[00:07] <bluesabre> Unit193: docs still broken?
[00:07] <bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8725926/
[00:08] <bluesabre> did a lazy test build of a lazy recipe
[00:08] <Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, warning, I moved the tests so now they'll fail the build if they don't pass. :P
[00:09] <Unit193> And yeah, but different breakage.  Translators thing doesn't work for another reason.
[00:09] <bluesabre> cool
[00:09] <bluesabre> recipe good then, putting it on -staging for vivid
[00:10] <Unit193> Compare https://unit193.net/xubuntu/fi/ln-idp49113396.html and https://unit193.net/xubuntu/es/ln-idp39481532.html to what you build in chroot, you'll no longer get the translators.
[00:10] <Unit193> Heh, glad you like it. :P
[00:11] <Unit193> bluesabre: If you're doing a daily, you can disable the tests so you don't get spammed.  Also, I have a daily setup, but it doesn't build a package, just uploads the docs.
[00:13] <bluesabre> are the tests likely to fail for a while, or be a once-in-a-while thing?
[00:16] <Unit193> Well, es tends to fail.
[08:02] <elfy> ummm
[08:02] <elfy> so looking at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/vivid-upgrading/view/head:/desktop-guide/C/migrating-upgrading.xml
[08:06] <elfy> seems that it was rather pointless me doing anything in the first place ;)
[08:06] <Unit193> Heey, you must have done good!
[08:06] <ochosi> knome, Unit193: intelligent hiding was unfortunately written for 4.10 and then merged into 4.11, which seemingly (without any obvious reasons though) has broken the whole hiding logic a bit, so that needs to be fixed first before we can ship it
[08:07] <elfy> yep so good that's something else I can ignore in future :)
[08:07] <elfy> hi ochosi 
[08:07] <Unit193> ochosi: Ah, so I shouldn't select that option, then.  Thanks.
[08:08] <ochosi> hey elfy 
[08:08] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah well i'm not sure anymore what exactly it breaks
[08:08] <ochosi> i think it breaks autohiding too
[08:08] <ochosi> if i ever get time, i'll look at it
[08:08] <Unit193> Chance it'll be fixored soonish?
[08:08] <ochosi> hm, no
[08:09] <ochosi> the author of the original patch (JPohlmann) won't look at it anymore and andrzejr said he doesn't get why it's not workig
[08:09] <ochosi> working
[08:09] <ochosi> so the worst-case scenario is that the patch will be reverted
[08:09] <Unit193> Won't look anymore?
[08:09] <ochosi> yeah, he's not contributing to xfce anymore
[08:09] <Unit193> Oh.
[08:09] <Unit193> That's sad.
[08:10] <ochosi> and true :>
[08:10] <elfy> I guess that's a QA doesn't need to worry then
[08:10] <ochosi> elfy: your evince screenshot, is that supposed to tell me that the bug isn't present in unity..?
[08:10] <elfy> ummm
[08:11] <elfy> that was days ago ... 
[08:11] <ochosi> it also seems that they have more compressed toolbars, maybe their patch is somehow related to that
[08:11] <ochosi> yeah, but we haven't talked since then
[08:11] <ochosi> "days ago" -> the day before yesterday
[08:11] <elfy> yea - I'm older than you :p
[08:12] <elfy> yep - no bug in unity it seems
[08:14] <ochosi> :)
[08:15] <ochosi> ok, good to know
[08:15] <ochosi> well, actually a bit annoying too
[08:15] <ochosi> but yeah, i guess i'll have to ping around in u-desktop again until i find whoever is responsible for the headerbar patches
[08:16] <elfy> ochosi: I've tried opening up a bunch of different pdf's in different orders and I don't seem to see any pattern
[08:16] <ochosi> right
[08:16] <elfy> though anything that's an exported from odt to pdf doesn't seem to get the issue that I can see
[08:17] <elfy> ochosi: blueprints all approved :)
[08:19] <ochosi> cool
[08:20] <ochosi> that was a really productive session on sunday
[08:20] <elfy> yep
[08:20] <ochosi> at least we have a tiny head-start on V
[08:20] <elfy> :)
[08:24] <Unit193> "UOS"
[08:27] <elfy> "UDS"
[08:27] <Noskcaj> Does anyone here use bluetooth in *buntu?
