.04 - let's see it in action via a hangout or something [10:44] though I guess "run new version of libreoffice or chromium" can be demos [10:44] yeah, perhaps a quick run through of the improvements/new features [10:45] this should be interesting to the community as well, see the results of our work as they are done, rather than discovering them on release day [10:46] ok, so we're agreed that the next steps are: [10:46] 1) Populate Blueprints and break down work items in LP [10:46] 2) If someone has something to demo, the weekly meeting might be a good place to do it (with notice, so we can get a hangout set up etc) [10:47] 3) iterate the process as we go make improvements where we see a need [10:47] 4) profit [10:48] wfm [10:48] Laney, didrocks, tkamppeter, anyone ^^^^ [10:48] do you expect each team member to file blueprints for the things they plan to work on? [10:48] I'll create the BPs from the stuff we agreed in DC [10:48] * didrocks needs to backlog, one sec [10:48] but then the person who owns the work should break it down in to smaller chunks I think [10:49] (I'm happy to help with the breakdown) [10:49] If there are any other BPs needed, people can add them as needed [10:50] ok, that makes sense [10:50] we should agree a regular review process for the priority of the BPs - weekly 1:1s seem like a good time for that [10:50] thanks for filling the bps [10:50] yw! [10:50] then unsure if we need some for e.g libreoffice or chromium "normal maintenance work" [10:50] yeah, agreed - I don't think "normal maint" needs a BP [10:51] great [10:52] cool - that was easy [10:52] if anyone has any concerns or questions, let me know [10:52] yeah, +1 on starting using BP again and ramping up from that [10:53] I've got to get a doc finished for rickspencer3 today, so I will try and get the BPs done Thursday [10:53] I'm off on Friday [10:53] if that fails, I'll do it early next week [10:53] on that note, need to go for lunch, meeting someone outside today [10:53] be back in ~1.5h [10:53] cheers seb128 [10:53] a friend [10:53] see you [10:53] Laney, ;-) [10:53] hf! [10:53] thanks [10:54] blueprints> yes, for defined pieces of work [10:54] mvo: do you care about software-properties by any chance? [10:54] Laney: a bit [10:54] Laney: why? [10:54] a couple of items in the sponsor queue [10:55] mvo: it was a trap! :) [10:55] well done Laney ;) [10:58] only because I suck at python :P [11:00] nah, I just don't know this codebase very well so asked the guy who might do :-) [11:01] after lunch :) [11:08] pitti, willcooke, seb128: systemd support is completely implemented in the Debian package of CUPS, and actively supported by the Debian folks, so to switch over we need only to do simple configuration changes in the Ubuntu package (or with the packages being synced, change the systemd/Upstart conditional Debian/Ubuntu to desktop/phone. [11:09] tkamppeter: what would we need to change? it should work just fine as it is now? [11:09] tkamppeter: I mean, cups seems to start up on demand as it should (I'm running systemd 215 on vivid, also worked on 208 in utopic) [11:10] pitti, so the package uses whatever process 1 is? The package does not need to know at build time which process 1 will be used? That would be great. [11:11] tkamppeter: no, that would be just wrong; it should (and does) ship a sysvinit script, an upstart job, and the systemd units [11:11] tkamppeter: so the running init system will pick the correct ones, and the others are just being ignored [11:11] tkamppeter: if you have utopic or vivid, just boot with "init=/bin/systemd" or install systemd-sysv, then you can test [11:11] pitti, and it at least contgains the Upstart and systemd scripts AFAIK. [11:12] tkamppeter: yes, cups is fine [11:12] tkamppeter: and yay socket activation! :-) [11:12] pitti, cups-browsed, too? [11:12] tkamppeter: that also looks fine, yes [11:13] pitti, great, so OdyX did very well. [11:14] tkamppeter: and cups isn't running by default for me under systemd (I have no printer), and calling "lpstat" or similar activates it [11:15] pitti, great, Linux again getting better for old low-memory or for battery-driven systems! [11:16] tkamppeter: and faster boot, too [11:16] tkamppeter: cups-browsed starts during boot, but I think that's intended to pick up avahi requests [11:16] pitti, yes, together with SSD, our systems will soon boot again as fast as the 8-bit boxes in former times. [11:17] hehe [11:18] $ systemd-analyze [11:18] Startup finished in 1.046s (kernel) + 4.989s (userspace) = 6.036s [11:18] not too bad, yes [11:28] pitti, if the computer does not hang in the BIOS for ages ... [11:28] tkamppeter: bios is about 1.5 s on my thinkpad x230 [11:28] well, UEFI, but whatever [11:29] pitti, does our phone also boot that fast? I know that iOS and Android take really long to boot. [11:29] tkamppeter: certainly not; android takes maybe 1.5 mins (haven't measured it), ubuntu phone is faster (maybe 45 s, but also haven't measured) [11:32] pitti, if a phone would boot in something like 5 seconds one could implement a wake-on-GSM and one is reachable with the phone turned off, so that if one has no chance to charge the battery for several days one has some kind of emergency mode ... [11:32] didrocks: FYI, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/vivid-adt-ubuntu-developer-tools-center/3/? [11:33] didrocks: I ran it twice, it fails consistently all 4 times [11:33] pitti: would you export any proxy info by any chance? [11:33] * didrocks sees squid.internal [11:33] didrocks: yes; by your request, FTR :) [11:34] didrocks: but this worked in 0.0.5, do you know what changed? [11:34] pitti: 0.0.5 didn't support proxy yet :) [11:34] https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/vivid-adt-ubuntu-developer-tools-center/ARCH=i386,label=adt/2/ ran two days ago [11:34] now, it does [11:34] and so, it seems it can't find http://autopkgtest.localdomain [11:35] didrocks: ooh! [11:35] didrocks: I think I need to add that to $no_proxy? [11:35] (there is a local server I'm running as part of my tests) [11:35] didrocks: so far that only has localhost,127.0.0.1, and similar [11:35] pitti: yeah, I think it makes sense :) [11:35] *.localdomain [11:35] right [11:36] to be really "local" :) [11:36] yeah, confirming, all failures is about this [11:37] didrocks: pinged you as we still have notifications turned off, for the first crazy flood; it settled down now, though [11:37] pitti: yeah, I didn't notice as it was accepted to the release, thanks for the ping :) [11:37] pitti: btw, you see the tests twice because there is another assert in TearDown() (ensuring that we don't show any uncontrolled errors or warnings) [11:37] didrocks: ok, I'll check locally if fixing no_proxy works, and if so roll that out [11:38] excellent, keep me posted! [11:38] and so, the tearDown thingy caught the 2014-10-29 10:41:43,118 [udtc.network.download_center] ERROR: http://autopkgtest.localdomain:9876/android-studio-fake.tgz couldn't finish download: Can't download (504): Gateway Time-out [11:38] for instance [11:38] yup === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:51] didrocks: ok, that works [11:51] pitti: great! thanks for looking :) [12:14] didrocks: et c'est vert à nouveau \o/ [12:14] pitti: j'aime le vert! :) [12:14] moi aussi ! c'est la plus belle coleur ! [12:15] héhé ! [12:23] Sweetshark, FYI, bug 1386991 -- it mentions that LibreOffice also uses an embedded copy of libmspack [12:23] bug 1386991 in libmspack (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmspack" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386991 [12:38] mterry: yes, got a ping about that. Im not quite sure what that is referring to ... [12:40] Sweetshark, oh heh. OK :) [12:40] Sweetshark, libmspack sounds like something that processes microsoft files, but didn't look into it [12:42] mterry: yes, IIRC its something to create ms cabinet files. Some deeper digging shows it was used in openoffice at some point in time, but we seems to have removed that crap. [12:51] mterry: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmspack/+bug/1386991/comments/3 <- commented on bug [12:51] Ubuntu bug 1386991 in libmspack (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmspack" [Medium,Fix released] [12:52] Sweetshark, cool === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:04] http://www.webupd8.org/2014/10/ubuntu-developer-tools-center-01.html \o/ [13:12] didrocks, nice! [13:12] that was fast! [13:12] great work didrocks [13:13] thanks ;) [13:13] willcooke: blog post published a couple of hours ago + g+ post [13:13] so yeah, quite timely picked up by the press :) [13:16] seb128: anything left for vala promotion / removal? [13:17] Laney, let me have a look [13:18] cheers [13:19] Laney, seems good to me, thanks for dealing with that! [13:19] kind of took care of itself since we dropped the versioned stuff last cycle and synced up with debian [13:19] \o/ [13:20] :-) [13:20] Laney, are you looking at the libinput transition? [13:21] yep, will finish post lunch [13:22] great, enjoy lunch! [13:29] * Laney goes [14:18] happyaron, hey [14:18] dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/libfcitx-utils0_1%3a4.2. [14:18] 8.5-3_i386.deb (--unpack): [14:18] trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libfcitx-utils.so.0.1', which is also in package fcitx-libs:i386 1:4.2.8.5-1 [14:18] [14:18] happyaron, known issue? === charles_ is now known as charles [14:35] willcooke, tkamppeter, I replied to your email, maybe we should set up a hangout sometime soon? [14:36] so that we can confirm the way forward [14:36] Saviq, saw thanks. Do you need to get involved? I dont want to drag you away from more important things [14:37] willcooke, not necessary, as long as you get tvoss, but again, I'm highly opinionated on the matter so might as well be there at least to start with ;) [14:37] Saviq, :) Ok! [14:37] as in I WANT MY PRINTING FIXEDED === m_conley_away is now known as m_conley [15:11] printing on an envelope makes me want to cry [15:22] willcooke: people still do that ? [15:22] czajkowski: I assume it's for a movie prop [15:22] :D [15:23] I can print a pre-paid envelope so that I don't have to go and buy a stamp [15:24] but it would have been easier to cut down a tree, make some paper, invent the ball point pen, invent ink, write on the paper, form a postal service, employee a post man, employee someone to build a post box, walk to the post box and put my letter in it [15:24] that to print on an envelope [15:24] this is entirely the fault of my printer however, and not tkamppeter :) [15:25] it seems to say "yummmy! tasty tasty envelopes omnomnom" [15:26] willcooke: oh, there's usually a pickup roller adjustment that you need to fiddle with if it's the first time you use an envelope [15:27] it seems 28th time was the charm === alan_g is now known as alan_g|tea === alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g [16:07] Laney: seb128: do we have a vivid (and vibrant!) unity8 desktop image ready for download? [16:08] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-desktop-next/daily-live/current/ ? [16:08] nice! anyone tried to run one based on vivid already? [16:08] doubt it [16:08] hum, guinea pig time then! [16:09] * didrocks feeds his disk [16:15] blarg [16:16] clutter breaks mutter [16:16] MAN those rhyme, how did I never notice before [16:16] darkxst: plan on updating mutter & co to 3.14? [16:18] didrocks, qtcreator starts :) [16:18] willcooke: \o/ we'll still need to poke a little bit to ensure there is not an hidden thingy making some X calls [16:18]