[08:28] <elfy> not many do - which is why we don't test it any longer
[08:28] <Noskcaj> I'm looking for someone to help with the bluez5 transition
[08:28] <ObrienDave> help, in what way?
[08:28] <elfy> bluesabre must - he's the only one who reported against it last cycle
[08:30] <Noskcaj> ObrienDave, Making sure everything we ship works with it, and maybe helping me package stuff
[08:30] <Noskcaj> hopefully patches aren't needed
[08:31]  * ObrienDave knows nothing about packaging
[08:32] <ochosi> Noskcaj: i'm using bt
[08:33] <Noskcaj> ochosi, In a few week is it ok if i ping you for testing?
[08:33] <ochosi> sure
[08:33] <ochosi> is the stack anywhere in a PPA already?
[08:33] <ochosi> all i saw was blueman 1.99 in bluesabre's PPA
[08:34] <Noskcaj> ochosi, no PPA yet, i'll make one once i'm done with upower
[08:35] <ObrienDave> Noskcaj, i have BT adapter, android phone, can that be of use?
[08:35] <Noskcaj> probably, i'll call for testing when the PPA is done. ty
[08:41] <ochosi> ok, just lemme know then, thanks Noskcaj!
[10:00] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: ping me when we get there
[10:16] <knome> elfy, no, not really pointless. it was a useful starting point and there are still parts of it intact :)
[10:16] <knome> elfy, also, note that since the bug is linked to the blueprint, we don't need a work item for the same item
[12:11] <jjfrv8> slickymasterwork, knome, the discussion about the docs upgrading section change made me realize something...
[12:11] <jjfrv8> I think we might want to change the  wm-settings-manager entity.
[12:11] <jjfrv8> The current version with "icon-> Settings Manager" was kind of a workaround for the situation in Trusty
[12:11] <jjfrv8> Whisker got that nice update in U where Settings got added to the category sidebar and  there is nothing is called "Settings Manager" anymore.
[12:11] <knome> jjfrv8, right, fair point :)
[12:11] <slickymasterWork> yes, absolutely correct
[12:12] <knome> fortunately we did it with entities, so we only have to change it in one place \o/
[12:12] <slickymasterWork> do you want to get on with that jjfrv8?
[12:12] <slickymasterWork> or do you lack the time to do it?
[12:12] <jjfrv8> sure, I can work on it.
[12:12] <knome> it's an almost trivial thing to do... the only thing left to ask is whether we want to explain that
[12:13] <knome> "go to [icon] -> [icon]" might not be the best way to put it
[12:13] <knome> i think we decided to keep the settings manager text because of that thing ^
[12:13] <slickymasterWork> hey knome, morning ;)
[12:13] <knome> because if you know the name of the application you want to open, you can at least search for it in the whiskermenu
[12:13] <knome> good day slickymasterWork!
[12:14] <jjfrv8> Yeah, I thought we might want to put some kind of explanation in there about how you can search for one of the settings dialogs or you could use that icon to see the whole shebang at once.
[12:14] <slickymasterWork> yes, but I'm not sure if there's really a need to explain it knome 
[12:14] <slickymasterWork> isn't that already implied?
[12:15] <knome> what about "[icon] -> [icon] (opens the Settings Manager)"
[12:15] <jjfrv8> except it's called "Settings"
[12:15] <knome> jjfrv8, in the GUI, right
[12:15] <jjfrv8> ja
[12:15] <slickymasterWork> yes
[12:15] <slickymasterWork> the label in whisker is settings
[12:16] <jjfrv8> the dialog also says "Settings"
[12:16] <knome> slickymasterWork, kind of, but really, the icons are supposed to be a nice additional touch and guide to find it
[12:16] <knome> so what about:
[12:16] <jjfrv8> the icon tooltip says "All Settings"
[12:16] <knome> [icon] -> [icon] (<guilabel>Settings</guilabel>, opens the Settings Manager)
[12:17] <knome> maybe i'm stubborn, but we've always called it the settings manager, even if the labels said something else
[12:17] <knome> at least we should check if/what we call it elsewhere in the docs
[12:17] <slickymasterWork> hey jjfrv8, haven't noticed that yet, but you're right, the dialog oes just says Settings now
[12:17] <knome> ultimately, consistency is the key
[12:18] <slickymasterWork> right
[12:18] <knome> we can't call it three different names and get away with that :)
[12:18] <slickymasterWork> I agree with your proposal knome -> [icon] -> [icon] (<guilabel>Settings</guilabel>, opens the Settings Manager)
[12:18] <knome> yeah, that sounds like the least ambiguous and helpful
[12:18] <slickymasterWork> jjfrv8: what do you think? ^^
[12:18] <knome> Unit193, were entities translatable again? :)
[12:18] <jjfrv8> sounds good to me. I can work on the proposal
[12:19] <knome> i guess they are.
[12:19] <slickymasterWork> great, do it jjfrv8, and knome or me will merge it
[12:19] <knome> yep ^
[12:19] <knome> or himself.. :)
[12:19] <knome> we're the three that have the access to the main branch
[12:20] <knome> and technically pleia2, but socially she doesn't have the privileges
[12:20] <slickymasterWork> btw knome, I noticed that you haven't add the LP bug number in the changelog, yesterday
[12:20] <knome> my mistake.
[12:20] <slickymasterWork> ok, even better
[12:20] <knome> should probably change that so it is there
[12:20] <knome> whoever merges the settings thing can add it
[12:21] <knome> (just add "(LP: #123456)" at the end of the row
[12:21] <slickymasterWork> ok, easy piezie
[13:00] <elfy> knome: what I mean by pointless is - there was no rush for it, I was trying to use it as a learning exercise, you and slickymasterWork took over, pushed it, etc so yea pointless from that perspective
[13:26] <elfy> knome: could you look at http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/series I get an error if I try and add vivid - we only have utopic available in builds, not sure if there is a bug or my perms are mucked up 
[13:26] <elfy> tia
[13:31] <jjfrv8> slickymasterWork, knome, how does this look? http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/settingsmanagerchanges.php
[13:31] <jjfrv8> the first item would just be that single instance, the second one shows what all other settings entities would look like
[13:55] <knome> elfy, nah. the markup was good
[13:55] <knome> elfy, that was a great learning experience, and i think you did well
[13:56] <knome> elfy, i'll look at the tracker... at some point :|
[13:56] <knome> jjfrv8, i'm not (yet) convinced
[13:56] <knome> slickymasterWork, ^ what do you think?
[13:57] <slickymasterWork> will look at it in a second knome 
[13:57] <knome> elfy, i see the vivid dailies in the list...
[13:57] <slickymasterWork> just got in from lunch and still have to smoke a cigarette before starting :p 
[13:57] <knome> elfy, do you have another problem?
[13:57] <knome> slickymasterWork, hahah :)
[13:58] <slickymasterWork> hey elfy, sorry about that, but ours was a good intention
[13:58] <knome> elfy, and the *29 builds show up in the admin as well
[13:59] <jjfrv8> knome, actually, I'm not convinced either. I think having two entry points to Settings (manager) from whisker is potentially confusing
[13:59] <jjfrv8> and then, of course, there's the issue that the icon could change depending on which theme a user has
[13:59] <knome> yep.
[14:00] <jjfrv8> that's why I think it might be good to have a short section on whisker somewhere
[14:00] <knome> maybe
[14:00] <knome> though we can't link to that in every instance where we mention the menu
[14:00] <knome> but yeah, if it was at the beginning of the docs
[14:01] <knome> maybe a "how to read this documentation" section
[14:01] <knome> i would even say a new section between "What is Xubuntu?" and "Migrating and Upgrading"
[14:03] <jjfrv8> I like that ^. I've got to run but I'll ponder it and if you and slickster have any more suggestions, let me know.
[14:03] <knome> and could be linked to in the "welcome" section in the main page too
[14:04] <knome> ideas: do a short glossary of the different tags we use
[14:05] <knome> and then mention the possibility that the icons are not the same if the user changed the icon theme
[14:05] <knome> that's a good one
[14:06] <slickymasterWork> that's what I was going to suggest
[14:06] <knome> and maybe note about the navigation arrows at the bottom of the page
[14:07] <slickymasterWork> perahps adding a note that whenever user change the them to a different one other than the default, the icons will chamnge
[14:07] <slickymasterWork> `perhaps 
[14:07] <knome> not sure if that's the right way to approach it
[14:07] <knome> just mention that "if you have changed your icon theme, the icons might not match"
[14:08] <slickymasterWork> either that or adding that new section you mentioned
[14:08] <slickymasterWork> also
[14:08] <knome> we don't want to patronize too much
[14:09] <slickymasterWork> that's a a double-edged sword
[14:09] <knome> always
[14:09] <knome> anyway, how i see it that this section would not be the place where we teach them how to use xubuntu
[14:09] <knome> but how to use the documentation
[14:10] <knome> if we want to mention what you said, maybe it should be mentioned in the section where we tell them how to change icon themes
[14:10] <slickymasterWork> hmmm
[14:10] <knome> but i'm not sure if it's necessary
[14:10] <knome> either way works for me though
[14:11] <slickymasterWork> I would go for the mention about the implications of changing the theme
[14:12] <slickymasterWork> linked in the welcome section
[14:24] <jjfrv8> bbl
[17:01] <ali12341> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738321 <- we should watch out for this one
[17:01] <elfy> knome: - sorry - was talking about packages 
[18:50] <knome> elfy, oh...? i'm not following then, but it's okay... especially if everything's okay :P
[19:05] <elfy> knome: no - it's not okay - Can't build packages for vivid - there is no vivid milestone, if you add milestones in series - then I get an error when trying to do that :)
[19:06] <elfy> but I'm not sure if it's because perms are screwed or ...
[19:06] <knome> ok
[19:06] <knome> i'll try to look at that later, busy now
[19:06] <elfy> yep ok - not a rush at all 
[19:44] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, Could you please have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-xkb-plugin/lp-733563
[21:34] <pleia2> were docs reorganized at all for this release?
[21:35] <pleia2> no, I just forget how to do docs
[21:35] <pleia2> nevermind :)
[21:37] <pleia2> knome: is pretty? http://docs.xubuntu.org/1410/
[21:37] <pleia2> I'll update startpage too
[21:39] <knome> pleia2, the startpage branch should be updated
[21:39] <knome> yeah, looks like it should
[21:39] <pleia2> coo'
[21:39] <dkessel> Hmm online docs do not include the translations?
[21:40] <pleia2> knome: hm, last modified 10/07?
[21:40] <pleia2> dkessel: currently we don't build .html pages for non-english in our Makefile
[21:40] <pleia2> so no
[21:41] <pleia2> knome: want me to do MP, or you?
[21:42] <pleia2> knome: also, should look into getting you access to this system, since it's a historical fluke that I have ssh access it may take some time, might as well get started now
[21:44] <pleia2> because bus factor and things
[21:45] <dkessel> pleia2: I think I built non-english HTML docs from the makefile just the other day... It even included them in the start page. Is this a different branch than the installed docs?
[21:47] <pleia2> dkessel: ah, it may be possible but the simple "make" in the desktop-guide/ directory only produces english
[21:48] <dkessel> OK I think I used the root directory
[21:49] <pleia2> ah
[21:50] <pleia2> I see, yeah, that does build in es, fi and pl
[21:50] <pleia2> er, pt
[21:50] <pleia2> suppose we could upload these too, could modify the startpage to point to them
[21:51] <knome> pleia2, hehe :)
[21:51] <knome> hmm, right
[21:51] <knome> if you feel like updating it, you can
[21:51] <knome> otherwise i can do that straight to the docs branch
[21:52] <pleia2> I feel like putting socks on because my cousin is coming to pick me up any minute now
[21:52] <knome> lol
[21:52] <knome> ok, i'll update the branch for you
[21:52] <pleia2> I can do it later, there's no rush
[21:52] <knome> nah
[21:52] <knome> it's trivial
[21:54] <knome> pleia2, done and pushed
[21:55] <pleia2> neat-o
[21:55] <pleia2> where did that tab go
[21:56] <knome> hiding
[21:56] <pleia2> now my internet is acting like I'm at a hotel (oh)
[21:57] <knome> :D :D
[21:57] <slickymaster> good to see pleia2 working on docs :)
[21:57] <knome> at least it's not acting like you're a hotel, like i first read
[21:58] <pleia2> slickymaster: just updating the website ;)
[21:58] <slickymaster> well, anyway it's related
[21:58] <knome> slickymaster, did you understand elfy's problem from earlier?
[21:59] <knome> was he talking about the package tracker maybe?
[21:59]  * slickymaster is feeling lazyI got the idea that it was about the package tracker, yeah
[21:59] <knome> i guess so..
[22:00] <pleia2> okie, http://docs.xubuntu.org/ is updated and I have socks
[22:00]  * slickymaster is infarcted
[22:01] <slickymaster> too many grilled lamb ribs for dinner
[22:01]  * knome longs for the sockless pleia2 
[22:01] <pleia2> me too, but I didn't bring practical sandals with me
[22:01] <knome> forestpiskie, package tracker now has vivid series, vivid daily milestone, and xubuntu desktop has a vividdaily build for the vivid daily milestone
[22:01]  * slickymaster goes pour himself a rum
[22:01] <knome> pleia2, so you only took the unpractical sandals?
[22:02] <knome> "a rum"
[22:02] <knome> sounds like a lot of rum
[22:02] <knome> a bottle of rum?
[22:02] <pleia2> knome: yes, good for the beach! but not so good for a pub
[22:02] <knome> damn
[22:02] <knome> you should go barefoot!
[22:02] <slickymaster> lol, no, just a tall glass
[22:02] <knome> slickymaster, 0.5l? :P
[22:02] <knome> huhu
[22:02] <slickymaster> tomorrow is still thursday
[22:02] <knome> you're incorrect
[22:02] <slickymaster> ah ah 
[22:02] <knome> today is thursday
[22:03] <pleia2> knome: is not allowed :(
[22:03] <slickymaster> for you, not for me
[22:03] <knome> pleia2, stupid bar
[22:03] <knome> pleia2, just go to the liquor store and buy a bottle of rum and follow slickymaster's lead
[22:03] <knome> bottle of rum on monday
[22:03] <knome> ++
[22:03] <knome> ;)
[22:03] <slickymaster> that's the way to do it pleia2 
[22:03] <knome> eh
[22:03] <knome> wednesday
[22:03] <slickymaster> go for it ;)
[22:05] <pleia2> haha
[22:05] <pleia2> I don't see my family much, need to be social :)
[22:05] <knome> pleia2, heyyy... ask them to join your hotel room
[22:05] <knome> :P
[22:06] <pleia2> +4 yr old nephew
[22:06] <pleia2> er, cousin's child, what is that?
[22:06] <pleia2> mini-cousin
[22:06] <knome> minime
[22:23] <knome> (^ second cousin)
[22:25] <pleia2> aha
[22:27] <genii> Yes, second cousin
[22:27] <slickymaster> it's only second cousin if pleia2 is a 'direct' cousin of the child parent
[22:27]  * slickymaster thinks
[22:27] <pleia2> yeah, I'm that
[22:27] <pleia2> our moms are sisters
[22:28] <slickymaster> being so, yes it's second cousin
[22:57] <knome> bluesabre, ochosi: bug 1387413
[22:58] <bluesabre> ugh
[22:59] <knome> and see #xubuntu for the backstory
[23:08] <brainwash> oh, yet another Thinkpad user with suspend problems
[23:54] <Unit193> Close lid => black screen issue, suspend + close lid = a-ok.